JzG RFC held off for Cannes..., ...but the JzG film festival continues anyway Options

[Piperdown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JzG

I'm in Cannes most of this week. Not likely to be around much. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 14:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Then proceeds to:

# 23:41, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents‎ (→Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Loony: a novella of epic proportions: reply)
# 23:22, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents‎ (→User:Doc glasgow: comments)
# 23:17, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Loony: a novella of epic proportions‎ (→The Loony: a novella of epic proportions: Delete)
# 23:10, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard‎ (→Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:JzG/Troll-B-Gon: reply)
# 23:05, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) m Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (→Image of a document: sp)
# 23:05, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (→Image of a document: reply)
# 23:02, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (→Skeptic's dictionary: reply)
# 22:59, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) m Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (Protected Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard: block evading abusive user [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 22:59, 3 March 2008 (UTC)))
# 22:58, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) m Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (Reverted edits by 72.76.82.238 (talk) to last version by Jossi)
# 22:58, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User talk:JzG‎ (→RS/N: thanks for alerting me to your block evasion.) (top)
# 17:08, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard‎ (→Image of a document: enough)
# 17:07, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User talk:72.76.9.74‎ (blocked) (top)
# 16:54, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vicki Iseman‎ (→Vicki Iseman: Delete)
# 16:52, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents‎ (→User:Doc glasgow: reply)
# 16:48, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents‎ (→Is this how administrators are supposed to use their deletion powers?: reply)
# 16:39, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard‎ (→Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:JzG/Troll-B-Gon: feh)
# 16:39, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User:JzG/Uninformed wingnut drivel‎ (not needed in userspace) (top)
# 14:20, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User talk:JzG‎ (→You surprise me...: reply)
# 14:19, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User talk:JzG‎ (→Kimberly Williamson Butler)
# 14:17, 25 February 2008 (hist) (diff) User talk:JzG‎ (→IRL busy: new section)

This guy is not taking any time off from WP, regardless of what his dramaqueen lies say on his dramapage. So go ahead with the JzG RFC already, and do what should have been done a long time ago. Terminate his admin privvies with extreme prejudice and let him free his mind of his WP burden and retire in peace for once and for all with a nice indef block.

This dossier couldn't be more clear that a loose cannon has had the run of the place and turned his and many others' little corners of WP into a toxic superfund site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cla68/RfC/Sandbox

Go ahead, make Jimbo's day. Per his email to "Nathan", Jimbo does have a soopersekret silent problem with it too. Consider it his blessing to do what you must for the lovefest procession that is Wikipedia. Be bold.

This post has been edited by Piperdown:

[Kato]

Cla68 informed JzG of the request for comment as per procedure. JzG merely deleted it and wrote to Cla68 "Go away and never post here ever again. You are not welcome".

[Piperdown]

Cla68 informed JzG of the request for comment as per procedure. JzG merely deleted it and wrote to Cla68 "Go away and never post here ever again. You are not welcome".

might as well have written, "WP, please indef me please - put me out of my Wikimisery".

[Viridae]

We can afford to give it a few days and if he continues to edit as he is now then the RfC will be listed. There is no point in rushing it through and have him cry that he couldnt defend himself because he was away. If you want this reolved it has to be resolved properly.

[Piperdown]

We can afford to give it a few days and if he continues to edit as he is now then the RfC will be listed. There is no point in rushing it through and have him cry that he couldnt defend himself because he was away. If you want this reolved it has to be resolved properly.

you're being way too nice to someone who wouldn't do the same for you. Fwiw. Good luck with the RFC, there's not been many more straightforward cases like this, I would believe.

JzG has already spoken his piece, now it's time for the rest of Wikipedia to read the diffs, and address the problem as they would with any other editor who has done these things.

This post has been edited by Piperdown:

[Proabivouac]

We can afford to give it a few days and if he continues to edit as he is now then the RfC will be listed. There is no point in rushing it through and have him cry that he couldnt defend himself because he was away. If you want this reolved it has to be resolved properly.

No, you should post it. JzG is always in the process of retiring or being otherwise unavailable, yet somehow manages to participate enough to fill up this RfC.

I don't know why the Crutfbane section was removed…
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=193257758
…it shows that JzG violates the very rule he pushed so hard for ArbCom to impose upon a resistant community:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...ckpuppet_policy
(thanks to Newyorkbrad for initiating this discussion)

Perhaps it was feared that this quote…

Recent events indicate that I am emotionally far less stable than I thought. I will probably use my trusty sockpuppet for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=190365471

…would remind us of the sympathy we're supposed to feel for JzG, and undermine the RfC?

But most of us at WR (it seems) do feel some sympathy for Guy. He obviously is unstable, and not only due to recent events (though that couldn't have helped.)

It's not that he's a bad person - he isn't - or that he means badly - he doesn't - but that he no longer has any business operating as an administrator on Wikipedia.

Maybe it should be written into WP:SOCK, or an amendment to that effect added to ArbCom's horrible sentence three?

"Sockpuppet accounts are not to be used in discussions internal to the project, such as policy debates, unless the sockmaster is emotionally unstable."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...on#Sockpuppetry

And he was using it long before his recent loss.

If he's that unstable, he should keep away from the project…just as he keeps saying he's going to do ("retired".) It's not that Guy should be punished or condemned. He should be graciously thanked for his years of hard work, awarded a barnstar and removed for the good of the project.

This post has been edited by Proabivouac:

[Piperdown]

W-R.

Where honest discussions about Wikipedians and what they have done, occur for all other Wikipedians to read.

Just say "no" to soopersekreting and Jayjg "You got my back?" off-WP collusive canvassing.

This post has been edited by Piperdown:

[Piperdown]

oh, almost forgot. My first "exposure" to Cannes was that was a-place-in-France-where-the-topless-ladies-dance...on the beach. Then I got past the age of 8 and learned it was a film festival mecca, among other arts.

"Per contributions" and the IP Exposer Tool that Kohser used, I'd say JzG is there for the toplessness. You go, guy!. May a dozen Bratwurst Stuffed German Speedos block your view and force you back on to Bomis.com where you're more comfortable. Whether Bomis means "Boobs in volume" or not, I can't say. My latin is rusty.

(IMG:http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00249/borat_i_cannes_249212c.jpg)
JzG promoting the "Cultural Mores" of Wikipedia for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Bomistan


That picture makes me literally roflmao...

This post has been edited by Piperdown:

[Castle Rock]

you're being way too nice to someone who wouldn't do the same for you. Fwiw. Good luck with the RFC, there's not been many more straightforward cases like this, I would believe.

Exactly, that's why it is so important to go by the book, don't wanna blow a slam dunk like this on a technicality. If he keeps editing then it's clear that it is good to go.

oh, almost forgot. My first "exposure" to Cannes was that was a-place-in-France-where-the-topless-ladies-dance...on the beach. Then I got past the age of 8 and learned it was a film festival mecca, among other arts.

"Per contributions" and the IP Exposer Tool that Kohser used, I'd say JzG is there for the toplessness. You go, guy!. May a dozen Bratwurst Stuffed German Speedos block your view and force you back on to Bomis.com where you're more comfortable. Whether Bomis means "Boobs in volume" or not, I can't say. My latin is rusty.

(IMG:http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00249/borat_i_cannes_249212c.jpg)
JzG promoting the "Cultural Mores" of Wikipedia for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Bomistan

Piperdown, I thought about this and when I think the nude beach from EuroTrip is more like it. Also lol at Hipocrite coming back for the millionth time.

Additionally, please don't use me to support your witchunt. I want no part of your "encyclopedia." Thanks! [[User:Hcri|Hcri]] ([[User talk:Hcri|talk]]) 17:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

This post has been edited by Castle Rock:

[Viridae]

We can afford to give it a few days and if he continues to edit as he is now then the RfC will be listed. There is no point in rushing it through and have him cry that he couldnt defend himself because he was away. If you want this reolved it has to be resolved properly.

you're being way too nice to someone who wouldn't do the same for you. Fwiw. Good luck with the RFC, there's not been many more straightforward cases like this, I would believe.

Yes you are probobly right, but it doesn't cost us much/anything to hold off from posting it till he gets back from this trip. Its not going to go away, no matter how much JzG wishes it would. Cla68 is a man of integrity.

[Proabivouac]

Also lol at Hipocrite coming back for the millionth time.

Additionally, please don't use me to support your witchunt. I want no part of your "encyclopedia." Thanks! [[User:Hcri|Hcri]] ([[User talk:Hcri|talk]]) 17:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a another sockpuppet participating in "discussions internal to the project."

[Neil]

I was surprised to see a message from Hipocrite; for someone who wants nothing to do with the encyclopedia, he's red hot at checking up on people using his name and making sure they do not.

[Proabivouac]

I was surprised to see a message from Hipocrite; for someone who wants nothing to do with the encyclopedia, he's red hot at checking up on people using his name and making sure they do not.

Welcome, Neil, to the Wikipedia Review!

[Neil]

Thanks. I think someone else already welcomed me on another thread, so thanks to them, too.

[Random832]

I don't know why the Crutfbane section was removed…
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=193257758
…it shows that JzG violates the very rule he pushed so hard for ArbCom to impose upon a resistant community:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...ckpuppet_policy
(thanks to Newyorkbrad for initiating this discussion)

Because it's a f*ing weak argument. He didn't post to the RFAR under a different name, he just forgot to switch logins. There was no "Evidence presented by Cruftbane", there was no indication (other than to someone who read the history) that it was anyone other than JzG, and there was no lack of indication that it was JzG. There's plenty of actual material; there's no need to muddy the waters with such an easily-attacked argument. If that _were_ present in the RFC, his supporters would focus on it as an example of how we're "grasping at straws"

Yes you are probobly right, but it doesn't cost us much/anything to hold off from posting it till he gets back from this trip. Its not going to go away, no matter how much JzG wishes it would. Cla68 is a man of integrity.

Too long with no activity and it will be deleted under the bogus "G10: no-accountability zone" rule for evidence pages. Taking bets on who pushes the button.

This post has been edited by Random832:

[Neil]

Too long with no activity and it will be deleted under the bogus "G10: no-accountability zone" rule for evidence pages. Taking bets on who pushes the button.

I don't think that'll happen (and if it does, I'll be the first to unpush it). I'm still digging up diffs from the past 12 months, and have yet to trawl wikien-l properly, so any delay just offers opportunity to further improve and refine things.

[dogbiscuit]

Too long with no activity and it will be deleted under the bogus "G10: no-accountability zone" rule for evidence pages. Taking bets on who pushes the button.

I don't think that'll happen (and if it does, I'll be the first to unpush it). I'm still digging up diffs from the past 12 months, and have yet to trawl wikien-l properly, so any delay just offers opportunity to further improve and refine things.

FWIW, there is already more than sufficient to make the case. Perhaps a more appropriate, kindly approach, is to simply note that there are other offences to be taken into account, and assuming that some sort of sanction is proposed, that those are wiped clean at the same time. One of WPs failings is an elephantine memory for past sins, and the danger is that too thorough a job will just fail under the appearance of being a vendetta rather than thoroughness. In fact, I would suggest a major pruning on the main page, with the detail accessible in an appendix of some sort, it would look far less vindictive.

It is also worth being clear as to why this is being done. WP has a duty of care to its participants (and I see that as affecting both Guy and his targets). If WP was UK based they might get into some legal difficulties, especially with admins, as volunteers can fall under employment law.

There seems to be strong consensus here that Guy needs to take an enforced break both to protect his targets and to protect himself. His friends do him a dis-service by encouraging him to believe that he is acting appropriately - s bit of cruel to be kind would be appropriate.

[Proabivouac]

He didn't post to the RFAR under a different name, he just forgot to switch logins. There was no "Evidence presented by Cruftbane", there was no indication (other than to someone who read the history) that it was anyone other than JzG, and there was no lack of indication that it was JzG.

No, that's when he slipped up and broadcast it. He'd been participating in "discussions internal to the project, such as policy debates" long before this, giving no indication that he's JzG (WP:CSD is policy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=164691591
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=164692923
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=164698270

and innumerable deletion debates, which while not policy pages, are certainly "discussions internal to the project."

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...arget=Cruftbane

His goal was to avoid scrutiny or trolling - choose your term, in this context they mean the same thing - he wanted to be able to edit without people knowing that he's JzG. Which, in itself, I find completely understandable…except that's a consideration he's made a point of principle to deny others, to the point of initiating an arbitration case to change the rules so that others can't do exactly what he himself was doing with Cruftbane.

[One]

Perhaps about 1-2 screens of the strongest stuff should be in the RfC, with a sub page for additional evidence. One thing I liked about Mantanmoreland's RfC is that the Cool Hand Luke summary was very terse and convincing, even though it referenced tons of previous (and expanding) research at SirFozzie's.

As others have said, only the strongest, hardest-to-dismiss stuff should be above the RfC's dotted line. Older stuff, wikien-l, and the like should be cataloged in subpages for those unconvinced of his systematically poor judgment, but we don't want to give supporters any excuses to nitpick.

[Piperdown]

(IMG:http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00249/borat_i_cannes_249212c.jpg)
JzG, Cannes 2008, promoting the "Cultural Mores" of Wikipedia for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Bomistan

sorry, i needed a cheeriupper and that does it for me. gratuitous selfquoting-abuse.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: