The end of an era, in great need of ending. Options

[WordBomb]

I find that one of the strongest desires a person can have is to simply feel understood.

Something interesting happened in the middle of the now-legendary "Who is this?" thread: I finally felt understood (thanks to Milton Roe).

And that felt very good. And, it got me thinking.

They say that acid does far more damage to the vessel that holds it than it does to the object over which it is poured.

Every time the matter of my early clashes with SlimVirgin comes up, I'm reminded that for nearly three years, I've been carrying around some fairly strong acid, in the form of a festering resentment for the people and events associated with that time.

Well, I'm tired of it.

SlimVirgin and I have been in contact privately, and I daresay we finally understand one another. We've reached a mutual recognition of the fact that our early reactions were atypical and made worse by a particularly unusual sets of circumstances that greatly colored our frames of reference. We assumed the worst of each other and that brought out something less than the best in ourselves.

We've forgiven each other and the issue is now, officially, put to rest.

Having said that, I think there is a lot to learn from that episode, and so, while I have no intention of pretending it never happened, I'm simply done dealing with it from the standpoint of assigning blame.

And I must say, it feels much better this way.

[Jon Awbrey]

I find that one of the strongest desires a person can have is to simply feel understood.

Something interesting happened in the middle of the now-legendary "Who is this?" thread: I finally felt understood (thanks to Milton Roe).

And that felt very good. And, it got me thinking.

They say that acid does far more damage to the vessel that holds it than it does to the object over which it is poured.

Every time the matter of my early clashes with SlimVirgin comes up, I'm reminded that for nearly three years, I've been carrying around some fairly strong acid, in the form of a festering resentment for the people and events associated with that time.

Well, I'm tired of it.

SlimVirgin and I have been in contact privately, and I daresay we finally understand one another. We've reached a mutual recognition of the fact that our early reactions were atypical and made worse by a particularly unusual sets of circumstances that greatly colored our frames of reference. We assumed the worst of each other and that brought out something less than the best in ourselves.

We've forgiven each other and the issue is now, officially, put to rest.

Having said that, I think there is a lot to learn from that episode, and so, while I have no intention of pretending it never happened, I'm simply done dealing with it from the standpoint of assigning blame.

And I must say, it feels much better this way.

Nunc Dementis …

[WordBomb]

Nunc Dementis …

Were it anybody else, I'd assume you intended to say "Nunc dimittis" but I know Jon Awbrey always means what he says.

[Moulton]

Nunc Dementis …

Were it anybody else, I'd assume you intended to say "Nunc dimittis" but I know Jon Awbrey always means what he says.

And for those of us who rarely understand JA, I suppose it's Nunc Dimwittus.

[Milton Roe]

I find that one of the strongest desires a person can have is to simply feel understood.

Something interesting happened in the middle of the now-legendary "Who is this?" thread: I finally felt understood (thanks to Milton Roe).

And that felt very good. And, it got me thinking.

They say that acid does far more damage to the vessel that holds it than it does to the object over which it is poured.

I just read this. And I hope you will accept that, without any trace of sarcasm, I'm glad it worked out that way, for both of you. As my favorite character Alan Campbell in The Picture of Dorian Gray (recently alluded to, on WR) might have opined, there's only so much acid to go around. I even feel myself running low, now and again.

[the fieryangel]

I find that one of the strongest desires a person can have is to simply feel understood.

Something interesting happened in the middle of the now-legendary "Who is this?" thread: I finally felt understood (thanks to Milton Roe).

And that felt very good. And, it got me thinking.

They say that acid does far more damage to the vessel that holds it than it does to the object over which it is poured.

I just read this. And I hope you will accept that, without any trace of sarcasm, I'm glad it worked out that way, for both of you.

Let me second that, Uncle Miltie, as well as offering my compliments for a job well done.

It took us over 600 posts to get there, but the outcome is worth it!

[Jon Awbrey]

So it's true —

Too many ironies in the fire
Really doth quench the ire.

Do we change your name to WordSquib now?

Ja Ja

[Noroton]

So it's true —

Too many ironies in the fire
Really doth quench the ire.

Do we change your name to WordSquib now?

Ja Ja

Could Wordbomb's experience ever happen with Awbrey?








Naaaaah....

This post has been edited by Noroton: Fri 17th April 2009, 7:23pm

[Somey]

Naaaaah....

It's a completely different situation. Awbrey contributed lots of material to Wikipedia, in a highly complex and advanced topic area (actually more than one, as I recall). Since hardly anyone else understood it, it was labeled "Original Research" and the related articles messed with, pretty badly. Once the inner circle (or ASOTAC, as he used to call it) decided they were tired of being criticized by him for their various ethical inadequacies, etc., most notably his objection to the use of the term "wikilawyering," the rest was just the usual railroad-and-ban job.

That's not to say a rapprochement is impossible (though it probably is) - but it's not going to occur just because a fellow WR member writes a really good summary of the related events, nice though that might be. IMO there's no way you could call it a "series of unfortunate misunderstandings"... If anything, such a summary would just reinforce his current thinking, I suspect.

[Jon Awbrey]

So it's true —

Too many ironies in the fire
Really doth quench the ire.

Do we change your name to WordSquib now?

Ja Ja

Could Wordbomb's experience ever happen with Awbrey?








Naaaaah………

I'd have to change my name to Jonny Decachet — that just wouldn't be me.

Jon

[Noroton]

Naaaaah....

It's a completely different situation.

I'm only talking about rapproachment (or however you spell it), not whatever it was that happened (I don't know anything about it), and I'm not judging. Joking, mostly.

[Son of a Yeti]

We've forgiven each other and the issue is now, officially, put to rest.

This is a nice thing to do. And praiseworthy.

I do hope therefore that it is sincere on both sides. To forgive is one thing but to forgot is another. Let's watch SV when (if?) she regains her bits.

[Peter Damian]

Naaaaah....

It's a completely different situation. Awbrey contributed lots of material to Wikipedia, in a highly complex and advanced topic area (actually more than one, as I recall). Since hardly anyone else understood it, it was labeled "Original Research" and the related articles messed with, pretty badly. Once the inner circle (or ASOTAC, as he used to call it) decided they were tired of being criticized by him for their various ethical inadequacies, etc., most notably his objection to the use of the term "wikilawyering," the rest was just the usual railroad-and-ban job.

That's not to say a rapprochement is impossible (though it probably is) - but it's not going to occur just because a fellow WR member writes a really good summary of the related events, nice though that might be. IMO there's no way you could call it a "series of unfortunate misunderstandings"... If anything, such a summary would just reinforce his current thinking, I suspect.

The fact is that much of Awbrey's work was original research, some of it pretty poor.

[Son of a Yeti]

The fact is that much of Awbrey's work was original research, some of it pretty poor.

I'll use my #300 posting to say that he was not the only editor to do so.

[Mackan]

The fact is that much of Awbrey's work was original research, some of it pretty poor.

I'll use my #300 posting to say that he was not the only editor to do so.

I think WP:NOR used to be more receptive to "original research," so long as it didn't promote a position held by the writer, or something like that. Now it seems to prohibit original arguments and ideas, but only to prohibit "analysis or synthesis" that "serves to advance a position." So I guess now only non-idea-related analysis or synthesis that doesn't serve to advance a position is still ok.

This post has been edited by Mackan: Sat 18th April 2009, 9:04am

[dtobias]

I don't edit the philosophy-related articles Awbrey did, so I don't have any opinion on the quality of his mainspace edits. I did, however run into him a few times elsewhere and was not favorably impressed. His battle to abolish the term "wikilawyering" because he claimed it was defamatory to lawyers seemed really silly to me, and it seemed like he was ironically wikilawyering about it. He then started posting a really pompous, full-of-himself series of messages on wikien-l entitled "Exit Interview" about why he was leaving Wikipedia (this may have been before he was actually banned, when he was claiming he was going away of his own free will), which prompted some list members to refer to the Gilbert & Sullivan scene where a group of characters makes a big deal about how they're leaving (Ta ra, ta ra!) but never quite gets around to actually going away.

Since he's been banned, he keeps making a big deal here about how stupid everybody else is for contributing free labor to the Wikipedia project... but then he hypocritically goes back into it with a series of sockpuppet accounts to resume editing about his pet obsessions. Do what he says, not what he does, huh?

[Jon Awbrey]

Naaaaah……

It's a completely different situation. Awbrey contributed lots of material to Wikipedia, in a highly complex and advanced topic area (actually more than one, as I recall). Since hardly anyone else understood it, it was labeled "Original Research" and the related articles messed with, pretty badly. Once the inner circle (or ASOTAC, as he used to call it) decided they were tired of being criticized by him for their various ethical inadequacies, etc., most notably his objection to the use of the term "wikilawyering", the rest was just the usual railroad-and-ban job.

That's not to say a rapprochement is impossible (though it probably is) — but it's not going to occur just because a fellow WR member writes a really good summary of the related events, nice though that might be. IMO there's no way you could call it a "series of unfortunate misunderstandings"… If anything, such a summary would just reinforce his current thinking, I suspect.

The fact is that much of Awbrey's work was original research, some of it pretty poor.

I don't edit the philosophy-related articles Awbrey did, so I don't have any opinion on the quality of his mainspace edits. I did, however run into him a few times elsewhere and was not favorably impressed. His battle to abolish the term "wikilawyering" because he claimed it was defamatory to lawyers seemed really silly to me, and it seemed like he was ironically wikilawyering about it. He then started posting a really pompous, full-of-himself series of messages on wikien-l entitled "Exit Interview" about why he was leaving Wikipedia (this may have been before he was actually banned, when he was claiming he was going away of his own free will), which prompted some list members to refer to the Gilbert & Sullivan scene where a group of characters makes a big deal about how they're leaving (Ta ra, ta ra!) but never quite gets around to actually going away.

Since he's been banned, he keeps making a big deal here about how stupid everybody else is for contributing free labor to the Wikipedia project … but then he hypocritically goes back into it with a series of sockpuppet accounts to resume editing about his pet obsessions. Do what he says, not what he does, huh?

Good Grief !!! — It's Saturday, and waaaay too nice a day outside …

Most of the histories are still there — get 'em while they're hot !!! — anyone who wants to know the truth can still do so, for a while anyway. The rest of you e-holes are a gang of post-historical secondary revisionists who buy and sell Wikipediot Mistology like it was going out of style — let's pray it is — you are all soooo full o' beans that it's not even worth lampooning anymore and you don't deserve the respect that is due honest scholars.

Sincerely yours,

Jon Awbrey

[dtobias]

get 'em while they're hot !!!

When I was a kid back in the '70s, I sometimes published newsletters using an archaic form of printing known as a "ditto machine", which had the characteristic that freshly-printed papers were cool to the touch due to the alcohol-based ditto fluid being in the process of evaporating. I would thus sometimes refer to my latest issue as "Cold off the press!"

(A rather irrelevant tangent, at that.)

[Moulton]

Perhaps we can have yet another tongue-in-cheek faux push poll to determine whether Awbrey's crappy original research is more worthless than my semi-original song parodies about this unforgivably crappy comic opera.

[Jon Awbrey]

get 'em while they're hot !!!

When I was a kid back in the '70s, I sometimes published newsletters using an archaic form of printing known as a "ditto machine", which had the characteristic that freshly-printed papers were cool to the touch due to the alcohol-based ditto fluid being in the process of evaporating. I would thus sometimes refer to my latest issue as "Cold off the press!"

(A rather irrelevant tangent, at that.)

Speaking of post-historical secondary revisionist fax, there is at least one Ditto Machine still in operation today.

Ja Ja