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Paid editing, finally gets a full discussion |
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tarantino |
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the Dude abides
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Jimmy Wales was recently in London to give the keynote speech at The Guardian’s Changing Media Summit and he quoted the founder of the PR firm Freud Communications. The same day he was also editing the Strategy Wiki from the offices of Freud Communications. Ripe database query: CODE % Information related to '80.169.89.64 - 80.169.89.127'
inetnum: 80.169.89.64 - 80.169.89.127 netname: COLT-FREUD-COMMUNICATIONS-LTD descr: FREUD COMMUNICATIONS LTD country: GB admin-c: MW4136-RIPE tech-c: MW4136-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: COLT-UK source: RIPE # Filtered
person: MARCUS WHISTLER address: FREUD COMMUNICATIONS LTD address: 55 NEWMAN STREET, London, W1P 3PG phone: +44 02030036423 nic-hdl: MW4136-RIPE mnt-by: COLT-UK source: RIPE # Filtered
Back in 2007, when Freud Communications was caught editing Wikipedia articles about their clients, their spokesman Oliver Wheeler said the edits were "very factual" and "perfectly justifiable." So there you go. If you're a top 10 PR firm, and your paid editing on Wikipedia is factual and justifiable, it's A-OK. Jimmy may even 'friend' you! This post has been edited by tarantino:
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 25th March 2010, 1:07pm) Jimmy Wales was recently in London to give the keynote speech at The Guardian’s Changing Media Summit and he quoted the founder of the PR firm Freud Communications. The same day he was also editing the Strategy Wiki from the offices of Freud Communications. Ripe database query: CODE % Information related to '80.169.89.64 - 80.169.89.127'
inetnum: 80.169.89.64 - 80.169.89.127 netname: COLT-FREUD-COMMUNICATIONS-LTD descr: FREUD COMMUNICATIONS LTD country: GB admin-c: MW4136-RIPE tech-c: MW4136-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: COLT-UK source: RIPE # Filtered
person: MARCUS WHISTLER address: FREUD COMMUNICATIONS LTD address: 55 NEWMAN STREET, London, W1P 3PG phone: +44 02030036423 nic-hdl: MW4136-RIPE mnt-by: COLT-UK source: RIPE # Filtered
Back in 2007, when Freud Communications was caught editing Wikipedia articles about their clients, their spokesman Oliver Wheeler said the edits were "very factual" and "perfectly justifiable." So there you go. If you're a top 10 PR firm, and your paid editing on Wikipedia is factual and justifiable, it's A-OK. Jimmy may even 'friend' you! Hmmm. If you look at user:80.169.89.66 on WP it says it's just one outlet IP port of COLT Telcom GmbH, which is a proxy-server. Ironic that Jimbo is using one (since users are generally not supposed to), but I don't necessarily thing it puts him in the Colt Telcom offices. Anymore than I'm in Reston, VA when I use Comcast.
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 25th March 2010, 6:14pm) Hmmm. If you look at user:80.169.89.66 on WP it says it's just one outlet IP port of COLT Telcom GmbH, which is a proxy-server. Ironic that Jimbo is using one (since users are generally not supposed to), but I don't necessarily thing it puts him in the Colt Telcom offices. Anymore than I'm in Reston, VA when I use Comcast. And you trust Fabrictramp (T-C-L-K-R-D)
to have come to that conclusion responsibly? It seems far more likely that that information was provided by someone who sought to conceal Freud's involvement. It's fairly clear from RIPE records that that IP address is assigned to Freud, who gets their transit service from COLT's UK division, along with IP neighbors Comac Capital LLP and Fragomen GB Limited, both also UK corporations. Also, the .66 address is the second IP (out of 64) in the range allocated to Freud. Freud is using a 3com device, possibly a 3036, as their gateway device, at 80.169.89.65, so .66 is the first available IP on their address block and is likely used either as the PAT address for the internal network or for an internal HTTP proxy server. Their email is outsourced to Frontbridge and their web hosting to Publicis Technology of Paris, France, so they probably have no public services on the 80.169.86.64/26 network, making that allocation a waste of at least 48 and arguably as many as 63 perfectly good IP addresses. The statement that the IP is a "proxy server" is probably technically correct, as is the statement that the IP belongs to COLT Telecom. It's just that the proxy server is owned by Freud and used only by Freud, and the IP, while "owned" by COLT is being leased to Freud for their exclusive use. Exactly the sort of "truth" I expect from a marketing firm. The idea that a PR firm would attempt to conceal by misdirection their involvement in Wikipedia is, of course, completely unfathomable. And we've had plenty of demonstrations from people (such as the esteemed Alison) of the general incompetence of Wikipedia's administrators at interpreting forensic IP evidence.
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 25th March 2010, 7:38pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 25th March 2010, 6:14pm) Hmmm. If you look at user:80.169.89.66 on WP it says it's just one outlet IP port of COLT Telcom GmbH, which is a proxy-server. Ironic that Jimbo is using one (since users are generally not supposed to), but I don't necessarily thing it puts him in the Colt Telcom offices. Anymore than I'm in Reston, VA when I use Comcast. And you trust Fabrictramp (T-C-L-K-R-D)
to have come to that conclusion responsibly? It seems far more likely that that information was provided by someone who sought to conceal Freud's involvement. It's fairly clear from RIPE records that that IP address is assigned to Freud, who gets their transit service from COLT's UK division, along with IP neighbors Comac Capital LLP and Fragomen GB Limited, both also UK corporations. Also, the .66 address is the second IP (out of 64) in the range allocated to Freud. Freud is using a 3com device, possibly a 3036, as their gateway device, at 80.169.89.65, so .66 is the first available IP on their address block and is likely used either as the PAT address for the internal network or for an internal HTTP proxy server. Their email is outsourced to Frontbridge and their web hosting to Publicis Technology of Paris, France, so they probably have no public services on the 80.169.86.64/26 network, making that allocation a waste of at least 48 and arguably as many as 63 perfectly good IP addresses. The statement that the IP is a "proxy server" is probably technically correct, as is the statement that the IP belongs to COLT Telecom. It's just that the proxy server is owned by Freud and used only by Freud, and the IP, while "owned" by COLT is being leased to Freud for their exclusive use. Exactly the sort of "truth" I expect from a marketing firm. The idea that a PR firm would attempt to conceal by misdirection their involvement in Wikipedia is, of course, completely unfathomable. And we've had plenty of demonstrations from people (such as the esteemed Alison) of the general incompetence of Wikipedia's administrators at interpreting forensic IP evidence. Thank you. Fascinating! So as I read you, we can with reasonable certainty conclude that Jimbo cannot have posted from that IP address by simply using COLT somewhere else in the UK. He's posting from a block assigned permanently to Freud, and while the IPs may rotate fromwhat within that, if they come out to the net at 80.169.89.66, as Jimbo's just did, they have to go IN from a computer connecting to the net via a Freud-owned company server. Which would mean that Jimbo at least was in the Freud company offices someplace, using their WiFi from his laptop to access the net from their company. I think Tarantino is right-- this sort of doesn't pass the sniff test for somebody who has been up on their high horse about paid editing on WP. Particularly not with a firm that has already been caught doing it wrong. So Jimbo's talking to a really big PR firm in London, one that has already been caught getting paid to edit articles for clients on WP years ago (yeah, sure, they've stopped doing that, I bet). So, do we think Jimbo's in their offices to do some kind of business with them? It's not like WMF to pay money to anybody if they can get it for free or by trading something for it. What sort of informal deal do you suppose WMF and Jimbo are doing with Freud? Let me guess, according to WMF's spokesman, it must be that Jimbo is after what WMF is always after from PR flacks: photos of Freud's offices that Jimbo can upload to COMMONS to illustrate a neutrally written article about the company. Ya think? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) Stupidly, MR
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 25th March 2010, 9:31pm) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 25th March 2010, 7:38pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 25th March 2010, 6:14pm) Hmmm. If you look at user:80.169.89.66 on WP it says it's just one outlet IP port of COLT Telcom GmbH, which is a proxy-server. Ironic that Jimbo is using one (since users are generally not supposed to), but I don't necessarily thing it puts him in the Colt Telcom offices. Anymore than I'm in Reston, VA when I use Comcast. And you trust Fabrictramp (T-C-L-K-R-D)
to have come to that conclusion responsibly? It seems far more likely that that information was provided by someone who sought to conceal Freud's involvement. It's fairly clear from RIPE records that that IP address is assigned to Freud, who gets their transit service from COLT's UK division, along with IP neighbors Comac Capital LLP and Fragomen GB Limited, both also UK corporations. Also, the .66 address is the second IP (out of 64) in the range allocated to Freud. Freud is using a 3com device, possibly a 3036, as their gateway device, at 80.169.89.65, so .66 is the first available IP on their address block and is likely used either as the PAT address for the internal network or for an internal HTTP proxy server. Their email is outsourced to Frontbridge and their web hosting to Publicis Technology of Paris, France, so they probably have no public services on the 80.169.86.64/26 network, making that allocation a waste of at least 48 and arguably as many as 63 perfectly good IP addresses. The statement that the IP is a "proxy server" is probably technically correct, as is the statement that the IP belongs to COLT Telecom. It's just that the proxy server is owned by Freud and used only by Freud, and the IP, while "owned" by COLT is being leased to Freud for their exclusive use. Exactly the sort of "truth" I expect from a marketing firm. The idea that a PR firm would attempt to conceal by misdirection their involvement in Wikipedia is, of course, completely unfathomable. And we've had plenty of demonstrations from people (such as the esteemed Alison) of the general incompetence of Wikipedia's administrators at interpreting forensic IP evidence. Thank you. Fascinating! So as I read you, we can with reasonable certainty conclude that Jimbo cannot have posted from that IP address by simply using COLT somewhere else in the UK. He's posting from a block assigned permanently to Freud, and while the IPs may rotate fromwhat within that, if they come out to the net at 80.169.89.66, as Jimbo's just did, they have to go IN from a computer connecting to the net via a Freud-owned company server. Which would mean that Jimbo at least was in the Freud company offices someplace, using their WiFi from his laptop to access the net from their company. I think Tarantino is right-- this sort of doesn't pass the sniff test for somebody who has been up on their high horse about paid editing on WP. Particularly not with a firm that has already been caught doing it wrong. So Jimbo's talking to a really big PR firm in London, one that has already been caught getting paid to edit articles for clients on WP years ago (yeah, sure, they've stopped doing that, I bet). So, do we think Jimbo's in their offices to do some kind of business with them? It's not like WMF to pay money to anybody if they can get it for free or by trading something for it. What sort of informal deal do you suppose WMF and Jimbo are doing with Freud? LOL. This reminds me again how "informal" this really could be, whatever else it was. In March 2010, Jimbo probably was posting from Freud Communications from Kate Garvey's office computer there. Since she was apparently... em... working directly under him on the WMF account there. Mystery solved. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)
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thekohser Paid editing Eva Destruction
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"Bec... RMHED
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Are we free an... TungstenCarbide As for Jimbo's comment... I enjoy how in parag... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Interesting ... the third person to become involve... Milton Roe
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That's why Jimmy Wales is such a one-dimensio... Guido den Broeder
Jimbo has kicked it up a notch.
Ah, his 'advo... A Horse With No Name
Also, "Just imagine the disaster for our re... thekohser Oh, Jeez. Shut it down. It's over. Jimbo ju... sbrown
Jimbo just got consecutive supports from:
[b][si... carbuncle
Um, is this the same Sam Blacketer recently embro... Guido den Broeder Unless, of course, you get paid to write a biased ... thekohser Is this comment a joke?
Cedric
Is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title... TungstenCarbide
Is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title... The Wales Hunter Paid editing de facto exists anyway.
Does anyone ... Jon Awbrey I think it's kinda weird that you guys can... Cla68
I think it's kinda weird that you guys can... Jon Awbrey
I think it's kinda weird that you guys can... Cock-up-over-conspiracy I think it's kinda weird that you guys can... Jon Awbrey
I suspect the "under table reference" r... The Joy Ah, Jimbo's response to Rootology is great. :... thekohser And, in typical Wikipedia fashion, when the vote i... thekohser Our young Filipino chess guy who runs Yahoo! A... CharlotteWebb
Okay, so then why are you against the "eve... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Coming soon ... (especially if we purchase wikiped... Milton Roe
[center][img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3348/... Moulton Cock up, why don't you try Photobucket? Maybe... Cock-up-over-conspiracy I don't know Photobucket ...
Of course that i... thekohser Wow... User:Dcoetzee actually gets it. Spot on. Floydsvoid
Wow... User:Dcoetzee actually gets it. Spot on.
... Malleus
What the hell is the problem here?
The problem i... LaraLove
What the hell is the problem here?
The problem ... Malleus
[quote name='Malleus' post='179379' date='Thu 18t... taiwopanfob What the hell is the problem here?
Based on the o... Floydsvoid
It would be interesting indeed if somehow Jimbo c... Cock-up-over-conspiracy The difference between Wikipedia and open-source p... Malleus
What the hell is the problem here?
Based on the ... EricBarbour Based on the open-source experience, professional ... UseOnceAndDestroy By trade I am a programmer. I contribute a lot of... Cock-up-over-conspiracy [b]Wikipedia has a random mob and an objective to ... thekohser Equally amazing is Jimbo's willingness to go ... thekohser I wonder how long before Wikipedia is hosting its ... tarantino
I wonder how long before Wikipedia is hosting its... SarekOfVulcan Meanwhile, crap like Chicagowebmanagement is overl... carbuncle The for-pay articles that have been sent to AFD se... tarantino
The for-pay articles that have been sent to AFD s... Milton Roe
The for-pay articles that have been sent to AFD ... tarantino
[quote name='carbuncle' post='179283' date='Thu 1... tarantino There's a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index... Appleby
the rest of his known accounts were globally bloc... Kato
[quote name='tarantino' post='195285' date='Mon 2... Appleby
Do they have independence? Give examples.
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[quote name='Adambro' post='183708' date='Mon 13t... thekohser
[quote name='Adambro' post='183708' date='Mon 13... thekohser
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... LaraLove
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[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Boun... LaraLove
[quote name='LaraLove' post='183915' date='Tue 14... Eva Destruction
[quote name='LaraLove' post='183915' date='Tue 14... thekohser
Incidentally, this initiative has proved so succe... thekohser So, the Wikipediots try to "nutshell" th... thekohser Jimbo has really honed his skill at deflection on ... The Wales Hunter
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[quote name='thekohser' post='213967' date='Wed 6... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Back in 2007, when Freud Communications was caught... Straightforward
Matthew Freud's grandfather was Sigmund Freud... tarantino
Hmmm. If you look at user:80.169.89.66 on WP it... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Elsewhere, there is Jimmy Wales flatteringly quoti... CharlotteWebb
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/sonitnar... Peter Damian
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It seems certain that the 'friend' that W... Jon Awbrey
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Back in 2007, when Freud Communications was caugh... Somey Jimbo may even 'impregnate' you!
Yes, ... carbuncle
The analogy fails to point out that some people o... thekohser This is delicious, though I'm strangely not fi... thekohser You know, buried in that message is something that... Cock-up-over-conspiracy German COLT Telcom are one of the UKs largest inte... thekohser Consider a summer intern doing Wikipedia editing w... carbuncle
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What're your current keywords?
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What're your current keywords?
How will tha... thekohser
Oh, right--I forgot that you seem not to like me ... EricBarbour
Oh, right--I forgot that you seem not to like me ... thekohser
Do you have some keyword ideas, or no?
Have you... melloden
Oh, right--I forgot that you seem not to like me... Gruntled
or maybe because you just don't like me?
Non... thekohser
or maybe because you just don't like me?
No... melloden
[quote name='Gruntled' post='275875' date='Mon 30... thekohser
Poor Greg, he doesn't even love himself :(
... Somey Well, would it be helpful if all the keywords I ga... Abd Right now, for example, if you do a Google search ... thekohser Take a look at Slide 11 of this research output th... Abd Take a look at [url=http://www.slideshare.net/jant... thekohser With all of the grace of a bison in a crystal shop... The Joy
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I... Kelly Martin So what this tells us is that Jimbo pays no attent... EricBarbour Not I.
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Thank you, Jimbo, for being so completely wrong ... milowent [quote name='thekohser' date='Wed 31st... thekohser Jimbo happens to mention the New York Times' o... thekohser ArbCom twit, Coren, also shows his profound lack o... EricBarbour What is it with Coren and Jimbo and other Wikipedi... thekohser
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Paid editing is a problem for Wikipedia because ... Detective
Paid editing is a problem for Wikipedia because t... iii
Of course, in both cases the contributions were f... Kelly Martin Advocacy editing is essential to Wikipedia's o... Detective
It's simply not permitted to notice that the ...
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