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Dirty tricks cabal or just idle talk? |
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
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There are some strong accusations being thrown out about members of a certain closed mailing list. QUOTE Concentrated stalking and attacks against Russavia
Yesterday a member of a closed e-mail list named "Wikipediametric" forwarded me their archive asking me to do something about it. Out of the 3000+ emails more than a half is filled with discussion how "to get" and "attack" Russavia. Among the suggested methods were stalking Russavia edits, carefully crafted edit warring (making sure that no member of the group would make more than one or two reverts), low level personal attacks designed to engineer civility blocks for Russavia's responses, block shopping, attempts to out Russavia. "Friends of Russavia", particular User:PasswordUsername, User:Offliner, User:YMB29 as well as User:Anonimu were also under similar attack. The group was also discussing ways to plant their own checkusers, methods of creating sockpuppets untraceable by checkusering, etc. So far I have not found a single discussion or even kudos for creating noncontroversial wiki content but long series of joy on every block for the people listed as their enemies, particular Russavia. They specifically discussed how to nurture special relations with Sandstein and use them to block their enemies. Among the most active members are User:Digwuren, User:Biophys, User:Piotrus, User:Molobo, User:Radeksz. The emails are almost certainly genuine. It looks like for at list half a year Russavia was a target of constant coordinated attacks by a group of active wikipedians quite skillful in the art of achieving victory by banning their opponents. I am not sure he was aware of this particular group but the editing history of articles touched by Russavia is quite telling by itself. I do not think it is in the project best interest to let them succeed.
I am not sure what to do about this archive. I will forward it to the Arbcom and I could provide it to any administrator I trust. I would not give it to nonadmins (including Russavia himself) or anybody else (unless the authors give me permissions) as it contain a significant amount of personal information that might be abused. Alex Bakharev (talk) 05:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC) This post has been edited by carbuncle:
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Abd |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 12th October 2009, 4:43pm) In regard to this proposal:
"Piotrus topic banned 3) Piotrus (talk · contribs) is topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for one year. This ban is consecutive with any editing ban."
If this idiocy is enacted -- and it probably will be, given the vindictive nature of some arbitrators -- then I hope that Piotrus follows my advice and starts writing a book based on his knowledge of Polish history. Really, why is he giving away all of this stuff when he can be published by a professional media company and get paid for it? Penalty creep. For really outrageous behavior, one year topic ban. For mild, possibly even positive behavior, one year plus three months. Or did Coren mean "concurrent"? Whatever, this is the first time I've seen a "consecutive" remedy. Has this been done before? QUOTE(Malleus @ Mon 12th October 2009, 5:32pm) I find small town America really scary. God knows, the big ones are bad enough. It's just politics. The area is really nice, and that particular small town is pretty much the worst, not quite sure why. It may be fine if you live in it. I lived in a smaller town that was the second next town West on the state highway, maybe another ten or fifteen miles further on, and it was one of the nicest small towns in North America, population 1000. Town Meeting town, like most of them around here, and when we moved there, having come very recently from California, and this is supposedly the closed, uptight East Coast, Massachusetts, we were immediately invited to participate in town government. I'd walk into the little grocery store which was where everyone gathered, and, always, and immediately, there was someone we knew in there. The chief of police might be there, yakking up a storm. The local minister, who had been a professional baseball player, and who was an excellent poet, often worked the cash register. Two U.S. Poet Laureates lived in the town, and I could say more. We moved to a larger town because of the kids, we were adopting another, and we saw that we were always driving to events or schools or shopping, etc. Otherwise, we'd still be there.
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Malleus |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Abd @ Mon 12th October 2009, 10:45pm) QUOTE(Malleus @ Mon 12th October 2009, 5:32pm) I find small town America really scary. God knows, the big ones are bad enough. It's just politics. The area is really nice, and that particular small town is pretty much the worst, not quite sure why. It may be fine if you live in it. I lived in a smaller town that was the second next town West on the state highway, maybe another ten or fifteen miles further on, and it was one of the nicest small towns in North America, population 1000. Town Meeting town, like most of them around here, and when we moved there, having come very recently from California, and this is supposedly the closed, uptight East Coast, Massachusetts, we were immediately invited to participate in town government. I'd walk into the little grocery store which was where everyone gathered, and, always, and immediately, there was someone we knew in there. The chief of police might be there, yakking up a storm. The local minister, who had been a professional baseball player, and who was an excellent poet, often worked the cash register. Two U.S. Poet Laureates lived in the town, and I could say more. We moved to a larger town because of the kids, we were adopting another, and we saw that we were always driving to events or schools or shopping, etc. Otherwise, we'd still be there. That's a pretty fair summary of why I found it scary. This post has been edited by Malleus:
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Eva Destruction |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Tue 13th October 2009, 12:49am) QUOTE(Abd @ Mon 12th October 2009, 10:45pm) QUOTE(Malleus @ Mon 12th October 2009, 5:32pm) I find small town America really scary. God knows, the big ones are bad enough. It's just politics. The area is really nice, and that particular small town is pretty much the worst, not quite sure why. It may be fine if you live in it. I lived in a smaller town that was the second next town West on the state highway, maybe another ten or fifteen miles further on, and it was one of the nicest small towns in North America, population 1000. Town Meeting town, like most of them around here, and when we moved there, having come very recently from California, and this is supposedly the closed, uptight East Coast, Massachusetts, we were immediately invited to participate in town government. I'd walk into the little grocery store which was where everyone gathered, and, always, and immediately, there was someone we knew in there. The chief of police might be there, yakking up a storm. The local minister, who had been a professional baseball player, and who was an excellent poet, often worked the cash register. Two U.S. Poet Laureates lived in the town, and I could say more. We moved to a larger town because of the kids, we were adopting another, and we saw that we were always driving to events or schools or shopping, etc. Otherwise, we'd still be there. That's a pretty fair summary of why I found it scary. Endorsed 1000%. I hated small-town America for exactly this reason; there's a certain type of person who enjoys interacting with complete strangers, regardless of whether there's any reason to. I am not one of these people. Dragging the thread back on topic, this is one of Wikipedia's biggest problems; the fact that people who work entirely on articles about 1970s cartoons or cat breeding feel they have some kind of right to throw themselves into discussions on particle physics or religious architecture, regardless of whether they have anything useful to say, just because they happen to be passing through. This post has been edited by Eva Destruction:
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Abd |
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Postmaster
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QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Mon 12th October 2009, 8:05pm) I hated small-town America for exactly this reason; there's a certain type of person who enjoys interacting with complete strangers, regardless of whether there's any reason to. I am not one of these people. I am, however, I vastly prefer it in person. Sometimes it goes nowhere, sometimes it goes amazingly deep amazingly fast. I imagine some of the others are quite uncomfortable. Sorry! I do try to notice when the poor victim starts looking for the exit. QUOTE Dragging the thread back on topic, this is one of Wikipedia's biggest problems; the fact that people who work entirely on articles about 1970s cartoons or cat breeding feel they have some kind of right to throw themselves into discussions on particle physics or religious architecture, regardless of whether they have anything useful to say, just because they happen to be passing through. That minister I mentioned was the only person in town who really got it when I talked with him about delegable proxy and the problems of direct democracy. He said that there are too many people who have nothing to say, who will take an hour to say it. He was talking about Town Meeting. QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Mon 12th October 2009, 9:55pm) Perhaps the saddest indictment of the ArbCom process is the support for the principle of "Wikipedia is not a battleground" in the face of the obvious evidence to the contrary. It's right up there with There Is No Cabal. Somehow, they fail to notice that there is a pair of essays, and one of them is There Is A Cabal (WP:TIAC), and if you follow through, and read between the lines a little, it's obvious that some people did, in fact, understand the situation. Lots of them are no longer around. In the case under discussion here, the people being sanctioned for supposedly treating Wikipedia like a battleground, if Coren has his way, are the ones who were behaving less like that than those attacking them and the articles, but ArbComm is ignoring the context. Sure, the list members were aware of conflict and some level of coordination of the "opposition." "Battle." In the edit war where Piotrus semiprotected the article, cited as abuse of tools, the most blatant edit warrior had just registered, obviously for that purpose; one of the list members, as I think I quoted, identified him as a participant on another web site. In other words, they were coordinating, in this case, easily understood as bringing in a meat puppet. If there was an attempt to attack these editors, in September, I've missed it and it wasn't cited by Coren in re Piotrus.
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:lol:
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Giving credit where it is due: thanks to Backward... A Horse With No Name
Not so fast, Horsey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi... The Joy
[quote name='The Joy' post='202670' date='Mon 2nd... Cedric
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According to new, now oversighted evidence that I... MBisanz
According to new, now oversighted evidence that ... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th D... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th ... MBisanz
[quote name='radek' post='208152' date='Thu 3rd D... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
I would be interested in a translation of: ArbCom... Somey Behold the words of evil and hate, and tremble:
... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
[quote name='Deputy Cabal Ringleader' post='20820... radek
[quote name='Deputy Cabal Ringleader' post='2082... radek And here is my "official" statement I se... MBisanz
And here is my "official" statement I s... radek
I would be interested in a translation of: ArbCom... MBisanz
""I would be interested in a translat... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
I wasn't asking you to translate to confirm w... TungstenCarbide EDIT: I just found what made Radek so angry. I am ... carbuncle Just so it's not all "take", here... Abd Just so it's not all "take", here... Milton Roe
(If we don't make decisions by vote, please e... Abd [quote name='Abd' post='208288' date='Fri 4th Dece... Somey It's both. I'm still not as negative as yo... Kelly Martin The "system," such as it is, is brillian... Random832
[quote name='Somey' post='208443' date='Sat 5th D... Kelly Martin [quote name='Somey' post='208443' date='Sat 5th De... radek
[quote name='Random832' post='208545' date='Sat 5... radek
I wasn't asking you to translate to confirm w... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
There ain't crap in there and you know it.
... RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
[quote name='radek' post='208123' date='Fri 4th ... everyking I find the ArbCom's own mailing list to be a m... Sarcasticidealist Welcome to WR, Piotrus. Guesswork Orange Even so this thread is strategically spammed by th... A Horse With No Name
I recognized my mistakes and now we are only beat... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Interesting... Somey [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wik... radek
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wi... Milton Roe
Yes and this was a "voting bloc" that r... Mathsci Does Abd's ban stop in time for him to vote? V... Abd Does Abd's ban stop in time for him to vote? V... Mathsci
[quote name='Mathsci' post='208374' date='Fri 4th... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
Abd has apparently joined the EEML.
As I believ... Abd [quote name='Mathsci' post='208579' date='Sun 6th ... wjhonson Can people whose names start with A please stop po... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
I have no problem with the existence of a mailing... Guesswork Orange
I have no problem with the existence of a mailin... radek
[quote name='Deputy Cabal Ringleader' post='20871... Abd While we're on the subject, I think the one ba... Abd Can people whose names start with A please stop po... Guesswork Orange
We are not a closed group, applications are welco... wjhonson But Halibutt is not gone.
See this link
Or did y... radek
It's a matter of perspective. Take a look at... radek
But Halibutt is not gone.
See this link
Or did ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
But Halibutt is not gone.
[url=http://en.wikiped... Guesswork Orange The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Somey
The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Deputy Cabal Ringleader
[quote name='Guesswork Orange' post='208433' date... Guesswork Orange
[quote name='Somey' post='208438' date='Sat 5th D... radek
[quote name='Somey' post='208438' date='Sat 5th ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Radek, why are you bothering with a SPA who doesn... radek
The new information leak (Radek wanted to copy... Somey My GTalk sidebar automatically adds people that I... Wiki Witch of the West
My GTalk sidebar automatically adds people that I... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208534' date='Sat 5th D... MBisanz
[quote name='Somey' post='208537' date='Sat 5th D... radek
Alllllllrrrriiiighhhhht lemme ask this one more ... MBisanz
Alllllllrrrriiiighhhhht lemme ask this one more... radek
See what I posted at the arb com Evidence page. ... Deputy Cabal Ringleader Radek, give it a rest. I already told you that it ... Guesswork Orange Anyway - I posted all the email headers at the ca... radek
[quote name='radek' post='208534' date='Sun 6th D... Abd For example, the biggest email thread contains 46 ... MBisanz
[quote name='Guesswork Orange' post='208433' date... JohnA Somey:
I'll struggle to find a better synop... Sarcasticidealist I confess that, based solely on what's been pr...
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