The link that Crum BLPed off of Patrick Byrne's evidence, ....a public service provided by the WR Cabal! Options

[the fieryangel]

Patrick Byrne, in his Mantanmoreland Arb-com evidence, talks about an "decisive event" that's going to "change everything" over at WP. He posted a link to his evidence, which Crum then removed for "BLP reasons".

Here's the link which was removed : Read and discuss!

I haven't gone through this all yet, but it looks interesting.

Patrick Byrne, in his Mantanmoreland Arb-com evidence, talks about an "decisive event" that's going to "change everything" over at WP. He posted a link to his evidence, which Crum then removed for "BLP reasons".

Here's the link which was removed : Read and discuss!

I haven't gone through this all yet, but it looks interesting.

I've had time to skim this, but it's all there, it's documented by emails and diffs and....it's extremely damning.

Even if the Arb-com suppresses this, somebody in the News World is going to pick this football up and run with it.

I really can't see how they can explain this away....

Oh, and there's this tasty little tidbit:

n) There is another twist to this story. Above I mentioned “SlimVirgin,” a Wikipedia super-user who in the eyes of some observers seems even to outrank Jimbo Wales. SlimVirgin has been the protector of Gary Weiss. SlimVirgin’s real name is “Linda Mack,” and she is a woman from my own distant past, as you can read here and here. I will save further exploration of this for a later date.

This post has been edited by the fieryangel: Sat 23rd February 2008, 11:09am

[Kato]

Presumably, Crum's frantic efforts to remove the link were because in passing it referenced LindaMack=SlimVirgin, and had nothing to do with Crum's touted "BLP concerns".

I really don't understand that Crum character. It's like he's under some kind of spell to protect his mistress at all costs. His devotion knows no bounds.

Tobias and Wordbomb note on Wikiback that it acceptable to remove any reference to Gary Weiss or Linda Mack, yet one can link to Weiss's blog attacking Patrick Byrne at will. And someone like JzG can say what he likes about Judd Bagley on WP, and does.

http://www.wikback.com/forums/ubbthreads.p...r=3233#Post3233

[dtobias]

One lesson people never seem to have learned throughout history is that the more vigorous one's efforts to suppress something are, the more attention will be drawn to whatever it is that's being suppressed. An example I happened to stumble upon while browsing Wikipedia is The Well of Loneliness, a 1920s lesbian novel (apparently extremely tame by modern standards; nothing resembling explicit sex) that was banned in England and attempted to be banned in the U.S., with moralists writing scathing editorials about how it was "A Book that Must Be Suppressed", mostly on the grounds that it (gasp, horror!) portrayed lesbianism as something that might actually be an acceptable lifestyle.



Wikipedia's article on this has Featured Article status.

[Kato]

Most of the leading Wikipedians just aren't worldly. They have managed to find themselves in positions of responsibility way beyond their experience. It's probably the main reason why they are so easily picked apart by this site.

[Moulton]

"What you resist, persists." --Proverb

[SenseMaker]

This was a great link:

http://community.overstock.com/deepcapture...uch-psychopath/

My prediction is that this is going to hit the New York Times. It's so juicy and the facts are so solidified now that it must be covered in the mainstream media. I suspect it will meet resistance within some newsrooms though because Gary Weiss has a few "friends" at various publications, but just like what happened on Wikipedia, the evidence is so strong that it will eventually overcome.

In fact, I think that a book could be written on Gary Weiss and it might even sell pretty well. I would call it "Corrupting Influence: How one psychopathic and determined journalist spun a web of lies that spanned from Wall Street to the Press and to the Internet and the slouths that took him down."

Half the story is about Wikipedia and Overstock. I have found it entertaining from the sidelines and getting pieces of the story bit by bit, but in book form with a proper narrative, it is likely to be even more compelling.

[Pumpkin Muffins]

Presumably, Crum's frantic efforts to remove the link were because in passing it referenced LindaMack=SlimVirgin, and had nothing to do with Crum's touted "BLP concerns".

I really don't understand that Crum character. It's like he's under some kind of spell to protect his mistress at all costs. His devotion knows no bounds.

Tobias and Wordbomb note on Wikiback that it acceptable to remove any reference to Gary Weiss or Linda Mack, yet one can link to Weiss's blog attacking Patrick Byrne at will. And someone like JzG can say what he likes about Judd Bagley on WP, and does.

http://www.wikback.com/forums/ubbthreads.p...r=3233#Post3233

Crum isn't very bright as the following posts note; his/her efforts to suppress the link only make it more enticing - the curious and intelligent will get the link from history and read it. I'm waiting to see if it will be oversited, that would be interesting.

... yet one can link to Weiss's blog attacking Patrick Byrne at will ... This hypocrisy is stunning. I've thought about this a lot and am at a loss how any rational person could accept it. I think it's a combination of stupidity, youth, arrogance and toeing the line; a manifestation of power whereby people who 'see things the right way' are rewarded with acceptance and thoes who don't are punished with rejection. It's remarkable what the human mind can rationalize, given the right levers. Young people who fall into this mindset are forgivable, they probably don't fully understand it yet. But the older editors? only stupidity or corruption can explain it.

[Kato]

Young people who fall into this mindset are forgivable, they probably don't fully understand it yet. But the older editors? only stupidity or corruption can explain it.

It seems to vary. In the case of people like GeorgeWilliamHerbert or MONGO, you'd have to put it down to ignorance and naivety. With Slim and Jayjg, they are corrupt manipulators who have a purpose regarding content. The most interesting is JzG. He has hinted of personal problems, and I suspect he suffers from obsessive disorders that cloud his judgment wherever he is. He is a victim, who has been used by the likes of Jimbo Wales. Wales should have taken him aside long ago rather than encourage his deterioration, and Guy's jeering amen-corner at WP have done nothing to help him.

[Somey]

Actually, the "Scaramouche Psychopath" blog entry was already mentioned in this post by Mr. Piperdown, but hey, the more the merrier! Who knows, maybe this will convince Piperdown to choose more descriptive thread names with fewer major-league baseball references.

Also, I'm not comfortable with these continued references to Weiss as a "psychopath." He's obviously an extremely cynical and easiily-angered guy, who believes the end justifies the means and that "the system" is worthless when it comes to achieving the ends he'd prefer to see (such as the complete destruction of Overstock.com, apparently). But this is someone who has studied corporate corruption very closely, and is (putatively) one of the most knowledgeable people in the US regarding organized-crime infiltration of the financial markets. One has to ASSume that he simply doesn't trust the SEC and various other authorities to deal with what he sees as an ongoing "white-collar crimewave," and his conclusion is that the only way to fight back is with equally dirty tactics - including setting up multiple identities on the internet to give himself the illusion of popular support, and then lying about it. That's bad, and to some extent misguided and wrong, but it doesn't make him a psychopath.

I suspect he sees himself as some sort of "anti-hero," or at least that seems to be the point of his self-promotional activities. The problem with that role, though, is that you have to have a very thick skin to deal with those who focus on the "anti-" part more than the "hero" part, and he doesn't seem to have that.

[One]

Crum isn't very bright as the following posts note; his/her efforts to suppress the link only make it more enticing - the curious and intelligent will get the link from history and read it. I'm waiting to see if it will be oversited, that would be interesting.

Yes, that's right. The link had been up for over a day, and no one found it very remarkable. I doubt any trusted admins clicked on it except GWH (and I think even he only gave it a cursory look).

And I doubt this could be oversighted. They would have to take out about 40 revisions, including many where other parties are blissfully adding evidence. Plus, basically no one agrees with Crum's absurd take on BLP, as witnessed by the fact that GWH's links remain unmolested by the arbs and clerks.

[SenseMaker]

Actually, the "Scaramouche Psychopath" blog entry was already mentioned in this post by Mr. Piperdown, but hey, the more the merrier! Who knows, maybe this will convince Piperdown to choose more descriptive thread names with fewer major-league baseball references.

Also, I'm not comfortable with these continued references to Weiss as a "psychopath." He's obviously an extremely cynical and easiily-angered guy, who believes the end justifies the means and that "the system" is worthless when it comes to achieving the ends he'd prefer to see (such as the complete destruction of Overstock.com, apparently). But this is someone who has studied corporate corruption very closely, and is (putatively) one of the most knowledgeable people in the US regarding organized-crime infiltration of the financial markets. One has to ASSume that he simply doesn't trust the SEC and various other authorities to deal with what he sees as an ongoing "white-collar crimewave," and his conclusion is that the only way to fight back is with equally dirty tactics - including setting up multiple identities on the internet to give himself the illusion of popular support, and then lying about it. That's bad, and to some extent misguided and wrong, but it doesn't make him a psychopath.

I suspect he sees himself as some sort of "anti-hero," or at least that seems to be the point of his self-promotional activities. The problem with that role, though, is that you have to have a very thick skin to deal with those who focus on the "anti-" part more than the "hero" part, and he doesn't seem to have that.

I almost always agree with you Somey, but the more I've read about Gary Weiss suggests that he has a unique psychological make-up. The key indicator that something is going on here more than just a simple anti-hero stance is his membership in the Narcisstic Personality Disorder email list. I suspect that he displays the features of this "disorder." This means that he thinks that he is above others, a lot above others. If you think you are greatly superior to others, then any means because easier to justify because the little people don't matter. This means that he can rationalize to himself lying to little people and effectively acting as a sociopath in relation to them. Weiss is pretty incompetent thus I think he does suffer from something like Narcissistic Personality Disorder because otherwise if he was a good as he thinks, we would never have uncovered what he has been up to.

[wikiwhistle]

I really don't understand that Crum character. It's like he's under some kind of spell to protect his mistress at all costs. His devotion knows no bounds.

I was thinking this just the other day. Maybe someone has run a checkuser at some point and they're not the same person?

Assuming they're not the same person, he's a man and she's a woman. Well, Slim goes on about 'stalking' a lot but this bloke is following her around constantly on wiki.

If it were me (I'm female) I'd be creeped out by a bloke doing that to me (assuming she isn't interested in him).

Crum must have a crush on her (I'm not joking, he clearly has an obsession with her of some kind or another, whether romantic or not.) She should either go out with him, or tell him to cool it, otherwise she is taking advantage of his feelings so she has someone to do what she wants. Mind you, this is someone who's chosen the name "SlimVirgin." (of course she's entitled to use whatever name she wants, but it's not a name a lot of women would choose for a supposedly intellectual-type site like wiki- not, arguably, principally a dating site.)

Seriously, I would just have emailed him and got him to cool it if it were me- but then I'm not a politician/strategist or whatever that uses people's behaviour for my own purposes.

I would not feel comfortable with anyone except my fiance paying me that amount of attention, spending that much time running round after me or however you'd describe it. I'd feel I was leading them on, or more importantly, not being firm with them and setting boundaries.

Does that make sense?

[Piperdown]

I really don't understand that Crum character. It's like he's under some kind of spell to protect his mistress at all costs. His devotion knows no bounds.

I was thinking this just the other day. Maybe someone has run a checkuser at some point and they're not the same person?

Assuming they're not the same person, he's a man and she's a woman. Well, Slim goes on about 'stalking' a lot but this bloke is following her around constantly on wiki.

If it were me (I'm female) I'd be creeped out by a bloke doing that to me (assuming she isn't interested in him).

Crum must have a crush on her (I'm not joking, he clearly has an obsession with her of some kind or another, whether romantic or not.) She should either go out with him, or tell him to cool it, otherwise she is taking advantage of his feelings so she has someone to do what she wants. Mind you, this is someone who's chosen the name "SlimVirgin." (of course she's entitled to use whatever name she wants, but it's not a name a lot of women would choose for a supposedly intellectual-type site like wiki- not, arguably, principally a dating site.)

Seriously, I would just have emailed him and got him to cool it if it were me- but then I'm not a politician/strategist or whatever that uses people's behaviour for my own purposes.

I would not feel comfortable with anyone except my fiance paying me that amount of attention, spending that much time running round after me or however you'd describe it. I'd feel I was leading them on, or more importantly, not being firm with them and setting boundaries.

Does that make sense?

uh-oh, Slimmy's going to copy that to a complaint on W-P, appeal to Alison's fellowship of the wikisistahood, and put you in the Sexist Ogre doghouse.

Just for pointing out what everyone else is thinking, lol.

Crum is a SPA account. Slimmy's Personal Assistant.

Jayjg got booted out of the job after the Oversight Affair de Salinger, and the "You Got My Back?" Oopsiedaisy to the Wikien-l list.

Keystone Cops, all.