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SirFozzie: Teetering on the edge... |
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SirFozzie |
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The more I think about things on Wikipedia, the more I'm inclined to use the old Branch Rickey line when after a poor year for his team, one of his top players demanded a raise....
"We finished last with you.. we can finish last without you just as well".
Why?
Because quite frankly, I'm tired of pushing against the status quo in so many things.
Ireland related editwars? Yeah. THAT'S gonna go away real soon.
"Fringe Science"? Dear god, I hope people won't be surprised that my first, second, and third thoughts when reading all the AE/AN/ANI reports since the ArbCom case closed ten days ago was "God, I wish I could ban them all". Not Argumentum Ad Nauseum, more like Argumentum Ad Insanium. (I know, bad Latin, I don't care)
Flagged Revisions? Again, the status quo will never change. there's too much inertia to ever get it into motion without something extra-ordinary (IE, Jimbo decides to take the PR hit and God-Kings something through)
Followers of (insert political party here) thinks Wikipedia is far too biased in favor of (insert political party here). (and usually, the people on that side think it's just as biased the other way).
Even when ArbCom does things right, they screw things up. ScienceApologist's topic ban is being flouted blatantly, and instead of letting a clear boundary be set, they demand it be done as an "ArbCom clarification", which means at least some folks on ArbCom sit and discuss things endlessly..) This thing closed ten days ago. A "clarification" on the wording shouldn't take another 4+ days.. they have everything at hand! But instead, the fire rages out of control. Same as it ever was.
I was talking with a person recently whose name gets bandied around here quite frequently (although not as frequently as it used to). We got to talking about ArbCom Enforcement and the situation on Wikipedia. And they said as a conservative estimate, there would need to be at least THREE times as many administrators to keep things under control. Not three times as many admins at AE (although that would help), three times as many administrators, period! Not to mention 80% of the admin class aren't doing much of anything to manage conflicts on Wikipedia
Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.
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Lar |
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"His blandness goes to 11!"
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QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Wed 11th March 2009, 12:54pm) QUOTE(One @ Wed 11th March 2009, 2:45pm) We should demand CONSENSUS' retirement. It outlived its usefulness in 2002. I think it still has its place as an arbiter of small, local disputes (for both content and policy). But you're quite right that on broader issues is basically a lockdown on the status quo. My problem with these various forms of civil disobedience being proposed is that I'm not at all clear who we're supposed to be demanding things from. If nobody has the power to make a decision, then demanding a decision is sort of silly (it's like that scene in Arrested Development when everybody gets a "Speech!" chant going without having any idea who it is who's supposed to speak). For the most part, policy at Wikipedia is descriptive. If enough people civilly disobey current perceived policy, et voila, the project has a new policy. Many people have (rightly) pointed out that this makes policy making a game, a form of mob rule, whatever flash mob can form, can get what it wants, at least for a while (local consensus). Often that local consensus sticks, though. And as long as it's within the very broad outlines of Foundation policy, which IS prescriptive, that's all well and good as far as the rules of the game go. So it's not really demanding things. Except from ourselves. Just do it.
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Sarcasticidealist |
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Head exploded.
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QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 11th March 2009, 3:44pm) For the most part, policy at Wikipedia is descriptive. If enough people civilly disobey current perceived policy, et voila, the project has a new policy. Many people have (rightly) pointed out that this makes policy making a game, a form of mob rule, whatever flash mob can form, can get what it wants, at least for a while (local consensus). Often that local consensus sticks, though. And as long as it's within the very broad outlines of Foundation policy, which IS prescriptive, that's all well and good as far as the rules of the game go.
So it's not really demanding things. Except from ourselves. Well, here's what happens if we go all Nike on this: it gets brought up at ANI, the prevailing view there is that the protections were taking place outside of consensus, somebody decides to unprotect on the basis of ANI discussion, and we're no further ahead than we were when we started. We could wheel war over it, but then there's an arbitration case, I can't see Arb Comm prescribing smie-protection of BLPs absent a consensus to do so.
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One |
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Postmaster General
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QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Wed 11th March 2009, 6:46pm) QUOTE(Lar @ Wed 11th March 2009, 3:44pm) For the most part, policy at Wikipedia is descriptive. If enough people civilly disobey current perceived policy, et voila, the project has a new policy. Many people have (rightly) pointed out that this makes policy making a game, a form of mob rule, whatever flash mob can form, can get what it wants, at least for a while (local consensus). Often that local consensus sticks, though. And as long as it's within the very broad outlines of Foundation policy, which IS prescriptive, that's all well and good as far as the rules of the game go.
So it's not really demanding things. Except from ourselves. Well, here's what happens if we go all Nike on this: it gets brought up at ANI, the prevailing view there is that the protections were taking place outside of consensus, somebody decides to unprotect on the basis of ANI discussion, and we're no further ahead than we were when we started. We could wheel war over it, but then there's an arbitration case, I can't see Arb Comm prescribing smie-protection of BLPs absent a consensus to do so. Maybe not, but I can see them declining to desysop when admins uninvolved with each individual protection carefully and manually reprotect the articles callously unprotected by an ANI bot head (causing BLP violations, cited in the evidence). By their mere nonaction, we would reach the same policy result described by Lar. Consider that last year ArbCom passed BLPSE with absolutely no community support. ArbCom is, if anything, even more committed to BLP issues this year. Also recall the statistics from the semi-protection trial. Admins favored it three-to-one. If this majority works carefully and civilly, I am confident that a majority of arbitrators will side with the majority of the admins. I think we just need to build up escape velocity. This post has been edited by One:
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Posts in this topic
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