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Institute Of Network Cultures, Koolaid Is The New “Kritikal†|
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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CPOV Listings …Patrick Lichty has been stressing his interest in wiki-based communities in general, a meta*perspective that naturally appeals to me. Here's a comment I posted in regard to that Big Picture POV — QUOTE Having participated in several wikioid start up projects before I ever heard of Wikipedia, and still participating in a wide variety of similar projects today, I share this point of view. The feature of social-technical architecture that most markedly distinguishes a wiki system is its "erasability". This is a major boon to people, like me, who never manage to write anything anywhere near the way it needs to be on the first 20 or 30 drafts or so. And its aid to collaboration is clear, at least, among folks who are capable of genuine dialogue in pursuing joint work. The point where erasability becomes a disabling bug in the groupware is when some participants in a debate discover that they can "win" arguments simply by deleting the opposing arguments. Once that happens, even a little, the people who resort to this type of easy win almost always become hopelessly addicted to it — it becomes an automatic reflex, often literally enforced by bots — inquiry is short-circuited and the "community" has to be protected by scare-quotes from then on out. — Jon Awbrey, 18 Mar 2010, CET 19:18
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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CPOV Listings …I posted an update on the progress at the Magna Farta con-stitutional con-vention — QUOTE CPOV Pilgrims who are following WikiPlex's Progress -- to wit, its "foundering" attempts to up-date itself to the Year 1215 -- will find that a portion of the action has shifted to the scenes of Meta-Wiki-Medea:
meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Remove_Founder_flag
Ciao,
Jon
I suppose we should start a pool on when the purges of e-ristocrats will commence — but positive numbers only, no fair counting pre-purgees … Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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Jon Awbrey |
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 31st May 2010, 10:48am) Reply to objections on the use of the word "cult" —QUOTE The good of a concept or a term of description, more or less following Kant and Peirce, is that it unifies a manifold of sense impressions. As it happens, my work on social and technical means of facilitating inquiry led me to study the factors that "block inquiry", in other words, that inhibit critical reflective thinking, long before I ever encountered the worldview of the Wikipedian true believer. One of the telltale signs of a closed belief system that I kept noticing was one that I dubbed the "cul-de-sac" — rhymes with "cultist act". This is any plank of a belief platform that keeps those who stand on it from reflecting critically on its fundamental structures and evaluating their suitability for the espoused common purpose. For my part, I am skeptical of the hypothesis that "Peter Damian" asserted to lead off that sample thread — I don't think I'd trace every deleterious effect of the Wikipedia Complex to a single mad belief — but I can see some sense in trying to unify the manifold of otherwise senseless impressions. Jon Awbrey, 31 May 2010
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Jon Awbrey |
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CPOV Listings …Taking off from Sam Vaknin's article on “ The Wikipedia Cultâ€, a lively discussion of the whole cult issue has ensued on the CPOV List. I don't like copying other people's comments without permission, so I'll just give links to theirs and copy my own responses here. Re: Nathaniel Tkacz and Seth FinkelsteinQUOTE Wikipedia's cabalism, cultishness, groupthinkitude, whatever you want to call it, is very real, and Vaknin's article describes it quite accurately. I frankly wish we could be discussing the future of knowledge work on the Web, relative to which Wikipedia furnishes a wealth of data about how badly a naive idea can can wrong, but other people keep bringing it up, so those who know are forced to say what they know. This is of course a hoary old topic at The Wikipedia Review. I once began a "meta-thread" in the Meta-Discussion Forum to collect various reflections on the subject. It appears to be something of a dead horse over there, but here it is, FWIW: Meta-Thread On Cult DynamicsI am slightly incited to resuscitate the jockey if not the horse. Jon Awbrey, 03 Jun 2010
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Jon Awbrey |
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CPOV Listings …Re: Juliana BrunelloQUOTE The topic of "dysfunction" is another one with a long record of discussion at The Wikipedia Review. The first thing to know about dysfunction is that it is relative to a function, that is, a goal, ideal, objective, purpose, or value. That brings us to the issue of "espoused values" versus "actual values", as emphasized, for instance, by systems thinkers like Argyris and Schön. One of the first questions to ask about a group project like Wikipedia is whether the values that are "actually" actualized by it are consistent with the values that group members are constantly espousing. When we see a wide divergence between the two, as most long-term observers see in Wikipedia, we have the task of explaining that difference. The complex of activities associated with Wikipedia may be perfectly functional with respect to certain goals — the fact that these activities persist in spite of every attempt to modify them should give us a clue — the question is, "What are those goals?" Jon Awbrey, 03 Jun 2010
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Jon Awbrey Institute Of Network Cultures Jon Awbrey Joseph Reagle posted notice of his essay, “W... Kelly Martin Joseph Reagle posted notice of his essay, “W... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Jon Awbrey' post='226579' date='Wed ... thekohser
[font=georgia][size=4][url=http://p10.alfaservers... Jon Awbrey [size=4][url=http://p10.alfaservers.com/pipermail/... Jon Awbrey [size=4][url=http://p10.alfaservers.com/pipermail/... Jon Awbrey
[font=georgia][size=4][url=http://p10.alfaservers... thekohser
[font=georgia][size=4][url=http://p10.alfaservers... Jon Awbrey
[b][font=georgia][size=4][url=http://p10.alfaser... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Moulton Web-based community discussion boards (like Motet)... Eva Destruction Vannevar Bush's Memex proposal dates right bac... Moulton I admire your last paragraph, especially as you re... Jon Awbrey
I admire your last paragraph, especially as you r... Moulton The mere thought of being castigrated with oyster ... Jon Awbrey Academic studies of Wikipediot Culture that limit ... thekohser CPOV was a rather moribund discussion list. Witho... Jon Awbrey
CPOV was a rather moribund discussion list. With... thekohser
...I actually had a glimmer of hope that this gro... Jon Awbrey
I actually had a glimmer of hope that this group... Jon Awbrey Just by way of bringing folks up to date, my last ... thekohser This will make for a nice topic on an upcoming Exa... Jon Awbrey
This will make for a nice topic on an upcoming Ex... thekohser
This will make for a nice topic on an upcoming Ex... Abd This will make for a nice topic on an upcoming Exa... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='thekohser' post='244627' date='Mon 1... thekohser
Zoom Messy Fooey !!! — They do... Jon Awbrey
[size=4][url=http://www.examiner.com/x-58002-Wiki... Jon Awbrey [font=arial black][size=7]Dork Fibber
thekohser
[font=arial black][size=7]Dork Fibber
Wow... ... Jon Awbrey
[i][color=indigo][font=arial black][size=7]Dork ... Jon Awbrey Here's a possible clue …
Maybe CPOV... Jon Awbrey It looks like we need a disambiguation page â€... Moulton Jon, did the CPOV dialog proceed to a review of Va... Jon Awbrey
Jon, did the CPOV dialog proceed to a review of V... Moulton Jon, your academic work following up on Kant and P... Jon Awbrey
Jon, your academic work following up on Kant and ... Moulton What Peirce called “Irritation of Doubtâ€... Jon Awbrey Incidentally, here is the brand of Pøst-Mødi... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Jon Awbrey Just by way of trying to figure out what happened ... Jon Awbrey The CultPOV List has been pretty dead ever since G... Moulton Cults are by definition extreme apocalyptic, murde... Jon Awbrey [quote name='Moulton' post='246279' date='Mon 2nd ... Moulton The "susceptibility to sudden belief system c... Jon Awbrey
The "susceptibility to sudden belief system ... Moulton Banhammerama
Once you open your eyes to the prese... Jon Awbrey
Banhammerama
Once you open your eyes to the pres... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='246474' date='Tue 3rd ... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Moulton' post='246474' date='Tue 3r... Moulton [quote name='Moulton' post='246484' date='Tue 3rd ... thekohser
Once you open your eyes to the presence of the ph... Jon Awbrey
[quote name='Jon Awbrey' post='246469' date='Tue ... Moulton I still want to know what Jon thinks is the answer... thekohser I have to say, that is pretty funny, Jon. That th... Jon Awbrey
I have to say, that is pretty funny, Jon. That t... thekohser By the way, most of these kids are making their ne... Jon Awbrey Okay, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_... Jon Awbrey
Subj: cpov reader
From: nathaniel tkacz <tkacz... Jon Awbrey
Subj: cpov reader
From: Jon Awbrey <jawbrey@..... thekohser So, we're good enough to provide free content ... thekohser I wonder... is three posts per month a "healt... Jon Awbrey
I wonder … is three posts per month a ... Kelly Martin The real problem that anyone researching Web 2.0 h... Jon Awbrey
Subj: cpov reader
From: nathaniel tkacz <tkacz...
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