|
Commons-hosted Muhammad Images |
|
|
Wikitaka |
|
New Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 24
Joined:
Member No.: 76,720
|
For no reason, Xavexgoem protected the Muhammad RFC "to avoid SPIs", which is not a valid reason for semi-protection. What else does Xavexgoem have on his record?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies
Tarc |
|
Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined:
Member No.: 5,309
|
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 13th April 2012, 6:25pm) All you have to do is admit that it's the Islamic aspect of this issue that makes it impossible for WP to compromise, irrespective of your own feelings in the matter, and we'd be in complete agreement with no need for further jawing on it.
Y'know, whether they don't want to look at pictures of their prophet has never really been the issue. What puts the piss in my Cheerios is when they condemn the fact that the images are available period. That is what crosses into "tough shit" territory. QUOTE(Michaeldsuarez @ Fri 13th April 2012, 7:40pm) Let's dub it "TOF".
I've been partial to the "Kohsocracy", since the splinter group thing was largely a product of his infantile ego. QUOTE(Emperor @ Fri 13th April 2012, 8:12pm) I'm kind of offended by Piss Christ. How do I get that taken off Wikipedia? Do you have any self-awareness of how much of a dumbass troll you are, or are we dealing with a bit of a Dunning–Kruger here, chief?
|
|
|
|
HRIP7 |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 483
Joined:
Member No.: 17,020
|
QUOTE(Tarc @ Sat 14th April 2012, 4:54am) Y'know, whether they don't want to look at pictures of their prophet has never really been the issue. What puts the piss in my Cheerios is when they condemn the fact that the images are available period. That is what crosses into "tough shit" territory.
You've never progressed beyond the reactionary position of wanting, nay, needing to be contrary.
|
|
|
|
Tarc |
|
Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined:
Member No.: 5,309
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sat 14th April 2012, 12:43am) QUOTE(Tarc @ Sat 14th April 2012, 4:54am) Y'know, whether they don't want to look at pictures of their prophet has never really been the issue. What puts the piss in my Cheerios is when they condemn the fact that the images are available period. That is what crosses into "tough shit" territory.
You've never progressed beyond the reactionary position of wanting, nay, needing to be contrary. Not just for the sake of being contrary, no. This isn't a Monty Python sketch. I find fault with milquetoast permissiveness, with people who just can't say "no". The Wikipedia people can say "no, we're going to keep the Muhammad article as-is" and life will go on. Negotiation and compromise and endless bickering can only be taken for so long before someone with balls gets up and says "shut the fuck up, this is how we're going to do it". Its ok to say "no" sometimes; hell my wife says it all the time. (" rimshot") This post has been edited by Tarc:
|
|
|
|
HRIP7 |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 483
Joined:
Member No.: 17,020
|
QUOTE(Tarc @ Sun 15th April 2012, 6:55am) QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sat 14th April 2012, 12:43am) QUOTE(Tarc @ Sat 14th April 2012, 4:54am) Y'know, whether they don't want to look at pictures of their prophet has never really been the issue. What puts the piss in my Cheerios is when they condemn the fact that the images are available period. That is what crosses into "tough shit" territory.
You've never progressed beyond the reactionary position of wanting, nay, needing to be contrary. Not just for the sake of being contrary, no. This isn't a Monty Python sketch. I find fault with milquetoast permissiveness, with people who just can't say "no". The Wikipedia people can say "no, we're going to keep the Muhammad article as-is" and life will go on. Negotiation and compromise and endless bickering can only be taken for so long before someone with balls gets up and says "shut the fuck up, this is how we're going to do it". Its ok to say "no" sometimes; hell my wife says it all the time. (" rimshot") The problem is with people who come to the article and don't know fuck all, can't tell the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni, nor between the light verse and a limerick, except they know that "muslims don't like figurative images of Muhammad". So it's simple: stick in lots of them. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/obliterate.gif) Encyclopedia done. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif) No one argued that there shouldn't be any figurative images of Muhammad in the article. They're important enough to have a couple. Just that there were so many, it was really quite like having three images of Jesus as a woman in the article on Jesus.
|
|
|
|
Tarc |
|
Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined:
Member No.: 5,309
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Tue 17th April 2012, 12:15am) The problem is with people who come to the article and don't know fuck all, can't tell the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni, nor between the light verse and a limerick, except they know that "muslims don't like figurative images of Muhammad".
That is pretty much the golden definition of a bleeding-heart, the same that wring their hands over nativity scenes in the town square. Those sorts of people can go fuck themselves. QUOTE No one argued that there shouldn't be any figurative images of Muhammad in the article. You missed many sterling arguments made by Hans Adler and Ludwigs2, both of whom wanted none, with an honorable mention for Elonka who expected the article to retain a few images but would've been fine with zero. QUOTE They're important enough to have a couple. Just that there were so many, it was really quite like having three images of Jesus as a woman in the article on Jesus.
This ignores the reality that Muslims who are offended are offended by any image inclusion. Retaining 2-3 won't mollify them, it'll only make those (the arguers) feel better in a "well at least we did something" kinda way. If an act of appeasement is going to accomplish nothing, then there's really little point in doing it.
|
|
|
|
HRIP7 |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 483
Joined:
Member No.: 17,020
|
QUOTE(Tarc @ Tue 17th April 2012, 2:07pm) QUOTE They're important enough to have a couple. Just that there were so many, it was really quite like having three images of Jesus as a woman in the article on Jesus.
This ignores the reality that Muslims who are offended are offended by any image inclusion. Retaining 2-3 won't mollify them, it'll only make those (the arguers) feel better in a "well at least we did something" kinda way. If an act of appeasement is going to accomplish nothing, then there's really little point in doing it. This ignores the reality that I was not trying to prevent offence to Muslims. I was simply trying to get Wikipedia to present the topic in a normal, middle-of-the-road manner; i.e. without shouting:
|
|
|
|
Tarc |
|
Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined:
Member No.: 5,309
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sat 21st April 2012, 12:16pm) Oy, we heard you don't like images.
Guess what?
We put LOADS OF THEM in!
Because we can.â„¢
The "because we can" argument has been thoroughly debunked. Stop being such a fuckwit. QUOTE(The Joy @ Sat 21st April 2012, 11:47pm) Did anyone ever put forward my suggestion? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) It would be a form of a disclaimer, which the Wikipedia did away with a long time ago. If something offends you, then fuck off and don't look at it. Btw, Snape killed Dumbledore. And Katniss marries Peeta.
|
|
|
|
The Joy |
|
I am a millipede! I am amazing!
Group: Members
Posts: 3,839
Joined:
From: The Moon
Member No.: 982
|
QUOTE(Tarc @ Sun 22nd April 2012, 12:39am) QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sat 21st April 2012, 12:16pm) Oy, we heard you don't like images.
Guess what?
We put LOADS OF THEM in!
Because we can.â„¢
The "because we can" argument has been thoroughly debunked. Stop being such a fuckwit. QUOTE(The Joy @ Sat 21st April 2012, 11:47pm) Did anyone ever put forward my suggestion? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) It would be a form of a disclaimer, which the Wikipedia did away with a long time ago. If something offends you, then fuck off and don't look at it. Btw, Snape killed Dumbledore. And Katniss marries Peeta. That's a very close-minded view. We all make compromises every day. This ultra-libertarian "information must free" view you and other Wikimedians have does not work. It will not work. Wikipedia and its sister projects will suffer in time for this stance. I doubt Wikimedia's major donors will be pleased knowing that Wikipedia is maintained by a community that absolutely refused to reasonably compromise and cooperate. A simple, technical solution can satisfy both sides, yet you and others would fight to the (hopefully proverbial) death to prevent that. Wikipedia relies ultimately on readers, the majority of which do not subscribe to your views. Are you prepared for an eternal wiki-war of attrition? The arguments for and against these images have gone on for centuries. In the end, this wiki-war and others like them will tear apart Wikipedia. The reading public and the donors will not approve. You will have nothing. All because no one was willing to compromise.
|
|
|
|
The Joy |
|
I am a millipede! I am amazing!
Group: Members
Posts: 3,839
Joined:
From: The Moon
Member No.: 982
|
QUOTE(Web Fred @ Sun 22nd April 2012, 4:22am) QUOTE(The Joy @ Sun 22nd April 2012, 6:08am) That's a very close-minded view. We all make compromises every day.
So why should it be WP making the compromise? Why can't the offended Muslim just switch off images in his/her browser and understand that not everyone shares their beliefs? I've become so jaded with the Wikipedia "community" that I always assume the worst with their decisions. Are the images to actually educate or say "screw you!" to Muslims? I would say the latter. On an individual level, I can understand and admire some Wikipedians. But as a group, it is a great beast. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I doubt my compromise would work. Fundamentalists on both sides would hate it. On one side, the images would be under "draconian disclaimers" and, on the other side, the images would still be there. You can't win. Good gravy, I'm channeling GBG. I made myself sad.
|
|
|
|
Posts in this topic
Wikitaka Commons-hosted Muhammad Images Web Fred
For no reason, Xavexgoem [url=http://en.wikipedia... Tarc
For no reason, Xavexgoem protected the Muhammad R... Web Fred
[quote name='Wikitaka' post='303524' date='Sun 25... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303529' date='Sun 25th M... Web Fred
The RfC is going pretty much as I expected it to... GlassBeadGame
The RfC is going pretty much as I expected it t... Wikitaka What concerns me most is that so many users want W... Web Fred
What concerns me most is that so many users want ... Tarc
The 500,000 strong petition,with a "Wikimani... Somey [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='303536' date='Su... GlassBeadGame
The 500,000 strong petition,with a "Wikiman... Proabivouac
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th M... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th M... GlassBeadGame
[quote name='Tarc' post='303567' date='Sun 25th ... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303587' date='Sun 25th M... GlassBeadGame
and their request was denied.
Yes, by a couple... Selina User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 96 #After SOPA, Muha... Selina Caling people racist in a discussion without any k... Selina (Mod note: Moved the steadily rolling GBGvTarc tra... Mister Die To me the problems arise when people aren't pu... Tarc
To me the problems arise when people aren't p... HRIP7
To me the problems arise when people aren't p... Web Fred
To me the problems arise when people aren't ... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='303656' date='Mon 26th ... Wikitaka Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikipe... Mister Die
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikip... Fusion
"Not censored" doesn't mean "a... Web Fred
"Not censored" doesn't mean ... Mister Die I don't know about you, but I'm interested... Fusion
So the concept that we, as human beings, generall... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='303805' date='Thu 29... Fusion
It doesn't really matter what some people... Web Fred
It doesn't really matter what some people... Web Fred
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wikip... Wikitaka
Why not use the Muhammad cartoon? Remember, Wiki... Tarc The "images are included to purposefully offe... Web Fred
The "images are included to purposefully off... Ottava I think this is similar to Wikipedia hosting a pic... jsalsman I used to be for including images until I found ou... Proabivouac
I used to be for including images until I found o... Web Fred
I used to be for including images until I found o... Fusion
By all accounts the real Jesus was black.
That i... Web Fred
By all accounts the real Jesus was black.
That ... Bottled_Spider I used to be for including images until I found ou... Detective
the image of him in Western society and culture s... jsalsman You mean you actually thought there could be conte... Bottled_Spider You mean you actually thought there could be conte... Tarc
I used to be for including images until I found o... Somey So you used to be enlightened, but then became cor... Web Fred If you're a legitimate "encyclopedia,... Somey If moslems want to dictate terms then they should ... Web Fred
Mind you, I'm not a Muslim, in fact I don... Mister Die And no, I'm not anti-moslem, at least no more ... Web Fred
And no, I'm not anti-moslem, at least no more... Mister Die The other thing I can't get my head around is ... Web Fred
The other thing I can't get my head around is... HRIP7
[quote name='Somey' post='304006' date='Fri 6th A... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='303985' date='Thu 5th Ap... Somey Somey, you ignorant prat. I was targeted by the J... Tarc
Well, that's one way of defining "anti-M... Somey It is a shit argument borne of desperation.
So, yo... Emperor
So, the whole idea of iconoclasm (and the histori... Proabivouac
So, the whole idea of iconoclasm (and the histor... Somey Meaningful ideological reasons for the prohibition... Web Fred
Generally speaking, the early Muslims rejected m... jsalsman ... nobody ever really competed to see who could ... Tarc Anyway, long story short...
Rule 11, Somey. Rul... Somey The way you want this situation to resolve simply ... Tarc
You misunderstand - I don't [i]want this situ... Somey Don't word-parse m'boy, it isn't your ... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304127' date='Tue 10th A... Web Fred
People don't have a right to be free of offen... Somey Perhaps if that person had actually made a logical... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304145' date='Wed 11th A... Fusion
But no, you presume that people insist on keeping... Somey But no, you presume that people insist on keeping ... Bottled_Spider I'd ask "how can you not see this," ... Tarc
But no, you presume that people insist on keeping... Proabivouac
I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it ... HRIP7
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that as... Somey I believe that an encyclopedia is crippled if it d... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304174' date='Thu 12th A... Somey I have been making that argument for years, not my... Web Fred
I do agree that endlessly talking about this is ... powercorrupts
[quote name='Somey' post='304192' date='Fri 13th ... Web Fred
[quote name='Somey' post='304192' date='Fri 13th... powercorrupts
[quote name='powercorrupts' post='304209' date='S... Web Fred I've not crossed your path before though, at ... powercorrupts
I've not crossed your path before though, at... Bottled_Spider
And just what do you think is "going on... Zoloft
[quote name='Tarc' post='304174' date='Thu 12th ... Somey I just stuck it on ice. You want I should shove it... powercorrupts
[quote name='Tarc' post='304184' date='Fri 13th A... Fusion
I don't claim to be good at herding cats.
Th... Zoloft
I don't claim to be good at herding cats.
T... Web Fred
Perhaps if that person had actually made a logica... Fusion
Why is it automatically assumed that the minority... Web Fred
And it's not as if the Muslims are that much... Fusion
Practising Christians compared to practising Musl... Web Fred
Practising Christians compared to practising Mus... dtobias
That's some solid binary thinking there, Mr. ... Web Fred
[quote name='Somey' post='304150' date='Wed 11th ... Detective
I was targeted by the Jayjg Cabal and held up as ... HRIP7
So you used to be enlightened, but then became co... Mister Die Jesus is given the "WASP" treatment beca... Web Fred
Jesus is given the "WASP" treatment bec... Bottled_Spider Why don't they just dig up Muhammed's skul... Emperor Having images of some dude hanging all over every ... Mister Die Well the portrait for King Richard III (at least t... Bottled_Spider After giving this most difficult of subjects consi... Emperor "blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? Wh... Tarc
"blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? W... powercorrupts
"blitzed our burgeoning discussion"? ... Emperor
zoloft tar-pitted (or whatever their equivalent i... Michaeldsuarez
the other forum.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw... Somey [quote name='Tarc' post='304199' date='Sat 14th Ap... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='304200' date='Fri 13th ... Tarc One of the most sensible Wikipedians around, [wpus... jsalsman With Muhammad, there isn't a debate or questio... Tarc
With Muhammad, there isn't a debate or questi... Web Fred
[quote name='jsalsman' post='304237' date='Sun 15... Proabivouac
No one argued that there shouldn't be [i]any ... Sololol
[quote name='The Joy' post='304490' date='Sun 22... Tarc Are the images to actually educate or say "sc... nableezy All of the images in the article relate to the tex... Tarc
All of the images in the article relate to the te... nableezy Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included wi... Web Fred
Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included w... Tarc
Um, no, it doesn't. The image was included w... The Joy
[quote name='nableezy' post='304746' date='Wed 2n... nableezy
Can I have an English translation for this fuckw... Tarc Isn't that putting the cart before the horse, ... nableezy
[quote name='nableezy' post='304785' date='Sat 5t... Tarc
...
Seriously Nab, go be a nigger somewhere els... Somey (And as my racial makeup is best described as ... Web Fred
(And as my racial makeup is best described as ... Somey Moderators are over-rated anyway.
You'd rather... Web Fred
Moderators are over-rated anyway.
You'd rathe... Somey The sort of person I am is one who supports free s... Web Fred
The sort of person I am is one who supports free ... Web Fred
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6t... Tarc
[quote name='Tarc' post='304805' date='Mon 7th Ma... nableezy
...
So I am, paraphrasing my man, the one hangin... Web Fred
Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.
And... Eppur si muove
Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.
An... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='304831' date='Wed 9t... Somey There's no such thing as "good suppressio... Web Fred
[quote name='Web Fred' post='304855' date='Thu 10... Somey Errr, could you point out where I left a racist co... Web Fred
Errr, could you point out where I left a racist c... Emperor
And unlike the person(s) doing the bird-flipping,... Tarc And unlike the person(s) doing the bird-flipping, ... Eppur si muove
It depends on who's preventing the expressi... Tarc
when you can't actually respond to the points... Web Fred
I'm generally supportive of efforts to rid t... Somey Let me know when you actually get around to making... Tarc And of course, you're not even denying this.
... Retrospect
I am a nigg[b][i]a. Nableezy is acting like a ni... The Joy
So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? ... The Joy
I'm channeling GBG.
I no longer need to... Emperor
[quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='304609' date='T... Somey What the fuck does any opinion regarding religious... Fusion
Because Muslims are overwhelmingly Middle-Eastern... Tarc The range of opinion here spans from somewhat raci... dtobias
I haven't lost a thing, especially to an igno... Tarc
I haven't lost a thing, especially to an ign... Somey ...wringing their hands over something that has no... Web Fred
...wringing their hands over something that has n... Fusion
In your opinion, is this image racist?
If I may ... Web Fred
GBG, serious question. In your opinion, is this... Ottava
The range of opinion here spans from somewhat rac... Tarc
That's a very close-minded view. We all make... Somey The "because we can" argument has been t... Tarc
The "because we can" argument has been ... Proabivouac
Caterwauling from a distance when you refuse to p... Somey Caterwauling from a distance when you refuse to pa... Detective
The "because we can" argument has been ... Tarc
[quote name='Somey' post='304520' date='Mon 23rd ... HRIP7
[font=Britannic Bold][size=27][i][color=#CC0000]... Zoloft My admittedly ignorant opinion-Wikipedia should al... powercorrupts
My admittedly ignorant opinion-Wikipedia should a... Web Fred
Oh and I no longer herd cats. I crate them. It... Text
==Islam in video games==
==Islam in anime==
==Is... The Joy Couldn't the images be "collapsible... powercorrupts
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... The Joy
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... Text
Couldn't the images be "collapsible... dtobias Amnesty International is criticizing Egypt for sen... dtobias I think all religion is supertitious nonsense, wit... Text
Glass probably doesn't get that most of this... Somey I think all religion is supertitious nonsense, wit... dtobias GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over an... Somey GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over an... Emperor
GlassBeadGame has a one-note tune he plays over a... GlassBeadGame Overall, your collective responses have been benea... GlassBeadGame Delete please, if anyone still can. I quoted mys... dtobias
Overall, your collective responses have been bene... Web Fred
Overall, your collective responses have been bene... dtobias You know, you sound just like homophobes do when t... The Joy I've only meet one Muslim and that was while I... Mister Die Does anyone have access to Britannica, World Book,... HRIP7
I've only meet one Muslim and that was while ... Web Fred Can anyone tell me WHY the Islamic belief structur... Emperor Ah the classic "you're dumber than cat po... Emperor I'm uncomfortable with anyone using that word,... dtobias Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing ... Web Fred
Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing... Eppur si muove
Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressin... GlassBeadGame So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Go... RMHED
So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? G... Emperor WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted h... The Joy
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted ... Alison
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted ... Fusion
Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watc... Web Fred
Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like wat... The Joy
WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted... The Joy F67JhKT5bxU
YzRbC7lQ-EQ&feature=related EricBarbour Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. Th... Web Fred
Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. T... The Joy
Tarc, Somey, etc, you're wasting your time. T... dtobias
Edit: Wha....? Wiki-pediocracy without the hyphe... Somey I'd argue the opposite, that Muslim civilizati... dtobias
I guess if I had to come up with an analogy, it w... The Joy I feel like people are tip-toeing around this, but... Emperor
It's a dark and morbid hypothetical, but one ... Tarc
I feel like people are tip-toeing around this, bu... Michaeldsuarez
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6t... Web Fred
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6... The Joy
[quote name='Tarc' post='304805' date='Mon 7th Ma... Emperor
Have you explained to Fae that, in March 2012, th... Web Fred
I'm pretty sure Selina doesn't think you... Retrospect
I'm pretty sure Selina doesn't think you... TungstenCarbide
... a Wild West environment (the British equivale... Tarc
[quote name='nableezy' post='304795' date='Sun 6... Fusion
Oh, has all of this taken place here? It seems t...
2 Pages 1 2 >
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| |