The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Guardian comes to an end, is now a PR newswire
thekohser
post Thu 13th January 2011, 2:32pm
Post #1


Member
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,274
Joined: Thu 1st Feb 2007, 10:21pm
Member No.: 911



The title says it all...

We've seen America's vitriol. Now let's salute Wikipedia, a US pioneer of global civility

by Timothy Garton Ash
for The Guardian (of what?)

By the way, Timothy Garton Ash's Wikipedia biography contains one reference note, and it reads little different than it did 6.5 years ago, when it was created by a single-purpose account in Wisconsin.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Larry Sanger
post Sun 16th January 2011, 4:34am
Post #2


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun 2nd May 2010, 9:22pm
Member No.: 19,790

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 13th January 2011, 9:32am) *

The title says it all...

We've seen America's vitriol. Now let's salute Wikipedia, a US pioneer of global civility

by Timothy Garton Ash
for The Guardian (of what?)

By the way, Timothy Garton Ash's Wikipedia biography contains one reference note, and it reads little different than it did 6.5 years ago, when it was created by a single-purpose account in Wisconsin.


Pioneer of global civility? I've heard Wikipedia called a lot of things, but never that. Truly ridiculous.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Derktar
post Sun 16th January 2011, 6:41am
Post #3


WR Black Ops
******

Group: Moderators
Posts: 1,029
Joined: Sat 11th Aug 2007, 3:37am
From: Torrance, California, USA
Member No.: 2,381

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Probably my favorite comment:

QUOTE
Wikipedia is a little bit like the Guardian. Random contributors can put all kinds of questionable "facts" into the piece with little to no fact-checking.


Ouch!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Somey
post Sun 16th January 2011, 7:54am
Post #4


Can't actually moderate
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,814
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275



Has anyone pointed it out to him that he's got it reversed? What he's referring to as "America's vitriol" started getting really bad just after Wikipedia became a top-ten website. What he should be doing, and would be if he actually cared about history, is drawing logical inferences from the known (and well-documented) chain of recent events.

The fact is, Wikipedia does have a significant, though subtle and insidious, negative effect on political discourse in the United States. It's not direct; what it does is siphon off political moderates, attracted by the promise of "neutral point of view," and the false promise of artifical civility enforced by bans and such. These people might otherwise put in that time and effort to argue with extremist ideologues on other websites, if they really cared. Instead, they're told "don't feed the trolls," it's best to ignore the people who deal in "vitriol" and make irrational, or even violent, political statements online. In effect, they're fiddling while Rome burns.

This is all related to Wikipedia's Google footprint too, of course. (That sort of goes without saying!)

Anyway, the end-result is increased polarization and self-delusion - extremists thinking that the lack of opposition they see on their own blogs and news sites (and even their own encyclopedias) is actually evidence that everyone else agrees with them. Nobody blames Wikipedia for this because they're not deliberately trying to achieve this effect, but there probably isn't a better example anywhere on the internet of a site that does this.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
thekohser
post Sun 16th January 2011, 7:32pm
Post #5


Member
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,274
Joined: Thu 1st Feb 2007, 10:21pm
Member No.: 911



From The Guardian:
QUOTE
Comments on this page are now closed.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Cedric
post Sun 16th January 2011, 8:22pm
Post #6


General Gato
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,648
Joined: Sun 11th Mar 2007, 5:58pm
From: God's Ain Country
Member No.: 1,116

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 16th January 2011, 1:32pm) *

From The Guardian:
QUOTE
Comments on this page are now closed.

Well, they really didn't need anymore after this one anyway:
QUOTE
Oroklini, 13 January 2011 10:29AM

QUOTE
But why not allow it to become the standard against which deviations in thought and opinion are compared? It is, after all, a constantly changing consensus view.

But that's exactly why it's not good/reliable once you get away from very well-known subject areas: there simply aren't enough editors out there to create a true consensus. What you get, especially in humanities subjects, is a horrible mish-mash of opinion and very slanted fact. And that's just the entries I wrote.


I think it amusing the comments got shut down right after this one:
QUOTE
antiarctic, 13 January 2011 11:11PM

QUOTE
what's the 'interesting background' of jimmy w you refer to?

Expenses that Wales tried to apply to the foundation included $300+ bottles of wine and visits to Moscow "massage" parlors.


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
The Adversary
post Mon 17th January 2011, 2:53am
Post #7


CT (Check Troll)
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat 20th May 2006, 12:09am
Member No.: 194



QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 13th January 2011, 3:32pm) *

The title says it all...

We've seen America's vitriol. Now let's salute Wikipedia, a US pioneer of global civility

by Timothy Garton Ash
for The Guardian (of what?)


If you think that is bad, you should see the translation given in the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet (T-H-L-K-D) : http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/01/14/kultur/...ments_container

....they have changed the headline to: "The idealist who won the world".
And the sub-heading is: "Wikipedia: Jimmy Wales could have been a multimillionaire, but choose utopian idealism instead"".

<Face palm>
sick.gif sick.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
A User
post Mon 17th January 2011, 3:29am
Post #8


Senior Member
****

Group: Contributors
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed 23rd Apr 2008, 2:37am
Member No.: 5,813



QUOTE(The Adversary @ Mon 17th January 2011, 1:53pm) *

If you think that is bad, you should see the translation given in the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet (T-H-L-K-D) : http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/01/14/kultur/...ments_container

....they have changed the headline to: "The idealist who won the world".
And the sub-heading is: "Wikipedia: Jimmy Wales could have been a multimillionaire, but choose utopian idealism instead"".

<Face palm>
sick.gif sick.gif



Good grief... Next we'll have a Vatican announcement that Wales is a new saint.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jon Awbrey
post Mon 17th January 2011, 1:04pm
Post #9


τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,738
Joined: Sun 6th Apr 2008, 4:52am
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 16th January 2011, 2:54am) *

Anyway, the end-result is increased polarization and self-delusion — extremists thinking that the lack of opposition they see on their own blogs and news sites (and even their own encyclopedias) is actually evidence that everyone else agrees with them. Nobody blames Wikipedia for this because they're not deliberately trying to achieve this effect, but there probably isn't a better example anywhere on the internet of a site that does this.


Spontaneous Generation ??? That's your answer ???

Jon dry.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th 5 13, 5:22pm