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> Guido den Broeder Appeal (Dec 2010 - Feb 2010)
MaliceAforethought
post Thu 21st July 2011, 12:33am
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From: (Newyorkbrad)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:23:02 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Dear Dylan:

Thanks for notifying us of this appeal, which probably would not have seen
otherwise.

Regards,
Newyorkbrad

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Dylan wrote:

> Roadcreature would like to appeal his ban:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=403113683
>
> --Dylan620
----------

From: (Risker)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:24:26 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Just for our newer members: This is User:Guido den Broeder, who was banned
by the community, had his ban temporarily lifted by arbcom in Spring 2009,
and then was rebanned in May/June 2009. He exercised RTV in October 2009
and was renamed at that time. Relevant logs: <
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...de_review_log=1
>

Risker/Anne
----------

From: (Newyorkbrad)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:25:37 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

(list only)

Normally we would require an e-mail appeal to come from the blocked/banned
user rather than a third party, but here the blocked user posted the appeal
directly on-wiki, and this e-mail just drew our attention to the posting
onwiki. So we should go ahead and consider the appeal.

I've asked Roadcreature to post on his talkpage and e-mail us anything he
thinks we should take into account in deciding the appeal, and advised him
to allow a little more time for the appeal since it's the holidays plus the
time of the changeover.

That said, this should be considered by BASC. We still need volunteers to
serve on the subcommittee for the next couple of months.

"Meet the new BASC ... same as the old BASC."

Newyorkbrad
----------

From: (Elen of the Roads)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:06:41 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Hmmm. RTV means that you go away and don't edit wikipedia any more, and
someone will delete your userpages and blank your talkpage. CLEANSTART
means that you get to start over with a new name unconnected to your
previous account, but you can't do that while you are still the subject of
active sanctions. So I suppose the first question is why did anyone rename
the account?

Elen/Helen

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Risker wrote:

> Just for our newer members: This is User:Guido den Broeder, who was banned
----------

From: (Xeno)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:46:07 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Nothing about it in the wikien-bureaucrats archives for Sept/Oct 2009. I'd
guess the request was emailed directly to Rdsmith4.

-x

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Elen of the Roads wrote:

> Hmmm. RTV means that you go away and don't edit wikipedia any more, and
----------
Malice's note: Yes the AC really did ignore this for a month until...

From: (Marc A. Pelletier)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:01:39 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

On 27/12/2010 8:25 PM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
> (list only)
>
> That said, this should be considered by BASC. We still need
> volunteers to serve on the subcommittee for the next couple of months.
>

This appears to have fallen between cracks.

For the record, I'm not opposed to an unban by now. He does seem to
have mellowed quite a bit.

-- Coren / Marc
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:27:26 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

I've listed the page at Banned user appeals.

Phil
----------

From: (John Vandenberg)
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:27:53 +1100
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 27/12/2010 8:25 PM, Newyorkbrad wrote:
>
> (list only)
> That said, this should be considered by BASC.? We still need volunteers to
> serve on the subcommittee for the next couple of months.
>
> This appears to have fallen between cracks.
>
> For the record, I'm not opposed to an unban by now.? He does seem to have
> mellowed quite a bit.

I dont agree. His appeal reads to me as
'Rlevse banned me and he is gone now, so unban me.'

Rlevse's block was
'site ban reimposed by arbcom, blocking email use due to his usage
of pushing his pov via email'

He has been disruptive on the Dutch chapter wiki, which IMO is worse
than being disruptive on any project, because it is a real
organisation which is responsible and escalations are more likely to
cause real world dispute resolution.

http://nl.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=...ido_den_Broeder

He has also had problems on meta.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?titl...ido+den+Broeder

And is now supporting Ottava Rima on meta.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta...ido_den_Broeder

He is starting to get involved in Wikiversity, and to my surprise he
has been trying to quell drama there.

--
John Vandenberg
----------

From: (philknight at mail.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:09:14 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Bumping this.

Could BASC members and anyone else interested give their opinions at:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/arbc...ebruary_2011.29

Phil
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:26:22 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Bumping this again.

Thanks to Richard for giving his opinion.

Could Frank and anyone else interested give their opinions at:


https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/arbc...ebruary_2011.29

Phil
----------

From: chasemewiki (Richard Symonds)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:57:50 +0000
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

On 14/02/2011 16:26, philknight at mail.com wrote:
> Bumping this again.
>
> Thanks to Richard for giving his opinion.
>
> Could Frank and anyone else interested give their opinions at:

You folks all need to offer opinions ASAP before I trap you inside the 5
foot wide Wikimedia globe I've just been given custody of...
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:00:56 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

You folks all need to offer opinions ASAP before I trap you inside the 5 foot wide Wikimedia globe I've just been given custody of...

Good technique.

Phil
----------

From: (David Fuchs)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:14:51 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

I don't have much knowledge of this character first-hand or otherwise, but
poking about I have to concur with John's comments. I do not know from what
heights he has "mellowed", but his actions on other projects suggest he more
interested in stirring up the pot than contributing effectively.

Please, anything but the globe!

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 6:00 PM, <philknight at mail.com> wrote:

>
> You folks all need to offer opinions ASAP before I trap you inside the 5
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:30:59 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Is this globe called Rover by any chance?

Anyhow, John, David, Richard and I are opposed to an unblock, and nobody seems to be supporting an unblock, although I appreciate there have been a few no objections.

In this context, I suggest that we go ahead and decline, and suggest he re-applies in 6 months' time, with a comment to the effect that if he has 6 months trouble free editing on another project, that would count in his favour.

Phil
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:40:42 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

I've notified Roadcreature that his appeal has been declined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Roa...esult_of_appeal

Phil
----------

From: (User: Franamax)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:50:13 -0800
Subject: [arbcom-l] Guido den Broeder / Roadcreature inserting a potential
spy link

Greetings all, congrats to many, sympathy to those who've been doing your
work for more than a year that must seem endless. smile.gif

Banned editor Roadcreature made a somewhat bogus attempt to claim eons of
trouble-free editing very recently and I happened to notice that the link he
provided was to wikisage.org, which moniker I happened to remember and sure
enough: http://legacy.zoneedit.com/whois.html?zone=wikisage.org

I removed the link as potentially dangerous and I plan to enforce that,
unless I'm convinced differently. It reminds me of the "naked shorting"
affair, I think that's where I first learned of the technique of subtle
acquisition of server logs, though I forget who the actual bad guy was in
that story.

I'm pointing this out, first because I have no problem getting people all
scared up about what they click on, especially people who may be at work
inside a trusted network environment; and second because beyond the problems
with the CFS topic, Guido's ban was heavily influenced by his "experiment
with Wikipedia, the social experiment" and I'm not keen to tolerate even the
possibility of further experimentation. And yes, I said much the same thing
when I proposed he be banned in the first place, so I'm not a totlly
disinterested observer in this.

Regards,
Franamax
----------

From: (Risker)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:14:56 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Note for the file: Per investigation by Franamax (see email of 20 February
2011 to Arbcom-L from him) - Roadcreature is very likely to be banned editor
Guido den Broeder. Do not unblock.

Risker/Anne
Malice's Note: Que? May I have some of the drugs you're on Risker? You told everyone two months ago (see Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:24:26 -0500) that this was Guido.
----------

From: (Risker)
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:17:23 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Guido den Broeder / Roadcreature inserting a
potential spy link

Thanks for your message, Franamax, and for your observation of his link.
We've made note of this.

Best,

Risker

On 20 February 2011 18:50, User: Franamax wrote:

> Greetings all, congrats to many, sympathy to those who've been doing your
----------

From: (John Vandenberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:29:20 +1100
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Risker wrote:
> Note for the file:? Per investigation by Franamax (see email of 20 February
> 2011 to Arbcom-L from him) - Roadcreature is very likely to be banned editor
> Guido den Broeder.? Do not unblock.

Didnt we already know this?

Wikisage does contain a lot of CFS material that he couldnt get on
Wikipedia, but it also contains a lot of other content, and some of
the users are likely to be not GdB.

http://en.wikisage.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers
http://en.wikisage.org/wiki/Special:AllPages
http://nl.wikisage.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers
http://nl.wikisage.org/wiki/Special:AllPages

wikisage cant be used as evidence of collaborative editing for the
purpose of an unban, but I dont think it can be used against him,
except wrt CFS.

--
John Vandenebrg
----------

From: (John Vandenberg)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 15:42:09 +1100
Subject: [arbcom-l] Guido den Broeder / Roadcreature inserting a
potential spy link

I think Franamax is concerned that GdB is linking to his own wiki in
order to capture peoples IPs?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:50 AM, User: Franamax wrote:
> Greetings all, congrats to many, sympathy to those who've been
----------

From: (philknight)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:48:28 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Anne,

If you look at the user page history, the first item is:

16:31, 13 October 2009 Rdsmith4 (talk | contribs | block) m (422 bytes) (moved User:Guido den Broeder to User:Roadcreature: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Guido den Broeder" to "Roadcreature") (rollback | sum | undo)

This is, of course, explained at:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/arbc...er:Roadcreature

Phil
----------

From: (Risker)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 09:57:38 -0500
Subject: [arbcom-l] Roadcreature ban appeal

Indeed....in fact, I note my first post in this thread, back on 27 December
2010, was to point out to new arbitrators that this was Guido. Then I
promptly put this thread out of my mind...until Franamax's message. As
Emily Litella would say, "Never mind."

Risker/Anne
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Ottava
post Thu 21st July 2011, 1:09am
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Based on how many of the leaks have mentioned me, I'm starting to think that Martin's Law also applies to ArbCom-l.
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Abd
post Thu 21st July 2011, 1:30am
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Fascinating to see this sequence. I'm familiar with the Guido activity on meta and Wikiversity.

Guido sure did know how to blow off his own foot. He made wikilawyered comments like this on meta, as well. He's basing his unban appeal -- why didn't he send this to ArbComm himself? -- on the identity of the Arb who had mostly just been the messenger, this wasn't Rlevse's personal decision, and even if it was, making issues personal got him into trouble on meta, also.

He's like Ottava Rima: it's about personal conflict. His meta editing recently has been entirely about payback for Abigor ... On Wikiversity, he claimed to be against blocking, but when Abigor was down, on meta, there he was kicking him.

He sure did turn off Cool Hand Luke!

I have to assume that he wanted what he got.

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 20th July 2011, 9:09pm) *
Based on how many of the leaks have mentioned me, I'm starting to think that Martin's Law also applies to ArbCom-l.
Well, you are trying for this now, and I suppose I helped. But ArbComm didn't make the issue be you, the mention of you there was neutral and an aside.
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Guido den Broeder
post Thu 21st July 2011, 8:50am
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Abd is on his usual mystification war path, I'm not going to comment on such idiocies. The details of Rlevse's involvement can be found in the other thread.


Meanwhile, this is a classic by John Vandenberg (who then goes on to misspell his own name):

QUOTE
some of the users are likely to be not GdB


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif laugh.gif
nl.Wikisage has 106 users and 13.561 articles. It is larger and more active than many WMF projects.

Quite a few of our users were/are continuously harassed and blocked on Wikipedia. Yet they all seem to manage just fine on Wikisage. We have zero incidents, anyone can do the math.

Obviously, linking to Wikisage is indeed hazardous to Wikipedia. Each time it happens, users leave WP and join us.

This post has been edited by Guido den Broeder: Thu 21st July 2011, 8:56am
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