Calling all "Vandals" Options

[DiotimaPhil]

Greetings Wikipedia Review!

I am a documentary filmmaker and I am currently working on a project about Wikipedia. We are interested in getting in touch with anyone who has deliberately engaged in “vandalism” activities on Wikipedia.

This project is an attempt to understanding what Wikipedia vandalism looks like, how it is done, what motivates those who participate in such activities, and what the broader implications are for Wikipedia and other information sources. It is important to note that we are in no way condoning or approving of vandalizing Wikipedia. We simply want to know all about it.

$500 will be awarded for submissions chosen to be featured in the film.

Guidelines:

- Ideally, we are looking for vandalism that has survived a long time, and preferably that has not yet been dealt with by the Wikipedia community.
- We are looking for content vandalism, or vandalism that promotes claims known by the editor to be untrue or unsubstantiated. Other forms of vandalism will be considered.
- No new vandalism! We do not want to encourage vandalism activities, so only existing vandalism, conducted prior to the first of April, 2011, will be considered.

Please contact me at phil@diotimaproductions.com for more information.

Thanks,

Phil Eldred
Diotima Productions

[thekohser]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

That got me to looking, and I found PhilEldred.com, which was registered March 10, 2007 (so that's good).

DiotimaProductions.com was first registered only two weeks ago (not so good), and certainly doesn't look like it has a spare $500 to spend. But, at least the site does trace back to:

Philip Eldred
1273 18th St
Sarasota, FL 34234
Phone: +1.352.804.8754
E-mail: phil.eldred@gmail.com

So, Philip can you provide us some assurance that you're not just a Wikipedia lover, looking to "out" some vandalism, with no intention of paying the $500? Do you have a contract of some sort that you would sign with bounty-hunters BEFORE they divulge their findings to you? Are you related to this Phil Eldred, videographer, in the Philadelphia area?

This post has been edited by thekohser:

[DiotimaPhil]

I appreciate your skepticism! If you weren't skeptical I wouldn't take you seriously...

I am in fact who I say I am, but please feel free to use any and all methods you deem fit to verify this. You have already found my personal email, my address, my old phone number, which I have made no effort to hide (from you, anyway).

As to your concerns...

Diotima Productions is a new company. We formed only in December, 2010, and have until now had no need for a website.

The $500 reward is real, and we are prepared with contracts, etc to ensure the interests of all involved parties. We don't expect anyone to out their work right up front. If you have something you think would be valuable to our project, then we would first discuss with you in broad strokes what sort of contribution you can make (without getting into specifics that would expose your work to revision), and if it sounds like something we would be interested in, we will get down to working out the contractual details so that all parties are secure in their involvement and are clear as to what is expected of them.

I am not related to the videographer in Philly (to my knowledge).

A Wikipedia lover? Well, that is hard to say. I use Wikipedia, sure enough. I am happy to make use of it. Yet I am also aware of some of the structural problems inherent in Wikipedia's design, and part of this project is about sharing with a broader audience some of the nuances of how Wikipedia works/doesn't work. I am afraid there isn't much I can do to assure you that I am not simply using extreme measures to out vandalism for Wikipedia policing purposes. But, if you contact me through private means, we can begin to get to know each other, and hopefully in time you will see that I am sincere in my intentions simply to make a film about Wikipedia that focuses on issues pertaining to vandalism.

With regard to your "bounty hunter" comment, I only wish to say that we would prefer to be in touch with "vandals" directly, rather than folks who may simply be aware of vandalism, simply because we want to understand and explore the reasons why people engage in Wikipedia vandalism. That being said, we are happy to learn whatever we can about Wikipedia vandalism, regardless of the source of that information.

And, of course, there are strings attached to that $500 reward. We are in the position to honor our $500 offer, but at the same time, as you have pointed out, we are a new company and cannot simply be mailing out checks for every random screen shot of simple and obvious vandalism. We are looking for cases of vandalism that are not obvious and that have survived for quite a while. We will only be selecting a few submissions, and we are committed to treating all submissions not chosen for use in the film as confidential.

In the end, you will either trust me, or you won't. But I am committed to this project. Wikipedia is a far more interesting and complicated place than most people know, and the contributions of vandals can often be the most illuminating, and most unappreciated, in this regard. I simply want to share with a broader audience the fascinating but hidden world that I have come to know through my research and my experiences as a Wikipedia user. But I want to do so in a way with which my contributors are comfortable, realizing that I am digging into a subject that many are not comfortable speaking about openly.

Thanks again for your skepticism. But, if you would like more specific details about me or my project, please direct your questions to my email address phil@diotimaproductions.com After all, you are not the only one who should be skeptical in this interaction, and I have an interest in not sharing every last detail of my life and project with the general public, as I am sure you can understand.

- Phil

This post has been edited by DiotimaPhil:

[lilburne]

Do you know what 'vandalism' is? It ranges from the "X is TEH gay HHAHAHA" and "Y is a HOE HAHAHAHA" the sort of felt tip pen scrawling you might see on the backs of bus seats, through to the somewhat artistic tagging one might see on the side of subway trains, all the way through to subtle and creative acts of mischief on par with a work by Banksy.

The bots and foot soldiers take care of the former, the admins are mostly engage in daubing the subway trains, and the WMF supplies the paint. No one has yet found a way to clean up after them. The Banksy style activity ....

This post has been edited by lilburne:

[Detective]

Even if AGF we accept DiotimaPhil at his face value, will he reveal enough details of this lovingly created vandalism to enable it to be rectified? I have never vandalised anything myself, but I fully appreciate that the sort of sophisticated vandals who remain undetected for months or years won't want to see their vandalism fixed.

On another tack, it might be argued that the sort of vandals who really ought to get prominence are the long-term POV pushers who distort articles. They are of course nearly all admins or protected by admins, or they'd never get away with it.

[Eva Destruction]

Easily solved—if DiotimaPhil is legitimate, then examples of vandalism which have already been caught and reverted would serve just as well. If DiotimaPhil is an admin fishing for vandals to block, then I'm sure I speak for the rest of The Cabal in saying this is a really lame-ass way to go about it.

[Jon Awbrey]

Then again, it could be just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by just another Wikipediot with nothing better to do than waste the time of Wikipedia Reviewiots who have nothing better to do than let their be wasted by …

[anthony]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

Agreed. If the offer had been for less, I might have bitten.

[A User]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

Agreed. If the offer had been for less, I might have bitten.

Same. Even big film studios wouldn't give away $500 for something that can be found for free.

[thekohser]

Well, I've disclosed to Phil my three best vandalizing edits (all were already known). The cinematic gold in those edits is the personal back-story and, of course, my magnetic charm. So, I offered to participate in his documentary for free -- no $500 needed. Now we'll see if it's a sham or not.

[Jon Awbrey]

Too bad the best story ever can't be told.

Kato knows …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[carbuncle]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

Agreed. If the offer had been for less, I might have bitten.

Same. Even big film studios wouldn't give away $500 for something that can be found for free.

Perhaps Mr Eldred has backers with deep pockets full of tax-exempt dollars? He seems to have commented on WP in the past.

[EricBarbour]

I'm not helping him. You folks can do as you wish, but the whole thing smells of crap-artistry.

If Phil is looking for vandalism, he could just type "Grawp" into the searchbox on WR.
Or "SPI", or "Tiptoety", or "Orangemike", or the names of several other admins who
are insanely obsessed with vandalistic socks. God only knows how many legitimate,
hapless ordinary user accounts those pricks have banned, because they only had to
claim sockpuppetry, slap down the Magical Rubberstamp, and poof, a contributor is
Cursed For All Eternity. (Actual provable vandalism not needed.)

Hey Phil! What about this? Or this?

And if Phil's looking for examples of the staggering levels of corruption, incompetence,
backstabbing, buttsnorkeling, manipulation, lying, etc. routinely practiced by WP's
administrative corps and Arbcom, all he has to do is look thru the Notable Editors and
Bureaucracy subsections on WR. Examples abound. The Gary Weiss story alone would
make for a riveting full-length documentary.

That's why this smells. No one has ever made a proper documentary about Wikipedia's
internal operations. That Truth In Numbers thing from 2008 came, and went.
Despite it being posted on YouTube for the past 3 years, very few people have seen it--
apparently because Jimbo's damaged fanbois disliked it. Because it wasn't full of
mindless Wiki-luv, it was a well-balanced (if brief) look at the "epiphenomenon".
That's a core truth of Wikipedia--its nut squad is insecure, neurotic, egotistical, and
unwilling to accept any kind of factual, honest criticism or guidance.

If Mr. Phil wants to make a "balanced" documentary, good luck to him. He'll have no shortage
of material to work with, especially if he wants to cover the WMF's corruption and incompetence.
But what does he show up on WR to ask for? Examples of nontrivial, long-lasting vandalism.
The one thing that WP's Faithful Fools are obsessed with, and violently opposed to. The one
thing they eat, sleep, and live for (in order to fight it, in their uniquely insane, unhinged way).

So, I have to think Phil wants to make a sensationalistic hit-piece, not a "documentary".
Obviously he's been communicating with WP administrative mutants, and they've been
feeding him their especially twisted view of what "Wiki-ality" is. He's accepting it as if
it were the work of rational minds.

If the WR mods are willing, I'd suggest giving Phil access to the private areas of WR.
Perhaps some more deep horror stories will make him sit up and take notice.
(I'm feeling optimistic today.)

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[A User]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

Agreed. If the offer had been for less, I might have bitten.

Same. Even big film studios wouldn't give away $500 for something that can be found for free.

Perhaps Mr Eldred has backers with deep pockets full of tax-exempt dollars? He seems to have commented on WP in the past.

CoS? Quite possible. Even more reason not to give them my contact details. I think Greg should be making a film documentary about Wikipedia. What do you think Greg? I'm sure with your media skills you can do a reasonable job of it.

[thekohser]

I think Greg should be making a film documentary about Wikipedia. What do you think Greg? I'm sure with your media skills you can do a reasonable job of it.

I'd only do it if my distant cousin, Emmy award-winning Greg Kohs, agreed to take on such a project.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Good God, if it went to broadcast it would then mean having a Wikipedia topic written about oneself for being "notable"!?!

[victim of censorship]

Greetings Wikipedia Review!

I am a documentary filmmaker and I am currently working on a project about Wikipedia. We are interested in getting in touch with anyone who has deliberately engaged in “vandalism” activities on Wikipedia.

This project is an attempt to understanding what Wikipedia vandalism looks like, how it is done, what motivates those who participate in such activities, and what the broader implications are for Wikipedia and other information sources. It is important to note that we are in no way condoning or approving of vandalizing Wikipedia. We simply want to know all about it.

$500 will be awarded for submissions chosen to be featured in the film.

Guidelines:

- Ideally, we are looking for vandalism that has survived a long time, and preferably that has not yet been dealt with by the Wikipedia community.
- We are looking for content vandalism, or vandalism that promotes claims known by the editor to be untrue or unsubstantiated. Other forms of vandalism will be considered.
- No new vandalism! We do not want to encourage vandalism activities, so only existing vandalism, conducted prior to the first of April, 2011, will be considered.

Please contact me at phil@diotimaproductions.com for more information.

Thanks,

Phil Eldred
Diotima Productions

Call me

[carbuncle]

Sounds suspicious, because $500 is a lot of money for a documentary film to be giving away.

Agreed. If the offer had been for less, I might have bitten.

Same. Even big film studios wouldn't give away $500 for something that can be found for free.

Perhaps Mr Eldred has backers with deep pockets full of tax-exempt dollars? He seems to have commented on WP in the past.

CoS? Quite possible. Even more reason not to give them my contact details. I think Greg should be making a film documentary about Wikipedia. What do you think Greg? I'm sure with your media skills you can do a reasonable job of it.

Actually, I was thinking of the highly secretive kettlebell industry, but the Cos sounds like a better guess and another reason to be wary. It is a bit of a stretch, but it would be amusing. Politics WP makes strange bedfellows.

[melloden]

Why do people always come to WR for these kind of things? Don't they know what WR is?

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Why do people always come to WR for these kind of things? Don't they know what WR is?

WR is ... whoever turns up on the day.

Care to discuss your ideas on the subject, Phil?

Personally, I think why not encourage a bit of demonstrative vandalism? If you want good TV, let us show you how it is done.

For me, I think "prank" rather than vandalism is a nicer notion ... how to write a spoof topic and make it stick ... can they tell the difference. There are also more interesting role play games going on that do not end in vandalism but territorial adjustments.

Why are you not thinking of picking up on some of the master sockpuppeteers and questioning them about their arts and motivations? Surely far more complex and interesting ...