MZMcBride desysopped, Next case Options

[Cla68]

Apparently, MZMcBride is being desysopped. I didn't think that he was an abusive admin, but he made some serious mistakes in the way he went about doing admin work.

I guess if we want to try to relate this to the "big picture", it shows that Wikipedia, in my opinion, needs a more formal, structured system to help guide its admins in how they perform project maintenance.

[Alex]

Apparently, MZMcBride is being desysopped. I didn't think that he was an abusive admin, but he made some serious mistakes in the way he went about doing admin work.

I guess if we want to try to relate this to the "big picture", it shows that Wikipedia, in my opinion, needs a more formal, structured system to help guide its admins in how they perform project maintenance.

MZMcBride has been very helpful to me in the past, but sometimes is a pain in the backside to talk to when he disagrees with me on something. I think that if he'd gone about his business with a totally different approach, he wouldn't be where he is now.

[LaraLove]

Seeing MZMcBride get desysopped while other actual abusive admins are able to retain the bit is just ridiculous. It's also good to see where some of the Arbs stand on the matter, and I'm a bit surprised by a couple. Should be interesting to see how some of these arbs vote in the future on desysopping motions.

[The Joy]

He has resigned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=282027735

[Casliber]

Seeing MZMcBride get desysopped while other actual abusive admins are able to retain the bit is just ridiculous. It's also good to see where some of the Arbs stand on the matter, and I'm a bit surprised by a couple. Should be interesting to see how some of these arbs vote in the future on desysopping motions.

All I can add here is that arbcom is a place to bring cases of admin misconduct and misuse of tools, so people concerned should do so.

[LaraLove]

All I can add here is that arbcom is a place to bring cases of admin misconduct and misuse of tools, so people concerned should do so.

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

Or maybe it's better to just say something like "While it's a place to bring such cases, it's not necessarily a place to expect results."

I'm sure there are a few other applicable responses, but I'll just stick with those two.

[One]

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

In case you haven't noticed, this ArbCom is quite a bit different than last year's in both composition and philosophy. It's much more law and order. If you have a case of administrative misconduct, I believe that we will apply these standards across the board.

[Son of a Yeti]

He has resigned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=282027735

He wasn't that bad by today WP standard. And now he resigned at the same time when Guy and his faithful choir of sycophants threaten to ban anyone who claims cold fusion is not a Nobel deserving scientific breakthrough.

Sigh. Wikipedia is really going to the dogs.

[Sarcasticidealist]

He wasn't that bad by today WP standard. And now he resigned at the same time when Guy and his faithful choir of sycophants threaten to ban anyone who claims cold fusion is not a Nobel deserving scientific breakthrough.

You either added an extra "not" in there or you're misreading the situation rather profoundly. Guy thinks (rightly, from everything I've seen) that cold fusion is hookum.

[emesee]

Maybe with dilligent good faith, he could perhaps attain the coveted position of super-sysop at encyc or wikademia

PERHAPS (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

[Son of a Yeti]

He wasn't that bad by today WP standard. And now he resigned at the same time when Guy and his faithful choir of sycophants threaten to ban anyone who claims cold fusion is not a Nobel deserving scientific breakthrough.

You either added an extra "not" in there or you're misreading the situation rather profoundly. Guy thinks (rightly, from everything I've seen) that cold fusion is hookum.

Yes? So I misread the RfC. But it's still POV galore.

[Cla68]

He wasn't that bad by today WP standard. And now he resigned at the same time when Guy and his faithful choir of sycophants threaten to ban anyone who claims cold fusion is not a Nobel deserving scientific breakthrough.

You either added an extra "not" in there or you're misreading the situation rather profoundly. Guy thinks (rightly, from everything I've seen) that cold fusion is hookum.

Yes? So I misread the RfC. But it's still POV galore.

I think that JzG has just received his third strike and his admin privileges are as good as gone. The only thing in the way is the time it takes to wait for everyone to weigh-in on the RfC and then for someone to take it to ArbCom and then wait for ArbCom to vote on it. The new arbcom is trying to send a message. If you look at the last few case decisions, they haven't held back too much in imposing sanctions and corrective action.

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[EricBarbour]

I think that JzG has just received his third strike and his admin privileges are as good as gone. The only thing in the way is the time it takes to wait for everyone to weigh-in on the RfC and then for someone to take it to ArbCom and then wait for ArbCom to vote on it. The new arbcom is trying to send a message. If you look at the last few case decisions, they haven't held back too much in imposing sanctions and corrective action.

Wow. It is his third RFC.

Classic Guy.

JzG blocked 5 IPs for "block evasion", stating or implying that the edits were by Jed Rothwell, even though two of them are from the wrong geographical area and were unsigned; Jed Rothwell consistently signs his edits.

© Over a period of more than one year, JzG persistently directed uncivil comments and personal attacks at other editors. These comments frequently included obscene and vulgar language and abuse. Many of the incivil and offensive comments were contained in edit summaries so that they are permanently logged in page histories. Often, although not always, the inappropriate comments accompanied otherwise proper commentary, edits, or administrator actions, and the comments were often, although again by no means always or nearly always, directed at users exhibiting problematic behavior (but this generally is not a mitigating circumstance). JzG continued to make some of these types of comments even after Wikipedia:Requests for comment/JzG2 called his attention to substantial community concern about his style and other users characterized it as conduct unbecoming an administrator.
Passed 9 to 0 at 00:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC).

(D) JzG has taken several overly harsh administrator actions and made unnecessarily rude comments to new editors, thereby reducing the chance that these potentially valuable contributors would continue editing Wikipedia.
Passed 8 to 0 (with 1 abstention) at 00:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC).

See you on the breadline, Guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

Amazing. MZM AND Guy, in the same week.
Never thought I'd say this, but "things are looking up".

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Casliber]

All I can add here is that arbcom is a place to bring cases of admin misconduct and misuse of tools, so people concerned should do so.

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

Or maybe it's better to just say something like "While it's a place to bring such cases, it's not necessarily a place to expect results."

I'm sure there are a few other applicable responses, but I'll just stick with those two.

(puts two fingers in mouth and wolf-whistles) "Hey Viridae..." - but seriously, I thought he'd (confirmed as he???) be reading this. Anyway, from what I see, there seems to be a reluctance to progress to arbcom on issues of admin conduct, if you compare to the level of complaints written about the place, both on WR and here. I feel some more useful discussion is being generated at RfC from time to time as well, which at least has some structure, unlike trying to read reams of text at AN/I - so I'd recommend utilising the appropriate forums.

[Son of a Yeti]

Amazing. MZM AND Guy, in the same week.
Never thought I'd say this, but "things are looking up".

I cannot agree more (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[LaraLove]

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

In case you haven't noticed, this ArbCom is quite a bit different than last year's in both composition and philosophy. It's much more law and order. If you have a case of administrative misconduct, I believe that we will apply these standards across the board.

Then lets hope the cases start piling in.

[JoseClutch]

Seeing MZMcBride get desysopped while other actual abusive admins are able to retain the bit is just ridiculous. It's also good to see where some of the Arbs stand on the matter, and I'm a bit surprised by a couple. Should be interesting to see how some of these arbs vote in the future on desysopping motions.

There is a random, stochastic element to it, but if you repeatedly get dragged in front of ArbCom for misusing your admin tools, you will get desysopped sooner or later.

Merely being an asshole is not enough, or even necessary, though if you do not blow people off, but actually discuss their concerns and are reasonable, you will never get dragged in front of ArbCom.

Results are a bit surprising. I always thought Flonight hung out on IRC all the time, which would have had me guess she would support MZMBride to the bitter end. Is Carcharoth active on IRC? Wizardman is kind of surprising, too, since he supports everyone and their brother and RFA, and is active on IRC. Otherwise, looks like what you would expect.

[CharlotteWebb]

I think that JzG has just received his third strike...

I realize I'm not known for saying nice things about him but as far as cold fusion goes I'm pretty sure they'll give him a base on WP:BALLS (to quote his own essay).

[Alex]

I must admit I had extremely little faith in arbcom, but they did desysop Aitias, a classic example of an abusive admin, which restored my belief that the system does work if you try and use it. I'm all for a deadminning system, but if the one we have generally works (imo) then perhaps we don't need a new thing.

[CharlotteWebb]

I guess if we want to try to relate this to the "big picture", it shows that Wikipedia, in my opinion, needs a more formal, structured system to help guide its admins in how they perform project maintenance.

Oh you mean like admin-coaching (not to be confused with admin-coaching)...

[A Horse With No Name]

What a f**king waste of time and energy. I can understand why MZM quit -- it was either that or being bored to death by that tiresome Sanhedrin.

[Milton Roe]

I think that JzG has just received his third strike and his admin privileges are as good as gone. The only thing in the way is the time it takes to wait for everyone to weigh-in on the RfC and then for someone to take it to ArbCom and then wait for ArbCom to vote on it. The new arbcom is trying to send a message. If you look at the last few case decisions, they haven't held back too much in imposing sanctions and corrective action.

Yes! I hope they don't boot him entirely, but just (permanently) remove his admin bit. He'll do fine as an ordinary "valued editor" and I think it will be educational for him. He might even contribute more content, as in days of old when he wasn't spending all his time indef-blocking IPs out of sock-paranoia.

Same with SlimVirgin and Jayjg, BTW. Both would be harmless and even possibly contructive without the admin-bit and power to make POVish edits stick in the face of all oposition and facts.

Of course, this presumes that neither of them would try to proxy edit-war through remaining admin friends, which I would NOT put past either of them. But de-sysoping should carry that warning. Stay a mere editor, or else next, you really DO get the Big Boot.

[MZMcBride]

What a f**king waste of time and energy. I can understand why MZM quit -- it was either that or being bored to death by that tiresome Sanhedrin.

I haven't left, and currently have no plans of doing so. Am I discouraged? Absolutely. But there remains a lot of work to be done and very few seem willing to help. From all of the indications I see, Wikipedia has no signs of dying anytime soon. So as it continues to be used as often as it is, the critical biography-related problems must be addressed.

As for the de-adminning, events are still unfolding. We'll see what happens. In the mean time, I've posted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MZM...sing_grievances for all those interested.

[EricBarbour]

I haven't left, and currently have no plans of doing so. Am I discouraged? Absolutely. But there remains a lot of work to be done and very few seem willing to help. From all of the indications I see, Wikipedia has no signs of dying anytime soon. So as it continues to be used as often as it is, the critical biography-related problems must be addressed.
As for the de-adminning, events are still unfolding. We'll see what happens. In the mean time, I've posted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MZM...sing_grievances for all those interested.

That's nice. Now, try writing some CONTENT for once.

[Casliber]

I must admit I had extremely little faith in arbcom, but they did desysop Aitias, a classic example of an abusive admin, which restored my belief that the system does work if you try and use it. I'm all for a deadminning system, but if the one we have generally works (imo) then perhaps we don't need a new thing.

Arbcom generally responds to people putting up a request, and to me this has been the missing step:

what I see is

*Lots of complaining here and there:

*Post(s) at AN/I, where the bloglike unstructured nature of the forum quickly descends into a reams of words which are unable to keep any but the keenest attention span.

*Underutilization of RfC

and then:

little in the way of referral to RFAR (however there is alot going on in terms of open cases (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) so I am not waving my arms too vigorously...)

[A Horse With No Name]

What a f**king waste of time and energy. I can understand why MZM quit -- it was either that or being bored to death by that tiresome Sanhedrin.

I haven't left, and currently have no plans of doing so. Am I discouraged? Absolutely. But there remains a lot of work to be done and very few seem willing to help. From all of the indications I see, Wikipedia has no signs of dying anytime soon. So as it continues to be used as often as it is, the critical biography-related problems must be addressed.

As for the de-adminning, events are still unfolding. We'll see what happens. In the mean time, I've posted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MZM...sing_grievances for all those interested.

My apologies for the premature burial, MZM. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

You are correct -- Wikipedia has no signs of dying anytime soon. I would raise doubts on its long-term viability, but that's a topic for another discussion.

You're okay in my book, MZM -- don't let those Arbcom assholes/arseholes get you down. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[EricBarbour]

Methinks this thread should be moved to Admin Retirements.

[Cla68]

What a f**king waste of time and energy. I can understand why MZM quit -- it was either that or being bored to death by that tiresome Sanhedrin.

I haven't left, and currently have no plans of doing so. Am I discouraged? Absolutely. But there remains a lot of work to be done and very few seem willing to help. From all of the indications I see, Wikipedia has no signs of dying anytime soon. So as it continues to be used as often as it is, the critical biography-related problems must be addressed.

As for the de-adminning, events are still unfolding. We'll see what happens. In the mean time, I've posted http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MZM...sing_grievances for all those interested.

I think you were trying to be effective as an admin with the things you were doing. I don't think what happened is completely your fault. As I've said many times before, Wikipedia has no structured system for helping guide and support its admin corps. It needs one. It needs some kind of configuration control board which issues admin action policies and guidelines and standard procedure checklists for its admins to follow and which is available for admins to ask questions of. That would be a good start.

[Gandoman]

MZMcBride has now submitted a request for adminship. It seems to be going quite well too, at 81% support.

[A Horse With No Name]

MZMcBride has now submitted a request for adminship. It seems to be going quite well too, at 81% support.

Yeah, but it is not uncommon for RfAs to start strong and then begin to leak and sink -- look at Kww and the last Ironholds effort.

[A Horse With No Name]

MZMcBride has now submitted a request for adminship. It seems to be going quite well too, at 81% support.

He's already down to 73%, with six days to go and most of the RfA's celebrated malcontents not yet weighing in. As much as I like MZM, I would put money down that this is going to fail.

P.S. As the day progressed, this RfA sank like the proverbial lead balloon -- it is far below the 70% mark, with no signs of ascension. MZM, you ought to save face and bow out now!

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Cla68]

MZMcBride has now submitted a request for adminship. It seems to be going quite well too, at 81% support.

He's already down to 73%, with six days to go and most of the RfA's celebrated malcontents not yet weighing in. As much as I like MZM, I would put money down that this is going to fail.

P.S. As the day progressed, this RfA sank like the proverbial lead balloon -- it is far below the 70% mark, with no signs of ascension. MZM, you ought to save face and bow out now!

Come on, MZ, go write some quality articles, or help review FA nominations, or something like that for awhile.

[One]

I was tormented by the idea of being de-adminned when I felt the community still had confidence in me. We'll see what happens. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride#top|talk]]) 19:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Tormented? Does that mean he will be relieved by 56% and dropping?

ArbCom is over, and he's takin' a break.

This post has been edited by One:

[EricBarbour]

Oppose per the points explained by SoWhy above. MZMcBride is one of the most arbitrary, abusive and uncommunicative admins I know. I do not trust him in the slightest. — Aitias // discussion 09:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Don't mince your words now! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) GARDEN 09:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I suppose you'd know all about that. Black Kite 12:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

What's your new account name Aitias? Majorly talk 14:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

This practice of returning just to oppose people you dislike is tiresome. The points you just raised about MZMcBride could equally apply to your behavior over the last few months, Aitias. Acalamari 15:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

This isn't RfA or RfC Aitias. Your admonishments are better served at his talk page, so as not to distract from the core issue here.--Tznkai (talk) 15:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

@Acalamari: Writing "to oppose people you dislike" under every comment from me on RfAs is kind of funny (as it doesn't apply, the point is not that I would not like MZM, but simply that I don't trust him with the tools), however it's unnecessary and pointless and therefore you sould consider stopping it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) — Aitias // discussion 16:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

Whether or not my current RFA passes or fails (I still have hope that the community will find forgiveness), I'll be taking a break the minute it closes. I've been active on this project day after day for a very long time. It's taken a toll and Durova is completely right that I need a break.

I'm announcing it in advance to make sure that I don't leave anything unattended. There's little around here that others can't handle, but if there's something in particular that you need from me, put it below and I'll try to take care of it before taking my break.

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:40, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

How long do you intend to break for? Majorly talk 01:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't know for sure. "Until it feels right," I guess. I can't imagine it will be less than two weeks. I can't imagine it will be more than two months. So somewhere between those two, I suppose. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:46, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I think he'll be back within a week. Can't stop himself.

And BTW: http://mzmcbride.com/


This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Milton Roe]

Whether or not my current RFA passes or fails (I still have hope that the community will find forgiveness), I'll be taking a break the minute it closes. I've been active on this project day after day for a very long time. It's taken a toll and Durova is completely right that I need a break.

How context affects our interpretation! I actually read that as "It's taken a troll and Durova is completely right that I need a break." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[everyking]

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

In case you haven't noticed, this ArbCom is quite a bit different than last year's in both composition and philosophy. It's much more law and order. If you have a case of administrative misconduct, I believe that we will apply these standards across the board.

I haven't noticed. Try harder.

[LessHorrid vanU]

I have to say that support #13 made me smile.

[Kurt M. Weber]

Tell that to Viridae, among others, of course. Maybe tell it to some current RFC commenters. I'm not sure how many would agree.

In case you haven't noticed, this ArbCom is quite a bit different than last year's in both composition and philosophy. It's much more law and order. If you have a case of administrative misconduct, I believe that we will apply these standards across the board.

If that's true, then my tireless work as the vanguard of the revolution against those with a vested interest in the corrupt status quo is solely to thank.

[gomi]

In case you haven't noticed, this ArbCom is quite a bit different than last year's in both composition and philosophy. It's much more law and order. If you have a case of administrative misconduct, I believe that we will apply these standards across the board.

Hmmm. Then how to explain that Jayjg still has an admin bit (gone, but not forgotten), and SlimVirgin just got hers back (forgotten, but not gone)? Come to think of it, how do you explain Raul654 at all?

[Son of a Yeti]

Whether or not my current RFA passes or fails (I still have hope that the community will find forgiveness), I'll be taking a break the minute it closes. I've been active on this project day after day for a very long time. It's taken a toll and Durova is completely right that I need a break.

Technically, he did not lie. He did have a break between April 9 and 24.

It's a rare thing for a long term Wikipedian to be able to actually take a two week break.

Kudos for MZ.