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Wikipedia ruins "The Mousetrap" by giving away the ending...., ...and gets a mention on French Radio tonight.... |
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the fieryangel |
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the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
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Wikipedia puts the ending of Agatha Christie's "The Mousetrap" on the play's article.... and the Christie heirs are pissed. The issue is discussed ad naseum by the usual cast of Wikipediots...Among the gems in the discussion : QUOTE It would seem best to me, in order to avoid controversy and still provide the requested information, to create a "Killer in Agatha Christie's 'The Mousetrap'" article, move the entire plot spoiler there and then reference it in the introduction to the article. In this way, the final wishes of the author are upheld (and a fundamental part of the play's structure) and Wikipedia gets to post everything just as before.--eleuthero (talk) 13:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I disagree. We don't do that for other articles and we shouldn't do it for this one. If you don't want to know the plot, don't read the plot section of the article (or maybe don't read the article at all). --Two Bananas (talk) 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC) This would just be another form of spoiler, and would still be covered by WP:SPOILER. If a section called "Identity of the murderer" isn't enough of a clue to the reader that the identity of the murderer is about to be revealed, an article entitled "Killer in Agatha Christie's 'The Mousetrap'" presumably wouldn't help them much either (and could even be worse, if they got there from a Google search and the one-paragraph article got straight to the point). I'm not sure how hiding the ending behind a link would uphold Christie's final wishes any more closely - the Telegraph article suggests that her grandson considers it a "pity" when any reference work includes the plot in its entirety. --McGeddon (talk) 14:59, 1 September 2010 (UTC) Or they could just not include the spoiler in the article...
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Cock-up-over-conspiracy |
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Now censored by flckr.com and who else ... ???
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God, that arsehole Garrett 'SarekOfVulcan' Fitzgerald has to chime in too with his illogic. I suppose he picked up on this from reading WR here. These people have no spirit of fun at all. A consensus of arseholes is always going to be arseholery. No big surprise there. I suppose his logic also determines that "if they did not want people outside the theater to find out the ending, they shouldn't have performed the play either". I must check the Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy topics to make sure the child in Africa knows they DO NOT EXIST either! QUOTE No. There is no reason to treat this any differently than any other published work. If they didn't want people outside the theater to find out the ending, they shouldn't have published the play.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:58, 5 September 2010 (UTC Of course, he misses the point too. Folks had been seeing the play for much longer than it was published (if it has been). The whole thing is about a 'spirit of fun' that everyone entered into voluntarily for the sake of entertainment.
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SarekOfVulcan |
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sat 18th September 2010, 10:35pm) God, that arsehole Garrett 'SarekOfVulcan' Fitzgerald has to chime in too with his illogic. I suppose he picked up on this from reading WR here.
Unlike you, I _do_ have a life that doesn't involve posting here. :-) http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?a...id=135705273259ETA: Um, I suppose I should suggest _not_ scrolling to the bottom if you haven't read the Wikipedia article. :-) This post has been edited by SarekOfVulcan:
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Cock-up-over-conspiracy |
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Now censored by flckr.com and who else ... ???
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QUOTE(SarekOfVulcan @ Sun 19th September 2010, 5:01am) Unlike you, I _do_ have a life that doesn't involve posting here. :-) Sure, we know. Indeed, it is a wonder how you fit it all in ... and reading here! I still think your, and much of the Wikipedia, sucks though. This is a case where, if there was good editorial control, a sense of style and a spirit of fun could be entered into. It really is not necessary to spoil everything just because one can. Looking at the topic, they even highlight that the identity of the murderer is included. Now that's just being insensitively churlish. And insensitivity seems to be pretty much what others are accusing you of being over a period of years.
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Cock-up-over-conspiracy |
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Now censored by flckr.com and who else ... ???
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QUOTE(Cyclopia @ Sun 19th September 2010, 4:05pm) No, it's not that it is hard. It is simply nonsensical. No audience should have public and notable information withdrawn from it. Oh, for goodness sake ... it is a bit of fun, an Olde English tradition. It really is not going to kill the girl in Africa, for whom the Wikipedia is really all about, if she does not get to know. Must you spoil everything for everyone? Do you feel so much more superior for knowing it? QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sun 19th September 2010, 9:14am) It's hopeless. Sarek's such an arrogant twat, if he believed the sky was yellow, he'd probably buy 15 pairs of glasses with yellow lenses. Wear them every day, and accuse anyone who told him the sky is blue of "incivility".
He's the Perfect Wikipedia Douchebag, in other words. His delusions are airtight and ironclad. Part of my fear is that is dealing with such a disproportionately nerdie community, as one does on the Wikipedia, is that one is dealing with a disproportionately high number of individuals suffering from borderline personality disorders. Or perhaps it is a question of having to spend time with too many individuals who spend so much time dealing with unfeeling software rather than human beings that they inevitably end up treating other human beings like software glitches. Discretion ... spirit of fun ... does not compute. I don't know ... just send the Order's Most Worthy Matrons a whole load of Wikipedia hard core porn and links, and get him to justify pulling the wings off newcomers as a community leader rather than dealing with all the filth to them. QUOTE "Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end." -- Spock of Vulcan This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:
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Cyclopia |
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Abominable sociopath, kool-aid addict.
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QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 19th September 2010, 5:12pm) QUOTE(Cyclopia @ Sun 19th September 2010, 4:05pm) No, it's not that it is hard. It is simply nonsensical. No audience should have public and notable information withdrawn from it. Oh, for goodness sake ... it is a bit of fun, an Olde English tradition. It really is not going to kill the girl in Africa, for whom the Wikipedia is really all about, if she does not get to know. Must you spoil everything for everyone? Do you feel so much more superior for knowing it? I don't understand. Superior to who? I don't feel superior to anyone. I simply know that it is public and very notable knowledge, and it oughts to be reported in any encyclopedia. I would have been very much annoyed to read an encyclopedia article, read that it has a notable plot twist etc. and then having the twist not revealed. That would have been disrespectful towards the readers expecting a complete entry. I live in Olde England, even if only since 18 months, and I understand the Olde English tradition. Still, we're not screaming the murder's name in front of the theater. You can simply not read the article, and be happy with that. I just finished to see The Prisoner 1967 series a couple weeks ago. Did I go to WP reading about it before seeing the end? No, of course, I just waited and enjoyed it, and then I was happy to see a complete entry on WP about it, to try to understand it (gee, talk about psychedelic ending).
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dogbiscuit |
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Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
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QUOTE(Cyclopia @ Sun 19th September 2010, 5:48pm) QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 19th September 2010, 5:12pm) QUOTE(Cyclopia @ Sun 19th September 2010, 4:05pm) No, it's not that it is hard. It is simply nonsensical. No audience should have public and notable information withdrawn from it. Oh, for goodness sake ... it is a bit of fun, an Olde English tradition. It really is not going to kill the girl in Africa, for whom the Wikipedia is really all about, if she does not get to know. Must you spoil everything for everyone? Do you feel so much more superior for knowing it? I don't understand. Superior to who? I don't feel superior to anyone. I simply know that it is public and very notable knowledge, and it oughts to be reported in any encyclopedia. I would have been very much annoyed to read an encyclopedia article, read that it has a notable plot twist etc. and then having the twist not revealed. That would have been disrespectful towards the readers expecting a complete entry. I live in Olde England, even if only since 18 months, and I understand the Olde English tradition. Still, we're not screaming the murder's name in front of the theater. You can simply not read the article, and be happy with that. I just finished to see The Prisoner 1967 series a couple weeks ago. Did I go to WP reading about it before seeing the end? No, of course, I just waited and enjoyed it, and then I was happy to see a complete entry on WP about it, to try to understand it (gee, talk about psychedelic ending). However, you are being deliberately perverse. The suggestion on the table is that there are ways of presenting information that allow people to make an informed decision as to whether they are presented with information or not. In simple terms, if someone goes to see Mousetrap, one of the conceits of the performance is that the audience at the end is told not to reveal the ending. If you mentioned to someone you were going to see it (and I would implore people not to as when I saw it it was an appalling production) you would think it most improper for someone to tell you the ending without you explicitly requesting that information (and you would be considered somewhat odd for asking to be told). Why Wikipedians think that there is a duty to impart this information in a way that it can unwittingly be read is beyond comprehension. The recent investigation on Wither Wikipedia? very much recognised respect for its audience was an issue. This is a trivial but telling exchange on that matter.
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Cyclopia |
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Abominable sociopath, kool-aid addict.
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QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Sun 19th September 2010, 7:23pm) Why Wikipedians think that there is a duty to impart this information in a way that it can unwittingly be read is beyond comprehension.
Why do people think that going in an article called "The Mousetrap" and scroll to the ending (which is advertised with a big heading called "Plot" and another slightly smaller heading called "Identity of the murderer") can happen "unwittingly", is beyond comprehension. The duty to impart this information openly and without spoiler boxes or other gimmicks is simple. It is an encyclopedia. It is not a school book for dummy bamboozled braindead babies. It is supposed to contain information plainly and openly. Even the one that people don't want necessarily to read. If you want to create the Happy Baby Pedia, with nice flowers in place of the gangrene images, cute kittens in place of sexuality articles, and "Woohoo this is a funny play" instead of information about a play well: by all means please do. But meanwhile, let's respect adult readers that have enough grey matter to 1)understand what an encyclopedia is about 2)not scream in panic when they see something that is not as cute and glittery as their baby world used to be. I don't want to be treated as a braindead baby, and I respect readers enough to not want to treat them as braindead babies. WP shouldn't act as a nanny, "we know what it's best for you" kind of thing. It should be a service: This is a collection of information of public notable information on subject X. It aims, with all its shortcomings, to be as complete as possible. Do what you think of it.
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Posts in this topic
the fieryangel Wikipedia ruins "The Mousetrap" by giving away the ending.... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Or they could just not include the spoiler in the ... CharlotteWebb
The rules of its licence mean it can only be perf... Milton Roe
"I see dead people...." They don't... HRIP7 Useful article in the New York Times today. I must... EricBarbour
Useful [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/18/bus... thekohser
(And in the interests of full disclosure, I must ... Milton Roe
[quote name='EricBarbour' post='252849' date='Fri... dtobias Why should this play have any more (or less) prote... taiwopanfob Why should this play have any more (or less) prote... Abd
[quote name='dtobias' post='251021' date='Thu 2nd... jayvdb
[quote name='dtobias' post='251021' date='Thu 2n... CharlotteWebb
You knew the plot was going to be spoiled. If yo... jayvdb
You knew the plot was going to be spoiled. If y... taiwopanfob Reading a great novel the second time is more enjo... jayvdb
Reading a great novel the second time is more enj... HRIP7
What in the world is wrong with using a collapse ... Somey Well, I [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?t... CharlotteWebb
I saw The Mousetrap in London in 1977, and it had... Milton Roe
[quote name='Milton Roe' post='252194' date='Sun ... HRIP7
How can sane people [i]possibly reject a perfectl... Cyclopia
If you make a concession on The Mousetrap, next t... dogbiscuit
[quote name='HRIP7' post='252950' date='Sun 19th ... Cyclopia
Of course Wikipedians seem to think that the ide... thekohser
No, it's not that it is hard. It is simply no... thekohser
No, it's not that it is hard. It is simply n... Cyclopia
[quote name='thekohser' post='253000' date='Sun 1... thekohser
...no, nothing notable and public so far, apart f... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253066' date='Mon 20... thekohser
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253066' date='Mon 2... Cyclopia
Always the same demonstration for us. "We (... Larry Sanger This whole situation indicates to me just how comm... Milton Roe
Basically, Wikipedia is an adolescent encyclopedi... A Horse With No Name
This whole situation indicates to me just how com... HRIP7
Basically, Wikipedia is an adolescent encyclopedi... Larry Sanger
Of course Wikipedians seem to think that the id... thekohser
Why should this play have any more (or less) prot... CharlotteWebb
[quote name='dtobias' post='251021' date='Thu 2nd... KD Tries Again
Why should this play have any more (or less) prot... A Horse With No Name That play is still running in London? I saw it 20 ... Somey The duty to impart this information openly and wit... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='252999' date='Sun 19... Somey I would have been very much annoyed to read an enc... Cyclopia [quote name='Cyclopia' post='252994' date='Sun 19t... Somey [b]I would. I would feel to be treated like a moro... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253003' date='Sun 19... Somey ...And also [i]philosophically distracting, in the... Cyclopia
...And also [i]philosophically distracting, in th... HRIP7
It's like buying a pint of hydrocloric acid, ... Larry Sanger
It's like buying a pint of hydrocloric acid,... Cock-up-over-conspiracy But this choice already exists: if you don't w... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253003' date='Sun 19... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Apart from that, I'd say that in this case it ... Cyclopia
Apart from that, I'd say that in this case it... taiwopanfob
(That said, what has my background to do with the... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253052' date='Mon 20... EricBarbour Offending readers is not something that can be tak... Cyclopia
Offending readers is not something that can be ta... taiwopanfob Not really. I don't think this is a forum of e... Cyclopia
Are you, as an editor at the project, basically l... Cyclopia
I'll also point out that I predicted you woul... lilburne
Note that I said mirror, not fork. You could bui... lilburne
Offending readers is not something that can be t... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253059' date='Mon 20... lilburne
I find it pretty ridicolous that they blocked yo... Larry Sanger This is another gem:
[quote name='Somey' post='25... Larry Sanger Here's another way to explain it. Basically, ... Cyclopia
This is another gem:
[quote name='Cyclopia' post=... Larry Sanger
I don't pretend that this isn't the case,... Cyclopia
I don't pretend that this isn't the case... HRIP7
I already linked a cinema blog, quite clearly pop... Larry Sanger
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253126' date='Mon 20... Emperor
Again: you seem to reason like people is forced t... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253115' date='Mon 20... Emperor
And why "it's up to critics to explain... Cyclopia
I started my own encyclopedia to fill the need fo... Emperor
[quote name='Emperor' post='253267' date='Tue 21s... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253271' date='Mon 20... GlassBeadGame
Hey, you are the third guy in a row that is ack... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253274' date='Mon 20... Milton Roe
Once I was at a one-day course about Myers-Briggs... WikiWatch No need to buy the book. Wikipedia has it covered:... Jon Awbrey
Hey, you are the [i]third guy in a row that is ac... lilburne
Again: you seem to reason like people is forced ... Milton Roe
Obviously, there is a reason: revealing a signifi... carbuncle
Oh, I think Cyclopia knows this "truth.... A Horse With No Name
Doesn't care what others are feeling? You mak... Cyclopia
Oh, I think Cyclopia knows this "truth.... Milton Roe
Lol. I am not. I happen to have a curiosity about... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253121' date='Mon 20... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Obviously, there is a reason: revealing a signific... Cyclopia
What we are talking about here is The Mousetrap -... Larry Sanger
[quote name='Cock-up-over-conspira... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cock-up-over-conspir... Larry Sanger
[quote name='Larry Sanger' post='253138' date='Mo... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253147' date='Mon 20... Milton Roe
while my axiom is:
See? Public and notable is ... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253153' date='Mon 20... Milton Roe
And that's because of the creepy guys like yo... Larry Sanger
Just for the record: I took my Ph.D. in Italy, no... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253153' date='Mon 20... Larry Sanger From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cyclopia , ... Cyclopia
That is easy to say, but when you come down to it... thekohser
If published, why should they be illegal? Ugly ... Cyclopia
If published, why should they be illegal? Ugly... Cyclopia
[quote name='thekohser' post='253171' date='Mon 2... thekohser
I understand what you mean (yes, there is hypocri... thekohser
My life is not published on any book, nor reporte... Milton Roe
What we are talking about here is The Mousetrap -... A Horse With No Name
[quote name='Cock-up-over-conspira... A Horse With No Name
God, that arsehole Garrett 'SarekOfVulcan... Michaeldsuarez Wikipedia could do what Wookieepeda does
The Neos... Cyclopia Also, for example, it seems that a lot of cinema-l... Somey I am not talking of your intentions. I am talking ... EricBarbour Okay, Cyclopia. Here's a question for you.
Do... Cyclopia
Okay, Cyclopia. Here's a question for you.
D... A Horse With No Name
I have little respect for Brandt...
It cuts bot... Cyclopia
I have little respect for Brandt...
It cuts bo... A Horse With No Name
But this has little to do with [i]The Mousetrap, ... Somey
Ultimately, the reason they're so intransigen... Larry Sanger
Quote of the year! :lol:
Indeed, he gets th... dtobias It's part of the "geek mindset" (I k... GlassBeadGame
It's part of the "geek mindset" (I ... Milton Roe
It's part of the "geek mindset" (I ... GlassBeadGame
It's not just a geek mindset, it's gener... Cyclopia
It's part of the "geek mindset" (I ... Milton Roe
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[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253167' date='Mon 20... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253167' date='Mon 20... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253167' date='Mon 2... Milton Roe
No. But what do you think of some adult person dr... Cyclopia
No. But what do you think of some adult person d... Milton Roe
[quote name='Milton Roe' post='253189' date='Mon ... HRIP7
Rest assured that it is not a special ability. AS... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253187' date='Mon 20... HRIP7
Thanks for the coconut! Sincerely, even if yo... A Horse With No Name
Luckly I found an Italian girlfriend.
Okay, now... A Horse With No Name
I am informally quite Asperger (never diagnosed ... HRIP7
It's part of the "geek mindset" (I ... Cyclopia
[quote name='dtobias' post='253161' date='Mon 20t... lilburne
However, they are all over the place on the Inter... HRIP7
You know what drives me mad? You guys are all tal... Somey You know what drives me mad? You guys are all talk... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253194' date='Mon 20... Somey I wholly agree that it won't be by removing sp... Cyclopia
[quote name='Cyclopia' post='253210' date='Mon 20... dogbiscuit
Uhm, no. It only assumes that the reader, in that... CharlotteWebb
I would not expect an article in an encyclopedia ... HRIP7
Tough call: after all the photos were smuggled il... Cyclopia
Tough call: after all the photos were smuggled i... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Remembering in every disagreement, there is much o... HRIP7
Remembering in every disagreement, there is much ... Cyclopia
Cyclopedia, I don't think you are a bad perso... tarantino THERE IS NO NEED TO REMOVE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION... Jon Awbrey
THERE IS NO NEED TO REMOVE ALL OF THAT INFORMATIO... Cock-up-over-conspiracy A lot of this again also comes down to marketing a... dtobias I come out as an INTJ on those tests.
I'd hug... dogbiscuit Mod note: Horsey's inappropriate off-topic ram... A Horse With No Name
Mod note: Horsey's inappropriate off-topic ra... RHeterodyne Earlier today, I was reading an article about some...
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