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Searching for LaRouche under the bed |
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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The "LaRouche 1" ArbCom case established that "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Wikipedia article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles," and that "Wikipedia users who engage in re-insertion of original research which originated with Lyndon LaRouche and his movement or engage in edit wars regarding insertion of such material shall be subject to ban upon demonstration to the Arbitration Committee of the offense." Ah, but what constitutes "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement"? This phrase has acquired a remarkably elastic definition. Consider this quote from Pope John Paul II, removed by Will Beback as "LaRouche-sourced material," although there is no source cited. Presumably most pronouncements by the Pope get published by the Vatican, although we don't know in this case. Increasingly, "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement" has been taken to mean "opinions with which LaRouche might conceivably agree." Aside from Will Beback/Willmcw/User2004, the other hyper-vigilant defender against creeping LaRouchism is User:172, who waged a mammoth battle at the article "Privatization" to prevent inclusion of material on a conference on the privatization of national security functions ( see the lengthy debate on the talk page.) !72 argued that the material ought to be deleted because it sounded like something LaRouche might consider to be important. My edit, which triggered a revert war by 172, was sourced to the Princeton University transcript of the conference proceedings. Recently, User:Tsunami Butler made a fruitless appeal to the ArbCom, which included an entertaining sampler of recent complaints on Will Beback's talk page. Predictably, this was ignored by the ArbCom. In the course of the discussion, however, Will Beback announces his latest exploit, which I tracked down to the ANI archive. Will reverts two edits: one edit, in article "Laissez-faire," mentions George Schultz and Milton Friedman as laissez-fair advocates that went so far as to call for drug legalization. This edit was sourced to the Wikipedia articles on George Schultz and Milton Friedman, and sure enough, they did that. However, Will Beback pounces, calling it a "LaRouchism." Similarly, in the article "Free Trade," Will Beback comes to the rescue against an edit which references Henry Carey and Friedrich List, and includes a quote from William McKinley -- "remove LaRouche concepts," he writes. He also threatened to ban HonourableSchoolboy for that one. So now, if you are an admin and you want to ban someone, you can accuse them of holding an opinion similar to one of LaRouche.
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nobs |
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#2242 most prolific contributor of out of 1 million+ WP users
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Wed 14th February 2007, 12:15am) Nobs, whenever the issue of off-topic posting is raised, you should probably assume that you are a prime suspect.
Alright, back to the subject. Thus far we have identified four invidious pejoratives used in Wikipedia's internal program of ideological profiling, a program similiar to the concept to racial profiling, in theory "keeping an eye" on all editors with potentially dangerous or incorrect ideological views which may infect the planet via electronic transmission. They are: neo-confederate anti-communist LaRouchie Holocaust denier Herschelkrustofsky presented evidence of ideological profiling which he mislabelled as " wikistalking" in the case accepted by ArbCom against SlimVirgin and Will Beback. HK details his complaint of profiling and harassment but nevertheless can't change his skin color.... QUOTE Willmcw prepared a list of every article ever edited by myself and two other editors, all of whom were accused of being "LaRouche editors." ...In the vast majority of cases, any connection between my edits and LaRouche would be purely imaginary. RD added a comment, QUOTE evidently willing to put dozens of hours into scouring the entire editing history of his subjects and assembling lists of everything they've ever done going back for months upon months. This post has been edited by nobs:
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nobs |
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#2242 most prolific contributor of out of 1 million+ WP users
Group: Regulars
Posts: 575
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From: North America
Member No.: 16
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 18th February 2007, 1:01pm) QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 1:09pm) anti-communist
Surely you mean "neo-fascist" or "neo-Nazi," not "anti-communist"...? Where on WP has anyone been castigated for being an "anti-communist"? Do you have diffs or something? QUOTE So you admit...you are a militant anticommunist... Is that your position, at long last? Response here, " Pointed reference". 654 Google hits for "anti-communist" defined as pejoritived by Wikipedia's foremost gatekeeper assigned to judge poltical content. Chip Berlet: Prepared Lectures for 1989 (Cambridge, MA: Political Research Associates, 1989), republished 1992, "From Concentration Camps to Contragate: Nazis, Anti-Communism, and the National Security State" the author states, QUOTE How obsessive Cold War anti-communism led to an alliance with former Nazi collaborators and the development of the National Security State with its emphasis on militarism and covert action abroad, and secrecy and repression at home. Most notably the Wilcox report from a longtime observer which says, QUOTE Concern over anti-Communism represents a thread that runs through almost everything [Wikipedia's premier gatekeeper of controversial and political content] does. See also Anti-communism#Fascist_anti-communismMcCarthyism#Popular support for McCarthyism (redirect from Second Red Scare#Popular support for McCarthyism) QUOTE There was also a strong and often overt strain of anti-semitism and racism underlying McCarthyism. and finally to bring this into the 21st Century we have Free Congress Foundation#Activist trainingFree Congress Foundation#Alleged links to "Dominionism"See also Scot Nakagawa, When Democracy Works, for updated list of invidious pejoritives, targets, project coordinators and sponsors; Dr. James Dobson's Focus on the Family appears on the list with the Ku Klux Klan for example. Warning: anyone who challenges the NPOV assertions in any of the above links will be targeted, harassed, and potentially denounced publicly with an invidious pejorative without recourse.This post has been edited by nobs:
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 2:36pm) QUOTE So you admit...you are a militant anticommunist... Is that your position, at long last? Without specifically accusing you of quoting out of context again, let's just take a look at the whole thing: QUOTE(User:Cberlet @ 22:03, 27 July 2005 (UTC)) So you admit that your highly biased and opinionated POV original research actually has no reputable published source to cite to? That because you are a militant anticommunist you feel it is OK to put in print here that anyone who was a commie symp is the same thing as a active witting KGB agent? Is that your position, at long last? And your response didn't actually answer the question, did it? Sure, Berlet was out of line, and presumably you felt you did have a reputable source, and (also presumably) you don't believe all communist sympathizers are KGB agents. After all, the latter especially is a ridiculous assertion. So why not just tell him? The fact is, neither of you wanted to give the other any more ammunition, did you? That argument could have gone on forever if the admins hadn't stepped in at Berlet's behest, and we all know what happened after that - Berlet was part of the SlimVirgin crowd, and got preferential treatment. He got it because he fulfills one of SlimVirgin's primary needs - namely, for a leftist who bashes other leftists. He provides left-wing sources that she can quote to show that the left wing is anti-Semitic and soft on terrorists, doesn't he? Slimmy, meanwhile, doesn't need extra right-wingers on the team - there are tons of those, they're all over the place, they're expendable. No problem to ban one or two of them - it shows she's an Equal Opportunity Banner, doesn't it? Berlet, though - he was, and will presumably remain, much more valuable. Hardly the way to produce a proper encyclopedia, though... is it?
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nobs |
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#2242 most prolific contributor of out of 1 million+ WP users
Group: Regulars
Posts: 575
Joined:
From: North America
Member No.: 16
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 18th February 2007, 10:40pm) QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 2:36pm) QUOTE So you admit...you are a militant anticommunist... Is that your position, at long last? Without specifically accusing you of quoting out of context again, let's just take a look at the whole thing: QUOTE(User:Cberlet @ 22:03, 27 July 2005 (UTC)) So you admit that your highly biased and opinionated POV original research actually has no reputable published source to cite to? That because you are a militant anticommunist you feel it is OK to put in print here that anyone who was a commie symp is the same thing as a active witting KGB agent? Is that your position, at long last? 22:03, 27 July 2005 (UTC) And your response didn't actually answer the question, did it? Sure, Berlet was out of line, and presumably you felt you did have a reputable source, and (also presumably) you don't believe all communist sympathizers are KGB agents. After all, the latter especially is a ridiculous assertion. So why not just tell him? The fact is, neither of you wanted to give the other any more ammunition, did you? That argument could have gone on forever if the admins hadn't stepped in at Berlet's behest, and we all know what happened after that - Berlet was part of the SlimVirgin crowd, and got preferential treatment. He got it because he fulfills one of SlimVirgin's primary needs - namely, for a leftist who bashes other leftists. He provides left-wing sources that she can quote to show that the left wing is anti-Semitic and soft on terrorists, doesn't he? Slimmy, meanwhile, doesn't need extra right-wingers on the team - there are tons of those, they're all over the place, they're expendable. No problem to ban one or two of them - it shows she's an Equal Opportunity Banner, doesn't it? Berlet, though - he was, and will presumably remain, much more valuable. Hardly the way to produce a proper encyclopedia, though... is it? (I added time stamp above) At the risk of boring you to tears, I'll make it brief: from that discussion we have the famous, now twice adjudicated Arbitration Ruling, good faith = harassment and the simple fact is, my input into the IF Stone discussion & mainspace was never what Berlet and others said it was. That was primarily a dispute between TDC & others. I just brought in the hard evidence and a little discussion. I didn't know I'd be profiled, stalked, harassed, and ultimately slandered through Wikipedia's bait and switch advertising to get unpaid volunteers. This post has been edited by nobs:
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Posts in this topic
Herschelkrustofsky Searching for LaRouche under the bed nobs Personally, I know little of LaRouche and have nev... JohnA Incredibly there are people who are still convince... Jonathan HK, could you give me some background as to who th... taiwopanfob
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... nobs [quote name='Jonathan' post='22618' date='Mon 12th... Herschelkrustofsky
On [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cb... nobs Reagan adopted LaRouche's recommended verson o... Herschelkrustofsky
Reagan adopted LaRouche's recommended verson ... nobs [quote name='Poetlister' post='22669' date='Mon 12... guy
The Duggan story, as it appeared in the British p... Herschelkrustofsky
The Duggan story, as it appeared in the British ... Herschelkrustofsky
Are we on the same planet? I know Elizabeth Sym... nobs She's linked to the CheneysBeware of employing... guy
She's linked to the Cheneys, procurred a big ... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... Poetlister Apart from this forum, I have only come across LaR... Herschelkrustofsky :blink: nobs :blink:
HK, let's get Dan Brandt involved in t... Somey I remember back in 1988, during one of his Preside... nobs She was Minister for Defence Procurement so it was... Herschelkrustofsky
Alright, back to the subject.
I'd say that y... nobs Well, HK, you & I have never had this discussi... Herschelkrustofsky
Can you clarify what you mean buy this. I'm ... guy
The ADL, like Berlet or Dennis King, is not the s... Herschelkrustofsky
Careful, HK - given that the ADL is a Jewish orga... nobs Can you clarify what you mean buy this. I'm n... Poetlister
The ADL, like Berlet or Dennis King, is not the s... Daniel Brandt John Train, according to his Who's Who in Amer... anon1234
Yet good ol' SlimVirgin wrote on January 6, 2... nobs
[i]Paris Review, according to The New York Times,... Herschelkrustofsky
John Train, according to his [i]Who's Who in ... Daniel Brandt
I think Ace Hayes probably used the term "Im... nobs
I think Ace Hayes probably used the term "I... Daniel Brandt ADL had goons on its payroll when Irwin Suall ran ... nobs
ADL had goons on its payroll when Irwin Suall ran... nobs
There was a criminal case in California in 1993-9... Yehudi All sorts of people collaborated with South Africa... nobs
If it weren't for the ADL, America would be a... Herschelkrustofsky
I'm no friend of Lady Symons, but she can... nobs
I am hard pressed to think of contemporary politi... guy
Suppose we just settle on "spooky," the... Herschelkrustofsky this disambig page.
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsk... nobs I think that it is significant that this is the ar... Herschelkrustofsky
HK: I posted an account of the LaRouche/John Trai... omobomo
I am hard pressed to think of contemporary poli... Somey Only if one is a knee-jerk supporter of the state ... guy
Of course, there's always George Galloway, t... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='omobomo' post='23186' date='Wed 21st... nobs ...when the US Congress put an end to [url=http://... guy
I ask this hesitantly, out of curiosity, but keep... nobs
I ask this hesitantly, out of curiosity, but kee... anon1234 Doesn't that depend on where you're standi... Somey "Masticates"? :huh: nobs
"Masticates"? :huh:
Yah, chews up, de... Herschelkrustofsky :blink: Daniel Brandt I like George Galloway. Herschelkrustofsky
I like [url=http://www.namebase.org/galloway.html... nobs
[quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='23226' date='We... Poetlister
Guy, for instances, didn't disclose [i]why Ga... nobs
Galloway ...won his parliamentary seat ...in a vi... guy
That depends, if you consider deleting certain fa... nobs [quote name='nobs' post='23240' date='Wed 21st Feb... Daniel Brandt As usual, Nobs, you get everything half right, and... nobs Spartacus has good information. They read books. T... guy I've just discovered that no less a person tha... gomi
... Lord Rees-Mogg is not someone whom I personal... Herschelkrustofsky Well, there's a broad array of accusations her... guy HK, you should know better than that. EIR is not ... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, you should know better than that. EIR is not... Herschelkrustofsky I'm beginning to wonder whether there isn... Somey I'm beginning to wonder whether there isn... It's the blimp, Frank It looks like for the first time, a move by SlimVi... Herschelkrustofsky
It looks like for the first time, a move by SlimV... Somey [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin/... Jonny Cache
[b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVir... Herschelkrustofsky
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin... Uly
I am thinking of some way to protest this, not th... anon1234
I am thinking of some way to protest this, not t... Castle Rock
[b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVir... Derktar Interesting that the page was deleted in June, had... gomi Don't forget about http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Somey Blame Turkey?
Anyway, that's probably my faul... Kato 172 is fingering what seems to be another innocent... nobs
172 is fingering what seems to be another innocen... Herschelkrustofsky
172 is fingering what seems to be another innocen... It's the blimp, Frank
I've taken a look at Mbhiii's contributi... Somey As I indicated way, way back at the beginning of t... Herschelkrustofsky
The edit that 172 singles out is interesting, how... gomi As if further evidence was needed, here is SlimeVi... papaya Nah, there's no need for a conspiracy to expla... Cedric
Objectivism and libertarianism are the perfect po... papaya There's no real social structure within the ad...
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