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Arbcom follies, Arbcom is totally blown away by the leaker |
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chrisoff |
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How can arbcom be so totally in outer space regarding the leaker. Their answer are pathetic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_tal...ity_SpeculationAre they really as dumb and inadequate as they come across? Even the super techie ones? And these are the people deciding the fate of wikipedia and its editors? Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
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chrisoff |
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QUOTE In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.
And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.
I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material.
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InkBlot |
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:34pm) QUOTE In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.
And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.
I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material. They, like many IT professionals, fall into the trap of thinking 'security through obscurity' is...well, actually secure. It's not. The old setup was weak and horribly insecure, but they must have figured if no one could see how flimsy the setup was they wouldn't know where to poke holes in it. Giano just has to see ArbCom as villians actively plotting against him. It's the only way he can explain all the poop which has been dumped on his head over the years without admitting some of it, any of it, might just possibly have been brought on by his own self. Maybe I'm naive, but I've always lived closer to the adage: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."
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SpiderAndWeb |
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QUOTE(InkBlot @ Thu 28th July 2011, 10:39pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 4:34pm) QUOTE In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately.
And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important.
I don't buy it. There's at least one arb that acts very techie on other sites, is a checkuser and such, and they NEVER worried about email security of "personal, sensitive" info that arbs, those supposedly trustworthy beings, happily gossip about among themselves? Giano is on the right track. Tabloid material. They, like many IT professionals, fall into the trap of thinking 'security through obscurity' is...well, actually secure. It's not. The old setup was weak and horribly insecure, but they must have figured if no one could see how flimsy the setup was they wouldn't know where to poke holes in it. Giano just has to see ArbCom as villians actively plotting against him. It's the only way he can explain all the poop which has been dumped on his head over the years without admitting some of it, any of it, might just possibly have been brought on by his own self. Maybe I'm naive, but I've always lived closer to the adage: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." Frankly, certain members of ArbCom do plot against him, as can be seen in e.g. the leaked emails about the Arbcom wiki "hack," and his posting of the !! sockpuppetry evidence. This post has been edited by SpiderAndWeb:
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Sololol |
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Bell the Cat
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately. And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important. I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out.
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:12am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately. And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important. I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out. The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine. Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is.
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Casliber |
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QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. "The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots. Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)
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Sololol |
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QUOTE(Casliber @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:56am) QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. "The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots. Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Damn! Casliber will need a personalized message now. What if it were Compressed Unicorn PDF and promised a real live unicorn if you opened it?
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:44am) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine.
Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is.
I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. But it seems simpler to imagine someone with any of the numerous possible motivations (revenge/boredom/reform/Malice offered them a delicious sandwich) and sending it out. Something along the lines of what's happened three known times before and God knows how many other times. Again, it doesn't really matter since they can't stop either from happening again, just fun to speculate. I think if it were a current or farmer arb with a bad case of "FUCK YOU", they'd have a bunch of things they'd want to get out there. Things that bothered them personally. This situation with the greatest hits parade is more like someone who has a secret and is enjoying trickling it out. Now, Malice, where are my Merkey emails?
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SpiderAndWeb |
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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Ottava |
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QUOTE(SpiderAndWeb @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:57pm) QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Wow, that should have read "I'm of the believers that". Anyway, yes. I was thinking more of the third ending of Clue because that is far more sillier with all the running around and such. A Horse with No Name would probably enjoy both references as pertinent, unless he is still morning the death of the real Horse with No Name.
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SpiderAndWeb |
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 5:18pm) QUOTE(SpiderAndWeb @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:57pm) QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:16pm) I'm of the believe that they are all the leaker, and that this whole thing was started because they all wanted to make the knowledge public while still having plausible deniability. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) A Orient Express-style conspiracy? I love it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Wow, that should have read "I'm of the believers that". Anyway, yes. I was thinking more of the third ending of Clue because that is far more sillier with all the running around and such. A Horse with No Name would probably enjoy both references as pertinent, unless he is still morning the death of the real Horse with No Name. With communism hacking just a red herring, I assume. This post has been edited by SpiderAndWeb:
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chrisoff |
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 12:16pm) After all, have any of the leaks really had anything incriminating? There is no "lets find out a way to screw this person" type of conspiracy as found in the Easter European emails. Most of them are debates between different people and show very little "collusion" or anything that wasn't taking place in public.
Of course, a few people are seen as two-faced, or shown to hide how they really feel. But that isn't anything new or ground breaking.
Hummmmm Does show that Cas Liber acts as the psychiatric consultant for the group! Let's ask Cas and see what the "mechanism" is, whether the guy is really suicidal! "The thing that strikes me about RH&E is the knee-jerk "I'm too ill/I'm suicidal" response whenever challenged. What's all that about, Cas? What's the mechanism? Just deflection?" Cas: "Oh, the common theme in all his correspondence is /his/ hard work, /his/ health i.e. "I'm having a hard time and you don't care". There is not /any/ consideration of the other side at all, which is interesting. it illustrates a fairly profound lack of empathy of knowing or caring about his obligations (role of admin), or problem it puts us in (threat of suicide and letting him edit). Admittedly this gets worse when a person is stressed (even reasonable folks can lose empathy" (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Cas give us a quickie mental check on the arbs. Could there possibly be a profound lack of empathy in all this casual gossip and speculation by the arbs in these leaked emails? Draft Giano for arbcom!
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 30th July 2011, 1:24am) QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 29th July 2011, 1:18pm) Wow, that should have read "I'm of the believers that".
Are you sure about that? Really, Ottava? Really? Kind of sad what an expensive literary education gets you these days...
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Sat 30th July 2011, 12:02am) I found Casliber's comment totally unconvincing in terms of being from a qualified psychiatrist. The more I read it the less convincing it is, in fact.
I agree, but then, of course, I would, wouldn't I? CasLiber cites no psychological or psychiatric qualifications or expertise publicly, and is ostensibly interested in (to most) obscure flora, fauna, and fungi of Australia, given his most recent contributions. I don't imagine for one second that he is qualified to judge a complex individual, such as myself, or indeed anyone, and he has failed to not only to take both sides of the debate, but also to reply to emails from myself. However, that's not unusual from my attempts to seek clarification from ArbCom, either collectively or individually, which to me shows that they are intransigent and in many ways, missing the point. They've hung me out to dry, and will defend that decision at all costs. I have some sort of dialogue with Wales, who at least is treating me with some minimal courtesy, if not exactly accepting that ArbCom, and he, got it badly wrong. However, I look at WP these days and see nonsense on my watchlist, particularly BLP violations, not being managed professionally and in a timely manner. It only takes ONE person to sue in relation to ONE diff incompetently handled, for the whole "due diligence" thinking behind WP:BLP to crumble into dust. This ArbCom don't get that, and they should go, with extreme prejudice. Ends.
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Abd |
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Fri 29th July 2011, 7:02pm) What we are seeing is that arbcom are consistently what most normal people would call 'unprofessional'. I'm wondering if it's actually professionalism which these level of Wikipedians have a kind of fear or hatred of. There could even be a general contempt for it across Wikipedia. No shit, Sherlock. I do wonder why anyone would expect the arbitrators to be "professional," and I've seen the same comment made about administrators. None of them are paid. They are largely selected for popularity, not for any kind of "professional" competence. Supermajority election of administrators ensures that the community is badly represented by the administrative core, and the same is true of arbitrators. It's like clockwork.
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(Abd @ Sat 30th July 2011, 2:19am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Fri 29th July 2011, 7:02pm) What we are seeing is that arbcom are consistently what most normal people would call 'unprofessional'. I'm wondering if it's actually professionalism which these level of Wikipedians have a kind of fear or hatred of. There could even be a general contempt for it across Wikipedia. No shit, Sherlock. I do wonder why anyone would expect the arbitrators to be "professional," and I've seen the same comment made about administrators. None of them are paid. They are largely selected for popularity, not for any kind of "professional" competence. Supermajority election of administrators ensures that the community is badly represented by the administrative core, and the same is true of arbitrators. It's like clockwork. Careful, now. They are selected for popularity from amongst the largest collection of immature, maladjusted shut-ins on the face of the planet. As I wrote elsewhere, the group of the most active wikipedians make a group of rabid Star Trek fans look vanilla plain by comparison. Arbcom is unaccountable and is thus incorrigible. The stratification of rank and obsession regarding relative status makes wikipedia a classic example of the Stanford Prison Experiment writ large.
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Casliber |
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QUOTE(Sololol @ Sat 30th July 2011, 1:45am) QUOTE(Casliber @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:56am) QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. "The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots. Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Damn! Casliber will need a personalized message now. What if it were Compressed Unicorn PDF and promised a real live unicorn if you opened it? Maybe if you tried a pegasus or manticore.....
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powercorrupts |
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 2:30am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Sat 30th July 2011, 12:02am) I found Casliber's comment totally unconvincing in terms of being from a qualified psychiatrist. The more I read it the less convincing it is, in fact.
I agree, but then, of course, I would, wouldn't I? CasLiber cites no psychological or psychiatric qualifications or expertise publicly, and is ostensibly interested in (to most) obscure flora, fauna, and fungi of Australia, given his most recent contributions. I don't imagine for one second that he is qualified to judge a complex individual, such as myself, or indeed anyone, and he has failed to not only to take both sides of the debate, but also to reply to emails from myself. However, that's not unusual from my attempts to seek clarification from ArbCom, either collectively or individually, which to me shows that they are intransigent and in many ways, missing the point. They've hung me out to dry, and will defend that decision at all costs. I have some sort of dialogue with Wales, who at least is treating me with some minimal courtesy, if not exactly accepting that ArbCom, and he, got it badly wrong. However, I look at WP these days and see nonsense on my watchlist, particularly BLP violations, not being managed professionally and in a timely manner. It only takes ONE person to sue in relation to ONE diff incompetently handled, for the whole "due diligence" thinking behind WP:BLP to crumble into dust. This ArbCom don't get that, and they should go, with extreme prejudice. Ends. Don't you fucking dare even suggest my disbelief of Casliber's qualifications means that I disagree with what is clear as can be to everyone - that you are completely full of shit. You yourself have pretended to be a "psychologist" (wasn't it?) on Wikipedia when trying to build up credibility with your post-RodHull&Emu sock account, as has your partner in slime (and conversation if I remember), Malleus. Every walking abyss who pretends to be a psychiatrist/psychologist on Wikipedia should be rounded up chained into one of Poetlister's dungeons. It's nothing less than you manipulative bastards deserve. Obviously, that goes for you too Casliber.
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powercorrupts |
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QUOTE(Casliber @ Sat 30th July 2011, 6:05am) QUOTE(Sololol @ Sat 30th July 2011, 1:45am) QUOTE(Casliber @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:56am) QUOTE(gomi @ Fri 29th July 2011, 4:52pm) QUOTE(Sololol @ Thu 28th July 2011, 11:44pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 2:23am) The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. I have no idea how you'd do any of that. Maybe it's really simple. "The attached [Word document|PDF File|Link|whatever] contains incontrovertible proof that your fellow Arbitrator [X] has violated Wikipedia's trust." That'd get every one of 'em. Fuckin' post-apocalyptic warlord idiots. Well, I've seen this now so I for one won't be opening it (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Damn! Casliber will need a personalized message now. What if it were Compressed Unicorn PDF and promised a real live unicorn if you opened it? Maybe if you tried a pegasus or manticore..... Can you save us your maladjusted 'join the trolls' 24-Step Psychology in a Day horseshit. You really are cringe-making, and a total fraud.
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QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:23am) QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:12am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately. And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important. I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out. The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine. Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is. Easiest - and illegal.
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QUOTE(Heat @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:14pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:23am) QUOTE(Sololol @ Fri 29th July 2011, 6:12am) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Thu 28th July 2011, 5:14pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 28th July 2011, 8:18pm) Giano, my hero! Dear clear sighted one!
In this case Giano is pursuing what is probably the least likely explanation, and is ignoring several more plausible explanations. Security for the mailing list was just bad, and anyone who (a) understood computer security and (b) knew how the Mailman software worked would have known this. The problem is that the people who did know this (a couple of Arbs, possibly, and most of the developers) didn't bother to fix it until after the big breach. Which is pretty much human nature, unfortunately. And it is entirely plausible that the devs were warned, and they just decided that bots and widgets and new tools for fixing capitalization errors were more important. I don't think Giano is off-base in thinking it's an inside job versus hacking. It just doesn't matter. And they'd never tell even if they knew: the leaker would say they were hacked (in all honesty or just whipping out the victim card) and we know how that goes. Tune in next leak to find out. The easiest way to do this would be to send a phishing email to each and every arb. Anyone with unpatched/not using email anti-virus gets their machine rooted. Search their drives for what you want. download the entire archive from the rooted machine. Provide requested searches while letting arbcom thrash about wondering who the traitor is. Easiest - and illegal. Illegal is only a problem is the targets actually take steps to preserve forensics and report it to some authorities that would actually give a shit about the targets and their potential losses. Going after bank CEOs, kind of dangerous. Going after the kangaroo court of a volunteer encyclopedia, not so much. And, after Risker/Anne told everyone to do stupid, security theater shit to their computers, I think it unlikely that there's much to find or any interest from a security specialist who wasn't paid time and materials in looking into this situation. Add in the use gmail, access through anonymizers and the spread out geographical locations of the target demographic and I think you can safely say, "There ain't no fucking chance in hell in getting caught..." Technically naughty, but so is guessing passwords. For all intents and purposes, impossible to get caught.
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Things like this just seem to happen to these poor blokes on a regular basis, eh?
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From: (Steve Dunlop) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:59:20 -0600 Subject: [Arbcom-l] Arbcom wiki showing in google
New arbs are cautioned that the MW developers, despite their considerable skills in other areas, are very poor at keeping confidential information leak-free. This sort of thing has happened before and is likely to happen again.
Steve/UC
From: (David Gerard) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:04:31 +0000 Subject: [Arbcom-l] Arbcom wiki showing in google
2008/12/27 Steve Dunlop
> New arbs are cautioned that the MW developers, despite their > considerable skills in other areas, are very poor at keeping > confidential information leak-free. This sort of thing has happened > before and is likely to happen again.
Yes. Basically, MediaWiki isn't the place to put anything you don't want to tell the world, as that's its entire function.
There are ways to protect the entire wiki more than the usual private wiki accessible via the Internet, but they aren't implemented on our wiki farm (and they're a major PITA for all involved) - things like .htaccess files as well.
- d.
From: (Steve Dunlop) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:59:49 -0600 Subject: [Arbcom-l] Arbcom wiki showing in google
<<<Does using the secure server help, or is that only for the "sniffing passwords" bit?
Carcharoth>>>
No. What usually happens is that the developers take site maintenance actions that affect all the 100+ wikis hosted by WMF and either don't think through the implications for sensitive wikis or screw up the implementation.
We had one episode where they included a private wiki in the public backup tarball.
We had one episode where they made a private wiki visible on the tool server.
We had one MediaWiki patch that was buggy and caused information compromise, at least potentially. I can't remember where it was, but it was some new feature that worked great but forgot to check, on a private wiki, whether there was a user logged in.
And now this.
Steve/UC
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Sat 30th July 2011, 9:55am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 2:30am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Sat 30th July 2011, 12:02am) I found Casliber's comment totally unconvincing in terms of being from a qualified psychiatrist. The more I read it the less convincing it is, in fact.
I agree, but then, of course, I would, wouldn't I? CasLiber cites no psychological or psychiatric qualifications or expertise publicly, and is ostensibly interested in (to most) obscure flora, fauna, and fungi of Australia, given his most recent contributions. I don't imagine for one second that he is qualified to judge a complex individual, such as myself, or indeed anyone, and he has failed to not only to take both sides of the debate, but also to reply to emails from myself. <snip> Ends. Don't you fucking dare even suggest my disbelief of Casliber's qualifications means that I disagree with what is clear as can be to everyone - that you are completely full of shit. You yourself have pretended to be a "psychologist" (wasn't it?) on Wikipedia when trying to build up credibility with your post-RodHull&Emu sock account, as has your partner in slime (and conversation if I remember), Malleus. Every walking abyss who pretends to be a psychiatrist/psychologist on Wikipedia should be rounded up chained into one of Poetlister's dungeons. It's nothing less than you manipulative bastards deserve. Obviously, that goes for you too Casliber. Could've fooled the FAC people and the arbs too! He touts himself as a psychiatrist and touts his RL experiences as one regularly. (Eg. I had a bad day, a patient committed suicide.) Note how they solicit his "opinion"? Here is the illustrious Elen of the Roads asking for a little confirmation from Cas of her high-level psychoanalysing: (copied from leaked email) "Actually, this is the most reasonable statement I've seen in a while. It confirms that he has been using Wikipedia as a support mechanism (which we thought), and I think the 'unintended consequences' are actually to him, as he hints, while continuing to bluster about consequences to us." "If Casliber is about, I'd be interested in his take/advice on responding."
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Sat 30th July 2011, 12:15pm) Could've fooled the FAC people and the arbs too! He touts himself as a psychiatrist and touts his RL experiences as one regularly. (Eg. I had a bad day, a patient committed suicide.) Note how they solicit his "opinion"? Here is the illustrious Elen of the Roads asking for a little confirmation from Cas of her high-level psychoanalysing:
(copied from leaked email)
"Actually, this is the most reasonable statement I've seen in a while. It confirms that he has been using Wikipedia as a support mechanism (which we thought), and I think the 'unintended consequences' are actually to him, as he hints, while continuing to bluster about consequences to us."
"If Casliber is about, I'd be interested in his take/advice on responding."
So Casliber is a real shrink. In that case, it's too bad they didn't run Proofreader77 by him. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)
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QUOTE(NuclearWarfare @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:35pm) You realize that Casliber edits under a derivative of his real name, right? And has written Wikipedia-related articles for medical journals, such as JMIR? From the official Wikimedia blog: QUOTE Casimir Liber, MBBS, FRANZCP, is a psychiatrist at the Department of Psychiatry, Bankstown Health Service, Sydney, Australia, and a conjoint lecturer at the School of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia. Which you can verify by going to UNSW's website. The Internet is magic! So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest?
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:51pm) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest? Who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Otherwise, crawl back under whatever stone you came from.
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:10pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:51pm) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest? Who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Otherwise, crawl back under whatever stone you came from. Milton's not the only one. You come across as a seriously deranged fruitbat. I'd call it at about 1472 milli-Ottavas Just sayin' This post has been edited by Vigilant:
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QUOTE(Vigilant @ Sun 31st July 2011, 12:19am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:10pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:51pm) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest? Who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Otherwise, crawl back under whatever stone you came from. Milton's not the only one. You come across as a seriously deranged fruitbat. I'd call it at about 1472 milli-Ottavas Just sayin' Trite insults don't help. Not much helps right now. Maybe I'm not as well as I should be right now, and maybe I'm not getting the help I should be. So, who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Is that so difficult for someone purporting to be superior in some way? I don't t'ink so.
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powercorrupts |
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QUOTE(NuclearWarfare @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:35pm) You realize that Casliber edits under a derivative of his real name, right? And has written Wikipedia-related articles for medical journals, such as JMIR? From the official Wikimedia blog: QUOTE Casimir Liber, MBBS, FRANZCP, is a psychiatrist at the Department of Psychiatry, Bankstown Health Service, Sydney, Australia, and a conjoint lecturer at the School of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia. Which you can verify by going to UNSW's website. The Internet is magic! It's not that difficult to find him in Australia's medical registrar either. He's been registered since Christmas Eve '92. Thanks for that. I'll contact them and see what they have to say about it, as his comments strike me as being highly unprofessional. Is he someone who should be dealing with (presumably) vulnerable people? I specifically mean his real life clients, but if he's dishing out advice to an outfit like arbcom.. Looking at the net he's been paid by a pharmo to lecture on bipolar disorder, which immediately looks like a dodgy scenario to me - given the drugs they pump into people who get spuriously diagnosed with the disorder by shrinks (I've seen this happen). But Wikipedia? Maybe the old cliche about these people is true. "We believe its possibilities for use as a tool for worldwide health promotion are underestimated. We invite the medical community to join in editing Wikipedia, with the goal of providing people with free access to reliable, understandable, and up-to-date health information.... "Perhaps he made an unspeakable oath?
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 4:27pm) Trite insults don't help. Not much helps right now. Maybe I'm not as well as I should be right now, and maybe I'm not getting the help I should be. So, who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Is that so difficult for someone purporting to be superior in some way? I don't t'ink so.
Phil, you're about as hard to ignore as a dog who got hit by a car out front, who dragged itself up onto our lawn, snarling at everybody and bleeding. I don't think you came for euthanasia, did you? Perhaps you could start by stopping all those activating drugs you're taking that tend to make people nasty, from legal to illegal, and get some rest?
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sun 31st July 2011, 12:38am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 4:27pm) Trite insults don't help. Not much helps right now. Maybe I'm not as well as I should be right now, and maybe I'm not getting the help I should be. So, who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Is that so difficult for someone purporting to be superior in some way? I don't t'ink so.
Phil, you're about as hard to ignore as a dog who got hit by a car out front, who dragged itself up onto our lawn, snarling at everybody and bleeding. I don't think you came for euthanasia, did you? Perhaps you could start by stopping all those activating drugs you're taking that tend to make people nasty, from legal to illegal, and get some rest? Nevertheless, some people manage to ignore me- those with presumably something better to do with their time. However, I don't think you and I know each other IRL, so please do assume we are not on first-name terms. And it's a gross insult to assume that I'm taking any drugs whatsoever; I am not.
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:27pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Sun 31st July 2011, 12:19am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:10pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:51pm) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest? Who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Otherwise, crawl back under whatever stone you came from. Milton's not the only one. You come across as a seriously deranged fruitbat. I'd call it at about 1472 milli-Ottavas Just sayin' Trite insults don't help. Not much helps right now. Maybe I'm not as well as I should be right now, and maybe I'm not getting the help I should be. So, who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Is that so difficult for someone purporting to be superior in some way? I don't t'ink so. They're not trite and they're not insults. You are mad as a hatter. I get the heebie geebies everytime I read one of your posts. Stop posting please.
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Bell the Cat
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QUOTE(Casliber @ Sat 30th July 2011, 1:05am) Maybe if you tried a pegasus or manticore.....
You think we can just email a pegasus to Sydney?! My God, if you thought the rabbits played merry hell with the ecosystems what do you think would happen with those things?! And the more PC term is "personticore", which I'll be happy to send post-haste. P.S.: Could you mail me some Bundy? It would be for psychiatric purposes only.
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QUOTE(Vigilant @ Sun 31st July 2011, 4:44am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:27pm) QUOTE(Vigilant @ Sun 31st July 2011, 12:19am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:10pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 30th July 2011, 11:51pm) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 3:46pm) So he may be a shrink; but it's professionally inexcusable to offer an opinion, let alone a diagnosis, without a full and proper consultation with a subject, let alone a client, and without reference to any history and case notes. He should not have made those comments in those circumstances, and if he were acting in a professional manner, at minimum, a disclaimer in the above terms should have been issued. But thanks for the heads up, and I will certainly examine the complaints procedures for any professional bodies of which he is a member. Once he gets over his cold, he's going to need some help of his own, either legal or of the type that wasn't offered to me by ArbCom, and given that he was ideally placed to offer it, at least privately, and failed to do so, again indicates his lack of professionalism. In short, he's a charlatan.
And you're about as in contact with reality as Charlie Sheen right now, "Rod." Why don't you give it a rest? Who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Otherwise, crawl back under whatever stone you came from. Milton's not the only one. You come across as a seriously deranged fruitbat. I'd call it at about 1472 milli-Ottavas Just sayin' Trite insults don't help. Not much helps right now. Maybe I'm not as well as I should be right now, and maybe I'm not getting the help I should be. So, who the fuck are you? If you don't like me, ignore me. Is that so difficult for someone purporting to be superior in some way? I don't t'ink so. They're not trite and they're not insults. You are mad as a hatter. I get the heebie geebies everytime I read one of your posts. Stop posting please. Let's get this quite clear: *I* am as "mad as a hatter", yet *you* "get the heebie geebies everytime you read one of my posts"? It's like the old joke- Man goes to a doctor & says "It hurts when I do this"; doctor says "Well, don't do that". Same thing. Stop reading my posts, if they cause you so much pain. The remedy lies in your own hands.
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chrisoff |
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Fri 29th July 2011, 7:02pm) I found Casliber's comment totally unconvincing in terms of being from a qualified psychiatrist. The more I read it the less convincing it is, in fact.
Asking Casliber this kind of question is ridiculous. They should have brought in (or even actually employ for these occasions) qualified people - including the police on occasions it could be argued - but instead they are querying their anonymous selves, and constantly bargaining with misfits to attempt to maintain the appearance of credibility.
Is Casliber another Essejay? Just act like you are a psychiatrist and everyone believes it? Isn't there a rule about acting like a professional (whatever), and then using this professional "persona" to make pronouncements? Has Cas shown his real life credentials to arbcom? Or do they ask him to make professional psych pronouncements based on an Essejay-like faith? Is arbcom really as stupid and naive as these emails make them seem? And aren't there codes of ethics for psychiatrists that they don't make psychiatric opinions on people they don't know and haven't even seen? Especially on a site like wikipedia where no one is who they seem they are?
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Anna @ Mon 1st August 2011, 7:11am) One would think that giving a professional psychological diagnosis without extensive contact, preferably in-person contact, with the patient would be generally considered unethical, but that doesn't seem to stop people.
Where have you seen a professional psychological diagnosis given without in-person contact? Such suggestions are not "professional diagnoses" simply because they use the same words. By definition they are NOT professional diagnoses, but rather suggestions for consideration. Though such evaluations are not secure, a professional can sometimes get a good idea of what is going on, without actually seeing a patient. Also, there are plenty of situations in life where one doesn't need to be a professional at all, to understand what is happening. You don't need to be a weatherman to tell when ... ah... there are presently large amounts of precipitatation outside. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)
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Anna |
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Milton --
Mostly New Mexico, but a few times in Virginia. But you're right! It is an oxymoron when you think about it.
Well, right, but when I say, "That guy's alcohol addiction is making him do things he probably wouldn't do otherwise," I don't add, "and I'm a psychiatrist, so what I say is incontestable by you commoners." Because I mean it as a concerned citizen, not as a professional. Besides, in that example at least, it really does help to smell the alcohol and see how he's acting, which isn't something I can do online. Online, perhaps all I could say would be, "that person is acting oddly."
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 1st August 2011, 11:34am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Sat 30th July 2011, 7:46pm) And it's a gross insult to assume that I'm taking any drugs whatsoever; I am not.
Good for you! Drugs are bad for you. Malt liquor, on the other hand, is quite therapeutic. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Yep. And malt does more than Milton can to justfy God's ways to man. Although, actually, I'm dealing with a horribly alcoholic friend at the moment, and should bite my tongue about that. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) You know those know-it-alls that say that drugs are tools if used therapeutically, but devils if used recreationally? Well, alcohol is one of those drugs for which the opposite is true. Just to remind how fucked up conventional wisdom is. Therapeutic users of alcohol are exactly the people who get into trouble, and whose lives are ruined by the stuff.
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powercorrupts |
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QUOTE(Anna @ Mon 1st August 2011, 8:40pm) It isn't Encyclopedist's responsibility to entertain us. It's not as if it's hard to scroll past his or her posts if you don't like them.
He is a 'he' - perhaps you should read up on him before judging on whether people should read/react to him or not? The thing is that (most) people here genuinely want WR to be credible, if not perhaps always 100% 'serious'. That is why it matters if the place fills up with un-questioned bilge from nutters like Rodhull&Emu (Encyclopedist). WR doesn't have the best of names as it is, we can't let it be seen as complete loony bin. Obviously countering the fruitcakes can be something of a battle at times (ignoring doesn't always work – look at Karting and that other similar account), especially as everything happens under the lingering-distrust caused by a total rogue who gets off on creating male and female accounts, and manipulating innocent people. Nut-defenders like Abd would say "well it's up to people on WR to feel paranoid or not" - but that is a similarly poor argument for a website like this. You just can't let the loonies run wild. (When Poetlister, for example, arses-around unchecked for a sustained period, we know things eventually will get out of hand). Like it or not, WR is the main place to go to criticise Wikimedia – and so the whole world (you could say) needs it to maintain at least a smidgen of credibility. This post has been edited by powercorrupts:
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I want to stare at the seaside and do nothing at all
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Mon 1st August 2011, 8:37pm) No one asked Essajay to "prove" his credentials. Here arbcom seems to be doing the same thing. "He says he is a psychiatrist, so he must be one!" Disregarding the low level of his "psychiatric opinions", is he a bona fide psychiatrist? Or is he anonther Essajay?
Arbcom and Jimmy got badly burned by the Essjay scandal. As a result, they began insisting that anyone who was elected to Arbcom, plus anyone else who was requesting access to Oversight or Checkuser, identify themselves to the Foundation. Ostensibly, this is to make sure that anyone with access to information protected by the privacy policy is over the legal age of responsibility wherever they live. In reality, this is a secondary reason at best, and the primary reason is to make sure people are who they say they are. A quick google search turns up a psychiatrist in NSW whose hobby is mushrooms by the name "Cas Liber." If you want to be conspiratorial, all the user identification proves is that the user "Casliber" had temporary access to Cas Liber's drivers license or passport, to fax a copy to WMF. But I think that in the wake of the Essjay business you can be fairly certain that anyone with Checkuser or Oversight is who they claim to be (if they claim to be anyone at all). If on the other hand you are not convinced, then you might as well just stop playing the identity game and assume that everyone on Wikipedia is Essjay, because there is unlikely to be any practical verification procedure that will satisfy you.
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chrisoff |
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QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 1st August 2011, 5:25pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Mon 1st August 2011, 8:37pm) No one asked Essajay to "prove" his credentials. Here arbcom seems to be doing the same thing. "He says he is a psychiatrist, so he must be one!" Disregarding the low level of his "psychiatric opinions", is he a bona fide psychiatrist? Or is he anonther Essajay?
Arbcom and Jimmy got badly burned by the Essjay scandal. As a result, they began insisting that anyone who was elected to Arbcom, plus anyone else who was requesting access to Oversight or Checkuser, identify themselves to the Foundation. Ostensibly, this is to make sure that anyone with access to information protected by the privacy policy is over the legal age of responsibility wherever they live. In reality, this is a secondary reason at best, and the primary reason is to make sure people are who they say they are. A quick google search turns up a psychiatrist in NSW whose hobby is mushrooms by the name "Cas Liber." If you want to be conspiratorial, all the user identification proves is that the user "Casliber" had temporary access to Cas Liber's drivers license or passport, to fax a copy to WMF. But I think that in the wake of the Essjay business you can be fairly certain that anyone with Checkuser or Oversight is who they claim to be (if they claim to be anyone at all). If on the other hand you are not convinced, then you might as well just stop playing the identity game and assume that everyone on Wikipedia is Essjay, because there is unlikely to be any practical verification procedure that will satisfy you. So he is the official psychiatrist for arbcom? (But the quality of his "consultations" is so low, a joke really.) Plus, does Arbcom insist on seeing his license? Licenses are normally hanging on the office wall. Shouldn't we all be allowed to see his? Does he have liability insurance covering his "consultations" on wikipedia? (Doubtful, as what company would cover such foolishness.) Or just the fact that some one called Cas Liber who lives in NSW and calls himself an psychiatrist is enough? And is he competent in making diagnoses over the internet.? (Almost never would a psychiatrist claim such expertise, as it would be a speciality for which one would need a certification.) And isn't it frightening that arbcom is engaging in psychiatric analysis?
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Vigilant |
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Mon 1st August 2011, 9:54pm) And isn't it frightening that arbcom is engaging in psychiatric analysis?
And isn't it frightening that arbcom is engaging in psychotic analysis? FTFY
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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QUOTE(Anna @ Mon 1st August 2011, 4:34pm) If convincing me is so important to you, you might try a detailed critique of Encyclopedist, or a link to such a critique, rather than simple name-calling and a vague suggestion that I should research something. But convincing you is absolutely vital to the success of our massive international conspiracy! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) The thread Mr. Corrupts linked to is a start, or you could use the "Search" function (which, admittedly, isn't the finest you'll find). Seach for "Rodhullandemu" - that's Mr. Encyclopedist's WP username. The "short version" is that Mr. Encyclopedist/Emu was a WP administrator who started out being fairly content-oriented and perhaps a little "eccentric," but mostly harmless. Later, he became increasingly erratic, unpredictable, and to some extent abusive, often doing things (in particular, blocking) unilaterally when he should have consulted with others. He also became frustrated and disillusioned with WP over time - some would say this was largely because of WP's inability to control sock-puppet accounts of people he had already banned. (Also, Giano.) This ultimately led to him being banned/blocked himself, mostly for refusing to shut up, and for attracting/generating drama of the "bad" kind. He has, I believe, claimed that much of his objectionable behavior during the past 2 years has been due to an incapacitating illness, which may be life-threatening - however, it did not cause him to resign his adminship, and most admins (for fear of something similar happening to them) didn't call on him to do so either, until long after he'd reached the point of no return with the WP hierarchy. That may be the best I can do in one paragraph...! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Mon 1st August 2011, 2:54pm) And isn't it frightening that arbcom is engaging in psychiatric analysis?
Why would it be frightening? It doesn't matter if the guy's a real psychologist/psychiatrist or not, he's got no more or less power than any other random person on the internet, other than being having a bit of power on WP. Really. Why does that scare you? Do you have some kind of deep-seated fear of internet strangers judging you, or is it that they claim to be psychiatrists, even though it has absolutely no bearing on what they can do?
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Mon 1st August 2011, 11:18pm) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Mon 1st August 2011, 4:23pm) He is a 'he' - perhaps you should read up on him before judging on whether people should read/react to him or not?
As long as you're demanding that people read up on him before offering an opinion on his rants, perhaps you should also seek a research grant to determine the exact degree to which your shit can be objectively described as lacking stink? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I'm not 'demanding' anything of the kind you eternal idiot Ronnie. I simply said read up on him before telling other people how to react to him. There is a world of difference between telling people how to react to something and offering an opinion yourself - which I'm not sure she actually has done. If Anna is someone who does need to hold back a little before posting you are the last person on WR she needs to listen to. This post has been edited by powercorrupts:
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QUOTE(Sxeptomaniac @ Mon 1st August 2011, 6:48pm) QUOTE(chrisoff @ Mon 1st August 2011, 2:54pm) And isn't it frightening that arbcom is engaging in psychiatric analysis?
Why would it be frightening? It doesn't matter if the guy's a real psychologist/psychiatrist or not, he's got no more or less power than any other random person on the internet, other than being having a bit of power on WP. Really. Why does that scare you? Do you have some kind of deep-seated fear of internet strangers judging you, or is it that they claim to be psychiatrists, even though it has absolutely no bearing on what they can do? The scary part is this pseudo-psychiatrist has power over the fate of wikipedia editors by being an arb, and even more power because the arbs solicit his flaky "psychiatric advice" and appear to give it credence. Now granted this is all a game, but you don't think there are real people behind these screen names? And Malice's leaked emails shows how flaky their thinking is and how they give preference to certain editors. Oh, and also, how much they just plain gossip, while unfortunately having power over people's ability to edit the encyclopaedia "that anyone can edit." This post has been edited by chrisoff:
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QUOTE(Anna @ Mon 1st August 2011, 11:48pm) SB Johnny --
:-D
Don't follow Ronnie's advice for god's sake - you'll end up with your hand permanently stuck to your head. You don't have to thank me for the link btw. Somey's thrilling appraisal says about as much as Somey does on these occasions. He's ignored all the reasons that people call him flakey- and for those you really need to do some reading yourself if you want to know what they are. If you don't, don't. This post has been edited by powercorrupts:
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Mon 1st August 2011, 11:16pm) QUOTE(No one of consequence @ Mon 1st August 2011, 7:10pm) But three pages ago you turned the discussion to Casliber, who is apparently the most dangerous arbitrator of all, because his psychiatric opinions hold such sway over the others.
Pretty much anyone who offers off the cuff psychological diagnoses or theories on the interwebs is going to be annoying to pretty much everyone else, regardless of their actual qualifications. Or perhaps you've forgotten all about the redhead theories once popularized here on WR? Agreed, at least in part, although you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who has never said "you must be crazy" in reply to someone else. Or something of that ilk. When I was involved in WP, I didn't put much weight to people's explanations of why someone was acting like a dick. I just asked them to stop it, and occasionally invoked the "Wikipedia is not therapy" mantra. My point, though, was that chrisoff seems to be taking this unusually personally. But upon reflection, it doesn't seem to be a point worth making.
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QUOTE(Anna @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 12:15am) powercorrupts --
Thanks for the link. Now I have confirmed that I am disinterested in Encyclopedist's level of fruitcakiness. It seemed to me that the Arbitrary Committee members were overly obsessed with gossiping about someone, but that was hardly unique to that particular conversation.
And no, I'm not going to offer an opinion on how fruitcakey Rod is. If I don't perceive any threat, I fail to see how it would accomplish anything other than gossip.
(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) I really don't expect you to offer an opinion on anything! I merely pointed out to the muddled SB_Ronnie that you haven't actually given your opinion - as he just assumed I was reprimanding you for giving a poor one. Of course I was simply telling you that people have reasons for having the opinions they do, and you need to look into it before saying they shouldn't have them, or shouldn't express them. Whether RodHull/Encyclopedist was really linked to child porn or not (complete with conviction) isn't something I'd want to debate on this site, and I think Peter Damian probably put it best - just lay out the facts as we know them, and form you own opinion. Maybe his various fruitcakery (inc working for British Intelligence etc) is just a kind-of double 'front' to make him appear like he could 'delusionally' pretend he was into distributing child porn (as he claims - somehow without 'technically' admitting to it) - while simultaneously claiming it was in the service of the Queen as well. It's all so changeable and wobbly it's hard to remember (or indeed follow) how it is supposed to work - or work in theory, I should say. If you simply see it as uninteresting gossip then OK - we all have our own levels with these matters. But I would expect you to at least understand that others have a right to a strong opinion on him - on his unquestionably unbalanced comments at least - even if you don't agree with it, or have no opinion yourself. This post has been edited by powercorrupts:
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QUOTE(Anna @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 12:15am) powercorrupts --
Thanks for the link. Now I have confirmed that I am disinterested in Encyclopedist's level of fruitcakiness. It seemed to me that the Arbitrary Committee members were overly obsessed with gossiping about someone, but that was hardly unique to that particular conversation.
And no, I'm not going to offer an opinion on how fruitcakey Rod is. If I don't perceive any threat, I fail to see how it would accomplish anything other than gossip.
Thanks, and quite right too. Let's not forget that the poet Percy Bysshe Shelley was thrown out of Oxford University in 1811 on the basis of his pamphlet "The Necessity of Atheism", which, if not actually being regarded as fruit-cakery, was not far off in being interpreted as at least a minor heresy. These days, we'd say "who gives a fuck?" because arguably the idea of tolerance has moved on somewhat- except in my case, which is why what the ArbCom did to me, and the way they did it, was, and remains, indefensible. You'd have to read the full emails between myself and ArbCom to get the full flavour of the situation, and I published them following this: . I'm sorry this is so lengthy a discussion, but you should be able to see the level of community opposition to the way ArbCom went about this and the flailing around by ArbCom in an unseemly attempt to defend their own faulty procedures. Not sure I can get round right now to providing a link to the emails that I posted on WP, because they seem to have been well-hidden. But I am quite prepared to forward them to anyone interested enough, and all of them, since I have nothing to hide. Apart from what happened on WP- which, I point out, wasn't preceded by the usual RFC and I still see no cogent argument from ArbCom that my desysop was "urgent", even if they purported to apply a "temporary" desysop, which was actually permanent, although none of them had the balls to say so, there was also some completely unsourced and circumstantial mudslinging, possibly from some anonymous vandal I'd previously blocked, but still unsourced, that took things off at a tangent, and I was by then getting snowed under by the whole stupidity of the thing. Anyone who thinks that these goons deserve to remain in office is either too lazy to go through the evidence and evaluate it properly or has no sense of fair play- and that includes Jimmy Wales, who, er, is not known for taking an independent view from that of ArbCom. In short, it sucked, it still sucks, and ArbCom, having found a peg onto which to hang my desysopping, had no problem, given the slightest reason, to impose a ban. What a bunch of cunts! This post has been edited by Encyclopedist:
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 12:55am) QUOTE(Anna @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 12:15am) powercorrupts --
Thanks for the link. Now I have confirmed that I am disinterested in Encyclopedist's level of fruitcakiness. It seemed to me that the Arbitrary Committee members were overly obsessed with gossiping about someone, but that was hardly unique to that particular conversation.
And no, I'm not going to offer an opinion on how fruitcakey Rod is. If I don't perceive any threat, I fail to see how it would accomplish anything other than gossip.
(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif) I really don't expect you to offer an opinion on anything! I merely pointed out to the muddled SB_Ronnie that you haven't actually given your opinion - as he just assumed I was reprimanding you for giving a poor one. Of course I was simply telling you that people have reasons for having the opinions they do, and you need to look into it before saying they shouldn't have them, or shouldn't express them. Whether RodHull/Encyclopedist was really linked to child porn or not (complete with conviction) isn't something I'd want to debate on this site, and I think Peter Damian probably put it best - just lay out the facts as we know them, and form you own opinion. Maybe his various fruitcakery (inc working for British Intelligence etc) is just a kind-of double 'front' to make him appear like he could 'delusionally' pretend he was into distributing child porn (as he claims - somehow without 'technically' admitting to it) - while simultaneously claiming it was in the service of the Queen as well. It's all so changeable and wobbly it's hard to remember (or indeed follow) how it is supposed to work - or work in theory, I should say. If you simply see it as uninteresting gossip then OK - we all have our own levels with these matters. But I would expect you to at least understand that others have a right to a strong opinion on him - on his unquestionably unbalanced comments at least - even if you don't agree with it, or have no opinion yourself. Let me make this quite clear: I have no criminal convictions in relation to child pornography or anything like it. I cannot comment on Peter Damien's post in relation to that, because that is currently with my counsel for consideration. He's unlucky in that (a) he lives in the same legal jurisdiction as myself, (b) has made no attempt to retain his anonymity, and © has assets within that jurisdiction. I know a weak position when I see it. There is a different argument as to how some *other* fruitcakes might want to denigrate someone whom they think is me (IRL), and that, too, is outside the scope of this discussion board. Let's just say that it won't happen again. This post has been edited by Encyclopedist:
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:20am) Let me make this quite clear: I have no criminal convictions in relation to child pornography or anything like it. I cannot comment on Peter Damien's post in relation to that, because that is currently with my counsel for consideration. He's unlucky in that (a) he lives in the same legal jurisdiction as myself, (b) has made no attempt to retain his anonymity, and © has assets within that jurisdiction. I know a weak position when I see it.
There is a different argument as to how some *other* fruitcakes might want to denigrate someone whom they think is me (IRL), and that, too, is outside the scope of this discussion board. Let's just say that it won't happen again.
You clearly don't even remember what Peter said, you nob. He didn't offer a 'position' at all. No 'council' would spend a second looking at it that way (even ones taking the money you don't have), though they might be interested in following up the various leads. And neither did Arbcom offer a postion, despite Anna calling it "gossip" (though I doubt she properly read it somehow). This post has been edited by powercorrupts:
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:33am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:20am) Let me make this quite clear: I have no criminal convictions in relation to child pornography or anything like it. I cannot comment on Peter Damien's post in relation to that, because that is currently with my counsel for consideration. He's unlucky in that (a) he lives in the same legal jurisdiction as myself, (b) has made no attempt to retain his anonymity, and © has assets within that jurisdiction. I know a weak position when I see it.
There is a different argument as to how some *other* fruitcakes might want to denigrate someone whom they think is me (IRL), and that, too, is outside the scope of this discussion board. Let's just say that it won't happen again.
You clearly don't even remember what Peter said, you nob. - Oh yes I do, and since it's still recorded here, I can still refer to it, as can my legal advisers, although obviously there is now an offline copy forming part of the case papers. And I think you mean "knob", meaning "incompetent", rather than "nob", meaning "heads" or "person of nobility". He didn't offer a 'position' at all. - The effects of his edit are open to interpretation, particularly in relation to a part of defamation law called "innuendo". Let's just say that I offered him an opportunity to withdraw his post, but, er, he hasn't taken that opportunity. No 'council' would spend a second looking at it that way (even ones taking the money you don't have), - You're confusing "counsel", meaning a legal adviser, normally in the UK referring to a barrister, with "council", a body, usually elected, having the function or purpose of reaching decisions of some sort of other. As regards the finance, as a former legal practitioner myself, what on earth makes you think that I can't call in a few favours? Get real! though they might be interested in following up the various leads. And neither did Arbcom offer a postion, despite Anna calling it "gossip" (though I doubt she properly read it somehow). - ArbCom should have been more careful; but they weren't, because they thought they could ride roughshod over me due to their perceiving me as weak. Well, hot dog, they should have foreseen perhaps, that I might not remain so forever! I'm in daily contact with my solicitor, and am going up to Liverpool for a case conference in a week or so. After that is when the excrement hits the rotating air-conditioning device in a very real and meaningful sense. This post has been edited by Encyclopedist:
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:33am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:20am) Let me make this quite clear: I have no criminal convictions in relation to child pornography or anything like it. I cannot comment on Peter Damien's post in relation to that, because that is currently with my counsel for consideration. He's unlucky in that (a) he lives in the same legal jurisdiction as myself, (b) has made no attempt to retain his anonymity, and © has assets within that jurisdiction. I know a weak position when I see it.
There is a different argument as to how some *other* fruitcakes might want to denigrate someone whom they think is me (IRL), and that, too, is outside the scope of this discussion board. Let's just say that it won't happen again.
You clearly don't even remember what Peter said, you nob. - Oh yes I do, and since it's still recorded here, I can still refer to it, as can my legal advisers, although obviously there is now an offline copy forming part of the case papers. And I think you mean "knob", meaning "incompetent", rather than "nob", meaning "heads" or "person of nobility". He didn't offer a 'position' at all. - The effects of his edit are open to interpretation, particularly in relation to a part of defamation law called "innuendo". Let's just say that I offered him an opportunity to withdraw his post, but, er, he hasn't taken that opportunity. No 'council' would spend a second looking at it that way (even ones taking the money you don't have), - You're confusing "counsel", meaning a legal adviser, normally in the UK referring to a barrister, with "council", a body, usually elected, having the function or purpose of reaching decisions of some sort of other. As regards the finance, as a former legal practitioner myself, what on earth makes you think that I can't call in a few favours? Get real! though they might be interested in following up the various leads. And neither did Arbcom offer a postion, despite Anna calling it "gossip" (though I doubt she properly read it somehow). - ArbCom should have been more careful; but they weren't, because they thought they could ride roughshod over me due to their perceiving me as weak. Well, hot dog, they should have foreseen perhaps, that I might not remain so forever! I'm in daily contact with my solicitor, and am going up to Liverpool for a case conference in a week or so. After that is when the excrement hits the rotating air-conditioning device in a very real and meaningful sense. Phil/Rod, I do rather admire your capacity for bluster and bullshit, I can see why you felt so at home on Wikipedia.
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:04am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:33am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:20am) Let me make this quite clear: I have no criminal convictions in relation to child pornography or anything like it. I cannot comment on Peter Damien's post in relation to that, because that is currently with my counsel for consideration. He's unlucky in that (a) he lives in the same legal jurisdiction as myself, (b) has made no attempt to retain his anonymity, and © has assets within that jurisdiction. I know a weak position when I see it.
There is a different argument as to how some *other* fruitcakes might want to denigrate someone whom they think is me (IRL), and that, too, is outside the scope of this discussion board. Let's just say that it won't happen again.
You clearly don't even remember what Peter said, you nob. - Oh yes I do, and since it's still recorded here, I can still refer to it, as can my legal advisers, although obviously there is now an offline copy forming part of the case papers. And I think you mean "knob", meaning "incompetent", rather than "nob", meaning "heads" or "person of nobility". He didn't offer a 'position' at all. - The effects of his edit are open to interpretation, particularly in relation to a part of defamation law called "innuendo". Let's just say that I offered him an opportunity to withdraw his post, but, er, he hasn't taken that opportunity. No 'council' would spend a second looking at it that way (even ones taking the money you don't have), - You're confusing "counsel", meaning a legal adviser, normally in the UK referring to a barrister, with "council", a body, usually elected, having the function or purpose of reaching decisions of some sort of other. As regards the finance, as a former legal practitioner myself, what on earth makes you think that I can't call in a few favours? Get real! though they might be interested in following up the various leads. And neither did Arbcom offer a postion, despite Anna calling it "gossip" (though I doubt she properly read it somehow). - ArbCom should have been more careful; but they weren't, because they thought they could ride roughshod over me due to their perceiving me as weak. Well, hot dog, they should have foreseen perhaps, that I might not remain so forever! I'm in daily contact with my solicitor, and am going up to Liverpool for a case conference in a week or so. After that is when the excrement hits the rotating air-conditioning device in a very real and meaningful sense. Phil/Rod, I do rather admire your capacity for bluster and bullshit, I can see why you felt so at home on Wikipedia. Now I know why you were kicked off Wikiipedia. You didn't get it then, and you don't get it now. Unless you have anything constructive to offer, which I doubt, your best contribution to this discussion is probably silence.
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:11am)
Now I know why you were kicked off Wikiipedia.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/RMHED" target="_blank"></a>
You didn't get it then, and you don't get it now. Unless you have anything constructive to offer, which I doubt, your best contribution to this discussion is probably silence.
I've never been kicked off Wikipedia. User:RMHED is de facto banned, but that hasn't stopped me from 'contributing' to da 'pedia. I like to make lots of little 'contributions' all over da 'pedia rather like an incontinent dog leaves their 'contributions' around the house.
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:33am) QUOTE(Anna @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) Well I suppose that certainly constitutes an opinion now, assuming (as I will) that you've read-up at least that thread at this stage. So you wouldn't even put it to him then? The mere name (ie a 'Phil Nash') isn't the only connection is it? And why can't Phil simply deny it without defending the person in some way, and conjecturing on why he might do it (even did it - what's all the covert stuff about?) Do you have a WP account incidentally? Sorry if you've answered that before. 1. As far as I know, we don't know each other IRL, so, as in my comment to Milton Roe, I see no reason why you should refer to me as "Phil", unless you're prepared to buy me a pint or two in the Black Horse, Frome Road, tomorrow, when we can discuss this, and maybe even come to some sort of arrangement. If you were watching carefully, you will have taken a note of my mobile(cellphone) number. 2. You shouldn't assume that no denial = no acceptance. In the murky area of black ops, it is often helpful to muddy the waters, and even more so when seeking to deflect from the truth. Am I the Chief Financial Officer of Torfaen District Council, a photographer based in Oxfordshire, a respected historian with respect to the Cold War, or have I even picked a name at random off of the web behind which to hide? Fact is, you will never know, and never can know. 3. Anna seems to have some common sense, so by prevailing standards here, may not necessarily have a WP account. Bottom line is that you do not need to know, and shouldn't ask.
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) I think you mean "knob", meaning "incompetent", rather than "nob", meaning "heads" or "person of nobility".
No I meant nob, as in rod. QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) The effects of his edit are open to interpretation, particularly in relation to a part of defamation law called "innuendo". Let's just say that I offered him an opportunity to withdraw his post, but, er, he hasn't taken that opportunity.
Lets just say you are full of it Phil. QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) You're confusing "counsel", meaning a legal adviser, normally in the UK referring to a barrister, with "council", a body, usually elected, having the function or purpose of reaching decisions of some sort of other.
No, I just spelt it wrong. It's late. I didn't think you took it to your local councilors, or expect them to charge you for directing you somewhere else (like your doctor). QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) I'm in daily contact with my solicitor, and am going up to Liverpool for a case conference in a week or so. After that is when the excrement hits the rotating air-conditioning device in a very real and meaningful sense.
Sorry I thought you were bound by poverty and terminally ill.
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QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:47am) QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:33am) QUOTE(Anna @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) Well I suppose that certainly constitutes an opinion now, assuming (as I will) that you've read-up at least that thread at this stage. So you wouldn't even put it to him then? The mere name (ie a 'Phil Nash') isn't the only connection is it? And why can't Phil simply deny it without defending the person in some way, and conjecturing on why he might do it (even did it - what's all the covert stuff about?) Do you have a WP account incidentally? Sorry if you've answered that before. (snipping the nuts) 3. Anna seems to have some common sense, so by prevailing standards here, may not necessarily have a WP account. Bottom line is that you do not need to know, and shouldn't ask. It pains me to say this but I hope it's not RodHull&Anna Phil I really do! Let her answer that herself.
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QUOTE(powercorrupts @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 2:51am) QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) I think you mean "knob", meaning "incompetent", rather than "nob", meaning "heads" or "person of nobility".
No I meant nob, as in rod. - ORLY? I think you should get some sleep right now, because you've stopped making sense. QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) The effects of his edit are open to interpretation, particularly in relation to a part of defamation law called "innuendo". Let's just say that I offered him an opportunity to withdraw his post, but, er, he hasn't taken that opportunity.
Lets just say you are full of it Phil. - Or just knowledgeable. But it is noted that you offer nothing to rebut what I said. If you are going to associate yourself with Peter Damian (a.k.a Dr Edward Buckner)'s comments about me, please feel free to do so. The bigger the party, the bigger the damages, as I learned early in my legal career. QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) You're confusing "counsel", meaning a legal adviser, normally in the UK referring to a barrister, with "council", a body, usually elected, having the function or purpose of reaching decisions of some sort of other.
No, I just spelt it wrong. It's late. I didn't think you took it to your local councilors, or expect them to charge you for directing you somewhere else (like your doctor). -It's late here too; but I can still control what I write, and how I write it. Which important difference means that if necessary, I can still go on for another few hours should I need to. However, you're losing it, so I don't need to. QUOTE(Encyclopedist @ Tue 2nd August 2011, 1:54am) I'm in daily contact with my solicitor, and am going up to Liverpool for a case conference in a week or so. After that is when the excrement hits the rotating air-conditioning device in a very real and meaningful sense.
Sorry I thought you were bound by poverty and terminally ill. - See above; sober up; get a grip, and if it really matters to you, deal cogently with the issues I raise, if you can. Meanwhile, I'm in remission for now, so have enough energy to deal with cretins, should I wish to- but doing so entertains me, so please feel free to continue making an utter foo' of yourself.
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powercorrupts -- It's not impossible. But I don't have access to government records. I don't have the details of the original case -- not the some Usenet posting, but the official records. (Assuming there was an original case, and the thing wasn't written by some impersonator trying to destroy the target's reputation.) Particularly the part with the full identity of the person, which should be more specific than just a name. Nor have I seen Encyclopedist's ID. However, I do know that it's legally risky to accuse someone of a major felony, at least when speaking publicly. Mostly, people talk about suing more than they actually do it, but it's still a risk. Actually, it's probably not a huge risk with Encyclopedist -- when people actually have legal counsel, they are often advised to avoid whomever they are in conflict with and let the lawyer handle the communications. A lawyer would probably be concerned that Encyclopedist might hurt his case by continuing to talk. But even so, it's not a good habit to get into saying legally risky things. Presumably, if the official records were located, and if Encyclopedist were willing to show legal ID to someone, suspicions could be confirmed or denied with far better accuracy than guessing based on Usenet posts. It would seem to be helpful to contact authorities with access to the ViSOR database, perhaps the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre. In my completely non-professional opinion, that would seem to be something a concerned citizen could do with minimal risk of getting sued. http://www.npia.police.uk/en/10510.htmBut, as it stands now, I see suspicions, similarities, but not enough to come to any solid conclusions. Not solid enough to take the legal risk of publicly accusing someone of a felony, in any case. In other words, gossip. As for whether or not I have an account on Wikipedia, I already discussed that on Encyc. http://forum.encyc.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=278The fact that I am, in fact, a woman could be easily confirmed by phone. Not that I would give my phone number out to someone I would not expect to have a pleasant conversation with. Herschelrustofsky, Emperor, and Somey seem reasonably nice, although I'm not sure if they're the sorts to exchange phone numbers. And I would expect a name -- a first name, at least -- and a phone number in exchange for a name and a phone number. None of that hidden caller ID stuff.
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