Durova_and_Jehochman Arb-com case is opened!, ...the supersekret mailing list is part of the case..... Options

Pop that popcorn and take your seats!


Private Musings brings up the not-so-secret "secret mailing list" here....

Wikidiots are already trying to put out the flames...

Statement by uninvolved party Stephan Schulz (talk)

I would suggest to withdraw this request for now, or alternatively for the ArbCom to reject it without prejudice. There is a very active and productive RfC pertinent to this topic, and an action by ArbCom would be premature at this time. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Statement by uninvolved party Alecmconroy

I concur-- insofar as this Arbcom applies to Durova, it's entirely unnecessary. She's an "Administrators open to recall" whose set her limit at 5 users. The count that have requested recall/desysop now stands at I believe 20+, so a new RFA is a certainty.

To file an Arbcom case now, demanding a forcible desysop, is to Assume Bad Faith, in essence "expecting her to reneg on her recall promise". There is no reason whatsoever to suspect this-- she'll agree to a new RFA, and in all likelyhood she'll pass it too. I'd suggest withdrawing the RFAr, or at least withdrawing her from it. --Alecmconroy (talk) 13:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Now, I don't believe that they're going to accept this for a minute....but it could get, um, interesting even if they don't.....

I think that Greg needs to add "FREE DUROVA!" items to his shop!

This post has been edited by the fieryangel:

Forgive me if I don't hyperlink properly- I'm new and still working the forum out.

Am I the only one that doesn't believe a word of this? (Not Durova herself- the whole thing.)

1. Her actions were ok'ed by some of ArbCom and the Foundation before she did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173731864

2. WP:Secret has been brought in ok the back of this 'mistake' (which was ok'ed by them.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SECRET

3. It may not look like it at the moment, but this policy is going to mean the clique can do all this, and more, invasions of people's privacy behind the scenes again.

Woops. How convenient.

I also thing Durova may be able to come back as a sysop when she wants- she has enough fans. If she has given up permanently she agreed to it beforehand due to her own circumstances or stuuff we don't know, IMHO.

Then again maybe I credit them all with too much intelligence lol (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

I also thing Durova may be able to come back as a sysop when she wants- she has enough fans. If she has given up permanently she agreed to it beforehand due to her own circumstances or stuuff we don't know, IMHO.

Then again maybe I credit them all with too much intelligence lol (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

She'll be re-annointed as admin, to be sure.

And she may go on wild rampages again, as many of her detractors will grow up, graduate, and develop real, offline lives. Most of her supporters are grown up net-nicks, and will stay.

But this will never entirely go away.

JeHochman must be upset. His real name is tied to this scandal, as is his consulting firm. It would be logical for him to take huge distance from her.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Hmm, she's not taking this very well at all. Off of her arbitration tips page, she mentions this case in her "experience" section :

26. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Durova and Jehochman (ongoing) Ate crow. Resigned administratorship..

26. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Durova and Jehochman (ongoing) Ate crow. Resigned administratorship..

I didn't see the crow pie, but apparently she views her resignation thus. Note to Durova: If you'd really have eaten crow earlier multiple times, you'd not have ever had to resign.

Question: Why is nothing being mentioned about JeHochman in this Durova and Jehochman/Proposed decision page? They are handling him as if he were 14 years old and not capable of being judged for his miscreant actions. His name is on that Arbcom case for a reason. And despite having acted like a 14 year old, he's at least 27 years old, and able to stand accused for his actions.

Do they view his jettisoning her as mentor as a plea bargain? Give me a break.

I'm no Durova fan, but this sucks.

(IMG:http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/images/OB-AI327_Jan_Br_20070314112236.jpg)
Much like "Marsha Marsha Marsha" it is "Durova Durova Durova". Where is any criticism towards JeHochman? He was not an administrator, sure. But he's not a child, and has to share some responsibility for this "joint Arbcom case", especially for his nifty erasures of any criticism towards her, which really was obnoxious. And obvious flouting of the rules. Does he get off scott-free, as a mentoree of another admin? Please.

Also, Durova's not auto-receiving her Sysop priviliges anytime soon. She'll have to go via normal channels to reapply.

Durova's sysop access

4) Durova gave up her sysop access under controversial circumstances and must get it back through normal channels.

Support:

1. Mackensen (talk) 18:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
2. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 18:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
3. James F. (talk) 18:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
4. Kirill 19:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
5. FloNight♥♥♥ 21:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
6. Fred Bauder (talk) 01:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
7. jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Oppose:

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

When the going got rough, he abandoned her:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173482886
(with subsequent modifications)

He is not aware of this yet, but I have stopped taking advice from Durova, my former admin coach. In fact, I have accepted [[User:Physchim62]]'s offer to provide new admin training, and [[User:El C]] has also agreed to provide guidance on request.

I guess grovelling before ArbCom is what passes for character on WP nowadays. No wonder they don't like Giano.

When the going got rough, he abandoned her:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173482886
(with subsequent modifications)

He is not aware of this yet, but I have stopped taking advice from Durova, my former admin coach. In fact, I have accepted [[User:Physchim62]]'s offer to provide new admin training, and [[User:El C]] has also agreed to provide guidance on request.

I guess grovelling before ArbCom is what passes for character on WP nowadays. No wonder they don't like Giano.

I guess if your balls have been amputated, a REAL MAN isn't like something you like to have around.

GIANO FOR ARBCOM !! (and "!!" I mean with no irony)

He'll never get on that Committee, after telling Jimbo to buzz off, but he should be the popular favorite, if not cult hero.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

When the going got rough, he abandoned her:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=173482886
(with subsequent modifications)

He is not aware of this yet, but I have stopped taking advice from Durova, my former admin coach. In fact, I have accepted [[User:Physchim62]]'s offer to provide new admin training, and [[User:El C]] has also agreed to provide guidance on request.

I guess grovelling before ArbCom is what passes for character on WP nowadays. No wonder they don't like Giano.

I guess if your balls have been amputated, a REAL MAN isn't like something you like to have around.

GIANO FOR ARBCOM !! (and "!!" I mean with no irony)

He'll never get on that Committee, after telling Jimbo to buzz off, but he should be the popular favorite, if not cult hero.

I find it telling that they're pushing this through so quickly....and there has been absolutely no mention of Durova and Jehochman's obvious COI issues, except in the opening statements.

They want this closed as quickly as possible. However, I don't think that it's going away that easily....

I find it telling that they're pushing this through so quickly....and there has been absolutely no mention of Durova and Jehochman's obvious COI issues, except in the opening statements.

They want this closed as quickly as possible. However, I don't think that it's going away that easily....

Sure it will. Durova desysopped, and Jehochman hiding behind another man's skirts Admin.

Done.

The COI and Jeh's bad bad behavior will not come to fore until he practices the naughty again (and again).

Hmm, she's started her Lamento on WikiEn-L, here :

bad sign, IMO. I no longer feel confident that "the system works."

There's an ArbCom election coming up, can you imagine the damage that
would be done to ArbCom's credibility if it were to come out afterward
that members that were up for election were involved in this and their
involvement was known but we weren't told about it before voting?
The secrecy is what's most toxic. Maybe we should start applying
Verifiability outside of just the encyclopedic content.
******
What's toxic here is how quickly some people fall into the same logical
errors I fell prey to, unaware of the irony that they practice exactly the
same faults they criticize.

Confirmation bias is a dangerous thing. Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary evidence.

-Durova

Good points. Too bad you figured this out too late, Miss D.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Yes, like the claim that an administrator is also an Indian bondage expert, someone who likes writing about Jewish scientists and a schoolgirl who likes photographing railway stations, not to mention several other people.

There's an ArbCom election coming up, can you imagine the damage that
would be done to ArbCom's credibility if it were to come out afterward
that members that were up for election were involved in this and their
involvement was known but we weren't told about it before voting?
The secrecy is what's most toxic. Maybe we should start applying
Verifiability outside of just the encyclopedic content.

Yes, let's do.

You start Durova. Tell us who said what, and did what, and let's get clear before the election.