What is Cirt's Deal?, Did a Google Search for Cirt and Wikipedia and was shocked Options

[rockyBarton]

I have had a few encounters with an admin named Cirt who struck me as really territorial about certain articles. Curious, I did a Google search "Cirt wikipedia" and came up with several threads on this board. After having read them and I am shocked at the history of this editor and left wondering how someone like this can be an adminstrator.

Cirt edits more than 18 hours a day and 7 days a week to boot. How can anyone do that?

Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their anti-cult agenda, has anyone ever been suspicious that they are paid, or that the account is used by more than one person?

Doesn't Wikipedia have rules against this kind of thing?

This post has been edited by rockyBarton:

[Somey]

Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their anti-cult agenda, has anyone ever been suspicious that they are paid, or that the account is used by more than one person?

It looks like you've been trying to add things to the List of new religious movements (T-H-L-K-D), but Mr. Cirt (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been resisting these due to his apparent belief that groups he considers to be cults should not be treated as "religious movements"?

Presumably Mr. Cirt's bad-faith assumption is that you're trying to promote one such group in particular, and adding numerous groups to the list in order to cover for it... That actually does work sometimes, but if that is indeed what you're doing, it's usually best to make all your additions in one edit, with carefully-checked formatting and citations (i.e., no mistakes) - it reduces the likelihood of immediate reversion.

[rockyBarton]

Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their anti-cult agenda, has anyone ever been suspicious that they are paid, or that the account is used by more than one person?

It looks like you've been trying to add things to the List of new religious movements (T-H-L-K-D), but Mr. Cirt (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been resisting these due to his apparent belief that groups he considers to be cults should not be treated as "religious movements"?

Presumably Mr. Cirt's bad-faith assumption is that you're trying to promote one such group in particular, and adding numerous groups to the list in order to cover for it... That actually does work sometimes, but if that is indeed what you're doing, it's usually best to make all your additions in one edit, with carefully-checked formatting and citations (i.e., no mistakes) - it reduces the likelihood of immediate reversion.

I don't have a horse in that race. I was at first facinated with the wierdness of some of the groups then I became facinated with the Witchhunt mentality of the people who are against the groups. Now I am shocked at what Cirt is able to get away with.

[Somey]

I don't have a horse in that race. I was at first facinated with the wierdness of some of the groups then I became facinated with the Witchhunt mentality of the people who are against the groups.

Well, bear in mind that the standard Wikipedian reaction to that will be "that's what they all say," and that Cirt might well be doing the same thing himself - either promoting a favored group or targeting an unfavored one, by lumping it in with others that are in some way similar. Someone who does this himself/herself is much more likely to notice and suspect others of doing the same thing, often without even realizing it, and often non-justifiably.

The Corbin Fisher (T-H-L-K-D) article is more concerning, but it was posted this month (Dec. 2009), whereas he was made an admin well over a year ago (mid-September 2008). It's possible that he was approached by (or started working for) Corbin Fisher recently, but otherwise we'd probably have to assume that he would have created the article a long time ago if he were a vested employee or principal. Either way, it's dicey - that appears to be the only new gay-porn-related article he's created, and if you get past the gay-porn aspect, you could make a similar CoI claim about his Everything Tastes Better with Bacon (T-H-L-K-D) article, for example - it's basically an advertisement. But obviously, while you can certainly object to the promotion of gay porn on moral grounds, you can't deny the basic fact that everything does, indeed, taste better with bacon.

[Milton Roe]

I don't have a horse in that race. I was at first facinated with the wierdness of some of the groups then I became facinated with the Witchhunt mentality of the people who are against the groups.

Well, bear in mind that the standard Wikipedian reaction to that will be "that's what they all say," and that Cirt might well be doing the same thing himself - either promoting a favored group or targeting an unfavored one, by lumping it in with others that are in some way similar. Someone who does this himself/herself is much more likely to notice and suspect others of doing the same thing, often without even realizing it, and often non-justifiably.

The Corbin Fisher (T-H-L-K-D) article is more concerning, but it was posted this month (Dec. 2009), whereas he was made an admin well over a year ago (mid-September 2008). It's possible that he was approached by (or started working for) Corbin Fisher recently, but otherwise we'd probably have to assume that he would have created the article a long time ago if he were a vested employee or principal. Either way, it's dicey - that appears to be the only new gay-porn-related article he's created, and if you get past the gay-porn aspect, you could make a similar CoI claim about his Everything Tastes Better with Bacon (T-H-L-K-D) article, for example - it's basically an advertisement. But obviously, while you can certainly object to the promotion of gay porn on moral grounds, you can't deny the basic fact that everything does, indeed, taste better with bacon.

Agree about the bacon. If somebody creates a gay porn article that pretty much suggests they are gay, no? Same with somebody who creates the article on George ("Sulu") Takai's autobiography, which is sort of about his coming out of the Jeffries Tube, if you will. There's also a lot of correlation with Cirt's interest in Tom Cruise and his being in the closet (he's edited that South Park "Stuck in the Closet" episode). All of which ties in with Project Chanology, hatred of cults in general and Scientology in particular. Less COI than I thought, but a big interest in cults, gayness, being in the closet, films, and razzberry bad films. Also paranoia of biowarfare.

So we know something about Cirt's personality, but this really tells us little about who he is. "Smee" is of course Capt. Hook's lovable pirate mate in Peter Pan, which again is a perfect identifier for the guy Cirt apparently is. A Peter Pan lovable pirate-- does it get gayer?

If Curt has had much experience with being gay and closeted, handwashing and fear of germs, with cults and organized religion, we can expect him to have covered his tracks as well as anybody, since he's had lots of practice.

As for his being in the pay of somebody, I'm not seeing it that clearly. The books Twisted Scriptures and the one on the Razzberrry Awards are in his interest area, as is anything related to bioterrorism (which again ties into cults like the Rajneeshees, and also with the biowarfare theme in Battlefield Earth, back to an obscession with Tom Cruise, and so on and so on).

I would bet money this guy is not Werner Erhard. That idea is laughable.

[A Horse With No Name]

If somebody creates a gay porn article that pretty much suggests they are gay, no?

If the article is along the lines of a Shankbone-Benji "yum yum" droolfest, yes. But the Corbin Fisher article is written as a business piece, not the Wiki equivalent of a wet dream. Why mention the health care and 401(k) aspects of the Fisher operation? No one who is interested in hot guys would even think of throwing that into a profile of a beefcake factory.

We may find it hard to fathom, but many people not associated with our funhouse actually takes Wikipedia seriously -- to the point of viewing articles on a person, company or topic to be a validation that it is, indeed, notable. The Fisher piece is conceived as a PR work, not a celebration of boy-meets-boy.

So we know something about Cirt's personality, but this really tells us little about who he is. "Smee" is of course Capt. Hook's lovable pirate mate in Peter Pan, which again is a perfect identifier for the guy Cirt apparently is. A Peter Pan lovable pirate-- does it get gayer?

There is nothing gay about Smee or the pirates in "Peter Pan" -- don't confuse the Disney cartoon or the Mary Martin show with the original source. Smee is an old man character -- most gay men would not want to be associated with the notion of being a senior.

As for his being in the pay of somebody, I'm not seeing it that clearly. The books Twisted Scriptures and the one on the Razzberrry Awards are in his interest area, as is anything related to bioterrorism (which again ties into cults like the Rajneeshees, and also with the biowarfare theme in Battlefield Earth, back to an obscession with Tom Cruise, and so on and so on).

Some of Cirt's articles are, obviously, based on his own personal interests and don't fit into the pattern. That is to be expected from someone who appears to live and breathe Wikipedia.

But, at the same time, some articles just don't make sense at all -- the California state senate candidate, the Portland theater group, the obscure books, etc.

I would bet money this guy is not Werner Erhard. That idea is laughable.

I disagree. I think that theory would solve at least 75% of the puzzle -- it is the other 25% (the obvious paid article creation) that remains hazy.

It's even possible that some of your criticism is valid, but when you say blatantly stupid things like this, it will tend to make people not listen to you.

How much do you weigh? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)


This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Somey]

I would bet money this guy is not Werner Erhard. That idea is laughable.

I disagree. I think that theory would solve at least 75% of the puzzle -- it is the other 25% (the obvious paid article creation) that remains hazy.

That he's actually Werner Erhard himself? That's ridiculous - even if most of his est-related edits weren't anti-Erhard, the last thing that guy would be doing these days is editing Wikipedia articles about other cults. Anyway, there are lots and lots and lots of people who have it in for cults and cult leaders in general.

Anyway, there's a legitimate argument to be made that this guy might be the target of real-world retaliation by come of these cult people if he's identified, so if anyone should happen to find out who he is, please, don't post it publicly - even if he is running an edit-for-pay service. I realize this might further suggest he's using the anti-cult activity to deflect attention from the possibility that he's editing for pay, but even if he is, some of these cults are dangerous. Some even more dangerous than the Wikipedia cult, at least to individuals who cross them.

[Trick cyclist]

Anyway, there's a legitimate argument to be made that this guy might be the target of real-world retaliation by come of these cult people if he's identified, so if anyone should happen to find out who he is, please, don't post it publicly.

I quite agree that it's wrong to post people's real names publicly here if they haven't disclosed them. Of course, the WMF must know who he is because he's a checkuser on Wikinews. Also, something I missed before, Wikinews for some reason has its own ArbCom and he's a member of that too. Does that make him a public figure by Wikilogic?

[CharlotteWebb]

the WMF must know who he is because he's a checkuser on Wikinews.

Of course it's foundation policy never to imply ownership in the event of a name; always use the indefinite article: a name, never…

Wikinews for some reason has its own ArbCom…

Please tell me you're not implying that the en.wikipedia arbcom should have more jurisdiction than it already does.

…and he's a member of that too. Does that make him a public figure by Wikilogic?

No, only by WR:LOGIC. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Trick cyclist]

the WMF must know who he is because he's a checkuser on Wikinews.

Of course it's foundation policy never to imply ownership in the event of a name; always use the indefinite article: a name, never…

I have no idea what that means. Should I have said A WMF not the WMF?

Wikinews for some reason has its own ArbCom…

Please tell me you're not implying that the en.wikipedia arbcom should have more jurisdiction than it already does.

Of course not, i rush to assure you with both hands. My point is that Wikinews is quite a small project. I can understand why say German WP would need such a body but there are many many WMF sites bigger and busier than Wikinews that seem to manage without (maybe manage better without) any sort of ArbCom.

[Lar]

the WMF must know who he is because he's a checkuser on Wikinews.

Of course it's foundation policy never to imply ownership in the event of a name; always use the indefinite article: a name, never…

I have no idea what that means. Should I have said A WMF not the WMF?

Wikinews for some reason has its own ArbCom…

Please tell me you're not implying that the en.wikipedia arbcom should have more jurisdiction than it already does.

Of course not, i rush to assure you with both hands. My point is that Wikinews is quite a small project. I can understand why say German WP would need such a body but there are many many WMF sites bigger and busier than Wikinews that seem to manage without (maybe manage better without) any sort of ArbCom.

An ArbCom, once elected with at least 25-30 folk participating, can appoint CUs and OVs. A wiki without an ArbCom has to muster 25-30 folk each time it wants to appoint new CUs or OVs.

May or may not be a factor.

[Trick cyclist]

An ArbCom, once elected with at least 25-30 folk participating, can appoint CUs and OVs. A wiki without an ArbCom has to muster 25-30 folk each time it wants to appoint new CUs or OVs.

May or may not be a factor.

That's an interesting point I didn't know. Still, it may not be that easy to get enough votes in an ArbCom poll. Looking through the archives of requests for CU on WQ I see that they made up numbers by drafting in people who rarely edited. In at least one case, they'd never edited WQ before. I suspect that you can get people to do that for a CU election more easily than for an ArbCom election.

[chrisoff]

*Cirt is quite aggressive and territorial about "his" articles. And a lot of them are quite stupid, like Bale Out and all the bacon cookbook articles like The BLT Cookbook. But he successful plays the politics of aggression. Interesting too, that he writes his articles in a day.

He is very active. See User:Cirt/DYKs and loves bacon. See Bacon: A Love Story

I say he is not paid, merely obsessed.

This post has been edited by chrisoff: