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A Scientific Dissent from Wikipedianism, A Crockwork Orange |
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Moulton |
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Anthropologist from Mars
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Member No.: 3,670
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 9th May 2008, 2:19am) QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 9th May 2008, 3:39am) Speaking of colossal mistakes, is it your impression, Cla68, that the WikiClique on Intelligent Design erred in adjudging me a tendentious POV pusher (with no interest in writing an encyclopedia) for opposing their concerted efforts to introduce false and defamatory content into those several BLPs? I'm afraid I'm not fully familiar with what happened. Is there an ANI thread or ArbCom case that I could look at? Or a thread here where it was discussed? You can start at my old talk page, which will take you to the RfC. Be sure to read the RfC talk page, too. This version of my talk page will take you to the RfAr. See also the talk page archive for Picard's bio. See also this op-ed here, and this collection of bits and pieces, too.
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 9th May 2008, 6:40am) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 9th May 2008, 2:19am) QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 9th May 2008, 3:39am) Speaking of colossal mistakes, is it your impression, Cla68, that the WikiClique on Intelligent Design erred in adjudging me a tendentious POV pusher (with no interest in writing an encyclopedia) for opposing their concerted efforts to introduce false and defamatory content into those several BLPs? I'm afraid I'm not fully familiar with what happened. Is there an ANI thread or ArbCom case that I could look at? Or a thread here where it was discussed? You can start at my old talk page, which will take you to the RfC. Be sure to read the RfC talk page, too. This version of my talk page will take you to the RfAr. See also the talk page archive for Picard's bio. See also this op-ed here, and this collection of bits and pieces, too. I came back from a weekend away from the computer and found this furball on my user talk page. Those guys are trying to push back fairly hard. I'm going to look at the links you provided here and look harder at the ID-related articles and try to get fully oriented with the situation beyond what I know of a few behavioral issues with some of the editors in question.
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Moulton |
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Anthropologist from Mars
Group: Contributors
Posts: 10,222
Joined:
From: Greater Boston
Member No.: 3,670
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sun 11th May 2008, 3:57am) I came back from a weekend away from the computer and found this furball on my user talk page. Those guys are trying to push back fairly hard. I'm going to look at the links you provided here and look harder at the ID-related articles and try to get fully oriented with the situation beyond what I know of a few behavioral issues with some of the editors in question. Good grief. What I see there is a curious clique of anankastic characters exchanging vaguely worded anankastic conditionals with each other. There is a subtle but significant distinction between coercion and manipulation. Rather than slip into my customary mode of insufferable pedantry, I'll leave it as an exercise for the intelligent reader to tease out the nuances between coercion and manipulation.
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 11th May 2008, 12:24pm) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sun 11th May 2008, 3:57am) I came back from a weekend away from the computer and found this furball on my user talk page. Those guys are trying to push back fairly hard. I'm going to look at the links you provided here and look harder at the ID-related articles and try to get fully oriented with the situation beyond what I know of a few behavioral issues with some of the editors in question. Good grief. What I see there is a curious clique of anankastic characters exchanging vaguely worded anankastic conditionals with each other. There is a subtle but significant distinction between coercion and manipulation. Rather than slip into my customary mode of insufferable pedantry, I'll leave it as an exercise for the intelligent reader to tease out the nuances between coercion and manipulation. I think I'll leave that thread on my user page for a long while. It's very enlightening, isn't it?
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 11th May 2008, 1:22pm) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sun 11th May 2008, 8:56am) I think I'll leave that thread on my user page for a long while. It's very enlightening, isn't it? Very much so. However, in order for your adversaries to blank it against your will, they will have to go through the same kind of Spammish Inquisition RfC process with you as they did with me. Then Baegis will be able to request blanking of your personal talk page. I was going to say that it was unfortunate that this group decided to try to escalate things this way. But actually, I think it was fortunate, because now I'm obligated to look into the matter more deeply and either put up or shut up. DanT commented in that thread that the saber-rattling needs to stop. He's right. After I finish preparing this article for featured consideration I'm going to take some time and look at the past and present conduct of these editors more closely. If I find anything, and based on what I've seen so far there does appear to be more problematic behavior that needs to be addressed, then I'm going to ask them about it politely but directly. Hopefully they'll respond like adults.
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Sxeptomaniac |
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Senior Member
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sun 11th May 2008, 4:57pm) QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 11th May 2008, 1:22pm) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sun 11th May 2008, 8:56am) I think I'll leave that thread on my user page for a long while. It's very enlightening, isn't it? Very much so. However, in order for your adversaries to blank it against your will, they will have to go through the same kind of Spammish Inquisition RfC process with you as they did with me. Then Baegis will be able to request blanking of your personal talk page. I was going to say that it was unfortunate that this group decided to try to escalate things this way. But actually, I think it was fortunate, because now I'm obligated to look into the matter more deeply and either put up or shut up. DanT commented in that thread that the saber-rattling needs to stop. He's right. After I finish preparing this article for featured consideration I'm going to take some time and look at the past and present conduct of these editors more closely. If I find anything, and based on what I've seen so far there does appear to be more problematic behavior that needs to be addressed, then I'm going to ask them about it politely but directly. Hopefully they'll respond like adults. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how it goes, given my experiences with attempting to reason with Filll in particular.
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Derktar A Scientific Dissent from Wikipedianism Moulton Good grief. Kato The treatment of Rosalind Picard's biography b... Somey Disgusting!
It's a good example, though, ... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='96701' date='Sun 27th ... Somey Opt-out... Reciprocity... Opt-out... Reciprocity..... Derktar
Opt-out... Reciprocity... Opt-out... Reciprocity.... Moulton Here is some useful information...
The two-senten... Jacina The way I see it is that we have 2 Theories (proba... Proabivouac
The way I see it is that we have 2 Theories (prob... Somey Additionally, I see no reason to believe that eith... UserB
Additionally, I see no reason to believe that eit... Kato
The way I see it is that we have 2 Theories (prob... Jon Awbrey
The puzzle of abiogenesis remains an unsolved pro... Somey Ehh, hopefully we can agree to disagree on the who... Proabivouac
However, I do have qualms with people being targe... Somey Who is responsible for ensuring the fairness and ... Jacina Ah /shrug boils down to observation at the start, ... Moulton I don't know anyone who disputes evolution as ... that one guy CBM has some respect in my book. Krimpet gets a s... Moulton Reading that firestorm in the wake of Krimpet... Jon Awbrey
Reading that firestorm in the wake of Krimpet... Moulton It looks like most of the remaining debate has set... Somey Well, at least he admits to what he and his team a... dogbiscuit
Well, at least he admits to what he and his team ... Moulton Half the lies Filll is posting there aren't ev... Moulton The NYT piece covered the controversy, but didn... Sceptre Ack, Guettarda is not one of my favourite admins. ... that one guy The good old "You share viewpoint X with bann... Proabivouac
The good old "You share viewpoint X with ban... Giggy
It seems obvious that Krimpet was moved to take a... Moulton Kudos to Krimpet, aka Mrs. Moulton (or so we are t... dogbiscuit It is worth noting this vote stacking technique th... Moulton I don't know how Krimpet came onto the case, b... tarantino After being slapped down on AN/I, Raul654 has prot... The Joy
After being slapped down on AN/I, Raul654 has [ur... Jon Awbrey
After being slapped down on AN/I, Raul654 has [u... Moulton Moulton, has Ms. Picard called attention to this t... Kato The talk page is embarrassing to read. It took me ... The Joy Why are administrators letting the ID crowd get aw... Giggy
Why are administrators letting the ID crowd get a... The Joy
Why are administrators letting the ID crowd get ... Derktar
[quote name='Giggy' post='99330' date='Tue 6th Ma... Giggy
[quote name='Giggy' post='99330' date='Tue 6th Ma... The Joy
[quote name='Giggy' post='99330' date='Tue 6th M... Cla68 I just read the Picard article, and it appears to ... Derktar
I just read the Picard article, and it appears to... Somey I just read the Picard article, and it appears to ... Moulton I just read the Picard article, and it appears to ... Kato
But I am also mindful of the difficulty of mainta... Jon Awbrey
But I am also mindful of the difficulty of maint... dogbiscuit
But I am also mindful of the difficulty of maint... Moulton [quote name='Kato' post='99443' date='Tue 6th May ... Moulton But I am also mindful of the difficulty of maintai... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Kato' post='99443' date='Tue 6th May... Proabivouac
I've never seen such blind anger and pure hat... Moulton [quote name='The Joy' post='99317' date='Tue 6th M... Proabivouac
Yes, it sometimes does.
Wait, Filll is himself... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='99377' date='Tue 6th M... Random832
Wait, Filll is himself claiming these credential... Moulton While this thread began with an opening sneeze inv... dogbiscuit
[quote name='Moulton' post='99377' date='Tue 6th ... Somey Does anyone have any suggestions for a more meanin... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='100034' date='Thu 8th ... that one guy The whole situation can be summed up as one big me... Moulton From the talk page colloquy...
[b][url=http://en.... Sxeptomaniac [quote name='Moulton' post='99512' date='Tue 6th M... Moulton Heh. I found the whole "Moulton as puppetmas... Cla68 I wonder if OrangeMarlin, Jim62sch, and their frie... dogbiscuit
I wonder if OrangeMarlin, Jim62sch, and their fri... Cla68
I wonder if OrangeMarlin, Jim62sch, and their fr... Piperdown
I wonder if OrangeMarlin, Jim62sch, and their fri... Sxeptomaniac
[quote name='Sxeptomaniac' post='99560' date='Tue... Moulton I noticed that, rather than work with you regardin... dogbiscuit
I noticed that, rather than work with you regardi... Derktar
[quote name='Moulton' post='99582' date='Wed 7th ... dogbiscuit
Too many times have we seen this before. A new us... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='99582' date='Wed 7th M... Castle Rock God, he's a pathetic little man. PS Raul chec... Kato
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ta... tarantino
God, he's a pathetic little man. PS Raul che... Kato I haven't paid that much attention to this cli... Jon Awbrey I haven't followed this whole thread, so I don... Moulton Filll admits the petition can be interpreted seven... Kato
Filll admits the petition can be interpreted seve... Moulton Rework the "Tour's field of organic...... Kato
Rework the "Tour's field of organic...... Sxeptomaniac
By the way, I'm staggered by the naivety of t... Moulton Science is their religion, and they are the evange... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Sxeptomaniac' post='99667' date='Wed... Sxeptomaniac
Science is their religion, and they are the evang... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='99711' date='Wed 7th M... Kato If you read the WP article on "A Scientific D... Moulton Returning now to the latest postings in the colloq... Moulton [quote name='FCYTravis' post='95898' date='Thu 24t... Moulton Somewhere between last December and this week, som... Sxeptomaniac
Somewhere between last December and this week, [u... Kato The behavior of these people, who have now moved o... Moulton What's even more exasperating is that I'm ... Jon Awbrey
What's even more exasperating is that I'm... Moulton There's a box you can check if you want to kee... Moulton Is there some reason we can't all use open col... Moulton From Durova's blog...
Wikipedians often lose ... Jon Awbrey Wikipedians often lose perspective when a particul... Cla68 A couple of threads related to this discussion bro... Somey For the record, earlier in this thread I wasn... Cla68
For the record, earlier in this thread I wasn... Derktar Wait, is that the same George William Herbert who ... Castle Rock
Wait, is that the same George William Herbert who... Cla68
Wait, is that the same George William Herbert wh... Derktar
Wait, is that the same George William Herbert wh... Moulton I haven't decided for sure yet, but I think re... Moulton I read those comments on Cla68's talk page as ... The Joy Well, I was the one that asked if Rosalind Picard ... Aloft I came back from a weekend away from the computer ... Proabivouac
[quote name='Cla68' post='100619' date='Sun 11th ... Moulton Jim Schuler writes:
I don't understand why J... Derktar You'll also notice the typical tactics. Piling... The Joy
You'll also [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Jon Awbrey I used to hang out with folks who ran an artificia... Milton Roe
I used to hang out with folks who ran an artifici... Jon Awbrey Ha! I remember a time when some feminists at ... Milton Roe
Ha! I remember a time when some feminists at... Moulton Two other terms of art that come to mind are ... Viridae
[quote name='Cla68' post='100619' date='Sun 11th ... Proabivouac
[quote name='Cla68' post='100619' date='Sun 11th... KamrynMatika Isn't it bizarre how people spend so much time... Proabivouac
I have half a mind to post on AN, if only to conf... Peter Damian Very good, Dr Johnson.
Also, could someone clar... Viridae One thing at a time Cla :P Cla68
One thing at a time Cla :P
OM just made some ve... Moulton Doubleplus, it's a really big iceberg, so you... msharma By the way, whats up on Privatemusings tlkpage? wh... Moulton By the way, whats up on Privatemusings tlkpage? wh... tarantino
[quote name='msharma' post='100936' date='Mon 12t... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='100959' date='Mon 12th... Milton Roe
Yes, Angela and Tim were in a hotel and (for a va... Moulton As near as I can tell, Episdoe 15 of WP:NTWW was p... tarantino Today, Category:Signatories of "A Scientific ... Moulton Today, Category:Signatories of "A Scientific ... tarantino
Who knows what he means by UC? It could be Univ... Moulton The next thing that has to happen is to revise thi... Moulton I am not too enthusiastic about letting people att... Kato [quote name='Moulton' post='101131' date='Tue 13th... Moulton What a load of crap.
Well, if that's your hear... Proabivouac
Well I hope they're not as bizarre as Picard... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='101133' date='Tue 13th M... Moulton When people start justifying irrational beliefs as... dogbiscuit
While you could analyse Guy as to what motivates ... Moulton I guess that means no to your second point.
Bummer... Moulton Earlier today, on WP:AN#Moulton_.28un.29ban, MastC... Somey And then Jim Schuler, one of the WikiCliquers on I... Moulton Also, do intimidation tactics have even the slight... dogbiscuit Don't worry the truth will out now, as Guy tak... dogbiscuit Well, let's change that to Guy will never admi... Moulton What is JzG's evidence and reasoning that I am... dogbiscuit
What is JzG's evidence and reasoning that I a... guy
What is JzG's evidence and reasoning that I a... Moulton What is JzG's evidence and reasoning that I am... Random832
[quote name='guy' post='102289' date='Fri 16th Ma... Moulton Yeah, but you do have thousands of meatpuppets...
... Moulton Sam Korn is a former member of ArbCom who posted o... Lar
Sam Korn is a former member of ArbCom who [url=ht... Moulton An open letter to PlatanusOccidentalis...
Moulton Media Ethics: Into the pot, already boiling
[url=... dogbiscuit
Media Ethics: Into the pot, already boiling
[b][... Moulton [b]Media Ethics: Into the pot, already boiling
[b... dogbiscuit
Can you see how exasperating it was, dealing with... GlassBeadGame
Media Ethics: Into the pot, already boiling
[b][... Moulton I had pointed out, time and again, that they had n... Moulton Good grief.
Dave Souza on WP:AN...
Grief for wh... Moulton What I need help on — and I'm quite sin... Jon Awbrey
What I need help on — and I'm quite si... Kato
What I need help on — and I'm quite si... dogbiscuit
What I need help on — and I'm quite si... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='103146' date='Tue 20th... Moulton See also this diff of August 23, on the main artic... Kato
It felt like I was arguing with a petulant child.... Moulton It felt like I was arguing with a petulant child. ... thekohser I've asked myself similar questions about how ... Moulton Like Moulton should, I have to be a big enough boy... Jon Awbrey
But then they need decent endings, do they not?
... Cla68 Someone gives their take on part of the situation ... tarantino
Someone gives their take on part of the situation... Moulton I wish someone would explain to me how it is possi... Moulton Colloquy between Moulton and Filll on Moulton... dogbiscuit
Colloquy between Moulton and Filll on Moulton... Moulton Three times I asked for content mediation. I aske... dogbiscuit [quote name='Moulton' post='103375' date='Wed 21st... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='103375' date='Wed 21st... Moulton More from Moulton's talk page...
Watcha thin... dogbiscuit
More from Moulton's talk page...
Watcha thi... thekohser
Watcha think?
What do I think? I think he mis... Moulton All the NYT story of 2006 reveals is that Picard... Moulton Greg, you are more incorrigible than David Berlins... Moulton [url=http://aggieblue.blogspot.com/]Media Ethics: ... Kato
We've come a long way in a mere 10 months. We... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='103605' date='Thu 22nd... Moulton The collegial and congenial Dr. Filll analyzes Mou... Jon Awbrey
The collegial and congenial Dr. Filll analyzes Mo... Lar
I very much appreciate Filll's warm and welco... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Moulton' post='103763' date='Thu 22n... Kato
But typically you do have to edit within the rule... Lar
But I've effected more change there (and had... Jon Awbrey
Oh and Jon, given how hard it is to write on Velv... Milton Roe
Ya that behaviour is a problem. But that behaviou... dogbiscuit
Ya that behaviour is a problem. But that behavio... Lar
[quote name='Lar' post='103771' date='Thu 22nd Ma... Moulton In order to be a "good Wikipedian," Moul... Lar
OK, here is a scavenger hunt for you...
Generall... Somey Then and only then will you have enough background... Jon Awbrey
Then and only then will you have enough backgrou... Milton Roe
Then and only then will you have enough backgroun... Moulton From Moulton's Talk Page...
Moulton And that's why I would just want to promise to... Moulton I have added the following commentary to Moulton... Moulton The following section appears in the article, A Sc... Moulton Baegis takes exception to the above parody...
Mou... The Joy In order to be a "good Wikipedian," Moul... Moulton Baegis is anxious to put an end to the investigati... Moulton Lar, if I gave you a pointer, it would spoil the h... Moulton I have added a new section to Moulton's talk p... Sxeptomaniac OK, I must give Guettarda credit. He's manage... Moulton Have you asked him for his evidence and reasoning?... Sxeptomaniac
Have you asked him for his evidence and reasoning... Kato
[quote name='Moulton' post='104018' date='Fri 23r... Moulton So presumably, Guettarda is referring to Moulton a... thekohser
So presumably, Guettarda is referring to Moulton ... Moulton Credit where credit is due.
The puzzle I posed on... Moulton More colloquy from the WikiClique on Intelligent D... Moulton Baegis tried to close the WP:AN thread and archive... Moulton Guettarda clarifies the filth...
Kato
Guettarda clarifies the filth...
One wonders w... Moulton Here is the continuation of that commentary...
Moulton The WP:AN which Giggy started is now 9 days old an... Moulton Dave Souza has filed a lengthy and comprehensive p... Somey Well, there you go. Efforts to unfairly slant BLP ... Moulton Well, there you go. Efforts to unfairly slant BLP ... Cedric
Well, there you go. Efforts to unfairly slant BLP... Kato Wikipedia Review clearly acted as a divisive influ...
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