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Child erotica |
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
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A coincidental meeting of some of popular WR themes and characters? Stillwaterising, known for some strong opions about the recent porn deletions on Commons and for obessively polishing the bio of professional deepthroat enthusiast Heather Harmon, has added an image of an adult female model to Child erotica. That image comes from the uploads of the prolific Commons porn uploader Max Rebo Band. I have no good explanation for why Stillwaterising would be adding a picture of an adult female -- she is a Suicide Girls model, so at least 18 -- to an article about "child" erotica.
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Stillwaterising |
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Tue 8th June 2010, 3:15am) And what about the children?
Ok, so what about the child, Loretta from SuicideGirls? She's from Sweden actually. Her profile page is here. I noticed instant cognitive dissonance at what appears to be ageplay. As far as I know, all seven sets of images were all are of the same girl, the last six are dated 2005-2006. The first one, from which the Flickr picture was uploaded is dated 2007, so this one should be the most recent, right? The photos were dated June 14, 2007, but is this the upload date or date of photography? The comments section goes QUOTE Abbiss/SUICIDEGIRL/Belgium JUN 14, 2007 06:03 AM Wow!! I already saw all your set but couldn\'t recognize you on these! It looks like old childish pics! Very very cute! You\'re beautiful
This girl isn't native English speaker, but what I think she's seems to be saying is: I've seen your other photo sets and this looks nothing like you. They look like old childhood photos! Very very cute! You're beautiful.Remember the above quote is from a fellow SG contract girl and is very telling. For policy on age verification see: http://suicidegirls.com/girlsfaq/This post has been edited by Stillwaterising:
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Stillwaterising @ Tue 8th June 2010, 7:32am) QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Tue 8th June 2010, 3:15am) And what about the children?
Ok, so what about the child, Loretta from SuicideGirls? Her profile page is here. I noticed instant cognitive dissonance (T-H-L-K-D). As far as I know, these five sets of images were all are of the same girl, the last four are dated 2005-2006. The first one, from which the Flickr picture was uploaded is dated 2007, so this one should be the most recent, right? The photos were dated June 14, 2007, but is this the upload date or date of photography? The comment in the comments section goes QUOTE Abbiss/SUICIDEGIRL/Belgium JUN 14, 2007 06:03 AM Wow!! I already saw all your set but couldn\'t recognize you on these! It looks like old childish pics! Very very cute! You\'re beautiful
This girl isn't native English speaker, but what I think she's seems to be saying is: I've seen your other photo sets and this looks nothing like you. They look like old childhood photos! Very very cute! You're beautiful.Remember the above quote is from a fellow SG contract girl and is very telling. For policy on age verification see: http://suicidegirls.com/girlsfaq/Let's assume you're not just trolling and you believe that "Loretta" was younger than 18 at the time these pictures were taken, based solely on your own opinion and despite the legal requirement for Suicide Girls to verify the age of their models. What was your purpose in adding the image to the "child erotica" article?
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Stillwaterising |
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 8th June 2010, 1:55pm)
Let's assume you're not just trolling and you believe that "Loretta" was younger than 18 at the time these pictures were taken, based solely on your own opinion and despite the legal requirement for Suicide Girls to verify the age of their models.
Lets say for the sake of argument that Loretta was over the age of 18 years old when she applied to join SuicideGirls and submitted a scanned copy of her passport and some other acceptable form of identification like her state-issued medical coverage card. Next she created an account and uploaded a "set" of photographs. Her profile says "Loretta is a 24 year old SG from Sweden" in the title bar. The set in question was from Jun 14, 2007 (3 years ago) so she would have been around 21 then. The first set (2 years earlier) she appears to be over 18. The photographer's profile is here (scary). I don't know what these photo's contain (not a member), but anybody who pays $12/mo can view the whole set, which MUST contain (from sect 5.20 of GIRLSFAQ): Q: Do I have to get naked?A: Yes, you do have to be fully nude. Fully exposed breasts and bums are required, but spread shots definitely are not. The nudity should be tasteful not graphic, but you do have to be fully nude. Think along the lines of cute, pin-up photography and not explicit nudity. We will not accept explicit, close up spread shots, any holding or touching, and certainly no penetration!! Your application never expires, so you are more than welcome to wait until you are fully comfortable to send us a set. This post has been edited by Stillwaterising:
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Stillwaterising @ Tue 8th June 2010, 3:19pm) QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 8th June 2010, 1:55pm)
Let's assume you're not just trolling and you believe that "Loretta" was younger than 18 at the time these pictures were taken, based solely on your own opinion and despite the legal requirement for Suicide Girls to verify the age of their models.
Lets say for the sake of argument that Loretta was over the age of 18 years old when she applied to join SuicideGirls and submitted a scanned copy of her passport and some other acceptable form of identification like her state-issued medical coverage card. Then she Next she created an account and uploaded a "set" of photographs. Her profile says "Loretta is a 24 year old SG from Sweden" in the title bar. The set in question was from Jun 14, 2007 (3 years ago) so she would have been around 21 then. The first set (2 years earlier) she appears to be over 18. The photographer's profile is here (scary). I don't know what these photo's contain (not a member), but anybody who pays $12/mo can view the whole set, which MUST contain (from sect 5.20 of GIRLSFAQ): Q: Do I have to get naked?A: Yes, you do have to be fully nude. Fully exposed breasts and bums are required, but spread shots definitely are not. The nudity should be tasteful not graphic, but you do have to be fully nude. Think along the lines of cute, pin-up photography and not explicit nudity. We will not accept explicit, close up spread shots, any holding or touching, and certainly no penetration!! Your application never expires, so you are more than welcome to wait until you are fully comfortable to send us a set. If you're trying to make a point here, I'm really not getting what it is. Why are you avoiding my question for a second time? What was your purpose in adding the image to the "child erotica" article? This post has been edited by carbuncle:
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Stillwaterising |
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 8th June 2010, 7:00pm) If you're trying to make a point here, I'm really not getting what it is. Why are you avoiding my question for a second time? What was your purpose in adding the image to the "child erotica" article?
My purpose was several fold: 1. Bring awareness to the issue 2. Reuse this image as a test case of proposed child erotica policies (none existed before I wrote them - diff) 3. Test the Commons' community reaction to Getting attention like this wasn't what I was expecting. I don't see how people can sit back in their chairs and freely attack my motivations but sit back and do nothing about it. Here's what I encourage people to do: 1. Read and participate developing the Commons:Sexual content guidelines. Policies set by Commons affect ALL projects, not just Commons. 2. Report any (on or off-wiki) images of apparent (no proof needed) child pornography/erotica to the NCMEC. This included drawing/illustrations/and cartoons regardless of date of manufacture. 3. Report any images found on WMF to the Foundation ( here) 4. Contact the lawmakers and policy makers ( OPTF) and help get the laws changed. 5. Last -- stop attacking the messenger! If you want to "go after" somebody go after the person(s) rescpondible for Cock and ball torture (T-H-L-K-D). Please read my signature below. That's his original statement which has been misquoted as "All it takes for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing." This post has been edited by Stillwaterising:
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HRIP7 |
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QUOTE(Stillwaterising @ Wed 9th June 2010, 5:23pm) 5. Last -- stop attacking the messenger! If you want to "go after" somebody go after the person(s) rescpondible for Cock and ball torture (T-H-L-K-D). Hmm. I've put the images on that page into a collapsible gallery. Let's see how long it stays that way.
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HRIP7 |
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QUOTE(ulsterman @ Thu 10th June 2010, 1:16pm) QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Wed 9th June 2010, 8:20pm) Hmm. I've put the images on that page into a collapsible gallery. Let's see how long it stays that way.
Only about eight hours, of course. It was reverted by (surprise, surprise) leading subject expert Max Rebo Band. (I can't bear to check; are any of those photos his?) His justification is "rvt per MOS". We can't do someting as drastic as violating the MOS just to improve an article, can we? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=367039933I've started a content noticeboard discussion.
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Thu 10th June 2010, 8:23am) Something very pertinent to mention (and I'd do it myself, but I'm banned on the English Wikipedia by ArbCom's Risker, with a top-kill motion by Jimbo Wales to boot) is that people could very likely be using Wikipedia's new and improved Search box to look for "cock and bull story". But, if they slip up for even a second and hit the down arrow and "Enter" too soon, they're in for a face-full of strapped up, electric man-meat. You see, in the real world outside of Wikipedia, people are way, way more likely to be searching for "cock and bull" than "cock and ball", and that's documented with empirical data. In the mixed up WikiWorld, though, it's all upside down. The article "Cock and ball torture" gets about 30,000 page views per month, a Google PageRank of 4/10, on an Alexa # 6 web domain; while "Cock and bull story" -- the topic that more people in the general webosphere are looking for and reading about in the news -- is deliberately demoted to a lousy Wiktionary page that has a Google PageRank of 2/10, on an Alexa # 840 web domain. Normal people would find this funny. Wikipediots find it entirely defensible. This post has been edited by thekohser:
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Larry Sanger |
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Did you notice that in that noticeboard discussion, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Con...ture_.28NSFW.29Michael Snow shows up and declares, "I won't comment on the specific case, since I have no desire to look at the images, but about the general principle, I fully agree with Greg L. ... --Michael Snow (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)" The "general principle" here is: "With regard to collapsable galleries in general across Wikipedia, a consensus reached on one article does not necessarily have bearing on another; circumstances can vary." He doesn't exactly take a stand, but by adding to the discussion and failing to make the slightest critical remark, he certainly seems to be supporting the status quo. Mealy-mouthed in the finest Jimboesque tradition. UPDATE: added the following. QUOTE I find it interesting that WMF's chair weighs in on a page replete with obscene S&M photographs only to take a firm stand in favor of saying, "it varies from case to case." Do you care to say whether you will continue to recommend Wikipedia for use by school children, Mr. Snow? --Larry Sanger (talk) 20:02, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
UPDATE 2: my latest tweets (http://twitter.com/lsanger): QUOTE Who will have the courage to ask the Wikimedia Foundation if they continue to recommend use of #Wikipedia to kids, despite the porn? less than 20 seconds ago via web Jimmy Wales said http://is.gd/cKzi2 it is "bad" to block Wikipedia from use by kids. Still agree, Mr. Wales? http://is.gd/cKvM8 2 minutes ago via web @yardi @wiredcampus Should school kids use Wikipedia when articles & conversations like this happen there? http://is.gd/cKvM8 20 minutes ago via web "Do you care to say whether you will continue to recommend Wikipedia for use by school children, Mr. Snow?" http://is.gd/cKvM8 39 minutes ago via web Re Michael Snow, I should say he doesn't take a stand; but by joining in without any criticism, he implicitly condones the status quo about 1 hour ago via web Wikipedia's Michael Snow and a bunch of others are unanimous in their support of explicit photos of S&M on WP: http://is.gd/cKvM8 about 1 hour ago via web This post has been edited by Larry Sanger:
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Cock-up-over-conspiracy |
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Now censored by flckr.com and who else ... ???
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QUOTE(Michael Snow @ Thu 10th June 2010, 7:52pm) "I won't comment on the specific case, since I have no desire to look at the images, but about the general principle, I fully agree with Greg L. ... --Michael Snow (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)" So ... how the *&$% will you know how bad it is or how inappropriate it is for children if you will not look at it, Mickey? Is the Chair of the Mediawiki Foundation not failing in his duty of care by refusing to have some editorial review of what they are using their donors', the foundations and the tax dollars funding for?So, here you go Michael ... and all over concerned parties. This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:
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HRIP7 |
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Fri 11th June 2010, 8:26am) QUOTE(Michael Snow @ Thu 10th June 2010, 7:52pm) "I won't comment on the specific case, since I have no desire to look at the images, but about the general principle, I fully agree with Greg L. ... --Michael Snow (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)" So ... how the *&$% will you know how bad it is or how inappropriate it is for children if you will not look at it, Mickey? Is the Chair of the Mediawiki Foundation not failing in his duty of care by refusing to have some editorial review of what they are using their donor and tax dollars for? Well, editorial review is evidently up to the volunteer community, rather than the board. Judging by the current status of the discussion, the community sees even less of a problem than the Foundation chair. After all, his comments have been the most sympathetic so far, if sympathetic is not too strong a word to use here. Frankly, I doubt the discussion is going to go anywhere from here. The thing is what it is, cock and ball and all.
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