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_ Articles _ The Old Man Murray flap

Posted by: EricBarbour

Didn't anyone notice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Old_Man_Murray_(2nd_nomination)?
SchuminWeb (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who has apparently held a grudge against OMM writer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw,
somehow managed to get the Wikipedia article about OMM (an old gaming site) deleted.

Schumin tried http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Old_Man_Murray in January.
The only vote I can see is from MelanieN (T-C-L-K-R-D) . Girlfriend? Sock?

Among the results:

Boing Boing had http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/04/did-an-old-grudge-ge.html of it. Note some of the comments:

QUOTE
Sometimes I wish I could get back money I donated to them. I doubt I'll ever donate to wiki again.
QUOTE
This is standard Wikipedia. It's such a corrupt incestuous sausagefest. 'Free Encyclopedia' my ass.
I've given up even trying to bother getting useful info past the neckbeards who run the place - there are just too many hidden toes that are easily trod upon.

Oops! Neckbeards, ha ha.

And http://slashdot.org/story/11/03/03/1434216/Old-Man-Murray-Entry-Deleted-From-Wikipedia. Result: similar comments.
QUOTE
You know what should make your scratch your head? The problem you have just described at the same time happens to be the very essence and fundamental principle of Wikipedia. That anyone, including stupid morons, trolls with hidden agenda (competitors), and outright psychopaths can edit it any and every second, repeatedly and infinitely.
It follows that Wikipedia is, and has inherently been from the very beginning, a fundamentally flawed experiment. Thanks god Google is starting to realize this and is moving the Wikipedia result to SERPS position #5, while the first 4 links point to the authoritative or official site (if one exists).
QUOTE
I used to contribute a fair amount to Wikipedia to get my brain going in the morning. I quit doing so a couple years ago, because the whole infighting and "notability" crap was ridiculous. Every single character from a book, movie, cartoon, video game, anime (pokemon, etc) gets a many-paged detailed entry while real people quickly get the brush because someone gets a thorn in their ass over something. And those "somethings" are hard to pin down. Some entries surprisingly don't exist, while others (someone with a podcast you've never heard of or who is supposedly some self-described social media expert, etc) gets an entry. That idiot from "Hot For Words" even has a wikipedia entry.
QUOTE
Firstly, I won't be donating to Wikipedia again. This is not because I'm an OMM fanboy taking my bat home in a huff, although I am also that. But actually, it's because this story has made me look into Wikipedia more, and apparently this shit is rife. I guess I should have known that, but I'd always been scared to check because I still had some faith in one human endeavour and was happy to let things stay that way, until I felt some pressing need to know otherwise. Well, game over on that front. Back to total misanthropy for me.
Secondly, it's actually quite an interesting read because the Schumin guy who nominated for deletion, is evidently really, really, pathetic. And not in a kind of sad and disappointing, move along cowboy way, but actually to a degree that's almost gripping. This article highlights an almost iconic exemplar of the form of pathetic, to the degree that it's actually compelling.
To whit, and as best as I can tell from summaries, a man who is mocked - for being pathetic no less - by a popular gaming culture website waits a DECADE for revenge, whilst the world moves on around him, and the revengee behind the site goes on to pen dialogue for a video game that many people rightly consider one of the genuinely enduring classics of the new age.

I've seen a lot of buzz about this on gaming forums.

Mr. Schumin is quite the classic Wikipedia admin-troll. Look at the vote in his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/SchuminWeb.
Now look at the vote when he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Schuminweb.
There are numerous complaints about him in AN/I and Wikiquette.
And btw, he http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=31930&st=0&p=263919&#entry263919 with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

Posted by: SB_Johnny

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=31930&st=0&p=263919&#entry263919 with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anonymous_DC_No_Mask.jpg. fear.gif

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Fri 4th March 2011, 11:53am) *

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=31930&st=0&p=263919&#entry263919 with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anonymous_DC_No_Mask.jpg. fear.gif

Image

<insert cruel joke here>


Posted by: SB_Johnny

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 4th March 2011, 7:29am) *

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Fri 4th March 2011, 11:53am) *

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:07am) *

And btw, he http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=31930&st=0&p=263919&#entry263919 with Cirt when Scientology articles come up.....

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Anonymous_DC_No_Mask.jpg. fear.gif

<insert cruel joke here>


I wasn't commenting on his appearance so much as the reason he gives for "not wearing a mask" on the file description.

Posted by: Silver seren

I was wondering what was taking you guys so long to make a topic on this. tongue.gif

The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.

Posted by: taiwopanfob

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!

Posted by: Silver seren

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!


Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?

And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.

Posted by: taiwopanfob

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:32pm) *

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.


The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!


Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?


Your naive apologetics are vastly more insulting. Can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

QUOTE
And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.


Naive twat: you have improved _nothing_.

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 10:35am) *
QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:32pm) *
QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:29pm) *
QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 4:21pm) *
The good thing is, we were able to reverse Schumin's blatant COI pushing.
The bridge collapsed ... good thing is, we kept the plans and were able to rebuild a copy!
Dude, are you just going to be following me around and insulting me whenever you get the chance?
Your naive apologetics are vastly more insulting. Can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.
QUOTE
And to extend on your metaphor, we were able to improve upon the design of the bridge and build a better one because of it.
Naive twat: you have improved _nothing_.

Y'know, taiwanwatchfob, there's being critical of a person's efforts, and then there's just name-calling. You're being tiresomely disagreeable. tongue.gif

Posted by: Silver seren

It just feels silly to even have to argue that there are clear improvements from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=416835404 when it was userfied after the AfD to the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=417118001.

And it is certainly similar to, but way better than the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=416763067.

Posted by: Tarc

I don't really get the big deal of the "COI" complaint angle. If he'd just up and blown it away via fiat, sure, that'd be a prob. But just initiating a deletion discussion? No, you still need to convince others of the merits of the deletion. The whys, hows, and whos of who started an AfD rarely come in to play.

I don't wanna cross-pollute topics too much here, but the Wikipe-tan nominator was just blocked as some sock today, but the debate still goes on, validly.

Posted by: taiwopanfob

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:43pm) *
Y'know, taiwanwatchfob, there's being critical of a person's efforts, and then there's just name-calling. You're tiresomely disagreeable. tongue.gif


Silver seren is not a naive apologist, another piece of wiki-trash washed up on the shores of Wikipedia Review? Good grief.

In any case, in consideration of the source of these remarks, I'll back off.

Oops. One moment. Another bit of nonsense to be corrected from the man...

Posted by: Silver seren

(Not even going to bother.)

@Tarc: Well, I think the main issue is that the COI (or sock-blocking) kinda taints the AfD discussion and is likely to bog it down into discussions of such.

Posted by: taiwopanfob

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 6:47pm) *

It just feels silly to even have to argue that there are clear improvements from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=416835404 when it was userfied after the AfD to the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=417118001.

And it is certainly similar to, but way better than the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&oldid=416763067.


When the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsed in 1940, there was a careful examination towards cause. The film taken of the event -- youtube it -- still sends shivers down the spine of any engineer worthy of the title. Ever since, new designs are very carefully checked to make sure they were not subject to the same design flaw.

Seems to have worked so far: probably hundreds of new bridges since, and none have collapsed in the same way.

Funny how engineering works, eh?

Now, if you really think your pasting more lipstick onto the pig are in any way "design improvements" in the same vein, you are beyond hope.

Posted by: LessHorrid vanU

If these two piddlers are going to continue, can it go into the WP Annexe?

Posted by: EricBarbour

TW was so busy bitching out Seren, that neither one of them noted something important:

The news coverage of this (the Boing Boing and Slashdot articles) were followed with a considerable
number of comments. Comments that, for the first time I can recall, attacked Wikipedia's internal
culture for corruption and insanity.

And there was (some) coverage of this on gaming blogs/forums. For example:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/02/old-man-murray-deleted-from-wikipedia/
http://www.caltrops.com/pointy.php?action=viewPost&pid=136641 (complete with the comment aimed at Schumin: "You fucked with the wrong website, you disgustingly obese nobody. ")
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=138082

The gamer natives are restless, Seren. This little episode, despite a "favorable" result to inclusionists,
has garnered a lot of the wrong kind of attention among gamers.

And if you ever need proof that Wikipedia's admin forces contain some amazingly pathetic specimens......
look at http://www.schuminweb.com/main-page.php. It's been up since 1996, and it looks as if he hasn't improved it since 1996.

Interesting: http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/index.php#1368. And http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/permalink.php?id=1132, and http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/archive.php?month=2009-11 and http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/journal/permalink.php?id=1082.
He spends a LOT of time on his journal ranting about his activities, protesting the CoS.

Personally I'm fine with that, I dislike the CoS as much as anyone. But seriously, if I were a member of
Anonymous, I'd be embarrassed to have a clod like Ben Schumin in the group.

Plus, he's one of the few signatories to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutrality_in_Scientology.
He's been sneakily messing with articles like Jenna Miscavige Hill and other CoS-related items.

Read his edit history. People made him an admin based on his fooling people that he was an "inclusionist".
Yet his edits show the term "(rm unsourced trivia)" over and over and over again.

Posted by: Silver seren

I won't go into details, but *coughs* Anonymous is embarrassed that he's a member. unsure.gif

I think the main point that people need to understand though is that anyone can put something up for deletion. And a number of people have all agreed, evidenced by the deletion review discussion, that the closing admin was dead wrong in his decision. The actions of those two, Schumin especially, are not representative of Wikipedia. It would be different if OMM stayed deleted, but it didn't, the decision was reversed.

And, as at least some of the people in those discussion are pointing out, the Rock, Paper, Shotgun one especially, it would be helpful if news website actually covered these things if they are notable and important. The fact that there is not that much about Old Man Murray (though more stuff now thanks to this incident) is not the fault of Wikipedia, but the gaming news industry itself.


Edit: What am I supposed to be http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jenna_Miscavige_Hill&action=historysubmit&diff=405503348&oldid=405325220 He didn't really add any content, he just rearranged some sentences and moved the references that were in a list at the bottom of the page in as inline references.

Posted by: Wikicrusher2

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 4th March 2011, 1:18pm) *

Read his edit history. People made him an admin based on his fooling people that he was an "inclusionist".
Yet his edits show the term "(rm unsourced trivia)" over and over and over again.

It's probably better than keeping around unsourced trivia. Wikipedia has enough "inclusionism" for fanboy material already, especially comics and anime.

Posted by: EricBarbour

Perhaps I should comment on something else.

Schumin spends quite a bit of time sneakily watching/manicuring articles about people and things related to Erik Wolpaw and oldmanmurray.com.

For example, the game Wolpaw is famous for helping write: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_(video_game).
Plus Wolpaw associates, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Laidlaw and K. Thor Jensen.
Plus Portal Of Evil, which he had already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Portal_of_Evil (after which it was redirected to a user's version).
Might have something to do with PoE's users http://web.archive.org/web/20070806082121/friends.portalofevil.com/sfs.php?si=3&fi=000004954?

Isn't it interesting that Wolpaw's partner in OMM and at Valve, Chet Faliszek, doesn't have a Wikipedia BLP?
As one of the primary authors of both Portal and the Left 4 Dead franchise, I'd think Chet was "notable". Google him if you don't believe me.

I wonder if Schumin's thinking about deleting the Laidlaw, Portal and Left 4 Dead articles, also.

Ben Schumin is a very smug "little" man, and keeping him in the Wikipedia admin ranks is a really, really bad idea, okay?

Posted by: Silver seren

Sadly, I don't think there's anything I can do about him personally.

And, geez, stop giving me work to do, you guys! Now I have to add Chet to my list of articles to make.

Posted by: taiwopanfob

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Fri 4th March 2011, 9:02pm) *
If these two piddlers are going to continue, can it go into the WP Annexe?


Better question: is Silver seren's purpose to convert every thread into a WP Annex candidate?

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 1:50pm) *

...kinda taints...


It's all about the taint, isn't it?

Posted by: Silver seren

@Kohser: With me? Of course. tongue.gif

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Fri 4th March 2011, 9:02pm) *
If these two piddlers are going to continue, can it go into the WP Annexe?

Why? Don't you love Seren, your fellow Wiki-luv-boy?

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Fri 4th March 2011, 2:37pm) *
Better question: is Silver seren's purpose to convert every thread into a WP Annex candidate?

This is why I post the really nasty stuff in the "seekrit" forum......so he won't be able to act on it.
The Ben Schumin thing is trivial bullshit, though it does demonstrate the profound corruption of WP's normal operations.
He plays politics very well, the only people who complain about him are minor editors or vandals.

Posted by: Silver seren

By the way, did any of you guy read http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/04/the-remarkable-notability-of-old-man-murray/

It says "If you saw Wednesday’s article about Old Man Murray’s temporary deletion from Wikipedia, you’ll know that it was originally deemed “not notable” due to a lack of references. That’s been fixed now, thanks to the very hard work of Wikipedia editors. (It’s probably wise not to dismiss one of the greatest works of humanity over a single, dodgy admin settling personal grudges. Compare and contrast with when we turned our attention to Fox News. Nothing changed. Wikipedia addresses the issue professionally within 24 hours.) And we want to help it stay that way."

So...Rock, Paper, Shotgun thinks Wikipedia is worthwhile.

Posted by: Sarcasticidealist

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 9:53pm) *
So...Rock, Paper, Shotgun thinks Wikipedia is worthwhile.
While always fallacious, appeals to authority are marginally less offensive when there is an actual authority involved.

Posted by: Silver seren

tongue.gif

It was more in response to what Eric said before about a previous article that Rock, Paper, Shotgun put out that was negative toward Wikipedia (before the deletion review reversed the deletion).

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 7:53pm) *
It says "If you saw Wednesday’s article about Old Man Murray’s temporary deletion from Wikipedia, you’ll know that it was originally deemed “not notable” due to a lack of references. That’s been fixed now, thanks to the very hard work of Wikipedia editors. (It’s probably wise not to dismiss one of the greatest works of humanity over a single, dodgy admin settling personal grudges. Compare and contrast with when we turned our attention to Fox News. Nothing changed. Wikipedia addresses the issue professionally within 24 hours.) And we want to help it stay that way."

So...Rock, Paper, Shotgun thinks Wikipedia is worthwhile.

That's not quite what they said though, is it? They said it's "one of the greatest works of humanity." You could say the same thing about, say, nuclear weapons, totalitarianism, or the Jimmy Buffett discography.

Nobody is denying that Wikipedia is impressively big, has lots of stuff going on with it all the time, and is viewed by lots and lots of people. We're simply pointing out that those are not necessarily good things.

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 4th March 2011, 11:36pm) *

QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 7:53pm) *
It says "If you saw Wednesday’s article about Old Man Murray’s temporary deletion from Wikipedia, you’ll know that it was originally deemed “not notable” due to a lack of references. That’s been fixed now, thanks to the very hard work of Wikipedia editors. (It’s probably wise not to dismiss one of the greatest works of humanity over a single, dodgy admin settling personal grudges. Compare and contrast with when we turned our attention to Fox News. Nothing changed. Wikipedia addresses the issue professionally within 24 hours.) And we want to help it stay that way."

So...Rock, Paper, Shotgun thinks Wikipedia is worthwhile.

That's not quite what they said though, is it? They said it's "one of the greatest works of humanity." You could say the same thing about, say, nuclear weapons, totalitarianism, or the Jimmy Buffett discography.

Nobody is denying that Wikipedia is impressively big, has lots of stuff going on with it all the time, and is viewed by lots and lots of people. We're simply pointing out that those are not necessarily good things.


*sings off-key, waving a salt-encrusted glass*
"Your time is... wasted again in Wikipediaville..."

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sat 5th March 2011, 1:46am) *
"Your time is... wasted again in Wikipediaville..."

Indeed. But having said what I said above, I should also hasten to point out that my own sympathies are mostly with Mr. Schumin in this instance. It appears to be true that he's pathetic, but that could be said of lots of people, including myself (depending on what day of the week it is).

Anyway, simply put, his reaction to a long-running series of personal insults from the Old Man Murray forums (whether or not they were justified) was to try to get information about the offending parties deleted from the internet. It would be completely hypocritical for me to suggest that this sort of reaction is inherently wrong, since after all, my own reaction to a comparatively short series of insults from a small number of Wikipedians was, at least initially, to call for Wikipedia to be deleted from the internet.

Of course, the difference is that I knew that even with dogged persistence and a non-negligible amount of behind-the-scenes influence, I had (and still have) no real chance of success, despite how much better off the world would be if I succeeded. Whereas Mr. Schumin, with a much smaller (and now increasingly moribund) target, came very close to succeeding in this instance - and given that the world would barely notice either way, there's no real guarantee that he won't have better luck next time.

Posted by: Somey

And if you'll indulge me just a wee bit further, this incident could actually be very ominous for Wikipedia as a whole, despite how trivial it seems. Gamers have always been one of Wikipedia's core constituencies, and that hasn't changed since the early days of the site's existence. Time and again, we've seen how websites suffer when they get a little too full of themselves and start doing things that alienate one or more of their core constituencies. It's like when you ban people - they don't simply go away; they get pissed off, start bad-mouthing you in public, plot revenge, launch competitors, and so on. But unlike banning people, which usually only produces one or two pissed-off people at a time, alienating gamers would create a vast group of organized, technically-adept, highly motivated, and in many cases extremely clever individuals lined up against WP and its administrators.

So as I often do, I'd have to agree with Mr. Barbour - keeping Mr. Schumin in the Wikipedia admin ranks is a really, really bad idea, at least for Wikipedia. Of course, that's exactly why they'll keep him; they're all big fans of the Really Bad Idea.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th March 2011, 12:22am) *

And if you'll indulge me just a wee bit further, this incident could actually be very ominous for Wikipedia as a whole, despite how trivial it seems. Gamers have always been one of Wikipedia's core constituencies, and that hasn't changed since the early days of the site's existence. Time and again, we've seen how websites suffer when they get a little too full of themselves and start doing things that alienate one or more of their core constituencies. It's like when you ban people - they don't simply go away; they get pissed off, start bad-mouthing you in public, plot revenge, launch competitors, and so on. But unlike banning people, which usually only produces one or two pissed-off people at a time, alienating gamers would create a vast group of organized, technically-adept, highly motivated, and in many cases extremely clever individuals lined up against WP and its administrators.

So as I often do, I'd have to agree with Mr. Barbour - keeping Mr. Schumin in the Wikipedia admin ranks is a really, really bad idea, at least for Wikipedia. Of course, that's exactly why they'll keep him; they're all big fans of the Really Bad Idea.

Thank you. Now, how to change Seren's mind.

Posted by: Kelly Martin

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 5th March 2011, 2:21pm) *
Thank you. Now, how to change Seren's mind.
First you'll have to find it.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th March 2011, 1:22am) *

And if you'll indulge me just a wee bit further, this incident could actually be very ominous for Wikipedia as a whole, despite how trivial it seems. Gamers have always been one of Wikipedia's core constituencies, and that hasn't changed since the early days of the site's existence. Time and again, we've seen how websites suffer when they get a little too full of themselves and start doing things that alienate one or more of their core constituencies. It's like when you ban people - they don't simply go away; they get pissed off, start bad-mouthing you in public, plot revenge, launch competitors, and so on. But unlike banning people, which usually only produces one or two pissed-off people at a time, alienating gamers would create a vast group of organized, technically-adept, highly motivated, and in many cases extremely clever individuals lined up against WP and its administrators.

So as I often do, I'd have to agree with Mr. Barbour - keeping Mr. Schumin in the Wikipedia admin ranks is a really, really bad idea, at least for Wikipedia. Of course, that's exactly why they'll keep him; they're all big fans of the Really Bad Idea.

But in the case of alienating gamers, what's bad for Wikipedia is explicitly GOOD for Wikia. Long ago Jimbo Wales set up WP rules in such a way as to encourage gaming and 'cruft crap to go to someplace where he personally could make AdSense money from it. By now, the habit is so ingrained that not even people who own no Wikia shares question it. It's not as though Wikia is publically traded-- most people who help Jimbo by sweeping 'cruft off WP hardly know what they're doing. They haven't thought about it. Since WP is NOTPAPER, they really have no reason except a vague notion of habit.

I've sometimes thought that a lot of clarification of WP:NOT could be done, if it were simply rewritten as WP:NOTWIKIA, explaining all this in terms that even a Neckbeard (thanks for that) might understand.

After all, can you think of any reason except ethical and financial reasons, why WP should NOT be anything you can think of, that is hyperlinkable? I can't. And there's no sign at all that the people who own Wikia have any ethics. From BLP we can see that WP doesn't.

Posted by: Silver seren

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Man_Murray&action=historysubmit&diff=417381575&oldid=417195418

Why am I not surprised?

Posted by: EricBarbour

Yet another http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/03/13/1550234/Old-Man-Murray-Wikipedia-Controversy-Continues?from=rss about the OMM business.

This time, the squabble has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-07/Deletion_controversy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games#Rock.2C_Paper.2C_Shotgun_.26_Old_Man_Murray.
Yes, that tie-dyed blimp Schumin is still up to no good. Why hasn't anyone RFCed him?

Look at the talkpage archives. There's only one, from 2006-2007.
Yet there was a very long argument on there back around March 4, when the AFD battle was ongoing.
I suspect some admin has been erasing and oversighting the talkpage. Something suspicious.

Also being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions#March_1- as a subject for the Signpost. Twenty bucks sez it'll never be mentioned again.

And now, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#A_reminder:_.22Meatpuppet.22_is_an_insult._Don.27t_call_anyone_a_meatpuppet.. Do tell. hrmph.gif

Posted by: Somey

What a strange, strange person... This is one of those guys who basically documents his whole life on the web, with his own highly extensive http://www.youtube.com/user/schuminweb, a large http://www.schuminweb.com/schumin-web/life-and-times/index.php that appears to be devoted to total, utter banality, and videos like this that go on for 20 minutes about literally nothing whatsoever:



No sane person could watch this for more than 90 seconds, and even an insane person would be hard-pressed to get past 3 minutes.

This guy is clearly a full-blown narcissist, and probably OCD too, though he appears mostly harmless - I doubt he's a sociopath or some other sort of weirdo. He does seem to have an almost completely infantile mentality. It's good to know that he can hold down a job, and doesn't seem to have any serious medical problems, other than being overweight.

FWIW, I hate to say things like this about people I've never met in person, but when there's this much documentary evidence it's hard not to reach those conclusions. I mean, it was obvious enough with people like Phil Sandifer and Shankers, and they weren't even video-bloggers. I can see now why the Old Man Murphy forum users reacted to Schumin the way they did, and frankly, his insistence on trying to get that article deleted is dangerously close to Streisand Effect territory for him, if it isn't already there.

Again, I'm not going to say that what he's doing is wrong - after all, if I were a Wikipedian myself, I'd probably be voting "Delete" in every AfD I could get my hands on. But if he really wants that deletion to happen, he'd better come up with a few "meat puppets" of his own, ASAP.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

I made it through 16 seconds, but that was with the audio turned off.

So I must be sane after all …

Jon dizzy.gif

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 14th March 2011, 1:28am) *
I made it through 16 seconds, but that was with the audio turned off.

So I must be sane after all …

Who would have guessed? smile.gif

The thing is, about 75 seconds in, he turns on this really loud fire-drill sound effect, and if you've still got the audio on at that point, there's no way you're going to want to keep it on for another 2 seconds, much less another 20 minutes. I mean, how can anyone do this? It's mind-boggling, it really is.

Posted by: melloden

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 14th March 2011, 6:32am) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 14th March 2011, 1:28am) *
I made it through 16 seconds, but that was with the audio turned off.

So I must be sane after all …

Who would have guessed? smile.gif

The thing is, about 75 seconds in, he turns on this really loud fire-drill sound effect, and if you've still got the audio on at that point, there's no way you're going to want to keep it on for another 2 seconds, much less another 20 minutes. I mean, how can anyone do this? It's mind-boggling, it really is.


This is why I can't stand listening to gay-ish male voices for very long.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(melloden @ Mon 14th March 2011, 2:01am) *
This is why I can't stand listening to gay-ish male voices for very long.

True, it can be trying... but I should just point out here that I've met several gay folks over the years, and very few of them showed any real tendency towards narcissism or self-absorption whatsoever. For some reason, effeminacy can give people (men, usually, but sometimes women too) the wrong impression, as if the person is trying to get attention or put on some sort of exhibitionist "show" for people, when in fact that's not usually what it is at all. It may be that some gay guys who are effeminate are trying to compensate for deep-seated insecurities in some way, but that's certainly not the same thing, and of course that can also be said of a lot of people regardless of what sort of things they do in private.

Long story short, I don't believe Mr. Schumin's behavior as a Wikipedian has much of anything to do with whatever his sexual proclivities may be, assuming he even has any. This is simply a guy who can't accept the kind of effect he has on people whom he either doesn't agree with or doesn't respect. If he is gay (and I don't really know if he is or not), he might have cause to believe that some of the enmity directed at him is bigotry - but I don't think there's any question that there would still be plenty of enmity even if he looked and talked like Brad Pitt, or George Clooney, or someone even better-looking, such as myself.

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(melloden @ Mon 14th March 2011, 2:01am) *

This is why I can't stand listening to gay-ish male voices for very long.


Try this. I can listen to this multiple times a day.


Posted by: Tarc

Image

Image

Jesus, talk about being separated at birth.


Posted by: EricBarbour

Bringing this thread up for 2 reasons:

First, Seren created a small BLP about Chet Faliszek.

Second, I have a video which will make you wonder about the sanity of people who make video games.

Behold: The nerds of Valve, talking about the company's http://www.dump.com/2011/04/24/valve-behind-the-scenes-the-snack-bar-video/

Complete with Erik Wolpaw complaining about people stealing his butter.

Too many idiots worship these guys. They are starting to believe their
own press releases. A pile of junk food does not make a good workplace.
And Wolpaw bears a frightening resemblance to Sheldon on
The Big Bang Theory.

Posted by: Infomercial

This is just a bump to say that Schumin recently retired from Wikipedia. After his several flagrant abuses of power, I can't say that I'll miss him, but it's too bad he couldn't have stuck around long enough to go through what would've been a very lulzy arbitration.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Infomercial @ Sun 30th December 2012, 4:15am) *

This is just a bump to say that Schumin recently retired from Wikipedia. After his several flagrant abuses of power, I can't say that I'll miss him, but it's too bad he couldn't have stuck around long enough to go through what would've been a very lulzy arbitration.

No bloody backbone, so he ran. But will he be back under another name?

Posted by: Michaeldsuarez

QUOTE(Infomercial @ Sat 29th December 2012, 11:15pm) *

This is just a bump to say that Schumin recently retired from Wikipedia. After his several flagrant abuses of power, I can't say that I'll miss him, but it's too bad he couldn't have stuck around long enough to go through what would've been a very lulzy arbitration.


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SchuminWeb&diff=530019994&oldid=529472366:

QUOTE
The accepted [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/SchuminWeb|case]] is hereby suspended pending [[User:SchuminWeb|SchuminWeb's]] return to editing. SchuminWeb is instructed not to use his administrator tools in any way until the closure of the case; doing so will be grounds for removal of his administrator userrights. Should SchuminWeb decide to resign his administrative tools, the case will be closed and no further action taken. Should SchuminWeb not return to participate in the case within three months of this motion passing, this case will be closed, and the account will be desysopped. If the tools are resigned or removed in either of the circumstances described above, restoration of the tools to SchuminWeb will require a [[WP:RFA|new request for adminship]].


If he returns, he'll either have to go through Arbitration in order to remain a sysop or resign his sysop tools in order to avoid Arbitration. If he doesn't return within three months, he'll be desysopped.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Michaeldsuarez @ Mon 31st December 2012, 1:01pm) *

If he returns, he'll either have to go through Arbitration in order to remain a sysop or resign his sysop tools in order to avoid Arbitration. If he doesn't return within three months, he'll be desysopped.

Yes, sounds ruddy fine in theory. But there's nothing to stop him socking and becoming an admin again, is there?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Mon 31st December 2012, 1:34pm) *

QUOTE(Michaeldsuarez @ Mon 31st December 2012, 1:01pm) *

If he returns, he'll either have to go through Arbitration in order to remain a sysop or resign his sysop tools in order to avoid Arbitration. If he doesn't return within three months, he'll be desysopped.

Yes, sounds ruddy fine in theory. But there's nothing to stop him socking and becoming an admin again, is there?


You mean "Yes, it sounds very fine in theory, but there is nothing to stop him from socking and becoming an admin once more" right?

Otherwise, you butchered everything. Even your use of "ruddy" was wrong. Ruddy means "damned" and not "damn." A real Brit would know this.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 31st December 2012, 7:10pm) *

Otherwise, you butchered everything. Even your use of "ruddy" was wrong. Ruddy means "damned" and not "damn." A real Brit would know this.

Look, we all know you're ruddy illiterate. Why do you keep proving it again and again?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Tue 1st January 2013, 10:30am) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 31st December 2012, 7:10pm) *

Otherwise, you butchered everything. Even your use of "ruddy" was wrong. Ruddy means "damned" and not "damn." A real Brit would know this.

Look, we all know you're ruddy illiterate. Why do you keep proving it again and again?


You mean "a ruddy illiterate person." Once again, you used the word "ruddy" in an improper manner.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 10:27pm) *

You mean "a ruddy illiterate person." Once again, you used the word "ruddy" in an improper manner.

Isn't it bloody stupid to make a false "correction" to someone's grammatically correct English?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 6:28pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 10:27pm) *

You mean "a ruddy illiterate person." Once again, you used the word "ruddy" in an improper manner.

Isn't it bloody stupid to make a false "correction" to someone's grammatically correct English?


You haven't posted a proper sentence.

Posted by: The Joy

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 6:28pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 10:27pm) *

You mean "a ruddy illiterate person." Once again, you used the word "ruddy" in an improper manner.

Isn't it bloody stupid to make a false "correction" to someone's grammatically correct English?


I knew a guy in college from Manchester, England. The English professors at my college would take off points anytime he used British English in his essays. It frustrated him to no end. frustrated.gif

He also wore a "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Connection_%28clothing%29" shirt that scared the... fudge... out of we Americans every time we saw it. On another note, he told me of the Welsh and their very intimate love of sheep. blink.gif confused.gif sick.gif

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 11:39pm) *

You haven't posted a proper sentence.

Please take a course in basic English grammar.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 6:43pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 11:39pm) *

You haven't posted a proper sentence.

Please take a course in basic English grammar.


Take one where? To the same place the missing parts of your sentences can be found? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause to brush up on the basics of English grammar. You appear to be fundamentally unable to comprehend how to compose a complete sentence.


Posted by: Detective

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 11:59pm) *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause to brush up on the basics of English grammar.

ohmy.gif Ottava's been drinking too much Jimbojuice. You should never quote Wikipedia as an authoritative reference on anything.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Detective @ Thu 3rd January 2013, 7:35am) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 2nd January 2013, 11:59pm) *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause to brush up on the basics of English grammar.

ohmy.gif Ottava's been drinking too much Jimbojuice. You should never quote Wikipedia as an authoritative reference on anything.


I never said it was authoritative. I did say that it has the basics. It does a decent job at defining various types of clauses.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 3rd January 2013, 4:52pm) *

I never said it was authoritative. I did say that it has the basics. It does a decent job at defining various types of clauses.

So you think that WP does have decent articles? In that case, read it and ruddy learn something yourself instead of making an even bigger laughing stock of yourself by "correcting" me.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Thu 3rd January 2013, 5:25pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 3rd January 2013, 4:52pm) *

I never said it was authoritative. I did say that it has the basics. It does a decent job at defining various types of clauses.

So you think that WP does have decent articles? In that case, read it and ruddy learn something yourself instead of making an even bigger laughing stock of yourself by "correcting" me.


"ypur" post is as laughably horrible as your other ones. There is just more and more gobblygook every time I look at this forum.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 4:19am) *

There is just more and more gobblygook every time I look at this forum.

Yes, I've noticed that. It comes mostly from someone with a ruddy yellow cat atavar. If you don't like the contents of this site, go away and leave it to the grown-ups.

Oh, and it's "gobbledygook", not "gobblygook". The latter is a neologism:
QUOTE
Most usually referring to some inane math equation (or a section of one) on the board, but can be used in other situations in which someone understands something but doesn't feel like going through the process of saying it out loud.



Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Fri 4th January 2013, 7:33am) *

Oh, and it's "gobbledygook", not "gobblygook". The latter is a neologism:
QUOTE
Most usually referring to some inane math equation (or a section of one) on the board, but can be used in other situations in which someone understands something but doesn't feel like going through the process of saying it out loud.



You are obviously not a native speaker of English if you never heard the word before and had to look it up at Urban Dictionary. You would also know that there is no "set" spelling for a term that is mostly a noise - a garbled version of "gobble". Only a non-native speaker would have responded in the above manner. The word "neologism" doesn't mean what you think it means.

Posted by: Jay

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 1:10pm) *

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Fri 4th January 2013, 7:33am) *

Oh, and it's "gobbledygook", not "gobblygook". The latter is a neologism:
QUOTE
Most usually referring to some inane math equation (or a section of one) on the board, but can be used in other situations in which someone understands something but doesn't feel like going through the process of saying it out loud.



You are obviously not a native speaker of English if you never heard the word before and had to look it up at Urban Dictionary. You would also know that there is no "set" spelling for a term that is mostly a noise - a garbled version of "gobble". Only a non-native speaker would have responded in the above manner. The word "neologism" doesn't mean what you think it means.

I can help here. "Neologism" means "a new word or expression". Certainly "gobblygook" qualifies as a neologism because there is absolutely no record of that word going back more than a few years, whereas "gobbledygook" was coined in 1944. Certainly there is no "set" spelling, and the various Merriam-Webster dictionaries do give several spellings, but they all have a d in, because that's how the word is pronounced. I cannot find any print dictionary with "gobblygook" in, although Retrospect is correct in saying that it is in Urban Dictionary.

The Wikipedia article on Gobbledygook also does not give gobblygook as a valid spelling. It does contain the word once, but this is obviously a typo, since it is a link to this site:

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/examples/gobbledygook-generator.html


QUOTE(Retrospect @ Fri 4th January 2013, 12:33pm) *
If you don't like the contents of this site, go away and leave it to the grown-ups.


Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Jay @ Fri 4th January 2013, 5:27pm) *

I can help here. "Neologism" means "a new word or expression". Certainly "gobblygook" qualifies as a neologism because there is absolutely no record of that word going back more than a few years, whereas "gobbledygook" was coined in 1944.


You are an idiot in addition to trolling on the other name. Gobblygook and gobbledygood are the same word and are based on a sound. Neologism are about different works, not spelling variants.

Only someone from India would say something as ridiculous as you stated. I guess you would also quibble with woof vs ruff vs bowow.

Posted by: Jay

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 10:29pm) *

Neologism are about different works, not spelling variants.
confused.gif
QUOTE

Only someone from India would say something as ridiculous as you stated.

You really must stop these nasty vicious racist attacks on Indians.
QUOTE
I guess you would also quibble with woof vs ruff vs bowow.

I have no idea what a bowow is. If it is your attempt to spell bow-wow, then that is a completely different sound from a woof, as you would know if you had ever encountered a dog. Do you think "miaow" and "purr" are synonyms?

I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that it is you who is not the native speaker of English.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Jay @ Fri 4th January 2013, 5:40pm) *

You really must stop these nasty vicious racist attacks on Indians.


It is racist to say that someone from India doesn't have the same understanding of the English language as native speakers? What a troll.


QUOTE
If it is your attempt to spell bow-wow, then that is a completely different sound from a woof


There is no set spelling for an onomatopoeia, which is why there are thousands of variants, and if you think "woof woof" and "bow-wow" are different, then you are an idiot. But you are just an idiot and a troll, so you most likely have no clue what you are even posting.


Oh, p.s., your editing behavior, times, and the rest all match up. Thank you for verifying that the three accounts are all yours. It is nice of you.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 10:29pm) *
Gobblygook and gobbledygood are the same word and are based on a sound. Neologism are about different works, not spelling variants.

Look, they have different spellings and different meanings, and that's been proved by reference to sources. They are ruddy clearly different words. Unless you can produce a shred of evidence to the contrary, you are clearly nuts.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 10:58pm) *

There is no set spelling for an onomatopoeia, which is why there are thousands of variants, and if you think "woof woof" and "bow-wow" are different, then you are an idiot.

So, Ottava does not even know the ruddy difference between a dog's growl and a bark.

I can't believe that any American would have the visceral hatred of Indians that Ottava displays. It is far more likely that he is a Pakistani. This would also be consistent with his bloody ignorance about dogs, because Muslims hate dogs.


QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 10:58pm) *

Oh, p.s., your editing behavior, times, and the rest all match up.

And he can't even do bloody simple tests on edit times, let alone examine edit behaviour. laugh.gif

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Sat 5th January 2013, 12:42pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 4th January 2013, 10:29pm) *
Gobblygook and gobbledygood are the same word and are based on a sound. Neologism are about different works, not spelling variants.

Look, they have different spellings and different meanings, and that's been proved by reference to sources. They are ruddy clearly different words.


The Urbandictionary is self edited and still the same meaning. A native English speaker would have seen that.

QUOTE
So, Ottava does not even know the ruddy difference between a dog's growl and a bark.


A native English speaker would know that both bowow/bow-wow and woof woof or ruff ruff are all barking noises. Growling would be "rawr," "grrr," or similar noises.

QUOTE
It is far more likely that he is a Pakistani.


More proof you are Indian. You have taken my labeling you as Indian because of a non-native English speaking ability as an insult and racist, which is anti-imperialistic sentiment. Then you try to talk about Indian vs Pakistani relations.

So why keep denying it?

Posted by: Retrospect

Thanks for confirming that you are a Pakistani who can't speak English properly and doesn't know anything about dogs. popcorn.gif

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Sun 6th January 2013, 6:38am) *

Thanks for confirming that you are a Pakistani who can't speak English properly and doesn't know anything about dogs. popcorn.gif


Do you honestly think "bow wow" is a growling noise?

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 6th January 2013, 2:49pm) *

Do you honestly think "bow wow" is a growling noise?

I cannot believe that your comprehension of Englis is as poor as you pretend. You are just ruddy trolling and wasting everyone's time. Please stop.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Sun 6th January 2013, 4:48pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 6th January 2013, 2:49pm) *

Do you honestly think "bow wow" is a growling noise?

I cannot believe that your comprehension of Englis is as poor as you pretend. You are just ruddy trolling and wasting everyone's time. Please stop.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bowwow?s=t



I can't believe you are so pathetic that your exposure as a non-native speaker of English can easily be proven by the above. Haha, you are a total clown. The Joy was right. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 7th January 2013, 1:40am) *

Yet more evidence of Ottava's ruddy total lack of understanding of English.

Do you really maintain that there's no ruddy difference between a growl and a bark? If so, you've obviously been avoiding dogs all your life.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Mon 7th January 2013, 7:31am) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 7th January 2013, 1:40am) *

Yet more evidence of Ottava's ruddy total lack of understanding of English.

Do you really maintain that there's no ruddy difference between a growl and a bark? If so, you've obviously been avoiding dogs all your life.


Actually, you claimed that bowwow was a growling noise when it clearly is a barking noise. Then you got all worked up because you made this mistake. Out of embarrassment, you are now trying to say that even the dictionary is wrong.

Come on, Poetlister, where are your other socks to harass like your normal routine when exposed as a failure? Too busy trying to steal yet another identity?

sick.gif

Posted by: Detective

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 7th January 2013, 2:44pm) *

Come on, Poetlister

Who is this Poetlister? Is he/she/it yet another Indian?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Detective @ Tue 8th January 2013, 7:22am) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Mon 7th January 2013, 2:44pm) *

Come on, Poetlister

Who is this Poetlister? Is he/she/it yet another Indian?



Forget who you are already? I guess it makes sense when you fracture your identity among so many sock puppets.

Posted by: Detective

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 9th January 2013, 4:32am) *

Forget who you are already? I guess it makes sense when you fracture your identity among so many sock puppets.

So let's get this straight. You think I'm Retrospect and that Retrospect is Indian. So I must be Indian. You also think I'm this Poetlister. I remember that when I commented on the success of the Wikilivres site, Alison singled him out as the person responsible. So is Poetlister an Indian?

Posted by: Retrospect

It's ruddy simple. Of course, Ottava will say, neither of us is Indian. I tricked him into believing I was Indian by constantly telling him that I was ruddy not an Indian, but now he's seen through my cunning plan.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Wed 9th January 2013, 5:48pm) *

It's ruddy simple. Of course, Ottava will say, neither of us is Indian. I tricked him into believing I was Indian by constantly telling him that I was ruddy not an Indian, but now he's seen through my cunning plan.


Poetlister has never had a cunning plan in the past nor a cunning plan in the future. Only stolen identities and a long list of harassment. You should be proud.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 9th January 2013, 11:24pm) *

Poetlister has never had a cunning plan in the past nor a cunning plan in the future.

Whew! So I'm not Poetlister after all. That's a ruddy great relief. smile.gif

But does that mean that I'm Indian? ermm.gif
QUOTE
You should be proud.

Yes, I'm ruddy proud to be British and so grateful I'm not some shithead who thinks I'm Indian.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Thu 10th January 2013, 3:17pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Wed 9th January 2013, 11:24pm) *

Poetlister has never had a cunning plan in the past nor a cunning plan in the future.

Whew! So I'm not Poetlister after all. That's a ruddy great relief. smile.gif

But does that mean that I'm Indian? ermm.gif
QUOTE
You should be proud.

Yes, I'm ruddy proud to be British and so grateful I'm not some shithead who thinks I'm Indian.



Poetlister used proxies. You used proxies. Your socks used proxies. You act the same. Your socks all act the same. And not one is a real Brit.

Posted by: NotASpamBot

Ottava is suspicious and judgmental of everyone, it seems.

Does Ottava like/trust anyone in WR?

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Thu 10th January 2013, 10:57pm) *

Ottava is suspicious and judgmental of everyone, it seems.

Does Ottava like/trust anyone in WR?

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?


NotASpamBot, I suggest you look up who Poetlister is. Their identity was confirmed when they were banned from the other forums and then they tried to use names known to be him here and play his games.

Posted by: NotASpamBot

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 10th January 2013, 8:09pm) *

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Thu 10th January 2013, 10:57pm) *

Ottava is suspicious and judgmental of everyone, it seems.

Does Ottava like/trust anyone in WR?

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?


NotASpamBot, I suggest you look up who Poetlister is. Their identity was confirmed when they were banned from the other forums and then they tried to use names known to be him here and play his games.


Your reply is a non-sequitur in regard to my questions.

And I wasn't asking you, anyway.

Posted by: Detective

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 10th January 2013, 11:02pm) *

Poetlister used proxies. You used proxies. Your socks used proxies.

How do you know? Am I using proxies?
QUOTE
And not one is a real Brit.

Obviously not. They are Britons, not Brits, just as people from France are French, not Frogs.


QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Fri 11th January 2013, 3:57am) *

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?

That's a leading question. laugh.gif

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 11th January 2013, 4:09am) *

Their identity was confirmed when they were banned from the other forums and then they tried to use names known to be him here and play his games.

Who has been banned, and from where? I have never been banned on any online forum. You alleged that Retrospect had been banned from somewhere else, but when he pointed out that it was someone else who by coincidence was using the same name, you agreed that this was so.

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Fri 11th January 2013, 4:23am) *

Your reply is a non-sequitur in regard to my questions.

That's how you know it's Ottava.

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 10th January 2013, 11:02pm) *

You used proxies.

That's a ruddy lie. If you don't know that, two nice men with a canvas jacket need to visit you.
QUOTE
Your socks used proxies.
I've never socked, and nobody but you thinks I have. Where's your evidence? There is none - not a ruddy jot.
QUOTE
And not one is a real Brit.

So says the Pakistani.


QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Fri 11th January 2013, 3:57am) *

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?

Of course not. "What tremendously easy riddles you ask!"

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Thu 10th January 2013, 11:23pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 10th January 2013, 8:09pm) *

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Thu 10th January 2013, 10:57pm) *

Ottava is suspicious and judgmental of everyone, it seems.

Does Ottava like/trust anyone in WR?

Better yet, does anyone in WR like/trust Ottava?


NotASpamBot, I suggest you look up who Poetlister is. Their identity was confirmed when they were banned from the other forums and then they tried to use names known to be him here and play his games.


Your reply is a non-sequitur in regard to my questions.


"Non-sequitur" doesn't mean what you think it means. You asked about my trust issues. I pointed out clear reasons not to true him.



QUOTE(Retrospect @ Fri 11th January 2013, 3:48pm) *

Poetlister's standard whining

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(NotASpamBot @ Thu 10th January 2013, 11:23pm) *

Your reply is a non-sequitur in regard to my questions.

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 11th January 2013, 10:25pm) *

"Non-sequitur" doesn't mean what you think it means. You asked about my trust issues. I pointed out clear reasons not to true him.

"To true", as any native speaker of English would know, means to bring something into the exact position or form required. Thus, you true a wheel by adjusting its position on its axle; you true a block of wood by planing it to adjust its shape. I am unclear how you true a person, or how that relates to Ottava's shithead reply. No doubt he can explain.

Ottava chose to ignore the second question, because he could not answer in a way that would not make him look even more bloody ridiculous than he does now. That's fair enough.
QUOTE
Poetlister's standard whining

Are you not getting ruddy confused? I, you say, am Indian. Poetlister, I understand, is English. We cannot possibly be the same person.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Sat 12th January 2013, 9:42am) *

"To true", as any native speaker of English would know, means to bring something into the exact position or form required.


No. No one uses such antiquated terms except those in India. It is clear that I meant to say to trust him. A native speaker would have seen that.




QUOTE
Poetlister, I understand, is English. We cannot possibly be the same person.


Poetlister is not English. You are too new to even know about him. So what is your real identity?

Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 12th January 2013, 4:02pm) *

No. No one uses such antiquated terms except those in India. It is clear that I meant to say to trust him. A native speaker would have seen that.

So once again you prove that you have no ruddy knowledge of English. Have you ever ridden a bicycle?

http://bicycletutor.com/wheel-truing/


Posted by: Retrospect

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 12th January 2013, 4:02pm) *

You are too new to even know about him.

Any native speaker of English would have been able to find when my WP account was created, which was 2007. So, when will you admit that you can't speak English properly?

Posted by: Tarc

QUOTE(Retrospect @ Sat 12th January 2013, 4:24pm) *

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 12th January 2013, 4:02pm) *

You are too new to even know about him.

Any native speaker of English would have been able to find when my WP account was created, which was 2007. So, when will you admit that you can't speak English properly?


Listen you cum-guzzling faggots, I'm about 2 seconds away from plastering goatse and lemonparty on every fucking thread you post in. No one gives a fuck about you two, a fake-assed chav and an OCD basketcase. I'd rather see this forum die into unused obsolescence than see you 2 Jew it up here day in and day out.

Go outside, fuck a girl, read a book, fly a kite, go whale-watching, I don't care but for the love of christ, buddha, and the flying spaghetti monster

SHUT

THE FUCK

UP

PS: Niggers. (I think that covers every racial, ethnic, religious and gender slur category now)