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Commons-hosted Muhammad Images |
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Wikitaka |
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For no reason, Xavexgoem protected the Muhammad RFC "to avoid SPIs", which is not a valid reason for semi-protection. What else does Xavexgoem have on his record?
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jsalsman |
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I used to be for including images until I found out that no contemporary depictions of Muhammad even exist. It's not about aniconism vs. NOTCENSORED, it's that there aren't any actual images of Muhammad. They are all made up, cartoons of someone else. So don't put any in the main article. Anyone who sees an image in the main article will be misled into thinking Muhammad may have looked like that when he didn't. That's completely unencyclopedic. Make a separate [[Depictions of Muhammad]] article and put them all there with a clear statement that they are all bogus in the first sentence.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Thu 5th April 2012, 11:39am) So you used to be enlightened, but then became corrupted by someone's ignorant argument. I realize you're just trying to show your anti-Muslim credentials here, but why would anyone think that argument was "ignorant"? And obviously it's someone else's argument - it's a common-enough position to take on the issue, since it is, in fact, true. Or are you saying that if he doesn't have a brand-spanking-new reason to oppose inclusion of these images, he should just shut up? If so, then I'd have to say that's not very nice. Speaking of which, the only reason anyone even bothers to bring up additional arguments in the first place is because Wikipedians have already rejected the sanest, most rational, and most logical argument there is, which is that including the images is inherently insulting to vast numbers of people, and insulting people is not nice. If you're a legitimate "encyclopedia," you take key cultural sensitivities into account when and if you can. Since there's no requirement that Wikipedia include these images in order to properly cover the subjects of Islam and Mohammed's life, they most certainly can in this case. Of course, they're not a legitimate encyclopedia, so they don't take those sensitivities into account, and people end up having to make these otherwise-unnecessary (but hardly "ignorant") arguments. And that's just how they like it, because hey, moar drama! More attention for us! Wheeeeee! It's the very definition of "internet trolling," and Wikipedia does it routinely.
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Tarc |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 5th April 2012, 7:01pm) QUOTE(Tarc @ Thu 5th April 2012, 11:39am) So you used to be enlightened, but then became corrupted by someone's ignorant argument. I realize you're just trying to show your anti-Muslim credentials here, At first I was like (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) but then (IMG: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/tarc0917/anim/rotfl.gif) Somey, you ignorant prat. I was targeted by the Jayjg Cabal and held up as one of the "anti-Jew" editors for years because I dared to protest various Muslim and Palestine-related articles form becoming mouthpieces for Zionist propaganda. And now I have you who think I'm "anti-Muslim" because I do not want the Wikipedia to bend to their religious sensibilities? What lulz. I think they're all a bunch of prehistoric knuckle-draggers, honestly. "Oh no, no one can work on Sunday!", "oh no, I can't stand anyone to look at my prophet!" Fuck em all. This post has been edited by Tarc:
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 6th April 2012, 12:19pm) Somey, you ignorant prat. I was targeted by the Jayjg Cabal and held up as one of the "anti-Jew" editors for years because I dared to protest various Muslim and Palestine-related articles form becoming mouthpieces for Zionist propaganda. And now I have you who think I'm "anti-Muslim" because I do not want the Wikipedia to bend to their religious sensibilities? What lulz. Well, that's one way of defining "anti-Muslim," I suppose, and nobody is saying you can't be both anti-Zionist and anti-Muslim, or anti-whatever-you-want, all at the same time. (I personally lost count of all the things I'm against, years ago!) All I am saying is, the argument that "these images aren't actually likenesses of Muhammad" is perfectly valid in this context, and far from "ignorant" in any case - and if anything, someone who reflexively supports the idea that people should just do whatever the hell they want no matter who gets offended, or no matter how inappropriate and/or wrong a particular set of images is, is more likely to be "ignorant." I will say, however, that if it were totally up to me, nobody would be allowed to effectively quash free expression solely on the basis of a religious dictat that, given the technological era we now live in, has become nearly impossible for anyone to deal with. But Wikipedia isn't really a bastion of "free expression," it's a bastion of we're-gonna-do-whatever-the-hell-we-want - and while some people might (reflexively) believe otherwise, that just isn't the same thing. QUOTE(Emperor @ Fri 6th April 2012, 1:13pm) Having images of some dude hanging all over every church, school, and hospital is lame. I'll bet Muhammed made the rule just to avoid that.
Well, he was a smart guy - he fully understood that the beards, robes and turbans would someday go out of fashion, in favor of 6-inch platform shoes, metallic-brocade jackets, and Lady Gaga fright-wigs.
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Tarc |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 6th April 2012, 2:30pm) Well, that's one way of defining "anti-Muslim," I suppose, and nobody is saying you can't be both anti-Zionist and anti-Muslim, or anti-whatever-you-want, all at the same time. (I personally lost count of all the things I'm against, years ago!)
I'm anti-asshole, mainly, especially those who seek to ram their beliefs down the throats of non-believers. I don't think they're assholes because they are Muslim or Jewish, that is the difference that seems to be eluding you. QUOTE All I am saying is, the argument that "these images aren't actually likenesses of Muhammad" is perfectly valid in this context, and far from "ignorant" in any case - and if anything, someone who reflexively supports the idea that people should just do whatever the hell they want no matter who gets offended, or no matter how inappropriate and/or wrong a particular set of images is, is more likely to be "ignorant." It is a shit argument borne of desperation. Is there a drive to rid the project of depictions of, say, Cleopatra, Ghengis Khan, or King Richard the III? No, no one is going on a fucking crusade to remove those on a "how do we know he/she really looked like that?" throughout the project. They are trying (and failing, miserably) to do it for the Muhammad article solely because of the religious reasons regarding imagery.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 6th April 2012, 2:45pm) It is a shit argument borne of desperation. So, you're basically here just to defend Wikipedia's worst excesses from those who would dare suggest ways of ameliorating those excesses, then. QUOTE Is there a drive to rid the project of depictions of, say, Cleopatra, Ghengis Khan, or King Richard the III? No, no one is going on a fucking crusade to remove those on a "how do we know he/she really looked like that?" throughout the project. So, the whole idea of iconoclasm (and the historical reasons for it) must be meaningless to you... at least in that case, you're not alone - most people don't really understand the underlying historical rationale. Y'see, back in ancient times, Imperial Roman oppressors used to build huge temples, shrines, and statues to pagan gods, along with elaborate icons and other imagery - and they competed to see who could build the most impressive stuff for centuries, continuing to do it in the Eastern Empire long after the Western Empire crumbled. All of this required a great deal of wealth which they ruthlessly took from the people they conquered, impoverished, and often enslaved. In effect, wealth that should have been used to improve the lives of actual human beings was taken from them and used on religious art, which in turn became a symbol of oppression in itself. That became the root cause of Islam's rejection of idolatry, which continues to this day - and is also found among several other iconoclastic sects throughout that region's history, and even among some heretical Catholic groups that formed in Eastern Europe (and elsewhere) in opposition to the often financially-rapacious central authorities in Rome and Constantinople. In fact, it's also the reason you'll usually see far less artwork in general (not just fewer images of Jesus) in Protestant churches than in Catholic ones - the Reformation rejected excessive Church decor because it embodied Catholic excesses in general, and those excesses were mostly financial, perpetrated at the expense of the people. But I digress... Meanwhile, nobody ever really competed to see who could spend the most ill-gotten wealth on depictions of Cleopatra, Genghis Khan, or Richard III. In their cases, imagery was simply a matter of propaganda - depictions of Cleopatra, for example, have always been more suggestive of a European rather than a North African woman, because European historians wanted to "claim" her in such a way as to deny the idea that an African could be a powerful or even an attractive figure. In other words, institutional racism. Genghis Khan, like Attila the Hun, has been demonized by those same historians as a "barbarian" and a "savage" when, in fact, he was personally nothing of the sort (other than his tendency to show no mercy whatsoever to enemies). And Richard III was depicted as a deformed black-clad hunchback by artists of the Tudor dynasty that overthrew him, when in fact he was almost certainly quite normal-looking. Anyway, long story short, the argument may be "borne of desperation," but it's hardly "shit." Imagery has always been an important means of manipulating popular sentiment, in varying degrees of subtlety. So it's no wonder that Wikipedia is 100-percent on board with using it in the same fashion. That doesn't make it right, however.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Mon 9th April 2012, 11:36am) The way you want this situation to resolve simply isn't going to happen. No amount of bleeding-heart, butthurt faggotry will change that. The images will remain. You misunderstand - I don't want this situation to "resolve" at all; I want for Wikipedia to continue to make stupid, idiotic, and yes, "faggoty" decisions like this until they collapse under the weight of their own insufferable arrogance, stupidity, and short-sightedness. I'm well aware that the images will remain, and putting aside the feelings of a million Muslims, I couldn't really care less. However, you're right in that my butt does hurt at the moment, but that's only because I just dropped a deuce after a big meal last night. I should be OK in about 20 minutes or so, though. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/nuke.gif)
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Tarc |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 9th April 2012, 1:37pm) You misunderstand - I don't want this situation to "resolve" at all;
Yes, you do. Don't word-parse m'boy, it isn't your forté. QUOTE I want for Wikipedia to continue to make stupid, idiotic, and yes, "faggoty" decisions like this until they collapse under the weight of their own insufferable arrogance, stupidity, and short-sightedness. Unfortunately, it isn't any of those things. QUOTE I'm well aware that the images will remain, and putting aside the feelings of a million Muslims, I couldn't really care less. Moar butthurt. The Western world is not obligated to be subservient to a religion's prehistoric beliefs. As I have noted elsewhere, I find it peculiar that those progressive folk who seek to drive Christianity form the place it has long held in the public consciousness (i.e. separation of church and state) on the one hand seem so eager to be ingratiating to Islam on the other. Why is that? QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 9th April 2012, 6:00pm) but really nobody gives a shit what an actual world-renowned scholar of Muhammad images says about this. Why would a Wikipedian, when they can spout off their own ignorant claptrap, which is after all what half of them are there for.
Sometimes us Randys in Boise do have it right, y'know, rather than the ivory tower dwellers.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Tue 10th April 2012, 2:01pm) Don't word-parse m'boy, it isn't your forté. Is this the Monty Python Argument Clinic, now? One person tries to make a series of logical points and the other person just continually says "no it isn't," i.e., the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes? That appears to be your "forté." I'm aware of the arguments in favor of having religiously inflammatory images on Wikimedia sites, and many of them are valid arguments. I agree that Muslims should be less sensitive to things like this, and that in the modern era it's counterproductive to try to impose censorship on other societies by boycotts and threats of violence and the like. It would be nice if religions and their adherents could better adapt to changing times. I don't say the arguments themselves are non-valid; I merely say they're outweighed by the opposing arguments in this case. Wikipedia is not "art" or "science" or even an "encyclopedia." The needs of Wikipedia are not the needs of humanity in general. It's just a website, and the sooner you yourself stop being butthurt about that, the better for you, no?
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Tarc |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 10th April 2012, 6:12pm) QUOTE(Tarc @ Tue 10th April 2012, 2:01pm) Don't word-parse m'boy, it isn't your forté. Is this the Monty Python Argument Clinic, now? One person tries to make a series of logical points and the other person just continually says "no it isn't," Perhaps if that person had actually made a logical argument, your point would be sound. All the anti-image proponents argument boils down to is "it offends" and "consider the Muslim sensibilities". People don't have a right to be free of offense. They are free to remove themselves from situations where things or ideas are present that they may not like. Or they may stay and kindly shut the fuck up.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Wed 11th April 2012, 9:20am) Perhaps if that person had actually made a logical argument, your point would be sound. All the anti-image proponents argument boils down to is "it offends" and "consider the Muslim sensibilities".
People don't have a right to be free of offense. They are free to remove themselves from situations where things or ideas are present that they may not like. Or they may stay and kindly shut the fuck up. That's some solid binary thinking there, Mr. Tarc! Since people don't have a right to be free of offense, then surely we simply must offend them, as surely no other course of action would be logical or appropriate. And if they "remove themselves from the situation," that's even better, because then we can offend them even more - this time without even having to listen to them complain! Allowing people to express their opinions, giving a voice to minority groups, acting as if the term "consensus" is actually meaningful - those inconveniences can now just be swept away like the anachronistic bits of silliness they really are. It's win-win! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Tarc |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 11th April 2012, 3:06pm) QUOTE(Tarc @ Wed 11th April 2012, 9:20am) Perhaps if that person had actually made a logical argument, your point would be sound. All the anti-image proponents argument boils down to is "it offends" and "consider the Muslim sensibilities".
People don't have a right to be free of offense. They are free to remove themselves from situations where things or ideas are present that they may not like. Or they may stay and kindly shut the fuck up. That's some solid binary thinking there, Mr. Tarc! Since people don't have a right to be free of offense, then surely we simply must offend them, as surely no other course of action would be logical or appropriate. A shame, I thought you were smarter than that. But no, you presume that people insist on keeping images in the article for the sole purpose that it offends Muslims, as if we were all a bunch of Koran-burning pastors from Florida.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Wed 11th April 2012, 3:13pm) But no, you presume that people insist on keeping images in the article for the sole purpose that it offends Muslims, as if we were all a bunch of Koran-burning pastors from Florida. I don't presume that Wikipedia users in general insist on it for that reason, though it does seem fairly clear that you insist on it for that reason. Like I've already said, Wikipedia users in general probably insist on it for the same reason they insist on everything else - "We're anonymous, we're on the internet, we don't care who gets hurt, nobody can tell us what to do, we're not going to let anybody tell us what to do." In the process, they happily ignore the fact that Wikipedia is supposed to be a global operation (not just a US/UK operation), it's supposed to operate on the basis of "consensus," it's supposed to be a "charity," and so on. As usual, they're making a hypocritical mockery of their so-called "mission," which as it turns out once again, is simply to do whatever they want, no matter the consequences. For good or ill, real charities don't start riots and armed revolutions, Mr. Tarc - not even by accident. I'd ask "how can you not see this," but the fact is, you do see it, and you either don't care either, or you're getting some sort of big erection out of it and you don't want that to go away just yet. And if anything, your reasons for wanting to keep the images there are actually more honest and well-thought-out than the bogus rationale used by most WP users.
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Tarc |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 11th April 2012, 7:07pm) QUOTE(Tarc @ Wed 11th April 2012, 3:13pm) But no, you presume that people insist on keeping images in the article for the sole purpose that it offends Muslims, as if we were all a bunch of Koran-burning pastors from Florida. I don't presume that Wikipedia users in general insist on it for that reason, though it does seem fairly clear that you insist on it for that reason. Um, no, I have never been a proponent for that reason. Ever. I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it defers to any religious or ideological dogma, and that an article is enhanced by images if they are relevant to the text. By the way, I generally only read the first line of your responses. Save yourself some time and just stop there.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Thu 12th April 2012, 7:34am) I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it defers to any religious or ideological dogma, and that an article is enhanced by images if they are relevant to the text. Finally, cogent arguments! Bravo! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif) However, the second of those two is not really in dispute, and as for the first... I'm afraid that particular slippery-slope goes in two directions. Who gets to decide what is "religious or ideological dogma" and what is... what, fact? Conventional wisdom? Commonly-held opinion? And if we prohibit religious people from trying to influence WP with their "dogma" today, does it stop there, or do we start prohibiting people who hold other forms of belief, like, say, "all races are equal" or "slavery is bad" from trying to influence it too? The fact is, Wikipedia deletes and removes stuff all the time, for all sorts of reasons, and to say it's "crippled" if it does this or that is like saying you can't take a quadriplegic's sunglasses away from him because it will inhibit his ability to play golf. Also, I made an exception for Mr. Proabivouac's post above by approving it myself, rather than waiting for Selina to do it... ehh, mostly because I liked it.
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Tarc |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 12th April 2012, 1:57pm) QUOTE(Tarc @ Thu 12th April 2012, 7:34am) I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it defers to any religious or ideological dogma, and that an article is enhanced by images if they are relevant to the text. Finally, cogent arguments! I have been making that argument for years, not my fault that you're late to the game. A shame too that the Kohsocracy just blitzed our burgeoning discussion over there, as the last point I made was really the heart of the matter. All you can do on this matter is talk talk talk, you lack the ability to actually do. Pity.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 13th April 2012, 9:35am) I have been making that argument for years, not my fault that you're late to the game. Late to what game? You hadn't made those arguments here, and I'll be damned if I'm going to go through dozens of talk-page archives to help support a contrary position. QUOTE A shame too that the Kohsocracy just blitzed our burgeoning discussion over there, as the last point I made was really the heart of the matter. All you can do on this matter is talk talk talk, you lack the ability to actually do. By "do," in italics no less, I assume you mean get on Wikipedia and convince large numbers of people that they're being short-sighted and fighting the wrong battle? Just because I don't want to doesn't mean I lack the ability, though I suppose it's pretty much academic at this point. What you posted on the-forum-that-must-not-be-named was this (hopefully I'm not breaking any laws by posting this): QUOTE That the Western world shouldn't bow to a prehistoric religious precept is such a mind-bogglingly straight-forward notion that "I'm right, you're not" is really all that's needed, chief. And Mr. Hersch replied the same way I might have, though less diplomatically: QUOTE This is just a variation on the familiar "nuke the towel-heads" rant. Muslims are the new Jews. The fact is, the "Western world," which Wikipedia actually does not represent other than to reflect its worst elements, bows to "prehistoric" religious precepts all the time - at least when it suits people to do so. Christianity predates Islam, after all, and Judaism predates almost everything. But if you'd said "the Western world shouldn't bow to an Islamic religious precept," what you would have gained in accuracy you would have lost in sympathy. I do agree that endlessly talking about this is pointless, but as long as I'm in a semi-authoritative position here, I don't feel that we can let this type of argument go unchallenged. (That's not to say I won't die in a car accident tomorrow.) All you have to do is admit that it's the Islamic aspect of this issue that makes it impossible for WP to compromise, irrespective of your own feelings in the matter, and we'd be in complete agreement with no need for further jawing on it.
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Posts in this topic
Wikitaka Commons-hosted Muhammad Images Web Fred
For no reason, Xavexgoem [url=http://en.wikipedia... Tarc
For no reason, Xavexgoem protected the Muhammad R... Web Fred
[quote name='Wikitaka' post='303524' date='Sun 25... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303529' date='Sun 25th M... Web Fred
The RfC is going pretty much as I expected it to... GlassBeadGame
The RfC is going pretty much as I expected it t... Wikitaka What concerns me most is that so many users want W... Web Fred
What concerns me most is that so many users want ... Tarc
The 500,000 strong petition,with a "Wikimani... Somey [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='303536' date='Su... GlassBeadGame
The 500,000 strong petition,with a "Wikiman... Proabivouac
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th M... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th M... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th ... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303587' date='Sun 25th M... GlassBeadGame
and their request was denied.
Yes, by a couple... Selina User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 96 #After SOPA, Muha... Selina Caling people racist in a discussion without any k... Selina (Mod note: Moved the steadily rolling GBGvTarc tra... Mister Die To me the problems arise when people aren't pu... Tarc
To me the problems arise when people aren't p... HRIP7
To me the problems arise when people aren't p... Web Fred
To me the problems arise when people aren't ... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='303656' date='Mon 26th ... Wikitaka Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikipe... Mister Die
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikip... Fusion
"Not censored" doesn't mean "a... Web Fred
"Not censored" doesn't mean ... Mister Die I don't know about you, but I'm interested... Fusion
So the concept that we, as human beings, generall... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='303805' date='Thu 29... Fusion
It doesn't really matter what some people... Web Fred
It doesn't really matter what some people... Web Fred
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikip... Wikitaka
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wiki... Tarc The "images are included to purposefully offe... Web Fred
The "images are included to purposefully off... Ottava I think this is similar to Wikipedia hosting a pic... Proabivouac
I used to be for including images until I found o... Web Fred
I used to be for including images until I found o... Fusion
By all accounts the real Jesus was black.
That i... Web Fred
By all accounts the real Jesus was black.
That ... Bottled_Spider I used to be for including images until I found ou... Detective
the image of him in Western society and culture s... jsalsman You mean you actually thought there could be conte... Bottled_Spider You mean you actually thought there could be conte... Web Fred If you're a legitimate "encyclopedia,... Somey If moslems want to dictate terms then they should ... Web Fred
Mind you, I'm not a Muslim, in fact I don... Mister Die And no, I'm not anti-moslem, at least no more ... Web Fred
And no, I'm not anti-moslem, at least no more... Mister Die The other thing I can't get my head around is ... Web Fred
The other thing I can't get my head around is... HRIP7
[quote name='Somey' post='304006' date='Fri 6th A... Emperor
So, the whole idea of iconoclasm (and the histori... Proabivouac
So, the whole idea of iconoclasm (and the histor... Somey Meaningful ideological reasons for the prohibition... Web Fred
Generally speaking, the early Muslims rejected m... jsalsman ... nobody ever really competed to see who could ... Web Fred
People don't have a right to be free of offen... Fusion
But no, you presume that people insist on keeping... Bottled_Spider I'd ask "how can you not see this," ... Proabivouac
I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it ... HRIP7
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that as... Web Fred
I do agree that endlessly talking about this is ... powercorrupts
[quote name='Somey' post='304192' date='Fri 13th ... Web Fred
[quote name='Somey' post='304192' date='Fri 13th... powercorrupts
[quote name='powercorrupts' post='304209' date='S... Web Fred I've not crossed your path before though, at ... powercorrupts
I've not crossed your path before though, at... Bottled_Spider
And just what do you think is "going on... Zoloft
[quote name='Tarc' post='304174' date='Thu 12th ... Somey I just stuck it on ice. You want I should shove it... powercorrupts
[quote name='Tarc' post='304184' date='Fri 13th A... Fusion
I don't claim to be good at herding cats.
Th... Zoloft
I don't claim to be good at herding cats.
T... Web Fred
Perhaps if that person had actually made a logica... Fusion
Why is it automatically assumed that the minority... Web Fred
And it's not as if the Muslims are that much... Fusion
Practising Christians compared to practising Musl... Web Fred
Practising Christians compared to practising Mus... dtobias
That's some solid binary thinking there, Mr. ... Web Fred
[quote name='Somey' post='304150' date='Wed 11th ... Detective
I was targeted by the Jayjg Cabal and held up as ... HRIP7
So you used to be enlightened, but then became co... Mister Die Jesus is given the "WASP" treatment beca... Web Fred
Jesus is given the "WASP" treatment bec... Bottled_Spider Why don't they just dig up Muhammed's skul... Emperor Having images of some dude hanging all over every ... Mister Die Well the portrait for King Richard III (at least t... Bottled_Spider After giving this most difficult of subjects consi... Emperor "blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? Wh... Tarc
"blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? W... powercorrupts
"blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? ... Emperor
zoloft tar-pitted (or whatever their equivalent i... Michaeldsuarez
the other forum.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw... Emperor I'm kind of offended by Piss Christ. How do I... Tarc All you have to do is admit that it's the Isla... HRIP7
Y'know, whether [i]they don't want to loo... Somey [quote name='Tarc' post='304199' date='Sat 14th Ap... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='304200' date='Fri 13th ... Tarc One of the most sensible Wikipedians around, [wpus... jsalsman With Muhammad, there isn't a debate or questio... Tarc
With Muhammad, there isn't a debate or questi... Web Fred
[quote name='jsalsman' post='304237' date='Sun 15... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304199' date='Sat 14th A... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='304200' date='Sat 14th ... Proabivouac
No one argued that there shouldn't be [i]any ... Tarc
The problem is with people who come to the articl... HRIP7
This ignores the reality that Muslims who are o... Tarc
[font=Britannic Bold][size=27][i][color=#CC0000]O... The Joy
[font=Britannic Bold][size=27][i][color=#CC0000]... Web Fred
That's a very close-minded view. We all make... The Joy
[quote name='The Joy' post='304490' date='Sun 22n... Sololol
[quote name='The Joy' post='304490' date='Sun 22... Tarc Are the images to actually educate or say "sc... nableezy All of the images in the article relate to the tex... Tarc
All of the images in the article relate to the te... nableezy Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included wi... Web Fred
Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included w... Tarc
Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included w... The Joy
[quote name='nableezy' post='304746' date='Wed 2n... nableezy
Can I have an English translation for this fuckw... Tarc Isn't that putting the cart before the horse, ... nableezy
[quote name='nableezy' post='304785' date='Sat 5t... Tarc
...
Seriously Nab, go be a nigger somewhere els... Somey (And as my racial makeup is best described as ... Web Fred
(And as my racial makeup is best described as ... Somey Moderators are over-rated anyway.
You'd rather... Web Fred
Moderators are over-rated anyway.
You'd rathe... Somey The sort of person I am is one who supports free s... Web Fred
The sort of person I am is one who supports free ... Web Fred
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6t... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304805' date='Mon 7th Ma... nableezy
...
So I am, paraphrasing my man, the one hangin... Web Fred
Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.
And... Eppur si muove
Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.
An... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='304831' date='Wed 9t... Somey There's no such thing as "good suppressio... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='304855' date='Thu 10... Somey Errr, could you point out where I left a racist co... Web Fred
Errr, could you point out where I left a racist c... Emperor
And unlike the person(s) doing the bird-flipping,... Tarc And unlike the person(s) doing the bird-flipping, ... Eppur si muove
It depends on who's preventing the expressi... Tarc
when you can't actually respond to the points... Web Fred
I'm generally supportive of efforts to rid t... Somey Let me know when you actually get around to making... Tarc And of course, you're not even denying this.
... Retrospect
I am a nigg[b][i]a. Nableezy is acting like a ni... The Joy
So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? ... GlassBeadGame
I'm channeling GBG.
I no longer need to ... The Joy
I'm channeling GBG.
I no longer need to... Emperor
[quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='304609' date='T... dtobias
The range of opinion here spans from somewhat rac... Somey What the fuck does any opinion regarding religious... Fusion
Because Muslims are overwhelmingly Middle-Eastern... Tarc The range of opinion here spans from somewhat raci... dtobias
I haven't lost a thing, especially to an igno... Tarc
I haven't lost a thing, especially to an ign... Somey ...wringing their hands over something that has no... Web Fred
...wringing their hands over something that has n... Fusion
In your opinion, is this image racist?
If I may ... Web Fred
GBG, serious question. In your opinion, is this... Ottava
The range of opinion here spans from somewhat rac... Tarc
That's a very close-minded view. We all make... Somey The "because we can" argument has been t... Tarc
The "because we can" argument has been ... Proabivouac
Caterwauling from a distance when you refuse to p... Somey Caterwauling from a distance when you refuse to pa... Detective
The "because we can" argument has been ... Tarc
[quote name='Somey' post='304520' date='Mon 23rd ... HRIP7
[font=Britannic Bold][size=27][i][color=#CC0000]... Zoloft My admittedly ignorant opinion-Wikipedia should al... powercorrupts
My admittedly ignorant opinion-Wikipedia should a... Web Fred
Oh and I no longer herd cats. I crate them. It... Text
==Islam in video games==
==Islam in anime==
==Is... The Joy Couldn't the images be "collapsible... powercorrupts
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... The Joy
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... Text
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... dtobias Amnesty International is criticizing Egypt for sen... dtobias I think all religion is supertitious nonsense, wit... Text
Glass probably doesn't get that most of this... Somey I think all religion is supertitious nonsense, wit... dtobias GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over an... Somey GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over an... Emperor
GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over a... GlassBeadGame Overall, your collective responses have been benea... GlassBeadGame Delete please, if anyone still can. I quoted mys... dtobias
Overall, your collective responses have been bene... Web Fred
Overall, your collective responses have been bene... dtobias You know, you sound just like homophobes do when t... The Joy I've only meet one Muslim and that was while I... Mister Die Does anyone have access to Britannica, World Book,... HRIP7
I've only meet one Muslim and that was while ... Web Fred Can anyone tell me WHY the Islamic belief structur... Emperor Ah the classic "you're dumber than cat po... Emperor I'm uncomfortable with anyone using that word,... dtobias Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing ... Web Fred
Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing... Eppur si muove
Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressin... GlassBeadGame So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Go... RMHED
So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? G... Emperor WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted h... The Joy
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted ... Alison
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted ... Fusion
Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watc... Web Fred
Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like wat... The Joy
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted... The Joy F67JhKT5bxU
YzRbC7lQ-EQ&feature=related EricBarbour Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. Th... Web Fred
Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. T... The Joy
Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. T... dtobias
Edit: Wha....? Wiki-pediocracy without the hyphe... Somey I'd argue the opposite, that Muslim civilizati... dtobias
I guess if I had to come up with an analogy, it w... The Joy I feel like people are tip-toeing around this, but... Emperor
It's a dark and morbid hypothetical, but one ... Tarc
I feel like people are tip-toeing around this, bu... Michaeldsuarez
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6t... Web Fred
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6... The Joy
[quote name='Tarc' post='304805' date='Mon 7th Ma... Emperor
Have you explained to Fae that, in March 2012, th... Web Fred
I'm pretty sure Selina doesn't think you... Retrospect
I'm pretty sure Selina doesn't think you... TungstenCarbide
... a Wild West environment (the British equivale... Tarc
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6... Fusion
Oh, has all of this taken place here? It seems t...
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