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> Leaks and Drama and Vanishing, Oh my!, Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
gomi
post Sat 25th June 2011, 6:54am
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 24th June 2011, 3:04pm) *
Ha ha. Ya blew it, Frank. Faaaaail.

To give the guy some credit, he actually helped get an innocent person out of prison, so while he's a dick on Wikipedia, he's done at least one good thing in real life.

Wikipedia Review, Fair and Balanced, y'all. biggrin.gif
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Kelly Martin
post Sat 25th June 2011, 3:15pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Fri 24th June 2011, 2:40pm) *

QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 24th June 2011, 1:57pm) *
There is a certain amount of irony, as "Prior to his work at Goodwin Procter, Mr. Bednarz worked as an attorney for the University of Chicago Exoneration Project, representing wrongfully convicted individuals."
Indeed, the irony of freeing the wrongfully convicted on one hand while participating in handing down wrongful convictions on the other is quite delicious.
Apparently this post annoyed Frank enough that he felt the need to be snidely rude to me on Facebook.
QUOTE
I hand out wrongful convictions, Kelly? Really?

True to your Illinois roots to trivialize decades of wrongful imprisonment by comparing this injustice with the "injustice" of being sort-of-but-not-really blocked from a website.
(I'd offer a link but fairly few of you are my Facebook friends and thus would not be able to read it. Not to mention I've deleted the post.)

I suppose it's time I reconsider whether Frank deserves to be considered one of my "friends" on Facebook. (Update: motion to reconsider granted.)

What I don't understand is why he couldn't reply here. I suppose it's because posting on my Facebook wall is visible to fairly few Wikipedians, while a posting here is visible to the world. (Update: apparently Frank's account here is blocked at his own request.)

Once again the cultishness of Wikipedia's inner core has been emphasized for me.
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Somey
post Sat 25th June 2011, 7:38pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 10:15am) *
What I don't understand is why he couldn't reply here. I suppose it's because posting on my Facebook wall is visible to fairly few Wikipedians, while a posting here is visible to the world. (Update: apparently Frank's account here is blocked at his own request.)

I think I understood Mr. Cool-Hand's rationale for asking us to suspend his account - since so few of the other Arbitration Committee members have been willing to participate here, he became the focus for a lot of nastiness that really should have been directed more at the ArbCom as a whole. And of course, now that he has a real job he'd prefer not to have his name dropped so much in connection with something as unsavory as Wikipedia... tongue.gif

Even now, I would go so far as to say that we owe Mr. Cool-Hand (and also Mr. Newyorkbrad) a certain amount of respect, if not gratitude, for helping to improve the atmosphere between WR and Wikipedia - before he came along, a lot of it (though admittedly, not all of it) was based on ludicrous exaggerations, if not outright lies and deceptions, which only made things worse. I, for one, don't think these are bad people in general. The fact that they're heavily involved in Wikipedia might make them look like bad people, at least in context, but there are degrees to almost everything in life, and ignoring that fact only leads to people getting pissed off for no reason.

Which leads me to the current issue - hopefully, one positive thing that will come out of these mailing-list leaks will be that people will realize that WR members (the sane ones, at least) aren't always lying or exaggerating about them, or if we are, at least people can get some idea of how much.
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gomi
post Sat 25th June 2011, 8:13pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 8:15am) *
What I don't understand is why he couldn't reply here. ... (Update: apparently Frank's account here is blocked at his own request.)

He does, however, lurk here (he was on this morning). He can be unblocked instantly, at his request. Bednarz asked to be blocked when he got peeved about a joke I made at his expense, which he (probably correctly) anticipated might impact his employment prospects. Somey is a much nicer guy than me, as has been thoroughly established long ago.

Frank could have PM'd you here, though. That isn't blocked.
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The Joy
post Sat 25th June 2011, 9:09pm
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QUOTE(MZMcBride @ Sat 25th June 2011, 2:37am) *

Where is The Joy? Someone needs to put this bullshit into digestible form (preferably play, though I'd also accept musical).


I was hoping someone would provide it in digestible narrative form so I could simplify it even further in a play or musical. There's so much information coming out, I can barely keep up! confused.gif bored.gif

I was thinking of an opera, but I think the game Portal 2 beat me to it. Wikipedians should stay away from Climate Control and science.



QUOTE(Turrets)

Cara bella, cara mia bella!
Mia bambina, o ciel!
Ché la stimo…
Ché la stimo.
O cara mia, addio!

La mia bambina cara,
perché non passi lontana?
Sì, lontana da Scïenza, [personified]
Cara, cara mia bambina?
Ah, mia bella!
Ah, mia cara!
Ah, mia cara!
Ah, mia bambina!
O cara, cara mia…


Dear beautiful, my beautiful darling!
My child, oh Chell!
For I hold her in esteem…
For I hold her in esteem.
Farewell to my dear!

My dear girl,
why do you not walk away?
Yes, away from Science,
My dear, my dear girl?
Ah, my beautiful!
Ah, my dear!
Ah, my dear!
Ah, my child!
Oh dear, my dear…


(Is the above correctly translated, Fieryangel? unsure.gif )
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Kelly Martin
post Sat 25th June 2011, 11:38pm
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QUOTE(gomi @ Sat 25th June 2011, 3:13pm) *

QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 8:15am) *
What I don't understand is why he couldn't reply here. ... (Update: apparently Frank's account here is blocked at his own request.)

He does, however, lurk here (he was on this morning). He can be unblocked instantly, at his request. Bednarz asked to be blocked when he got peeved about a joke I made at his expense, which he (probably correctly) anticipated might impact his employment prospects. Somey is a much nicer guy than me, as has been thoroughly established long ago.

Frank could have PM'd you here, though. That isn't blocked.
Indeed, it was the choice to respond on my Facebook wall (where it can be seen by any number of my friends) instead of in a private forum (i.e. WR PM, Facebook message, email, etc.) with such a degree of not only snark but wrongheaded snark is what irritated me. I realize that Frank's probably just mad at me for accusing him, a Revered Lawyer, of practicing injustice, something which could, I suppose, harm him professionally. But I think he should have thought of that every time he decided to continue his association with Wikipedia, and it's fairly obvious to anyone not blinded by Jimbojuice that Wikipedia's disciplinary processes are both phenomenally unfair and thoroughly ill-suited to their stated purpose. By continuing to participate in them he implicitly endorses them.

I've told him, straight up, that for as long as he remains associated with Wikipedia he will be subject to criticism for that association. I realize that the process of recovering from Wikipedia addiction is difficult. But until he admits that he has a problem, it's not going to get any better.

He tells me that he plans to quit Wikipedia "after this year". Whatever that means. He's been quitting Wikipedia since 2009, and yet he's still there. I'll believe it when I see it.
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EricBarbour
post Sun 26th June 2011, 2:10am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 4:38pm) *
I've told him, straight up, that for as long as he remains associated with Wikipedia he will be subject to criticism for that association. I realize that the process of recovering from Wikipedia addiction is difficult. But until he admits that he has a problem, it's not going to get any better.

He tells me that he plans to quit Wikipedia "after this year". Whatever that means. He's been quitting Wikipedia since 2009, and yet he's still there. I'll believe it when I see it.

Here's another question one could ask him: he's helped to get wrongfully convicted people released
from prison. Good for him. At the same time, how many thousands of hours has he spent on Wikipedia,
playing kangaroo-court with sockpuppets and trolls? And why is he doing that, instead of putting those
extra hours into getting other wrongful-conviction victims released?
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Kelly Martin
post Sun 26th June 2011, 2:32am
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 25th June 2011, 9:10pm) *
Here's another question one could ask him: he's helped to get wrongfully convicted people released
from prison. Good for him. At the same time, how many thousands of hours has he spent on Wikipedia,
playing kangaroo-court with sockpuppets and trolls? And why is he doing that, instead of putting those
extra hours into getting other wrongful-conviction victims released?
I actually made the suggestion that he take the time he currently spends on Wikipedia and apply it instead to real pro bono work (of his own choosing). He chose to respond by suggesting that his recent activity on Wikipedia is of greater value than my own on Wikipedia Review, which fairly well missed the point. He went on to bizarrely suggest that my own situation was even more ironic than his simply because I too have served on the ArbCom.

I found the conversation fairly bizarre; it reminded me very much of the perplexing, nearly incoherent, attacks that I've had Scientologists (and former Scientologists) throw at me. In any case, I believe we've reached the point of mutually agreeing that we are not (and not meant to be) friends and parting company on that note. Perhaps once he actually breaks himself of his wikihabit (something it took me about three years to do) he'll come to his senses and apologize. Until then, he'll continue to be just as much a target for my barbs as any other Wikipediot.

Make no mistake about it: Wikipedia makes you crazy. They really should change the subtitle from "The encyclopedia anyone can edit" to "Abandon hope, all ye who edit here!"
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Somey
post Sun 26th June 2011, 2:49am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 9:32pm) *
I actually made the suggestion that he take the time he currently spends on Wikipedia and apply it instead to real pro bono work (of his own choosing). He chose to respond by suggesting that his recent activity on Wikipedia is of greater value than my own on Wikipedia Review, which fairly well missed the point.

Interesting... Maybe he secretly thinks the investigations into wrongful sockpuppetry accusations are good practice for him in his new career as a wrongful-conviction overturner, but he didn't want to admit to you that he believes this because he knew you'd think it was ridiculous...?

I mean, it is ridiculous, but it's probably less ridiculous than spending all your spare time customizing your motorcycle or van, or playing bass in a grindcore band, and then claiming that's good practice for such a career path.

Either way, all this is probably to be expected, considering it involves Facebook.
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EricBarbour
post Sun 26th June 2011, 4:08am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th June 2011, 7:32pm) *
I found the conversation fairly bizarre; it reminded me very much of the perplexing, nearly incoherent, attacks that I've had Scientologists (and former Scientologists) throw at me.

I've noticed that Scientologists and anti-Scientologists are remarkably similar in general comportment.
Especially when arguing about Scientology. They both display the same mechanistic, unreasoning
antagonism. No matter what the starting argument is, it inevitably devolves into ad-hominem hatred.

It would seem that Wikipedia, somehow, has developed a similar "subculture" and a similar "general comportment". A cultic aspect, in fact, if I may be so bold.

Even the most paranoid conspiracy nuts love to use Facebook. Even though it should be one of their leading targets.....
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chrisoff
post Fri 22nd July 2011, 5:57pm
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QUOTE
I simply can't stomach condoning this.
wtf.gif

Really? There is something Risker can't stomach? Finding that hard to believe after all the sh*t she's been involved in, her blatant misrepresentations of mucho things. Her rampant favoritism. Is this gal for real?

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Cla68
post Sun 24th July 2011, 1:56am
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When I read the emails from the distance of a forum like this one, seeing me and others acting like we're dealing with really serious stuff, (WP-wise that is, apart from the real life stuff with Minor4th and her friends, which is, of course serious for them), it all really looks silly and trite.
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