Oversight by HU12 for Durova Barnstars, They really do want them, and she still really *is *popular Options

Is this what it has come to? Please

I want to hand a barnstar to everyone who played a significant role in this major undertaking. Excellent work! Please list the usernames of people who deserve that thanks. DurovaCharge! 22:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Kohs first commented on the lack of responses at 8 Dec UMT. So did JCache, and me (who made cricket noises). Suddenly there was a pre-dated post from HU12, giving names for candidates for the barnstar.

Off hand, Jeffpw and Save_Us did an excellent job doing a large chunk of the cleanup, couldn't have been easy. I'm sure many more were involved in the cleanup portion of this, as there were ton of links. Hope they come forward. Others, of course, MER-C A. B. Mr.Z-man.. "mee toos", im sure are welcome. --Hu12 (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[b]

# (cur) (last) 07:00, 8 December 2007 Beagel (Talk | contribs) (50,508 bytes) (→Please replace references - apology) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:47, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (50,127 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:46, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (50,094 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:41, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (49,876 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:40, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (49,860 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due - agree) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:06, 7 December 2007 Durova (Talk | contribs) (49,507 bytes) (Credit where credit is due) (undo)

It really has come down to such small things for them (or her).

I'm convinced HU12 is either Durova or Virgin Griffiths, who she was doing some joint wikiscanner (or perhaps other counter-cyber-whatever) work with.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Is this what it has come to? Please (I copied my post from another thread)

I want to hand a barnstar to everyone who played a significant role in this major undertaking. Excellent work! Please list the usernames of people who deserve that thanks. DurovaCharge! 22:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

(***** SOUNDS OF CRICKETS *****)

Shortly after this, the page was oversighted and refactored with a history of a submission of offers, at 22:40 7 Dec UMT. Kohs first commented on the lack of responses at 8 Dec UMT.

It really has come down to such small things for them (or her).

I'm convinced HU12 is either Durova or Virgin Griffiths, who she was doing some joint wikiscanner (or perhaps other counter-cyber-whatever) work with.

that Durova gave up admin-ity so easily tells me there's more than a 0.1000 chance that she has at least one more account with admin rights.

Hu12 is as crooked as it gets, too.

She already "took the 5th" about "having sock accounts" to fight other sock accounts.

And let's face it - almost no one other than the severely-something'ed Jehochman (back in the good old partnership days) would make an oversight to soothe her ego (yes, yes, I know he's not an admin yet, but that's not the point). It's excessive use of oversight for anyone to do that - and ps: since when did HU12 get oversight powers? And ps: Durova's had them too, which is how she was able to refactor and hide part of her ANI pre-arbcom !! Debate case.

Oversight powers are supra-admin powers. Not just anyone has them. SV has them, but Durova wasn't supposed to - and HU12 is far too new for them. This all stinks.

It still could be Virgil Griffiths. It would be normal if he got some powers on wiki as part of his "pay" for helping Durova trip up innocent bystanders who edit via IP.

But I think it was Durova. It would be too embarassing to ask anyone, even your silly synchophant, to create fake proposers for your barnstars.

Or maybe they share the HU12 account. It has no personality. Maybe they share it like SV and Jayjg share Crum375 (which they do, oh do they ever).


This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Is this what it has come to? Please

I want to hand a barnstar to everyone who played a significant role in this major undertaking. Excellent work! Please list the usernames of people who deserve that thanks. DurovaCharge! 22:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Kohs first commented on the lack of responses at 8 Dec UMT. So did JCache, and me (who made cricket noises). Suddenly there was a pre-dated post from HU12, giving names for candidates for the barnstar.

Off hand, Jeffpw and Save_Us did an excellent job doing a large chunk of the cleanup, couldn't have been easy. I'm sure many more were involved in the cleanup portion of this, as there were ton of links. Hope they come forward. Others, of course, MER-C A. B. Mr.Z-man.. "mee toos", im sure are welcome. --Hu12 (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[b]

# (cur) (last) 07:00, 8 December 2007 Beagel (Talk | contribs) (50,508 bytes) (→Please replace references - apology) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:47, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (50,127 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:46, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (50,094 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:41, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (49,876 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:40, 7 December 2007 Hu12 (Talk | contribs) (49,860 bytes) (→Credit where credit is due - agree) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 22:06, 7 December 2007 Durova (Talk | contribs) (49,507 bytes) (Credit where credit is due) (undo)

It really has come down to such small things for them (or her).

I'm convinced HU12 is either Durova or Virgin Griffiths, who she was doing some joint wikiscanner (or perhaps other counter-cyber-whatever) work with.

Is Hu12 the one that started out editing nothing but sex stuff? That was pointed out to me just recently. I thought maybe that would have been a sock of some sexy girl; maybe someone that worked with Jimmy Wales at his former site?


Sorry, that is FT2 !!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by WhispersOfWisdom:

Is Hu12 the one that started out editing nothing but sex stuff? That was pointed out to me just recently. I thought maybe that would have been a sock of some sexy girl; maybe someone that worked with Jimmy Wales at his former site?

Then its either Virgil Griffiths, or Durova trying to toss her scent off the account. Or, maybe they share it.

Normally, Durova wouldn't take a person who likes to edit sex stuff on as a protogee. She usually wants to kill these people.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Is Hu12 the one that started out editing nothing but sex stuff? That was pointed out to me just recently. I thought maybe that would have been a sock of some sexy girl; maybe someone that worked with Jimmy Wales at his former site?

Then its either Virgil Griffiths, or Durova trying to toss her scent off the account. Or, maybe they share it.

Normally, Durova wouldn't take a person who likes to edit sex stuff on as a protogee. She usually wants to kill these people.

Sorry...I was just told that I was thinking of FT2. Maybe a former Jimmy associate?

was that actual "oversight" or was that a typical Crum375-style "delete and selectively restore the edits you like".

Sorry...I was just told that I was thinking of FT2. Maybe a former Jimmy associate?

Why does someone have to have been related to Bomis to edit sex articles? Why would a former associate of Jimmy be so vested in Durova's fragile ego that they's make three complex edits" to borrow her terminology to a simple proposal for barnstars (three careful edits, with links to names). NO WAY.

The only person who'd bother to refactor history to cover up her lagging popularity is Durova. If I'm correct here, and this ever is dicovered (and she is bound to out herself in a bigger way eventually) there will be hell to pay. Not from us. Who cares about us. But most of Wikipedia is pissed off at her. Not to mention that the mainstream press has been following this tory. They haven't reported about this, but they know who she is. And when she comes out as being Durova, it will be a major dirtstorm the likes of which you've never seen. No wonder Angela resigned from this playground. She's serious. (and no wonder she didn't speak directly to Durova).

Edit 1

:Off hand, [[User:Jeffpw|Jeffpw]] and [[User:Save Us 229|<font color="007FFF">Save_Us</font>]] did an excellent job doing a large chunk of the cleanup, couldn't have been easy. I'm sure many more were involved in the cleanup, as there were ton of links. Hope they come forward.--[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] ([[User talk:Hu12|talk]]) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit 2

:Off hand, [[User:Jeffpw|Jeffpw]] and [[User:Save Us 229|<font color="007FFF">Save_Us</font>]] did an excellent job doing a large chunk of the cleanup, couldn't have been easy. I'm sure many more were involved in the cleanup portion of this, as there were ton of links. Hope they come forward.--[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] ([[User talk:Hu12|talk]]) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit 3

:Off hand, [[User:Jeffpw|Jeffpw]] and [[User:Save Us 229|<font color="007FFF">Save_Us</font>]] did an excellent job doing a large chunk of the cleanup, couldn't have been easy. I'm sure many more were involved in the cleanup portion of this, as there were ton of links. Hope they come forward. Others, of course, [[User:MER-C|MER-C]] [[User:A. B.|A. B.]] [[User:Mr.Z-man|<font color="#056366">Mr.</font>]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|<font color="#056625">'''Z-'''</font><font color="#054F66">man</font>]]</font>''.. --[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] ([[User talk:Hu12|talk]]) 22:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

not to say that hu12 is or isnt durova, but i've seen many instances on WP of people who are compelled to sychophantically groom other's WP pages in defense.

crum375 isn't SV, but is a regular delete-restore groomer of SV's nits.

Any opp to remove vandalism also was an opp to remove edits by SV herself that were compromising. baby and bathwater.

Don't you think Crum could have lent her his account? Crum is supposed to be a guy, but sometimes "he" is very much like SV.

On the same note, HU12 seems to be either a shared account, with a male (maybe VG) or Durova's own sock.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Don't you think Crum could have lent her his account? Crum is supposed to be a guy, but sometimes "he" is very much like SV.

On the same note, HU12 seems to be either a shared account, with a male (maybe VG) or Durova's own sock.

hard to prove anything - unlike durova i won't prove something without actual facts. could be.

here's what I "know" about Crum375.

He/she started out objectively editing, and actually came in conflict with jayjg/sv early on. he ( i think a he) probably crossed SV's paths on Lockerbie. Crum375 is mostly an aero article editor, and quite in interest in air crash forensics.

I believe he just gained strong sympathy for SV/others for what he believed to be his wikifriends getting "attacked". When our friends are shown to be doing something wrong, we often knee-jerk to their defense, unconditionally, and call it "attacks". human nature.

He's compromised WP ethics to do what he thinks is the ends justifying the means. Just as SV does with her Lockerbie/Salinger/PETA POV Warrior schtick. His entire SPA now is to defend team SV.

I dont think Crum has socks - he doesn't need them as long as the Arbcom/SV team is using his wikifriendship to defend all things they do, no matter if the means dont justify the ends.

we all do things that we feel justify the ends. i'm probably oversympathetic of the people i am appalled at, though. i'd like to think i have some sympathy for the weakness of man, while equally hoping those who let their weaknesses lead to the wrong ends will be removed from the positions that give them the ability to perpetuate those wrongs.

some of the sleuthing conclusions i read here are the flip-side of the fallacies that led WP to be able to ban me as a wordbomb sock- overstock meatpuppet. let's be better than "them". let's objectively "prove" such things.

This post has been edited by Piperdown:

let's be better than "them". let's objectively "prove" such things.

Oh I hate having to be better than "them" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

On another note, in putting this stuff up, I've wound up with some nifty cookies, some which are keyloggers (serving-sys.com - and I had about 6 variations of this beaut), and others the routine session tracking stuff.

I clean my cookies pretty regularly when I've had anything to do with Wikipedia, and I'm finding that I wind up with scads of them lately. Not editing Wikipedia, which I haven't done for ages. But just looking up diffs and things. I should reset my settings so all new cookies give me a flag - actually I'll do that now.

I'd bet that Jehocman's contribtution to sleuthing was teaching them to use cookies for tracking devices, so they could monitor web browser activity (if not insert keyloggers) on some pages (maybe certain WP pages) to monitor supposed vandals.

For the sake of the argument, Texas jurisprudence ruled that cookies were a form of cyberstalking, a while back. I'm just saying...

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Wait, this doesn't make sense. There is no record of any deletions, and oversight isn't reversible. Are we really saying that some developer is so concerned about Durova that they would blatantly fabricate an edit, or is there some way to do this I'm missing?

crum375 isn't SV, but is a regular delete-restore groomer of SV's nits.

Crum375 was, by her admission, an early student and friend of the husband and wife aerobatics team, The French Connection. Their school opened at an upstate NY airport in the 70s. They both died in a training accident in 2000.

Crum's also interested in scuba diving and winter sports. My impression is she is a middle-aged adventuress who feels a certain kinship with SV.

crum375 isn't SV, but is a regular delete-restore groomer of SV's nits.

Crum375 was, by her admission, an early student and friend of the husband and wife aerobatics team, The French Connection. Their school opened at an upstate NY airport in the 70s. They both died in a training accident in 2000.

Crum's also interested in scuba diving and winter sports. My impression is she is a middle-aged adventuress who feels a certain kinship with SV.

so under WP logic that makes her(?) a French Connection meatpuppet.

Alert Det Popeye Doyle....

Wait, this doesn't make sense. There is no record of any deletions, and oversight isn't reversible. Are we really saying that some developer is so concerned about Durova that they would blatantly fabricate an edit, or is there some way to do this I'm missing?

All I know is that (on one of the WR pages) Kohs mentioned it on the 8th, with the comment "no one wants her barnstars", Cache answered, then I came along and made the joke about cricket noises.

Suddenly there was an answer, dated the evening of the 7th, with three edits, as I described.

I have no idea how that happened.

But for sure, when I made that cricket edit, there was nothing online.

Maybe one hour or 30 minutes later? It had been there since last night.

Go figure.

Is Hu12 the one that started out editing nothing but sex stuff? That was pointed out to me just recently. I thought maybe that would have been a sock of some sexy girl; maybe someone that worked with Jimmy Wales at his former site?

Sorry, that is FT2 !!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

I've missed something here. What do we know about FT2, given that he/she is a shoe-in for ArbCom?

Wait, this doesn't make sense. There is no record of any deletions, and oversight isn't reversible. Are we really saying that some developer is so concerned about Durova that they would blatantly fabricate an edit, or is there some way to do this I'm missing?

All I know is that (on one of the WR pages) Kohs mentioned it on the 8th, with the comment "no one wants her barnstars", Cache answered, then I came along and made the joke about cricket noises.

Suddenly there was an answer, dated the evening of the 7th, with three edits, as I described.

I have no idea how that happened.

But for sure, when I made that cricket edit, there was nothing online.

Maybe one hour or 30 minutes later? It had been there since last night.

Go figure.

Even if something funky was going on, there was no oversight involved. Oversight can't change the times of edits.

All I know is that (on one of the WR pages) Kohs mentioned it on the 8th, with the comment "no one wants her barnstars", Cache answered, then I came along and made the joke about cricket noises.

Suddenly there was an answer, dated the evening of the 7th, with three edits, as I described.

I have no idea how that happened.

But for sure, when I made that cricket edit, there was nothing online.

Maybe one hour or 30 minutes later? It had been there since last night.

Go figure.

Even if something funky was going on, there was no oversight involved. Oversight can't change the times of edits.

I know there's something going on; I distinctly remember seeing the page with no responses a significant amount of time after those edits claim to have been made. But it's not as simple as "oh look, Hu12 is a Durova sock", and we need to figure out what actually happened.

Do not forget that Durova was Hu12's "admin coach" and his RFA nominator.

And when she comes out as being Durova, it will be a major dirtstorm the likes of which you've never seen.

When I compared the contribution histories of Durova and HU12, I came across at least a few occasions when they were editing at the very same times. That doesn't really disprove anything, but it's not typical.

I reckon shared idiosyncrasies of usage to be the most reliable guide of identity. Blind partisanship is a good reason to investigate the possibility, but isn't particularly rare or information-heavy, is consciously motivated and can appear for a number of reasons.

This post has been edited by Proabivouac:

To be clear, Hu12 does NOT have oversight access.

This post has been edited by Snowey:

Wait, this doesn't make sense. There is no record of any deletions, and oversight isn't reversible. Are we really saying that some developer is so concerned about Durova that they would blatantly fabricate an edit, or is there some way to do this I'm missing?

Speaking of developers, I noticed that Brion VIBBER recently removed all developer group memberships on enwiki because it is obsolete. I tried to find out when this was decided by visiting various public wikis and mailing lists, but so far I've found no clue.

m:wiki/Developer says the list of developers is "is likely to be very out-of-date". The corresponding m:Talk:Developers says it has been moved to http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Developers.

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developers show that 4 are also Wikia employees.

That makes me wonder, who all has root access to WP, and are some of them currently Wikia employees?

D[b]urova and HU12, I came across at least a few occasions when they were editing at the very same times. That doesn't really disprove anything, but it's not typical.

I reckon shared idiosyncrasies of usage to be the most reliable guide of identity. Blind partisanship is a good reason to investigate the possibility, but isn't particularly rare or information-heavy, is consciously motivated and can appear for a number of reasons.

Can you clarify if you mean that this would prove similtude, or asimilitude. Sorry, I didn't "get" it.

AND I think I was wrong here. I looked at Koh's diff, which was a "diff", not the "current" so maybe I "jumped the gun", on the "time change" thing. If this was a red-herring, I apologize to all I've concerned with this.

On the other hand, maybe I wasn't wrong. (?)

Can you clarify if you mean that this would prove similtude, or asimilitude. Sorry, I didn't "get" it.

Overlapping series of edits by both accounts, to the point where they're coming in with the same time stamp,would generally indicate two different people, unless someone is deliberately logging bogus counterevidence. For example, if we have a desktop and a laptop, the first on a cable or DSL and the latter connected to a neighbor by wireless, we might wait to save the edits until both are ready, then fire them off at the same time, just so that potential investigators will see the shared time stamp.

I haven't seen enough text from Hu12 to say whether or not he/she writes like Durova.

This post has been edited by Proabivouac:

Ok, I wasn't sure whether you were pointing out that the shared time stamps meant the person(s) were online at the same time (same) or online at the same time (not).

Hu12 doesn't seem to have much of an online personality, as opposed to Durova's which is very notable.

Ok, I wasn't sure whether you were pointing out that the shared time stamps meant the person(s) were online at the same time (same) or online at the same time (not).

Hu12 doesn't seem to have much of an online personality, as opposed to Durova's which is very notable.

Hu12 edits quite a few articles about stock market issues, financial instruments and SEO issues and it has been suggested in this thread that there was some connection to him/her and the Chicago Stock exchange, where Jimbo started his illustrious career.

So, even if Hu12 keeps a low profile, there's probably something there...I don't think that this is a Durova sock, but they do work together....

Hu12 edits quite a few articles about stock market issues, financial instruments and SEO issues and it has been suggested in this thread

*I* could make many intelligent and insightful edits to articles addressing stock market issues, financial instruments and SEO issues.

That wouldn't make me part of the Chicago exchange.

That wouldn't mean I knew Jimbo when he was there.

The CBOT is a huge world exchange, comprising thousands of people. It's not a small elite team. And this person never necessarily worked there.

It could be anyone editing as Hu12.

I think it might be Jehochman, wanting an admin without his name. Still could be Durova too.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

I see lots of edits on futures and forwards. You don't even need to have been working with these to know about them. I don't and I do.

You might be talking about this accusation that Hu12 worked for the futures industry.

Well, I don't disagree with you, but that page is only supposed to be used within our site. It is a paid resource that we have an agreement with them. Its obvious from what you say above that you are part of the futures industry and have your OWN AGENDA for these pages.

Hu12 was simply doing "the old 1-2" auto-revert and taunting some poor newbie with it.

Still doesn't mean that he/she/it works in futures or forwards.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

HU12 is a postal code in the UK for Hull, a city which is a shipping and trading hub in the U.K.. I can see that there are many big banks and shipping companies with establishments there. This doesn't even mean that Wikipedia's "Hu12" is in the UK. Probably Hu12 worked in London (or maybe around Hull HU12), for some financial institution, just like people from the other possible 190 different nationalities. HU12 is a postal code for the "The City" part of London, where all the banking and financial stuff goes. The name use is nostaligic. Probably he moved back to his home country (probably the U.S.) is using the old post code. A Brit wouldn't use a British post code for an ID (well, one U.K. government official did that, and it was foolish, as he got desysopped and accused of sockpuppetry, but don't get me started). Anyways, Hu12 is American.

Banks and trading companies
BP Power Trading Ltd, Saltend, Hull, HU12 8DS
ETA Transport and Trading Group Ltd - Hull. HU12 8EE
Barclays Bank PLC Market Place Patrington Hull North Humberside HU12 0RB United Kingdom
Ehlp Holdings Ltd. HU12 0TY, 6219539,
HSBC Bank plc, 9 Market Place, Hedon, Hull, East Yorkshire, HU12 8JA

Also non-banks have HU12 as an addressing indicator
Association of Drainage Authorities - 18 Market Place, Patrington, HULL, East Yorkshire, HU12 ORB.
Hedon Library, St Augustine Gate, Hedon, Hull, HU12 8EX,
Communication Services 22 New Road, Hedon, Hull, North Humberside, HU12 8EN.

Hmmm, someone who worked in trading, ifinance, in the UK... hmmmmmmm.... not English......Ok - know who I think it is? Pardon my Durova-like theorizing. Our own lovely self-absorbed, TMI, media-chasing Durova clone DAVID SHANKBONE.

Who is David Shankbone? The first thing you should know about me is I’m like nobody else you’ve ever met. My blood is the only connection between George Bernard Shaw and Jane Bowles. I'm a silly bastard, true of heart and I want the best for those in my life. I do not compete with friends or family. I've driven a motorcycle across Cuba, been a paparazzo in New York, worked at Enron in London, skydived over Italy and camped in the Amazon basin for a week to get over an intense fear of insects; it didn't work. I saw death on that trip. It's not the first time: I found a suicide in the woods on New Year's when I was 13 (a boy my age named Mike Drinkwater). By serendipity I found out why he did it. I live in the East Village y hablo Español. I have a scar on my face and a tattoo on my shoulder. David Bowie and The Libertines are all-time faves (I'm always rooting for Pete Doherty to pull through). In the fourth grade the nuns at my Catholic school told my mother in a parent-teacher conference I wanted them dead. I did not. I'm a big guy (6'3), athletic (185#), slim (32W x 34L) and pale (25% Irish/25% Dutch/50% German). I'm glad I'm getting older (wiser) and I disdain youth. I wear a suit to the office where I manage the assets of two of the founding families of New York City. I've moved 33 times amongst 3 countries (US, GB and ES), 6 states (NJ, GA, CO, TX, PA, NY) and 17 cities. Airline family, not military. Then it was me. Everything before NYC is forgotten. I like to travel off the beaten path. Happy endings never bore me.

Currently in jpost.com, being called by the Israeli press "our editor in Wikipedia" (grimace). He is writing for Wikinews, and who proudly brags for having worked for Enron, which any sane ethical person would never do. Enron had an establishment in Hull Hu12, before it tanked from all that CORRUPTION (cough, cough). Shankbone worked for Enron U.K.

That's my guess. Because most people don't give a hoot about Durova this week. Hu12 is too much like her to let her drop. So would be David Shankbone - and how wise of him not to be an asshat-ty administrator in his own name. That's one better than Durova. I'll give him that.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

HU12 is a postal code for the "The City" part of London, where all the banking and financial stuff goes.

No, postal codes for the City all start EC. HU12 is in Hull, a city hundreds of miles away from London. There may be a few financial institutions in HU12, but nothing major. So there are branches of Barclay's and HSBC banks there. Big deal - they have hundreds of branches each, all over the country.

HU12 is a postal code for the "The City" part of London, where all the banking and financial stuff goes.

No, postal codes for the City all start EC. HU12 is in Hull, a city hundreds of miles away from London. There may be a few financial institutions in HU12, but nothing major. So there are branches of Barclay's and HSBC banks there. Big deal - they have hundreds of branches each, all over the country.

Correct, I presumed while I was first typing - checked and have already corrected by the time you'd posted this. Thanks. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Hull looks to be a shipping central. 18% of UK imports pass through it and 15% of all seabourne trade (if you trust WP statistics)

Having made that distinction, Shankbone worked for Enron in the UK, which had an establishment in Hull before it tanked due to (sound familiar?) massive corruption, and poor decisions based on hubris and nearly psychotic egomania.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Having made that distinction, Shankbone worked for Enron in the UK, which had an establishment in Hull before it tanked due to (sound familiar?) massive corruption, and poor decisions based on hubris and nearly psychotic egomania.

Where is the source that Enron UK had an establishment in Hull?

Having made that distinction, Shankbone worked for Enron in the UK, which had an establishment in Hull before it tanked due to (sound familiar?) massive corruption, and poor decisions based on hubris and nearly psychotic egomania.

Where is the source that Enron UK had an establishment in Hull?

You are right, Enron was established in Enron House in Grosvenor Place. Which is where DS said he worked (London). Enron did have offices near HU12, concerning the Enron Teesside Operations Ltd near Hull, in Humberside. They doubtless had more holdings in that region. (but so what?)

I'm using logic with lots of holes in it, also known as "vast sweeping presumptions". But he's a former Enron trader, and HU12 is one of the UK's biggest commodity shipping hubs. It sounds at least marginally plausible. And it's a theory, not an indictment. I haven't suggested he be banned, or what-have-you.

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Wait, this doesn't make sense. There is no record of any deletions, and oversight isn't reversible. Are we really saying that some developer is so concerned about Durova that they would blatantly fabricate an edit, or is there some way to do this I'm missing?

Speaking of developers, I noticed that Brion VIBBER recently removed all developer group memberships on enwiki because it is obsolete. I tried to find out when this was decided by visiting various public wikis and mailing lists, but so far I've found no clue.

m:wiki/Developer says the list of developers is "is likely to be very out-of-date". The corresponding m:Talk:Developers says it has been moved to http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Developers.

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developers show that 4 are also Wikia employees.

That makes me wonder, who all has root access to WP, and are some of them currently Wikia employees?

There's a distinction here. There are the people who create the MediaWiki software; even if the case could be made that this is controlled by Wikia, there's no reason a non-profit couldn't then use it. But there's another class of users, those with root acess to the Wikipedia servers... and they are also called developers. Being in one group does not mean you're in the other.

HU12 is a postal code for the "The City" part of London, where all the banking and financial stuff goes.

No, postal codes for the City all start EC. HU12 is in Hull, a city hundreds of miles away from London. There may be a few financial institutions in HU12, but nothing major. So there are branches of Barclay's and HSBC banks there. Big deal - they have hundreds of branches each, all over the country.

Lackey seems to be a bit overzealous in geographical correlations, hull-london, IBM Global Services-DC, etc.

To borrow from the Housemartins, "London 4, Hull 0". WR 2, Lackey 0 on geography.

Don't depend on WP for your geographical sleuthing, DL !!

Has Hu12's hivemind activity against the Byrne thing been shanked on Brandt's truth-in-admintizing page yet?

Actually that smtp address of macys is indeed routed via their IT services provider, IBM Global Services's main hub out of DC. That's in Research Triangle Park (RTP)in North Carolina. The tracenet on that Macy's smtp does indeed mention DC. Go check.

So if Felonius Monk is "consulting for Macy's" there's a decent chance there's an IBM connection. Global Services farms out their people to all sorts of companies. Lar also works for IBM. Whatever that means. Maybe something. Maybe nothing.

I still think that Hu12 could be Dave S. He could be a few other people.

Conjecture is not conviction (unless you are Durova).

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

Actually that smtp address of macys is indeed routed via their IT services provider, IBM Global Services's main hub out of DC. That's in Research Triangle Park (RTP)in North Carolina. The tracenet on that Macy's smtp does indeed mention DC. Go check.

So if Felonius Monk is "consulting for Macy's" there's a decent chance there's an IBM connection. Global Services farms out their people to all sorts of companies. Lar also works for IBM. Whatever that means. Maybe something. Maybe nothing.

I still think that Hu12 could be Dave S. He could be a few other people.

Conjecture is not conviction (unless you are Durova).

so does anyone's tracert that goes through a Wash DC office prove a nefarious US Govt conspiracy? Jeez, it's tinfoil hat time. I really recommend you stay away from AOL then, they might be in on it too. I think you're putting out some very good stuff here, but some of it is not sticking to the wall. Happy sleuthing nonetheless.

Modern Pro Journalism just isn't cutting it, and needs all the help it can get.

so does anyone's tracert that goes through a Wash DC office prove a nefarious US Govt conspiracy?

Your words, not mine. I never suggested that in this thread.

I said it went through the IBM Global Services offices near DC. "Skip" (who I was told was FM) "consults" for Macy's. IBM Global Services is their principal consulting provider. Lar works for IBM. That the link I was trying to make.

Would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

I really recommend you stay away from AOL then, they might be in on it too.

Actually, if you want to get into it, Level 3, AOL and SBC Global all cut deals with the NSA, which *is* a government conspiracy, even if the stated intent is to combat terrorism.

Not that this has anything to do with Wikipedia (I hope) - but whatever.

You use THATpicture and tell *I* am wearing a tin foil hat? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Happy sleuthing.

Happy judging.

I think you're putting out some very good stuff here, but some of it is not sticking to the wall.

(IMG:http://detectovision.com/pics/spaghetti_on_the_wall.jpg)

This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:

There's a distinction here. There are the people who create the MediaWiki software; even if the case could be made that this is controlled by Wikia, there's no reason a non-profit couldn't then use it. But there's another class of users, those with root acess to the Wikipedia servers... and they are also called developers. Being in one group does not mean you're in the other.

Yeah, I know. I also didn't read the mediawiki page close enough.
"Those with "root" or "shell" access might not really be developers, but rather system administrators of Wikimedia servers, where the Subversion repository is stored."

root access:
jeluf Jens Frank
mark Mark Bergsma
midom Domas Mituzas
river River Tarnell
tstarling Tim Starling

shell access:
avar Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
erik Erik Moeller
hashar Ashar Voultoiz

As far as I can tell, none of the above are currently employed by Wikia, Inc. River Tarnell and Tim Starling did previously work for them, though.