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> Ayn Rand and cults generally, In which I have a bet with Jimbo
Peter Damian
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See Jimbo's talk page, and the [[Ayn Rand]] article which I have rewritten. The bet is how long it will stay in its rewritten state. I love the remark that 'Aristotle was sorely over-rated'.


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'Aristotle was sorely overrated'. Ha! Wikipediot. Obscure greek Homer 42k, famous american Homer 65k. I would have bought this argument when Wikipedia first began. But as I pointed out above, the project is now mature, and we still find it difficult to attract editors who can write accessible material on more encylopedic subjects. The reason is abundantly clear: the place is infested with cranks, advocates of strange fringe theories, mystics, lunatics of all kinds. No sane intelligent person would go near the place with a bargepole. In any case, I have now re-written the introduction to Ayn Rand that makes it less obviously written by Rand fanatics. Let's see what happens from there on. If the introduction stands relatively unchanged, I lose my bet. If it is torn to shreds and returned to the unreadable ungrammatical state as before, I win, bigtime. Peter Damian (talk) 13:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...es_in_Wikipedia


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dtobias
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I remember back when I had just read Atlas Shrugged and was in a burst of enthusiasm about it, being frustrated at the extreme scarcity of mentions of Rand in the references I consulted in the school and public libraries. For an author whose books sold millions of copies, had spawned a large movement, and were (to my teenage mind) irrefutably true, it was astounding that almost nobody who wrote for the various bound volumes on philosophy and literary criticism in the libraries (the main sources I had to work with in that primitive era when I couldn't just google or wikipedia something) scarcely mentioned Rand at all, and on the rare occasions they did, it was with brief dismissive sneers. Obviously the altruist/collectivists had a pretty powerful conspiracy going.
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Somey
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QUOTE(dtobias @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 7:04pm) *
I remember back when I had just read Atlas Shrugged and was in a burst of enthusiasm about it, being frustrated at the extreme scarcity of mentions of Rand in the references I consulted in the school and public libraries. For an author whose books sold millions of copies, had spawned a large movement, and were (to my teenage mind) irrefutably true, it was astounding that almost nobody who wrote for the various bound volumes on philosophy and literary criticism in the libraries (the main sources I had to work with in that primitive era when I couldn't just google or wikipedia something) scarcely mentioned Rand at all, and on the rare occasions they did, it was with brief dismissive sneers. Obviously the altruist/collectivists had a pretty powerful conspiracy going.

When I was in college, back in the early 80's, I dated a girl who was something of an Ayn Rand cultist. Which is to say, every once in a while she would say something like, "Ayn Rand wrote that..." or "in Objectivist philosophy..." followed by some nonsensical statement or other. Since I didn't think it would be "gentlemanly" to break up with her over a mere ideological disagreement, I mostly played along, pretending to respect whatever views she was espousing, no matter how dumb they seemed. Occasionally I would ask, "So... do you think I should read some of this Ayn Rand stuff? And if so, what should I read first?" And the answer was always, "naaah, you wouldn't like it."

For a while, I wondered if this was some sort of reverse-psychology recruitment strategy, i.e., tell the guy "it's not for you" as a means of getting him more interested. Luckily for me at the time, she didn't realize that I'm one of those rare persons for whom reverse psychology almost never works. If someone (and not necessarily a female I'm dating at the time, though that certainly helped in this case) tells me not to bother with something, I generally don't. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

So it wasn't until about 10 years later that I first became exposed to Ayn Rand in print, at a rented beach house where the owner had left several books for people to read if they got bored (a common practice, apparently). I got through about 80 pages of "The Fountainhead," slowly realizing the whole time that the girl had been right all along. Later I read some excerpts from "Atlas Shrugged" too, but at that point I was already a committed "anti-Randian."

I'm not sure any of this is germane, but I just wanted to get it off my chest.
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QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 23rd March 2009, 3:57am) *

Occasionally I would ask, "So... do you think I should read some of this Ayn Rand stuff? And if so, what should I read first?" And the answer was always, "naaah, you wouldn't like it."

Well, a true objectivist wouldn't expect you to read anything for her sake, and she certainly wouldn't read anything for yours. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)
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Posts in this topic
Peter Damian   Ayn Rand and cults generally  
Peter Damian   Wow, already "She has attracted an almost fan...  
GlassBeadGame   See Jimbo's talk page, and the [[Ayn Rand]] a...  
Peter Damian   Er, thankyou Moulton. The other argument that i...  
Milton Roe   RE: Ayn Rand and cults generally  
Moulton   A true educator does not add knowledge. A true ed...  
Peter Damian   I win the bet. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.ph...  
maggot3   I still find it absolutely unbelievable that peopl...  
Peter Damian   I still find it absolutely unbelievable that peop...  
Lar   Well, awful or not, Jimmy has come out for Rand ...  
Peter Damian   Well, awful or not, Jimmy has come out for Rand...  
Lar   'Cruising for a block' is an obvious thre...  
Peter Damian   'Cruising for a block' is an obvious thr...  
EricBarbour   No, it's an observation of your behaviour. I ...  
Cla68   Yes, Larry, you don't threaten. Or do you? ...  
tarantino   If you were there to actually write an encycloped...  
Lar   [quote name='Lar' post='150628' date='Sat 10th Ja...  
Peter Damian   All you care about is the crappy civility thing...  
Milton Roe   [quote name='Lar' post='150628' date='Sat 10th Ja...  
Kelly Martin   Wikipedia is a giant changable vulgar online Baede...  
zvook   We get it. You're not there to write an ency...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='150619' date='Sa...  
Milton Roe   Lar, I was puzzled by your comments about LaRouch...  
Proabivouac   Lar, I was puzzled by your comments about LaRouch...  
wikiwhistle   LOL. :D  
Alison   Lar, I was puzzled by your comments about LaRouch...  
Milton Roe   Lar went head-to-head with Fr. Rob Dye from Tulsa...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Kant said that if doing something makes you feel ...  
Peter Damian   [quote name='Milton Roe' post='150667' date='Sun ...  
Milton Roe   The Randian tirades against altruism are just ado...  
Lar   Paranoid psychos like Stalin or Saddam don't ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='150678' da...  
Lar   [quote name='Lar' post='150710' date='Sun 11th Ja...  
Milton Roe   Will and I have our differences, and if he pushes...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='Lar' post='150621' date='Sat 10th Ja...  
Kurt M. Weber   I still find it absolutely unbelievable that peop...  
cyofee   I still find it absolutely unbelievable that peo...  
Anonymous editor   [quote name='Kurt M. Weber' post='150829' date='M...  
sarcasticidealist   For the record, the correct spelling is lead, not ...  
Lar   For the record, the correct spelling is lead, not...  
Milton Roe   [quote name='maggot3' post='150618' date='Sat 10t...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   Trolling again, are we, Kurt? This feels famili...  
Moulton   Los Obliviados y Los Olvidados [quote name='maggo...  
dtobias   In one week, I'll be 64 years old. Will any...  
Moulton   [quote name='Moulton' post='150902' date='Tue 13th...  
Milton Roe   About twenty years ago, I discovered that I have ...  
Bottled_Spider   *Percy Bysshe Shelley, 19th century poet who knew ...  
Milton Roe   *Percy Bysshe Shelley, 19th century poet who knew...  
tarantino   Great post, Milton. WR has missed you. I might ad...  
Milton Roe   Great post, Milton. WR has missed you. Why, tha...  
EricBarbour   [quote name='tarantino' post='150643' date='Sat 1...  
wikiwhistle   This randy-ism seems to be in essence LaVeyan Sata...  
Milton Roe   This Randism's not necessarily my particular ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   This randy-ism seems to be in essence LaVeyan Sat...  
Milton Roe   I'm scratching my head trying to envision so...  
Moulton   Title: Mister Randman Artist: Peter Damian ...  
wikiwhistle   "Give him a heart so he's not a Nazi And ...  
Peter Damian   And here on my talk page this afternoon I find thi...  
dtobias   Whatever may be good or bad about the respective p...  
Peter Damian   And back to the point of this thread. Adherents o...  
Lar   And back to the point of this thread. Adherents ...  
Peter Damian   Extended personal attacks? What are you talking a...  
dtobias   Extended personal attacks? What are you talking ...  
Friday   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='150720' date='Su...  
Somey   Lar's description sounded pretty accurate to m...  
Peter Damian   It may be that Mr. Damian is opposed to the entir...  
Sxeptomaniac   [quote name='Friday' post='150960' date='Tue 13th...  
Peter Damian   There is some progress in that SlimV has taken it ...  
Bottled_Spider   The main question to be deliberated, which has be...  
Peter Damian   Update. I am planning a blog post for this one, h...  
sarcasticidealist   These are the members of Wikipedia's senior ad...  
sarcasticidealist   And now the mediation case has been rejected and a...  
Herschelkrustofsky   It's interesting to watch the new, anti-establ...  
Peter Damian   I discuss this in my philosophy blog here http://...  
Peter Damian   A minor stir in the blogosphere following my email...  
dtobias   From one of the blog postings referenced in one of...  
Moulton   For those who give a fuck about such idiotic philo...  
Peter Damian   For those who give a fuck about such idiotic phil...  
dtobias   Perl programmers do that too... variables in tha...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Perl programmers do that too... variables in th...  
gadfly   arbcom may be getting ready to act. The randians s...  
EricBarbour   arbcom may be getting ready to act. Linky?  
gadfly   [quote name='gadfly' post='155700' date='Tue 10th...  
EricBarbour   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...n_Ra...  
Jon Awbrey   Since when do people get to decide what other p...  
Milton Roe   [quote name='dtobias' post='152737' date='Sat 24t...  
EricBarbour   I've got an even more concise way of dealing w...  
Moulton   Ah, yes. Weemba (Matthew P. Wiener). He and I us...  
Peter Damian   This http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.....  
Jon Awbrey   This [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti...  
Bottled_Spider   This [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?titl...  
Peter Damian   If I can add some well-meant criticism of the Wik...  
Herschelkrustofsky   I've heard that Connelley is legendary but th...  
Bottled_Spider   If I can add some well-meant criticism of the Wiki...  
EricBarbour   As for why he failed to get a nomination - well, ...  
Herschelkrustofsky   Were you aware of this? It seems to be in the gest...  
Peter Damian   Were you aware of this? It seems to be in the ges...  
Kato   The article is dreadful. In the lead, it asserts...  
Peter Damian   The article is dreadful. In the lead, it assert...  
Herschelkrustofsky   [edit] And the dreadfully written "She promo...  
Peter Damian   Arbcom decision just out. http://en.wikipedia.org...  
snowded   Arbcom decision just out. Well at least they mad...  
Peter Damian   On the Ayn Rand talk page right now: (Part of a...  
Jon Awbrey   On the Ayn Rand talk page right now: (Part of a...  
GlassBeadGame   On the Ayn Rand talk page right now: (Part of ...  
Jon Awbrey   One of the things I don't understand is why al...  
Peter Damian   One of the things I don't understand is why a...  
Jon Awbrey   One of the things I don't understand is why ...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='162988' date='Su...  
Jon Awbrey   The difference of course is that Descartes, Hume,...  
GlassBeadGame   The difference of course is that Descartes, Hume...  
Jon Awbrey   [quote name='Jon Awbrey' post='162994' date='Sun ...  
Jon Awbrey   I remember back when I had just read [i]Atlas Shr...  
Peter Damian   The barbarian at the gate http://en.wikipedia.org/...  


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