[[David Shankbone]], A biography appears Options

[carbuncle]

Someone seems to have created a BLP of [[David Shankbone]]. User Huckandraz formerly seemed mainly interested in New York City artist [[Judy Rifka]].

No comment, just pointing it out.

[Somey]

Someone seems to have created a BLP of [[David Shankbone]]. User Huckandraz formerly seemed mainly interested in New York City artist [[Judy Rifka]].

Well, it was just a matter of time - they've let him get away scot-free with everything else imaginable, so why not that too? In fact, why don't they just rename the site "Bonerpedia" while they're at it? It would be more accurate, at least.

Still, I don't think he belongs on the Fordham Law School Alumni List if he didn't actually graduate, does he?

[Lar]

Still, I don't think he belongs on the Fordham Law School Alumni List if he didn't actually graduate, does he?

I don't think you need to be a graduate to be an alum. Alum just means you went there. Could be wrong.

[Noroton]

You don't suppose the article will be a magnet for ... drama?

Nah, what am I thinking.

As for "alumnus", I think any institution accepts anyone as alumni who ever went there, even for a day. They want contributions from wherever they can get them.

[Somey]

I don't think you need to be a graduate to be an alum. Alum just means you went there. Could be wrong.

Admittedly, there are a few definitions on the web that would include "former students," but the vast majority say "graduate."

Anyway, it doesn't matter - it's Wikipedia, so Shankers will get whatever he wants, as usual.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=UPI&...=define:alumnus

[Wikicrusher2]

How long before Shankers starts editing the page himself, and turns it into even more of a vanity than it is already?

I think the "Huckandraz" person, who is probably not the Little Rock, AR person to whom huckandraz.com is registered, actually knows him. http://myspace.com/huckandraz is the Myspace page of a 32-year-old woman who, like David Shankbone, is from Brooklyn.

[A Horse With No Name]

Significant problems as per WP:RS -- too many references from no-no blogs (including one from Michael Lucas and several from Mr. Miller himself). The article would make for a lively AfD -- the case that an amateur photojournalist is notable won't wash with many people.

Funny that the article doesn't mention some of the juicier personal stuff that Mr. Miller freely talks about on his blog -- not the least being his extreme lack of sexual activity (I guess those Michael Lucas poolside parties aren't as amusing as we would like to think).

[Eva Destruction]

I like the citation for "his work has appeared in the Encyclopedia Britannica" being a link to - um - a google search, which in turn leads to some self-uploaded photos on their user-editable section. Kind of like posting a comment on the White House blog and claiming to have been quoted by Obama.

[Somey]

...not the least being his extreme lack of sexual activity (I guess those Michael Lucas poolside parties aren't as amusing as we would like to think).

I'm not sure that would be "appropriate," but it wouldn't surprise me in any case. After all, why go to all the trouble and expense of fucking men or women, when you can fuck with the future of Western culture any time you want, for free?

[A Horse With No Name]

...not the least being his extreme lack of sexual activity (I guess those Michael Lucas poolside parties aren't as amusing as we would like to think).

I'm not sure that would be "appropriate," but it wouldn't surprise me in any case. After all, why go to all the trouble and expense of fucking men or women, when you can fuck with the future of Western culture any time you want, for free?

Have you ever read his blog? He comes across as a very sad character -- incredibly insecure, with significant family problems (including a lousy relationship with his father that he has detailed in depth) and no focus on what he wants to do with his life. For a man of his age, it's pretty embarrassing stuff. Outside of his Wikipedia snapshots and shilling for the Israeli government, he's never accomplished anything.

[carbuncle]

...not the least being his extreme lack of sexual activity (I guess those Michael Lucas poolside parties aren't as amusing as we would like to think).

I'm not sure that would be "appropriate," but it wouldn't surprise me in any case. After all, why go to all the trouble and expense of fucking men or women, when you can fuck with the future of Western culture any time you want, for free?

Have you ever read his blog? He comes across as a very sad character -- incredibly insecure, with significant family problems (including a lousy relationship with his father that he has detailed in depth) and no focus on what he wants to do with his life. For a man of his age, it's pretty embarrassing stuff. Outside of his Wikipedia snapshots and shilling for the Israeli government, he's never accomplished anything.

Um, hello? He has an article on Wikipedia about him! How many people can say that? You're just jealous because you're not on Wikipedia! Oh. Wait... Never mind.

[A Horse With No Name]

Um, hello? He has an article on Wikipedia about him! How many people can say that? You're just jealous because you're not on Wikipedia! Oh. Wait... Never mind.

So there is an article about me. Eh, big deal. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

How long before Shankers starts editing the page himself, and turns it into even more of a vanity than it is already?

How do we know he isn't already? I though audacious piss takes were his signature.

Would a newcomer honestly know stuff like, and have the confidence to throw about; abuse of speedy tag - over 10 reliable sources and same again twice?

No way.

[Milton Roe]

How long before Shankers starts editing the page himself, and turns it into even more of a vanity than it is already?

I think the "Huckandraz" person, who is probably not the Little Rock, AR person to whom huckandraz.com is registered, actually knows him. http://myspace.com/huckandraz is the Myspace page of a 32-year-old woman who, like David Shankbone, is from Brooklyn.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) His name is David Miller. He is from Brooklyn. He is gay and a drama queen and likes Fire Island. He blogs and gives us WAAY too much information. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif) He spends his time promoting the cause of Zionism with his gay Jewish entertainment industry friends, one of whom has a Fire Island house (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Surprise, David gets away with too much crap on Wikipedia, due to the connections he's made there.

Talk about gilding the lily! This overloads a wiki-abuse stereotype so badly that if I made it all up, you'd accuse me of doing too little work and not using my imagination!

But may I point out to the newbies here, that we've seen this all before. It's not that there's anything particularly evil about any of this stereotype, per se. In many ways, I'm a stereotype of another cut, as are we all. I'm just pissed that one particular mind-set of people gets away with anything they like on Wikipedia, and everybody else stands in line to be kicked.

The bicoastal liberal urbanite metrosexuals have long taken over at Wikipedia. Encouraged by Jimbo, who evidently grew up wanting badly to belong to this cultural class, which he was NOT born into. Which aspiration, we can recognize by his present location and past wine-bills, if nothing else. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[thekohser]

As for citizen journalists interviewing sitting heads of state, I think this may have been done before in the past. Shankbone would not be the first to do so.

Who is "Heroic" here interviewing the Premier?

More emphatically, what about Leonardo DiCaprio doing an interview in 2000 with President Clinton?

And let's not forget Lady Cook's interview with President Teddy Roosevelt in 1907.

But, then, I could see the debate centering on what it means to be a "citizen journalist". Is Leo DiCaprio not a citizen journalist because he derives a steady income outside of journalism and never strives to pursue journalistic activities on a regular basis? Do we really mean "amateur" journalism, since every journalist is a "citizen"?

I think this is a silly reason to hang a Wikipedia article's survival in the balance. I once shook hands more than 5 separate times within 5 minutes with former President Jimmy Carter. Do I get a Wikipedia article, or would that not count for anything because Carter was not a "sitting" head of state at the time?

Meanwhile...

Keep per Prodego, pending confirmation of basis. While I realize we should guard against navel gazing, if one of our own becomes notable, we should not flinch from a biography on that individual. KillerChihuahua 00:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, like that great Carolyn Doran article I frequently read and re-read on Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by thekohser:

[Somey]

Do we really mean "amateur" journalism, since every journalist is a "citizen"?

If by "we" you mean real people, yes. But of course, Shankers would never allow himself to be slurred by being called an "amateur" anything. That would be.... unimpressive! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Also, something tells me this particular article isn't likely to contain a "Criticism of..." section any time soon.

[TungstenCarbide]

Someone seems to have created a BLP of [[David Shankbone]]. User Huckandraz formerly seemed mainly interested in New York City artist [[Judy Rifka]].

No comment, just pointing it out.

Hey, where is all that gay porn he uploaded? I wanted to spice up the article but all I could find was this.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Hey, where is all that gay porn he uploaded? I wanted to spice up the article but all I could find was this.

Hey, you are right, loads of it seem to have disappeared without even a trace in the logs, such as, e.g. 'The_making_of_an_adult_film_by_David_Shankbone.jpg' series. The topic is a bit lacking in gay interest, isn't it?

There must have been 'behind the scene' discussion about all those 'scenes of behinds'. The page really needs another dick on it ... glans.

It seems Jimbo had a lot deleted back in January, and covered for Shankbone, when the Pee-dia landed on the Australian Communications and Media Authority blacklist. Sexually explicit images were featuring three men including ... guess who ... Michael Lucas having anal intercourse. Shankbone told Wikinews that he had "no comment for this story." I wonder if our discussion is having yet another a positive effect on the Pee-dia. Matt Barber, a constitutional law attorney and policy director for 'Concerned Women for America' was leaning on the Department of Justice and the U.S. Attorney's office.

You could always upload some for him again from Freebase or elsewhere: here, here or go for the full portraiture of ... male anus. And the pissing goat series is still there. Arguably, on the basis of my recent Wikipedia research, that must include two kinks; zoophilia and urolagnia, and speaking of zoophilia, other of his work might appear under pseudonyms such as I Smell Beaver or Lucas Entertain and god knows what other sock accounts?

If you want a reminder of his best work try the pure genius evidence of ... The Taint. Original version, here.

I guess Jimbo sees it good for him to have the word Pee-dia flaunted around all those picture taken VIPs.

Surely, his greatest notability lies in the homeless woman tampon incident aka "Is my tampon showing?".

Choice images are disappearing off Flickr, davidshankbone.wordpress.com blog has now gone too ... blog was locked from bots.

I dont suppose EricBarbour is an equivalent reliable source?

Christ, what a shitty, ego-ridden blog. And worse: he appears to have a gang of followers, who post sniveling twaddle under his entries.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Alison]

Someone seems to have created a BLP of [[David Shankbone]]. User Huckandraz formerly seemed mainly interested in New York City artist [[Judy Rifka]].

No comment, just pointing it out.

Hey, where is all that gay porn he uploaded? I wanted to spice up the article but all I could find was this.

Slim's now removed that and replaced it with a nice, innocuous pic of Whoopi Goldberg. I think I preferred the S&M one - it's somewhat more representative of his field (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[EricBarbour]

If you want a reminder of his best work try the pure genius evidence of ... The Taint.

Eeeeexcellent. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[carbuncle]

Choice images are disappearing off Flickr, davidshankbone.wordpress.com blog has now gone too ... blog was locked from bots.

That friendfeed link is very interesting. When I put my cursor over the images that say "This image currently unavailable" it gives me little pop-ups that say: "David Saranga", "Novelist John Reed as Sarah Palin", "Sexy David Saranga", and "David Saranga reflecting on the Great South Bay".

[Eva Destruction]

This bon mot of Wankbone's seems to have slipped by beneath the radar, incidentally.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

That friendfeed link is very interesting. When I put my cursor over the images that say "This image currently unavailable" it gives me little pop-ups that say: "David Saranga", "Novelist John Reed as Sarah Palin", "Sexy David Saranga", and "David Saranga reflecting on the Great South Bay".

What "Sexy David Saranga" hanging out at hard porn director Michael Lucas's Fire Island villa?

Well, that's outed Israeli Consultate media supremo David Saranga then ... he of the 'Women of the Israeli Defense Forces' soft porn editorial and financier to 'David Shankbone Mediterranean Holiday Fund, LLC'.

Doncha just love it when all the Conservatives' prejudices about gays and Jews corrupting the morals of America all collide together in one weekend's cruising up on Fire Island?

As for Novelist John Reed as Sarah Pallin? Oh, I see ... another Shankbone edit fest turned Facebook spat with a reliable source folks, Penguin group website ... and Shanker's Love letters to Michelle Obama group!!! David says ...

We believe that real men like a supportive aggressive streak in their women. Michelle Obama, we want you to be OUR baby mama. We'll treat you right, too.

... which must explains the Slim Virgin free ride.

Slim's a joy to the community, isn't she? She know the rules - she wrote them didn't she - and yet cruises over a whitewashing of a self-penned autobiography whose only references is the man's own personal blog. So it really only a public show of powers ... as she goes on to play ping-pong reverts on a WP:COI allegation and tag teams with Benjiboi who is outed for "shilling for other Lucas COI editors" and "having his own COI with Michael Lucas". It was Benjiboi that moved Michael Lucas (adult film director) to Michael Lucas (director) after Shankbone initiated its move from Michael Lucas (porn star) - Michael Lucas (adult film director).

He claims he has lived in seventeen cities, six states and three countries.<ref name="About">[http://blog.shankbone.org/about/ About David Shankbone], Shankbone.org.</ref> He attended the University of Colorado and Fordham Law School, although the latter he dropped out of one year short of graduation, supposedly due to financial difficulties. He continued with a career in law as a paralegal and described the Fordham experience as a trauma.

What he actually says is ...

In 2006, I left Fordham Law School one year short of graduation. I had missed a few credit card payments and could not qualify for student loans. The school would not help, so I returned to life as a paralegal. My sense of failure and financial devastation drove me to the verge of collapse

.
I mean, my English language interpretative skills are poor but wasn't it his screw up over finances and failure to find more that were traumatic rather than "Fordham"? Poor dear ...

Meanwhile, here and here: Shankbone as WatchingWhales keep on with the Lucas Entertainment PR.

Of course, wasn't it Slim that remind recently us that sockpuppeting and WP:COI were not necessary offences at all ... unless, I presume, they were being done by someone that was opposing her.

Which bring me to the best laugh of the day ... pure genuis.

We should probably remove Category:LGBT people until this is properly sourced, per WP:BLP. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 11:37, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

[A Horse With No Name]

"Citizen journalist"? You mean "amateur journalist," no? Has Mr. Miller ever been paid for his work? If not, then he is an amateur -- there is no such thing as a "citizen journalist." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

[carbuncle]

As for Novelist John Reed as Sarah Pallin? Oh, I see ... another Shankbone edit fest turned Facebook spat with a reliable source folks, Penguin group website ... and Shanker's Love letters to Michelle Obama group!!! David says ...

We believe that real men like a supportive aggressive streak in their women. Michelle Obama, we want you to be OUR baby mama. We'll treat you right, too.

... which must explains the Slim Virgin free ride.

John Reed must have a hard-working proofreader and editor:

Penguin/Plume Books has very graciously offered me this opportunity to blog for a week on their site. I believe I will be unvetted (we'll see). To their mistake, I intended to add my own. My new book, All The World's A Grave: A New Play by William Shakespeare, contains a brief essay at the end. Before my wise editor got a hold of it, it was not brief, and I though to unload the whole story of my childhood, and rational for writing a new work by Shakespeare (I took apart all the known works and put them back together as a new tragedy), right here, for half a dozen people to see.

That last sentence is something else.

[carbuncle]

Perhaps someone would like to mention at the AFD that Adam Rose, who wrote the Shankbone piece in the Columbia Journalism Review, did so as an intern there. That would be why his contact email on the CJR article is one from nyu.edu. Just saying. Also, this item on Rose's blog has an interesting but likely coincidental connection...

[A Horse With No Name]

Question: how many other heads of state have been interviewed by the amateur...uh, "citizen" journalists of Wikinews? The puff piece...uh, article gives the impression that the heads of state turn up every week on Wikinews.

[Eva Destruction]

Question: how many other heads of state have been interviewed by the amateur...uh, "citizen" journalists of Wikinews? The puff piece...uh, article gives the impression that the heads of state turn up every week on Wikinews.

Hey, be fair to Wikinews. They obviously have their finger on the pulse. It's not as if anyone cares about that "Afghan election overturned by the UN" or "Civil war breaking out in Pakistan" trivia when there are Australian Football League results to report.

[carbuncle]

I just want to make sure this is documented here, lest anyone think that WR is simply a nest of petty whiners and complainers who see collusion and intrigue in the smallest comment.

Keep. To have a profile in the Columbia Journalism Review seems to establish notability in and of itself, because it's significant coverage in a reliable source, which is what Wikipedia:Notability requires. In addition, there are the Haaretz and Information Week articles that are actually about him, not just containing passing reference to him; his work being used by The New York Times and Encylopaedia Britannica; and the comic strip based on his work in Time Out. SlimVirgin talk|contribs 13:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

* Whoa, Slim, I'm going to stop you right there. His work is "used by the Encylopaedia Britannica" in the sense that my work is "used by Wikipedia"; he happens to have uploaded some photos to the user-editable section of the E.B., and anyone else could do the same. If "used by the Encylopaedia Britannica" in this context is grounds for an article, then I'll get writing on LaraLove and Realist2 on the basis of their Maynard James Keenan and Michael Jackson Wikipedia articles being ripped off borrowed by the BBC. – iridescent 13:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I think Iridescent demolishes the Britannica claim, but here's a link to the Time Out cartoon, which says underneath:

"Want an illustrator to draw a comic strip based on your New York City photo? Email us your pictures now!"

I don't think SlimVirgin would accept that as evidence of notability for anyone other than Shankbone.

[Tarc]

I was about to ponder the eDrama that a potential AfD would generate, but we're already there; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

[Eva Destruction]

I just want to make sure this is documented here, lest anyone think that WR is simply a nest of petty whiners and complainers who see collusion and intrigue in the smallest comment.

Keep. To have a profile in the Columbia Journalism Review seems to establish notability in and of itself, because it's significant coverage in a reliable source, which is what Wikipedia:Notability requires. In addition, there are the Haaretz and Information Week articles that are actually about him, not just containing passing reference to him; his work being used by The New York Times and Encylopaedia Britannica; and the comic strip based on his work in Time Out. SlimVirgin talk|contribs 13:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

* Whoa, Slim, I'm going to stop you right there. His work is "used by the Encylopaedia Britannica" in the sense that my work is "used by Wikipedia"; he happens to have uploaded some photos to the user-editable section of the E.B., and anyone else could do the same. If "used by the Encylopaedia Britannica" in this context is grounds for an article, then I'll get writing on LaraLove and Realist2 on the basis of their Maynard James Keenan and Michael Jackson Wikipedia articles being ripped off borrowed by the BBC. – iridescent 13:23, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I think Iridescent demolishes the Britannica claim, but here's a link to the Time Out cartoon, which says underneath:

"Want an illustrator to draw a comic strip based on your New York City photo? Email us your pictures now!"

I don't think SlimVirgin would accept that as evidence of notability for anyone other than Shankbone.

Slim if you're reading this, I'm not sure that the "mention in the press = warrants a biography" line is one you really want to be pushing too hard.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

"Citizen journalist"? You mean "amateur journalist," no? Has Mr. Miller ever been paid for his work? If not, then he is an amateur -- there is no such thing as a "citizen journalist." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

All the easier to be the "first" then, isn't it? The entire profession started off as "citizens"?

Slim if you're reading this, I'm not sure that the "mention in the press = warrants a biography" line is one you really want to be pushing too hard.

Good point ... David Shankbone is not a real person. It is Pee-dia role play character. And her MO has just been de-bunked. So who is ready to roll out a Slim Virgin topic on that same rational?

Do it now and keep them both busy for a bit.

As for Adam ... it is a confirmed hit. Adam is current working on a piece on "citizen journalism".

I finally, just today, was able to read the article about me in the Columbia Journalism Review. It's two pages and thoroughly researched. Adam Rose's writing is good, and he sat with me for about 10 hours over three meetings to work on the story.

He interviewed a few of my interviewees, and I directed him to the haters' threads at the Wikipedia Review and to my former nemesis User:THF to learn what critics think.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[A Horse With No Name]

Did not the entire profession start off as "citizens"?

Uh, the AfD is not about the history of journalism -- it is about a bald gay man in New York who takes snapshots and puts them on the Internet. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

PS Is there a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shankbone article, too? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[Alison]

PS Is there a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shankbone article, too? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

[A Horse With No Name]

PS Is there a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shankbone article, too? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

That is scary. I sorta imagine a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shank article could come with a .wav file of Peter Graves from "Airplane!" asking the kid if he ever saw a grown man naked. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[The Wales Hunter]

The logic of some astounds me!

# Keep He was featured in Wikinews [2], there a picture of him shaking hands with the president of Israel. There are plenty of mentions of him in the news, references to reliable sources already in the article. Dream Focus 17:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Given there have been pictures of the Mayor of London and myself shaking hands in dead-tree newspapers, should I have an article? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[carbuncle]

PS Is there a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shankbone article, too? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

That is scary. I sorta imagine a Simple Wikipedia version of the Shank article could come with a .wav file of Peter Graves from "Airplane!" asking the kid if he ever saw a grown man naked. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Do you supoose you could limit your homophobic comments to only two per any thread regarding Shankbone, Benjiboi, or any other openly gay editor or subject? Even fewer would be better. Thanks! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

Do you supoose you could limit your homophobic comments to only two per any thread regarding Shankbone, Benjiboi, or any other openly gay editor or subject? Even fewer would be better. Thanks! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Okay...but I guess that means I'll have to save my If-Shankbone-Was-In-Kenneth-Pinyan's-Place joke for another time. Bummer. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

[CharlotteWebb]

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

Si solum omnes vicipaediae unus cervix habuerunt! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

That is, I wonder if his buddies care to remake a certain late-70s classic. Horsey can appear in a cameo!

[A Horse With No Name]

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

Si solum omnes vicipaediae unus cervix habuerunt! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

That is, I wonder if his buddies care to remake a certain late-70s classic. Horsey can appear in a cameo!

I don't get the reference, but the idea of being on camera with Shankbone doesn't suggest it will be a G-rated family friendly flick. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

One question that never got answered, in view of our hero's Israeli hijinks: has Shankbone ever met Topol?

[Milton Roe]

No, but there's a Latin one ... kinda! So his BLP is proliferating already - such is the way.

Si solum omnes vicipaediae unus cervix habuerunt! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

That is, I wonder if his buddies care to remake a certain late-70s classic. Horsey can appear in a cameo!

Animal House? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

"If only all encyclopedias had one neck [to cut]"

Utinam populus romanus unam cervicem haberet (Caligula)

[A Horse With No Name]

Utinam populus romanus unam cervicem haberet (Caligula)

Never studied Latin...ya lost me. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

However, that reminds me of my pick for the single dumbest AfD nomination -- by TenPoundHammer (who else?) -- and one of the funniest closing remarks -- by RHMED: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Claudius_(film)

[Milton Roe]

Utinam populus romanus unam cervicem haberet (Caligula)

Never studied Latin...ya lost me. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

If only the Roman people had one neck.

Imperfect subjunctive. All together again, class, since the Jesuits are not pleased. If only the Jesuits were pleased. Utinam Societatis Iesu commodo erant. No, that means all of them, stupid! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)

[Juliancolton]

The logic of some astounds me!

# Keep He was featured in Wikinews [2], there a picture of him shaking hands with the president of Israel. There are plenty of mentions of him in the news, references to reliable sources already in the article. Dream Focus 17:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Given there have been pictures of the Mayor of London and myself shaking hands in dead-tree newspapers, should I have an article? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Indeed; especially considering that David himself wrote that Wikinews page.

[carbuncle]

The logic of some astounds me!

# Keep He was featured in Wikinews [2], there a picture of him shaking hands with the president of Israel. There are plenty of mentions of him in the news, references to reliable sources already in the article. Dream Focus 17:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Given there have been pictures of the Mayor of London and myself shaking hands in dead-tree newspapers, should I have an article? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Indeed; especially considering that David himself wrote that Wikinews page.

But not this one. I think Shankbone would be wise to ask for the bio to be deleted, but I'm sure he's enjoying the show in the meantime.

Although Benjiboi's "duck test sniffer tells me this was created as a way to harass him," I think most clueful people suspect otherwise. The creator of the Shankbone bio was User:Huckandraz. Huckandraz seems to be connected to [[John Reed (novelist)]] and related subjects, as does Shankbone.

[RMHED]

The logic of some astounds me!

# Keep He was featured in Wikinews [2], there a picture of him shaking hands with the president of Israel. There are plenty of mentions of him in the news, references to reliable sources already in the article. Dream Focus 17:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Given there have been pictures of the Mayor of London and myself shaking hands in dead-tree newspapers, should I have an article? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Indeed; especially considering that David himself wrote that Wikinews page.

But not this one. I think Shankbone would be wise to ask for the bio to be deleted, but I'm sure he's enjoying the show in the meantime.

Although Benjiboi's "duck test sniffer tells me this was created as a way to harass him," I think most clueful people suspect otherwise. The creator of the Shankbone bio was User:Huckandraz. Huckandraz seems to be connected to [[John Reed (novelist)]] and related subjects, as does Shankbone.

Shankbone loves attention which is why it's best just to ignore the pratt. stupid self aggrandizing twat.

This post has been edited by RMHED:

[A Horse With No Name]

Hmmm, the AfD looks like a No Consensus, with a heavy Keep element fueled by academia's answer to the Keystone Kops, the Article Rescue Squadron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

Let's all join hands and pray that Stifle shows up at the end of AfD, ignores everything that is written, and deletes it. (It's happened before, of course.)

[The Wales Hunter]

Technically, a borderline BLP with no-consensus should default to "delete".

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Just following up on the general silliness of this David Shanbone, his exploitation of the Wikipedia online encyclopedia for personal advancement, and the Wiki-elite support of him ...

• Over here, on the Administrators' noticeboard David Shankbone has a hissy over editors naming Israeli diplomat David Saranga on his snapshop taken at Porn King Michael Lucas's home alleging a Wikipedia Review conspiracy.

Howdy everyone. The subject image is not used anywhere in Wikimedia, yet its history shows that it has been very controversial. Recently, the Wikipedia Review has launched a harassment campaign related to me that 1) tried to have me topic banned on Wikipedia; 2) blacklist my blog; and 3) edit-war over this photo. Through OR on the Wikipedia Review a person in the photograph is being identified without any evidence ("looks like him"). The edit summaries are full of accusations against me, OR and BLP violations. Could someone please protect the image to remove the OR?

• Over here on Wikimedia Commons Shankbone scweams and scweams ...

(Undo revision by Proabivouac the person is unidentified, and you do not know their identity beyond speculation, which makes this OR and creates BLP issues)

• But over here, on English Wikipedia is the exact same snapshot uploaded by Shankbone with Israeli diplomat David Saranga clearly named.

Credibility ... moi? What is credibility when one can have celebrity instead? Give the man his own Pee-dia page now!

Lucas has mean while obviously been taking lessons in diplomacy from Saranga on Fire Island given his inspired letter to the US president.

Lucas sent a letter to US President Barack Obama following the Canadian Border Services Agency's refusal to allow shipments containing DVDs of Lucas Entertainment's 'Farts!' and 'Piss!' to cross the border on the grounds that disallowing gay porn shipments into Canada could harm both countries' economies. I had no idea it was such a moral and high brow milieu.

Dear Mr. President:

Farts! and Piss! were seized by the Canadian Border Services Agency and deemed obscene according to their (and in my opinion, antiquated) decency standards.

There are a number of issues here that concern myself and international trade, and I believe you are the only person who can rectify this situation at this moment in time.
 
Since you will be meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada today, I urge you to make what I detail below an item on your agenda, if it is not already a topic of conversation. I know that one of your points of discussion will be coordinating our nation's economic stimulus plan with Canada's. 

Farts! and Piss!, just two of the productions that were denied importation into Canada, are highly successful titles from my Lucas Raunch line. Both have gone on to be among my best sellers in 2008 ... Piss! is also nominated for a GAYVN award for Best Fetish Video ...

Sincerely,

Michael Lucas

No, it is not dated 1 April. More related dirt digging documented here on a blog called Wiki-Hell.

"Nobody goes to Israel for Golda Meir, I'm so sorry," Lucas said in heavily Russian-accented English. "People don't care that you have a great orchestra, and they're not particularly interested in the Holocaust museum. Gay people, and straight people, want beautiful beaches, beautiful nature, beautiful men and women, good food, good hotels ... They need me."

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Happy drinker]

I agree that it should be deleted.

I am far from agreeing with what seems to be the prevalentl opinion of David Shankbone around here. He has supplied many good and useful pictures to the project; some are decidedly risque, true, but Wikipedia and Commons are not censored. However, being a good contributor doesn't of itself make someone notable. I don't think there's an article on Charles Matthews, one of the very best contributors we have, even though he has been mentioned in serious newspaper articles.

[MZMcBride]

The deletion discussion seems to be split about 50 / 50 right now. Or possibly leaning toward "keep"; too lazy to count. Ugh.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

One of Benjiboi's funnier comments in defence of David Shankbone was that his extensive photographic contribution to the Pee-dia was an "art project" thereby inferring some greater noble purpose than the obvious act of self-promotion it became.

Of course, the donation of the many neutral photographs has been a wonderful thing for the Pee-dia. I do not question that. Had it not been for the unclassy self-promotion and personal indulgences, it would have been a generous enough act ... depending on how valuable you consider the Pee-dia to be overall, how valuable thumbnailed cult of popular celebrity is ... and how damaging you consider the cult of the amateur over professionalism.

Perhaps not that valuable at all as it is all leading to a lower of media standards.

Avoiding the wank of "what is art?" (and it is not art, it is as someone else wrote, a bald gay man uploading pictures to the internet and promoting himself) and on a purely practical level (adopting a pout and whine) ...

why cant I have my contributions re-written as an art project too?

I tell you, it was 'art ... Art ... ART' all along, darlings (making large waving arm movements) because my friends say so. Now forgive me ... accept me ... worship me for my celebrity as I can deliver for you a little bit of their celebrity ... and you too share in it!!!

Wake up wiki-serfs ... are we building this pyramid for no pay for sakes of "free access to the sum of all human knowledge for all" ... or "free access to the sum of all human celebrity" for a few?

Hold on ... pass me the amyl nitrate quick I am starting to sober up.

[Somey]

No, it is not dated 1 April.

Are you sure? That's one of the most hilarious things I've ever read in my whole life!

Ya gotta wonder about these people... Just when you think they can't get any more ludicrous, ridiculous, and laughable, they come up with stuff like this.

I am far from agreeing with what seems to be the prevalentl opinion of David Shankbone around here. He has supplied many good and useful pictures to the project; some are decidedly risque, true, but Wikipedia and Commons are not censored...

Just what do you think the prevalent opinion of Mr. Shankers is, actually? I mean, you're sort of new around here...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as Shankers is an active, unbanned user on Wikipedia, nobody from Wikipedia has any right to criticize us or anyone else for any sort of alleged immoral, unethical, or otherwise unpleasant behavior whatsoever. We retain absolute moral superiority over Wikipedia as long as he's there, and for that matter, so does practically every other interactive website in existence. (Well, within reason I suppose.)

[Viridae]

The deletion discussion seems to be split about 50 / 50 right now. Or possibly leaning toward "keep"; too lazy to count. Ugh.

The keep arguments are as weak as fuck though.

[Happy drinker]

Just what do you think the prevalent opinion of Mr. Shankers is, actually? I mean, you're sort of new around here...

I get the impression that he is regarded as a blatant self-publicist, who just into it for his own glory. He is derided for posting obscene photos, maybe of himself. Maybe so, but I don't care why someone contributes as long as they improve the project (which as I say is not censored). People there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV (whether I agree with it or not) are not welcome.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as Shankers is an active, unbanned user on Wikipedia, nobody from Wikipedia has any right to criticize us or anyone else for any sort of alleged immoral, unethical, or otherwise unpleasant behavior whatsoever. We retain absolute moral superiority over Wikipedia as long as he's there, and for that matter, so does practically every other interactive website in existence. (Well, within reason I suppose.)

If an editor on Wikipedia threatened to assault another editor, he'd be banned on the spot, wouldn't he? There'd be ructions here if he wasn't, right? What's the policy here?

This post has been edited by Happy drinker:

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

If an editor on Wikipedia threatened to assault another editor, he'd be banned on the spot, wouldn't he? There'd be ructions here if he wasn't, right? What's the policy here?

I suppose it depends on who, here, you are thinking of assaulting!

The way I look at it, the kind of individuals you want on the project are those that are self-censoring.

Going to the wiki, IMHO, should be like going to work. If you slapped hardcore porn all around your booth, spent company expenses holidaying your pornstar girlfriend or used your position to push your politics ... you would lose your job, wouldn't you?

Are you sure? That's one of the most hilarious things I've ever read in my whole life!

Ya gotta wonder about these people... Just when you think they can't get any more ludicrous, ridiculous, and laughable, they come up with stuff like this.

Yup, there is the original on site. Lucas, who also posted a video of himself having oral sex with doll baby and licking its (invisible) genitalia goes further ... you don't want to read the rest. He has it in for Obama and is certainly playing the propaganda game. The Saranga/government connection raises questions as the Shankbone connection on the other side ought do for sincere Wikipedians.

There are 'some' ... right?

Porn O'Phile

Despite his beauty, build, billions and big boner, Michael Lucas and I have something in common: our abiding adoration of men's pretty posterior pucker ... Lucas reappears in Scene 5 to seduce and anally amuse and abuse a burly, furry Texan named Ashland Stone (a producer of Viral Videos for Barack Obama). Lucas must like him, for he rims the dude after ...

So what we are doing here, again I take it, is going into microcosm and studying the values and milieu ... the nature of the font from which all this Wiki-wisdom, Pee-dia principles and flows.

Sensationalist media whores laughing as they see how far they can push boundaries surely?

The Pee-dia suffers from an institutional confusion of 'notoriety' with 'notability'.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Brutus]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

This post has been edited by Brutus:

[Robert Roberts]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

I am not into pornography

http://blog.shankbone.org/2009/06/19/gay-p...stream-america/

[Random832]

I get the impression that he is regarded as a blatant self-publicist, who just into it for his own glory. He is derided for posting obscene photos, maybe of himself. Maybe so,

Maybe so, but AFAIK that's not the reason for what Somey said. Maybe he does that so that people will believe that's the reason he's disliked.

[thekohser]

Just what do you think the prevalent opinion of Mr. Shankers is, actually? I mean, you're sort of new around here...

I get the impression that he is regarded as a blatant self-publicist, who just into it for his own glory. He is derided for posting obscene photos, maybe of himself. Maybe so, but I don't care why someone contributes as long as they improve the project (which as I say is not censored). People there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV (whether I agree with it or not) are not welcome.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as Shankers is an active, unbanned user on Wikipedia, nobody from Wikipedia has any right to criticize us or anyone else for any sort of alleged immoral, unethical, or otherwise unpleasant behavior whatsoever. We retain absolute moral superiority over Wikipedia as long as he's there, and for that matter, so does practically every other interactive website in existence. (Well, within reason I suppose.)

If an editor on Wikipedia threatened to assault another editor, he'd be banned on the spot, wouldn't he? There'd be ructions here if he wasn't, right? What's the policy here?

Hey, Happy... Do me a favor. I'm just curious of what your opinion is of the contributions Shankbone has made to Meta Wikimedia? Also, what are your thoughts on the time when he published a statement on Wikipedia that if I didn't stop removing the image of his chihuahua riding illegally on the NY subway system, he would retaliate in "a way you cannot even imagine"?

I'm just curious to hear how an apologist such as yourself would successfully frame these issues.

Also, note that if I say I have a desire to punch someone in the face, that does not mean I have any intention of carrying that out. Also, with the "victim" hiding behind a veil of a psedonym, it's rather silly to express dismay over such a statement.

Besides, don't worry. Your value as an entertainment prop is growing on me.

Looking forward to your answers!

[Kelly Martin]

Still, I don't think he belongs on the Fordham Law School Alumni List if he didn't actually graduate, does he?

The technical definition of an alumnus is someone who matriculated at that institution. Graduation is not required.

[taiwopanfob]

If an editor on Wikipedia threatened to assault another editor, he'd be banned on the spot, wouldn't he? There'd be ructions here if he wasn't, right? What's the policy here?

You can't strip context from the 'threat', shithead. So, just to help the discussion (*cough*) along, here is the 'threat' again for you:

Anonymous cult-apologist fuckwits who refer to the BLP victims as "fair game" desperately need to be punched in the face. Hard.

Now, this is not my website, and maybe Somey and the other ranking people around here don't like this kind of talk. This is a position I fully respect.

However, the 'threat' remains in effect until you, and your ilk, withdraw your threat to push random, innocent, non-notable by any reasonable standard, people through the Wikipedia BLP meat-grinder and laugh about it.

Seems entirely reasonable to me. More than reasonable in fact, as your 'face' will always heal ... but a BLP victim is for life, as far as you fucktards are concerned.

This post has been edited by taiwopanfob:

[carbuncle]

Just what do you think the prevalent opinion of Mr. Shankers is, actually? I mean, you're sort of new around here...

I get the impression that he is regarded as a blatant self-publicist, who just into it for his own glory. He is derided for posting obscene photos, maybe of himself. Maybe so, but I don't care why someone contributes as long as they improve the project (which as I say is not censored). People there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV (whether I agree with it or not) are not welcome.

Happy drinker, let me add a question to your list - if WP is not censored, as you have said a couple of times now, why did Jimmy Wales delete several Shankbone images of a gay porn film shoot? (No points for guessing the director of that film.)

[taiwopanfob]

Also, with the "victim" hiding behind a veil of a psedonym, it's rather silly to express dismay over such a statement.

Indeed. But even if the yoyo was completely in the clear, my 'threat' would still stand, as I am carefully crafting them as a 'need'. I have absolutely no intention to punch anyone in the face, nor encourage anyone to do so (if only because of likelihood of self-injury -- it's not worth it!). But if some BLP victim did corner Mr. Drinker in an alley somewhere and knee him in the testicles, until Mr. Drinker abandons his odious position on BLP, that's just justice served as far as I am concerned.

Looking forward to your answers!

I have at least 3 open questions with the guy. Lot's of evasion and ignoring; no answers yet though.

This post has been edited by taiwopanfob:

[grievous]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

This is precicely why we should all be voting and praying to keep this article. Make 'boner's lament getting what he wished for.

[Robert Roberts]

Can we get the fire island pictures in?

[grievous]

Can we get the fire island pictures in?

If they're under CC license, then they sure could be.

Though this article made me throw up in my mouth a little when I read it, he passes the marginally notable criteria based on the couple of citations of articles profiling him and his work on the 'pedias. You could argue that he's [[WP:BLP1E]] but it's obvious he doesn't want to opt out. So give him the BLP he deserves. Document his work on improving the gay porn articles with images. Document his relationship with Lucas Entertainment. Bone it up!

[Milton Roe]

"Nobody goes to Israel for Golda Meir, I'm so sorry," Lucas said in heavily Russian-accented English. "People don't care that you have a great orchestra, and they're not particularly interested in the Holocaust museum. Gay people, and straight people, want beautiful beaches, beautiful nature, beautiful men and women, good food, good hotels ... They need me."

In that case, I think he's got Israel confused with the South Pacific.

Paul Gauguin, Zionist. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[Cedric]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

This is precicely why we should all be voting and praying to keep this article. Make 'boner's lament getting what he wished for.

That seems to me inevitable, and when it happens I shall feel no pity for him. Check out this bit of weepy-whinyness of Slim Shanky from just last year. Even if Shanky was amping it up as per usual and his complaints of stalking were only half true, it is still a clear demonstration that he has good cause to abhor the very thought of having a Wikipedia BLP on himself. If a couple of edits to the BLP of his porn producer buddy was enough to subject him to a spate of stalking, what on earth does he expect from a BLP of his very own? Could it be any more clear that Shanky's lust for self-promotion has utterly overwhelmed whatever rationality that he has left to him?

[Milton Roe]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

This is precicely why we should all be voting and praying to keep this article. Make 'boner's lament getting what he wished for.

That seems to me inevitable, and when it happens I shall feel no pity for him. Check out this bit of weepy-whinyness of Slim Shanky from just last year. Even if Shanky was amping it up as per usual and his complaints of stalking were only half true, it is still a clear demonstration that he has good cause to abhor the very thought of having a Wikipedia BLP on himself. If a couple of edits to the BLP of his porn producer buddy was enough to subject him to a spate of stalking, what on earth does he expect from a BLP of his very own? Could it be any more clear that Shanky's lust for self-promotion has utterly overwhelmed whatever rationality that he has left to him?

Probaby at this instant, yes. Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will all no other. Wait till he gets some direct education.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Can we get the fire island pictures in?

Sure ... it would be a good way of sealing the David Saranga connection. Why not crop it down a bit and re-list it?

But my preference would be with the cock, balls and anus ones ... given his comments, they are obviously 'not' pornography after all.

So, if Michael Lucas wrote to the Pee-dia because he was unhappy about his topic page ... because he was originally listed as "prostitute" but preferred "male escort" and wanted his name changed ... by who and why was the letter forwarded to Shankbone?

The cited references says

Lucas then worked as a hustler -- earning money through prostitution to open up his own porn production company in New York City.

Is this a special service Jimbo offers everyone else with a background in the sex industry?

I apologise if I risk being accused of trying to get to the bottom of this one.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[A Horse With No Name]

I apologise if I risk being accused of trying to get to the bottom of this one.

Don't worry, you'll get it in the end! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[grievous]

Also note Huckandraz (T-C-L-K-R-D) 's edits to this university's web page under notable alumni. This section was forked off into a page of its own by Y (T-C-L-K-R-D) on the same date.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[CharlotteWebb]

Also note Huckandraz (T-C-L-K-R-D) 's edits to this university's web page under notable alumni. This section was forked off into a page of its own by Y (T-C-L-K-R-D) on the same date.

For what it's worth "Y" previously identified as a graduate of the same institution (in addition to a couple other degrees from NYU). Granted I don't have diffs on-hand and they might not still exist.

[grievous]

Also note Huckandraz (T-C-L-K-R-D) 's edits to this university's web page under notable alumni. This section was forked off into a page of its own by Y (T-C-L-K-R-D) on the same date.

For what it's worth "Y" previously identified as a graduate of the same institution (in addition to a couple other degrees from NYU). Granted I don't have diffs on-hand and they might not still exist.

Must give him a boner to be included with the likes of Jack Ford (news anchor), John Mara, and G. Gordon Liddy. So traumatic that he didn't graduate.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[Happy drinker]

Also, note that if I say I have a desire to punch someone in the face, that does not mean I have any intention of carrying that out. Also, with the "victim" hiding behind a veil of a psedonym, it's rather silly to express dismay over such a statement.

That's worth knowing - if you say something you don't mean it. Pseudonym? Is your name really "thekohser"?

Anonymous cult-apologist fuckwits who refer to the BLP victims as "fair game" desperately need to be punched in the face. Hard.

Anonymous? Is your name really 'taiwopanfob'? And that's not what I said at all. I said that those who advocate "dead tree notability" say that anyone who gets into a reference work becomes fair game. I on the contrary believe that such people should be treated no worse than anyone else - everything about them must be justified by reliable, verifiable sources (which of course excludes scandal rags).

Happy drinker, let me add a question to your list - if WP is not censored, as you have said a couple of times now, why did Jimmy Wales delete several Shankbone images of a gay porn film shoot? (No points for guessing the director of that film.)

I have no idea; I didn't even know he had. Ask him.

until Mr. Drinker abandons his odious position on BLP

It's odious to demand that everything in a BLP is sourced to reliable, verifiable sources? It's odious to refuse to treat people who get into encyclopedias less favourably than others? And please stop making so many assumptions about me.

This post has been edited by Happy drinker:

[thekohser]

Also, note that if I say I have a desire to punch someone in the face, that does not mean I have any intention of carrying that out. Also, with the "victim" hiding behind a veil of a psedonym, it's rather silly to express dismay over such a statement.

That's worth knowing - if you say something you don't mean it. Pseudonym? Is your name really "thekohser"? Anyway, no doubt I'll be outed some time.

No, I still mean what I said. I still have the urge to punch you in the face. I think it would do you some good, in the long run. There's certain uninformed smugness about you that I'll just bet could be knocked out of you. However, there is little chance that I would act upon this urge, because I respect the law more highly than catering to my instinctive urges.

If you don't know my name, where I live, and probably even my cell phone number, and you cannot find these bits of data within 45 seconds on the Internet, you may be retarded. Seek professional evaluation.

Is this Guy Chapman?

How are you coming on those answers to the questions associated with the topic of this thread?

Gregory J. Kohs
Aka "Thekohser"
West Chester, PA
Cell phone: Dial "R" for retarded

[taiwopanfob]

It's odious to demand that everything in a BLP is sourced to reliable, verifiable sources?

You've been told that everyone knows what is written on the side of the bottle.

The problem, as everyone is telling you, is that the label does not reflect the contents of the bottle.

We have options now, which I'll order in increasing likelihood:

1. We are all wrong, and the label and contents are in fact consistent with each other. Or can be made to be agree with minimal work. Unfortunately, there is far too much hard data and rational argument against this position. (A big hint being that if it was a solvable problem within the existing WP policy framework, it would have been solved by this point.)

2. You are completely unaware that the label is inconsistent with contents. Hard to believe. I'd also have to assume you are an ineducable moron, and you've asked me to stop making assumptions.

3. You know that the label is a lie. This is more believable, but it does make you a liar. This is a simple model. Some of your behavior is in accordance with this model, but I feel the model probably too simple.

4. You don't care what the contents of the bottle are, just the text of the label. This is much more likely case. Sadly, it is probably the worst case too. But all your observed behavior fits. Ignoring or evading questions that lead you to examine the contents of the bottle being a big one.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Aside: Someone needs to create an Mediawiki extension where 'my avatar' can fight with 'your avatar', each given different powers, weapons and abilities on an almost random basis/edit-count/who-we-know, so we can push angry electrons around the internet and work these disputes out; not get all tied up over figures of speech. In fact, it should be automated so we don't even have to do it ... just run a script and see who wins.

This Shankbone thing is becoming ridiculous ... "writer". He has gone from someone that uploads snapshots on a website to a 'photographer' and a blogger to a 'writer'.

With notoriety ... which if I was him (in his frame of mind), I would be working hard. In New York, he will probably make the next step to celebrity. There are a lot of people who buy 'bad boy' and laugh at the pettiness of the Pee-dia. I could imagine an exhibition of large blows of his "porn film set" series. He could easily print to canvas and call them "art" (there is this inkjet technology where you can print vast gallery-sized blowups of digital photographs), later do exhibitions of famous people ... and at around the same time the first best-of-the-blog book.

If I was huck and raz, I would have him signed up as an agent ... 15-20% commission. If I was David, I would try speaking to Paul or Salman again, and hold out for a more established agent (unless, of course, Huck or Raz are).

Come on guys ... from their myspace:

Huck & Raz

Promoting books and illiteracy since 1998

One editor, one agent

Just what he needs ... are we watching the next step of self-promotion in real time?

The problem is he needs to work on his photography a lot more (and his consistency promoting the "by_David_Shankbone.jpg" brand) ... not necessarily making it better (the cheapo paparazzi stuff is really not very good and he needs to stop taking 'school girl pictures of "me with famous people mum"). I mean not trying, making it look crappier and casual, even more amateur, would work better ... "the cult of the amateur portraying the cult of the celebrity".

He need to have his ass kicked (rather than prodded) a bit by a good, established art director/editor/galleriste; and not his dick sucked by another sycophantic friend or amateur. Play around with some lenses and angles. Drop ANY pretention like claiming his wiki-work was an "art project, darling" (it wasn't). Step up to the next league.

He has access to very good material which, unless he works it, wont last for ever ... and he is wasting right now. There are too many paparazzi chasing too little money. I doubt he has the muscle for that life. It is the wrong way to go. Heading for the galleries, the high end of the pink dollar, La La Land etc is.

In a sense, he is actually a bit trapped by all the psychotic faux academic administrators on the Pee-dia and at having to pretend to play nice and be more conservative than any real adult would or needs to be. He should really say, "fuck it ... this is who I am, this is what I want, I am using the Wiki" and go for it. Stop bothering about the silly kids Wikigame. And it is very silly. Play a grown ups game now for all it is worth.

Big canvases of disheveled beds in banal, tacky, empty porno sets at art prices, a more affordable range of limited edition prints. The idea could sell. There are lots of relatives and precedents in the art gallery photographic world. With the subject he has had access to, it is a real shame he has not got a half-decent book to send around.

In fact, once he "makes it", which I actually think he has a reasonable chance of doing so, he should even turn back around and bite the hand that fed him: be honest about how he used it, care about how stupid people are to give their lives to it be sucked in and exploited for nothing but tell the world how nasty it can be ... milking it for the sympathy factor (e.g. full of crazy stalkers and how it nearly destroyed his life, something should be done about it etc). Shanker does Oprah ...

If he could become REALLY famous, then he could have some real fun, like juxtaposing his genital and excretion work with his celeb work; split screen 'pissing goats and starlets', 'Perez and his Hebrew incontinence pants' ... be really provocative. It would not work at this stage but once he was established, they would be lining up to be offended by him. Cock_and_ass_by_David_Shanbone.jpg ... yes, its doable.

Of course, then 'psychotic faux academics' will have a whole generation of "wannabe_David_Shankbones_by_wannabe_David_Shankbones.jpg" photographers on the Pee-dia to contend with trying to copy him and be even more outrageous to compete, like all the Corinne Day copies after 'heroin chic' phase. But, just by dint of all his contributions, he has a good chance of becoming the first person ('Bo Whale apart), to use the Pee-dia to gain celebrity and turn it into a good living. There is probably only room for one or two people to do so before it become old news. He could be one, the other could be a serious author/critic. Sadly a comicbook artist would come way down the list ...

I don't know the guy at all. I don't know the history. I don't know what he "deserves" but, like they say, "work makes free ... and the wiki brings out the worst in people".

The lesson is, efforts bring rewards despite how awful you might or might not be in real life.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Achromatic]

Play around with some lenses and angles.

At the risk of coming across like a camera snob (and with a due nod to the fact that some of the best photographs/photographers used cameras worse than you'd pick up today for $5 in a thrift store), I'm fairly sure Shankbone (proudly) uses a digital compact camera with not so much as an external flash (which, given some of his Myspace-quality celeb-deer-in-headlights "portraits", explains a lot).

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

At the risk of coming across like a camera snob ...

You are absolutely correct. You could make better pictures with a cardboard box with a hole it in, (as an aside, do a google for 'digital pinhole camera').

The fact is, if he has ... ahem ... publishished 4,000 plus shapshots ... and has access to the "A-List" .... and has an in with the NYC gay/Jewish media mafia (ask Steven Meisel) ... and that is the best he can do so far ... the guy is not a 'photographer'. So fuck Virgin, Fanboi and Huck & Raz off. He is not a 'writer' until he is properly published. He is not "noted" so who are they all trying to kid?

They are all such wankers really.

If David screws this opportunity up ... and remains a tiny bit part player ... he really is an idiot. Which is why I would say he is better going for a deliberately sub-myspace look and working his 'bad' photos of people people who take bad photos normally cant reach ... which is basically his "thing". Upping the 'scale', ups the price and changing the medium, makes more of a statement about what he is doing.

So what is he, or could he be? Well, I suppose one of that sub-culture who have leaned their ladders up against the wall for being "famous for being famous" and of whom no one remember why ... albeit he is in a tiny pond right now.

You can turn that into art without any talent whatsoever. You can even turn artlessness into an art if you are good. Has he got it in him?

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Alison]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

May be ... but more likely the whorehounds of wiki-hell will descend upon 67.160.100.233 digging up some microscopic poo-poo and tripping him up on a technicality.

67.160.100.233 is right, there is something wrong going on, but unfortunately they lack the skill and knowledge to present it all ... and the anon status will work against them.

The "it's me" summary messages are a little bit revealing, n'est-ce pas? it's me, John, saw typo, fixing my own typo. By the way, it's still me, John, it's me, John, correcting pub info ,

For Shankbone though, continued criticism and attention is a risk. He would have a lot more to gain, and create more cool, by coming over to the dark side and spilling beans. Who outside of the Israeli Consulate - and uninformed elderly politicians - really believes in the "leading Wikipedian" tosh?

His worst enemies are not the likes of Wikipedia Review, but his fanboi sets. Unless he outgrows them all, and the limits of "being one of us", he will end up as being "someone who once uploaded lots of snapshots to the pee-dia".

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[carbuncle]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Someone needs to point out that [[John Reed (novelist)]] is the same John Reed who is on the staff of the Brooklyn Rail. It is obvious that some of those accounts are John Reed, but I'm not sure that Huckandraz is him. What do we know about his wife?

[the fieryangel]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Someone needs to point out that [[John Reed (novelist)]] is the same John Reed who is on the staff of the Brooklyn Rail. It is obvious that some of those accounts are John Reed, but I'm not sure that Huckandraz is him. What do we know about his wife?

John Reed? He's so notable that references to his books are put into articles about such things as Shakespeare's Hamlet before the books in question are even published!

Of course, since we're assuming good faith here, it's obvious that Vanguard121 (T-C-L-K-R-D) has nothing to do with John Reed...

Just to make my position perfectly clear, I hope that Shankbone gets his wish and the article is kept...I can't think of anyone more deserving of a WP BLP...

[Happy drinker]

How are you coming on those answers to the questions associated with the topic of this thread?

I assumed it was the custom here not to respond to questions. People don't respond to mine.

It's odious to demand that everything in a BLP is sourced to reliable, verifiable sources?

You've been told that everyone knows what is written on the side of the bottle.

The problem, as everyone is telling you, is that the label does not reflect the contents of the bottle.

That's why sources must be verifiable (so people can check for themselves if they wish) and reliable. Wikipedia is a tertiary source; it reports what reliable, verifiable secondary sources say.

[dogbiscuit]

It's odious to demand that everything in a BLP is sourced to reliable, verifiable sources?

You've been told that everyone knows what is written on the side of the bottle.

The problem, as everyone is telling you, is that the label does not reflect the contents of the bottle.

That's why sources must be verifiable (so people can check for themselves if they wish) and reliable. Wikipedia is a tertiary source; it reports what reliable, verifiable secondary sources say.

Ah, the Bellman's Rule of Three approach to the problem. Figures.

[thekohser]

How are you coming on those answers to the questions associated with the topic of this thread?

I assumed it was the custom here not to respond to questions. People don't respond to mine.

I'm sorry, I didn't see any questions you posed in this thread about the subject of this thread. I posed two such questions to you:

What do you think of David's contributions to Meta Wikimedia?

What do you think of his "more trouble than you can imagine" threat?

If you'll repeat your question(s), I'll do my best to answer them. But, I am a very busy man with a real job, real service to my real community, and a real family.

[A Horse With No Name]

Someone needs to point out that [[John Reed (novelist)]] is the same John Reed who is on the staff of the Brooklyn Rail. It is obvious that some of those accounts are John Reed, but I'm not sure that Huckandraz is him. What do we know about his wife?

I believe she likes to sing 80s pop tunes in the shower. I will gladly volunteer to confirm that information. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

P.S. I suspect Shankbone is canvassing friends to come in and vote: Tony the Marine (aka Marine 69-71) is a pal of Mr. Miller and he almost never participates in AfDs or any discussion not related to Puerto Rican subjects. Funny that he abruptly shows up with strong support. Ditto Master of Puppets (who is a very occasional AfD voter) and Andrew Dalby (who I don't recall ever seeing in AfD -- if he plays there, it is very rare). And, of course, PeteForsythe (sp?) weighed in, too.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Brutus]

Someone has gotta massage Shankbones interest in gay porn and images into that article.

This is precicely why we should all be voting and praying to keep this article. Make 'boner's lament getting what he wished for.

You know whatever the general consensus is here about this article, they will do the opposite over on the Afd debate. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

So I hope nobody adds ground breaking modern art photography like Goat urinating on an organic farm in Israel into the Shankbone article.

This post has been edited by Brutus:

[grievous]

SlimVirgin (T-C-L-K-R-D) seems to be showing an unusual amount of ownership on this article. The goat peeing picture was added and she quickly reverted. Several choice celebrity portraits such as the infamous Walken and Jim Carroll photos were added then quickly removed by her.

For someone who touts himself as the preeminient wiki-photog, it seems strange that the article only posts the lone Whoopi Goldberg photo.

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, I can't make jokes about Stifle's uber-deletionist antics anymore: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321380762

[MZMcBride]

Gregory J. Kohs
Aka "Thekohser"
West Chester, PA
Cell phone: Dial "R" for retarded

Wait, you're retarded?

[Milton Roe]

Well, I can't make jokes about Stifle's uber-deletionist antics anymore: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321380762

I'm no particular fan of David Shankbone (David Miller seems much nicer. Seriously), but I don't want to see him suffering the kind of BLP-related attacks that others have had to deal with here - Alison ❤ 02:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

That's sweet of you, Alison, but I actually do want to see him suffering the kind of BLP-related attacks that others have had to deal with. As [[David Miller]]. Until such point as he requests the thing be deleted. At which point I'd like to see him refused. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Thus, enlightenment. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif) We won't get a photo of him changing his own tampon (I hope) but we'll get something.

The enlightenment may possibly come not only for him, but for the crowd (by then) committed to watching his BLP, as one of WP "in crowd" whose BLPs are specially watched.

One of the good ways to get rid of a bad policy is to ensure that it's uniformly applied. The only reason we still have BLP on Wikipedia is that people like Jimbo Wales are granted special dispensations from addition of over-inflammatory content, and people like Carolyn Doran are granted special dispensation not to appear at all. But grant enough indulgences to the in-crowd on WP, and the system will start to groan and creak. Even more than it does already. At THAT point, perhaps we can begin to come to the realization that BLP is nasty thing, period, and get rid of it altogether. We'll never do that so long as WP's present double-standards apply.

[anthony]

I don't care why someone contributes as long as they improve the project (which as I say is not censored). People there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV (whether I agree with it or not) are not welcome.

Err...What if they are there there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV, but they improve the project?

This post has been edited by anthony:

[grievous]

The plot thickens further:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321430095

Update: Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been blocked by Cirt (T-C-L-K-R-D) based on claims of violating WP:POINT for one edit of inclusion of Shankbone's peeing goat picture which was reverted by SlimVirgin (T-C-L-K-R-D) . Hardly a case of edit warring and disruption.

Apparently, the argument now is that while Shankbone may be notable, his contributions to the project are not and thus are not worthy of inclusion in an article by him. Does this mean that if there's an article about a photographer or painter who's works are in the public domain or otherwise freely available should not include examples of that subject's work?

This post has been edited by grievous:

[Kelly Martin]

While trying to find the AN/I discussion on this latest bit of Shankboning, I got distracted by the gripping tale of poor Nipple37 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who was apparently banned for having an overly lewd username.

Is there nothing that is incapable of frothing Wikipedians into a frenzy?

[A Horse With No Name]

Update: Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been blocked by Cirt (T-C-L-K-R-D) based on claims of violating WP:POINT for one edit of inclusion of Shankbone's peeing goat picture which was reverted by SlimVirgin (T-C-L-K-R-D) . Hardly a case of edit warring and disruption.

Cirt is one of the most incompetent admins on WP. I cannot believe that Durova ramrodded that idiot through RfA.

I am surprised that no one has put up one of those "This is not a numerical vote" templates on the AfD page -- or even raised questions about pro-Miller canvassing (which is becoming increasingly obvious).

While trying to find the AN/I discussion on this latest bit of Shankboning, I got distracted by the gripping tale of poor Nipple37 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who was apparently banned for having an overly lewd username.

Is there nothing that is incapable of frothing Wikipedians into a frenzy?

Nipples? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

[Milton Roe]

While trying to find the AN/I discussion on this latest bit of Shankboning, I got distracted by the gripping tale of poor Nipple37 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who was apparently banned for having an overly lewd username.

Is there nothing that is incapable of frothing Wikipedians into a frenzy?

Hard to believe, but you're right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321252001

Isn't Orange Mike (T-C-L-K-R-D) a sweetie? I think we've heard of him here on WR, no?

[Happy drinker]

But, I am a very busy man with a real job, real service to my real community, and a real family.

As I too have a real job, do much community service and have a family, I have no time to do this.

Gregory J. Kohs
Aka "Thekohser"
West Chester, PA
Cell phone: Dial "R" for retarded

Wait, you're retarded?

Please, let's not make personal attacks.

Err...What if they are there there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV, but they improve the project?

Then they're pretty poor disrupters/POV pushers. It's a simple application of WP:IAR. If they genuinely improve the project with only minimal side effects, then cut them a bit of slack. Otherwise, don't. Peter Damian is a good example. As I said on another thread, he is a good editor and I'm really sorry to lose him, but really his negative effects were causing problems.

[anthony]

Err...What if they are there there to disrupt the project, or to push their own POV, but they improve the project?

Then they're pretty poor disrupters/POV pushers.

I guess that depends on whether or not the best way to improve the project is to disrupt it.

[Eva Destruction]

I guess that depends on whether or not the best way to improve the project is to disrupt it.

To judge by Wikipedia's general history, the best way to disrupt the project is to try to improve it.

[tarantino]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Someone needs to point out that [[John Reed (novelist)]] is the same John Reed who is on the staff of the Brooklyn Rail. It is obvious that some of those accounts are John Reed, but I'm not sure that Huckandraz is him. What do we know about his wife?

Also, Judy Rifka, an article that Huckandraz started, is John Reed's mother and David Reed is his father. I have little doubt that Huckandraz is John Reed, along with half a dozen other user names.

[Lar]

Gregory J. Kohs
Aka "Thekohser"
West Chester, PA
Cell phone: Dial "R" for retarded

Wait, you're retarded?

Please, let's not make personal attacks.

If you want to be effective here, you may want to remember that this isn't Wikipedia and certain policies (such as [[WP:NPA]] do not apply here. It is a bit more rough and tumble here, and if you want respect you have to earn it. Even so, you'll get insults from time to time. Best to ignore them if you can.

Hope that helps.

As a personal observation, you're not off to a very good start credibility-wise.

[A Horse With No Name]

Hmmm - I strongly suspect that this discussion brewing on ANI may prove interesting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Someone needs to point out that [[John Reed (novelist)]] is the same John Reed who is on the staff of the Brooklyn Rail. It is obvious that some of those accounts are John Reed, but I'm not sure that Huckandraz is him. What do we know about his wife?

Also, Judy Rifka, an article that Huckandraz started, is John Reed's mother and David Reed is his father. I have little doubt that Huckandraz is John Reed, along with half a dozen other user names.

And AdjustShift gets into the fun by blocking an IP who is critical of Mr. Miller -- but the IP states that AdjustShift is a "sockpuppet administrator" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321379869

Now comes the $64,000 Question: what socks are we talking about? And does Arbcom and the CU fun bunch know what is going on?

I will put the question out to our Arbcom friends and our occasional CU visitors: is the IP correct in stating AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer?

[Lar]

I will put the question out to our Arbcom friends and our occasional CU visitors: is the IP correct in stating AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer?

I should answer this question (here, no less!!!) because ... ???

[Somey]

The people who are helping Shankers pursue his self-promotional activities on WP really should try and understand something: Shankers is a ticking time-bomb. Not just your ordinary narcissist - a potentially dangerous one. Eventually, someone will criticize him or try to thwart him in a way that will simply cause him to explode, just as he has at least twice before that we know of. And it will happen again, and again, and again, until they finally fnd a way to rid themselves of him - assuming they even dare try at that point. Having an article about him will only make him that much harder to get rid of.

I'd say "I told you so" in advance, but of course that will make it less fun for me when the shit hits the fan.

[Kelly Martin]

While trying to find the AN/I discussion on this latest bit of Shankboning, I got distracted by the gripping tale of poor Nipple37 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who was apparently banned for having an overly lewd username.

Is there nothing that is incapable of frothing Wikipedians into a frenzy?

Hard to believe, but you're right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321252001

Isn't Orange Mike (T-C-L-K-R-D) a sweetie? I think we've heard of him here on WR, no?

It appears that the reapl problem in this situatin is Rschen7754 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who is apparently unwilling to back down from the hard rule that "no username may have 'nipple' in it", and doesn't believe in communicating. The 'community' (that is, the dramawhores at ANI) are apparently satisfied by his statement that he'll "stay away from UAA for a while".

This is an example of someone who should not be an admin. That Wikipedia cannot see this is yet more proof of their fundamental stupidity.

I strongly urge people to create accounts containing the name "Nipple" just to make Rschen twitch.

As a personal observation, you're not off to a very good start credibility-wise.

It's really hard to build up much credibility when you're stuck with living under a bridge.

[A Horse With No Name]

I will put the question out to our Arbcom friends and our occasional CU visitors: is the IP correct in stating AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer?

I should answer this question (here, no less!!!) because ... ???

Well, is the IP correct in stating that AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer or not? If it is not, then there is no harm in saying no.

But if AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer and you and the other checkusers know about it, then an explanation is in order on why AS is able to function as an admin despite this violation of policy -- which is particularly odd considering that Law/TU got banned and two well-regarded admins got desysopped for an identical situation.

It is amazing how difficult it is to get a straightforward yes or no answer from WP people.

[thekohser]

But, I am a very busy man with a real job, real service to my real community, and a real family.

As I too have a real job, do much community service and have a family, I have no time to do this.

And, I'm going to choose to believe that at least two of these items are lies. Because you have no real-world identity here, "Happy drinker", so I'm assigning one in my mind for you; and in my vision, you dropped out of community college because you spent too much time playing Second Life, and now you keep bees for organic farm pollination but you're only getting a few farmers to even consider you, so you're having trouble making ends meet. And you still live with your mom, so that's your "family" bit. You might prefer using proxy IP addresses to further disguise how your Internet use resolves to just your mom's ISP about 6 days a week, for 15 hours a day.

I may be wrong.

But, I may be right.

Who knows? Because you're too cowardly to identify yourself the way grown and stable adults do when they enter a community new to them, we can't know. So, I'm entitled to my imaginary "back story" for you.

[EricBarbour]

And, I'm going to choose to believe that at least two of these items are lies. Because you have no real-world identity here, "Happy drinker", so I'm assigning one in my mind for you; and in my vision, you dropped out of community college because you spent too much time playing Second Life, and now you keep bees for organic farm pollination but you're only getting a few farmers to even consider you, so you're having trouble making ends meet. And you still live with your mom, so that's your "family" bit.

Sounds about right. And besides, isn't it a bit strange that he showed up on WR only
one day after the Shankbone BLP was created? Timing's a bit odd, eh?

[everyking]

These deletion votes are a funny thing. Someone can make national headlines and their article will be deleted (WP:NOTNEWS! WP:BLP1E!!), but David Shankbone--who is, as far as I can tell, nothing but a shameless self-promoter and a rather unpleasant member of the Wikipedia community--should have an article? Seriously? In any case, the article looks like a vanity piece probably written by Shankbone himself or by a friend with Shankbone's encouragement. If he chose some other avenue aside from Wikipedia to promote himself, this would be treated as one of those laughable vanity articles that gets unanimous delete votes.

[Malleus]

The 'community' (that is, the dramawhores at ANI) are apparently satisfied by his statement that he'll "stay away from UAA for a while".

Which planet are you speaking from? Who is satisfied exactly? Certainly not me.

I think that this site may be a little more credible if it did not promote the same misguided idea that wikipedia does, a simplistic belief in a community.

This post has been edited by Malleus:

[Kelly Martin]

The 'community' (that is, the dramawhores at ANI) are apparently satisfied by his statement that he'll "stay away from UAA for a while".

Which planet are you speaking from? Who is satisfied exactly? Certainly not me.

I think that this site may be a little more credible if it did not promote the same misguided idea that wikipedia does, a simplistic belief in a community.

The discussion was closed even after your efforts to keep it going, and I don't see any signs of anyone trying to reopen it or move it elsewhere, so I'd say that at least the bulk of the 'community' that hangs out at AN/I is satisfied.

Please note the quotes on the word 'community'. I am using it in the Wikipedia sense there, not the natural sense. In Wikipedian, 'community' means something akin to 'random gang of dramawhores', although it's somewhat more complicated than that.

Then again, that I was speaking in this manner was clear from my prior post. Do you, perhaps, have some sort of reading comprehension difficulties to go along with your previously-displayed deficits in reasoning and logic?

[Malleus]

Then again, that I was speaking in this manner was clear from my prior post. Do you, perhaps, have some sort of reading comprehension difficulties to go along with your previously-displayed deficits in reasoning and logic?

What I have is a deep sense of being pissed off with the evident dishonesty and stupidity of this site. I shall not be posting here again.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Oh, I just woke up to the fact that the Babyrock / Easyreeder user is easy reed er ...

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week for disruptive editing and harassing User:David Shankbone ... After analyzing the edits of 67.160.100.233, all I see is disruption, disruption, and disruption. This sort of edits are unacceptable, IMO. The IP not only accused David Shankbone of "sockpuppetry", but also accused Benjiboi of trying to "cover up" sockpuppetry. The IP is being disruptive, and harassing David Shankbone. I will block the IP for 1 week.

User:AdjustShift

Well, that is it then ... 67.160.100.233 is fucked. Tarnished to death. Punished for not having a real fake identity. The rallying cry has gone out to the faithful ... and is who the fixer User:AdjustShift? Just a serial gopher bashing admin close to our own NuclearWarfare dragged in to 'fix' this.

But what was that "disruptive" edit?

Benjiboi, why are you trying to cover up that User:WatchingWhales is Mr. Shankbone's sockpuppet? That's what you've been blanking.

Why? User:67.160.100.233

Of course, that is perfectly true but it does not matter. WatchingWhales is David Shankbone's sockpuppet, as many other accounts.

Another Wikipedian is blocked for telling the truth and pointing out favoritism, nepotism and abuse ... and the investigations are ritually made "taboo" for anyone else to risk bring up or discussing again.

[Lar]

It is amazing how difficult it is to get a straightforward yes or no answer from WP people.

I agree. I recall asking you, a WP person, a yes or no question the other day and you gave me folderol. It was an easy one too, merely about how you yourself intended to release something. Instead of yes/no, what I got was attitude.

You asked rather a harder question, one that doesn't admit of an easy answer. I see no reason to answer it here. I choose not to even say if anyone has or hasn't looked into it (although someone else may choose to, I shan't).

But what goes around comes around, so when you berate others for not answering yes/no questions... I do like you, but do keep that in mind, Horsey.

Then again, that I was speaking in this manner was clear from my prior post. Do you, perhaps, have some sort of reading comprehension difficulties to go along with your previously-displayed deficits in reasoning and logic?

What I have is a deep sense of being pissed off with the evident dishonesty and stupidity of this site. I shall not be posting here again.

Kelly isn't the whole site.

[Kelly Martin]

Kelly isn't the whole site.

Can you prove that? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[anthony]

Then again, that I was speaking in this manner was clear from my prior post. Do you, perhaps, have some sort of reading comprehension difficulties to go along with your previously-displayed deficits in reasoning and logic?

What I have is a deep sense of being pissed off with the evident dishonesty and stupidity of this site. I shall not be posting here again.

One down. Good job Kelly.

[A Horse With No Name]

It is amazing how difficult it is to get a straightforward yes or no answer from WP people.

I agree. I recall asking you, a WP person, a yes or no question the other day and you gave me folderol. It was an easy one too, merely about how you yourself intended to release something. Instead of yes/no, what I got was attitude.

That is a stupid analogy. I specifically posted a ready-to-run stubby article here with the open statement that anyone who wants it can put it on Wikipedia. For no clear reason, a couple of people who don't seem to comprehend English kept insisting that I clarify a statement that any six year old could understood. There is a huge difference between that (where the answer was obvious to anyone who could read) and asking whether the IP is correct in his insistence that AdjustShift is a sock (which is far more complex, since there is no open answer).

You asked rather a harder question, one that doesn't admit of an easy answer. I see no reason to answer it here. I choose not to even say if anyone has or hasn't looked into it (although someone else may choose to, I shan't).

It seems peculiar for this IP to pull such a wild accusation out of thin air and stick it someone who, truth be told, has not been a disruptive force on Wikipedia. If the accusation was that AdjustShift was a Martian, I could ignore it. If it was that AdjustShift is co-starring in "Men of Israel 2: Studs of the Knesset", I could shrug it off. But this comes out of nowhere and there is reason for concern since AdjustShift specifically asked for IP block exemption for his account -- that smells.

This reminds me of half of Arbcom's blatant refusal to explain whether or not they already knew Law was The Undertow. I guess the power clique only investigates and harasses people they don't like and coddles their friends -- which may explain why Mr. Miller (the founder of our feast) is getting protected.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Lar]

Kelly isn't the whole site.

Can you prove that? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Can't prove the negative. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Can you prove you ARE the whole site?

It is amazing how difficult it is to get a straightforward yes or no answer from WP people.

I agree. I recall asking you, a WP person, a yes or no question the other day and you gave me folderol. It was an easy one too, merely about how you yourself intended to release something. Instead of yes/no, what I got was attitude.

That is a stupid analogy.

Except it's not an analogy. Merely a statement that you declined to answer a simple yes/no question directly. It would not have been a lot of trouble to do so but you decided to be a prat about it when it would have cost you nothing to just answer "yes".

Whatever. But don't wonder why I choose not to do you any favors.

It seems peculiar for this IP to pull such a wild accusation out of thin air and stick it someone who, truth be told, has not been a disruptive force on Wikipedia. If the accusation was that AdjustShift was a Martian, I could ignore it. If it was that AdjustShift is co-starring in "Men of Israel 2: Studs of the Knesset", I could shrug it off. But this comes out of nowhere and there is reason for concern since AdjustShift specifically asked for IP block exemption for his account -- that smells.

This reminds me of half of Arbcom's blatant refusal to explain whether or not they already knew Law was The Undertow. I guess the power clique only investigates and harasses people they don't like and coddles their friends -- which may explain why Mr. Miller (the founder of our feast) is getting protected.

Sure, it's peculiar. But without a solid basis for the check, it isn't a checkable check. Some further information besides "it seems peculiar" is needed. Especially when the check would need to be run by someone who isn't in the "power clique"... I prefer to be able to justify any check I run if I'm asked, especially since I was (rather maliciously, in my view, and certainly unjustly) accused of CU related issues already by someone who is (or at least was, but I think IS) in the "power clique".

So it would require considerable effort to put together a case that justified the check. Effort I decline to expend just on your request, because you pissed me off. I'm petty that way, and I have other stuff that needs doing with higher urgency.

I still like you and I'll probably get over it eventually. But there you are. Don't piss people off if you want favors. That's how this particular MMORPG is played. Something Peter Damien, Moulton, and Guido den Broeder (to pick a few random examples, but there are plenty more) need to figure out.

Someone needs to put it up on Wiki (usually at WP:SPI). I would prefer to keep official business on-wiki, and I think Lar feels the same way.

That too.

[No one of consequence]

But if AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer and you and the other checkusers know about it, then an explanation is in order on why AS is able to function as an admin despite this violation of policy -- which is particularly odd considering that Law/TU got banned and two well-regarded admins got desysopped for an identical situation.

Someone needs to put it up on Wiki (usually at WP:SPI). I would prefer to keep official business on-wiki, and I think Lar feels the same way.

[Robert Roberts]

what are the socks?

[Kelly Martin]

But if AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer and you and the other checkusers know about it, then an explanation is in order on why AS is able to function as an admin despite this violation of policy -- which is particularly odd considering that Law/TU got banned and two well-regarded admins got desysopped for an identical situation.

Someone needs to put it up on Wiki (usually at WP:SPI). I would prefer to keep official business on-wiki, and I think Lar feels the same way.

"I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear."

Wikipedians always have an ample supply of ready excuses for not hearing inconvenient things.

[anthony]

Kelly isn't the whole site.

Can you prove that? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Can't prove the negative. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Which statement is the negative? "There exists a part of the site which isn't Kelly" or "There does not exist a part of the site which isn't Kelly"?

Either way, you generally *can* prove the negative.

It is amazing how difficult it is to get a straightforward yes or no answer from WP people.

I agree. I recall asking you, a WP person, a yes or no question the other day and you gave me folderol. It was an easy one too, merely about how you yourself intended to release something. Instead of yes/no, what I got was attitude.

That is a stupid analogy.

Except it's not an analogy. Merely a statement that you declined to answer a simple yes/no question directly.

I need to set up a Knol or something entitled "An Example Is Not An Analogy". (Unlike "Ironic Does Not Mean Coincidental", this one doesn't seem to have been written, but the mistake certainly comes up often enough to set up an anti-meme against it.)

This post has been edited by anthony:

[A Horse With No Name]

Except it's not an analogy. Merely a statement that you declined to answer a simple yes/no question directly. It would not have been a lot of trouble to do so but you decided to be a prat about it when it would have cost you nothing to just answer "yes".

Whatever. But don't wonder why I choose not to do you any favors.

You seem to be protesting a little too much and a little too loud. You are also personalizing something which was never addressed to you -- I didn't even realize you were a CU until you started bleating about this.

Sure, it's peculiar. But without a solid basis for the check, it isn't a checkable check. Some further information besides "it seems peculiar" is needed. Especially when the check would need to be run by someone who isn't in the "power clique"... I prefer to be able to justify any check I run if I'm asked, especially since I was (rather maliciously, in my view, and certainly unjustly) accused of CU related issues already by someone who is (or at least was, but I think IS) in the "power clique".

I guess the definition of "solid basis" is fairly liquid. People have been thrown before the CU magnifying glass for much, much less than the IP's statement.

So it would require considerable effort to put together a case that justified the check. Effort I decline to expend just on your request, because you pissed me off. I'm petty that way, and I have other stuff that needs doing with higher urgency.

Really? Then what are you doing here, talking to a man who thinks he is a horse? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif)

If you want to protect your friend, I have no problems with that.

I still like you and I'll probably get over it eventually. But there you are. Don't piss people off if you want favors. That's how this particular MMORPG is played. Something Peter Damien, Moulton, and Guido den Broeder (to pick a few random examples, but there are plenty more) need to figure out.

I never asked you for "favors." Stop picking fights, it is obnoxious.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Lar]

But if AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer and you and the other checkusers know about it, then an explanation is in order on why AS is able to function as an admin despite this violation of policy -- which is particularly odd considering that Law/TU got banned and two well-regarded admins got desysopped for an identical situation.

Someone needs to put it up on Wiki (usually at WP:SPI). I would prefer to keep official business on-wiki, and I think Lar feels the same way.

"I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear."

Wikipedians always have an ample supply of ready excuses for not hearing inconvenient things.

This is not confined to Wikipedia, it's generally true. Try visiting DMV sometime (heck, any bureaucracy).

Stop picking fights, it is obnoxious.

Mr. Pot... call your office. Mr. Kettle is waiting to take a meeting.

[Kelly Martin]

Wikipedians always have an ample supply of ready excuses for not hearing inconvenient things.

This is not confined to Wikipedia, it's generally true. Try visiting DMV sometime (heck, any bureaucracy).

Doesn't make it right.

Besides, the reason bureaucrats do these things is mainly ass-covering: those rules are intended to contain risk and following them is simply a good way to keep one's job. Wikipedians aren't being paid, so that's not a factor. So why are y'all so concerned about ass-covering that you won't take actions that any reasonable person would see are in the best interest of the project, just because you've made some arbitrary, self-imposed rule against them?

[Moulton]

Don't piss people off if you want favors. That's how this particular MMORPG is played. Something Peter Damien, Moulton, and Guido den Broeder (to pick a few random examples, but there are plenty more) need to figure out.

Lar, did you just edge another notch closer to acknowledging that WikiCulture departs substantially from what it originally purported to be?

Not only does WikiCulture eschew such fundamental concepts of good governance as due process, but it also adopts the stance of a game of rivalry between competing gangs given to corruption and backstabbing, all for the sake of the thrilling dramaturgy of the gameplay.

[Cedric]

It appears that the reapl problem in this situatin is Rschen7754 (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who is apparently unwilling to back down from the hard rule that "no username may have 'nipple' in it", and doesn't believe in communicating. The 'community' (that is, the dramawhores at ANI) are apparently satisfied by his statement that he'll "stay away from UAA for a while".

This is an example of someone who should not be an admin. That Wikipedia cannot see this is yet more proof of their fundamental stupidity.

I strongly urge people to create accounts containing the name "Nipple" just to make Rschen twitch.

Now, now. One mustn't tease Der Autobahnenfuehrer. He might have another one of his carpet-chewing episodes and then haul off and invade Poland. Or something.

[Milton Roe]

But if AdjustShift is a sockpuppeteer and you and the other checkusers know about it, then an explanation is in order on why AS is able to function as an admin despite this violation of policy -- which is particularly odd considering that Law/TU got banned and two well-regarded admins got desysopped for an identical situation.

Someone needs to put it up on Wiki (usually at WP:SPI). I would prefer to keep official business on-wiki, and I think Lar feels the same way.

AdjustShift got RfA'ed as quickly and as smoothly as I've ever seen in recent times-- reminiscent of the Old Days. Partly due to his by-the-book answers to gallery questions. The 5 opposes (that's all there were) included Ottava, who I think was mainly just jealous.

That's how to become an admin. Keep head down, kill boars in the forest for Warcraft points, RfA early before anybody has any good gripes and vendettas against you (the Barrack Obama lesson). Study the handbook of Wiki-Hall-of-Mirrors well so you can have the Official Party Answers to the Official 3rd Degree Masonic Questions: "Gee I don't like the state of BLP; it really needs to be more reliable and verifiable..." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

And there you are. Your Shift is now Adjusted. You contol the vertical. You control the horizontal. You're a player and a well-regarded contributor. Neener.

[Moulton]

Neener.

Harrumph.

[A Horse With No Name]

Mr. Pot... call your office. Mr. Kettle is waiting to take a meeting.

Listen, nobody is picking a fight with you. You reacted to the question raised by the IP about AdjustShift as if it was a personal slur -- which is odd, since you were never cited as part of the inquiry.

I will raise one point, however -- some months ago, NuclearWarfare (of all people) stated on his talk page that he was informed by "checkusers" that they were aware of "banned" editors who became admins. He used the plural -- editors and admins.

Now, I have no idea why NW would say such a thing or why any checkuser would confide in him. However, he doesn't strike me as a liar. And considering statements by Risker about how she allows sock accounts to flourish, I am suspicious.

So let me put the question out on the table for any and all checkusers who are reading this: Are there any "banned" editors who are currently admins? A simple Yes or No answer is all that is required.

Don't waste my time telling me what a terrible horse I am or how these inquiries belong on WP or blah blah blah -- just a Yes or No answer will be sufficient. Is NW correct when he says that checkusers know there are "banned" editors as admins, or is that statement incorrect?

Just a Yes or No, please. Thanks.

[LaraLove]

I will raise one point, however -- some months ago, NuclearWarfare (of all people) stated on his talk page that he was informed by "checkusers" that they were aware of "banned" editors who became admins. He used the plural -- editors and admins.

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally. Fascinating.

[A Horse With No Name]

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally. Fascinating.

Grrrrrrr! I love it when you tease me with your sarcasm! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)

[LaraLove]

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally. Fascinating.

Grrrrrrr! I love it when you tease me with your sarcasm! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)

Simmer down. I wasn't being sarcastic. If there are banned users elevated to admins and people know about it, I'd like to see some names.

[edit] To be fair, 9 times out of 10, when I say "fascinating," I'm being sarcastic.

[Happy drinker]

If you want to be effective here, you may want to remember that this isn't Wikipedia and certain policies (such as [[WP:NPA]] do not apply here. It is a bit more rough and tumble here, and if you want respect you have to earn it. Even so, you'll get insults from time to time. Best to ignore them if you can.

Hope that helps.

As a personal observation, you're not off to a very good start credibility-wise.

I'm always happy to receive advice from someone I admire as much as Lar. His participation here was one of the reasons I decided it can't just be a nest of malcontents and must be worth a look. I've already realised WP:NPA doesn't work here, having been threatened with physical violence without a peep from the staff about it. However, I shall personally try to ignore insults and avoid responding in kind.

And, I'm going to choose to believe that at least two of these items are lies ...Because you're too cowardly to identify yourself the way grown and stable adults do when they enter a community new to them, we can't know. So, I'm entitled to my imaginary "back story" for you.

This is a good example of what I shall ignore. I assume, by the way, that since all the staff and moderators are anonymous the above remarks apply equally to them.

[NuclearWarfare]

I will raise one point, however -- some months ago, NuclearWarfare (of all people) stated on his talk page that he was informed by "checkusers" that they were aware of "banned" editors who became admins. He used the plural -- editors and admins.

Multiple editors I am positive of; admins I know of one for sure. ArbCom has indeed been informed of who it is (three times, actually). I only know of it because another administrator consulted with me while performing the investigation to see what I knew (some statements that I had made earlier suggested that I had known that the editor was a sock). It was the investigating administrator, not I, who forwarded the information to ArbCom, so I am unsure if ArbCom found the evidence conclusive enough, though I remember it being quite solid.

Do you have a diff for when I said this though? I might have misphrased it; no checkuser has ever confided in me about allowing a banned editor to become an administrator.

This post has been edited by NuclearWarfare:

[Happy drinker]

And besides, isn't it a bit strange that he showed up on WR only
one day after the Shankbone BLP was created? Timing's a bit odd, eh?

OK, I'm Dr Shankbone. Happy?

[No one of consequence]

So let me put the question out on the table for any and all checkusers who are reading this: Are there any "banned" editors who are currently admins? A simple Yes or No answer is all that is required.

Don't waste my time telling me what a terrible horse I am or how these inquiries belong on WP or blah blah blah -- just a Yes or No answer will be sufficient. Is NW correct when he says that checkusers know there are "banned" editors as admins, or is that statement incorrect?

Just a Yes or No, please. Thanks.

I don't personally know of any, and I wouldn't tolerate it if I did.

[A Horse With No Name]

Do you have a diff for when I said this though? I might have misphrased it; no checkuser has ever confided in me about allowing a banned editor to become an administrator.

I have to go back and look it up. I know it was from earlier in the year.

I don't personally know of any, and I wouldn't tolerate it if I did.

Perfectly fine answer, accepted without question. Thanks and enjoy the day! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Simmer down.

Easier said than done! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

[Somey]

OK, I'm Dr Shankbone. Happy?

Shankers wouldn't be capable of the Anglicisms. Actually, it wouldn't even occur to him that others might be clever enough to even see through his use of a different name, much less an attempt by him to change his style, attitude, and general behavior.

I'm sure you'll slip up sooner or later, though! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Lar]

Don't piss people off if you want favors. That's how this particular MMORPG is played. Something Peter Damien, Moulton, and Guido den Broeder (to pick a few random examples, but there are plenty more) need to figure out.

Lar, did you just edge another notch closer to acknowledging that WikiCulture departs substantially from what it originally purported to be?

Not only does WikiCulture eschew such fundamental concepts of good governance as due process, but it also adopts the stance of a game of rivalry between competing gangs given to corruption and backstabbing, all for the sake of the thrilling dramaturgy of the gameplay.

That's your theory of mind, yes.

Me, when I'm deciding how to spend my volunteer time, I remember who did me favors and who was snarky and obstinate, and decide based in part on that. That's how the MMORPG called "life" works.

So let me put the question out on the table for any and all checkusers who are reading this: Are there any "banned" editors who are currently admins? A simple Yes or No answer is all that is required.

"I don't personally know of any, and I wouldn't tolerate it if I did." strikes me as just about exactly what I would have said if I'd posted first.

So, if someone(*) knows of someone that fits that, you know how to reach me(%). I don't want to hear vague allegations though, it needs to be something solid enough for *me* to be willing to do a check. My standards are somewhere in the middle of the pack, appropriately stringent.

* - glances at NW.
% - this does NOT include use of the WR PM system, which I do not consider secure for sensitive information, thanks.

[A Horse With No Name]

"I don't personally know of any, and I wouldn't tolerate it if I did." strikes me as just about exactly what I would have said if I'd posted first.

Fine. I thought the IP's accusation against AS was strange, but it nonetheless deserved discussion. I am satisfied with the answers that I received and I consider the matter closed.

[NuclearWarfare]

So, if someone(*) knows of someone that fits that, you know how to reach me. I don't want to hear vague allegations though, it needs to be something solid enough for *me* to be willing to do a check. My standards are somewhere in the middle of the pack, appropriately stringent.

* - glances at NW.

I'll send you an email about who to contact.

This post has been edited by NuclearWarfare:

[A Horse With No Name]

OK, I'm Dr Shankbone. Happy?

Now that would be a great Michael Lucas movie: "David Shankbone, M.D." It gives new meaning to the expressions "Open your mouth and say 'Ah!'" and "Let me take your temperature with this thermometer!" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)


And this has to be the most bizarre AfD vote I have seen in ages: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321616505

[LaraLove]

And this has to be the most bizarre AfD vote I have seen in ages: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=321616505

Ah, haha. Too awesome to be genuine.

[Random832]

I will raise one point, however -- some months ago, NuclearWarfare (of all people) stated on his talk page that he was informed by "checkusers" that they were aware of "banned" editors who became admins. He used the plural -- editors and admins.

Multiple editors I am positive of; admins I know of one for sure. ArbCom has indeed been informed of who it is (three times, actually). I only know of it because another administrator consulted with me while performing the investigation to see what I knew (some statements that I had made earlier suggested that I had known that the editor was a sock). It was the investigating administrator, not I, who forwarded the information to ArbCom, so I am unsure if ArbCom found the evidence conclusive enough, though I remember it being quite solid.

Do you have a diff for when I said this though? I might have misphrased it; no checkuser has ever confided in me about allowing a banned editor to become an administrator.

Some background on here - LaraLove was recently or is soon going to be desysopped for knowing about a merely desysopped editor (actually he might have been banned - i'm not sure and i don't care) who returned and became an administrator, so if you have evidence of this happening with someone else / arbcom being made aware and ignoring it, airing it out in public could help to expose some hypocrisy.

This post has been edited by Random832:

[NuclearWarfare]

I will raise one point, however -- some months ago, NuclearWarfare (of all people) stated on his talk page that he was informed by "checkusers" that they were aware of "banned" editors who became admins. He used the plural -- editors and admins.

Multiple editors I am positive of; admins I know of one for sure. ArbCom has indeed been informed of who it is (three times, actually). I only know of it because another administrator consulted with me while performing the investigation to see what I knew (some statements that I had made earlier suggested that I had known that the editor was a sock). It was the investigating administrator, not I, who forwarded the information to ArbCom, so I am unsure if ArbCom found the evidence conclusive enough, though I remember it being quite solid.

Do you have a diff for when I said this though? I might have misphrased it; no checkuser has ever confided in me about allowing a banned editor to become an administrator.

Some background on here - LaraLove was recently or is soon going to be desysopped for knowing about a merely desysopped editor (actually he might have been banned - i'm not sure and i don't care) who returned and became an administrator, so if you have evidence of this happening with someone else / arbcom being made aware and ignoring it, airing it out in public could help to expose some hypocrisy.

Check a couple posts up. I don't have much proof myself, but I know who does. I have told Lar, a checkuser whom I trust, the name of other party who knows the full details. Let's see where this goes.

[LaraLove]

Some background on here - LaraLove was recently or is soon going to be desysopped for knowing about a merely desysopped editor (actually he might have been banned - i'm not sure and i don't care) who returned and became an administrator, so if you have evidence of this happening with someone else / arbcom being made aware and ignoring it, airing it out in public could help to expose some hypocrisy.

I resigned a week or so ago amidst the drama. He was banned. He had appealed, the appeal was apparently going to be granted, but they forgot to hit reply. And here we are.

[A Horse With No Name]

Check a couple posts up. I don't have much proof myself, but I know who does. I have told Lar, a checkuser whom I trust, the name of other party who knows the full details. Let's see where this goes.

Another sock is going to be pulled off? Well, if this goes through then we'll have plenty of juice to sip during November! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Alison]

Der Jimbo has spoken!!

"I think this, and other biographies like it, whether of Wikipedia editors or not, are clear candidates for deletion. If I were to vote, I would vote very strongly for deletion."

So can we go ahead and speedy-delete the thing now? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)


(I am so going to use that quote and diff again and again on BLPs)

[gomi]

Then again, that I was speaking in this manner was clear from my prior post. Do you, perhaps, have some sort of reading comprehension difficulties to go along with your previously-displayed deficits in reasoning and logic?

What I have is a deep sense of being pissed off with the evident dishonesty and stupidity of this site. I shall not be posting here again.

Yet another doofus who does not understand the difference between an encyclopedia and a random website critical of a purported encyclopedia. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. But wait ... your kind always comes back. So, regrettably, we'll see ya on the flip side.

[Edit: Anyone can check the "Last Active" time of a user. For Malleus, at the time of my post here, it was "six minutes ago". It's so hard to say goodbye!]

[Milton Roe]

Der Jimbo has spoken!!

"I think this, and other biographies like it, whether of Wikipedia editors or not, are clear candidates for deletion. If I were to vote, I would vote very strongly for deletion."

So can we go ahead and speedy-delete the thing now? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)


(I am so going to use that quote and diff again and again on BLPs)

It won't do you any good. The "whether of Wikipedia editors or not" part, actually means "especially those of in-favor Wikipedia editors." That's all. You're taking Jimbo's statements at face value. Never safe. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Eva Destruction]

It won't do you any good. The "whether of Wikipedia editors or not" part, actually means "especially those of in-favor Wikipedia editors." That's all. You're taking Jimbo's statements at face value. Never safe. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

In fairness, while he not be great at practising what he preaches, in his public utterances he's always been fairly consistent in sticking to the "default to delete for BLPs" line. (Besides, if he started throwing his weight around to get the things deleted, certain people here would be the first to start accusing him of orchestrating a cover-up.)

Please don't make me defend Jimbo again. I feel I need to wash.

[EricBarbour]

Please don't make me defend Jimbo again. I feel I need to wash.

Whilst you're about that, it would be nice if you could wash away some of the pointless
arguing and dramah being posted on this thread. Geez, some people just have no lives.

(I have a life--tonight I had to bury one of my gf's cats in the backyard.
Cute and sweet little cat, too. Mauled to death by the dog next door for
no apparent reason. What a damn miserable shame.)

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[A Horse With No Name]

Whilst you're about that, it would be nice if you could wash away some of the pointless
arguing and dramah being posted on this thread. Geez, some people just have no lives.

I don't think it is a question of lacking lives, but rather falling into the easy trap of being negative and discouraging. For many people, it is easier to put others down rather than giving them a boost or encouraging them to do positive things.

As a sidenote -- the comedian Soupy Sales passed away this weekend. When I was a teenager, Soupy had a radio show on WNBC-AM in New York. His brand of silly slapstick appealed to me (no surprise there, eh?), and one day I wrote up a bunch of jokes that I thought would be funny if he performed them. I mailed the jokes to him (this was before e-mail, of course) -- and to my surprise, not only did he read them on the air, but also gave me glowing credit for submitting them! He didn't have to do that, of course -- he had a writing staff and, honestly, my teenage jokes weren't that hilarious.

I was so excited about what Soupy did that I called him at the station after his show and spoke to him for a few minutes. He was a very cheerful man and he encouraged me to continue doing what I wanted to do.

I wish that life in general and WP in particular would have more people like Soupy Sales -- being supportive and positive without being sour about the motives of others or expecting anything in return.

(I have a life--tonight I had to bury one of my gf's cats in the backyard.
Cute and sweet little cat, too. Mauled to death by the dog next door for
no apparent reason. What a damn miserable shame.)

Please accept my condolences on this tragic loss.

[The Wales Hunter]

I know OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is never a good argument, but if David Shankbone is notable, then M. Baxter certainly is, too.

http://www.wikipedia-watch.org/baxter.html

With the current focus on the ONS and the economy, I'd not be too surprised if more related references appear, too.

[Kelly Martin]

(I have a life--tonight I had to bury one of my gf's cats in the backyard. Cute and sweet little cat, too. Mauled to death by the dog next door for no apparent reason. What a damn miserable shame.)

When's the dog's burial? Animals like that should be reported to the authorities, and they usually require dogs that maul other animals without explanation to be put down.

Condolences, in any case. I still miss my old cat, who we had to put down in 1991 at the tender age of 16 after he had a series of strokes that left him unable to do anything but turn right. Poor guy.

[Mike H]

I wish that life in general and WP in particular would have more people like Soupy Sales -- being supportive and positive without being sour about the motives of others or expecting anything in return.

For a minute I thought you were ancient based on that name-drop, but I located the years he had the show and it wasn't that long ago. I had no idea he had a radio show after that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Why there's so much of Howard Stern in this, I don't know:

From March 1985 to March 1987, Sales hosted a midday radio show on WNBC radio in New York; Howard Stern had an afternoon show on the same station. Sales and Stern did not get along. There was an incident of Stern's cutting the strings in Sales' in-studio piano at 4:05 p.m. on May 1, 1985. On December 21, 2007, Stern revealed this was a stunt staged for "theater of the mind" and to torture Sales; in truth, the piano was never harmed.[11]

[Milton Roe]

(I have a life--tonight I had to bury one of my gf's cats in the backyard.
Cute and sweet little cat, too. Mauled to death by the dog next door for
no apparent reason. What a damn miserable shame.)

Bummer. I've buried many a loved pet over the years. It's just naked biology, in your face. It's illegal to do it here in many states in the US, including mine (people later digging up animal bones cause forensic timewasting). The illegality is part of WHY I do it. It's a tribute. I want that critter to become part of my own grass and flowers (and worms and bacteria), and screw the State that says I can't.

Time also to contemplate that we're stuck on ball of dirt where things aren't constructed very well to take care of beings that see the future. The human condition, even more than the animal condition, is shit. Animals, particularly if well cared for like mine, live in a sort of timeless-futureless Heaven. If you could see them curled up on my bed, you'd see it's self-evidently true. But, like the guy in Robert Burns' To a Mouse, I never will. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

[CharlotteWebb]

When's the dog's burial? Animals like that should be reported to the authorities, and they usually require dogs that maul other animals without explanation to be put down.

For several years the local people have been leaving unwanted puppies and kittens along the road near my house. I believe this is because they have selected a point just far enough outside the city limits that they will probably not wander back into the jurisdiction of animal control. I'm not sure whether they think animal control can (theoretically) trace the critters back to their original owner or are just doing their part to keep taxes low.

But alas in the interest of "animal welfare" I once tried scooping them all up into a cardboard box and moving the box to a point inside city limits before calling animal control (pretending of course to be somebody who lived inside the line). That worked one time and after that the pet-cops concluded that I was up to no good, so now I don't even bother trying to communicate with them.

I just let my own dogs decide how to handle the situation. Fat-asses need the exercise anyway, so they might as well go play with yonder discarded whelps. If they bring back a little friend alive, we keep it, but let's just say that's not how it usually works. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Tough luck, but anything's gotta be more humane than letting the little shits starve to death, right?

[GlassBeadGame]

It won't do you any good. The "whether of Wikipedia editors or not" part, actually means "especially those of in-favor Wikipedia editors." That's all. You're taking Jimbo's statements at face value. Never safe. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

In fairness, while he not be great at practising what he preaches, in his public utterances he's always been fairly consistent in sticking to the "default to delete for BLPs" line. (Besides, if he started throwing his weight around to get the things deleted, certain people here would be the first to start accusing him of orchestrating a cover-up.)

Please don't make me defend Jimbo again. I feel I need to wash.

It seems to me that Wikipedians who get a BLP are treated much better than those poor souls who get a BLP and then wander onto Wikipedia in the misguided hope that they might get some relief. Equity would require just the opposite.

[Deodand]

It won't do you any good. The "whether of Wikipedia editors or not" part, actually means "especially those of in-favor Wikipedia editors." That's all. You're taking Jimbo's statements at face value. Never safe. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

In fairness, while he not be great at practising what he preaches, in his public utterances he's always been fairly consistent in sticking to the "default to delete for BLPs" line. (Besides, if he started throwing his weight around to get the things deleted, certain people here would be the first to start accusing him of orchestrating a cover-up.)

Please don't make me defend Jimbo again. I feel I need to wash.

It seems to me that Wikipedians who get a BLP are treated much better than those poor souls who get a BLP and then wander onto Wikipedia in the misguided hope that they might get some relief. Equity would require just the opposite.

Equity will not accept a wrong for need of a remedy. Sounds like the opposite to Wikipedia to me.

[Alison]

And it's a keep (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/thumbsdown.gif) Onwards to DRV, I guess.

Hersfold made the call, which couldn't have been easy. Damned if you do/don't (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/shrug.gif)

[cyofee]

Around a month from now, we can start "polishing" the article to a form that describes his photography more accurately.

It's a disgrace that Goatse_wannabe_by_David_Shankbone.jpg (or whatever its name is) isn't in the article.

[Alison]

And open again! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Oh wait! Closed again!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/popcorn.gif)

EDIT: and now at DRV, where the 'overturns' are coming in fast. This is set to run and run .... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

[Somey]

I also took count of the number of "invalid" arguments, these being comments that were simply "per XYZ" without adding additional information; additionally, some of the main arguments I listed above I consider to be invalid. "Tinderbox for BLP problems", for example, is not a reason to delete. Flagged revision is reputedly on its way, and in the meantime and even after that, protection can be used to stop any defamatory content from being added...

So if someone says their argument is essentially in agreement with someone else who posted earlier than they did, their vote was discounted...?

Also, the Flagged Revisions feature has been "reputedly" on its way for over three years now. Of course, it doesn't matter - this particular BLP is never going to mention the fact that he has uploaded dozens of hardcore gay pornography images to WP, or his relationship with pornographer Michael Lucas, or his tendency to disgustingly defame people on Encyclopedia Dramatica when he's challenged, criticized, or thwarted. It isn't going to mention his deviousness, his dishonesty, and his apparent sociopathic narcissism, nor is it going to indicate that the article itself is basically an autobiography.

Standard wikicult behavior, in other words. Forget the truth, forget what actually happened, just stick to the press release.

[anthony]

And open again! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Oh wait! Closed again!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/popcorn.gif)

I'm not sure which is more ridiculous, the nomination or the closure.

I think I've gotta go with the nomination. If Shankbone doesn't want a BLP, let him make his own nomination.

"articles listed are debated for at least seven days"; hasn't been seven days

In other words, my plan to get a wiki-friend to close as a delete, at seven days plus one second, have been foiled.

And the MMORPG rolls on. At least it hasn't taken any innocent victims with it this time.

This post has been edited by anthony:

[cyofee]

So if someone says their argument is essentially in agreement with someone else who posted earlier than they did, their vote was discounted...?

It's in line with the "we're not counting votes but actually we are oh wait we aren't but still we are" that characterizes Wikipedia.

Maybe it means that someone who took the time to type a wall of text feels more strongly about the issue than someone who just said "X, per Y".

[Somey]

Maybe it means that someone who took the time to type a wall of text feels more strongly about the issue than someone who just said "X, per Y".

That's just it - Shankers is a fellow Wikipedian, whether these people like it or not. He's one of them, and anyone who writes a wall of text - especially to say he's "non-notable" - is likely to suffer for it eventually, possibly in the form of a nasty Encyclopedia Dramatica article, or worse. Whereas, if you just say "per So-and-So," maybe Shankers won't be so vindictive.

Even for those who support the article's existence, a smart person wouldn't want to be quoted on it, because you know that's going to come back to haunt the person the next time Shankers does something really horrible, not to mention the time after that, and the time after that, all while remaining unbanned due to all his "strategic alliances" with other really horrible Wikipedians.

Nobody's going to admit to being intimidated, because that looks pathetic. But the fact is, smart people avoid this guy unless they're going to give him what he wants, which is praise. Don't think for a moment that he won't constantly refer back to the list of "opposers" on this AfD, and spend countless hours dreaming up ways to get revenge on them.

[anthony]

So if someone says their argument is essentially in agreement with someone else who posted earlier than they did, their vote was discounted...?

It's in line with the "we're not counting votes but actually we are oh wait we aren't but still we are" that characterizes Wikipedia.

Maybe it means that someone who took the time to type a wall of text feels more strongly about the issue than someone who just said "X, per Y".

I think the argument is that they're counting reasons, not votes. But the reality is that most people pick the method of determining the result depending on what they want the result to be. Especially when they close right at or before the deadline.

[LaraLove]

And open again! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Oh wait! Closed again!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/popcorn.gif)

I'm not sure which is more ridiculous, the nomination or the closure.

I think I've gotta go with the nomination. If Shankbone doesn't want a BLP, let him make his own nomination.

"articles listed are debated for at least seven days"; hasn't been seven days

In other words, my plan to get a wiki-friend to close as a delete, at seven days plus one second, have been foiled.

And the MMORPG rolls on. At least it hasn't taken any innocent victims with it this time.

WTF are you talking about?

First of all, last I read, Shankbone was indifferent on the whole thing. I've emailed asking him what his thoughts are because, to be honest, I don't understand how someone could be indifferent to having a biography on Wikipedia, particularly someone familiar with Wikipedia, and especially when their biography has been subject to BLP violations in a very short time of existence.

Also, your argument is stupid. Seven hours (or six hours and 40 minutes) is quite a bit of time. Excessively early. And while I suppose it's possible that McBride wanted to close it himself or have someone else do it, I think it's far more likely that such an early close was to prevent someone else from closing with a different result.

[cyofee]

Also, your argument is stupid. Seven hours (or six hours and 40 minutes) is quite a bit of time.

Come again? Whose argument is stupid?

[victim of censorship]

Maybe it means that someone who took the time to type a wall of text feels more strongly about the issue than someone who just said "X, per Y".

That's just it - Shankers is a fellow Wikipedian, whether these people like it or not. He's one of them, and anyone who writes a wall of text - especially to say he's "non-notable" - is likely to suffer for it eventually, possibly in the form of a nasty Encyclopedia Dramatica article, or worse. Whereas, if you just say "per So-and-So," maybe Shankers won't be so vindictive.

Even for those who support the article's existence, a smart person wouldn't want to be quoted on it, because you know that's going to come back to haunt the person the next time Shankers does something really horrible, not to mention the time after that, and the time after that, all while remaining unbanned due to all his "strategic alliances" with other really horrible Wikipedians.

Nobody's going to admit to being intimidated, because that looks pathetic. But the fact is, smart people avoid this guy unless they're going to give him what he wants, which is praise. Don't think for a moment that he won't constantly refer back to the list of "opposers" on this AfD, and spend countless hours dreaming up ways to get revenge on them.

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Come to think about it... I think Wikipeidia is a Shanker (Chancre) sore on the internet.

This post has been edited by victim of censorship:

[Milton Roe]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Hooray! VoC has finally caught a long-running WR pun!

Alas, it's not a funny now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

[victim of censorship]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Hooray! VoC has finally caught a long-running WR pun!

Alas, it's not a funny now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

I was not born yesterday, bub...

This post has been edited by victim of censorship:

[Milton Roe]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Hooray! VoC has finally caught a long-running WR pun!

Alas, it's not a funny now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

I was not born yesterday, bub...

We neither.

[CharlotteWebb]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Come to think about it... I think Wikipeidia is a Shanker (Chancre) sore on the internet.

Well, I laughed. Briefly.

[Somey]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot)...

Ha! I never thought of that. Pretty funny, actually!

I always thought it was more of a football reference, like "shanking a punt" or "shanking a field goal." Because David's really into football, you see.

[The Wales Hunter]

Urban Dictionary is always happy to throw a few suggestions forward:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shanker

As can Wikipedia itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankbone

[The Joy]

When I was younger, "shanking" was a form of depantsing. The process required "shanking" or moving back and forth the victim's pants in order to get them down. Very demeaning and humiliating. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

Thank goodness that never happened to me!

[Alison]

When I was younger, "shanking" was a form of depantsing. The process required "shanking" or moving back and forth the victim's pants in order to get them down. Very demeaning and humiliating. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

Shanking someone means to stab them with a homemade knife, prison-style (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

[Alison]

David has now weighed in re. Risker's comments and is offended over the Israeli junket suggestions. WR gets a good ol' mention, of course.

Hi David!!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif)

[Eva Destruction]

David has now weighed in re. Risker's comments and is offended over the Israeli junket suggestions. WR gets a good ol' mention, of course.

Hi David!!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif)

"Junket? How dare you, the America-Israel Friendship League and Israeli foreign ministry only paid for the trip because they wanted to meet me". David, do you think we can't read the article you (sorry, I mean "someone completely unrelated to me who wrote it without my knowledge") are using as evidence of your alleged 'notability'?

This post has been edited by Eva Destruction:

[LaraLove]

Also, your argument is stupid. Seven hours (or six hours and 40 minutes) is quite a bit of time.

Come again? Whose argument is stupid?

I find it helpful to check the name in the quote box of the person the response is being made for. In this case, anthony.

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Come to think about it... I think Wikipeidia is a Shanker (Chancre) sore on the internet.

Pus, honey. Pus. There is a difference between pus and puss. I think it's been established that he's gay, so I doubt he leaks puss.

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot)...

Ha! I never thought of that. Pretty funny, actually!

I always thought it was more of a football reference, like "shanking a punt" or "shanking a field goal." Because David's really into football, you see.

I always considered it a penis reference. The "bone" you "shank" people with. Shank, in this case, being "stab," if you know what I mean. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Eva Destruction]

Actually, just noticed that that article has possibly the saddest line I've ever seen - "Other notable sources interviewed by Wikinews reporters include World Wide Web co-inventor Robert Cailliau, New Zealand MP Nick Smith, the Rev. Al Sharpton, and Republican presidential candidates Sam Brownback, Tom Tancredo, and Duncan Hunter". That sentence sums up Wikinews perfectly.

[the fieryangel]

David has now weighed in re. Risker's comments and is offended over the Israeli junket suggestions. WR gets a good ol' mention, of course.

Hi David!!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif)

How long before the ED articles about Risker and others who voted delete start mysteriously arriving?

Did this Adam Rose person, who was an intern (not a staff writer) at CJR ever contact anybody here to find out what happened concerning Shankbone and this site? I don't remember it being discussed at the time. If Mr. Rose was so interested in doing his research thoroughly, one wonders why he didn't at least ask Somey or another mod to explain things to him.

Furthermore, since Fordham Law School is part of Columbia University, one has to wonder if Mr. Rose and Mr. Shankbone didn't know each other from...elsewhere?


Of course, Risker's suggestion that all of those Israeli press articles were all orchestrated by the Israeli government is just her jealous reaction to Mr. Miller's Wiki-success. Never mind the photo of Saranga, Lucas and Shankbone "enjoying lunch" on Fire Island....

And how did Mr. Miller get that interview with Peres? According to his own press, Saranga set it up :

* WikiPeres, Itamar Eichner, Yedioth Aharonoth (English translation)

“For over an hour, Peres sat with one of the Wikipedia senior editors, David Shankbone. Shankbone, who came to Israel with a delegation of journalists, turned to the Israeli Consul for Media and Public Affairs in New York, David Saranga, and asked to schedule an interview with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and President Peres.”

And why is Becksguy fighting so hard to get the article kept?

*'''Comment''' - I believe Risker is misreading the focus of the CJR article. It's entirely about him, and not just the Peres interview. No other journalist, citizen or otherwise, is mentioned by name. And "relatively unknown" was before the RS, especially CJR, made him notable. That comment is not relevant. Was Obama relatively unknown before his 2007 bid for President? I don't agree with the term, but if he's marginally notable, that's still notable. It's like a passing grade in school. If the minimum passing score is 65 (the bright line) and you receive a 65, marginally or not, you passed. The majority of us participating here think the RS are sufficient. Personally I think three of the most significant are a slam dunk for establishing notability, especially CJR because of all the reasons already mentioned. I have often argued in the past that the only really acceptable reason, per [[WP:BEFORE]], for deleting any article is if it's intrinsically non-notable. And to repeat, if we let potential problems with articles determine what articles are kept, Wikipedia and our readers suffer. Shankbone had nothing to do with creating the article, and has not asked that it either be kept or deleted. And he has wisely and properly stayed away from the DRV and this AfD DRV (up to now). And no, his request to delete obviously is not required to nominate it. But the nomination rationale referred to "spurious sources" which frames the discussion. The nomination did later refer to news sources with "insufficient coverage". However, the six sources were in the article at nomination time. Others picked up on the "spurious" characterization very unfairly, and repeated it. And to say that's it's not possible to write a non-biased article is, again, [[WP:CRYSTAL]] and an opinion, and not a reason to delete. It's a reason to work hard on the article. It's also possible that because David is known, that some participants are bending over backwards to avoid being perceived as partial to him, and that the bar is unfairly higher than it would be otherwise. The Village Voice is a weekly freebie, and it's a reliable source, so being free doesn't invalidate the Brooklyn Rail. — [[User:Becksguy|Becksguy]] ([[User talk:Becksguy|talk]]) 22:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

That's just one out of many comments. What is the deal with this campaign to save Private Shankbone?

[the fieryangel]

In response to this question, one might want to have a look at this.

One could also look at these links :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Demplot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...ns/Brooklynrail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tedepedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...0&target=Lyltry
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

[carbuncle]

Of course, it doesn't matter - this particular BLP is never going to mention the fact that he has uploaded dozens of hardcore gay pornography images to WP, or his relationship with pornographer Michael Lucas, or his tendency to disgustingly defame people on Encyclopedia Dramatica when he's challenged, criticized, or thwarted. It isn't going to mention his deviousness, his dishonesty, and his apparent sociopathic narcissism, nor is it going to indicate that the article itself is basically an autobiography.

I wouldn't be so sure about the first two things. I suspect reliable sources for these things will come along soon enough.

[Eva Destruction]

It's also possible that because David is known, that some participants are bending over backwards to avoid being perceived as partial to him

Oh, that'll be it. After all, he's so damn popular. (Horsey, you must be so proud.)

[carbuncle]

That's just it - Shankers is a fellow Wikipedian, whether these people like it or not. He's one of them, and anyone who writes a wall of text - especially to say he's "non-notable" - is likely to suffer for it eventually, possibly in the form of a nasty Encyclopedia Dramatica article, or worse. Whereas, if you just say "per So-and-So," maybe Shankers won't be so vindictive.

I made sure not to vote so I didn't get on Shankbone's bad side.

[the fieryangel]

Of course, it doesn't matter - this particular BLP is never going to mention the fact that he has uploaded dozens of hardcore gay pornography images to WP, or his relationship with pornographer Michael Lucas, or his tendency to disgustingly defame people on Encyclopedia Dramatica when he's challenged, criticized, or thwarted. It isn't going to mention his deviousness, his dishonesty, and his apparent sociopathic narcissism, nor is it going to indicate that the article itself is basically an autobiography.

I wouldn't be so sure about the first two things. I suspect reliable sources for these things will come along soon enough.

Here's one.

Since this is also used as a reference to source a quote in the article, the other link must also be valid.

[Milton Roe]

Shankers.. is that a name of some kind of sore you get after dating a Wikipeidian (Wikipediot) - A sore which leaks puss, smells like bad cheese, and is hard to cure.

Come to think about it... I think Wikipeidia is a Shanker (Chancre) sore on the internet.

Pus, honey. Pus. There is a difference between pus and puss. I think it's been established that he's gay, so I doubt he leaks puss.

Yep. Attending physician to intern: "I have a problem with your chart note, here, son. Unless this is a GYN patient, it's unlikely they have a pussy discharge. " (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

I always considered it a penis reference. The "bone" you "shank" people with. Shank, in this case, being "stab," if you know what I mean. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Yeah, I assumed that also. But just because that's HIS reference, doesn't mean it has to be OURS. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[the fieryangel]

Another interesting "Brooklyn Rail" caper :

•John Reed disambiguation page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

••Lylttry adds self to the top of disambiguation page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=106333274

••Biruitorul moves name down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=138995714

••Profgregory reorganizes according to scheme concocted to maintain
himself at the top (most recent to oldest, beginning with “Arts,
Letters and Entertainment” section):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=154524350
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=155254144

...There's lots more where that came from...

The Brooklyn Rail is a "mutual admiration society". Although John Reed must be a very good writer, because nearly everbody at this library site and on Amazon gave him five stars!


Huckandraz (T-C-L-K-R-D) not only started the article about Mr. Miller : but also the article about Judy Rifka.

Judy Rifka is the mother of....guess which American Writer?

You wouldn't suppose that it was John Reed, would you?

[The Wales Hunter]

Here's one.

Since this is also used as a reference to source a quote in the article, the other link must also be valid.

Was almost immediately reverted when added, incidentally.

[the fieryangel]

Here's one.

Since this is also used as a reference to source a quote in the article, the other link must also be valid.

Was almost immediately reverted when added, incidentally.

The first, yes The second is still there.

It's the same source. Why is one acceptable and the other isn't?

[A Horse With No Name]

For a minute I thought you were ancient based on that name-drop, but I located the years he had the show and it wasn't that long ago. I had no idea he had a radio show after that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Why there's so much of Howard Stern in this, I don't know:

From March 1985 to March 1987, Sales hosted a midday radio show on WNBC radio in New York; Howard Stern had an afternoon show on the same station. Sales and Stern did not get along. There was an incident of Stern's cutting the strings in Sales' in-studio piano at 4:05 p.m. on May 1, 1985. On December 21, 2007, Stern revealed this was a stunt staged for "theater of the mind" and to torture Sales; in truth, the piano was never harmed.[11]

Soupy was sandwiched between Don Imus' drivetime show and Howard Stern's afternoon show on WNBC. Granted, Soupy's brand of comedy didn't fit in with those big mouthed bad boys -- but on its own, it was a good natured comedy program. I should've mentioned this was in the 80s -- most people only know about Soupy from his 60s program, but that was before my time. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

It's also possible that because David is known, that some participants are bending over backwards to avoid being perceived as partial to him

Oh, that'll be it. After all, he's so damn popular. (Horsey, you must be so proud.)

Yes, my Mozambican persona is the first and (to date) only person to be withdrawn from the Shankbone Hall of Greats -- I was ejected from his pantheon because Mr. Miller is a close friend of a certain Mr. Jameson (they even have a Facebook link-up). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Obviously I rubbed Mr. Miller the wrong way. If anyone knows the right way to rub him, please keep it to yourself -- or, at the very least, use hand sanitizing liquid when you are done. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

P.S.RMHED closed it as No Consensus -- as a Non-Admin Closure? Is he drinking again, or have NAC standards been thrown out the window? I thought you weren't allowed to do a NAC even if there was a single delete vote in the bunch. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Oh, NuclearWarfare (who was seen reading this section) went and reverted RMHED: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322041718

P.P.S. "I offer no opinion on my notability; I only offered one on my integrity." -- David Shankbone 23:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Good night, sister! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[carbuncle]

And why is Becksguy fighting so hard to get the article kept?
<snip>
That's just one out of many comments. What is the deal with this campaign to save Private Shankbone?

Becksguy is part of Wikimedia New York City along with Shankbone.

[A Horse With No Name]

Now Jake Wartenberg overturned Rummy...uh, RMHED, and closed it as Delete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

Well, the opera isn't supposed to be over until the fat lady sings. Is Risker vocalizing? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[grievous]

David has now weighed in re. Risker's comments and is offended over the Israeli junket suggestions. WR gets a good ol' mention, of course.

Hi David!!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wave.gif)

Of course he does. Where else would he get the idea to write this blog post if he didn't read about it first in this WR thread?

So the article's been deleted, do we throw a party or hold a wake?

This post has been edited by grievous:

[Moulton]

Who the hell is David Shankbone?!?

So the article's been deleted, do we throw a party or hold a wake?

We release balloons and throw up.

[A Horse With No Name]

Who the hell is David Shankbone?!?

There is no such thing -- it was all a bad dream. If you don't believe, ask Patrick Duffy when he comes out of the shower. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

So the article's been deleted, do we throw a party or hold a wake?

Let's not throw this party:

[anthony]

First of all, last I read, Shankbone was indifferent on the whole thing.

Then so am I. Except to make fun of those of you who care about it.

And while I suppose it's possible that McBride wanted to close it himself or have someone else do it, I think it's far more likely that such an early close was to prevent someone else from closing with a different result.

Or both. It's probably both.

[GlassBeadGame]

First of all, last I read, Shankbone was indifferent on the whole thing.

Then so am I. Except to make fun of those of you who care about it.

Jackpot.

[tarantino]

Now Jake Wartenberg overturned Rummy...uh, RMHED, and closed it as Delete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

Well, the opera isn't supposed to be over until the fat lady sings. Is Risker vocalizing? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Nurse Anne is far from a fat lady.

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Wiki-Conference_New_York_2009_portrait_18.jpg/749px-Wiki-Conference_New_York_2009_portrait_18.jpg)

[A Horse With No Name]

Nurse Anne is far from a fat lady.

She's a nurse? Which way to the Christian Science Reading Room? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

I apologize for the unseemly fat joke -- I will save my misplaced mirth and girth remarks for Friday. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Somey]

Did this Adam Rose person, who was an intern (not a staff writer) at CJR ever contact anybody here to find out what happened concerning Shankbone and this site? I don't remember it being discussed at the time. If Mr. Rose was so interested in doing his research thoroughly, one wonders why he didn't at least ask Somey or another mod to explain things to him.

For the record, we never received any communications from Adam Rose or anyone else about Mr. Shankers. I should also point out that during most of 2008, there was relatively little public "criticism" of Mr. Shankers here on WR - the incident which led to his activities on Encyclopedia Dramatica occurred in early May 2008, and much of the related material isn't visible to non-members, which (presumably) would include Mr. Rose.

Prior to that, he might have seen some of the earlier threads in this subforum, but the subforum itself wasn't created until later in the year. Most of that material is along these lines - wondering whether the models for his photographs of human genitalia actually consented to having their genitalia featured on Wikipedia, for example (and I would still assume so, personally).

To call the Columbia Journalism Review the "premiere journal of American journalism" is slightly disingenuous; there are really only two such publications in the United States, and the other, the American Journalism Review, is probably just as respected.

Other quotes from this entry strike me as questionable:

I was on a [[press junket]] with Businessweek (Stacy Perman), Slate.com (Dan Rosenthal), USA Today and others. To question my trip is to also question our sources.

I don't understand this; nobody is questioning that the trip occurred, only his "conflict of interest." It isn't logical to assume this would entail questioning of "their sources," whoever "their sources" are.

CJR came out January/February 2009 and if there was some problem with my work, they would have written about it.

Why would anyone assume that? Besides, the problem isn't really with "his work," particularly if you feel that pornography belongs on Wikipedia. The problem is him.

I spoke with the editor-in-chief.

About what? And why would this mean anything?

The 2009 trip was all photography in the [[Negev desert]] and of people like [[David Faiman]]. What bias is there in that?

Risker (T-C-L-K-R-D) never suggested that there was "bias" in these photographs, or even in the trip itself. She was merely pointing out that in the absence of critical sources, an unbiased WP article on Mr. Shankers cannot be written. An article based entirely on an interview with Mr. Shankers cannot be considered "unbiased," even if the publication it appears in is considered "reliable." (At least in the real world.)

[Wikicrusher2]

...the incident which led to his activities on Encyclopedia Dramatica occurred in early May 2008...

What are the details of this? I didn't know that he was on ED. Presumably he engaged in some rather distasteful shenanigans, correct?

[Somey]

What are the details of this? I didn't know that he was on ED. Presumably he engaged in some rather distasteful shenanigans, correct?

That's covered here, here, and here. All those threads require registration (and five posts, too, but since you have seven)...

[everyking]

First of all, last I read, Shankbone was indifferent on the whole thing. I've emailed asking him what his thoughts are because, to be honest, I don't understand how someone could be indifferent to having a biography on Wikipedia, particularly someone familiar with Wikipedia, and especially when their biography has been subject to BLP violations in a very short time of existence.

It's not hard to figure out--he wanted the article (in fact, it was a vanity piece by proxy), but he didn't want to say so, lest it look even more like a vanity article than it already did. So he was officially "neutral". I remember Phil Sandifer did the same thing when an article was created on him--he was officially neutral, but clearly he wanted the article kept, considering that it was hagiographic and all his pals were voting to keep it.

[Wikicrusher2]

I just read that material you linked to, Somey. Obviously I was correct in my presumptions.

Shankbone wouldn't be "indifferent" on any matter that related to stroking his own ego. When he claims that he is "indifferent", it evokes the mental vision of someone who wants to disguise the fact that they really are egotistical, just that they didn't want to seem even more so than people are aware of.

[Moulton]

First of all, last I read, Shankbone was indifferent on the whole thing.

Then so am I. Except to make fun of those of you who care about it.

Jackpot.

Let's not forget the WikiCulture Credo...

We are not the military. We don't ask and we don't care.

[SB_Johnny]

Now Jake Wartenberg overturned Rummy...uh, RMHED, and closed it as Delete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

Well, the opera isn't supposed to be over until the fat lady sings. Is Risker vocalizing? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

They ain't gonna stand for that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jak...g#Admin_closure

[Cla68]

Now Jake Wartenberg overturned Rummy...uh, RMHED, and closed it as Delete: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...David_Shankbone

Well, the opera isn't supposed to be over until the fat lady sings. Is Risker vocalizing? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

They ain't gonna stand for that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jak...g#Admin_closure

There's an edit war going on at the Deletion policy page over the close rationale and a discussion here about the wording in question.

[A Horse With No Name]

So how is this going to shake out? It is obvious that despite his public statements of being apathetic, Mr. Miller canvassed his friends to come out in support and some of these characters -- particularly the bouncy troll Varks Spira (who was already warned by Juliancolton to behave or else) -- will continue to beat the dead...well, you know what I mean.

[grievous]

I just read that material you linked to, Somey. Obviously I was correct in my presumptions.

Shankbone wouldn't be "indifferent" on any matter that related to stroking his own ego. When he claims that he is "indifferent", it evokes the mental vision of someone who wants to disguise the fact that they really are egotistical, just that they didn't want to seem even more so than people are aware of.

If he said he favored inclusion of the article, it would only have fueled the arguments for deletion due to reasons of self-promotion. Vain, narcisistic, paranoid, all these things he is, but no one's ever said he was stupid.

Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't been re-opened at DRV yet.

The 2009 trip was all photography in the [[Negev desert]] and of people like [[David Faiman]]. What bias is there in that?

Risker (T-C-L-K-R-D) never suggested that there was "bias" in these photographs, or even in the trip itself. She was merely pointing out that in the absence of critical sources, an unbiased WP article on Mr. Shankers cannot be written. An article based entirely on an interview with Mr. Shankers cannot be considered "unbiased," even if the publication it appears in is considered "reliable." (At least in the real world.)

What really got his panties in a twist is that an editor with the stature of a 'crat came out in favor of deletion. Shankers is showing his true colors here with how he really feels about inclusion of his autobiography.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[carbuncle]

Shankbone writes a long statement to express his indifference about having his article deleted. Here's a snippet:

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

[A Horse With No Name]

Shankbone writes a long statement to express his indifference about having his article deleted. Here's a snippet:

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

It appears Mr. Miller studied humility with Kathleen Battle. And off-key caterwauling, too. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif)

[CharlotteWebb]

My edits and my content are rarely ever controversial, as evidenced by the fact so few people see "David Shankbone" threads at ANI or at ArbCom.

Lol, what?

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...David_Shankbone
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...David_Shankbone
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...cret_admirer.2E
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...David_Shankbone
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...l_Lucas_stalker
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...ankbone.2F72.76
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...anger.22_photos
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...David_Shankbone
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...David_Shankbone
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...ankbone_article
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...him_to_leave.3F
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...Result:_24_h.29
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm..._hour_block_.29

{{incomplete list}}

This post has been edited by CharlotteWebb:

[No one of consequence]

Shankbone writes a long statement to express his indifference about having his article deleted. Here's a snippet:

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

Let's be fair now. He only referred to himself 19 times (12 "I" and 7 "my") out of 734 words, that's only a 1:38 ratio.

[Achromatic]

Slimmy has weighed in:

Jake, would you please undo your closure (and your undoing of the previous closure)? You are clearly involved. You voted at the DRV to overturn at 18:10 Oct 25. At 18:44, you tried to change the relevant part of the deletion policy. [7] At 00:40 Oct 26, you overturned the admin's decision to keep. That's clearly not acceptable. The policy and best practice is default to keep on borderline notables, unless the subject has requested deletion. And, regardless of that, involved admins, or admins with strong feelings in either direction, shouldn't be closing these debates. SlimVirgin talk|contribs 03:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

That's an interesting position for SV to take: "admins with strong feelings" shouldn't be involved. "Do as I say, not as I do"?

[A Horse With No Name]

"Whether I have a Wikipedia article or not is unimportant to me; but I think it *is* important that we start to figure out how we see ourselves and the work we do, considering that the amount of influence that we wield is definitely not lost on us." -->David Shankbone 14:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Years ago, my mother was working in New York City and she went to pick up a copy of Le Monde, the French newspaper, at a news stand. As her hand went to take the newspaper, another hand went at the exact same time for the same newspaper. My mother looked up and saw the hand belonged to Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. And do you know what the former First Lady of the United States did? She retracted her hand and said to my mother, "You were here first." Some time later, my mother ran into Mrs. Onassis again -- at a bakery, where she took her ticket and stood on line behind my mother, waiting her turn to be called. My mother, by the way, was a secretary.

I only mention this because Mr. Miller is behaving like a diva when he has no reason for such actions, whereas someone who wielded a lot of influence and had every right to be a diva did not behave that way in public.

David Miller - you're no Jackie Onassis! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[SB_Johnny]

David Miller - you're no Jackie Onassis! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Might be jackin' on asses though.

Somewhat OT, but do we know why he chose "Shankbone" as his nom de plume porn photo?

BTW, the more I watch this sort of thing, the less motivated I am to have any involvement whatsoever in the WP social club. Not that I was ever all that interested, just less so now.

[A Horse With No Name]

David Miller - you're no Jackie Onassis! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Might be jackin' on asses though.

Johnny scores a hole in one! Oh, wait a minute... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

[the fieryangel]

Hmm, speaking of ED, I wonder if this might be related to this business?...

Someywheretherainbow...it's kinda dated. I had Somey pegged as being a post-punk kinda guy, rather than a Judy Garland fan....

It's such a coincidence that whenever something happens to our friend Dave (less than an hour after his article gets deleted on TOW this account gets created), , articles on ED just happen to pop up just around the same time....

Check this diff out

Edit summary of "(expand intro)"

Now, where have I seen that edit summary recently?

I can't imagine....although I can make a few educated guesses as to who else might expect to find themselves a subject of articles on ED in the next few days....

[Somey]

Hmm, speaking of ED, I wonder if this might be related to this business?...

Well, a person would have to be a total moron to consider that post to the Benjiboi thread "spying" - it's quite the opposite, in fact. And since we don't exactly cater to morons here (at least not deliberately), I don't see what the point is, other than to simply prove my own earlier point about Shankers using ED as a revenge platform when Wikipedia itself isn't quite tolerant enough for his purposes.

Of course, it's not surprising that this would happen after the Shankers article was deleted - it's natural that I'd be at the top of his (s)hit-list. I just feel sorry for all the people who actually voted to delete it. Not only will they be on his list, they actually have Wikipedia accounts, too! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

[Somey]

One thing I really enjoy about this is the hilarity of watching Shankers attempt to "fit in" with the Encyclopedia Dramatica user community by using a phony African-American-style aphoristic dialect, commonly known within "net-troll" circles as "wigger." So you'll see image filenames like "Somey Still Spyin Yeah Yeah" to describe a screen shot of me pointing out that nobody has ever posted here from a specific IP range, as if a black person would actually say something like that at all, much less describe the screen shot in that way. (An even more hackneyed and feckless example is this one.)

There's also his use of homophobic epithets (such as here, which also illustrates his tendency to impersonate the person(s) he's attacking), which is somewhat disturbing, given that Shankers is gay himself.

Still, I don't think you can really blame Shankers for these outbursts; it's probably due to a chemical imbalance of some kind, which may even be hereditary.

[victim of censorship]

One thing I really enjoy about this is the hilarity of watching Shankers attempt to "fit in" with the Encyclopedia Dramatica user community by using a phony African-American-style aphoristic dialect, commonly known within "net-troll" circles as "wigger." So you'll see image filenames like "Somey Still Spyin Yeah Yeah" to describe a screen shot of me pointing out that nobody has ever posted here from a specific IP range, as if a black person would actually say something like that at all, much less describe the screen shot in that way. (An even more hackneyed and feckless example is this one.)

There's also his use of homophobic epithets (such as here, which also illustrates his tendency to impersonate the person(s) he's attacking), which is somewhat disturbing, given that Shankers is gay himself.

Still, I don't think you can really blame Shankers for these outbursts; it's probably due to a chemical imbalance of some kind, which may even be hereditary.

I think Shanks uses his little head to do the thinking for the big one...

[Brutus]

Hmm, speaking of ED, I wonder if this might be related to this business?...

Of course, it's not surprising that this would happen after the Shankers article was deleted - it's natural that I'd be at the top of his (s)hit-list. I just feel sorry for all the people who actually voted to delete it. Not only will they be on his list, they actually have Wikipedia accounts, too! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

I don't think he's that stupid to create a hit list of editors and seek revenge on those who voted against it.

[Cla68]

Of course, it's not surprising that this would happen after the Shankers article was deleted - it's natural that I'd be at the top of his (s)hit-list. I just feel sorry for all the people who actually voted to delete it. Not only will they be on his list, they actually have Wikipedia accounts, too! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif)

Well, he's probably not going to be successful at getting his bio restored on Wikipedia. Perhaps he should post it on ED, Wikipedia Review, or both. Greg, would you let Mr. Miller post his bio on your wiki?

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[A Horse With No Name]

More pissy drama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

[SB_Johnny]

More pissy drama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

Too bad these kids probably can't be convinced to make such stands on actual important issues (health care, greenhouse gasses, yadda-yadda).

[the fieryangel]

More pissy drama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

Too bad these kids probably can't be convinced to make such stands on actual important issues (health care, greenhouse gasses, yadda-yadda).

Well, some of 'em want Jake Wartenberg's head on the end of a pike :

I wanted to clarify with you (as is advised), whether you are willing to use the default process for recall, or whether you may have specific criteria already outlined that I'm not seeing? user:J aka justen (talk) 05:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Charming, I say, just charming!

[SB_Johnny]

Well, some of 'em want Jake Wartenberg's head on the end of a pike :

Next time I slaughter a goat, I think I'll have to put its head on a pole and upload a pic for commons (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Moulton]

Instead of a Scapegoat Drama, is this a Scrape Goat Drama?

[grievous]

Well, some of 'em want Jake Wartenberg's head on the end of a pike :

I wanted to clarify with you (as is advised), whether you are willing to use the default process for recall, or whether you may have specific criteria already outlined that I'm not seeing? user:J aka justen (talk) 05:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Charming, I say, just charming!

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[carbuncle]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

J is one of the most unfathomably dense people I have come across on WP.

This post has been edited by carbuncle:

[A Horse With No Name]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

J is one of the most unfathomably dense people I have come across on WP.

Not to be catty, but...is that is real hair color? Maybe it just don't photograph properly. Or was he watching too many Rita Hayworth movies and decided to do his own tribute to Gilda? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[grievous]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

J is one of the most unfathomably dense people I have come across on WP.

Not to be catty, but...is that is real hair color? Maybe it just don't photograph properly. Or was he watching too many Rita Hayworth movies and decided to do his own tribute to Gilda? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

I think it's a pre-requisite when you work at Hot Topic that you have to sample their hair products.

[A Horse With No Name]

If you haven't checked in to this yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

Funniest comment: Endorse because we have enough crap "articles" - Majorly

[Apathetic]

what a gorgeous clusterfuck

[The Wales Hunter]

If you haven't checked in to this yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

Funniest comment: Endorse because we have enough crap "articles" - Majorly

Majorly's comment is about right, though. I may have gone a bit far but it's what I believe. Why piss about worrying about which policy and guideline has been followed when the fact remains Shankbone is a nightmare waiting to happen.

[RMHED]

If you haven't checked in to this yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Del...David_Shankbone

Funniest comment: Endorse because we have enough crap "articles" - Majorly

Majorly's comment is about right, though. I may have gone a bit far but it's what I believe. Why piss about worrying about which policy and guideline has been followed when the fact remains Shankbone is a nightmare waiting to happen.

All the more reason to keep the article and maximize the entertainment value.

[tarantino]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

Justen is actually more notable outside the wiki-world than Shankbone, but is not mentioned anywhere in article space.

He was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal as a whistleblower.

He also appeared on front pages when as a 16 year old he testified before his state legislature on an amendment to the state's hate crime bill that would have included protection based on sexual orientation.

[A Horse With No Name]

Justen is actually more notable outside the wiki-world than Shankbone, but is not mentioned anywhere in article space.

He was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal as a whistleblower.

He also appeared on front pages when as a 16 year old he testified before his state legislature on an amendment to the state's hate crime bill that would have included protection based on sexual orientation.

That explains the hair -- again, not to be catty, but the hair color in his WP photo looked unreal. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

what a gorgeous clusterfuck

You ain't half bad yourself. I know some skanks who might be interested in meeting you. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Alison]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

Justen is actually more notable outside the wiki-world than Shankbone, but is not mentioned anywhere in article space.

He was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal as a whistleblower.

He also appeared on front pages when as a 16 year old he testified before his state legislature on an amendment to the state's hate crime bill that would have included protection based on sexual orientation.

Wow! Whatever you say about his actions on WP (and I strongly dislike his stance on BLPs), he's obviously a man of strong convictions and of great personal integrity (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

Wow! Whatever you say about his actions on WP (and I strongly dislike his stance on BLPs), he's obviously a man of strong convictions and of great personal integrity (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

On the West Virginia story, yes. On the KP story, definitely not. But it is amusing to see that even he isn't immune to violating COI on WP.

[Cla68]

Wow! Whatever you say about his actions on WP (and I strongly dislike his stance on BLPs), he's obviously a man of strong convictions and of great personal integrity (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

On the West Virginia story, yes. On the KP story, definitely not. But it is amusing to see that even he isn't immune to violating COI on WP.

I just read the article. He should not have been editing his company's Wikipedia article from his work computer. Bad idea. It was admirable, however, for him to accept being fired in order to make it known that his company was screwing up big time with that huge IT project.

[thekohser]

Kaiser fired him on Jan. 11. A company spokeswoman says he wasn't dismissed over the email flap, but "rather because he violated numerous company policies, including making an unauthorized order for three Apple laptops that he converted to his own use." Mr. Deal says the order was approved by superiors in his department.

These days, Mr. Deal helps friends with their computers and is looking for a job. In February, he was named "IT Industry Figure of the Year" by HIStalk, based on an online reader poll conducted by the site. Both he and Mr. Halvorson were asked to participate in a panel discussion at the Healthcare Blogging Summit set for this month in Las Vegas. The CEO declined the invitation; Mr. Deal says the date conflicts with a job-hunting trip.

[Cla68]

Kaiser fired him on Jan. 11. A company spokeswoman says he wasn't dismissed over the email flap, but "rather because he violated numerous company policies, including making an unauthorized order for three Apple laptops that he converted to his own use." Mr. Deal says the order was approved by superiors in his department.

These days, Mr. Deal helps friends with their computers and is looking for a job. In February, he was named "IT Industry Figure of the Year" by HIStalk, based on an online reader poll conducted by the site. Both he and Mr. Halvorson were asked to participate in a panel discussion at the Healthcare Blogging Summit set for this month in Las Vegas. The CEO declined the invitation; Mr. Deal says the date conflicts with a job-hunting trip.

As everyone here probably has observed, it's fairly easy for an organization to trump up some charge if they want to get rid of you. They can say that you were tardy too many times, abused sick leave, misused the company credit card, violated their network/email user policy, had unexplained absences, disrespected your supervisor, disrupted office work performance, used the company car without proper authorization, etc, etc. The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

[grievous]

Justen Deal (T-C-L-K-R-D) is a veteran wiki-MMORGP player. He even has the claim to fame of having Essjay mediate one of his disputes. Chuthya (T-C-L-K-R-D) made the mistake of baiting him into reporting his usage of the goat pissing picture in Shanker's article at ANI and he was summarily banned based on Justen's comments alone.

Justen is actually more notable outside the wiki-world than Shankbone, but is not mentioned anywhere in article space.

He was featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal as a whistleblower.

He also appeared on front pages when as a 16 year old he testified before his state legislature on an amendment to the state's hate crime bill that would have included protection based on sexual orientation.

Wow! Whatever you say about his actions on WP (and I strongly dislike his stance on BLPs), he's obviously a man of strong convictions and of great personal integrity (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

Not sure what you see that you admire. He hacked into his company's files to get the expense reports. After he was told by the compliance department that there was no wrongdoing, he threw a tantrum and violated company confidentiality policy by disclosing the expense reports externally. His arguments are the typical hyperbole we see from him on WP. If Kaiser was wasting money on a fruitless IT project, the only persons it was hurting are its shareholders.

All of this after he bilked the company to pay for three (!) Apple laptops for his personal use.

I'd predict that if there were an article on him, I'm sure we'd see him arguing for its deletion on [[WP:BLP1E]] grounds. I dare someone to create it, though, just to see what happens (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[grievous]

Kaiser fired him on Jan. 11. A company spokeswoman says he wasn't dismissed over the email flap, but "rather because he violated numerous company policies, including making an unauthorized order for three Apple laptops that he converted to his own use." Mr. Deal says the order was approved by superiors in his department.

These days, Mr. Deal helps friends with their computers and is looking for a job. In February, he was named "IT Industry Figure of the Year" by HIStalk, based on an online reader poll conducted by the site. Both he and Mr. Halvorson were asked to participate in a panel discussion at the Healthcare Blogging Summit set for this month in Las Vegas. The CEO declined the invitation; Mr. Deal says the date conflicts with a job-hunting trip.

As everyone here probably has observed, it's fairly easy for an organization to trump up some charge if they want to get rid of you. They can say that you were tardy too many times, abused sick leave, misused the company credit card, violated their network/email user policy, had unexplained absences, disrespected your supervisor, disrupted office work performance, used the company car without proper authorization, etc, etc. The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

This is because his actions with the e-mail were potentially protected by the Whistleblower's act (though I question whether this applies since his e-mail was directed to internal employees and the information wasn't provided to law enforcement or regulatory agencies). However, inappropriate Internet usage and improper use of company funds (the laptop purchases) are certainly documentable and difficult to refute. We only have Mr. Deal's word on whether or not he had his supervisor's permission for those purchases.

Basically, what we have is a person who for whatever reason got a bug up his ass about inadaquacies in one of his company's projects, looked into how much it was spending on it and took this to be a bigger deal than what it was. When he didn't get satisfaction he blew a cork and publicized it in the most ill-advised way ever. Now he's found a venue, Wikipedia, where he can successfully throw his weight around. Must be more satisfying than folding shirts at the GAP.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[A Horse With No Name]

This is because his actions with the e-mail were potentially protected by the Whistleblower's act (though I question whether this applies since his e-mail was directed to internal employees and the information wasn't provided to law enforcement or regulatory agencies). However, inappropriate Internet usage and improper use of company funds (the laptop purchases) are certainly documentable and difficult to refute. We only have Mr. Deal's word on whether or not he had his supervisor's permission for those purchases.

Mr. Deal is also a Shankbonesque publicity hound -- articles in the Washington Post about a 16 year old in an obscure West Virginia high school and the Wall Street Journal about some big mouth low-level employee at a major healthcare company do not magically appear.

I don't know what he is currently doing for a living, but I cannot imagine any responsible company taking the risk of having such a loose cannon on its payroll. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[The Wales Hunter]

Just thinking out loud and I may be wide of the mark, but is there a chance the David Shankbone BLP was an attempt to set a precedent to force other BLPs on to Wiki? Not OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but lowering the grounds of WP:N?

[A Horse With No Name]

Just thinking out loud and I may be wide of the mark, but is there a chance the David Shankbone BLP was an attempt to set a precedent to force other BLPs on to Wiki? Not OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but lowering the grounds of WP:N?

I think you are giving Shankbone and his boys more credit than they deserve. This was just shameless self-promotion and not an assault on BLP policy. Mr. Miller was obviously caught off guard by the backlash, hence his astonishingly defensive ME ME ME statement on his talk page.

[Achromatic]

As everyone here probably has observed, it's fairly easy for an organization to trump up some charge if they want to get rid of you. They can say that you were tardy too many times, abused sick leave, misused the company credit card, violated their network/email user policy, had unexplained absences, disrespected your supervisor, disrupted office work performance, used the company car without proper authorization, etc, etc. The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

To a degree. Trumping things up, looking for letter violations are one thing... making a public statement that could reasonably be held to imply everything up to and including wilful fraud strikes me as an exceptionally unwise thing to do for a company unless it feels on very sure ground. I'd stick to "not a team player", personally.

Basically, what we have is a person who for whatever reason got a bug up his ass about inadaquacies in one of his company's projects, looked into how much it was spending on it and took this to be a bigger deal than what it was.

Exactly. And given his age, and without wanting to get into a debate about the costs of the US health "insurance" system, he probably had no idea of what he was really looking at. I work for a 12 employee company that writes software for the health insurance industry, and electronic medical records. We think nothing of billing $200,000 on a proof of concept for a web application, and most of our clients don't bat an eyelid (and our rates are probably cheap, reflecting an hourly bill commensurate with "senior consulting rates".

[grievous]

As everyone here probably has observed, it's fairly easy for an organization to trump up some charge if they want to get rid of you. They can say that you were tardy too many times, abused sick leave, misused the company credit card, violated their network/email user policy, had unexplained absences, disrespected your supervisor, disrupted office work performance, used the company car without proper authorization, etc, etc. The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

To a degree. Trumping things up, looking for letter violations are one thing... making a public statement that could reasonably be held to imply everything up to and including wilful fraud strikes me as an exceptionally unwise thing to do for a company unless it feels on very sure ground. I'd stick to "not a team player", personally.

This is true. Becoming an informant for the DEA/FBI/Secret Service/SEC and/or testifying in court or in front of congress against the company you work for is heroic. Spaming an e-mail to everyone in the company accusing the CEO of incompetence, conflict of interest, and fraud is just stupid.

Basically, what we have is a person who for whatever reason got a bug up his ass about inadaquacies in one of his company's projects, looked into how much it was spending on it and took this to be a bigger deal than what it was.

Exactly. And given his age, and without wanting to get into a debate about the costs of the US health "insurance" system, he probably had no idea of what he was really looking at. I work for a 12 employee company that writes software for the health insurance industry, and electronic medical records. We think nothing of billing $200,000 on a proof of concept for a web application, and most of our clients don't bat an eyelid (and our rates are probably cheap, reflecting an hourly bill commensurate with "senior consulting rates".

I found the text of the original e-mail http://histalk.blog-city.com/internal_emai...lands_emplo.htm I would guess that his beef started with the cancellation of the original database software project that was dear to him and replacing it with another that was aquired by KP after the new CEO took his position. Sorry kid, that's the way big business works.

Mods: This is becoming tangental to [[David Shankbone]]. It may do well to fork this off into a new thread about Justin Deal and his apparent COIs.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[CharlotteWebb]

The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

Yeah I heard that.

To say I work in a "do as they do, not as I say" environment of pure double-talk would be putting it too nicely. Anyone who doesn't catch onto that within a week tends to find the job too difficult and quit within two weeks. Then after that if they need an excuse to fire somebody (such as me) they only need to selectively enforce the rules for a couple hours.

It's worse than Wal-Mart in that regard, but the money's quite a bit better.

[Lar]

The amount of paperwork and attention to detail it takes for most of us to strictly comply with every single regulation involved with our work AND still perform as we're expected is unrealistic to expect that it will all be perfectly in order.

Yeah I heard that.

To say I work in a "do as they do, not as I say" environment of pure double-talk would be putting it too nicely. Anyone who doesn't catch onto that within a week tends to find the job too difficult and quit within two weeks. Then after that if they need an excuse to fire somebody (such as me) they only need to selectively enforce the rules for a couple hours.

It's worse than Wal-Mart in that regard, but the money's quite a bit better.

Work-To-Rule is a very effective industrial action style if everyone does it at once.

I've been privileged to encounter it on my favorite airline when the pilots were not happy about something.... we got in hours and hours late.

[CharlotteWebb]

Work-To-Rule is a very effective industrial action style if everyone does it at once.

Yeah but I don't suppose you're familiar with the "prisoners' dilemma"… (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[LaraLove]

Just thinking out loud and I may be wide of the mark, but is there a chance the David Shankbone BLP was an attempt to set a precedent to force other BLPs on to Wiki? Not OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but lowering the grounds of WP:N?

Possible, but I don't think so. Regardless of intent, though, that was/is a major concern, and the reason the article was nominated for deletion, I believe.

[Lar]

Work-To-Rule is a very effective industrial action style if everyone does it at once.

Yeah but I don't suppose you're familiar with the "prisoners' dilemma"… (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

Absolutely. Wasn't advocating it in your case, just happened to think about WTR in this context. It works for the pilots union because no one can bolt (and not suffer worse later). Wouldn't work for your sitch presumably.

It's actually fairly amusing to see in action if you don't really need to get anywhere particular in any particular hurry.

[CharlotteWebb]

Absolutely. Wasn't advocating it in your case, just happened to think about WTR in this context. It works for the pilots union because no one can bolt (and not suffer worse later). Wouldn't work for your sitch presumably.

Nobody wants to risk being the only one dancing (or claiming to be Spartacus, or whatever).

That said I did witness a wild-cat strike once. Lasted about three hours and amazed the hell out of me. At first I figured okay these folks are about to get sacked so even if they ask me to cooperate with them I should probably just play dumb and continue working.

But then somebody shut off the electricity so I didn't have much choice.

It's actually fairly amusing to see in action if you don't really need to get anywhere particular in any particular hurry.

I wasn't in a big hurry I sure wouldn't be on a plane. Road trips are more fun, the food's better, and ya can smoke if ya want. Plus you don't have to get your damn shoes x-rayed.

This post has been edited by CharlotteWebb:

[A Horse With No Name]

New twist: JohnWBarber is ID'd as a Noroton sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...eaking_of_socks

Yes, the same JohnWBarber who took the AfD to DRV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

[grievous]

New twist: JohnWBarber is ID'd as a Noroton sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...eaking_of_socks

Yes, the same JohnWBarber who took the AfD to DRV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

So someone who breaks policy through abusive sockpuppetry is calling for the strict application of policy on the closing of a marginal BLP?

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

Oh the irony.

This whole fiasco has been about nothing but wiki-politicing.

This post has been edited by grievous:

[Lar]

It's actually fairly amusing to see in action if you don't really need to get anywhere particular in any particular hurry.

I wasn't in a big hurry I sure wouldn't be on a plane. Road trips are more fun, the food's better, and ya can smoke if ya want. Plus you don't have to get your damn shoes x-rayed.

Well we travel for different reasons, I guess. If I'm on business, which is almost all of the time, to a certain extent, what happens happens... I'll get there eventually. And even if you get delayed a whole day, it's faster than driving from NYC to LA.

[anthony]

Absolutely. Wasn't advocating it in your case, just happened to think about WTR in this context. It works for the pilots union because no one can bolt (and not suffer worse later). Wouldn't work for your sitch presumably.

Nobody wants to risk being the only one dancing (or claiming to be Spartacus, or whatever).

That all depends on whether or not you can live off unemployment for a few months while you look for a new job. And quite often it doesn't even come down to that. "What are you going to do, fire me?" is a tough line to answer when you mean more to them than they mean to you.

[Somey]

New twist: JohnWBarber is ID'd as a Noroton sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...eaking_of_socks

Yes, the same JohnWBarber who took the AfD to DRV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

If history is any guide, and assuming this identification is correct, this would tend to suggest that Mr. Noroton has a BLP of his own on Wikipedia that he doesn't want deleted.

It might suggest a few other things about Mr. Noroton's general integrity, but perhaps it would be best not to speculate on that subject.

[A Horse With No Name]

Incredibly, the DRV fire is still raging. Any bets on how it will be closed?

[Tarc]

New twist: JohnWBarber is ID'd as a Noroton sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...eaking_of_socks

Yes, the same JohnWBarber who took the AfD to DRV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

If history is any guide, and assuming this identification is correct, this would tend to suggest that Mr. Noroton has a BLP of his own on Wikipedia that he doesn't want deleted.

It might suggest a few other things about Mr. Noroton's general integrity, but perhaps it would be best not to speculate on that subject.

He's pulling the "I was socking to get away from the meanies, it was liberating to be under new usernames, etc..." defense now; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Noroton#Blocked

[thekohser]

Hey, Happy... Do me a favor. I'm just curious of what your opinion is of the contributions Shankbone has made to Meta Wikimedia? Also, what are your thoughts on the time when he published a statement on Wikipedia that if I didn't stop removing the image of his chihuahua riding illegally on the NY subway system, he would retaliate in "a way you cannot even imagine"?

I'm just curious to hear how an apologist such as yourself would successfully frame these issues.

...

Looking forward to your answers!

I ought to edit the above. The actual quote was:

"how far would you like to take this, because it is about to go further than you might be able to imagine"

[carbuncle]

Shankbone is now editing [[Phil Hall (US writer)]]. Oddly, no one is jumping to block him for disruptive behaviour.

This post has been edited by carbuncle:

[CharlotteWebb]

Shankbone is now editing [[Phil Hall (US writer)]]. Oddly, no one is jumping to block him for disruptive behaviour.

Nor to delete the article… what gives?

[A Horse With No Name]

Shankbone is now editing [[Phil Hall (US writer)]]. Oddly, no one is jumping to block him for disruptive behaviour.

Quel coincidence? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

And now, David Shankbone in "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322736548

Ignoring the obvious embellishment of a certain incident that appears to be second in severity to Lee Harvey Oswald asking the elevator operator to take him to the sixth floor, there is one thing that stands out:

"Now he makes homophobic remarks about me on the WR. Sigh."

Well, it is nice to know that people are actually reading this stuff. You know, the biggest fear of any writer is that no one will read your work! This is a major relief! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

Sadly, earlier today, when I was still unaware of this Shank-Lar exchange, I actually emailed David with an offer to interview him for one of my media outlets about his celebrity photography work. Why? Because I honestly began to feel sorry for him and the crap that he must be going through by having so many people dumping on him. Yeah, Horsey is a secret softie. Plus, I did the same thing with Michael Q. Schmidt – when his vanity article was barely saved from two AfDs, I did a quickie interview with him and that gave the WP article cred – the third AfD was quickly squashed thanks to that.

Without solid references, the Shankbone article will always be in danger of deletion. But, really, who is going to interview an amateur photographer? I figured, what the hell – I have no problems with shameless self-promoters, and it wouldn’t cost me anything to make someone feel good.

After reading his vitriol, however, I think that my sympathy for David was a waste of time. You really can't be nice to people, if it is to make amends for earlier muck. Oh well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Alison]

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

[tarantino]

And now, David Shankbone in "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322736548

I thought he said he was going on vacation 2 days ago?

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Airplane_silhouette_45degree_angle.svg/75px-Airplane_silhouette_45degree_angle.svg.png)This user is currently, or is about to be, on vacation in real life and cannot reply to queries, messages or complaints.

[A Horse With No Name]

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

My thanks to the Oversight team for taking care of this in a prompt and professional manner. And thank you, Alison, for making sure the article about my favorite writer is protected! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

I thought he said he was going on vacation 2 days ago?

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Airplane_silhouette_45degree_angle.svg/75px-Airplane_silhouette_45degree_angle.svg.png)This user is currently, or is about to be, on vacation in real life and cannot reply to queries, messages or complaints.

Mr. T., you forgot our cardinal rule - never believe anything you read on Wikipedia! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Cla68]

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

Did Mr. Miller blatently violate OUT and NPA in a BLP with edits that had to be oversighted? If so, why wasn't he blocked for a month or so?

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[Alison]

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

Did Mr. Miller blatently violate OUT and NPA in a BLP with edits that had to be oversighted? If so, why wasn't he blocked for a month or so?

It wasn't in a BLP, but on his talk page. But yeah - NPA and WP:OUTING (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I dunno about a block. The primary thing re. oversight was in the removal of the edits. Can't talk about the rest (privacy!) but blocking didn't really come up, for some reason. I guess that blocking Shankbone would set off a shitstorm of epic proportions. And he's likely to go after the oversight people, too, who are just doing their job ....

[The Joy]

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

Did Mr. Miller blatently violate OUT and NPA in a BLP with edits that had to be oversighted? If so, why wasn't he blocked for a month or so?

It wasn't in a BLP, but on his talk page. But yeah - NPA and WP:OUTING (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I dunno about a block. The primary thing re. oversight was in the removal of the edits. Can't talk about the rest (privacy!) but blocking didn't really come up, for some reason. I guess that blocking Shankbone would set off a shitstorm of epic proportions. And he's likely to go after the oversight people, too, who are just doing their job ....

Are you saying that David Shankbone is the Teflon Don (T-H-L-K-D) of Wikipedia? No one can ban him and keep him banned? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohnoes.gif)

[Alison]

Are you saying that David Shankbone is the Teflon Don (T-H-L-K-D) of Wikipedia? No one can ban him and keep him banned? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohnoes.gif)

Nahh. That'll be either Giano or vintageKits (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Seriously, I think you have a point. Blocking Shankbone is highly unlikely to stick (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

Are you saying that David Shankbone is the Teflon Don (T-H-L-K-D) of Wikipedia? No one can ban him and keep him banned? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohnoes.gif)

Nahh. That'll be either Giano or vintageKits (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Seriously, I think you have a point. Blocking Shankbone is highly unlikely to stick (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Well, there is the double or triple standard at work again -- blocking policy is completely inconsistent.

Personally, I believe that all user Talk Pages should be eliminated and all conversation should be on the article talk pages. That would erase at least half of the drama on WP and put the focus back where it should be.

[LaraLove]

Personally, I believe that all user Talk Pages should be eliminated and all conversation should be on the article talk pages. That would erase at least half of the drama on WP and put the focus back where it should be.

How would people get warnings that their edits are unwelcome, or notifications that they've been taken to ANI or ArbCom?

[The Joy]

Are you saying that David Shankbone is the Teflon Don (T-H-L-K-D) of Wikipedia? No one can ban him and keep him banned? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohnoes.gif)

Nahh. That'll be either Giano or vintageKits (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Seriously, I think you have a point. Blocking Shankbone is highly unlikely to stick (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Well, there is the double or triple standard at work again -- blocking policy is completely inconsistent.

Personally, I believe that all user Talk Pages should be eliminated and all conversation should be on the article talk pages. That would erase at least half of the drama on WP and put the focus back where it should be.

You should have seen Shankbone last year (was it really just last year?) when he went completely insane on WikiNews, Encyclopedia Dramatica, and Wikipedia claiming someone was out to get him, when it turned out to be... him out to get him. It was a strange... episode. I'm not even sure Rod Serling could explain it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

He really went too far. As an anon, he committed some major, major BLP violations on one of his supposed "enemies." Why on earth he isn't indefinitely blocked or preferably banned from all WMF wikis, I have no idea! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

[LaraLove]

You should have seen Shankbone last year (was it really just last year?) when he went completely insane on WikiNews, Encyclopedia Dramatica, and Wikipedia claiming someone was out to get him, when it turned out to be... him out to get him. It was a strange... episode. I'm not even sure Rod Serling could explain it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

He really went too far. As an anon, he committed some major, major BLP violations on one of his supposed "enemies." Why on earth he isn't indefinitely blocked or preferably banned from all WMF wikis, I have no idea! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Links?

[A Horse With No Name]

Personally, I believe that all user Talk Pages should be eliminated and all conversation should be on the article talk pages. That would erase at least half of the drama on WP and put the focus back where it should be.

How would people get warnings that their edits are unwelcome, or notifications that they've been taken to ANI or ArbCom?

Personal message function -- not unlike PM here on WR.

PS: David gave permission to delete the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:David_Shankbone



This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Cla68]

As a P.S. -- Shankbone has since gone ballistic, to the point of violating WP:OUTING and WP:NPA. No one is going to block him, of course. Oh, the claim that he didn't know who the Horse really is seems curious -- why is he editing that article, of all things? Hmmmm. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

These edits have now been suppressed, as indeed they should have been. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

Did Mr. Miller blatently violate OUT and NPA in a BLP with edits that had to be oversighted? If so, why wasn't he blocked for a month or so?

It wasn't in a BLP, but on his talk page. But yeah - NPA and WP:OUTING (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I dunno about a block. The primary thing re. oversight was in the removal of the edits. Can't talk about the rest (privacy!) but blocking didn't really come up, for some reason. I guess that blocking Shankbone would set off a shitstorm of epic proportions. And he's likely to go after the oversight people, too, who are just doing their job ....

Do you know offhand if any other edits of his in the past were oversighted for similar reasons?

[Alison]

Do you know offhand if any other edits of his in the past were oversighted for similar reasons?

Who, David's? I honestly can't remember. There was that whole stalking thing from last year where he was being messed about on-wiki, and I know there were oversights done then. Did some myself, I think. Either way, can't say anything about their content, etc (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[Cla68]

Do you know offhand if any other edits of his in the past were oversighted for similar reasons?

Who, David's? I honestly can't remember. There was that whole stalking thing from last year where he was being messed about on-wiki, and I know there were oversights done then. Did some myself, I think. Either way, can't say anything about their content, etc (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

I think someone just oversighted a question I placed on Miller's talkpage. Sorry, Horse, when I wrote the question I didn't realize at that time that the information hadn't been publicly revealed.

[Alison]

I think someone just oversighted a question I placed on Miller's talkpage. Sorry, Horse, when I wrote the question I didn't realize at that time that the information hadn't been publicly revealed.

Actually, I just did that (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) There were complaints! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

I think someone just oversighted a question I placed on Miller's talkpage. Sorry, Horse, when I wrote the question I didn't realize at that time that the information hadn't been publicly revealed.

It happens. In fact, it happened twice today. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Cla68]

I think someone just oversighted a question I placed on Miller's talkpage. Sorry, Horse, when I wrote the question I didn't realize at that time that the information hadn't been publicly revealed.

It happens. In fact, it happened twice today. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Sorry again. Serves me right for trying to get involved with something outside of article space. I need to remember to keep my head down and focus solely on how many aircraft were shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea and other important issues like that.

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[LaraLove]

I don't normally reveal the contents of emails without permission of the person(s) involved, but in cases where I get this sort of message, it seems unnecessary to even request it.

Remember to read from the bottom up.

From: David Shankbone
Date: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Your BLP
To: Me

Your user page looked better when it had your Rosiesque forehead on it. Thanks goodness you have a nice complexion for all that skin, so why did you switch to kissing rodents?


>On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Lara wrote:

>Because of some questionable Wikipedia system emails. I don't like responding to those with my
>real last name. I'll change it back once the correspondence there is completed. Next day or so.

>Were you going to answer my questions?

>Lara


>>On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 7:21 PM, David Shankbone wrote:

>>lol. Why did you change from "Lara <last name redacted>" to "Lara Jennavecia"?


>>>On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Lara wrote:

>>>David,

>>>I'm glad you enjoy the "frothing" at WR. How do you feel about the frothing on WP?

>>>I think you previously denied being active on ED. Do you still claim that you haven't in the
>>>past and do not currently place negative information about people on ED?

>>>Also, do you still contend that you had no previous knowledge that your friend/associate
>>>/acquaintance was writing an article on you?

>>>Lara

I do have a big forehead, but I actually have a terrible complexion. Much like a teenager. It does contribute to my youthful appearance though. Silver linings, people.

Anyway. In refusing to answer the questions, I take it as confirmation.

[LaraLove]

And I've officially been threatened with the blog.

[Cla68]

And I've officially been threatened with the blog.

Did he threaten you by email? If so, that plus what he did on his userpage a few hours ago could probably qualify Mr. Miller for an extended vacation from Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by Cla68:

[tarantino]

Pete Forsyth, Public Outreach Officer for the Wikimedia Foundation and Shankbone.org webmaster, are you responsible for these meta tags?

<meta name="description" content="Famed Wikipedia photographer and writer David Shankbone, Vice President of Wikimedia New York City, Inc., writes about life, politics and culture from his perspective." />
<meta name="keywords" content="Images, Samsung Memoir, New York City, Mainstream Media, Life, Death, Culture, Tribeca Film Festival, Sex, Gay, Homosexuality, Travel, Photography, Fox News, MSNBC, New York Times, Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, Creative Commons, Seth Finkelstein, Wikipedia Review, Jimmy Wales, Larry Sanger, East Village" />

When was your friend appointed as a vice president of Wikimedia NYC? It's not mentioned in either the certificate of incorporation or on the WMNYC Meta page.

[LaraLove]

And I've officially been threatened with the blog.

Did he threaten you by email? If so, that plus what he did on his userpage a few hours ago could probably qualify Mr. Miller for an extended vacation from Wikipedia.

It's not like a serious threat. It's just a "threat". I'll post it. I already informed him that I had put the last four emails of our exchange here.

He refused to answer my questions, citing his soon-to-begin vacation, and he stated "I'll be catching up on on [sic] a backlog with the blog, but otherwise, no time now."

Pete Forsyth, Public Outreach Officer for the Wikimedia Foundation and Shankbone.org webmaster, are you responsible for these meta tags?

<meta name="description" content="Famed Wikipedia photographer and writer David Shankbone, Vice President of Wikimedia New York City, Inc., writes about life, politics and culture from his perspective." />
<meta name="keywords" content="Images, Samsung Memoir, New York City, Mainstream Media, Life, Death, Culture, Tribeca Film Festival, Sex, Gay, Homosexuality, Travel, Photography, Fox News, MSNBC, New York Times, Wikipedia, Wikimedia Foundation, Creative Commons, Seth Finkelstein, Wikipedia Review, Jimmy Wales, Larry Sanger, East Village" />

When was your friend appointed as a vice president of Wikimedia NYC? It's not mentioned in either the certificate of incorporation or on the WMNYC Meta page.

He's also not a writer. He's a blogger.

[Kelly Martin]

How would people get warnings that their edits are unwelcome, or notifications that they've been taken to ANI or ArbCom?

By email, or by some other private message function. There is absolutely no reason such messages need to be public.

I'd ban user pages, too. Let people put a web page link in their user profile that people can click on. Giving people basically unlimited personal hosting space on the wiki is stupid.

[LaraLove]

When was your friend appointed as a vice president of Wikimedia NYC? It's not mentioned in either the certificate of incorporation or on the WMNYC Meta page.

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

Hey, they've got David Gerard in the UK, why not David Shankbone in NYC? Consistency is important people, and I'm not talking about first names.

[Somey]

Are you saying that David Shankbone is the Teflon Don (T-H-L-K-D) of Wikipedia? No one can ban him and keep him banned? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohnoes.gif)

Seriously, I think you have a point. Blocking Shankbone is highly unlikely to stick (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

If you decide you can no longer afford to feed your vicious attack dog, what do you do? You can't just let it out of its cage, because it'll go and attack your neighbors. You can't shoot it, because then you'll be accused of cruelty to animals. You can't give it to one of your friends, because you either don't have any (after all, you're the sort of person who keeps vicious attack dogs around) or you assume, correctly, that the dog will just attack your friends, and you too, once he's finished with them. You can't even give it to NFL quarterback Michael Vick (T-H-L-K-D), because he doesn't do that sort of thing anymore.

The fact is, if you trained the dog, that means you are the responsible party. I mean, sure, you could try re-training the dog to not attack people anymore, but who has the time? There are far more interesting things to do instead, such as sit back and watch your dog attack more people, just for one example.

The important thing here is that you shouldn't blame the dog. He's only doing what he's been trained to do.

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

Congratulations, Dave! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

As per his Talk Page:

"Yesterday I was offered a job in management at an influential law firm that I accepted; I'm dating someone I care about; and I have started to work on a series of stories that a couple of publishers have expressed interested in. I have a lot going on in real life! Nice things! Things that allow less and less time for WP:BS. Things that are not affected in the least by the presence or absence of a David Shankbone article. I didn't care if it existed, but the hypocrisy in asking for a delete appalled me."

[Cedric]

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

As per his Talk Page:

"Yesterday I was offered a job in management at an influential law firm that I accepted; I'm dating someone I care about; and I have started to work on a series of stories that a couple of publishers have expressed interested in. I have a lot going on in real life! Nice things! Things that allow less and less time for WP:BS. Things that are not affected in the least by the presence or absence of a David Shankbone article. I didn't care if it existed, but the hypocrisy in asking for a delete appalled me."

Sounds like an office manager's job, since we know that Shankers did not complete law school and would not be eligible to take the bar exam. Not a good job for "getting known in your field", but still an important and responsible position within a firm. However, larger firms have other non-practitioner management positions. Maybe he is being put in charge of the para-legals (assuming he isn't making it up).

[Somey]

Sounds like an office manager's job, since we know that Shankers did not complete law school and would not be eligible to take the bar exam. Not a good job for "getting known in your field", but still an important and responsible position within a firm. However, larger firms have other non-practitioner management positions. Maybe he is being put in charge of the para-legals (assuming he isn't making it up).

I see no reason not to take him at his word, personally. To some extent we're influenced by things like his use of the "Vice President of Wikimedia NYC" title as if it's actually meaningful, but hey, somebody has to be Vice President (though it's actually three or four people, IIRC) in case the President (whoever he is) dies, disappears, is sent upstairs to his room with no dinner, or more likely, is banned for "abusive sockpuppetry."

The fact of it is, anything that gets Shankers away from the interwebs, even for a few extra hours at a time, is something we should support and encourage. If he really is planning to cut back on Wikipedia-related activities in favor of endeavors that might actually serve to advance his career and improve his personal life, then I for one wish him all the best, and I hope he finds tremendous future success.

On the other hand, if this is all just a ruse, preparatory to some ill-advised petty-revenge plan against various people who have thwarted him in some way... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

[tarantino]

When was your friend appointed as a vice president of Wikimedia NYC? It's not mentioned in either the certificate of incorporation or on the WMNYC Meta page.

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

Hey, they've got David Gerard in the UK, why not David Shankbone in NYC? Consistency is important people, and I'm not talking about first names.

OK, I now see when he was appointed VP.
The Wikimedia New York City meta page used to say:

We approved this list of temporary officers in September 2008:

* President: Pharos
* Secretary: Daniel Case
* Treasurer: MBisanz
* Vice Presidents:

* Becksguy
* David Shankbone
* DGG
* Gosgood
* Jeremyb

* Press Secretary: Raina noor

President Pharos changed it in July to read:

The incorporators who signed our non-profit charter in March 2009 are:

* President: Pharos
* Secretary: Daniel Case
* Treasurer: MBisanz
* Vice Presidents:

* Becksguy
* DGG
* Gosgood
* Jeremyb

Wikimedia chapters still mentions the original line up, which was added in an edit by a 13 year old Brazilian.

[Somey]

President Pharos changed it in July to read... (snip)

See, now my guess is that this is actually a red herring, and David's now being held in reserve as a kind of "emergency shadow government" in case the seven publicly-visible Wikimedia NYC officers are wiped out by a thermonuclear attack. He'll be ready at a moment's notice to take over the reins and direct a coordinated response against the attackers from his secret, hidden underground bunker, assuming of course that the Encyclopedia Dramatica servers are still running at that point.

[LaraLove]

When was your friend appointed as a vice president of Wikimedia NYC? It's not mentioned in either the certificate of incorporation or on the WMNYC Meta page.

I assume this is new based on an email I just got from David wherein he says he's got a "new job" in "management."

Hey, they've got David Gerard in the UK, why not David Shankbone in NYC? Consistency is important people, and I'm not talking about first names.

OK, I now see when he was appointed VP.
The Wikimedia New York City meta page used to say:

We approved this list of temporary officers in September 2008:

* President: Pharos
* Secretary: Daniel Case
* Treasurer: MBisanz
* Vice Presidents:

* Becksguy
* David Shankbone
* DGG
* Gosgood
* Jeremyb

* Press Secretary: Raina noor

President Pharos changed it in July to read:

The incorporators who signed our non-profit charter in March 2009 are:

* President: Pharos
* Secretary: Daniel Case
* Treasurer: MBisanz
* Vice Presidents:

* Becksguy
* DGG
* Gosgood
* Jeremyb

Wikimedia chapters still mentions the original line up, which was added in an edit by a 13 year old Brazilian.

I'm confused on the whole thing, but I see from Horsey he made some announcement on his talk page about a law firm. He did mention at one point in an email that he was a law student or something. So many law students on Wikipedia.

Anyway, now I'm being accused by him of mischaracterizing his email and of slandering him. I'd like someone to please point out for me where I slandered the former law student. I guess that's another way to avoid addressing the actual issues. And Benjiboi is accusing me of harassing David, in his view.

[Somey]

I'd like someone to please point out for me where I slandered the former law student.

You called him a "blogger, not a writer." Technically, a blog is a form of written communication, so he may have a point to some extent.

However, an experienced "writer" would also know that "slander" is, technically, a spoken (not written) form of communication.

[Kelly Martin]

However, an experienced "writer" would also know that "slander" is, technically, a spoken (not written) form of communication.

Which is why it's been a longstanding rule that anyone who complains about being 'slandered' on a Internet BBS or forum or whatever is almost certainly a crank.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm confused on the whole thing...

Well, try singing this tune...these guys might appreciate it.

[LaraLove]

I'd like someone to please point out for me where I slandered the former law student.

You called him a "blogger, not a writer." Technically, a blog is a form of written communication, so he may have a point to some extent.

However, an experienced "writer" would also know that "slander" is, technically, a spoken (not written) form of communication.

This was removed from his article before it was deleted. Writer, to me, implies a paid profession. He writes in his blog and for Wikinews, right? So do lots of people. I don't think that makes them "writers." My boyfriend writes as a hobby. Doesn't make him a writer.

[tarantino]

Because people are being mean to him, David Shankbone has had to interrupt his vacation.

His responses are very educational. I've learned that it's OK for him to lie to some one, if they're a 20 something desysopped Wikipedia editor with a big forehead, since his bio that was created by a real world friend was deleted anyways.

[GlassBeadGame]

Because people are being mean to him, David Shankbone has had to interrupt his vacation.

His responses are very educational. I've learned that it's OK for him to lie to some one, if they're a 20 something desysopped Wikipedia editor with a big forehead, since his bio that was created by a real world friend was deleted anyways.

What a whining prima donna.

[LaraLove]

And his friends and supporters are constantly rushing in to remove comments, archive, and otherwise shutdown discussion. He can spin the situation, but me commenting is "harassment".

[GlassBeadGame]

I think it's time that someone took on a project of putting up a website (maybe hosted on Wikia) of Shankbone's photos of celebs and people in public life and then using the free license to photoshop and adding penis vandalism or whatever seems to most bother his subjects, always giving ample attribution to Mr. Miller. It would be a good educational device on the nature of free culture.

[thekohser]

My favorite "Conflict of Irony" edit for the month of November!

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

I think it's time that someone took on a project of putting up a website (maybe hosted on Wikia) of Shankbone's photos of celebs and people in public life and then using the free license to photoshop and adding penis vandalism or whatever seems to most bother his subjects, always giving ample attribution to Mr. Miller. It would be a good educational device on the nature of free culture.

Just do not use Flickr to host the photos or 'The They' will have them deleted, regardless of the open license ... God, is this 'dwama' still going on, and on, and on? It's good enough idea to pull me back out of early retirement.

Remember those pissing goats and Hebrew incontinence pants folks ... adult diapers by David Shankbone ... Israel paid good money to have those photos taken!

Could I suggest that another "leading Wikipedian", who does wish to explore these issues of genuinely pertinent ethics, contact Joel Lion at the Israeli Consulate for an explanation on his government's position on these matters?

If they did, could they ask for a breakdown of the finances involved and some indication of whether he will be continuing the Consulate's ... sorry, I wrote 'con-[i]slut-ate' there by accident[/i] ... active relationship with ex-prostitute, hard core pornographer and Saranga/Shankbone associate Michael Lucas?

Do they know anything of the Shankbone/Saranga/Lucas/Wikipedia tryst ... was it official policy? Were there other conslutate expenses involved? Was it considered a good investment for Israel?

Joel "Big Gun" Lion is contactable, here but it would be better done in person or by phone by a responsible individual. I am sure many would be genuinely interested to know what direction the consulate will be pursuing with regards the Wikipedia, and Web 2.0.

Honestly folks ... its a story. Even better ... it is a story with hot pictures.

Government funding ... hard core penis pornography ... Jimmy Wales protecting 'interest parties' ... Wikipedia ... where is the responsible media!?!

Speaking Anne Frankly, I would find it difficult to believe that the choice of an appointment of an orthodox rabbi, albeit one that has been a Sergeant-Major in the IDF Artillery Corps, is not entirely disconnected to the Maxim controversy and all this.

As an aside ... the sycophants (aka David Shankbone aka WatchingWhales and Benjiboi) are still up to their crap smear on the Pee-dia pumping their PR ... and god know what else.

Lucas, under the microphone, on the set of Men of Israel, the first adult film to use exclusively Jewish models.

Get a life folks ... how long do they think Jewish people have been in the smut film industry? Pick your choice of references from David Duke to The Jewish Quarterly and read up on Professor Nathan Abrams critique of the same. The 'first' would be way back early last century ... any way you like it. It is not even the quote, as given by the reference, which says Israeli ... an equally idiotic claim. Do they honestly believe no one in Tel Aviv had a VHS camera?

It is all just more piss poor Pee-dia PR for his pouting matie, and friend of the consulate, Lucas. I wish that at least the tarts were less vain and more informed, and not queening it up all over 'our' encyclopedia. Whose sock was "I smell beaver" anyway?

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

It is funny but even one of the porn stars in the movie says more in two sentences which are not quote on the Pee-dia,

“A great analogy for Michael is Ann Coulter. He’s a person who doesn’t really have anything to contribute artistically, so they compensate with outlandish claims.”

Which Shankbone then copies onto the Pee-dia and Benjiboi defends.

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:

[Happy drinker]

I think it's time that someone took on a project of putting up a website (maybe hosted on Wikia) of Shankbone's photos of celebs and people in public life and then using the free license to photoshop and adding penis vandalism or whatever seems to most bother his subjects, always giving ample attribution to Mr. Miller.

If you're so minded, you can do that with any photo of a living person on Commons, or with a CC licence on Flickr. Why pick on those made by a particular person? Just because some of his photos may be considered of an obscene nature is no reason to rubbish those that are undoubtedly of a useful and encyclopedic nature.

[the fieryangel]

I think it's time that someone took on a project of putting up a website (maybe hosted on Wikia) of Shankbone's photos of celebs and people in public life and then using the free license to photoshop and adding penis vandalism or whatever seems to most bother his subjects, always giving ample attribution to Mr. Miller.

If you're so minded, you can do that with any photo of a living person on Commons, or with a CC licence on Flickr. Why pick on those made by a particular person? Just because some of his photos may be considered of an obscene nature is no reason to rubbish those that are undoubtedly of a useful and encyclopedic nature.

Your mask is slipping, dear....

[LaraLove]

My favorite "Conflict of Irony" edit for the month of November!

Skip forward a couple, they get better. I have the word "retarded" tossed my way by someone who is apparently mildly illiterate.

[victim of censorship]

If you decide you can no longer afford to feed your vicious attack dog, what do you do? You can't just let it out of its cage, because it'll go and attack your neighbors. You can't shoot it, because then you'll be accused of cruelty to animals. You can't give it to one of your friends, because you either don't have any (after all, you're the sort of person who keeps vicious attack dogs around) or you assume, correctly, that the dog will just attack your friends, and you too, once he's finished with them. You can't even give it to NFL quarterback Michael Vick (T-H-L-K-D), because he doesn't do that sort of thing anymore.

The fact is, if you trained the dog, that means you are the responsible party. I mean, sure, you could try re-training the dog to not attack people anymore, but who has the time? There are far more interesting things to do instead, such as sit back and watch your dog attack more people, just for one example.

The important thing here is that you shouldn't blame the dog. He's only doing what he's been trained to do.

Congratulations, Dave! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

GOD, this made me spray though my nose with laughter...

This is exacly what what has happen, Jimbo dog is now on the lose on the internet and it's out of control biting any one, which stands in the way.

God, this is clever (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[tarantino]

i agree 100% with ne2 - clearly jennavecia coming on to shankbone's page with retarded conspiracy theories and with no support whatsoever was beyond shankbone needing to respond. he should have just ignored what were clearly stupid charges nobody buys - shankbone, enjoy your vacation and don't get fooled into responding. i agree with NE2 on not needing to answer that stupid crap. huckandraz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huckandraz (talk • contribs) 06:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's a conspiracy theory for you, John. You use multiple accounts to give yourself positive ratings on book review sites. For example, the majority of the 6 accounts that review this book are actually you, which has been confirmed by the site's owner.

Given your own web 2.0 history, it's unsurprising that you have no problem with others behaving unethically to promote themselves and their friends.

[the fieryangel]

i agree 100% with ne2 - clearly jennavecia coming on to shankbone's page with retarded conspiracy theories and with no support whatsoever was beyond shankbone needing to respond. he should have just ignored what were clearly stupid charges nobody buys - shankbone, enjoy your vacation and don't get fooled into responding. i agree with NE2 on not needing to answer that stupid crap. huckandraz —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huckandraz (talk • contribs) 06:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Here's a conspiracy theory for you, John. You use multiple accounts to give yourself positive ratings on book review sites. For example, the majority of the 6 accounts that review this book are actually you, which has been confirmed by the site's owner.

Given your own web 2.0 history, it's unsurprising that you have no problem with others behaving unethically to promote themselves and their friends.

This one is priceless :

This is absolutely the masterpiece of that moment. ("five stars")
Huckandraz | May 15, 2007 |

[Gazimoff]

This one is priceless :

This is absolutely the masterpiece of that moment. ("five stars")
Huckandraz | May 15, 2007 |

That's interesting... have you seen the recent contribs of User: Huckandraz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...ions/Huckandraz

[the fieryangel]

This one is priceless :

This is absolutely the masterpiece of that moment. ("five stars")
Huckandraz | May 15, 2007 |

That's interesting... have you seen the recent contribs of User: Huckandraz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...ions/Huckandraz

Yes, this thread should explain what's going on here.

[Gazimoff]

Yes, this thread should explain what's going on here.

Good grief. I do hope that this affair doesn't end up in the same way as the confused civil servant with the collection of female photos

[LaraLove]

This one is priceless :

This is absolutely the masterpiece of that moment. ("five stars")
Huckandraz | May 15, 2007 |

That's interesting... have you seen the recent contribs of User: Huckandraz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...ions/Huckandraz

I'm surprised they've remained. We don't typically see red links allowed to sit in lists.

[A Horse With No Name]

So when is this going to finally wrap up? The DRV is still dribbling on, with no end in sight. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[The Joy]

So when is this going to finally wrap up? The DRV is still dribbling on, with no end in sight. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

Isn't it usually a week on DRV before a decision is made?

Regardless of the result, I do not envy the closing administrator! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

Now that I think of it, DRV just asks if the XFD process was followed and if the status quo should change or remain.

If it is found that process was not followed correctly by the closing admin, doesn't that mean that the article will have to go back through XFD again? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[Gazimoff]

If it is found that process was not followed correctly by the closing admin, doesn't that mean that the article will have to go back through XFD again? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

I have no idea. What happens if the DRV ends up as No Consensus?

[The Joy]

If it is found that process was not followed correctly by the closing admin, doesn't that mean that the article will have to go back through XFD again? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

I have no idea. What happens if the DRV ends up as No Consensus?

Traditionally, it is status quo ante bellum or "No consensus, Default Keep." This, however, is a BLP article. Some administrators have deleted BLP's with no consensus and some have not. That's what is being debated. If current practice has been to delete BLPs with "no consensus" and Lar, Lara, and all can prove that is what is happening, then it would be "delete" as current practice dictates current policy, not the other way around.

That is what is going on, right? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif)

[Mike R]

Black Kite has closed DRV as endorsed.

This post has been edited by Mike R:

[tarantino]

I think it's time that someone took on a project of putting up a website (maybe hosted on Wikia) of Shankbone's photos of celebs and people in public life and then using the free license to photoshop and adding penis vandalism or whatever seems to most bother his subjects, always giving ample attribution to Mr. Miller.

If you're so minded, you can do that with any photo of a living person on Commons, or with a CC licence on Flickr. Why pick on those made by a particular person? Just because some of his photos may be considered of an obscene nature is no reason to rubbish those that are undoubtedly of a useful and encyclopedic nature.

In honor of Shankbone's Fat Jenny account on Commons, I've photoshopped his head on to the picture that used to illustrate the user page.

(IMG:http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg231/sonitnarat/jenny1.jpg)

[A Horse With No Name]

Black Kite has closed DRV as endorsed.

In all seriousness, BK offered some of the best writing on WP. It is a very intelligent and thoughtful closure.

[Alison]

Black Kite has closed DRV as endorsed.

Thank goodness!! I'm just glad the drama-ridden shitstorm has finally ended* (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif) I had to eventually keep away for my own sanity.

(* I hope!)

[Tarc]

Black Kite has closed DRV as endorsed.

Thank goodness!! I'm just glad the drama-ridden shitstorm has finally ended* (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif) I had to eventually keep away for my own sanity.

(* I hope!)

There's still a bit of prattling on the DRV talk page, mostly by Noroton and Cylopia (of "we must honor the bunny lady!" fame).

[A Horse With No Name]

There's still a bit of prattling on the DRV talk page, mostly by Noroton and Cylopia (of "we must honor the bunny lady!" fame).

Eh, there will be a new version of the article. Part Deux should be coming for the new year. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif)