MBisanz: You're soooooooo vain! Options Rating

[A Horse With No Name]

Even by wacky Wiki standards, Oppose #1 is a lulu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req.../MBisanz#Oppose

After reading this, I can't help but envision MBisanz primping at the mirror while wondering which tight t-shirt to slip into for the day's strutting.

Oh, you malignant narcissist! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Achromatic]

My personal favorite was the "Juris Doctor, Georgetown, 2012 (Expected)".

If I saw this in a resume, and you were anything more than a term away from graduation (let alone 3 damn years), I'd laugh, and throw your resume out.

"Currently studying". Yes. "In progress". Sure.

Not "Expected".

I can see "Expected" being written/sniffed haughtily while looking down the nose.

Apparently MBisanz feels that Georgetown's JD program is unchallenging, a moot point, a fait accompli. Perhaps he could express that to his professors and see if they could do something about it?

[One]

My personal favorite was the "Juris Doctor, Georgetown, 2012 (Expected)".

If I saw this in a resume, and you were anything more than a term away from graduation (let alone 3 damn years), I'd laugh, and throw your resume out.

"Currently studying". Yes. "In progress". Sure.

Not "Expected".

I can see "Expected" being written/sniffed haughtily while looking down the nose.

Apparently MBisanz feels that Georgetown's JD program is unchallenging, a moot point, a fait accompli. Perhaps he could express that to his professors and see if they could do something about it?

This is common. Maybe not for someone who hasn't even begun law school, but for a 1L (that is, next month), this is what you put on your resume. Compared to undergrad, law school is a very stable three years, with two predictable summers where everyone tries to intern. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't do much legal hiring?

It was on my resume, and I got plenty of offers in the fat days of 2007 (that is, two years before graduation).

Incidentally, MBisanz, you don't want to go to law school now do you? I'm not confident that the economy will recover in three years, and the legal market is ugly right now.

That includes drop-outs for any reason. Most people don't actually fail; when it becomes apparent that they're going to fail they get a phone call from the dean advising them to withdraw for "personal reasons".

Law school is an incredibly competitive sport in the United States, especially at top tier schools.

Sorry Kelly, there's no top-tier law school (which Georgetown certainly is) with 30% attrition. In fact, law schools are more competitive toward the bottom. This makes sense. At lower-regarded schools, only the top students might find jobs as partner-track associates. At Northwestern or UChicago virtually everyone who starts as a 1L finishes three years later (except joint degree students). You're describing something more like John Marshall Law School (downtown Chicago), which is very competitive and has a high attrition rate.

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[Kelly Martin]

Sorry Kelly, there's no top-tier law school (which Georgetown certainly is) with 30% attrition. In fact, law schools are more competitive toward the bottom. This makes sense. In lower-regarded schools, only the top students might be find jobs as partner-track associates. At Northwestern or UChicago virtually everyone who starts as a 1L finishes three years later (except joint degree students). You're describing something more like John Marshall Law School (downtown Chicago), which is very competitive and has a high attrition rate.

Things have changed since I went to law school, I guess. We had a moderately high attrition rate at my old school despite being first-tier. I will admit that I may have confused the 1L and three year attrition rates; the memory ain't what it used to be. (Then there's the startlingly low "practice retention rate" shown by many schools: the percentage of graduates who are actively practicing law five years after graduation.) I also wonder to what degree the top tiers are self-excluding the most common cause of attrition (running out of money) through ridiculously high tuitions; professional school tuitions have soared to absurd levels in the past decade.

I keep thinking someday I should go back and finish my degree, but I dread repeating first year, which I'd probably have to do as my credits are now ten years stale and I doubt I'd get transfer credit for them. Oh well.

[One]

Things have changed since I went to law school, I guess. We had a moderately high attrition rate at my old school despite being top-tier. I will admit that I may have confused the 1L and three year attrition rates, as well.

I keep thinking someday I should go back and finish my degree, but I dread repeating first year, which I'd probably have to do as my credits are now ten years stale and I doubt I'd get transfer credit for them. Oh well.

Could be. Might have been the economy. A couple years ago it was very nearly literally true that "everyone gets jobs" from my school. That is, nearly everyone who went to top-tier school could get a job at a law firm paying the highest market salary--if they wanted to go to such a firm. Since the internet IPO boom, there had been a seemingly inexhaustible demand for graduates. In that environment, there's no reason to be competitive. Everyone at these schools were was set.

That said, I hear that the years beneath me are finding it much more difficult to get these jobs, and grades matter, while they barely mattered for my class (only for the top-of-the-top firms). I suspect that top law schools will become more competitive again. Georgetown might be especially competitive because it's enormous.

However, at this moment in time, it is still the norm for 1L applicants to display their expected date of graduation.

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[MBisanz]

Things have changed since I went to law school, I guess. We had a moderately high attrition rate at my old school despite being top-tier. I will admit that I may have confused the 1L and three year attrition rates, as well.

I keep thinking someday I should go back and finish my degree, but I dread repeating first year, which I'd probably have to do as my credits are now ten years stale and I doubt I'd get transfer credit for them. Oh well.

Could be. Might have been the economy. A couple years ago it was very nearly literally true that "everyone gets jobs" from my school. That is, nearly everyone who went to top-tier school could get a job at a law firm paying the highest market salary--if they wanted to go to such a firm. Since the internet IPO boom, there had been a seemingly inexhaustible demand for graduates. In that environment, there's no reason to be competitive. Everyone at these schools were was set.

That said, I hear that the years beneath me are finding it much more difficult to get these jobs, and grades matter, while they barely mattered for my class (only for the top-of-the-top firms). I suspect that top law schools will become more competitive again. Georgetown might be especially competitive because it's enormous.

However, at this moment in time, it is still the norm for 1L applicants to display their expected date of graduation.

Well now. This is an old thread. But, relevant as I am crossing the stage tomorrow to receive my diploma with the 95%+ of my class that has made it through these three years. Law school has been the hardest thing I've done in my life, but also the most fun. The projects I've worked on in my internships, the people I've met in my classes, and the things I've learned, have all been among the most interesting and rewarding of my life. As Luke stated, finding a job has gotten harder in law, much much harder; but after a great struggle, I have been blessed and lucky enough to receive a dream position. Anyway, figured it was good to wrap up this old thread on a nice note.

This post has been edited by MBisanz:

[A Horse With No Name]

Law school has been the hardest thing I've done in my life...

Maybe your urologist can prescribe some Viagra? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)