SlimVirgin-Lar arbitration case, Arbcom lazy, or just stalling? Options Rating

[KamrynMatika]

SV has posted some more public accusations without evidence, and was immediately taken to task for it by what appears to be a neutral observer.

To accuse Lar of offering to "trade wiki-gossip for information" from WR participants without evidence is really some dirty pool.

That's so funny. She's so crazy. It's as if she really doesn't give a shit anymore and is just going to say anything she feels like saying for the hell of it. Surely she must know that nobody takes her seriously anymore and posting this stuff just makes her look even worse. She at least needs to come up with new memes. The innuendo about harassment against females and the accusations of Lar conspiring with people at Wikipedia Review isn't even interesting anymore

Haha, and I just noticed this:

I therefore chose not to get involved in a case where no policy violation by me was alleged, where we would not be allowed to see the evidence, and based on an RfAr that I had not posted. That is my right, surely. SlimVirgin talk|edits 21:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

By "I chose not to get involved" I'm assuming she means "I made lots of unsubtantiated allegations and repeatedly asked for extensions on deadlines under the pretext of preparing non-existent evidence".

[dogbiscuit]

I think it has gone beyond even this. If Slim has no faith in arbcom or the ombudsman (indeed utter contempt for both), and is left feeling wronged, and her privacy violated by someone who enjoys our highest tools of trust; if the only remedy she feels left for her is to repeatedly make unsubstantiable allegations, then she and wikipedia, with the greatest regret, must part company. No matter how right she may be, we can't have the law of the jungle. We need a final court that can, on the community's behalf, vindicate or damn our officials (and both Lar and the community are entitled to one or the other). Without that there can be no trust, (and no closure) and without trust (and closure), the project dies in frantic wars of accusations and assertions. (If I hear one one assertion based on "I've got a private e-mail from someone I can't name....)--Scott MacDonald (talk) 23:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to say that Slim posting another diatribe while refusing to get involved in ArbCom is a replay of so many talk page arguments, just on a larger scale.

It is however a sequence which I feel fulfils my comment above. It is a death wish post: it is ArbCom vs SlimVirgin and one can only assume that she is finally ready to walk away from Wikipedia, because I cannot believe that Jimbo will play his Get Out of Jail Card for the blatant refusal to abide by Wikipedia's dispute resolution.

However, SlimVirgin does however give us this little snippet which is supposed to be the denial of an overly close relationship with Crum aka MeatPuppet (which regulars of WR will recall is not based on some fantasy, but innumerable instances where Crum has seamlessly slipped into taking her part in conversations, or joined in revert wars with no prior contact on Wikipedia)

7. In checking Crum, Lar found that Crum and I had several times shared a closed proxy. I stress that this was a closed proxy, not an open one. I had used one of Crum's proxies a few times to read Wikipedia Review, and had forgotten to revert back to my own IP to edit Wikipedia. Jimbo and several checkusers already knew about this.

That's so funny. She's so crazy. It's as if she really doesn't give a shit anymore and is just going to say anything she feels like saying for the hell of it. Surely she must know that nobody takes her seriously anymore and posting this stuff just makes her look even worse. She at the least needs to come up with new memes. The innuendo about harassment against females and Lar consorting with people at Wikipedia Review isn't even interesting anymore

Actually, this is simply her article behaviour on a larger political platform. In the past, it was her favourite tactic to edit unilaterally and when being told to take it to talk, when she was soundly beaten, she would just accuse those who disagreed with her edits that they were very nasty people and refuse to be subjected to that evil process of forming consensus.

The only difference is that she no longer can claim to be a well respected editor.

We await to see what Crum375's input will be - who will Crum revert and how many times?

[Herschelkrustofsky]

What's the difference between an "open proxy" and a "closed proxy"? Why would SV need to use Crum's closed proxy to read the Wikipedia Review? Does it provided some sort of cootie protection?

[Somey]

12. Lar wrote to me very aggressively after the checkuser insisting that I send him all correspondence related to my use of the closed proxy. He wanted to know the entire background, including who had been told about it. He asked to see my e-mails to and from Jimbo and the checkusers. I asked him why he needed to see these, and he could not explain, other than to say I should send them to him "as a friend" (though I have never considered him to be a friend, and have had minimal contact with him).

This made me suspicious. I felt that Lar simply wanted as much information as he could get, particularly about wiki-relationships, IPs, and locations of editors, perhaps in order to pass it to his friends on Wikipedia Review. His need to read my private correspondence made no sense otherwise, and to this day he has been unable to explain it.

What exactly would we do with such information? We already know that both Slimmy & Crummy read WR via proxies, we already know who Slimmy is, and Crummy is pretty much out of the picture at this point. Unless she thinks we're trying to find out what WP account Crummy is using now...? I'm not really interested in that personally, but is anyone else?

[Cla68]

SV has posted some more public accusations without evidence, and was immediately taken to task for it by what appears to be a neutral observer.

To accuse Lar of offering to "trade wiki-gossip for information" from WR participants without evidence is really some dirty pool.

That's so funny. She's so crazy. It's as if she really doesn't give a shit anymore and is just going to say anything she feels like saying for the hell of it. Surely she must know that nobody takes her seriously anymore and posting this stuff just makes her look even worse. She at least needs to come up with new memes. The innuendo about harassment against females and the accusations of Lar conspiring with people at Wikipedia Review isn't even interesting anymore

Haha, and I just noticed this:

I therefore chose not to get involved in a case where no policy violation by me was alleged, where we would not be allowed to see the evidence, and based on an RfAr that I had not posted. That is my right, surely. SlimVirgin talk|edits 21:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

By "I chose not to get involved" I'm assuming she means "I made lots of unsubtantiated allegations and repeatedly asked for extensions on deadlines under the pretext of preparing non-existent evidence".

I think what she's actually trying to do is to leave a cloud of suspicion and innuendo over Lar as the case closes. It is really some very unethical conduct on SlimVirgin's part.

[Piperdown]

remind me....has it ever been proven that Crum375 is absolutely not a sock of SlimVirgin nor has never been used as a shared account to bypass 3RR and other more serious admin breach of ethics....

there's no reason that "Crum375" should have ever been allowed to edit WP via a proxy.

there was some very, very suspicious activity by "Crum375"'s account in 2007.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Tue 21st October 2008, 12:48am

[gomi]

You left out the best part!

14. After the checkuser, I was approached by several women Wikipedians who had heard there was some problem with Lar. I was told that, for some time, Lar has been offering to swap Wikipedia gossip in exchange for certain types of information from these women. I will not post details here. Only one was willing to submit limited evidence, and only to a few people. Jimbo was approached and said the source would have to appear before the whole ArbCom. She was unwilling to do that, so the evidence could not be submitted.

Quel salaciousness!! And utterly, utterly unprovable! SlimVirgin is truly a master of the form, that form being the smearing of people through unprovable insinuation. I hereby apologize to all those Slim-is-a-spy conspiracy theorists -- you are simply following her example!

As for Lar, however, big trouble with the espousal unit tonite!

[Piperdown]

...and i think this would be a GREAT time for Cla68's ReqForAdminship get its due.

You left out the best part!

14. After the checkuser, I was approached by several women Wikipedians who had heard there was some problem with Lar. I was told that, for some time, Lar has been offering to swap Wikipedia gossip in exchange for certain types of information from these women. I will not post details here. Only one was willing to submit limited evidence, and only to a few people. Jimbo was approached and said the source would have to appear before the whole ArbCom. She was unwilling to do that, so the evidence could not be submitted.

Quel salaciousness!! And utterly, utterly unprovable! SlimVirgin is truly a master of the form, that form being the smearing of people through unprovable insinuation. I hereby apologize to all those Slim-is-a-spy conspiracy theorists -- you are simply following her example!

what a heaping pile of steamy slim bullshit. right up there with her lies about deceptively taking Judd Bagley's evidence email and forwarding it directly to Gary Weiss.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Tue 21st October 2008, 12:53am

[Obesity]

We await to see what Crum375's input will be - who will Crum revert and how many times?

Well, WP's fattest attention whore attempted to offer his two cents (while corroborating some of SV's uglier accusations) and has already been reverted twice (albeit not by Crum375):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246611061

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246613103

I guess there's no love for trolls on ArbCom subpages anymore, now that Tony Sidaway is gone.

And it's supposed to be "whom will Crum revert", you illiterate, badsite scoundrel.

[Cla68]

We await to see what Crum375's input will be - who will Crum revert and how many times?

Well, WP's fattest attention whore attempted to offer his two cents (while corroborating some of SV's uglier accusations) and has already been reverted twice (albeit not by Crum375):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246611061

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246613103

I guess there's no love for trolls on ArbCom subpages anymore, now that Tony Sidaway is gone.

And it's supposed to be "whom will Crum revert", you illiterate, badsite scoundrel.

I can't find where the clerk announced that sarcastic humor wasn't allowed on that particular case's talk page.

[Piperdown]

We await to see what Crum375's input will be - who will Crum revert and how many times?

Well, WP's fattest attention whore attempted to offer his two cents (while corroborating some of SV's uglier accusations) and has already been reverted twice (albeit not by Crum375):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246611061

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246613103

I guess there's no love for trolls on ArbCom subpages anymore, now that Tony Sidaway is gone.

And it's supposed to be "whom will Crum revert", you illiterate, badsite scoundrel.

Excellent.

There's boring, shitforbrains trolling like Tony, then there's truly entertaining prose. Well done, fatty.


oh yeah, fat man. You need to work in a "rape" story in there, like Crummy did for the Piper....

[dogbiscuit]

What's the difference between an "open proxy" and a "closed proxy"? Why would SV need to use Crum's closed proxy to read the Wikipedia Review? Does it provided some sort of cootie protection?

The only difference is that a closed proxy is by invitation only. They are still intended to hide your IP from Wikipedia and as CU's are beyond suspicion(!) there is no reason to allow them. Wikipedia's rules for their use are here: note Slim fails at the first hurdle. However, if you read it carefully, Slim is not saying she or Crum use the closed proxies for accessing Wikipedia, except by accident, but for reading our esteemed site. A closed proxy could simply be SlimVirgin using remote desktop access onto Crum's PC, so this statement cannot simply be taken at face value.

However, I think she has shot herself in the foot. Lar has seen shared IP addresses between the accounts - which was enough to need a rootkit to be a plausible explanation. It is perfectly reasonable for him to investigate this. It also means that it is difficult to disprove the suspicion that Slim borrowed Crum's account on occasions if the edits are through a proxy rather than a native IP address.

All in all, excuse upon excuse for being found to be operating to a different set of rules than the Wikiplebian.

[Piperdown]

What's the difference between an "open proxy" and a "closed proxy"? Why would SV need to use Crum's closed proxy to read the Wikipedia Review? Does it provided some sort of cootie protection?

The only difference is that a closed proxy is by invitation only. They are still intended to hide your IP from Wikipedia and as CU's are beyond suspicion(!) there is no reason to allow them. Wikipedia's rules for their use are here: note Slim fails at the first hurdle. However, if you read it carefully, Slim is not saying she or Crum use the closed proxies for accessing Wikipedia, except by accident, but for reading our esteemed site. A closed proxy could simply be SlimVirgin using remote desktop access onto Crum's PC, so this statement cannot simply be taken at face value.

However, I think she has shot herself in the foot. Lar has seen shared IP addresses between the accounts - which was enough to need a rootkit to be a plausible explanation. It is perfectly reasonable for him to investigate this. It also means that it is difficult to disprove the suspicion that Slim borrowed Crum's account on occasions if the edits are through a proxy rather than a native IP address.

All in all, excuse upon excuse for being found to be operating to a different set of rules than the Wikiplebian.

agreed.

now that i know that Crummy and Slimmy "shared" the same proxy, well....that's just something she didn't need to share (TMI!) but did anyway.

If I was her Wikilawyer, I'd have told my client to STFU and kept on with the Chewbacca Defense. With a Harassment Diversion and a Full-On Distressed Damsel end-around.

[MrM]

What's the difference between an "open proxy" and a "closed proxy"? Why would SV need to use Crum's closed proxy to read the Wikipedia Review? Does it provided some sort of cootie protection?

An open proxy may be used by anyone. A closed proxy has a password or an IP access list set so only certain people may use them. She's only mentioning it's a closed proxy because they're permitted by policy, while open proxies are supposed to be blocked when discovered.

She was probably just afraid of exposing her IP address in WR's access logs, though there are 'cootie protection' proxies around that scrub javascript, images, and other potential security problems from the HTML they serve.

Pretty paranoid, though. Who's got time to comb through access logs trying to figure out who's who based on threads read? That's got to be a lot of work for very little reward.

EDIT: I have been made redundant by faster posters.

This post has been edited by MrM: Tue 21st October 2008, 1:08am

[Somey]

What's the difference between an "open proxy" and a "closed proxy"? Why would SV need to use Crum's closed proxy to read the Wikipedia Review? Does it provided some sort of cootie protection?

An open proxy can be used by anyone, anonymously, whereas a closed proxy requires an account on the machine in question and proper authentication. I usually call them "public proxies" vs. "private proxies," myself.

As for why she'd feel that she'd need a closed/private proxy to read WR, as opposed to an open/public one, I dunno... I guess maybe the private ones are faster, because hardly anyone else is using them at any given time?

I've looked at the raw access logs only three times in the last two years, but if one of us admins/mods knew exactly what to look for and when, I guess we could constantly monitor the "Who's Online" feature. Hardly a productive way to spend time, though... and I doubt you could get much of anything conclusive from that regardless.

[One]

remind me....has it ever been proven that Crum375 is absolutely not a sock of SlimVirgin nor has never been used as a shared account to bypass 3RR and other more serious admin breach of ethics....

there's no reason that "Crum375" should have ever been allowed to edit WP via a proxy.

there was some very, very suspicious activity by "Crum375"'s account in 2007.

There is zero chance that there is not a separate human being who pilots Crum. SlimVirgin would have to stay awake for days on end to run both accounts; she sleeps erratically, and Crum looks like someone with a job.

I supposed there's a chance of password sharing--especially if they sometimes use the same proxy--but Crum357 is different.

[Cla68]

The person behind the Wikitumnus account has used it to post more comments attempting to support SV's side.

[wikiwhistle]

We await to see what Crum375's input will be - who will Crum revert and how many times?

Well, WP's fattest attention whore attempted to offer his two cents (while corroborating some of SV's uglier accusations) and has already been reverted twice (albeit not by Crum375):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246611061

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=246613103

I guess there's no love for trolls on ArbCom subpages anymore, now that Tony Sidaway is gone.

And it's supposed to be "whom will Crum revert", you illiterate, badsite scoundrel.

Excellent.

There's boring, shitforbrains trolling like Tony, then there's truly entertaining prose. Well done, fatty.


oh yeah, fat man. You need to work in a "rape" story in there, like Crummy did for the Piper....

No offence but I thought he was planning to run for ArbCom? Rather than troll it.

[Milton Roe]

The person behind the Wikitumnus account has used it to post more comments attempting to support SV's side.

Somebody needs to checkuser this Wikinumbnuts lady, and find out if she really is ElinorD.

Even if it isn't, I wonder if ElinorD doesn't know SlimV in real-life. Perhaps they went to philosophy classes at Cambridge together, or something?

[Cla68]

ArbCom just did the right thing to that talk page. Kirill's comments are especially clear.