|
The Herschelkrustofsky ban revisited, SV and her posse at work |
|
|
Herschelkrustofsky |
|
Member
Group: Members
Posts: 5,199
Joined:
From: Kalifornia
Member No.: 130
|
I am posting this in response to comments made by Hell Freezes Over in some recent threads. 9 days ago, this page at Wikipedia was deleted. Don't ask me why. It provided a useful chronology of how I was driven off the project. It included a description of my role in the Nobs01 and others arbcom case. I was the only respondent who was not named in the proposed findings of fact. If I had kept my mouth shut, nothing would have happened to me. Because I insisted on speaking out, asserting that the penalties doled out by the arbcom were inequitable (Cberlet was "cautioned," others who had committed comparable offenses were blocked or placed on probation,) I was place on indefinite probation. Fred Bauder justified this decision in the following way: QUOTE 15) In view of the dissatisfaction expressed by Herschelkrustofsky with the decisions reached in this case, and the apparent lack of insight into any role his own behavior played in the creation and aggravation of the problems which gave rise to this case, he is placed indefinitely on Wikipedia:Probation. Since this was a little too obvious, Raul654 covered the tracks with this edit.This action set the stage for what followed. Slim and Will Beback began wikistalking me to various articles, accusing me of adding ideas which they alleged were similar to ideas advocated at one time or another by LaRouche (see Searching for LaRouche under the bed.) They were assisted by 172Â (T-C-L-K-R-D)
in setting a trap for me (into which I foolishly walked) at Synarchism (T-H-L-K-D). The article did not mention LaRouche, until 172 added a bunch of defamatory crap about LaRouche, which I should have ignored, because the article has probably been read by about six people. But, I removed it, and was charged with "editing a LaRouche-related article," in violation of probation. I protested that it was not a LaRouche-related article, and Slim's response was [paraphrase]"It is now."[/paraphrase] Now, you can still read this page, some great stuff which I excerpted from the ANI board. The admin who deleted my user page missed it. Hurry! Also, as a sort of postscript, this one, extracted from User talk:SlimVirgin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies
Milton Roe |
|
Known alias of J. Random Troll
Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,209
Joined:
Member No.: 5,156
|
QUOTE(Random832 @ Mon 13th April 2009, 5:36pm) QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Tue 14th April 2009, 12:31am) Cberlet didn't control the articles in question. Slim and Will Beback did. Berlet served at their pleasure. Says you. It's true that Berlet didn't have the block-button and the others did. However, due to his subject matter, he was given free reign. I believe it has been mentioned that the fastest way to climb the WP social ladder is much like how to climb it in in the modern media: play on Jewish paranoia, and attack in all directions outward from the NeoCon/pro-Israeli/vaguely squishy liberal center. Just use the terms neo-fascist, racist, white supremicist, and new-antisemitism a lot. Most of the time they can be interchangable. That's what Berlet did for a living before he came to WP anyway, and it's still what he's doing after he's gone. It's also more or less what Jayjg does for a living, apparently, and Slim has edited that way for years (without using the terms, there's still not a playing card worth of difference between SlimVirgin's wiki-politics and Berlet or Jayjg's). As to how Will Beback got any of this pineapple up his rear, I have no idea. There must be a story, there, but I don't know it.
|
|
|
|
Cla68 |
|
Postmaster
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,763
Joined:
Member No.: 5,761
|
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 14th April 2009, 12:58am) Wow: QUOTE Revert: read the quote - it is an accurate summary of a vicious statement by a homophobic bigot SV, you asked me for an edit by CBerlet that is as bad as HK's. I think this edit summary is much worse. It's a clear violation of BLP. I checked CBerlet's talk page for the days following that edit summary and saw nary a warning or block from you or anyone else who I assume were closely watching that article to make sure no pro-LaRouche editors touched it. To be fair, SV's name is missing from what I believe was the last pro-LaRouche editor witchhunt, but notice in that thread that Jayjg performed the checkuser, and JzG, Tom Harrison, and John Nevard were all active in pushing for action, in addition to Will Beback. QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 1:16am) I suppose I wonder how much LaRouche you've read, Somey. You don't have to read much to find some very depressing material about Jews (as well as about gays and women), notwithstanding that he denies any antisemitism himself. And to dismiss him as a crackpot, as though he's a harmless one, is wrong-headed. The LaRouche movement used to be very good at cultivating young reporters in an effort to get its propaganda spread. An enormous number of prominent political conspiracy theories have been started or in some way spread by the LaRouche movement's ability to influence naive journalists. Over time, the origins of the rumours get lost, and they take on a life of their own. The LaRouchies then use those stories to spread the memes even further, trumpeting them as evidence of something they've been claiming for a long time, when in fact they made them up, and using their supposedly astonishing predictive power to bolster their credibility with the next generation of befuddled reporters.
I wonder how it would be possible to be a true expert on LaRouche, yet remain impartial.
I guess you've confirmed that you have a personal stake in seeing that the content about LaRouche in Wikipedia is negative in nature. Do you see any problem with that? This post has been edited by Cla68:
|
|
|
|
Hell Freezes Over |
|
Senior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 287
Joined:
Member No.: 9,433
|
QUOTE(Cla68 @ Tue 14th April 2009, 3:44am) QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 14th April 2009, 12:58am) Wow: QUOTE Revert: read the quote - it is an accurate summary of a vicious statement by a homophobic bigot SV, you asked me for an edit by CBerlet that is as bad as HK's. I think this edit summary is much worse. It's a clear violation of BLP. I checked CBerlet's talk page for the days following that edit summary and saw nary a warning or block from you or anyone else who I assume were closely watching that article to make sure no pro-LaRouche editors touched it. I haven't watched the LaRouche articles for a long time. Yes, that edit summary was a BLP violation, though nowhere near as bad as creating WP articles in order to attack people, as Herschel did. But you might want to look at the LaRouche quote that Berlet was responding to. LaRouche is here talking about the need to take action against people with AIDS -- as I recall, he wanted to quarantine them: "We have another purpose in fighting AIDS, for our fighting AIDS — for our inducing people to do what they should have done anyway without our speaking a word. Government agencies should have done this. There should be no issue! But government agencies didn't! That's the issue. Why didn't they? Because of a cultural paradigm shift. They did not want, on the one hand, to estrange the votes of a bunch of faggots and cocaine sniffers, the organized gay lobby, as it's called in the United States. (I don't know why they're "gay", they're the most miserable creatures I ever saw! The so-called gay lobby, 8% of the population, the adult electorate; the drug users. There are 20 million cocaine sniffers in the United States, at least. Of course it does affect their mind; it affects the way they vote! ... "Where did this nonsense come from? Oh, we don't want to offend the gays! Gays are sensitive to their civil rights; this will lead to discrimination against gays! "They’re already beating up gays with baseball bats around the country! Children are going to playgrounds, they go in with baseball bats, and they find one of these gays there, pederasts, trying to recruit children, and they take their baseball bats and they beat them up pretty bad. They’ll kill one sooner or later. In Chicago, they’re beating up gays that are hanging around certain schools, pederasts; children go out with baseball bats and beat them up—which is perfectly moral; they have the civil right to do that! It’s a matter of children’s civil rights!" -- Lyndon LaRouche, Executive Intelligence Review, January 10, 1986. http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/context_quotes.html#gays
|
|
|
|
the fieryangel |
|
the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,990
Joined:
From: It's all in your mind anyway...
Member No.: 577
|
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 7:12pm) Yes, that edit summary was a BLP violation, though nowhere near as bad as creating WP articles in order to attack people, as Herschel did. But you might want to look at the LaRouche quote that Berlet was responding to. LaRouche is here talking about the need to take action against people with AIDS -- as I recall, he wanted to quarantine them: -- Lyndon LaRouche, Executive Intelligence Review, January 10, 1986. http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/context_quotes.html#gaysLeaving aside the moral aspects of making such a statement, let's talk about inclusion of this kind of material in an encyclopedia: Would Britannica include that sort of thing? Not in the way that WP does, I should think. It all goes back to the core policy of NPOV: is adding this information "neutral"? I really can't see how it could be. You know, if you people would just enforce your policies as they are written in a fair and level manner, then 99% of this type of stuff wouldn't happen in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Hell Freezes Over |
|
Senior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 287
Joined:
Member No.: 9,433
|
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:12pm) QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 7:12pm) Yes, that edit summary was a BLP violation, though nowhere near as bad as creating WP articles in order to attack people, as Herschel did. But you might want to look at the LaRouche quote that Berlet was responding to. LaRouche is here talking about the need to take action against people with AIDS -- as I recall, he wanted to quarantine them: -- Lyndon LaRouche, Executive Intelligence Review, January 10, 1986. http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/context_quotes.html#gaysLeaving aside the moral aspects of making such a statement, let's talk about inclusion of this kind of material in an encyclopedia: Would Britannica include that sort of thing? Not in the way that WP does, I should think. It all goes back to the core policy of NPOV: is adding this information "neutral"? I really can't see how it could be. By neutral, all we mean is that we publish the views of all reliable published sources. The overwhelming majority of sources all over the western world, when writing about LaRouche, talk about allegations of cultism, homophobia, antisemitism, misogyny, his shift from extreme left to extreme right, his attempts to become president, his bizarre attacks on Britain, including that the Beatles were some kind of front for British intelligence, and that the Queen is the head of an international drug cartel. Then there are the claims by researchers who've investigated him, or former members, of their names being blackened, or their homes or pets being attacked. Britannica doesn't have detailed articles on anything the way we do on WP, so comparing them doesn't help us to work out what's appropriate. If you're going to have a detailed article, it's impossible to leave this stuff out, because there's so much of it. Also, why would we *want* to leave it out? He did say those things, and he presumably stands by all or most of them. This post has been edited by Hell Freezes Over:
|
|
|
|
Heat |
|
Tenured
Group: Regulars
Posts: 726
Joined:
Member No.: 1,066
|
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:27pm) QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:12pm) QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 7:12pm) Yes, that edit summary was a BLP violation, though nowhere near as bad as creating WP articles in order to attack people, as Herschel did. But you might want to look at the LaRouche quote that Berlet was responding to. LaRouche is here talking about the need to take action against people with AIDS -- as I recall, he wanted to quarantine them: -- Lyndon LaRouche, Executive Intelligence Review, January 10, 1986. http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/context_quotes.html#gaysLeaving aside the moral aspects of making such a statement, let's talk about inclusion of this kind of material in an encyclopedia: Would Britannica include that sort of thing? Not in the way that WP does, I should think. It all goes back to the core policy of NPOV: is adding this information "neutral"? I really can't see how it could be. By neutral, all we mean is that we publish the views of all reliable published sources. The overwhelming majority of sources all over the western world, when writing about LaRouche, talk about allegations of cultism, homophobia, antisemitism, misogyny, his shift from extreme left to extreme right, his attempts to become president, his bizarre attacks on Britain, including that the Beetles were some kind of front for British intelligence, and that the Queen is the head of an international drug cartel. Then there are the claims by researchers who've investigated him, or former members, of their names being blackened, or their homes or pets being attacked. Britannica doesn't have detailed articles on anything the way we do on WP, so comparing them doesn't help us to work out what's appropriate. If you're going to have a detailed article, it's impossible to leave this stuff out, because there's so much of it. Also, why would we *want* to leave it out? He did say those things, and he presumably stands by all or most of them. The question is would Britannica allow someone who is involved in the story to write their article? No. They might use him as a source but they wouldn't ask him to contribute. Berlet can be used as a source for Larouche articles but he shouldn't be editing them. You haven't addressed this point despite the fact that it's been brought up several times but, again, cherry picking which questions you answer is part of how you operate. And I think you mean the Beatles, the rock band not the Beetles, the insect. It's a take off of "beat". This post has been edited by Heat:
|
|
|
|
the fieryangel |
|
the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,990
Joined:
From: It's all in your mind anyway...
Member No.: 577
|
QUOTE(Heat @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:32pm) QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:27pm) QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:12pm) QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 7:12pm) Yes, that edit summary was a BLP violation, though nowhere near as bad as creating WP articles in order to attack people, as Herschel did. But you might want to look at the LaRouche quote that Berlet was responding to. LaRouche is here talking about the need to take action against people with AIDS -- as I recall, he wanted to quarantine them: -- Lyndon LaRouche, Executive Intelligence Review, January 10, 1986. http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/context_quotes.html#gaysLeaving aside the moral aspects of making such a statement, let's talk about inclusion of this kind of material in an encyclopedia: Would Britannica include that sort of thing? Not in the way that WP does, I should think. It all goes back to the core policy of NPOV: is adding this information "neutral"? I really can't see how it could be. By neutral, all we mean is that we publish the views of all reliable published sources. The overwhelming majority of sources all over the western world, when writing about LaRouche, talk about allegations of cultism, homophobia, antisemitism, misogyny, his shift from extreme left to extreme right, his attempts to become president, his bizarre attacks on Britain, including that the Beetles were some kind of front for British intelligence, and that the Queen is the head of an international drug cartel. Then there are the claims by researchers who've investigated him, or former members, of their names being blackened, or their homes or pets being attacked. Britannica doesn't have detailed articles on anything the way we do on WP, so comparing them doesn't help us to work out what's appropriate. If you're going to have a detailed article, it's impossible to leave this stuff out, because there's so much of it. Also, why would we *want* to leave it out? He did say those things, and he presumably stands by all or most of them. The question is would Britannica allow someone who is involved in the story to write their article? No. They might use him as a source but they wouldn't ask him to contribute. Berlet can be used as a source for Larouche articles but he shouldn't be editing them. You haven't addressed this point despite the fact that it's been brought up several times but, again, cherry picking which questions you answer is part of how you operate. And I think you mean the Beatles, the rock band not the Beetles, the insect. It's a take off of "beat". "NPOV" is supposed to include all positions, both pro and con, with adjustments made for "weight". This means effectively that you have to make room for all positions in any given article. If somebody finds a source which says "LaRouche is the best thing since sliced bread" and it fits the RS criteria, you have to give that fact room in the article. Verifiability, not facts, wasn't that it? For this process to work, you have to have procedure which does not allow material to be removed because somebody doesn't like it. It should be that something which is sourced should be not removable and removing that should be the bannable offense, not the type of political jerry mongering that typically happens now. If you had to include a source which was not your own work and the information sourced could not be removed, then you might have a chance of coming up with "balanced" articles. There are all types of people in the World. I just wonder if it is the place of an encyclopedia to be making judgments about who is "homophobic" and who is "racist" etc. It seems to me that if you start allowing moral judgments like that, we get to the horrors of things like the old version of the Crystal Gail Mangum article. We don't want to go there again, do we?
|
|
|
|
Sarcasticidealist |
|
Head exploded.
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,662
Joined:
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Member No.: 4,536
|
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 5:47pm) "NPOV" is supposed to include all positions, both pro and con, with adjustments made for "weight". This means effectively that you have to make room for all positions in any given article. If somebody finds a source which says "LaRouche is the best thing since sliced bread" and it fits the RS criteria, you have to give that fact room in the article. Verifiability, not facts, wasn't that it? That's not true; the requirement to adjust for weight is perfectly consistent with some reliably sourced opinions not being sufficiently widely held/covered to merit any mention at all in an article. (Not trying to cast myself in the role of defender of Wikipedia's content policies, but you were misrepresenting that one.)
|
|
|
|
the fieryangel |
|
the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,990
Joined:
From: It's all in your mind anyway...
Member No.: 577
|
QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Tue 14th April 2009, 8:56pm) QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 5:47pm) "NPOV" is supposed to include all positions, both pro and con, with adjustments made for "weight". This means effectively that you have to make room for all positions in any given article. If somebody finds a source which says "LaRouche is the best thing since sliced bread" and it fits the RS criteria, you have to give that fact room in the article. Verifiability, not facts, wasn't that it? That's not true; the requirement to adjust for weight is perfectly consistent with some reliably sourced opinions not being sufficiently widely held/covered to merit any mention at all in an article. (Not trying to cast myself in the role of defender of Wikipedia's content policies, but you were misrepresenting that one.) Here are the first two paragraphs of the NPOV policy as it currently stands : QUOTE The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting verifiable perspectives on a topic as evidenced by reliable sources. The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly. None of the views should be given undue weight or asserted as being judged as "the truth", in order that the various significant published viewpoints are made accessible to the reader, not just the most popular one. It should also not be asserted that the most popular view, or some sort of intermediate view among the different views, is the correct one to the extent that other views are mentioned only pejoratively. Readers should be allowed to form their own opinions. Policy shortcut: WP:YESPOV
The neutral point of view is neither sympathetic nor in opposition to its subject: it neither endorses nor discourages viewpoints. As the name suggests, the neutral point of view is a point of view, not the absence or elimination of viewpoints. The elimination of article content cannot be justified under this policy on the grounds that it is "POV". Article content should clearly describe, represent, and characterize disputes within topics, but without endorsement of any particular point of view. Articles should provide background on who believes what and why, and which view is more popular; detailed articles might also contain evaluations of each viewpoint, but must studiously refrain from taking sides. So, I believe that my description fits into the spirit of these two paragraphs. How this is applied in practice is another matter indeed...
|
|
|
|
Sarcasticidealist |
|
Head exploded.
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,662
Joined:
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Member No.: 4,536
|
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 6:02pm) So, I believe that my description fits into the spirit of these two paragraphs. How this is applied in practice is another matter indeed... From the "Undue weight" portion of that page: QUOTE Wikipedia should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention overall as a majority view. Views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute. The classic example is whether to include in the article about Elizabeth II the (documented in reliable sources) view that she's actually an extra-dimensional lizard person. Consensus (in the real sense of the word) is no.
|
|
|
|
the fieryangel |
|
the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
Group: Regulars
Posts: 2,990
Joined:
From: It's all in your mind anyway...
Member No.: 577
|
QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Tue 14th April 2009, 9:11pm) QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Tue 14th April 2009, 6:02pm) So, I believe that my description fits into the spirit of these two paragraphs. How this is applied in practice is another matter indeed... From the "Undue weight" portion of that page: QUOTE Wikipedia should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention overall as a majority view. Views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute. The classic example is whether to include in the article about Elizabeth II the (documented in reliable sources) view that she's actually an extra-dimensional lizard person. Consensus (in the real sense of the word) is no. except in the article about the "Theory that Queen Elizabeth II is an extra-dimensional lizard person" article, in which that information would have to be presented, as well as the contradictory viewpoint. I really fail to see how LaRouche publications and sources could be kept out of any article about LaRouche and his movement, if you follow this policy. QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Tue 14th April 2009, 9:12pm) If that's what reliable sources are saying, we do include it. We can't say that, according to NPOV, we must include all reliable sources, but then add, "except for the ones that make what we feel are inappropriate judgments."
Then why do these problems occur? They do, and according to the policies themselves and the underlying idea of objectivism, they shouldn't. Are you saying that it is an objective reality that, for example, women should be excluded from the List of major opera composers (or more correctly, confined to a ghetto) because nobody had any sources which were current and included information about women? And if you answer that this is supposedly an evolving process, just try to change one thing on that list and see what happens.
|
|
|
|
Posts in this topic
Herschelkrustofsky The Herschelkrustofsky ban revisited Jon Awbrey
I am posting this in response to comments made by... CharlotteWebb
9 days ago, this page at Wikipedia was deleted. D... Heat
Of course he missed it. He wasn't born yet.
... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='167623' da... Hell Freezes Over
This action set the stage for what followed. Sli... Kato
Your opening a thread about your WP editing puts ... Hell Freezes Over
Shouldn't edits be judged on their merits?
... Kato
Very much so. What do you think about this articl... Hell Freezes Over
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167668' dat... Kato
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167668' da... Hell Freezes Over
I suppose other than putting the non-notable and... Herschelkrustofsky
Do you believe Lyndon LaRouche is a reliable sour... Hell Freezes Over
1. LaRouche's publications are reliable sour... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='167722' da... Hell Freezes Over
I believe his views on any topic should be subjec... Somey Do you believe his own views ought to be added to ... Obesity
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167728' dat... CharlotteWebb
Here is the photo in question, which shows LaRouc... Mackan
[quote name='Mackan' post='167725' date='Sun 12th... Somey Your opening a thread about your WP editing puts m... Hell Freezes Over
Your opening a thread about your WP editing puts ... Kato
The point of bringing it up, as you asked, is tha... Jon Awbrey
And so I am giving just one example of why the ba... Jon Awbrey
And so I am giving just one example of why the b... Somey If I'm wrong -- if this is just my "half-... Hell Freezes Over
There's a whole butt-load of web pages on tha... Somey I'm giving just *one* example. How much of thi... CharlotteWebb
Despite being asked many times by several editors... Jon Awbrey
The point of bringing it up, as you asked, is th... Kato
In any event, this Larouche stuff is hardly a maj... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Somey' post='167686' date='Sun 12th ... Hell Freezes Over
Like the last HK sockpuppet blocked by SlimVirgin... Kato
Kato, you need to stop posting here without check... Mackan I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he s... dtobias
Who escalates several reverts on a talk page by i... Jon Awbrey
I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he ... The Adversary
I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he ... Herschelkrustofsky
I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he ... Hell Freezes Over
As I have said before, I will respond to any evid... dtobias
*Third case (2005) involving HK here http://en.wi... Cla68
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167835' dat... Hell Freezes Over
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167835' da... dtobias
You don't even try to disguise the hypocrisy.... Jon Awbrey
You don't even try to disguise the hypocrisy... dtobias
Psychological projection, anyone?
Gadzooks... The Joy
[quote name='dtobias' post='167865' date='Sun 12... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167863' da... EricBarbour
You don't even try to disguise the hypocrisy.... Cla68
Can you show me an edit from Cberlet that was alm... Shalom RANDOM CRAP
RANDOM CRAP
RANDOM CRAP
RANDOM CRAP
RA... Somey You all claim to care about BLP. Chip Berlet and t... Kato
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167863' dat... It's the blimp, Frank
The biography of Chip Berlet should be deleted. H... Hell Freezes Over
You all claim to care about BLP. Chip Berlet and ... Kato
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the prev... Herschelkrustofsky
It's very sad that he was given no support he... Kato Chip Berlet was someone who wrote for at least one... Heat
Chip Berlet was someone who wrote for at least on... Herschelkrustofsky
I think Berlet is a Reliable Source on Larouche. ... Kato
I think Berlet is a Reliable Source on Larouche.... Hell Freezes Over
I think Berlet is a Reliable Source on Larouche.... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='168053' da... Hell Freezes Over
Chip Berlet was someone who wrote for at least on... Heat
[quote name='Kato' post='168048' date='Mon 13th A... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='Kato' post='168048' date='Mon 13th ... Hell Freezes Over
Much worse than that. Once he set himself up as... GlassBeadGame
Much worse than that. Once he set himself up a... nobs Slim: Let's cut to the quick (I just been info... EricBarbour Let's not confuse the cause of anti-communism ... Somey This is merely daytime entertainment, while she wa... Cla68
[quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='168062' date='M... It's the blimp, Frank
You never addressed my question from yesterday, w... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='168048' date='Mon 13th A... the fieryangel
[quote name='Kato' post='168048' date='Mon 13th A... Jon Awbrey
Actually, I did come to this conclusion concernin... Somey He did ask that it be deleted, but it was kept.
Th... Hell Freezes Over
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='168040' dat... Kato
I wonder how it would be possible to be a true ex... Somey Telling of what?
Sorry, that was just a knee-jerk ... Daniel Brandt
Anyway, I assume you're referring to [url=htt... Somey He's a wannabe spy, or maybe a real one. I can... Herschelkrustofsky
Doug Birch, "Master of the Politics of Para... CharlotteWebb Or, more generally:
I wonder how it would be poss... Milton Roe
Or, more generally:
I wonder how it would be pos... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='CharlotteWebb' post='168118' date='M... Milton Roe
This is one of those Deja Vu to the N-th Power pl... GlassBeadGame
...settle in on the [size=3][color=red]SINGLE be... Heat
I wonder how it would be possible to be a true e... Herschelkrustofsky
[i]nobody likes Larouche, and Larouche doesn... Hell Freezes Over
Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in ... Jon Awbrey
Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='168236' dat... Son of a Yeti
Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in... Moulton Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in A... Herschelkrustofsky
Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in... Herschelkrustofsky
Now in the late 1960s, there was a big change in... nobs
...Nobs even implied Chip had some connection to ... dtobias
Mr. Hell Freezes Over
That's Ms. Hell Freeze... Jon Awbrey
As I have said before, I will respond to any evi... Herschelkrustofsky
As I have said before, I will respond to any evi... CharlotteWebb
In the LaRouche II case, I freely admitted sharin... Hell Freezes Over
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='167835' dat... GlassBeadGame
You shared a computer with him at work, and you... Mackan
Do you think it was only you? They always did tha... The Adversary
[quote name='The Adversary' post='167754' date='S... Jon Awbrey
I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he ... Lar
"SV wants a reevaluation of her conflicts o... Somey Kato, you need to stop posting here without checki... Kato
This latest "enemy's enemy" meme i... Hell Freezes Over
This latest "enemy's enemy" meme is... The Joy
[quote name='Somey' post='167678' date='Sun 12th ... Hell Freezes Over
I Googled "Eurasian Land Bridge" and fo... The Joy
[quote name='The Joy' post='167690' date='Sun 12t... Jon Awbrey
When Jon says there are no Wikipedia policies, I ... Herschelkrustofsky
I notice that Pro-LaRouche editors [url=http://en... Hell Freezes Over
SV's reaction to Dking's excesses was to ... CharlotteWebb My best guess is that continued exposure to the da... dtobias
and the Beatles, generals of a literal "Brit... LessHorrid vanU
and the Beatles, generals of a literal "Bri... Sarcasticidealist Luckily the Americans responded with the clean cut... dtobias
this dog won't hunt either
I don't thin... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='167623' da... Jon Awbrey I have about as much interest in Lyndon LaRouche a... dtobias
...Lex Luthor...
The Earth-2 Golden Age version... Jon Awbrey
… Lex Luthor …
The Earth-2 Golden ... EricBarbour This is pointless. And pathetic.
She's playin... Bottled_Spider This is pointless. And pathetic.
She's playin... Heat Now this isn't fair. Hell promised to answer m... Somey Now this isn't fair. Hell promised to answer m... The Adversary
I wouldn't defend HK's editing, since he ... Heat What I don't understand HK is why, given the n... Herschelkrustofsky Your logic is plausible, but your conclusions are ... Jon Awbrey
Your logic is plausible, but your conclusions are... Somey Quite so. However, I must correct my earlier post ... Kato
Quite so. However, I must correct my earlier post... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Somey' post='167935' date='Mon 13th ... Herschelkrustofsky Revisiting all this history has made me nostalgic.... Rhindle Ok, let's see if I have this straight.
HK: La... Kato
Cberlet is praised by "the Cabal" for k... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, at worst, wants LaRouche-related subjects to ... Lar
I guess you've confirmed that you have a pers... CharlotteWebb All this talk of cocaine, gays, and baseball bats ... Sarcasticidealist except in the article about the "Theory that ... Hell Freezes Over
I really fail to see how LaRouche publications an... the fieryangel
We can only include e.g. women in lists of oper... Hell Freezes Over
Well, people have written about it, but the info... the fieryangel
I don't know enough to be able to answer, exc... Jon Awbrey
I'll say it for you: this article is misleadi... Hell Freezes Over
"NPOV" is supposed to include all posit... Hell Freezes Over
The question is would Britannica allow someone wh... Heat
The question is would Britannica allow someone w... Jon Awbrey
the Beetles were some kind of front for British i... Heat
Britannica doesn't have detailed articles on... nobs
By neutral, all we mean is that we publish the vi... GlassBeadGame
"We have another purpose in fighting AIDS,... Kelly Martin I guess you've confirmed that you have a perso... Jon Awbrey Of all the Whopping Idiocies in Wikiputia one of t... Sarcasticidealist Of all the Whopping Idiocies in Wikiputia one of t... Jon Awbrey
Of all the Whopping Idiocies in Wikiputia one of... Kato The main things I'm getting from this thread a... Cla68
The main things I'm getting from this thread ... Hell Freezes Over
We're starting to go off on a tangent about ... dtobias
You seem to reach decisions based entirely on whe... Hell Freezes Over You seem to reach decisions based entirely on whet... Kato That's right, I don't, and there's an ... Hell Freezes Over And you didn't think people would have a probl... Lar [quote name='Kato' post='168338' date='Wed 15th Ap... Kato And you didn't think people would have a probl... Hell Freezes Over
According to Wikipedia's great proclamations,... Heat
I have issues with single-purpose accounts who tu... Jon Awbrey
I have issues with single-purpose accounts who tu... Herschelkrustofsky
2. Admin tools were used on those articles by adm... Heat
[quote name='Kato' post='168350' date='Wed 15th A... Milton Roe
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='168354' dat... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Heat' post='168490' date='Wed 15th A... Heat [quote name='dtobias' post='168332' date='Wed 15th... Kato
But with LaRouche, you want the experts topic-ban... Random832 But with LaRouche, you want the experts topic-bann... Cla68
But with LaRouche, you want the experts topic-ban... Heat
[quote name='Random832' post='168346' date='Wed 1... Jon Awbrey
Slim has been very critical of Checkuser abuse bu... Herschelkrustofsky
I'd say that the next step is, how can Wikip... Cla68
I'd say that the next step is, how can Wiki... dtobias
I don't think Jayjg has ever edited them -- h... Jon Awbrey
I don't think Jayjg has ever edited them â... Herschelkrustofsky Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet webs... EricBarbour Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet webs... GlassBeadGame
Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet web... Jon Awbrey
Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet we... Hell Freezes Over
Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet web... Herschelkrustofsky
Please note that Ms. Hell is using the Berlet we... Herschelkrustofsky I posted that for the benefit of my esteemed colle... Moulton She's quite good at pushing your angry buttons... Jon Awbrey So here comes Hell Freezes Over, acting like every... The Joy 2. Admin tools were used on those articles by admi... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote=Hell Freezes Over]2. Admin tools were used... Newyorkbrad
Technically, the rules permit involved admins to ... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='168416' da... Newyorkbrad
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='168416' d... Heat
[quote name='Jon Awbrey' post='168443' date='Wed ... Newyorkbrad
[quote name='Jon Awbrey' post='168443' date='Wed... Noroton
Because decoding many of Jon's other posts re... dtobias
Because decoding many of Jon's other posts re... Heat
Because decoding many of Jon's other posts r... The Joy Through me you pass into the city of woe:
Through... dtobias
Dante's Inferno: Canto III
I'm in Dan T... Herschelkrustofsky By remarkable coincidence, SV is doing a reprise o... CharlotteWebb But, like... I thought Baykal was too deep to buil... Cla68
By remarkable coincidence, SV is doing a reprise ... CharlotteWebb
Hmm... somehow I doubt he is in a position to gra... Herschelkrustofsky
Anyway, SV and Will really don't seem to like... Cla68
[quote name='Cla68' post='179629' date='Sun 21st ... Herschelkrustofsky
What's the correct name for LaRouche's br... CharlotteWebb
Who is NE2? [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.... Cla68
[quote name='Cla68' post='179665' date='Sun 21st ... Herschelkrustofsky Here's a link to a relatively detailed map, th... Kato
Here's a link to a relatively detailed map, t... Somey Not me, Hersch. That was Somey who likely knows mo... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Kato' post='179698' date='Sun 21st J... Random832 So, your argument is that this photo, from the LaR... CharlotteWebb
SlimVirgin & Co. probably want folks to belie... Achromatic
Here's a link to a relatively detailed map, t... GlassBeadGame I just don't get it. The largest engineering ... CharlotteWebb
National Geographic did one of their neat graphic... GlassBeadGame
I mean unless all the wine-drinkers live in coa... Herschelkrustofsky
Container ships seem like a much better way to li... gomi [Moderator's note: the wine-realted posts have... dogbiscuit Hersch,
I'd be more convinced of your "n... It's the blimp, Frank
Hersch,
I'd be more convinced of your ... dogbiscuit
Hersch,
I'd be more convinced of your ... Random832 But also the backgrounds don't match -- the bi... dogbiscuit
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='179... It's the blimp, Frank I dunno. My hypothesis could be wrong. Or maybe in...
2 Pages 1 2 >
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| |