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Dirty tricks cabal or just idle talk? |
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
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There are some strong accusations being thrown out about members of a certain closed mailing list. QUOTE Concentrated stalking and attacks against Russavia
Yesterday a member of a closed e-mail list named "Wikipediametric" forwarded me their archive asking me to do something about it. Out of the 3000+ emails more than a half is filled with discussion how "to get" and "attack" Russavia. Among the suggested methods were stalking Russavia edits, carefully crafted edit warring (making sure that no member of the group would make more than one or two reverts), low level personal attacks designed to engineer civility blocks for Russavia's responses, block shopping, attempts to out Russavia. "Friends of Russavia", particular User:PasswordUsername, User:Offliner, User:YMB29 as well as User:Anonimu were also under similar attack. The group was also discussing ways to plant their own checkusers, methods of creating sockpuppets untraceable by checkusering, etc. So far I have not found a single discussion or even kudos for creating noncontroversial wiki content but long series of joy on every block for the people listed as their enemies, particular Russavia. They specifically discussed how to nurture special relations with Sandstein and use them to block their enemies. Among the most active members are User:Digwuren, User:Biophys, User:Piotrus, User:Molobo, User:Radeksz. The emails are almost certainly genuine. It looks like for at list half a year Russavia was a target of constant coordinated attacks by a group of active wikipedians quite skillful in the art of achieving victory by banning their opponents. I am not sure he was aware of this particular group but the editing history of articles touched by Russavia is quite telling by itself. I do not think it is in the project best interest to let them succeed.
I am not sure what to do about this archive. I will forward it to the Arbcom and I could provide it to any administrator I trust. I would not give it to nonadmins (including Russavia himself) or anybody else (unless the authors give me permissions) as it contain a significant amount of personal information that might be abused. Alex Bakharev (talk) 05:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC) This post has been edited by carbuncle:
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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So, has anyone attempted to make sense of the underlying dispute here? It looks like Russavia (T-C-L-K-R-D)
is Russian and pro-Putin, and to some extent pro-Serbia (in line with the traditional Russian support of Serbia), whereas the people on the mailing list in question are... anti-Russia? Or just anti-Putin, or against pro-Russian attempts to whitewash Soviet history? Piotrus claims to be from Poland, and went to the University of Pittsburgh, so that would tend to reinforce that notion (i.e., he's likely to have a Western-influenced view of Soviet history). Most of Russavia's edits are "wikignoming," adding categories and some rather unfortunate mass-stubbings of politician BLP's and the like, but I saw a few diffs in there like this one, the likes of which apparently led some of these mailing-list folks to accuse him of being a "neo-Nazi." Sooo.... putting their tactics aside for the moment, I can't say I blame these mailing-list folks all that much for their dislike of Mr. Russavia. Then again, it's probably also true that a lot of the Russia-bashing that occurs on WP in general is unfair and inaccurate. Hence the problem, eh?
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 17th September 2009, 10:16pm) So, has anyone attempted to make sense of the underlying dispute here? It looks like Russavia (T-C-L-K-R-D)
is Russian and pro-Putin, and to some extent pro-Serbia (in line with the traditional Russian support of Serbia), whereas the people on the mailing list in question are... anti-Russia? Or just anti-Putin, or against pro-Russian attempts to whitewash Soviet history? Piotrus claims to be from Poland, and went to the University of Pittsburgh, so that would tend to reinforce that notion (i.e., he's likely to have a Western-influenced view of Soviet history). Most of Russavia's edits are "wikignoming," adding categories and some rather unfortunate mass-stubbings of politician BLP's and the like, but I saw a few diffs in there like this one, the likes of which apparently led some of these mailing-list folks to accuse him of being a "neo-Nazi." Sooo.... putting their tactics aside for the moment, I can't say I blame these mailing-list folks all that much for their dislike of Mr. Russavia. Then again, it's probably also true that a lot of the Russia-bashing that occurs on WP in general is unfair and inaccurate. Hence the problem, eh? The Russia vs Poland vs Serbia vs Georgia vs Chechnya vs Azerbaijan vs Armenia vs the Bolshoi vs everything else related is one of the most ridiculously adversarial areas in Wikipedia. This post has been edited by Cla68:
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Mathsci |
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 21st September 2009, 7:41am) MBisanz says that the emails have been posted online somewhere. Does anyone have the link? Isn't it enough to know that the mailing list is entitled Wikipediametric?
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Cla68 |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Mathsci @ Mon 21st September 2009, 8:22am) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 21st September 2009, 7:41am) MBisanz says that the emails have been posted online somewhere. Does anyone have the link? Isn't it enough to know that the mailing list is entitled Wikipediametric? Thank you Mathsci, that did it. If those emails are genuine, and they appear to be, then they are extremely damning. Many of them are along the lines of, "Could someone go to History of Latvia and revert so-and-so? I've already used two reverts today. So-and-so editor is trying to tone down the criticism of the Tsars and needs to be stopped." If ArbCom determines that the emails are genuine and matches them up with on-wiki actions, then I hope they ban the lot, with prejudice. This post has been edited by Cla68:
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No one of consequence |
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I want to stare at the seaside and do nothing at all
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 21st September 2009, 1:43pm) Thank you Mathsci, that did it. If those emails are genuine, and they appear to be, then they are extremely damning. Many of them are along the lines of, "Could someone go to History of Latvia and revert so-and-so? I've already used two reverts today. So-and-so editor is trying to tone down the criticism of the Tsars and needs to be stopped."
If ArbCom determines that the emails are genuine and matches them up with on-wiki actions, then I hope they ban the lot, with prejudice.
FloNight said something about password sharing. Is this discussed in the emails? This would be another thing that could be verified (through checkuser). Edit: OK, Tymek has admitted to giving out his IP. That means the emails could have been sent through Tymek's account by anyone else on the list looking to be a whistleblower. Besides Tymek, did any other editors share their passwords? This post has been edited by No one of consequence:
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MBisanz |
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 21st September 2009, 7:39pm) QUOTE(MBisanz @ Mon 21st September 2009, 6:28pm) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 21st September 2009, 4:46pm) Besides Tymek, did any other editors share their passwords?
Evidence_presented_by_MBisanz presents a very bizarre line of questioning that indicates it is possible others shared passwords. That made my head ache. You seem to be implying that Piotrus emailed you, something which he now denies? Well specifically I allege I had a conversation with him on IRC at 9:24PM June 25, 2009 and references in emails dated 12:26PM June 27, 2009 and 2:38PM June 29, 2009 to the secret mailing list imply he has had conversations of the nature of my conversation around that time and with me, and that all of those things sync up to the subject of his edits at the time on Wikipedia. All of those occurrences he apparently denies or was not in control of his accounts when they were done. Also Thatcher you may want to check my email to you of 9:38PM June 25, 2009 for a more full context.
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[quote name='LaraLove' post='194751' date='Thu 17... Jim
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:lol:
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[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th D... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th ... MBisanz
[quote name='radek' post='208152' date='Thu 3rd D... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
I would be interested in a translation of: ArbCom... Somey Behold the words of evil and hate, and tremble:
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[quote name='Deputy Cabal Ringleader' post='20820... radek
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[quote name='Random832' post='208545' date='Sat 5... radek
I wasn't asking you to translate to confirm w... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
There ain't crap in there and you know it.
... RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th ... everyking I find the ArbCom's own mailing list to be a m... Sarcasticidealist Welcome to WR, Piotrus. Guesswork Orange Even so this thread is strategically spammed by th... A Horse With No Name
I recognized my mistakes and now we are only beat... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Interesting... Somey [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wik... radek
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wi... Milton Roe
Yes and this was a "voting bloc" that r... Mathsci Does Abd's ban stop in time for him to vote? V... Abd Does Abd's ban stop in time for him to vote? V... Mathsci
[quote name='Mathsci' post='208374' date='Fri 4th... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
Abd has apparently joined the EEML.
As I believ... Abd [quote name='Mathsci' post='208579' date='Sun 6th ... wjhonson Can people whose names start with A please stop po... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
I have no problem with the existence of a mailing... Guesswork Orange
I have no problem with the existence of a mailin... radek
[quote name='Deputy Cabal Ringleader' post='20871... Abd While we're on the subject, I think the one ba... Abd Can people whose names start with A please stop po... Guesswork Orange
We are not a closed group, applications are welco... wjhonson But Halibutt is not gone.
See this link
Or did y... radek
It's a matter of perspective. Take a look at... radek
But Halibutt is not gone.
See this link
Or did ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
But Halibutt is not gone.
[url=http://en.wikiped... Guesswork Orange The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Somey
The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
[quote name='Guesswork Orange' post='208433' date... Guesswork Orange
[quote name='Somey' post='208438' date='Sat 5th D... radek
[quote name='Somey' post='208438' date='Sat 5th ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Radek, why are you bothering with a SPA who doesn... radek
The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Somey My GTalk sidebar automatically adds people that I... Wiki Witch of the West
My GTalk sidebar automatically adds people that I... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208534' date='Sat 5th D... MBisanz
[quote name='Somey' post='208537' date='Sat 5th D... radek
Alllllllrrrriiiighhhhht lemme ask this one more ... MBisanz
Alllllllrrrriiiighhhhht lemme ask this one more... radek
See what I posted at the arb com Evidence page. ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Radek, give it a rest. I already told you that it ... Guesswork Orange Anyway - I posted all the email headers at the ca... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208534' date='Sun 6th D... Abd For example, the biggest email thread contains 46 ... MBisanz
[quote name='Guesswork Orange' post='208433' date... JohnA Somey:
I'll struggle to find a better synop... Sarcasticidealist I confess that, based solely on what's been pr...
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