Ottava had a long talk with Adambro in IRC. At the end, they both consented to releasing it.
(03:53:17 PM) Ottava [~no@173-103-170-172.pools.spcsdns.net] entered the room.
(03:53:28 PM) Ottava: So... JWS, how are you? (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
(03:53:42 PM) JWSchmidt: I'm fine, how are you?
(03:53:48 PM) Ottava: I'm doing well
(03:53:56 PM) Ottava: What is the outcome you want from the recent dust up
(03:54:18 PM) JWSchmidt: well, I have an unblock request on my user talk page
(03:54:32 PM) Ottava: I think Abd might be a tad in over his head and would need his probationary period extended maybe a month or two
03:54:56 PM) Ottava: Oh, he complained when I told Moulton that if he didn't stay over on the Caprice page that I would block him ;/
(03:54:59 PM) Ottava: So
(03:55:09 PM) Ottava: I dont know if I can really say anything about unblocking you at the moment
(03:55:29 PM) JWSchmidt: why not?
(03:55:41 PM) Ottava: I could reduce your block to 24 hours, as I don't believe in admin blocking for more than 24 hours at a time without community involvement
(03:56:20 PM) Ottava: It wouldn't be an unblock, nor would me be responding to the legitimacy of the block or not
(03:56:36 PM) Ottava: Would that be fine? It would leave you open to another 24 hour block following the end of it
(03:56:42 PM) Ottava: Not from me, mind you
(03:57:13 PM) JWSchmidt: if you are trying to ease tensions and concerned that I'd be "disruptive" if unblocked, I'd agree to not edit for 24 hours
(03:57:29 PM) Ottava: Oh, I have no intention on paying attention enough to see if you are disruptive or not
(03:57:32 PM) Ottava: Im staying out of it
(03:57:52 PM) Ottava: Your 24 hour period from when Adambro blocked you would end in 3/4 hours
(03:58:03 PM) JWSchmidt: I'm saying, if you feel you would be risking your reputation, I'd try to help you by not editing
(03:58:17 PM) Ottava: I don't care about my reputation
(03:58:21 PM) JWSchmidt: ha ha
(03:58:24 PM) Ottava: I just don't believe that blocks longer than 24 hours can accomplish anything
(03:58:42 PM) Ottava: If there is repeated offense, block for 24 hours. If you think it doesnt stop anything, request from the community a longer block
(03:58:43 PM) JWSchmidt: I think the block tool is for vandals and such things
(03:59:52 PM) Ottava: Anyway, I'm just here to inform you that I will be capping it at 24 hours, wont be responding to any unblock request or saying if the block is good or not, and I would leave it open to Adambro or anyone else to reblock you for another 24 hour period if they think you deserve it. I wont be looking to see if you do or not
(04:00:19 PM) JWSchmidt: thanks for letting me know
(04:00:24 PM) Ottava: Wait, I was wrong, 24 hours will end in 2 hours
(04:01:20 PM) Ottava: I don't understand why people block for more than 24 hours, or why they think they need to do such a thing without any discussion
(04:01:24 PM) Ottava: It just inflames situations
(04:02:20 PM) JWSchmidt: I've been labeled as a "troll", so some people seem to feel that means I should be banned
(04:03:08 PM) Ottava: It happens
(04:03:09 PM) JWSchmidt: that it is a waste of time to talk to me
(04:03:31 PM) Ottava: I prefer "taking the piss" instead of the term trolling.
(04:03:45 PM) adambro_: Ottava: the block is the subject of a discussion at Wikiversity:Request custodian action, could you comment there as to your thoughts as opposed to simply unblocking
(04:04:07 PM) Ottava: Adambro - as I said, I am not opining on the correctness of the block nor am I going to
(04:04:07 PM) adambro_ is now known as adambro
(04:04:25 PM) JWSchmidt: I'm not familiar with "taking the piss" as an alternative to the term "trolling"
(04:04:34 PM) Ottava: And if he does something that you consider is a repeat offense, then if you block him for 24 hours again then thats you
(04:04:57 PM) Ottava: JWS - it is a Britishism
(04:05:02 PM) Ottava:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss(04:05:43 PM) JWSchmidt: I prefer this term: education
(04:05:44 PM) Ottava: Its the best way I could describe Moulton's actions as Caprice
(04:06:23 PM) adambro: so you're just adopting a blanket policy of changing all blocks to 24 hours?
(04:07:04 PM) JWSchmidt: Moulton uses unconvention educational methods
(04:07:06 PM) Ottava: Adambro - those without consensus, yes
(04:07:21 PM) Ottava: If there is an immediate problem, it will be resolved in 24 hours
(04:07:28 PM) Ottava: if there is a long lasting problem, it needs discussion
(04:07:46 PM) Ottava: As I said, you can reblock him for another 24 hours, and then after that for 24 hours, etc
(04:07:47 PM) adambro: how many times are we going to discuss the same issue?
(04:07:59 PM) Ottava: If you honestly believe he needs to be blocked, then you can take the 30 seconds to do it
(04:08:21 PM) adambro: that seems crazy
(04:08:22 PM) Ottava: Discuss the same issue? Well, if he is still around and we keep discussing it, then chances are that there is no consensus to indef
(04:09:00 PM) JWSchmidt: how many times are we going to discuss the same issue? <-- at Wikipedia some issues have been discussed, repeatedly, for years
(04:09:05 PM) adambro: the indef block is not a suggestion that he should be banned permanently, rather a suggestion that he should be blocked until a point at which the community has worked out how to deal with the issues
(04:09:22 PM) Ottava: Community consent comes first, not second
(04:09:35 PM) Ottava: Admin don't have the authority to defacto ban then ask if it was okay
(04:09:48 PM) adambro: who says?
(04:09:51 PM) JWSchmidt: I'd prefer to be able to deffend myself in any show trial featuring me
(04:09:53 PM) Ottava: And all people have the right to prove themselves, so, if he goes back to his ways after 24 hours, that jsut makes him look bad
(04:10:01 PM) Ottava: Adambro - the Community Review policy
(04:10:08 PM) Ottava: That is the only one with banning authority
(04:11:00 PM) adambro: I think you should discuss this policy of unblocking after 24 hours on wiki
(04:11:16 PM) Ottava: Both blocker and blockee need to prove their side was correct. If the blocker was right, then multiple repeated 24 hour blocks will show that the person needs to be banned and cannot be trusted. If the blockee shows that they don't do anything problematic, then there is no problem.
(04:11:39 PM) Ottava: Its been discussed here many times
(04:11:46 PM) adambro: here? on IRC?
(04:11:52 PM) Ottava: and on Wikiversity
(04:12:27 PM) Ottava: Plus, 24 hour blocks is the easiest way to ensure that blocker and blockee do not alienate each other
(04:12:40 PM) Ottava: we are a community, not a place that separates out individuals into tiny bands
(04:13:27 PM) Ottava: If you prefer, I can intervene as an admin and instead unblock, which would completely undermine your authority.
(04:13:32 PM) JWSchmidt: anti-vandal tools like the "block" butoon are not used at Wikiversity to end or prevent discussions, this is not Wikipedia
(04:13:38 PM) adambro: I'm just astonished that you would rather start playing around with 24 hour blocks than actually engage in discussion about the block where it is already been discussed by the community
(04:13:50 PM) Ottava: adambro, discussions come first, not second
(04:14:00 PM) Ottava: otherwise, they aren't discussions
(04:14:09 PM) adambro: Ottava: have you considered the problems with that I have highlighted in this case?
(04:14:31 PM) JWSchmidt: It seems that Adambro would prfer not to talk to me
(04:14:33 PM) adambro: I don't really think there is a one size fits all solution to every problem
(04:14:34 PM) Ottava: adambro, as I said, I will not intervene with the matter and get into specifics.
(04:14:48 PM) Ottava: But I can assure you that if I do, I will take my personal understanding and experience of JWS into consideration
(04:14:52 PM) adambro: you are intervening if you unblock, how isn't that intervening ??
(04:15:08 PM) Ottava: which, over 2 years, has had him criticize me thousands of times but not once to the point I thought he deserved to be blocked
(04:15:20 PM) Ottava: Reducing a block to 24 hours is not unblocking or overturning
(04:15:47 PM) adambro: still intervening though, seems particularly disruptive when it is already been discussed
(04:16:05 PM) Ottava: Leighblackall, Jtneill, and Abd are against your block
(04:16:12 PM) Ottava: Darkcode is undecided
(04:16:15 PM) Ottava: No one has come to support you
(04:16:28 PM) Ottava: Now, many people have expressed disatisfaction with the way you use ops
(04:16:35 PM) Ottava: So, you can listen to what I say and save face
(04:16:40 PM) Ottava: or it wont end too well for you
(04:16:54 PM) Ottava: 24 hour blocks only
(04:16:58 PM) Ottava: discussion for anything more
(04:17:01 PM) Ottava: Did I make myself clear?
(04:17:09 PM) adambro: excuse me?
(04:17:12 PM) Ottava: You heard me
(04:17:38 PM) Ottava: It will be far easier to remove you than it will be to block JWS for any lengthy period of time.
(04:17:47 PM) Ottava: If you want to put yourself against him, the door is right there waiting for you.
(04:18:01 PM) Ottava: Now, do you want to keep your ops, which will have you accept a limitation to 24 hour blocks without community discussion
(04:18:05 PM) Ottava: or do you want to be shown the door?
(04:18:21 PM) adambro: since when did you have the right to make these demands?
(04:18:32 PM) Ottava: You must be completely unobservant
(04:18:38 PM) Ottava: No wonder why you are disliked so heavily
(04:18:57 PM) adambro: I think you need to take a step back here.
(04:19:04 PM) Ottava: Adambro, the above is all you get
(04:19:10 PM) Ottava: You better make your choice
(04:19:18 PM) Ottava: Otherwise, we can start desysop proceedings
(04:19:23 PM) Ottava: and right now, I can count 11 votes against you
(04:20:02 PM) adambro: do you think there is a problem with JWS?
(04:20:24 PM) Ottava: There is no problem strong enough to warrant more than repeated 24 hour blocks based on individual incidents without community discussion.
(04:20:42 PM) Ottava: You want to trumpt the authority of an educational environment, poison the atmosphere, and show a complete disrespect to this community.
(04:20:46 PM) Ottava: No one has that right.
(04:21:33 PM) adambro: that isn't what I asked
(04:21:56 PM) Ottava: No, this is what I am telling you.
(04:22:01 PM) Ottava: You either accept a limit to 24 hour blocks only
(04:22:04 PM) Ottava: Or you will be removed
(04:22:08 PM) Ottava: did I make myself clear?
(04:23:05 PM) Ottava: I'm waiting for an answer.
(04:26:31 PM) adambro: so, I think I've gathered that you aren't bothered about JWS as long as he is only targeting me because of your personal opinion of me. is my understanding correct?
(04:26:48 PM) Guest34739 [~no@68-245-239-90.pools.spcsdns.net] entered the room.
(04:26:53 PM) Guest34739: Sorry, disconnected
(04:27:21 PM) Guest34739: You either accept a limit to 24 hour blocks only or you will be removed.
(04:27:28 PM) Ottava left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
(04:27:37 PM) Guest34739 is now known as Ottava
(04:27:44 PM) adambro: quit the threats thanks.
(04:28:09 PM) Ottava: Adambro, it is a promise
(04:28:17 PM) Ottava: Your actions have been disliked by most of the community
(04:28:23 PM) Ottava: your personality has been disliked by most of the community
(04:28:30 PM) Ottava: your attitude is detrimental to an educational environment
(04:28:34 PM) Ottava: and you have no background in that
(04:28:49 PM) Ottava: your actions and attitude towards the -founder- of Wikiversity has shown yourself to not grasp common sense
(04:28:55 PM) Ottava: and your desire to put yourself above discussion is troubling
(04:29:01 PM) adambro: ironic
(04:29:10 PM) Ottava: Stop with the games.
(04:29:16 PM) Ottava: You are acting like a damn child
(04:29:29 PM) Ottava: If you aren't going to take this serious, then I will put up the proceedings now.
(04:29:51 PM) adambro: so its okay to implement a 24 block blanket policy without discussion but not to (AGF, remember that?), try to deal with a ongoing problem
(04:30:08 PM) Ottava: You aren't dealing with any problems
(04:30:17 PM) Ottava: You are blocking people and -causing- problems
(04:30:25 PM) Ottava: You don't understand how poisonous your actions and behavior are
(04:30:30 PM) Ottava: We dealt with JWS for two years
(04:30:37 PM) Ottava: it wasn't until you got involved that it got so out of hand
(04:30:51 PM) Ottava: -You- are the one responsible for that
(04:31:04 PM) adambro: erm, and Moulton? my fault? I'm not even convinced, might need to check your dates
(04:31:07 PM) Ottava: And the fact that you don't recognize it nor recognize the need to stop with the childish bullshit
(04:31:09 PM) Ottava: that is a serious problem
(04:31:21 PM) Ottava: Moulton and JWS are two very different people
(04:31:24 PM) Ottava: Don't play that game
(04:31:29 PM) adambro: maybe, JWS was write after all, perhaps we should publish IRC logs on Wiki
(04:31:51 PM) Ottava: I have no problem with others of the community seeing what I stated as I already talked to them about your removal dating back two months
(04:31:51 PM) darkcode: <Ottava> Your actions have been disliked by most of the community
(04:32:00 PM) adambro: I would be quite happy for all my discussions on IRC to be published, Ottava, how about you?
(04:32:02 PM) darkcode: you can't count my undecided as not disliking what he did
(04:32:10 PM) Ottava: darkcode - you aren't most (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
(04:32:27 PM) Ottava: Adambro, if you paid attention you will see that I already stated I had no problem with it.
(04:32:38 PM) Ottava: You do know that the channel is logged, right?
(04:32:45 PM) Ottava: And that it is sent to many people who aren't in here, right?
(04:33:35 PM) adambro: perhaps we do need Moulton to teach us all about ethics...
(04:33:45 PM) darkcode: I never said I was, just you making it sound like he's alone ;p
(04:33:56 PM) Ottava: Adambro, I am an ethicist, Moulton is not.
(04:34:10 PM) adambro: you don't care about ethical conduct ?
(04:34:23 PM) Ottava: Adambro, do you know why I was brought onto Wikipedia?
(04:34:28 PM) Ottava: Because of my ethicist background
(04:34:46 PM) adambro: where are those ethics now?
(04:35:00 PM) Ottava: It is unethical to block for more than 24 hours and demand discussion after
(04:35:15 PM) Ottava: It is also unethical for you to continue your fighting with JWS
(04:35:21 PM) adambro: and to make threats? or do ethics not apply when inconvenient?
(04:35:40 PM) Ottava: As I said, it was a promise. And people who are acting like you need to know the ramification of their actions.
(04:35:49 PM) Ottava: If you are unwilling to accept 24 hour blocks, then that is a problem with you.
(04:36:04 PM) adambro: what is wrong with proposing that as a policy?
(04:36:17 PM) Ottava: Because this deals just with you
(04:36:19 PM) Ottava: And your behavior
(04:36:22 PM) adambro: I am not going to feel compelled to obey you in this way
(04:36:25 PM) Ottava: It is your chance for you to keep your ops
(04:36:35 PM) adambro: I don't crave ops
(04:36:47 PM) Ottava: Is that your excuse for abusing them?
(04:36:47 PM) adambro: if I loose my ops whilst maintaining my principles then fair enough
(04:36:53 PM) Ottava: You don't have principles
(04:36:59 PM) Ottava: You fought nastily with others on Wikiversity
(04:37:14 PM) Ottava: You have no right to do that when holding a position of authority
(04:38:52 PM) Ottava: Right now there are no supporters for your block.
(04:39:20 PM) adambro: well, as I say, I am not going to feel compelled to accept your threats, if you wish than propose my rights are removed then you better go ahead. like I say, I am more interested in always trying to do what I think is the right thing than trying to maintain my rights
(04:39:49 PM) Ottava: If you wanted to do the right thing then you failed a long time ago. Now you are just trying to justify your own behavior for your pride.
(04:39:50 PM) darkcode: again don't count me as not supporting his block
(04:40:00 PM) Ottava: Darkocode - still, one person (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
(04:40:13 PM) darkcode: undecided goes both ways you know ;p
(04:40:20 PM) Ottava: okay, so, 3.5 to .5 (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
(04:40:24 PM) adambro: Ottava: for your reference, "A threat is an act of coercion wherein an act is proposed to elicit a negative response"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threat04:40:52 PM) Ottava: Adambro, there is no negative response to be elicited. There is a positive response for you to accept a limitation to your abilities for the good of everyone.
(04:40:56 PM) Ottava: And it would be in your best interest.
(04:41:09 PM) Ottava: You overstepped your authority and if you don't recognize that, that is a problem
(04:41:29 PM) adambro: I will continue to do what I have always done on WV, try to help the project. I'm sorry but your threats don't work on me.
(04:43:54 PM) Ottava: Adambro, if you wanted to help the project, you would not be overriding the project
(04:44:23 PM) adambro: there is a discussion ongoing, I will respect the outcome of that discussion
(04:44:44 PM) Ottava: If that is how you wish to be
(04:44:57 PM) adambro: that is exactly how I wish it to be.
(04:45:15 PM) darkcode: yes let the discussion finish, have enough interruption mid way going around, don't need more
(04:45:55 PM) Ottava: JWS, based on community consensus, you are being unblocked
(04:46:06 PM) JWSchmidt: thanks
(04:46:31 PM) adambro: well I'm glad to hear that we are making decisions based upon discussion, not just blanket unwritten rules about 24 hour blocks
(04:47:11 PM) adambro: I trust there wasn't a CoI in your unblock
(04:48:01 PM) darkcode: there was
(04:48:03 PM) Ottava: The conflict of interest was in your block
(04:48:13 PM) Ottava: As you had extensive fighting with JWS
(04:48:21 PM) Ottava: JWS has attacked me many times, but not once did I fight with him
(04:48:23 PM) Ottava: or attack him
(04:48:26 PM) Ottava: or criticize him
(04:48:35 PM) Ottava: That is not what administrators do
(04:48:38 PM) adambro: when have I attacked him?
(04:48:57 PM) Ottava: Do you want specifics or would a link to your special:contribs be enough?
(04:49:01 PM) adambro: as JWS would say, please list all those instances so we can discuss them
(04:49:51 PM) adambro: I'll happily explain why I chose to do anything I've done on WV. My talk page is always open for constructive discussions
(04:50:15 PM) Ottava: I'd have reverted back in the IP edits Adambro removed, because JWS obviously prefers that the edits remain. When deep conflicts arise, it's important for custodians to step back from individual action and seek community support. In an emergency, any of us can act. There was no emergency here. --Abd 15:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
(04:50:20 PM) Ottava: I'm not the only one who recognizesz it
(04:50:26 PM) Ottava: And that was just one instance
(04:50:36 PM) adambro: how is that an attack on JWS?
(04:50:58 PM) adambro: that is me trying to enforce a block which the community hasn't concluded should be overturned
(04:51:02 PM) Ottava: It was a statement of your conflict of interest with one example
(04:51:06 PM) Ottava: Now, JWS -
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Community_Review(04:51:19 PM) Ottava: I ask for you to start the proceedings on yourself and open yourself for community review
(04:51:26 PM) adambro: a CoI *after* I'd blocked him? hmm....
(04:51:28 PM) Ottava: I ask because 3 people have directly stated a desire for that
(04:51:58 PM) Ottava: I implore you that when phrasing the request, you are brief, do not attack others, and be willing to accept any criticism
(04:52:16 PM) JWSchmidt: Ottava: I ask for you to start the proceedings on yourself and open yourself for community review <-- are you talking to me?
(04:53:00 PM) Ottava: yes
(04:53:06 PM) Ottava: Everything after Now JWS (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
(04:53:32 PM) JWSchmidt: maybe you could draft the statement that you are thnking of
(04:53:34 PM) darkcode: it should be mentioned on the Colloquium as well per policy
(04:54:08 PM) Ottava: JWS - I also ask for you to provide some suggestions on what kind of actions or probations could be put in place to ease concerns that people have given about your previous behavior
(04:54:11 PM) Ottava: darkcode - getting there
(04:54:13 PM) adambro: Ottava: so, to clarify, at what point shall I expect you will propose my admin rights are removed?
(04:54:41 PM) Ottava: adambro, if you are so eager for it, I can drop everything else I am trying to do to accomodate you
(04:55:09 PM) adambro: well, if you have concerns then you should clearly raise them
(04:55:18 PM) JWSchmidt: Ottava: can I just paste what you are saying here into the wiki?
(04:55:54 PM) darkcode: I just want JWS to get all his demands/objections that he's had for the last 2 years down in one place, and give the community time to ensure it understands his demands/objections and decide whether it cares to do anything about them
(04:55:55 PM) Ottava: JWS - I'm asking you to come up with something on your own >.<
(04:56:06 PM) JWSchmidt: oh
(04:56:15 PM) Ottava: 5 sentences at most
(04:56:29 PM) Ottava: Something about what you think people's concerns are with -your- behavior
(04:56:32 PM) Ottava: don't discuss theirs
(04:56:41 PM) Ottava: and offer different suggestions on how you could address the concerns
(04:56:45 PM) Ottava: then others will state what they think
(04:56:47 PM) Ottava: then we can go from there
(04:56:49 PM) JWSchmidt: I see
(04:56:52 PM) Ottava: if you think there are no concerns, state that
(04:56:59 PM) Ottava: if you think there are too many to list, well, state that
(04:57:06 PM) JWSchmidt: ha ha
(04:57:06 PM) darkcode: JWS doesn't think he's done anything wrong and needs to do anything differently, so pointless no?
(04:57:23 PM) Ottava: Darkcode - possibly
(04:57:52 PM) Ottava: But JWS, remember, I do support possible future 24 hour blocks if you get too crazy, so please be calm and observant
(04:58:02 PM) JWSchmidt: ok
(04:58:05 PM) Ottava: Unlike Moulton, I know you are capable of self control
(04:58:41 PM) adambro: but providing JWS only targets me he's fine by you Ottava ?
(04:58:58 PM) Ottava: JWS targets me non stop
(04:59:01 PM) Ottava: What are you even talking about?
(04:59:20 PM) darkcode: thats why I say have him get all his objections/complaints down in one place, give the community an opportunity to make sure they understand the objections/complains, maybe have JWS write what he thinks should be done to resolve it after that, and then the community can let JWS know if it cares or do anything or not
(04:59:22 PM) Ottava: As I said, JWS has attacked my actions over 1000 times in a two year period
(04:59:45 PM) Ottava: darkcode - I think that could be a separate review entry, concurrent, sure
(05:00:45 PM) adambro: Ottava: ironic that you're proposing a policy saying children shouldn't be bullied yet seem to suggest it is okay for adults to attack each other. shouldn't we require civil constructive criticism rather than attacks?
(05:00:55 PM) adambro is now known as adambro_
(05:00:58 PM) darkcode: JWS thinks the community already understands from what I gather on his talk page, but JWS should still do it, if they community knows than it isn't going to hurt any
(05:01:04 PM) adambro_: back later
(05:01:07 PM) Ottava: Adambro, children have no ability to defend themselves. You are in a position of authority and have the ability to defend yourself.
(05:01:18 PM) Ottava: Don't try to act like you should be treated like a child, or we can accomodate you.
(05:02:17 PM) darkcode: just because people are adults, don't mean they know how to respond appropriately when bullied, some people never learn how to deal with bullies
(05:03:17 PM) darkcode: people shouldn't be bullied regardless of their age, of course the problem is different people have different ideas of what bullying is, so is hard to agree that someone is being bullied
(05:04:03 PM) Ottava: true, but the policy was mostly about children who are still intellectually undeveloped
(05:17:03 PM) JWSchmidt: Now I can edit
(05:20:02 PM) JWSchmidt: it is after 2 pm and I've not had anything to eat today, so I'm going to have lunch
(05:23:23 PM) darkcode left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(05:30:45 PM) adambro_: Ottava: may I quote what you've said on IRC on wiki?
(05:30:46 PM) adambro_ is now known as adambro
(05:31:03 PM) Ottava: which part?
(05:31:14 PM) Ottava: and didnt I already say that my statements could be quoted?
(05:31:16 PM) Ottava: I think three times
(05:31:37 PM) Ottava: If you want to quote the part where I said people lack confidence in you
(05:31:38 PM) Ottava: go ahead
(05:32:14 PM) adambro: I'd like to post everything we've both said since around 17:24 UTC (I think that's the right time)
(05:33:06 PM) Ottava: You might as well just post it up at WR because that is where it will end up
(05:33:33 PM) adambro: No, I'd rather post it on WV since that is where discussions about WV stuff should go on
(05:34:54 PM) adambro: well, since you don't seem too bothered and there is no policy against it on WV, I'll do so later once I've got round to removing the comments from others
(05:35:11 PM) Ottava: Well, you will most likely be attacked because of
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity...policy#IRC_chat(05:35:19 PM) Ottava: People on WR will think of you as a hypocrit (IMG:
smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
(05:36:05 PM) adambro: I think I've made it clear that I don't care what people on WR think and I'm always prepared to reconsider my position on issues.
(05:36:20 PM) Ottava: You don't really care what anyone thinks it seems.
(05:36:24 PM) adambro: looks like Moulton has posted a portion of it on WR already
(05:36:29 PM) Ottava: Could be why you pissed so many off.
(05:36:41 PM) adambro: thanks Monitor
(05:36:43 PM) Ottava: As I said before, we are logged
(05:38:09 PM) adambro: moulton aka Monitor, why do you have two accounts in #wikiversity by the way?
(05:38:36 PM) Ottava: He isn't the only one logging, you know
(05:39:14 PM) adambro: It doesn't bother me. I'm sure loads do it but I suspect most isn't so they can try to find something juicy to make a massive thread on WR about.
(05:39:30 PM) Ottava: Well, then you underestimate SB Johnny or JWS
(05:39:43 PM) Ottava: Hell, I made one with logs with Gmaxwell for his abuse on Commons
(05:40:01 PM) adambro: I'm not sure why I'm underestimating anyone ?
(05:40:09 PM) Ottava: You sure are acting like you are completely new to IRC or to Wikiversity
(05:40:29 PM) adambro: why so?
(05:41:30 PM) Ottava: Because you are in a room where you are pretty much on your own, with multiple people recording you, and many wanting you gone since 2009
(05:41:59 PM) Ottava: You rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and this is one of the most laid back communities
(05:42:49 PM) adambro: how should I act in the circumstances? am I supposed to be bothered that every word is being logged?
(05:43:44 PM) Ottava: They are being logged because they want to show others how you are. It has nothing to do with changing your behavior. Quite the opposite, they prefer you to be you.
(05:45:16 PM) adambro: does it provide a little excitement for the crowd on WR?
(05:46:35 PM) Ottava: Nah, they pretty much had a set view of you for quite a long time now
(05:47:15 PM) Ottava: I was your last main defender until you pissed that down the drain two months ago
(05:54:42 PM) adambro: two months ago?
(05:57:00 PM) Ottava: Mhmm
(05:57:36 PM) adambro: and I thought you could handle criticism? apparently not.
(05:58:01 PM) Ottava: I handle criticism. I don't handle people that abuse their ops in order to make their buddies happy on Commons.
(05:58:14 PM) adambro: I don't have any "buddies" on Commons
(05:58:17 PM) Ottava: And for what reason? To keep excessive amounts on porn?
(05:58:19 PM) Ottava: Sure
(05:59:02 PM) adambro: If I was in any doubt that this was personal, rather than because I've really damaged WV, I shouldn't be in any doubt for any longer I guess
(05:59:16 PM) adambro: a few comments you don't like any someone is an enemy for life?
(05:59:19 PM) Ottava: It isn't personal. You abused ops on multiple Wikis.
(05:59:21 PM) Ottava: You were told about that.
(05:59:28 PM) Ottava: You are a loose cannon.
(05:59:36 PM) adambro: where have I abused ops?
(06:00:05 PM) adambro: if I have abused ops on multiple wikis, why haven't you raised those concerns on each project?
(06:00:26 PM) Ottava: I did, I confronted you about it on Commons
(06:00:53 PM) adambro: where?
(06:01:19 PM) Ottava: On Commons
(06:01:31 PM) Ottava: there were only a few discussions we criss crossed during
(06:01:40 PM) Ottava: Maybe you should pay attention next time
(06:02:05 PM) adambro: only a few discussions. exactly.
(06:05:56 PM) adambro: should I expect your proposal to remove my admin rights any time soon?
(06:07:03 PM) Ottava: Depends on if you try to indef JWS again
(06:07:05 PM) Ottava: as I said before
(06:07:24 PM) Ottava: I told you that if you reblock him for more than 24 hours then there will be a problem
(06:08:12 PM) adambro: ahh right, well as I've said, I am absolutely prepared to do that despite your threat that I shouldn't if I consider it in the interests of WV. perhaps you should get on with it now since I've no intention of obeying your orders
(06:11:09 PM) Ottava: and when you do, you will be listed up for removal
(06:11:35 PM) adambro: as opposed to? I understood that was what you were meaning
(06:13:12 PM) Ottava: Have you reblocked JWS?
(06:13:39 PM) adambro: no, I've yet to see a reason to do so to, in my view at least, protect WV from disruption
(06:13:45 PM) Ottava: k
(06:14:38 PM) adambro: but, what happens if I decide to block a Moulton IP for more than 24 hours? does that rule apply there as well?
(06:16:00 PM) adambro: Ottava: you could go really wild and propose these little unwritten rules are made into policy
(06:21:52 PM) adambro: right, anyway, I have more useful things to do with my time than lurk in here so I'll be off, I shall look forward to seeing your proposal though Ottava
(06:22:02 PM) adambro left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]).
(06:25:20 PM) Ottava: Adambro - I was refering to you and JWS
(06:25:22 PM) Ottava: No one else
(06:25:33 PM) Ottava: Bah, he left
And Ottava unblocks JWSchmidt...