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Sam Blacketer |
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Basil |
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New Member
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Interesting that David Boothroyd did not declare in the Register of Members Interests that he held the position of arbitrator on the english wikipedia. pdf of Boothroyd's register entryQuestion 4 on the register asks: 4. Any person or body who employs or has appointed you. I note that Boothroyd's conduct in this shambles might be in breach of some of the general principles of members (councillors) conduct: QUOTE Standards of Conduct for Members
The General Principles
Selflessness – Members should serve only the public interest and should never improperly confer an advantage or disadvantage on any person.
Honesty and integrity – Members should not place themselves in situations where their honesty and integrity may be questioned, should not behave improperly and should on all occasions avoid the appearance of such behaviour.
Objectivity – Members should make decisions on merit, including when making appointments, awarding contracts, or recommending individuals for rewards or benefits.
Accountability – Members should be accountable to the public for their actions and the manner in which they carry out their responsibilities, and should co-operate fully and honestly with any scrutiny appropriate to their particular office.
Openness – Members should be as open as possible about their actions and those of their authority, and should be prepared to give reasons for those actions.
Personal Judgement – Members may take account of the views of others, including their political groups, but should reach their own conclusions on the issues before them and act in accordance with those conclusions.
Respect for others – Members should promote equality by not discriminating unlawfully against any person, and by treating people with respect, regardless of their race, age, religion, gender, sexual orientation or disability. They should respect the impartiality and integrity of the authority’s statutory officers and its other employees.
Duty to uphold the law – Members should uphold the law and, on all occasions, act in accordance with the trust that the public is entitled to place in them.
Stewardship – Members should do whatever they are able to do to ensure that their authorities use their resources prudently and in accordance with the law.
Leadership – Members should promote and support those principles by leadership, and by example, and should act in a way that secures or preserves public confidence. Here is the link to the pdf complaint form for complaints about councillor conduct. To be sent to: The Standards Sub-Committee c/o Mick Steward 15th Floor City Hall 64 Victoria Street London SW1E 6QP What was good enough for Poetlister... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
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Push the button |
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QUOTE(Basil @ Tue 26th May 2009, 10:07pm) I note that Boothroyd's conduct in this shambles might be in breach of some of the general principles of members (councillors) conduct: You almost certainly note wrong. Look at paragraph 2 of the code ("Scope"), which makes it pretty clear that barring criminal offences, members are only obliged to comply with the provisions of the code where they are conducting the business of their authority or are acting, claiming to act, or giving the impression that they are acting as a representative of their authority - as far as I can see, at no stage has that been the case with Boothroyd.
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Shalom |
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 26th May 2009, 2:49pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 7:31pm) This scandal is wonderful. I'm so happy it happened. Thanks, tarantino, for making me laugh in celebration.
People who screw around with community trust do get their comeuppance. It's a victory for honest folks everywhere.
Pure schadenfreude Shalom. There is no such thing as a Wikipedia community, it's more of a gang culture. I've yet to meet any honest folk, just ones who haven't been caught out yet. I could have quit "Shalom" and become an admin several times over. I could have not told anybody about what I had done secretly in 2007. I came clean. I later regretted it. Seeing what happened to Sam Blacketer, I feel comfortable knowing that I'm a lot better off than he is. Hey, my name is not in the register. (My username is, but Cade didn't think of checking the page history, and it's RTV-deleted now.) So I acted dishonestly in 2007, but I've acted honestly since then, and I'm not sorry I did. Yes, that's schadenfreude. Yes, it's not nice. If you don't want to get caught lying, don't lie. This post has been edited by Shalom:
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RMHED |
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QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 8:02pm) QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 26th May 2009, 2:49pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 7:31pm) This scandal is wonderful. I'm so happy it happened. Thanks, tarantino, for making me laugh in celebration.
People who screw around with community trust do get their comeuppance. It's a victory for honest folks everywhere.
Pure schadenfreude Shalom. There is no such thing as a Wikipedia community, it's more of a gang culture. I've yet to meet any honest folk, just ones who haven't been caught out yet. I could have quit "Shalom" and become an admin several times over. I could have not told anybody about what I had done secretly in 2007. I came clean. I later regretted it. Seeing what happened to Sam Blacketer, I feel comfortable knowing that I'm a lot better off than he is. Hey, my name is not in the register. (My username is, but Cade didn't think of checking the page history, and it's RTV-deleted now.) So I acted dishonestly in 2007, but I've acted honestly since then, and I'm not sorry I did. Yes, that's schadenfreude. Yes, it's not nice. If you don't want to get caught lying, don't lie. Your confession of guilt probably just reveals a deep seated need you had to be punished. When your confession and subsequent contrition weren't met with loving kindness and understanding, bitterness took hold of you. Now you take pleasure in the discomfort of other Wikipedians as this somehow validates your position and maybe temporarily lessens your emotional pain. Shalom, vindication is not coming your way, you need to accept the actuality of your situation and move on. IT'S JUST A SODDING WEBSITE!
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Shalom |
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 26th May 2009, 3:34pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 8:02pm) QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 26th May 2009, 2:49pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 7:31pm) This scandal is wonderful. I'm so happy it happened. Thanks, tarantino, for making me laugh in celebration.
People who screw around with community trust do get their comeuppance. It's a victory for honest folks everywhere.
Pure schadenfreude Shalom. There is no such thing as a Wikipedia community, it's more of a gang culture. I've yet to meet any honest folk, just ones who haven't been caught out yet. I could have quit "Shalom" and become an admin several times over. I could have not told anybody about what I had done secretly in 2007. I came clean. I later regretted it. Seeing what happened to Sam Blacketer, I feel comfortable knowing that I'm a lot better off than he is. Hey, my name is not in the register. (My username is, but Cade didn't think of checking the page history, and it's RTV-deleted now.) So I acted dishonestly in 2007, but I've acted honestly since then, and I'm not sorry I did. Yes, that's schadenfreude. Yes, it's not nice. If you don't want to get caught lying, don't lie. Your confession of guilt probably just reveals a deep seated need you had to be punished. When your confession and subsequent contrition weren't met with loving kindness and understanding, bitterness took hold of you. Now you take pleasure in the discomfort of other Wikipedians as this somehow validates your position and maybe temporarily lessens your emotional pain. Shalom, vindication is not coming your way, you need to accept the actuality of your situation and move on. IT'S JUST A SODDING WEBSITE! Actually, I agree with everything you say. I felt terrible for what I had done, especially the secretive manner in which I had done it. I felt the most appropriate remedy, since the deed had already been done and rectified months earlier, was to apologize to every individual that I could find on Wikipedia -- and I did this. I sent about forty messages to every editor who dealt with my undisclosed vandalism. I felt that any vandal, upon realizing the severity of his offence, ought to respond similarly. I've returned to the dark side lately, but in late 2007 I was seeking forgiveness. There's a curious link between punishment and forgiveness in my religious tradition. I can't explain it fully here, but briefly, when God causes you suffering, you may perceive it as a process of cleansing your guilt. My religious perceptions of sin and forgiveness influenced my actual response more than anyone may know. If I had no concept of respecting a High Authority who demands honesty, I would have not felt the need to seek forgiveness by apologizing specifically for vandalism months later. Put yourself in my shoes (and RMHED, this does actually apply to you). You vandalized many months ago. It's been fixed long ago. What do you do now? Do you apologize, or do you just let it go? I apologized. I felt it was the right thing to do. (As for my more recent vandalism, I was almost literally going insane, and I'm not going to reach out to people on a website where I am not otherwise active to apologize again.) Bitterness took hold of me because I thought people would recognize my apology as being sincere. I know that in light of my returning to my old ways nobody will believe me now, but it was sincere, and it will always have been sincere at the time. If you read through my comments at my self-RFC (a wiki-suicide, in retrospect) you will see that I expected my honesty would be rewarded with honesty from the Wikipedia community. I got none. I attributed that betrayal, among other things, to the fact that folks on Wikipedia aren't really your friends. They're just helping the project for their own reasons, like you do for your own reasons, but they don't personally care about you.
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RMHED |
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QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 8:51pm) (and RMHED, this does actually apply to you). You vandalized many months ago. It's been fixed long ago. What do you do now? Do you apologize, or do you just let it go?
I behaved like a twat, got indef blocked and carried on my twatishness and got 'community banned'. I deserved it. I'm not some poor innocent victim of Wikipedia's 'culture of abuse', the reasons for my banning were entirely legitimate. Sure I could apologise, but to what end? Does the WMF board apologise every time its website libels somebody, does it fuck.
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A Horse With No Name |
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I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 26th May 2009, 4:38pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Tue 26th May 2009, 8:51pm) (and RMHED, this does actually apply to you). You vandalized many months ago. It's been fixed long ago. What do you do now? Do you apologize, or do you just let it go?
I behaved like a twat, got indef blocked and carried on my twatishness and got 'community banned'. I deserved it. I'm not some poor innocent victim of Wikipedia's 'culture of abuse', the reasons for my banning were entirely legitimate. Sure I could apologise, but to what end? Does the WMF board apologise every time its website libels somebody, does it fuck. Yes, but RHMED, your vandalism was hilarious. Most vandals are sneaky bores. You were a bold, brazen bull on a rampage. We need more like you! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I wonder how ArbCom is going to top this Sam B. scandal -- maybe we can get Angelina Jolie to ditch Brad Pitt for Newyorkbrad? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Posts in this topic
tarantino Sam Blacketer One No, it seems that verification was not formalized ... tarantino
I dunno. I'm just tired of outing.
How is t... Knight I don't think that http://meta.wikimedia.org/w... One
I don't think that [url=http://meta.wikimedia... Proabivouac
Perhaps someone should ask Sam on his talkpage to... Moulton The record suggests that trusting the Foundation t... Proabivouac
Incidentally, is this really important? I don... thekohser
I dunno. I'm just tired of outing.
I'm ... Kato
[quote name='One' post='141163' date='Tue 11th No... One
I'd be more annoyed that a prominent supporte... Lar
[quote name='Kato' post='174269' date='Fri 22nd M... zvook
Heh. Of course due to aggressive cultural imperi... Random832 Incidentally, is this really important?
His name ... Shalom Tarantino: It must have taken you at least an hour... Eva Destruction FWIW, English phone books aren't a reliable so... Alex It does seem a little strange that in December 200... tarantino
And Sam Blacketer almost certainly is a pseudonym... tarantino
And Sam Blacketer almost certainly is a pseudony... Alex
I revisited this a few days ago, and I've fig... Milton Roe
I revisited this a few days ago, and I've fi... Kato
[quote name='tarantino' post='141270' date='Thu 1... Milton Roe So Sam Blacketer was that Dbiv guy from a few year... zvook
I revisited this a few days ago, and I've fi... tarantino
How did you link Fys with Sam Blacketer? Was it j... CharlotteWebb
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/sonitnar... Son of a Yeti
Not sure I've seen anyone with such a regular... One
[quote name='tarantino' post='174771' date='Mon 2... tarantino
This looks interesting. What software do you use ... One
Looks like somebody's got a little bit too m... zvook
Something I found on WP. I don't want to say... RMHED
[quote name='zvook' post='174766' date='Mon 25th ... The Joy
[quote name='zvook' post='174766' date='Mon 25th... RMHED
[quote name='RMHED' post='174776' date='Mon 25th ... UseOnceAndDestroy Yes it is "just a website", albeit one t... RMHED
Yes it is "just a website", albeit one ... Milton Roe
[quote name='zvook' post='174766' date='Mon 25th ... LessHorrid vanU
[quote name='zvook' post='174766' date='Mon 25th... RMHED
[quote name='tarantino' post='174771' date='Mon ... CharlotteWebb
So we have a UK Wikipedian, with what can be cons... CharlotteWebb
[quote name='tarantino' post='141270' date='Thu 1... RMHED
[quote name='tarantino' post='141270' date='Thu ... CharlotteWebb Wonder if anyone is concerned that Sam, er... Dave... The Joy Should we call a spade a spade? :grin:
Or am I ... tarantino
Should we call a spade a spade? :grin:
Or am I... Alex He's now identified. Not that that means much ... the fieryangel
He's now identified. Not that that means much... trenton it's kinda funny looking at that page. What ki... CrazyGameOfPoker
it's kinda funny looking at that page. What k... Random832 Nearly impossible given that the data the guy keep... trenton
[quote name='trenton' post='174414' date='Fri 22n... MZMcBride
Are there any of you Wikipedians out there who ha... CrazyGameOfPoker
[quote name='tarantino' post='141162' date='Tue 1... MZMcBride
[quote name='tarantino' post='141162' date='Tue ... tarantino Resignation
RMHED Is this Sam? zvook
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Boothroyd... CharlotteWebb
Entries like this become confusing when a user is... Somey Seems to be.
Okay, so... Someone, possibly Mr. Boo... MBisanz
...do we know if he still wants the BLP article d... RMHED
[quote name='Somey' post='174551' date='Sat 23rd ... UseOnceAndDestroy http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...... MBisanz
[quote name='zvook' post='174545' date='Sat 23rd ... zvook
[quote name='zvook' post='174545' date='Sat 23rd... CharlotteWebb
[quote name='zvook' post='174545' date='Sat 23rd ... cyofee Good work, tarantino.
There's an Indian sayin... RMHED Yes lucky old David Boothroyd AKA as Wikipedia Use... One
Yes lucky old David Boothroyd AKA as Wikipedia Us... Milton Roe
Yes lucky old David Boothroyd AKA as Wikipedia Us... MBisanz
For example: User:Fys doesn't exactly say ... Milton Roe
[quote name='Milton Roe' post='174574' date='Sat ... Alex
WP, you make me puke. :sick: :yak:
If that... Milton Roe
WP, you make me puke. :sick: :yak:
If that... WikiWatch
WP, you make me puke. :sick: :yak:
If that... Milton Roe
[quote name='Alex' post='174593' date='Sun 24th M... EricBarbour Yes lucky old David Boothroyd AKA as Wikipedia Use... tarantino IIRC Dominic edited the bio around the same time t... MBisanz
IIRC Dominic edited the bio around the same time ... jayvdb
[quote name='tarantino' post='174575' date='Sat 2... Alex Wow... is all I can say. He sure fooled us. Thankf... Kevin
Wow... is all I can say. He sure fooled us. Thank... Alex
Wow... is all I can say. He sure fooled us. Than... thekohser
Wow... is all I can say. He sure fooled us. Thank... trenton Ha. Like this kangaroo court needed any more credi... The Adversary Back to "Sam_Blacketer":
With hindsight ... Malleus
Back to "Sam_Blacketer":
With hindsight... Ahypori
[quote name='The Adversary' post='174596' date='S... Malleus
Sam voted against the desysopping of Aitias, henc... Milton Roe
Sam voted against the desysopping of Aitias, hen... Viridae Hmmm it seems i blocked the guy way back in feb 20... thekohser Last night, I sent the following to the WikiEN-l m... Milton Roe
Don't worry, I sent an even more inflammatory... LessHorrid vanU
Last night, I sent the following to the WikiEN-l ... Milton Roe
That is what I would do, anyway. I think the door... georgeieboy This is what wikipedia is all about. Falsehood and... sbrown I do support Greg whos been treated very badly by ... thekohser Yahoo! Answers joins the censorship squad:
GlassBeadGame It never ceases to amaze me the rancor Wikipedian ... Jon Awbrey
It never ceases to amaze me the rancor Wikipedian... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='174754' date='M... WikiWatch Would someone be able to confirm if User:84.70.185... Somey If that's the case, why do you spend so much o... Daniel Brandt Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has been ... Obesity
Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has been... Milton Roe
BTW, Gwen Gale is kind of hot. I always pegged h... A Horse With No Name
BTW, Gwen Gale is kind of hot. I always pegged ... EricBarbour Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has been ... Daniel Brandt
[quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='174821' date='M... Milton Roe
[quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='174821' date='... Random832 Okay, I'm convinced. Call me crazy, but arbitr... EricBarbour So answer me this: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wi... Sarcasticidealist Anyone know who Casliber really is?Cas Liber, an A... CharlotteWebb
Cas Liber, an Australian psychiatrist.
Funny, I ... Random832
[quote name='Random832' post='174857' date='Mon 2... tarantino
Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has been... The Joy
Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has bee... Sarcasticidealist I wonder what he will say?My assumption is that he... Kevin
I wonder what he will say?My assumption is that h... WikiWatch
[quote name='tarantino' post='174834' date='Mon 2... Sarcasticidealist Probably more likely worded to offer a wiff of an ... Milton Roe
Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has bee... Sarcasticidealist I don't know what possible hand-wringing could... Milton Roe
I don't know what possible hand-wringing coul... Sarcasticidealist Ah. Well, I wonder what there was to see.Nothing e... EricBarbour (Incidentally, to judge by his comments on [url=ht... Sarcasticidealist Fine, but I'd still like to know why this was ... tarantino
See: Housekeeping. Routine. Non-controversial cl... TungstenCarbide
Help me out here. Is Dbiv/Boothroyd, who has been... Sarcasticidealist So... he identified himself to the foundation to g... TungstenCarbide
So... he identified himself to the foundation to ... Random832 Sorry, I missed that. I thought all arbcom members... TungstenCarbide
[quote name='TungstenCarbide' post='174855' date=... Daniel Brandt
So... he identified himself to the foundation to ... EricBarbour Gee, after looking into Boothroyd's past activ... Jon Awbrey
Gee, after looking into Boothroyd's past acti... The Joy
Gee, after looking into Boothroyd's past act... EricBarbour Soooo much butt-snorkeling......
And Ottava sti... Daniel Brandt The entire EAC (evil arbitration committee) should... Deacon
The entire EAC (evil arbitration committee) shoul... EricBarbour Damn this is a hot one. Mr. Boothroyd clearly belo... EricBarbour Stupid me, I coulda Googled him.
Okay, what about... Daniel Brandt
Stupid me, I coulda Googled him.
Okay, what abou... EricBarbour Flonight
You just added that, didn't you? ;) ... Viridae
[quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='174865' date='M... EricBarbour I tried Google and WR search on Risker--didn't... Daniel Brandt
I tried Google and WR search on Risker--didn... RMHED
I tried Google and WR search on Risker--didn... CharlotteWebb
I reckon I know Risker's RL identity, but I c... Jon Awbrey
I reckon I know Risker's RL identity, but I ... CharlotteWebb
Now quit your gabbin' and note passin' or... CharlotteWebb
If I recall correctly, when Dbiv was banned from ... Mr. Mystery
I tried Google and WR search on Risker--didn... Apathetic File under: Wikipedia & WR ("a Wikiobsess... Random832
File under: Wikipedia & WR ("a Wikiobses... Peter Damian
[quote name='Apathetic' post='174925' date='Tue 2... Random832 I imagine the Orwellian-ness is in the Arbitration... Milton Roe
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='174941' date='Tu... WikiWatch Sadly, this episode lends creedence to the claims ... A Horse With No Name
Your confession of guilt probably just reveals a... EricBarbour I've returned to the dark side lately, but in ... Shalom
I've returned to the dark side lately, but in... Milton Roe
This scandal is wonderful. I'm so happy it h... Shalom
[quote name='RMHED' post='174927' date='Tue 26th ... Jon Awbrey
What was good enough for Poetlister … :P
... Apathetic Among cries of recall, he's announced he will ... Kevin
Among cries of recall, he's announced he will... Malleus
[quote name='Apathetic' post='174883' date='Tue 2... Milton Roe
He was very careful to say that adminstrators ... Malleus
[quote name='Malleus' post='174971' date='Tue 26t... Kevin
[quote name='Apathetic' post='174883' date='Tue ... Son of a Yeti
Among cries of recall, he's announced he will... bambi Cade Metz from The Register on Boothroyd. CharlotteWebb Oh great, does that mean he's notable again no... Jon Awbrey [quote name='CharlotteWebb' post='174906' date='Tu... EricBarbour FWIW, Boothroyd also authored this book. bambi Boothroyd's deleted wiki bio
Question: Why do... Jon Awbrey Remember, SHALOM HSRAM is MARSH MOLAHS spelled bac... EricBarbour Oobie doobie, AN/I has discovered the Register art... Jon Awbrey :hmmm: Ever wanted to be Leader of Westminster Cit... bambi This 2005 article about Boothroyd includes a nice ... sbrown Its very simple. If Jimbo likes you then you can d... Snowey The David Boothroyd article returns, including The... Milton Roe
The Register's article was authored by one Ca... Snowey Snagged this to a text document before the speedy ... the fieryangel
==See also==
*[[Essjay controversy]]
Predictio... Hipocrite
Snagged this to a text document before the speedy... Snowey It seems the editor who re-created the article wit... Milton Roe
It seems the editor who re-created the article wi... Kato
Sadly, this episode lends creedence to the claims... CharlotteWebb
Now usually, arbcom would have a fit if an admin ... Random832 Really? He should know better. A deletion debate t... CharlotteWebb
IIRC, It _does_ show up in "both" logs.... Peter Damian Apologies if this has already noted on this long t... Random832 He unblocks himself with his sockpuppet?
That wasn... Peter Damian
He unblocks himself with his sockpuppet?
That was... Jon Awbrey
Don't understand
What part of [font=comic s... One
Er, but how does he get to retain administrator s... Random832 Someone should make a FAQ for this. How many peopl... Peter Damian
Er, but how does he get to retain administrator ... Shalom
This is funny (from his second RfA):
Oh my gos... Peter Damian
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='175070' date='We... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='175055' date='We... One
[quote name='One' post='175067' date='Wed 27th Ma... Peter Damian
Peter, the quote highlighted in the Register is a... the fieryangel
In short, I strongly disagree with Coren who is r... The Wales Hunter He's up for election next year.
Here are the ... Peter Damian There is an excellent ANI thread from February 200... Kato
Here for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index... Peter Damian
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='175105' date='We... Kato
As you see from my subsequent edits to my post, I... Peter Damian
As you see from my subsequent edits to my post, ... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='175110' date='Wed 27th M... Peter Damian
Due to all these confusing name changes, it prob... Milton Roe
[quote name='Kato' post='175114' date='Wed 27th M... No one of consequence
No, no. It was apparent to everybody at the time ... Random832
[quote name='Kato' post='175114' date='Wed 27th M... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='175114' date='Wed 27th ... Peter Damian
Yes. That's basically it. I remember seeing p... Eva Destruction
[quote name='Kato' post='175160' date='Wed 27th M... Kato
Yes. That's basically it. I remember seeing ... CharlotteWebb
He acknowledged this in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia... Random832 Wonder what kind of client software he was using. ... WikiWatch
Well Boothroyd was a blatant Blairite
You can sa... Peter Damian And here on the David Kelly article
http://en.wik... thekohser I wish David Boothroyd had replied to my e-mails t... TungstenCarbide
I wish David Boothroyd had replied to my e-mails ... thekohser
[quote name='thekohser' post='175131' date='Wed 2... thekohser
I fixed it up really nice, with an additional GFD... tarantino Ottava Rima says at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/inde... sbrown Is this the same Fys?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w... MBisanz
Is this the same Fys?
[url=http://meta.wikimedia... Random832
If you look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.... Peter Damian Blacketer is involved or employed by the 'publ... Kato
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablighi_Jama...ns_o... gomi Pardon my ignorance of British Parliamentary affai... Eva Destruction
Pardon my ignorance of British Parliamentary affa... Peter Damian
[quote name='gomi' post='175273' date='Thu 28th M... Kato
[quote name='Eva Destruction' post='175279' date=... sbrown
I assume unrelated or only distantly related; Bet... EricBarbour And just to drag this back on-topic.....
It turns...
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