AFD/Judd Bagley (2nd nomination) Options

[tarantino]

Phil Sandifer recreated Judd Bagley today, presumably in reaction to yesterday's discussions on ANI. Two minutes later, it was nominated for deletion. Early talk is leaning to redirecting and merging into Overstock.com.

Better get those sockpuppets warmed up!

[Kato]

Phil Sandifer recreated Judd Bagley today, presumably in reaction to yesterday's discussions on ANI.

Yet another hideous blunder by the wikipedia elite for us to mull over at our leisure.

They do our work for us! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[blissyu2]

Looks like a no-consensus or keep, kept either way.

[thekohser]

Phil Sandifer recreated Judd Bagley today, presumably in reaction to yesterday's discussions on ANI. Two minutes later, it was nominated for deletion. Early talk is leaning to redirecting and merging into Overstock.com.

Better get those sockpuppets warmed up!

Three funny edits were made by some fairly witty anonymous IP, beginning here.

Greg

[blissyu2]

yes very good. Final version here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=155960747

He became controversial for his running of the website that attacked attacks on critics of Overstock.com and its chief executive officer, [[Patrick M. Byrne]].

changed to:

He became controversial for his running of the website that attacked attacks attacking those who attacked critics who were attacking those who attacked attackers of Overstock.com and its chief executive officer, [[Patrick M. Byrne]].

Attacked attacks attacking those who attacked critics who were attacking those who attacked attackers. lol.

[WordBomb]

Looks like a no-consensus or keep, kept either way.

I'm trying to figure out which of the two acts (the creation of an article on me vs. the indefbanning of all 660 Overstock.com employees) is intended as payback for what happened to SlimVirgin, and which is done out of spite.

I knew nothing of David Gerard until last week when a dozen people forwarded him calling what he apparently presumed to be me a "fuc*wit." Based on that and what I've learned since, I'm guessing he's driven overwhelmingly by spite...in many activities.

He did stop by AntiSocialMedia.net for what was likely his first time ever today. So that was good of him to do.

Phil Sandifer is someone else I've previously been unaware of. By process of elimination, I assume he's the one tasked with executing payback. However based on the little I've seen of my article, he's being more principled than I might have guessed, which is why Gary Weiss is supporting deletion.

Any insights on Sandifer?

Also, how is it, practically speaking, that an article is created and then nominated for deletion within two minutes by yet another editor I've never heard of???

This post has been edited by WordBomb:

[thekohser]

yes very good. Final version here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=155960747

He became controversial for his running of the website that attacked attacks on critics of Overstock.com and its chief executive officer, [[Patrick M. Byrne]].

changed to:

He became controversial for his running of the website that attacked attacks attacking those who attacked critics who were attacking those who attacked attackers of Overstock.com and its chief executive officer, [[Patrick M. Byrne]].

Attacked attacks attacking those who attacked critics who were attacking those who attacked attackers. lol.

Another good one here. This IP address is one funny guy.

Greg

[blissyu2]

We know about Phil Sandifer:

* He used to go by the name Snowspinner.
* [removing gratuitous personal insults - Guy]
* Snowspinner writes fiction on a blog he has on Live Journal called Pulp Decarum. He doesn't have readily available disclaimers, and likes people to not be quite sure if its true or not. One article from 3 years ago had him saying how he was a serial killer. It was a joke of course, and when he was investigated for 10 actual murders at his university, he claimed police harassment, and now claims to be the victim of cyber stalking by Lir from Wikipedia Review, even though Orthagonal was the one who called the police and wrote the WR post.
* Snowspinner is a PhD student, who uses his influence at Wikipedia to get contacts with people such as Cory Doctorow, and agrees to have uber positive articles on them in return for favours from them in real life (for example Cory Doctorow ran the whole "police harassment" crap for Snowspinner)
* Snowspinner is a perfect example of someone behaving in a way that would get anyone else banned, but because he's an administrator he is applauded for it.
* We can be quite certain that Snowspinner has no major bias or anything like that, no secret agenda, he is just in it for kicks, and he gets favours out of it.

Snowspinner is undoubtedly more abusive than SlimVirgin, however one difference is that Snowspinner's power isn't a secret, and he doesn't manipulate others to do his dirty work. He does it all himself.

For a similar case, see Raul654.

[WordBomb]

One article from 3 years ago had him saying how he was a serial killer. It was a joke of course, and when he was investigated for 10 actual murders at his university, he claimed police harassment...

Oh yeah! I remember reading about that...long before I ever got sucked into this, the 9.5th Ring of Hell.

Man...if someone would have told me way back then that the goof who got in that serial killer trouble would one day create the WP article on me...wow...I would have quit whatever I was doing at that moment and started doing the exact opposite. I'd be an architect or working at a carwash or something much more meaningful than this.

[dtobias]

You shouldn't attack Sandifer... he's the one lately taking up the cause of trying to finally rid Wikipedia of that silly BADSITES policy. He's even started an ArbCom case on it.

[blissyu2]

Yes, Snowspinner really likes Wikipedia Review. He's actually a bit pissed off that this isn't more of an attack site.

[BobbyBombastic]

The creation of the Judd Bagley seems to be a good old fashioned first class trolling that was done in concert with the Overstock IP blockings. That's how it appears to me, superficially at least. Additionally, it is more proof that Wikipedia should not even endeavor to call itself an encyclopedia or attempt to live up to a standard they cannot reach.

Kato is right, they do our work for us. And I wouldn't send any praise Phil's way for the BADSITES thing, he is only doing something now because it is interfering with his troll attempt. The BADSITES supporters have run amuck in various forms since April (i think?), and while it seems to be a bad idea to a majority, the same majority sit on their fucking hands and do nothing, until it effects their personal corner of Jimbo's Bag O'Trivia.

Moreover, I'd be sort of sad to see BADSITES go, as it is a fine example of the "project perversion" that the Wikipedia community has been committing, or allowing to happen, for a while. It's a nice thing to point at to illustrate the dysfunction.

[everyking]

What a joke. There are obviously ulterior motives here, because the article is being supported by several deletionists. This has a tiny fraction of the notability of some of the (quite worthwhile) things they'd happily vote to delete. Disgusting.

[Somey]

You shouldn't attack Sandifer... he's the one lately taking up the cause of trying to finally rid Wikipedia of that silly BADSITES policy. He's even started an ArbCom case on it.

BADSITES isn't exactly bad for business around here, though... That's probably why ol' Snowie wants to get rid of it!

In fact, that's probably why the smarter ones want to delete the Bagley bio - that sort of thing draws attention to ASM, the general controversy, and the overall embarrassment to Wikipedia a hell of lot better than Mr. Wordbomb's efforts alone.

[LamontStormstar]

Nowhere in the Judd Bagley article does it link to nor even mention the name of the site, antisocialmedia.net. I think antisocialmedia.net is more notable than the writer of it.

Yes, Snowspinner really likes Wikipedia Review. He's actually a bit pissed off that this isn't more of an attack site.

Why would he feel that way if he hates what WR stands for?


Back to subject..

Question is: Does WordBomb his article kept or not?


Vote tally

Deletes (or delete by merge/redirect with no option to keep thrown in)
------------------
Rambutan
JzG
Bastique
Samiharris
Crum375
Mantanmoreland
Thatcher131
ElinorD
Everyking
Hu12
WAS 4.250


Keep (or keep/merge)
---------------------------
Phil Sandifer
David Gerard
The Epopt
Raul654
MichaelLinnear




Since Wikipedia is always a vote, it looks like it'll get deleted.

Anyone care to analyze how the cabals are doing by the way people voted?

[WordBomb]

Nowhere in the Judd Bagley article does it link to nor even mention the name of the site, antisocialmedia.net. I think antisocialmedia.net is more notable than the writer of it.

Let's see...I'm trying to figure out how to take that. Um...after much deliberation, I choose to take it as a compliment. Thanks!

Question is: Does WordBomb his article kept or not?

As a matter of principle, I want it deleted. But as a matter of another sort of principle, I don't.

And I'd like to have it include multiple quotes from Gary Weiss. That's because I figure if Weiss quotes are acceptable in my article, then quotes by me must be acceptable in his.

The best Weiss can do is repeatedly scream that I'm a liar and a "nauseating spectacle." Weiss knows that I, on the other hand, have volumes of objective proof that he's a liar and an expectorating nautical. And I can prove that.

Oh yeah, I also have very recent email from Fred Bauder confirming that Weiss is Mantanmoreland. Good thing I kept a record of all Weiss's sweaty denials.

[WordBomb]

Deletes (or delete by merge/redirect with no option to keep thrown in)
------------------
Rambutan
JzG
Bastique
Samiharris
Crum375
Mantanmoreland

I wish someone out there with CheckUser would finally make it official that Samiharris is a Mantanmoreland sock. Not that it would make any difference. Weiss has immunity, you may recall.

[blissyu2]

Snowspinner still has an account here, and was one of the first Wikipedia admins to join here, on the old site. Snowspinner welcomed a site that attacked and lampooned Wikipedia, and encouraged it. He got upset when we started to actually criticise. But still he was quite happy with us up until the whole thing with his blog. He used to love it when we'd bash him, and he'd bash us back. Indeed, I think that Snowspinner still probably supports WR overall. I don't think that he ever approved of BADSITES. Similarly with David Gerard and Ambi. They love for insults to be thrown around, but I think that they are a bit upset that we make people register real e-mail accounts, don't allow guests, and try to focus far too much on actual issues, rather than just being a big slanging match.

[LamontStormstar]

Oh yeah, I also have very recent email from Fred Bauder confirming that Weiss is Mantanmoreland. Good thing I kept a record of all Weiss's sweaty denials.

Would it be out of line or not to post it?

I wish someone out there with CheckUser would finally make it official that Samiharris is a Mantanmoreland sock. Not that it would make any difference. Weiss has immunity, you may recall.

Have either of their IPs slipped? I heard Weiss may be in New York.

Snowspinner still has an account here, and was one of the first Wikipedia admins to join here, on the old site. Snowspinner welcomed a site that attacked and lampooned Wikipedia, and encouraged it. He got upset when we started to actually criticise. But still he was quite happy with us up until the whole thing with his blog. He used to love it when we'd bash him, and he'd bash us back. Indeed, I think that Snowspinner still probably supports WR overall. I don't think that he ever approved of BADSITES. Similarly with David Gerard and Ambi. They love for insults to be thrown around, but I think that they are a bit upset that we make people register real e-mail accounts, don't allow guests, and try to focus far too much on actual issues, rather than just being a big slanging match.

So those three are on Encyclopedia Dramatica then?

[JohnA]

He became controversial for his running of the website that attacked attacks attacking those who attacked critics who were attacking those who attacked attackers of Overstock.com and its chief executive officer, [[Patrick M. Byrne]]. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[WordBomb]

Oh yeah, I also have very recent email from Fred Bauder confirming that Weiss is Mantanmoreland. Good thing I kept a record of all Weiss's sweaty denials.

Would it be out of line or not to post it?

Well I hadn't intended to. I'd been holding out hope that after SlimVirgin left I might be able to patch things up with the ArbCom but in the same email Fred also eliminated any possibility of that. But because his email was copied to the entire ArbCom, I suppose it's no longer private communication and I wouldn't be betraying anybody's trust by posting is here or anywhere for that matter.

Maybe what I'll do is start a new thread with my initial outreach to them, followed by the subsequent exchange in toto, and you'll be able to spot the portion I've made reference to without me putting it up out of context.

Have either of their IPs slipped? I heard Weiss may be in New York.

Let's put it this way...I've known Gary's IP pretty much non-stop for going on two years. Lately he's getting inventive with South American and European proxies, but in some ways that just makes his easier to spot.

Here's a rundown I prepared for some colleagues in April that was current at that time. As you'll see, Gary is in NYC on Verizon DSL in the NY325 pool.

[LamontStormstar]

Oh yeah, I also have very recent email from Fred Bauder confirming that Weiss is Mantanmoreland. Good thing I kept a record of all Weiss's sweaty denials.

Would it be out of line or not to post it?

Well I hadn't intended to. I'd been holding out hope that after SlimVirgin left I might be able to patch things up with the ArbCom but in the same email Fred also eliminated any possibility of that. But because his email was copied to the entire ArbCom, I suppose it's no longer private communication and I wouldn't be betraying anybody's trust by posting is here or anywhere for that matter.

I think your blog is the best place to post it to.

[WordBomb]

I think your blog is the best place to post it to.

I took your suggestion and have added the WordBomb Manifesto to AntiSocialMedia.net

The part about Weiss = Mantanmoreland appears near the bottom, in Fred Bauder's reply.

I'll sum it up for you here:

“Mantanmoreland did sockpuppet, got caught, was warned, and quit sockpuppeting… Likewise, there is conflict of interest in his editing…” Fred Bauder

[JohnA]

Great moments in Wikipedia #1028594:

I added this to the talk page:

Well done

Well done Phil Sandifer and Mantanweissland for doing their level best to further drive Wikipedia's reputation into the dirt with a biography of a living person consisting entirely of attacks on a person's character.

Yes of course Gary "Mantanmoreland" Weiss's own blog is a reputable source for information because Gary has shown such an incredible reputation for ethical journalistic behavior as antisocialmedia.net has detailed.

You people have no shame.--86.131.103.166 06:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

When the article was stubbed and protected by "Tom Harrison" someone else called "Samiharris" removed my talk page comment with the reason "removing personal attack" which sounds remarkably like Slimvirgin when removing any criticism of Weiss elsewhere.

Oh and David Gerard steps in to make absolutely sure that my BT Internet 2-day leased IP address is properly chastised:

You are not blocked from reading pages, only from editing them.
If you have just clicked a red link, it means you were blocked from starting a new page as no article on that topic exists yet.
You have been blocked from editing.
86.131.103.166 (your account, your IP address or a range of addresses) was blocked by David Gerard for the following reason (see our blocking policy):
This IP address has been blocked because it is believed to be an open proxy or zombie computer. To prevent abuse, editing from these proxies is currently prohibited. If your ISP has misconfigured their proxy, you can try bypassing it by logging into Wikimedia's secure gateway at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/. For more information about open proxies and what you can do, please see the WikiProject on open proxies.

(Multi-RBL lookup • Sandbox test edit)
: Apparent open proxy being abused by Judd Bagley of overstock.com

Your IP address is 86.131.103.166, and your block has been set to expire: indefinite.

So there we have it. Apparently Judd Bagley is stealing into my study here in England to write perfectly justifiable comment on their abusive behavior.

How incredibly mature David Gerard is. A real credit to Wikipedia.

[JohnA]

And here's the unblock request:

It is traditional even on Wikipedia, to provide evidence of "an open proxy" or that it was being abused by "Judd Bagley"

Rather than petulantly indefinitely banning an IP address because someone criticized two well known editors for constructing and maintaining a BLP consisting entirely of personal attacks. The only abuse was by Sandifer and Gerard.

So will David Gerard be providing any evidence of this "open proxy" or will he stop this infantile behavior because another admin shut down the attack BLP?

This post has been edited by JohnA:

[guy]

I really thought that whatever David Gerard's faults are, he was competent to check whethr an IP is an open proxy.

[Unrepentant Vandal]

Why don't you just reboot your router?

[Nathan]

To get another IP, you mean? If you're using a static IP or a cable ISP who ties IP address assignments to your MAC address, that's not going to do a lot of good.

I can reboot mine until Cedric's cat(s) come home and it's not going to help.

[Unrepentant Vandal]

To get another IP, you mean? If you're using a static IP or a cable ISP who ties IP address assignments to your MAC address, that's not going to do a lot of good.

I can reboot mine until Cedric's cat(s) come home and it's not going to help.

Yup, but from my understanding of JohnA's post his is dynamic.

[blissyu2]

So those three are on Encyclopedia Dramatica then?

Not under their regular name at least.

[LamontStormstar]

I think your blog is the best place to post it to.

I took your suggestion and have added the WordBomb Manifesto to AntiSocialMedia.net

The part about Weiss = Mantanmoreland appears near the bottom, in Fred Bauder's reply.

I'll sum it up for you here:

“Mantanmoreland did sockpuppet, got caught, was warned, and quit sockpuppeting… Likewise, there is conflict of interest in his editing…” Fred Bauder

Fred Bauder claims Gary Weiss quit sockpuppetting. Can you find evidence that Weiss still sockpuppets?

[everyking]

Thinking this over, I do think Bagley could warrant an article. There are a few good press sources. The problem is that this article was created simply as an attack piece, probably meant to troll Bagley. Phil Sandifer, who created this article, does not ordinarily write any actual content. He spends his time harassing people and trying to enforce his own questionable views on policy. Yet Phil created this article: it may be more content than he's ever written in his previous three years on Wikipedia. I cannot believe that someone who never writes article content would suddenly dive in to write an article that he knows will be controversial for any good faith reason--especially not when it reads like an attack piece. He did it to troll (possibly other Wikipedians as much as Bagley), or to fling shit back at Bagley.

Phil isn't even a real inclusionist. He once insisted that information from major media sources such as the NYT was not worth including in an article I'd written. I'm convinced that his occasional shows of inclusionism are just another form of his harassment campaigns: he's a deletionist when he can use that to harass, and he's an inclusionist when he can use that to harass.

If there's going to be an article on Bagley, it should be started from scratch with some basis in neutrality and honesty.

[LamontStormstar]

Phil Sandifer, who created this article, does not ordinarily write any actual content. He spends his time harassing people and trying to enforce his own questionable views on policy. Yet Phil created this article: it may be more content than he's ever written in his previous three years on Wikipedia. I cannot believe that someone who never writes article content would suddenly dive in to write an article that he knows will be controversial for any good faith reason

What about that thing he wrote in college where he said he wanted to kill everyone there and the police came by?

[everyking]

Phil Sandifer, who created this article, does not ordinarily write any actual content. He spends his time harassing people and trying to enforce his own questionable views on policy. Yet Phil created this article: it may be more content than he's ever written in his previous three years on Wikipedia. I cannot believe that someone who never writes article content would suddenly dive in to write an article that he knows will be controversial for any good faith reason

What about that thing he wrote in college where he said he wanted to kill everyone there and the police came by?

I'm not sure if you're joking, but that's not quite what happened. He wrote a short story on his blog about murdering a homeless man, and someone called the university expressing concern about it (he teaches there). He refused to cooperate with the campus police and eventually they dropped the issue.

[WordBomb]

“Mantanmoreland did sockpuppet, got caught, was warned, and quit sockpuppeting… Likewise, there is conflict of interest in his editing…” Fred Bauder

Fred Bauder claims Gary Weiss quit sockpuppetting. Can you find evidence that Weiss still sockpuppets?

Fred was referring to the group of socks Weiss was using at the time: Tomstoner, Lastexit and Doright (there were others, but we didn't find them until later).

Today he uses Samiharris, and we know that thanks to two slip-ups he made. I'm slowly working on a piece tying them together now, and patiently looking for more. At this point, I'm not sure Checkuser would work, since Weiss has grown ultra-paranoid about his IP.

[LamontStormstar]

I didn't remember what Snowspinner wrote in the story, just something about killing lots of people and that's it.



What are the two slip-ups Samiharris has made?

Other than the fact that he edits overstock.com, stuff about you, Gary Weiss, naked short selling, hedge fund, Patrick M. Byrne‎, type stuff most of all?

For his user talk edits

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=...&year=&month=-1

He......

Goes right to Jayjg whenever he wants something done and Jayjg does it like Jayjg is his personal servant. He also didn't contact Jayjg when Jayjg took his wikibreak. From these two accounts' strange interaction, it is likely that Gary Weiss and Jayjg know each other in real life.

He constantly talks to Mantanmoreland. Damn dude, is it now that all sockpuppets have to go around talking to each other? Of course, always agreeing with each other.

Fights with Piperdown‎, whoever that is.

This post has been edited by LamontStormstar:

[JohnA]

So Samiharris is yet another Weiss sockpuppet that he uses to delete all comments thst Weiss uses sockpuppets?

Incredible

Yes, I could change my IP address at a moment's notice. The question is whether David Gerard will stop throwing all of his toys out of the pram and stop blocking IP addresses indefinitely because they expressed a justified opinion that Sandifer, Weiss and Gerard are behaving like dicks.

Especially Gerard. Since I know Gerard is watching this I'll do this in big capitals:

DAVID GERARD: GROW THE FUCK UP

Or just be brave enough to face the real truth. Judd Bagley has taken over the entire 86.x.x.x subnet. I suggest you ban them all forthwith.

[Unrepentant Vandal]

Or just be brave enough to face the real truth. Judd Bagley has taken over the entire 86.x.x.x subnet. I suggest you ban them all forthwith.

Please don't, this would cause me some difficulty in my "work".

[JohnA]

Or just be brave enough to face the real truth. Judd Bagley has taken over the entire 86.x.x.x subnet. I suggest you ban them all forthwith.

Please don't, this would cause me some difficulty in my "work".

Quit it Judd. Your time is over (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

[LamontStormstar]

In the history of the article admin are wheel warring.

Tom harrison blanks and protects it per BLP

JzG taking his unending anger at JB196 out on WordBomb unprotects it

Phil Sandifer acting barmy goes and puts the article back up and then edit wars with someone who reverts him.

This post has been edited by LamontStormstar: