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> JoshuaZ, Stalker Extraordinaire, He's trying to resurrect that redirect
Daniel Brandt
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JoshuaZ is trying to restore that redirect again. I've been waiting for this for almost three weeks. On April 3 he told User:Prodego that he was planning to do this. I have already expanded the hostmask database from 26,000 lines to 33,000 lines in anticipation of this, but now I'm dusting off the IRC logs for January through April.

If the redirect goes through I will reinstall that old IRC search engine. This is not because IRC is interesting — indeed, compared to 2006 the #wikipedia IRC channel is almost tame these days. But it does give me an excuse to add about 700 HTML pages to Wikipedia-Watch. Based on past experience, this will double the overall traffic to my Wikipedia-Watch homepage.

That's because anytime you add 700 pages to a site, and these pages are filled with a wide variety of keyword-rich content that's interesting to web surfers, you get a lot more clicks once that content is indexed by search engines. Moreover, the two links in the footer of each page will go back to my homepage and to hivemind. These links help direct traffic from those who landed on an IRC chat page, and who find themselves wondering what they're looking at. That's a very common question, as you can imagine if you've ever seen about 600 consecutive lines of chat from #wikipedia on IRC. (These 700 files will average about 600 lines of chat each.)

The links in the footer also tend to give more Google juice to the two target pages, although not a whole lot because they're internal links. Do you know why every few words in Wikipedia articles are linked to another Wikipedia article? It's for the Google juice. Same thing here. (A lot of sites do this sort of thing just so that they have pages that can carry their Google ads, but I've never had any ads on any of my sites. I wonder if other sites will scrape my IRC logs? Google sure encourages a lot of pollution on the web, but then Wikipedia has never done anything to stop scrapers either.)

I'm actually looking forward to doing this if that redirect goes through. Wikipedia-Watch in general, and hivemind in particular, deserve more traffic. It's a quid pro quo because if the redirect is reinstalled, the PIR page in Wikipedia — the one with my name on it in seven places — will be getting more traffic too.
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KamrynMatika
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For what it's worth, I've read the email he's spamming around and I'm now pretty much on the fence.. it is a bit complicated and confusing but seemingly plausible. The story about someone having a rootkit on his laptop is a bit far fetched I guess, but it could happen.. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. (I can give a summarised version if anyone is that interested)
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Derktar
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QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Tue 22nd April 2008, 11:15am) *

For what it's worth, I've read the email he's spamming around and I'm now pretty much on the fence.. it is a bit complicated and confusing but seemingly plausible. The story about someone having a rootkit on his laptop is a bit far fetched I guess, but it could happen.. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. (I can give a summarised version if anyone is that interested)

Well please post it here, I would love to see it since the Arb conversation evidence is damning.
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KamrynMatika
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He gave me permission to post this:

QUOTE(Joshua Zelinsky)

The main evidence for my story is as follows:

0) I've been involved with Wikipedia for over two years and been involved
with many other Wikimedia projects. The idea that I would risk this sort of
thing is a bit absurd.

1) The sockpuppeting if it had been done would have been grotesquely stupid;
no attempt was made to hide the IP addresses at all. It would be easy to use
a different browser along with AOL, or dual boot and use a distinct machine
or something like that.

2) The accounts in question did not edit the Seth Finkelstein DRV despite
editing almost every BLP DRV I was involved in. By all accounts there are
two
articles that I think we really screwed up on and should be restored;
Finkelstein and Brandt. Now, if I we're going to sock, why wouldn't I edit
the Seth article? Especially in contrast to the Barbara Schwartz article
where in my comment I explicitly said that I thought that this might be one
where deletion wouldn't be unreasonable and only called for overturning
weakly. On that article, not one but both the accounts in question -Gothnic
and Miles Naismith voted to overturn. However, if there was a rootkit on my
machine then there's a good explanation for what happened: I was away from
home at the time of the most recent Finkelstein DRV. Although I brought my
laptop with me, I had minimal internet access at the time and when I did
have access I generally edited using other computers. So whoever was running
the rootkit did not have the opportunity to edit from my machine there.
(Checkuser confirms that I was away during that DRV).

3) I've been told that none of these accounts edited from a Yale IP address
as far back as the checkuser data goes. Now, given that I frequently edit
from Yale IP addresses why wouldn't these accounts do so as well if they
edited from all other locations that I edit from? There's a simple answer to
this and I'm glad that whoever was doing this overlooked this issue; my
laptop hasn't connected to the Yale network for over a semester. [He
provided a good, extremely plausible reason for this] This detail should be confirmable both by checkuser data looking at user-agent strings.

4) Checkuser has confirmed that all the edits made by these two accounts appear to be coming from a single machine (unfortunately they haven't given me the user-agent data other than to say it was consistent with a single machine using firefox that updated more or less regularly. However, given the times of some of these edits and some of the overlapping IP addresses the only possible machine these could have come from is my laptop.

5) Checkuser has confirmed (I think. They still aren't be very cooperative
in letting me know what they know which hasn't helped in trying to figure
out what happened) that at some of these locations that overlap I've used
other computers as well. The socks haven't.

2,3,4 and 5 are the really important points. They are only reasonably
explainable by the hypothesis that we're dealing with a rootkit on the
laptop, not by sockpuppetry. 2 in particular has a very good explanation
consistent with the rootkit hypothesis and with checkuser data (and if
necessary, credit cards and other receipts that I could supply demonstrating
that I was away). 2 is not easily explainable by the sockpuppetry
hypothesis.

6) Some of the edits made by the alledged socks don't fit my editing
patterns. For example see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ldid=183006529I
always make edits adding in refs to in two steps first adding
<ref>http//whatever. </ref> and then adding a template (this can be easily
verified by looking at my history of edits).


Some fairly private info that confirms point no. 3 has been removed... make of it what you will.
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Moulton
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QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Tue 22nd April 2008, 2:42pm) *
He gave me permission to post this:
QUOTE(Joshua Zelinsky)
The main evidence for my story is as follows:

[Seven suggested reasons for believing the story.]

Kamryn, I recall this observation, from way back...

QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 15th February 2008, 11:29am) *
Joshua Z offers a lot of alternate theories to explain the forensic data, but did he ever come out and unequivocally deny the basic allegations?

If so, I missed his direct denial.

Kamryn, to the best of your knowledge and recollection, did Joshua ever directly deny the allegation? Or did he just provide lotsa good reasons to buy the story (originally suggested by others) as a possible theory to explain the forensic data?

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KamrynMatika
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 22nd April 2008, 8:51pm) *

QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Tue 22nd April 2008, 2:42pm) *
He gave me permission to post this:
QUOTE(Joshua Zelinsky)
The main evidence for my story is as follows:

[Seven suggested reasons for believing the story.]

Kamryn, I recall this observation, from way back...

QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 15th February 2008, 11:29am) *
Joshua Z offers a lot of alternate theories to explain the forensic data, but did he ever come out and unequivocally deny the basic allegations?

If so, I missed his direct denial.

Kamryn, to the best of your knowledge and recollection, did Joshua ever directly deny the allegation? Or did he just provide lotsa good reasons to buy the story (originally suggested by others) as a possible theory to explain the forensic data?


QUOTE(Joshua Zelinsky)

And in regards to Moulton's question let me be clear; I completely deny any
accusations of sockpuppetry. Neither the Gothnic nor Miles Naismith accounts
are mine. Any other reasonable ways of asking the question have the same
response.
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Posts in this topic
Daniel Brandt   JoshuaZ, Stalker Extraordinaire  
ColScott   Look this is a nasally stunted retarded young man ...  
dogbiscuit   His logic is exactly based on that which he compla...  
Kato   Oddly enough, he links to a statement by Daniel Br...  
dogbiscuit   Why is this kid still allowed to demand polls and...  
Somey   There are now some sane observations on the improp...  
dogbiscuit   There are now some sane observations on the impro...  
Somey   Yes, I am sure you could and would do that, but th...  
No one of consequence   Ehhh, this is coming from me, not Daniel... I...  
Moulton   If Joshua deigns to come here, to WR, I'll eng...  
Somey   I'll take my chances. ^_^ Hmm... this was pr...  
dogbiscuit   Ehhh, this is coming from me, not Daniel... I...  
Moulton   I'm really, really tired of JoshuaZ's crap...  
JohnA   If Joshua deigns to come here, to WR, I'll en...  
jorge   If Joshua deigns to come here, to WR, I'll e...  
BobbyBombastic   [b]In particular, I'm thinking it may be time...  
Random832   Besides, one could easily avoid any possibility o...  
Derktar   Looks like a nerve was struck, well in that case.....  
WhispersOfWisdom   Looks like a nerve was struck, well in that case....  
Daniel Brandt   Daniel has a pretty good handle on this one. :...  
Proabivouac   I say the staff should ban Moulton. I strongly d...  
Moulton   Moulton's defense of JoshuaZ is completely rid...  
Random832   Moulton's defense of JoshuaZ is completely ri...  
Milton Roe   Notwithstanding anything else, JZ was not falsely...  
Proabivouac   To my mind, the best outcome for those who wish t...  
Milton Roe   He was convicted in a special court for nobles on...  
Somey   Considering that the chronological ordering of IRC...  
Moulton   [quote name='Moulton' post='95281' date='Tue 22nd ...  
Kato   The point would be for Joshua and I to explore th...  
Moulton   The point would be for Joshua and I to explore the...  
Somey   The point would be for Joshua and I to explore the...  
Kato   I dunno, Mr. Moulton... you may be overstating th...  
KamrynMatika   The story about someone having a rootkit on his l...  
Jon Awbrey   [quote name='Moulton' post='95281' date='Tue 22nd...  
No one of consequence   What would be sensible for JoshuaZ to consider is...  
Alex   Lawrence Cohen has proposed to ban Joshua from the...  
Daniel Brandt   JoshuaZ expressed extreme contempt for me in Augus...  
Jon Awbrey   I love Newyorkbrad's comment in that sooper-s...  
Moulton   [size=3][url=http://moultonlava.blogspot.com/2006/...  
dogbiscuit   [size=3][url=http://moultonlava.blogspot.com/2006...  
Kato   Proposed topic ban of JoshuaZ on the Brandt relate...  
The Wales Hunter   Joshua is now rushing around to deny the socking: ...  
Moulton   I don't know JoshuaZ well enough to form even ...  
dogbiscuit   ...wow! and on to arbcom already, courtesy of ...  
The Wales Hunter   If Majorly (Alex on here) after seeing Joshua...  
Somey   If Majorly (Alex on here) after seeing Joshua...  
dogbiscuit   [quote name='KamrynMatika' post='95293' date='Tue...  
Derktar   Ah Joshua is on here at the moment, why don't ...  
Aloft   I think the damning evidence is the double voting ...  
Random832   Apparently this mystery person can tell the futur...  
jorge   Apparently this mystery person can tell the futu...  
Random832   [quote name='Random832' post='95351' date='Tue 22...  
dogbiscuit   I'm not saying that I believe JoshuaZ's s...  
No one of consequence   He gave me permission to post this: In other...  
Daniel Brandt   In other words, the edits came from my IP address...  
Jon Awbrey   [quote name='No one of consequence' post='95307' ...  
No one of consequence   In other words, the edits came from my IP addres...  
Derktar   [quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='95311' date='Tu...  
Proabivouac   [quote name='No one of consequence' post='95307' ...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   applies to administrators only. Well - there...  
Moulton   And in regards to Moulton's question let me be...  
KamrynMatika   [quote name='KamrynMatika' post='95333' date='Tue...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   For what it's worth, I've read the email ...  
Kato   JoshuaZ claims he cannot reveal the details of why...  
Iamlost   JoshuaZ claims he cannot reveal the details of wh...  
Daniel Brandt   I want to hear about that rootkit. Is it anything ...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   Weak restatement of a weak defence. I can see New...  
jorge   Sorry but this is crazy. The very time we get evid...  
Moulton   Joshua doesn't say what operating system he ru...  
Derktar   Joshua doesn't say what operating system he r...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   Joshua doesn't say what operating system he r...  
Moulton   grep sshd /var/log/auth.log, or similar. On my Ubu...  
Wikileaker   From dear Sydney's inbox:Hi, Josh! I'm...  
KamrynMatika   From dear Sydney's inbox:Hi, Josh! I...  
Jon Awbrey   I know, let's sic Jpgordon∇∆âˆ...  
Jon Awbrey   Now, really, as much fun as it may be letting your...  
KamrynMatika   Now, really, as much fun as it may be letting you...  
Jon Awbrey   Now, really, as much fun as it may be letting yo...  
jorge   Maybe it's just me, but I can think of other ...  
Iamlost   We are talking about JoshuaZ here and he is quite...  
Random832   Maybe it's just me, but I can think of other ...  
KamrynMatika   Maybe it's just me, but I can think of other...  
jorge   Sorry, I was going by a comment by jorge (i think...  
KamrynMatika   Sorry, I was going by a comment by jorge (i thin...  
Random832   Did Runcorn ever actually make a defence? The a...  
thekohser   Based on past experience, this will double the ov...  
Daniel Brandt   [quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='95227' date='Tu...  
Moulton   The forensic evidence (what precious little of it ...  
Somey   The forensic evidence (what precious little of it ...  
Jon Awbrey   The forensic evidence (what precious little of i...  
Moulton   Whether one cleaned out a (suspected) rootkit by r...  
jorge   Whether one cleaned out a (suspected) rootkit by ...  
Moulton   Yes, I mean you'd think he would have been car...  
Poetlister   In the JoshuaZ case, there was clear checkuser evi...  
Moulton   In the JoshuaZ case, there was clear checkuser evi...  
Random832   In the JoshuaZ case, there was clear checkuser ev...  
Moulton   Surely anyone sophisticated enough for the rest of...  
dogbiscuit   Surely anyone sophisticated enough for the rest o...  
Kato   [quote name='Random832' post='95386' date='Tue 22...  
Somey   ...there was a group of Yale students who were wri...  
Daniel Brandt   Here's a second case of Gothnic voting on a Jo...  
Kato   Two cases of double-voting on a Joshua anti-Brand...  
Castle Rock   [quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='95387' date='We...  
Derktar   [quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='95387' date='W...  
No one of consequence   Two cases of double-voting on a Joshua anti-Bran...  
WhispersOfWisdom   Here's a second case of Gothnic voting on a J...  
Amarkov   You know, it is always possible to come up with so...  
Proabivouac   You know, it is always possible to come up with s...  
jorge   So, this devious wikipedian/ex-wikipedian hacker w...  
Castle Rock   Christ, it just keeps getting better. What next, ...  
Jon Awbrey   JoshuaZ has Dissociative identity disorder, and h...  
Milton Roe   JoshuaZ has [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dis...  
Daniel Brandt   FloNight says: I have to disagree. This requires ...  
Somey   Right. OK, let's do the usual B.S. "supe...  
Kato   No, no, Somey. Rootkit. It was the Rootkit. :lol:  
dogbiscuit   No, no, Somey. Rootkit. It was the Rootkit. :lol:...  
Derktar   No, no, Somey. Rootkit. It was the Rootkit. :lol...  
Proabivouac   Right. OK, let's do the usual B.S. "sup...  
Derktar   Right. OK, let's do the usual B.S. "sup...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   Well obviously, the evil WR hacker logged in as So...  
Kato   Well obviously, the evil WR hacker logged in as S...  
Daniel Brandt   I was going to do a photoshop and replace the face...  
Daniel Brandt   He's wrong about Facebook. I merely registered...  
Moulton   It occurs to me that both theories could be incorr...  
Kato   It occurs to me that both theories could be incor...  
Moulton   Gothnic may or may not be one and the same as Yali...  
Moulton   Gothnic's user page says he's in CT. And ...  
Kato   Gothnic's user page says he's in CT. Got...  
Moulton   Or, more likely, a coupla Yalies, who use the same...  
Derktar   Or, more likely, a coupla Yalies, who use the sam...  
Moulton   [quote name='Moulton' post='95440' date='Tue 22nd ...  
jorge   Yah, it's curious that the most plausible exp...  
Moulton   [quote name='Moulton' post='95443' date='Wed 23rd ...  
jorge   Has anyone contacted Gothnic and asked him to com...  
Moulton   If the sockpuppet account only edited Daniel Brand...  
jorge   Has anyone contacted Gothnic and asked him to com...  
Achromatic   Has anyone contacted Gothnic and asked him to co...  
Jon Awbrey   [quote name='jorge' post='95557' date='Wed 23rd A...  
Proabivouac   Or, more likely, a coupla Yalies, who use the sa...  
Kato   Like everything else, though, consistency in enfo...  
BobbyBombastic   Don't ask me. He could have said they're ...  
Kato   JoshuaZ has offered a proposal: http://en.wikiped...  
Moulton   According to Sec 113 of the Violence Against Women...  
Somey   http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid...  
Daniel Brandt   Great... That just gives him carte blanche to pla...  
Moulton   Do you have any evidence and reasoning to support ...  
Kato   Do you have any [i]evidence and reasoning to supp...  
Proabivouac   Let's not make it complicated, people: JoshuaZ...  
Random832   It's about administrators as a class, and the...  
jorge   It's about administrators as a class, and th...  
Moulton   What troubles me, Kato, is that your "evidenc...  
Kato   What troubles me, Kato, is that your "eviden...  
Somey   They found a third account, Miles Naismith, too. ...  
Kato   Why would JoshuaZ create the [wp]User:Miles_Naism...  
Somey   He did use it in deletion debates. My bad...  
Moulton   Okay, Moulton, now you're starting to piss me ...  
Somey   You're pretty sure there are others besides me...  
Random832   Sorry, I'm not alone. I hate it when I do tha...  
Somey   I thought WR wasn't a monolithic entity, but r...  
thekohser   Can you demonstrate that no other Yalie is a Wiki...  
Moulton   Moulton, your repeatedly going to bat here for Jos...  
jorge   But I do care if people who are cheering for one ...  
Moulton   Consider, for example, User:Cazort. He goes to Ya...  
Jon Awbrey   Can we transport this e-comium to the shrine alrea...  
Jon Awbrey   Can we transport this e-comium to the shrine alre...  
BobbyBombastic   Mod note: moved from General Discussions to Joshua...  
Moulton   Upthread, I already said I would gladly publish th...  
Lar   Upthread, I already said I would gladly publish t...  
Daniel   http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid...  
Kato   I wonder what will happen to JoshuaZ's other ...  
Moulton   Well, golly, if I respond and say you're right...  
Jonathan   Moulton's defense of JoshuaZ is completely r...  
Jon Awbrey   I believe that is what is called the "Phoeni...  
Moulton   All I'm saying is, if this case is typical of ...  


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