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The idiocy and the irony, banning nonsense goes full circle |
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Kato |
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dhd
Group: Regulars
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A few months ago, I was arguing here with Slim about how, back in the old days, she and others were targeting just about anyone as being a LaRouchie, and I described the chaos that witchhunt had caused. I especially noted an incident when herself and long time user (and another anti-LaRouche figure) 172Â (T-C-L-K-R-D)
discussed banning a totally innocent guy as a "New LaRouche editor" back in 2007. Here is my post, Slim simply batted this incident off by not addressing it specifically - claiming that people weren't banned as LaRouchies without good reason. QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 12th April 2009, 6:07am) Not necessarily so. The whole LaRouche vs anti-LaRouche thing was a farce that had spilled out all over Wikipedia. Wholly unrelated people were getting threatened by Wikipedia powerplayers as "LaRouchies" on a regular basis. People saw it with their own eyes and have not been swayed by Hersch at this site. It was outrageous, and one of my first posts at this site was to highlight one such offense. In April, 2007, an editor went to SlimVirgin and Willbeback and wrote this about Mbhiii (T-C-L-K-R-D)
: QUOTE(User:172) New LaRouche editorThis looks quite familar now. [ 10] Like the last HK sockpuppet blocked by SlimVirgin, HonourableSchoolboy, this account has been editing articles that appear in my recent contributions history or are linked to my userpage. Sigh. 172 | Talk 19:59, 27 April 2007 (UTC) Thanks. Sadly, by now I can spot LaRouche propaganda from a mile away. 172 | Talk 20:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC) The message to SlimVirgin has since been deleted. But the spirit of the message is typical. The accused had nothing to do with LaRouche, and his edits had nothing to do with LaRouche. Yet he was immediately attacked as a "New LaRouche" editor. A group of editors, led by SlimVirgin, and accompanied by anti-LaRouche campaigners Chip Berlet and Dennis King (whose Conflicts Of Interest were never questioned) were allowed to treat Wikipedia like an anti-LaRouche version of the McCarthy witch-hunts. Thus creating massive bad feelings and subverting the whole culture of the place. Well here comes the most ridiculous development yet. Having spent years orchestrating witch-hunts with Slim and Will against LaRouchies, former admin User:172 has himself been indefinitely banned by some lunatic administrator - on the declaration that he is the pro-LaRouche renegade Cognition (T-C-L-K-R-D)
based on "checkuser evidence". So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge account ever (going back to 2002), or WP's checkuser facitilities are so incompetent, it has convicted the Witchfinder General of being a witch! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) And to cap it off. Slim was right in the mix during these latest banning discussions which nailed 172!
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Lar |
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"His blandness goes to 11!"
Group: Regulars
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From: A large LEGO storage facility
Member No.: 4,290
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th September 2009, 2:27am) Don't forget the one where 172 and Cognition are using the same Wi-Fi network... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) Apparently doesn't fit the available data the way the first three options do. CU data, and the CU who interprets it, lacks infallability. It helps to have multiple eyes but even then it's possible to be wrong. Nevertheless that option seems less likely... even less likely than a massive IP table error. Sometimes the simpler explanation is better. Here the simpler technical explanation points to a much more complicated social explanation though... that 172 ran a con for a long time is rather a complex (social) explanation.
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Kato |
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dhd
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(Lar @ Sat 5th September 2009, 1:40pm) QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th September 2009, 2:27am) Don't forget the one where 172 and Cognition are using the same Wi-Fi network... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) Apparently doesn't fit the available data the way the first three options do. Admittedly, that would be a major coincidence. 172 actually had a run-in with Cognition in 2006 according to diffs and the chances of the same two people now sharing a Wi-Fi network is minimal. No. The most likely explanation (amazing as it sounds) is that Cognition was a "black ops" account created to demonize Hersch and add fuel to the theory that LaRouchies were attacking WP. 172 seemed to work in a small tight group which included Adam Carr and Will Beback, and these guys were adamant that WP had fallen into the hands of conspiracy theorists. They clearly co-ordinated their exploits, and saw their anti LaRouche activities as a war. This was in the old days, when there really was a cabal. Fred Bauder and even Jimbo Wales were on the periphery, overseeing the anti-LaRouche campaign. And it is on record that Will Beback plotted "black ops" accounts against enemies. Slim was influential, but was almost certainly not party to this, if true. Here's Cognition editing the article of Michael Danby, Adam Carr's real life boss. On his user page, Cognition states that his "areas of expertise" include Bretton Woods system (T-H-L-K-D). 172 actually wrote that article back in 2004. Here, Cognition sarcastically gives Slim a barnstar. Is this a spoof or is this genuine? It seems hysterical even for a LaRouchie. As I said, if this is true, then it explains a lot about the history of Wikipedia - and the McCarthyite atmosphere that prevailed. It may turn out that even the pro-LaRouche behavior was in part a fake. This is important, not because it concerns LaRouche, but because it had repercussions on governance throughout the site which still resonate today.
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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Member
Group: Members
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From: Kalifornia
Member No.: 130
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QUOTE(Kato @ Sat 5th September 2009, 6:27am) No. The most likely explanation (amazing as it sounds) is that Cognition was a "black ops" account created to demonize Hersch and add fuel to the theory that LaRouchies were attacking WP.
That's not credible, because the Cognition who was editing back before I was banned had a detailed knowledge of LaRouchismo that would be nearly impossible to fake. QUOTE(Kato @ Sat 5th September 2009, 6:27am) On his user page, Cognition states that his "areas of expertise" include Bretton Woods system (T-H-L-K-D). 172 actually wrote that article back in 2004. And here, SV adds "ignorance" to Cognition's "areas of expertise."
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
Group: Moderators
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From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275
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First of all, the WP database definitely is f**cked up, to the point where I should probably stop using asterisks in that word. Look at those dates, WP'ers - does that look right to you folks? I don't think even WR has ever had anything like that happen, and we've definitely had our share of problems in that area. QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Sat 5th September 2009, 9:53am) QUOTE(Kato @ Sat 5th September 2009, 6:27am) No. The most likely explanation (amazing as it sounds) is that Cognition was a "black ops" account created to demonize Hersch and add fuel to the theory that LaRouchies were attacking WP. That's not credible, because the Cognition who was editing back before I was banned had a detailed knowledge of LaRouchismo that would be nearly impossible to fake. Nearly impossible for whom, though? I'd tend to disagree with this - someone like Adam Carr or Will Beback, or even King & Berlet, probably got at least some of their information by reading uncritical commentaries and essays written by Larouche supporters. At some point they might easily have reached the point where they could imitate it. Also, the fact that he was mainly active only during that few weeks in Summer '05 actually makes it more likely to me that the account was a "stalking horse" sock puppet, not less. Remember to always look at the first article edit - in this case, changing the photo for the article on Immanuel Kant. I'll admit it's not out of the realm of possibility, but is that normal for an inexperienced first-time editor? I don't think it is, and the anti-Larouche people on WP must not have thought so either at the time, because they quickly assumed he was a sock puppet of either HK or someone named "C Colden." (Also, the account might have been active longer if it hadn't been banned, obviously.) The thing about User:Cognition, based on a closer look at his contribs, is that s/he always got reverted, in most cases very quickly: Chip Berlet: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=17992862The Beatles: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=17880311Australian Larouche Youth Movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=18529862Moreover, Cognition was clearly Australian - his hours of activity were the same as Carr's, often responding to Carr's talk page entries within five minutes, whereas he sometimes took several hours to respond to SlimVirgin, who presumably was/is in Canada. Cognition's spelling is British (favored by Aussies), not American - s/he "apologises," and doesn't "apologize," for example. Incidentally, this actually got me confused about HK, too, back in 2006 - because of Carr, the number of Larouche-related conflicts involving Australia was so much greater than one would have expected, I guessed (wrongly) that HK was also Australian. (I was a little less experienced at the time, of course.) User:172 is clearly British, however - he generally seems to have avoided anything Aussie-related. So, my working crackpot theory would be that Cognition was Carr's brainchild, but that they shared the account among several WP'ers (including User:172) in need of a convenient stalking horse. Or else, when Carr got bored with WP he simply turned the account over to 172. Either way, 172 tried to revive the account, possibly for the same purpose it was used for before, but got caught. It sounds crazy, and it definitely is, but not many other explanations can account for all the facts here - even given that the database has been corrupted. QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Sat 5th September 2009, 11:11am) On the contrary - the more over-the-top it is, the more likely it is to have been faked in order to make the Larouchies look like nutcases. (I'm not saying they're not nutcases, but let's try to be serious about this.) Try to find a diff on WP where Herschelkrustofsky, whom we know to be genuine, says anything close to that - I don't believe you can.
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No one of consequence |
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I want to stare at the seaside and do nothing at all
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th September 2009, 4:50pm) First of all, the WP database definitely is f**cked up, to the point where I should probably stop using asterisks in that word. Look at those dates, WP'ers - does that look right to you folks? I don't think even WR has ever had anything like that happen, and we've definitely had our share of problems in that area. There was a server clock error at one point many years ago where about a half a day's edits got the wrong time stamps. There are no new errors that I am aware of. QUOTE(The Joy @ Sat 5th September 2009, 7:17pm) Is there anyway for the CheckUsers to look at data from months ago and see if 172 and Cognition were editing from the same place?
Depends on how many months you are talking about. We've looked at all the currently available data. A lot of thought went into this including examination by many people. QUOTE(everyking @ Sat 5th September 2009, 8:01pm) From my perspective, the most ludicrous aspect of the whole situation is that 172 was blocked indefinitely. Even if we assume he is guilty of this sockpuppet scheme that's being alleged, this is a case where the user should have been notified by e-mail that the deception had been detected and that it would be publicized if he persisted. That way, 172 could have been retained as an editor and wouldn't have even had to lose face, while the sockpuppeting problem would have been solved. But most Wikipedia admins simply don't care if the project loses a hard-working contributor, if X number of articles go unwritten for X amount of time because of that person's absence. They think of themselves as enforcers, not problem-solvers.
He was. He didn't reply. This case is far too simple for all this drama. They edit from the same residential IP and the same non-residential IP. Either they are the same person, or 172 hacked Cognition's account, or Cognition hacked 172's account. In any of those scenarios, the correct response is to block pending further information. This post has been edited by No one of consequence:
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Kato |
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dhd
Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,521
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Sun 6th September 2009, 2:19am) This case is far too simple for all this drama. They edit from the same residential IP and the same non-residential IP. Either they are the same person, or 172 hacked Cognition's account, or Cognition hacked 172's account. In any of those scenarios, the correct response is to block pending further information.
Too simple for this drama? On the contrary, this is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen at WP. One of the prominent early editors who wrote several key featured articles, and a known witchhunter with close links to Slim, Will Beback and is even familiar with Jimbo, gets unceremoniously banned as a LaRouchie at the foot of a list of obvious sockpuppets? Something like that demands answers. QUOTE(Thatcher) Either way, indefinite blocking is appropriate pending a satisfactory explanation, if it ever comes. Thatcher 12:33, 5 September 2009 (UTC) What you should have done is either email 172 and monitor the account, or quietly blocked him on some other premise. Adding him to the list of LaRouchie sockpuppets and placing a huge ban notice on his userpage only creates a lightening rod. That's why Hersfold was so foolish in the first place. Didn't he know that 172 was a notorious figure in WP history?
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 3,270
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From: EN61bw
Member No.: 6,696
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QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 6th September 2009, 9:40am) Some dude selling badges edited WP on my current home IP (we've got wireless password protection as well). And when I checked WP some 6 months ago (on what must have been a slightly different IP address as it seems to change periodically) there was a guy editing Motor Racing articles! Neither have anything to do with me or the Kato clan. I've heard rumors that there are ways to "fool" MediaWiki's XFF code into thinking you're editing from an IP other than the one you are actually editing on. If this is true, then the checkuser tool would be completely useless (except insofar as it captures other content from the headers as well). QUOTE(One @ Sun 6th September 2009, 10:06am) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sun 6th September 2009, 3:03pm) You've managed to convince me that you're full of shit on this issue.
I do try. I think it's been a while since they called it "@work" though. I heard an ad for it (as @Work) on WBBM last week.
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Posts in this topic
Kato The idiocy and the irony Malleus Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I c... Kato
Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I ... A Horse With No Name
Who is this LaRouche character, and why should I ... gomi So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge a... No one of consequence
So either User:172 was the most brilliant stooge ... Kato
[quote name='gomi' post='192782' date='Sat 5th Se... No one of consequence
Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w... One
Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='192794' date='Sat 5th Se... One
The only other credible explaination is that Co... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='192802' date='Sat 5th Se... Somey I guess, on reflection and reviewing Cognitions... nobs
I guess, on reflection and reviewing Cognitions... Herschelkrustofsky
Get serious please. 172 was a liberal historian w... One
Well here comes the most ridiculous development y... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='192778' date='Sat 5th Se... Kato
User:172 is clearly British, however
No, 172 i... Somey User:172 is clearly British, however No, 172 is (w... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='192844' date='Sat 5th Se... dtobias
I will ignore. Convincing Wikipedia criticism is ... Somey I would disagree strongly there. No criticism tha... Abd ... something more erudite-sounding, like "hi... Kato
This is interesting because Cognition [url=http:/... LessHorrid vanU
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Well I'll criticise in my way, you in y... One
You know, maybe it is an outrageous coincidence. ... everyking
Everyking: do you think potentially-compromised a... tarantino
[quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th S... MBisanz
[quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th ... everyking
He was. He didn't reply.
This case is far t... One
[quote name='No one of consequence' post='192885'... gomi
Everyking, did you know that this 172/Cognition e... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='One' post='192896' date='Sat 5th Sep... TungstenCarbide
[quote name='gomi' post='192899' date='Sat 5th Se... No one of consequence
Ok, so there are three options:
[*][b]Bad hand / ... One
[quote name='Kato' post='192927' date='Sun 6th S... Kato
[quote name='One' post='192935' date='Sun 6th Se... No one of consequence
But don't random people share "residenti... Kelly Martin Residential IPs are assigned one to one. For as l... gomi [quote name='Kato' post='192945' date='Sun 6th Sep... MBisanz
[quote name='Kato' post='192938' date='Sun 6th Se... No one of consequence
What does this mean though, "residential... Kato
What you should have done is either email 172 an... Kelly Martin We did email him, he did not reply. It's Labor... One
You've managed to convince me that you're... GlassBeadGame The puppet-provocateur theory makes sense to me. ... Kato
The puppet-provocateur theory makes sense to me. ... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='192830' da... No one of consequence
I am now inclined to believe that the "new... Kato
[quote name='Somey' post='192839' date='Sat 5th S... Kato
I've just examined the back and forth at [url... taiwopanfob Here the simpler technical explanation points to a... Kato
I remember 172 vaguely, and surveying his work re... Kato Slim reckons the black ops / stalking horse theory... One
It still looks more credible than Slim's beli... Hell Freezes Over
Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche ... GlassBeadGame
Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche... Kato
"Chip Berlet is a 5 cent thug in a long-rang... Random832 "Chip Berlet is a 5 cent thug in a long-range... Herschelkrustofsky
Cognition's behaviour looks typical LaRouche ... It's the blimp, Frank Is it possible that there is a huge technical glit... MBisanz I don't know anything about the current player... Newyorkbrad
(background snipped)
Well here comes the most rid... Somey So it just seems to me that it might have been bet... Kelly Martin So it just seems to me that it might have been bet... everyking
If Cognition is the creepy-crazy LaRouchian who w... Kelly Martin So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchite... MBisanz
So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchit... Cla68
[quote name='Kelly Martin' post='192897' date='Su... Herschelkrustofsky
So you're saying you actually saw a LaRouchit... TungstenCarbide If Cognition is the creepy-crazy LaRouchian who we... Somey For more background, there's this thread, whic... Kato The plot thickens.
Someone has corrected me on th... Somey This is interesting because Cognition [url=http://... The Joy Is there anyway for the CheckUsers to look at data... Grep There's another way in which CU results can gi... Somey There's another way in which CU results can gi... Kato
If anything, it's surprising Hersfold didn... everyking From my perspective, the most ludicrous aspect of ... GlassBeadGame
From my perspective, the most ludicrous aspect of... One You and SlimVirgin seem to disagree about what is ... Krimpet Assuming some folks at a meetup brought their lapt... MBisanz
Assuming some folks at a meetup brought their lap... Kato 172 said he was employed at a college in St Peters... No one of consequence
172 said he was employed at a college in St Peter... Kato
One appears to be residential (belongs to a commo... Moulton Why would an IP necessarily be marked as residenti... No one of consequence
Why would an IP necessarily be marked as resident... Kelly Martin Personally I'm leaning toward the "hijack... bambi
I heard a bit on the radio the other day about AT... One Two identical IPs on two services and no other IPs... Kelly Martin Incidentally, I don't recall anyone here defen... One
It's not that I think you're wrong; I jus... everyking
It's not that I think you're wrong; I ju... One
What could be the motive for taking over an accou... everyking
What could be the motive for taking over an acco... Kato
[quote name='One' post='192981' date='Sun 6th Sep... No one of consequence
My problem is that you people keep spouting off a... Kelly Martin The second IP is clearly non-residential with semi... No one of consequence
The second IP is clearly non-residential with sem... bambi
There's a difference between unlabeled and la... Kelly Martin There's a difference between unlabeled and lab... Achromatic
[quote name='No one of consequence' post='192973'... Kelly Martin In my examples, an IP address "belonging... gomi My fallback theory, if the hijack theory proves fa... Herschelkrustofsky
LaRouchians are not known for their commitment t... Lar
My problem is that you people keep spouting off a... Kato
Incidentally, I don't recall anyone here defe... One I mentioned this before, but when you sort their e... Kato
I mentioned this before, but when you sort their ... One
I'm not sure there are enough edits by Cognit... bambi Here's a solution to replace Checkuser: Chine... Herschelkrustofsky Although I don't think a Will Beback or someon... Herschelkrustofsky I'm looking over the headers on some emails I ... Kato
I'm looking over the headers on some emails I... Herschelkrustofsky
I'm looking over the headers on some emails ... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='193054' date='Mon 7th Se... carbuncle
I'm looking over the headers on some emails I... MBisanz
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='193050' da... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='193050' d... Kelly Martin Received: from [71.101.207.204] by web38309.mail.... MBisanz
Received: from [71.101.207.204] by web38309.mail... Random832
I'm looking over the headers on some emails I... One
Are you sure the "originating IP" isn... Kato After going over everything yet again, I can only ... A Horse With No Name The irony is that LaRouche gets more attention on ... Guido den Broeder I have no idea who this LaRouche dude is, even tho... everyking While 172 has so far said nothing, Cognition did d... Kato In late 2005, Cognition writes to Raul:
he writ... MBisanz
In late 2005, Cognition [url=http://en.wikipedia.... Kato
Raul hasn't edited since September 1 and Phil... TungstenCarbide 172 was extremely bad tempered but highly articula... Herschelkrustofsky
172 was extremely bad tempered but highly articul... One
Y'know, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index... Kato
Y'know, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/inde... Kelly Martin It seems that you, Hersfold and Thatcher are under... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='193193' date='Tue 8th Se... One
And just because I mention universities, it doesn... Kelly Martin And yeah, the University of South Florida is certa... Kato
And yeah, the University of South Florida is cert... No one of consequence
And yeah, the University of South Florida is cert... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='193201' date='Tue 8th Se... Lar
Whatever. I am checkuser, hear me roar. I am bo... tarantino
[quote name='One' post='193205' date='Tue 8th Sep... MBisanz
[quote name='One' post='193205' date='Tue 8th Se... Random832 I still don't understand this "IPs were n... dtobias Or maybe this time the checkusers are right after ... Kelly Martin Or maybe this time the checkusers are right after ... TungstenCarbide
[quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8th... MBisanz
[quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8t... TungstenCarbide I already linked that several sections up.
Good f... Lar
I already linked that several sections up.
Good ... Random832
[quote name='dtobias' post='193293' date='Tue 8th... Kato
Whose problem is it if you think that making a bl... Kato Update: There's a direct link between Cognitio... One
Update: There's a direct link between Cogniti... everyking Apparently amidst all this nobody else has had the... Hell Freezes Over Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at th... The Joy
Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t... everyking
Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t... One
Surely anyone can accept that there's enough ... everyking
[quote name='everyking' post='193420' date='Wed 9... No one of consequence
So how far do these IP records go back? Are we sa... everyking
So how far do these IP records go back? Are we s... No one of consequence
Thanks for not answering the question.
There... Kato
Let's say he never comes back and never even... One
No, but there is good reason to listen to 172... everyking
Of course not, but that tag was a different quest... No one of consequence
Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at ... Kato
Snowspinner has confirmed that Cognition was at t... Hell Freezes Over
[quote name='Hell Freezes Over' post='193407' dat... Grep Apart from the (rather likely) possibilities of pu... Random832
Apart from the (rather likely) possibilities of p... Grep
... the confluence in a single pair of IP address... Random832 Anyway, isn't 172's IP address supposed to... MBisanz As I have said before, I really do not see the poi... Kelly Martin It's also possible that an account could be co... MBisanz
It's also possible that an account could be c... TungstenCarbide
It's also possible that an account could be c... Kelly Martin Can't checkusers save data and then manually c... No one of consequence
Last I heard the checkuser history was around 35 ... Kelly Martin
So, a current checkuser, who is authorized to see... trenton
So, how much of an affirmative duty do you believ... Kelly Martin There's nothing terribly secret about the leng... Random832 I know the checkuser data period was 90 days at on... Kelly Martin :hmmm: Aren't sites supposed to have a privacy... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='Random832' post='193484' date='Wed 9... CharlotteWebb
I had heard that it was 90 days as well, but I... Random832 An earlier thread here came to essentially the sam... Herschelkrustofsky
But unless you actually used the AOL browser ther... Kato
[quote name='CharlotteWebb' post='193539' date='T... Appleby
:hmmm: Aren't sites supposed to have a privac... Kato
[quote name='Kato' post='193592' date='Thu 10th ... Herschelkrustofsky
SlimVirgin can't oversight.
I think he mean... Kato
[quote name='Appleby' post='193644' date='Fri 11t... No one of consequence
The dual identity is unrealistic because 172 was ... Random832 We're no closer to finding out the truth. But ... A Horse With No Name
Not my immediate thought, but all bets are off at... Herschelkrustofsky
Will Beback created that list. Actually, SlimVir... Kato I looked at one of your supposed socks at random a... It's the blimp, Frank It's funny that you should mention that bit ab... Herschelkrustofsky No LaRouche activist would say something like ... dtobias Nice of Slim to demonstrate that there are instanc... CharlotteWebb
Nice of Slim to demonstrate that there are instan... Herschelkrustofsky Will Beback, who speaks for the "old cabal,... CharlotteWebb
Will Beback, who speaks for the "old cabal,... Herschelkrustofsky
Actually he said "A recent checkuser finding... Peter Damian I'm resurrecting this thread for reasons which... Heat
I'm resurrecting this thread for reasons whic... Peter Damian
Heh. Curiously, the doc doesn't have a wikipe... Herschelkrustofsky
I am also intrigued whether the man in the film, ... Peter Damian
[quote name='Peter Damian' post='300452' date='Su... Heat
Heh. Curiously, the doc doesn't have a wikip... Peter Damian See also this
qKxjvroP0jQ
Herschelkrustofsky I had extensive encounters with both 172 and Cogni... mbz1
I had extensive encounters with both 172 and Cogn... Herschelkrustofsky
But why 172 has never responded to emails that a... Peter Damian
However, in 2009, someone showed up at the Wikip... mbz1 BTW the story of 172 is not unique to wikipedia ... Herschelkrustofsky The 2009 version of Cognition uses dry, neutral la... Peter Damian
The 2009 version of Cognition uses dry, neutral l... Heat
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsky' post='300498' da... DiotimaPhil Here's the man himself. Cognition talking abou... TungstenCarbide Here's the man himself. Cognition talking abou... DiotimaPhil Cognition at a Wikipedia meetup with Jimmy Wales i... DiotimaPhil Well, if you want to know the full truth behind th... Herschelkrustofsky Was the Review your first introduction to this sto... DiotimaPhil
Was the Review your first introduction to this st... everyking I would certainly be interested to hear about what...
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