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> Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, I'm shocked, shocked to find drama on Wikipedia
GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *

Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.


As is saying "You're being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 6th May 2010, 10:48am) *


Me too. I like to live in America, okay by me in America...




Paul Simon has a much better ear than Bernstein for appropriating the music of other cultures, but not alway for commercial success.

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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 4:51pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *

Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.


As is saying "Your being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."




There is a very good reason. They kill people over it in order to try and dominate and spread fear. This is to show that they cannot intimidate us.

Christ has been covered in shit in artwork and that was glorified. This is only the mere drawing of a cartoon. Get over yourself.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 4:52pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:51am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *

Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.


As is saying "Your being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."




There is a very good reason. They kill people over it in order to try and dominate and spread fear. This is to show that they cannot intimidate us.

Christ has been covered in shit in artwork and that was glorified. This is only the mere drawing of a cartoon. Get over yourself.

Wow.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:18pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *

Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.


As is saying "You're being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."


Since the Age of Reason most religions have learned to live with the criticism that comes their way. Why do you think Muslims can not take the same criticisms that other religions are subject to? "Dicks"? It would be, in fact, more rational to call "dicks" those who become threatening, or violent, when criticized.
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A Horse With No Name
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:28pm
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While we're talking religion, does anyone have any good Zoroastrianism jokes? smile.gif
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thekohser
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:29pm
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The wild, broad-brush strokes on this thread make me more thankful that one of the largest initiatives at our church is to expand our inter-faith (Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist, primarily) outreach, education, and celebration efforts.

Are people really so dense as to think that caricatures of extreme and fundamentalist elements of religions do in fact represent the vast majority of practitioners of those religions?!

A new low, Wikipedia Review.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:34pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:29pm) *

The wild, broad-brush strokes on this thread make me more thankful that one of the largest initiatives at our church is to expand our inter-faith (Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, and Buddhist, primarily) outreach, education, and celebration efforts.

Are people really so dense as to think that caricatures of extreme and fundamentalist elements of religions do in fact represent the vast majority of practitioners of those religions?!

A new low, Wikipedia Review.


What is your point?
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:37pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:18pm) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *

Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.


As is saying "You're being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."


Since the Age of Reason most religions have learned to live with the criticism that comes their way. Why do you think Muslims can not take the same criticisms that other religions are subject to? "Dicks"? It would be, in fact, more rational to call "dicks" those who become threatening, or violent, when criticized.


You are certainly more reasonable than Ottava. But Muslims do have to deal with many, many Ottavas. I also think you over estimate the economic status of Muslims in America. There is great diversity, with a large and affluent exile Iranian community in LA and a even larger working class and recent immigrant community in East Dearborn. Guess who takes the brunt of the anti-Muslim hate?
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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:43pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:37pm) *

You are certainly more reasonable than Ottava. But Muslims do have to deal with many, many Ottavas. I also think you over estimate the economic status of Muslims in America. There is great diversity, with a large and affluent exile Iranian community in LA and a even larger working class and recent immigrant community in East Dearborn. Guess who takes the brunt of the anti-Muslim hate?


Oh yes, I am unreasonable because I said that people should draw a simple cartoon to show that they are not afraid -after- they are threatened to be killed for making the drawing.

The death threats came first. Get a clue. You are a hate mongerer and a troll. You hide behind anonymity and take contradictory points simply so you can cause as much disruption and harm as possible. If it was possible to ignore you, most people would and you would vanish.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:46pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:43pm) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:37pm) *

You are certainly more reasonable than Ottava. But Muslims do have to deal with many, many Ottavas. I also think you over estimate the economic status of Muslims in America. There is great diversity, with a large and affluent exile Iranian community in LA and a even larger working class and recent immigrant community in East Dearborn. Guess who takes the brunt of the anti-Muslim hate?


Oh yes, I am unreasonable because I said that people should draw a simple cartoon to show that they are not afraid -after- they are threatened to be killed for making the drawing.

The death threats came first. Get a clue. You are a hate mongerer and a troll. You hide behind anonymity and take contradictory points simply so you can cause as much disruption and harm as possible. If it was possible to ignore you, most people would and you would vanish.


Unfortunately for you things are written down around here and once quoted you can't change the quote.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:47pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:37pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:18pm) *
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *
Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.
As is saying "You're being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."
Since the Age of Reason most religions have learned to live with the criticism that comes their way. Why do you think Muslims can not take the same criticisms that other religions are subject to? "Dicks"? It would be, in fact, more rational to call "dicks" those who become threatening, or violent, when criticized.

You are certainly more reasonable than Ottava. But Muslims do have to deal with many, many Ottavas. I also think you over estimate the economic status of Muslims in America. There is great diversity, with a large and affluent exile Iranian community in LA and a even larger working class and recent immigrant community in East Dearborn. Guess who takes the brunt of the anti-Muslim hate?


Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 5:56pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:47pm) *
Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.

Why is this so hard? I'm not saying "you can't criticize Islam." I'm saying you're not immune from criticism yourself for such a petty and mean spirited ploy disguised as a "protest." If to many adherents of Islam an important religious tenent is not to depict their prophet and people go out of there way to mock them for this it seems to me petty and mean.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:03pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:56pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:47pm) *
Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.
Why is this so hard? I'm not saying "you can't criticize Islam." I'm saying you're not immune from criticism yourself for such a petty and mean spirited ploy disguised as a "protest." If to many adherents of Islam an important religious tenent is not to depict their prophet and people go out of there way to mock them for this it seems to me petty and mean.

Did you make this big a deal about the Holocaust Cartoon Contest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...oon_Competition

I did not hear much complaining from Muslin sources. Its the usual: if I do it to you its good, but if you do it to me its bad.
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Ottava
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:04pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:46pm) *
Unfortunately for you things are written down around here and once quoted you can't change the quote.
Exactly, and you made it sound like those being threatened with having their heads chopped off are the awful abusers of a poor minority that has no power!

You are so full of shit and everyone knows it. You are hateful. There is no possible way you honestly believe that the cartoons are awful, or that you honestly support the idiots who threatened to chop off the heads of the South Park people. You are just trolling.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:09pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 1:03pm) *
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:56pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:47pm) *
Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.
Why is this so hard? I'm not saying "you can't criticize Islam." I'm saying you're not immune from criticism yourself for such a petty and mean spirited ploy disguised as a "protest." If to many adherents of Islam an important religious tenent is not to depict their prophet and people go out of there way to mock them for this it seems to me petty and mean.

Did you make this big a deal about the Holocaust Cartoon Contest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...oon_Competition

I did not hear much complaining from Muslin sources. Its the usual: if I do it to you its good, but if you do it to me its bad.

Please don't cite Wikipedia articles to me for general background, it only debases the discussion. Of course if your point is about an article or userpage then no problem.

I have spoken out repeatedly about antisemitism on this site. I get the same "censorship" nonsense about that, too.
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Milton Roe
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:14pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 8:30am) *
I live in America. More than 99% of the users of this site and en.WP are from the the English speaking world and Europe. Muslims are a small and hard pressed minority in our society. They are easy to pick on and vilify. Almost no one will speak up if you do. I'm speaking up for my neighbors and countrymen who are Muslims.


Most Muslims in America are Indonesians. Most Arab-Americans are Catholics. The small minority of Arab-Muslims in America tend to be looked at with some suspicion by Americans these days, but since nearly all the people who've been trying to blow up Americans this last quarter of a century (from La Belle discotheque to Faisal Shahzad) have been Arabic Muslims, it's not really surprizing. I'm not really sure American can be accused of "starting it" by supporting Israel. This does not excuse killing of Americans, and especially civilian Americans. Muslims aren't good citizens of France, either, and so you can't just make anti-zionism an excuse for any bunch of Muslim emigrants acting-badly.

Defending much of Islam is a losing battle. As a religion it's even more narrowminded and unforgiving than Southern Baptistism, and that's saying a lot. And its attitude toward women is some of the worst to be found in a modern religion. Frankly, a lot of it is shit (see the Wahabits and Taliban for how bad Muslim conservatives can be), and what's left is superstition. You have to look very hard to find the diamonds in its rough (okay, it has a good attitude toward treatment of guests and strangers, and it's color-blind, at least toward Muslims). But overall, there is no reason to have any great respect for it (the religion). If its followers don't wake up and perform some major surgery on it, rather like the Roman Catholics had to do when faced with modern astronomy and the reformation, the conservative and fundamentalist version of Islam is going to be source of a great deal more suffering for many of its conservative believers. The world's patience for these people has long run out. When the Arabs' oil runs out and money stops being diverted to the most nutty branches of "Islam" they're going to be even more of a world of hurt. And deserve it.

It's not a bigotry thing-- the liberal Muslims are fine with me. It's a "recognize the asshole" thing. The conservative Muslims (of which there are very many- they are NOT a tiny minority) are not fine with me.
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Kwork
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:15pm
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 6:09pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 1:03pm) *
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:56pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 2:47pm) *
Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.
Why is this so hard? I'm not saying "you can't criticize Islam." I'm saying you're not immune from criticism yourself for such a petty and mean spirited ploy disguised as a "protest." If to many adherents of Islam an important religious tenent is not to depict their prophet and people go out of there way to mock them for this it seems to me petty and mean.
Did you make this big a deal about the Holocaust Cartoon Contest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...oon_Competition

I did not hear much complaining from Muslin sources. Its the usual: if I do it to you its good, but if you do it to me its bad.
Please don't cite Wikipedia articles to me for general background, it only debases the discussion. Of course if your point is about an article or userpage then no problem.

I have spoken out repeatedly about antisemitism on this site. I get the same "censorship" nonsense about that, too.

You did not answer my question, which makes it appear that you did not protest the Holocaust Cartoon Contest. (NB: I will site whatever sources I choose. Please do not tell me what to do.)
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Web Fred
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:19pm
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:51pm) *
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 4:23pm) *
QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 11:09am) *
Of course hate speech is forbiden, but otherwise mild humor and criticism is protected freedom of speech.
As is saying "Your being a dick to Muslims for no good reason."
There is a very good reason. They kill people over it in order to try and dominate and spread fear. This is to show that they cannot intimidate us.

Christ has been covered in shit in artwork and that was glorified. This is only the mere drawing of a cartoon. Get over yourself.

I'm sure Torquemada would be proud of you.

All organised religions are as bad as each other, some are just more imaginative than others.
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GlassBeadGame
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:23pm
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QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 1:15pm) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 6:09pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 1:03pm) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 6th May 2010, 5:56pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 6th May 2010, 12:47pm) *


Is it, then, your view that for that reason Islam can not be criticized? US law forbids hate crimes against anyone, and (as little as I like its basic idea) Everybody Draw Mohammed Day does not seem to promote hate.

Why is this so hard? I'm not saying "you can't criticize Islam." I'm saying you're not immune from criticism yourself for such a petty and mean spirited ploy disguised as a "protest." If to many adherents of Islam an important religious tenent is not to depict their prophet and people go out of there way to mock them for this it seems to me petty and mean.


Did you make this big a deal about the Holocaust Cartoon Contest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...oon_Competition

I did not hear much complaining from Muslin sources. Its the usual: if I do it to you its good, but if you do it to me its bad.

Please don't cite Wikipedia articles to me for general background, it only debases the discussion. Of course if your point is about an article or userpage then no problem.

I have spoken out repeatedly about antisemitism on this site. I get the same "censorship" nonsense about that, too.


You did not answer my question, which makes it appear that you did not protest the Holocaust Cartoon Contest. (NB: I will site whatever sources I choose. Please do not tell me what to do.)


No I don't follow every meme on the internet or idiotic antic of Ahmadinejad with a Wikipedia Article. I have no qualms in saying that it was antisemitic and wrong. I am more concerned with addressing the ills of my own society.

Cite the Wikipedia article if you want. Makes you look stupid and I won't read it so its a waste of your time.
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A Horse With No Name
post Thu 6th May 2010, 6:47pm
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 6th May 2010, 2:14pm) *
And its attitude toward women is some of the worst to be found in a modern religion.


Curious, but four predominantly Muslim countries -- Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Kyrgyzstan -- found themselves with women as heads of state.
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