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> 2012 arbcom-l leaks
Michaeldsuarez
post Mon 26th November 2012, 12:33pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=523805208:

QUOTE

The Arbitration Committee has recently been made aware that information posted to its arbcom-l mailing list was inappropriately shared outside of the Committee this month. The disclosures involved posts made to the mailing list by arbitrator [[User:Jclemens|Jclemens]] on November 6 and 7 (UTC), and pertained to some of his positions in the coming Arbitration Committee election. These posts were themselves considered by several arbitrators to be inappropriate and contentious, with some viewing them as attempts to intimidate sitting arbitrators from seeking re-election. The unauthorized disclosures were reported to the Committee separately by two non-arbitrator candidates in the current Arbitration Committee elections, and our understanding is that other candidates and other editors have also received correspondence repeating some or all of the information.

Arbitrator [[User:Elen of the Roads|Elen of the Roads]] has confirmed that she shared information, including direct quotes from the mailing list, with two non-arbitrators within 24 hours of Jclemens' original posts. This information was subsequently shared with other parties, including at least some of the current candidates. The Committee was made aware of this on November 13. On polling the arbitrators, Elen of the Roads disclosed that she had released a portion of one email to non-arbitrators, and denied sharing any further emails. She subsequently clarified on 25 November that she had released information from two separate emails, including the full text of one.

In addition, an email written by Jclemens was copied and sent to at least some current candidates on November 19 from a Gmail account. There were certain modifications made to the email that do not match the original or the information shared by Elen of the Roads. All arbitrators have been polled, and all have denied sharing that post with anyone outside of the Committee.


Discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...s_from_arbcom-l
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Ottava
post Mon 26th November 2012, 4:12pm
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I don't see what the big deal is. Arbitrators have historically sent emails to parties that are being talked about behind their back. A normal person doesn't like the pettiness of such behavior. You can see how petty some Arbitrators can be in the official ArbCom leaks, and I know that 3 Arbs reported some of the things said about me to me (not necessarily forward emails, but did say things that matched what I later read).


By the way, the talk is dominated with a lot of Arbitrator on Arbitrator violence. People have been banned for less catty comments between the Arbitrators... by the ArbCom.

This post has been edited by Ottava: Mon 26th November 2012, 4:19pm
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Michaeldsuarez
post Mon 26th November 2012, 7:02pm
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These might help readers understand the situation from Elen's point of view:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=523147793 (Elen was apparently referring to the offensive that Jclemens was planning in this post)

QUOTE
I'll be honest, I had been very much in two minds about running anyway - I have been very brassed off by certain events. Then, it looks like "civility woo-woo" is going to form a key issue for this election, and while I have no concern about anyone asking my position (see [[User:Elen of the Roads/On editing in a collaborative project]] where I've been working up thoughts I initially expressed at my RfA), I have a real concern about how the debate might be conducted. It is (in my opinion, I'm sure all politicians everywhere would disagree) low politics to pick on individuals to highlight the issues of the day, creating victims or bogeymen usually without the consent of the individuals concerned. Certain parties have indicated that they intend to ask ''why did you not sanction [[User:this user]] for this statement or that phrase'' relating to certain contentious discussions on sanctions from the recent past. This has the potential to turn into a rerun of the original request to sanction, which is simply not fair to any third party being picked on for the next [[War of Jennifer's Ear]] when he never wanted to be [[Joe the Plumber]] in the first place.

I appreciate that this is a bit of a convoluted statement, probably makes no sense to anyone else, and I'm probably worrying about nothing. The community by and large has good sense and would probably see through this kind of behaviour if anyone was to try it. And the other community issue - the role and structure of Arbcom itself - is an excellent topic for discussion, ranging from ''replace it with a couple of WMF staffers'' to ''triple the size and create "lower courts"''. --[[User:Elen of the Roads|Elen of the Roads]] ([[User talk:Elen of the Roads#top|talk]]) 13:20, 15 November 2012 (UTC)


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=524942118

QUOTE
Just to clarify matters - I never forwarded anyone an email from off that list. JClemens chose to discuss his election tactics on that list because he was sure it had the 'seal of the confessional' and he could intimidate candidates without them being able to say anything. I discussed JClemens electioneering tactics with a couple of people, one of them in more depth through a private chat, because I did not know what to do for the best. I was very reluctant to accede to any prompting to run again, as I did not want to be part of a circus using another editor as a stick to beat people with. My concern with JClemens approach has been publically posted on my talkpage for a week - if I thought there was any particular reason for people to see the actual words, I'd have posted them too, but as my concern was the effect on the third party caught up in this, I didn't see any relevance. I certainly didn't email Coren anonymously - no idea who did that. [[User:Elen of the Roads|Elen of the Roads]] ([[User talk:Elen of the Roads|talk]]) 12:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=524943328

QUOTE
No. It's the problem with the list. Some Arbs regard anything posted to it (bad jokes, laundry lists) as under the seal of the confessional, which automatically prevents any mention of them elsewhere. You'll notice also that the policy says that if an Arbitrator SENDS you anything with their arb hat on, you are not permitted to disclose what it says. I have never agreed with those two positions, but this wasn't a deliberate attempt to undermine them, just a need to talk something through with someone. [[User:Elen of the Roads|Elen of the Roads]] ([[User talk:Elen of the Roads|talk]]) 12:57, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
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Ottava
post Mon 26th November 2012, 8:21pm
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QUOTE
No. It's the problem with the list. Some Arbs regard anything posted to it (bad jokes, laundry lists) as under the seal of the confessional, which automatically prevents any mention of them elsewhere. You'll notice also that the policy says that if an Arbitrator SENDS you anything with their arb hat on, you are not permitted to disclose what it says. I have never agreed with those two positions, but this wasn't a deliberate attempt to undermine them, just a need to talk something through with someone. [[User:Elen of the Roads|Elen of the Roads]] ([[User talk:Elen of the Roads|talk]]) 12:57, 26 November 2012 (UTC)




Exactly the problem. ArbCom-l was never meant to be for discussion that should be on-wiki. It was only meant to discuss privacy issues, which are outing type issues. Your personal feelings about other users is not a privacy issue. ArbCom has been violating community standards for a long time and hypocritically so. Elen did the right thing, and it is disturbing that anyone would try to condemn her.

This post has been edited by Ottava: Mon 26th November 2012, 9:54pm
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Michaeldsuarez
post Mon 26th November 2012, 9:18pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...en_of_the_Roads:

QUOTE
In light of the situation outlined at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=524907360&oldid=523805208 the Committee Noticeboard] this morning, and pursuant to [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Scope and responsibilities|item 5, Arbitration Policy, "Scope and responsibilities"]], the checkuser and oversight flags are removed from {{admin|Elen of the Roads}}. In addition, she is unsubscribed from all arbitration mailing lists, functionaries-en, checkuser-l, and oversight-l, and her access rights to the Arbwiki and Checkuser wiki are revoked. These actions will remain in effect until 1 January 2013. If she is re-elected in the coming elections, access will be restored to her when the newly elected arbitrators are seated. If she is not, the removals will be permanent, and she may only regain the checkuser and oversight flags through the usual processes for gaining such access.


This motion is currently being voted on.

This post has been edited by Michaeldsuarez: Mon 26th November 2012, 9:21pm
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Ottava
post Mon 26th November 2012, 9:55pm
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QUOTE(Michaeldsuarez @ Mon 26th November 2012, 4:18pm) *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...en_of_the_Roads:

QUOTE
In light of the situation outlined at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&diff=524907360&oldid=523805208 the Committee Noticeboard] this morning, and pursuant to [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy#Scope and responsibilities|item 5, Arbitration Policy, "Scope and responsibilities"]], the checkuser and oversight flags are removed from {{admin|Elen of the Roads}}. In addition, she is unsubscribed from all arbitration mailing lists, functionaries-en, checkuser-l, and oversight-l, and her access rights to the Arbwiki and Checkuser wiki are revoked. These actions will remain in effect until 1 January 2013. If she is re-elected in the coming elections, access will be restored to her when the newly elected arbitrators are seated. If she is not, the removals will be permanent, and she may only regain the checkuser and oversight flags through the usual processes for gaining such access.


This motion is currently being voted on.



I emailed ArbCom the following as a response to the motion:

QUOTE

"There is no way in good conscience I can put up with someone who is an admitted leaker continuing to have access to the place she has already leaked from. "

The ArbCom-l has been used in the past to bad mouth and attack people and spread poison. It has been revealed through the last leak that I was accused of being a worse person than an admitted pedophile from a person who has been an active presence in condemning Elen.

The ArbCom-l was not designed to serve as a secret place to badmouth people. It was for personal information. So many of the discussions have been private, including the results of my ban appeals that were denied yet never publically stated as such, which was out of process. I believe what she did was 100% right and that the list was inappropriately used to taint the image of others.

Courcelles, the only virtuous response would be to congratulate Elen for having the courage to stand up for what is right. She should have been told by ArbCom that she should have gone even further and posted up the whole discussion publically for all to see because it would have been the only right thing to do.
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Ottava
post Mon 26th November 2012, 10:01pm
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IP Sock Puppet 134.241.58.251 makes quite an appearance. A Mass. IP.

Also a Mass IP going after Elen in the same manner. There is a short list of nasty Wiki regulars who are from Mass. and would log out to attack someone who exposed corruption. I can name a few. smile.gif
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Ottava
post Mon 26th November 2012, 11:55pm
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Since people asked about what I was referring to when Arbitrators say nasty things about others, here are some more examples (beyond being said to be worse than an admitted pedophile who was POV pushing in pedophilia related topics) dealing with myself (and others responding):

1 Steve responds to the attacks on me saying: "but I'm not sure I find it appropriate or helpful for arbs to refer to parties to cases as "downright paranoid". While we're out of the community's eye, I think we should as much as possible confine the advantage we take of that fact to the information we disclose, rather than the tone we adopt."

I point that out because it is very similar to Elen's actions and very pertinent.

2. " Personally, I think there is very little good to be gained from pussyfooting around calling spades by their proper name, even if it's not diplomatic to do so. In order for this committee to work, we need to be able to say what's on our mind directly -- this is the only way we can achieve honest results.

That's not to say we don't occasionally step over the line, even here. I'm of a rather fiery temper myself, and am probably one of the few people who steps over that line when emotions run high; "

This is Coren trying to justify insulting people in ArbCom-l. Coren is up for election, mind you, and was the one who went to ArbCom about the leak.

3.] "but he does seem to be exhibiting warning signs of Ottava Syndrome"

Here I am used as a butt of a joke without any justification.

4. "What's sauce for the Ottava is sauce for the Jack; I'm 75% certain that he'll flare out within a fortnight, but let the guy have the chance to prove us wrong.
"

Used for whatever reason. Not necessarily negative, but rather odd.

5. "Ottava is to me qualitatively different to the Abds and Moultons, in that obnoxiousness isn't his defining characteristic and he is capable of working with people he disagrees with."

Randomly talking about 3 people. It is odd how many users are consistent compared in rather negative ways.

The response by CHL is "Ottava couldn't even manage that modest feat because obnoxiousness is one of his defining traits."

Fun times in the ArbCom-insult-users-l. The snark and the cattiness is rather bad. If the info was ever posted on Wiki, they would surely have been blocked for gross incivility.



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Ottava
post Tue 27th November 2012, 3:23am
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By the way, number 3 is where CoolHandLuke compared an individual who was claimed to be a pedophile and an abusive admin was "exhibiting warning signs of Ottava Syndrome."

The fact that he would even think to compare this guy to me, or to use my name in such an off hand manner is the disturbing part.


It is obvious that the ArbCom with few exceptions (you rarely see Brad ever attack people, but SirFozzie, CoolHandLuke, Risker, RogerDavies, and some others are often attacking people) are unable to abide by anything close to civility when discussing users and bring up unrelated users to bad mouth them without any due cause.

They also have very little respect for content, and they have attacked someone like myself who never cussed and did very little without any good reason. I have never said any of the vitriolic statements they have made against me, yet they judge those like myself.

Malleus was attacked in a nasty, abusive way and Elen had the guts to point it out. The Arbitrators who act like Jclemens and others I have listed should have rightfully been banned for their abusive actions yet are continued to edit. They do not produce content. They do not do anything useful to the system. They just perpetuate hate.
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Ottava
post Tue 27th November 2012, 7:05pm
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Sandy brings up an interesting point. If you are betrayed by someone you trust, does that mean that you lack judgment?

I personally think it is interesting that Elen is wrong for betraying the Committee's trust on something that wasn't supposed to be in the Committee list but the user who ratted on Elen is perfectly moral. It doesn't make that much sense to me. It just shows that some people are good at pretending to be what they aren't.

Sandy should pay attention to that, as she has trusted Rlevse and many others who have betrayed her or lied to her in the past. To say Elen made poor judgment in trusting someone who was supposed to be a prominent member of the community would equally apply to her in many cases.

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Ottava
post Wed 28th November 2012, 4:15pm
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I wanted to note edit summary hypocrisy. Fluffernutter has been someone criticizing Malleus for incivility but uses vulgarity in edit summaries. Many of the people involved are hypocrites, but it is good to point it out. If you recall, Fluffernutter was one of the people turning the #wikipedia-en room into a vulgar sex chat with Ironholds.
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