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> Fundraising Survey (2009)
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Jon Awbrey
post Wed 13th October 2010, 7:50pm
Post #41


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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) *

Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded?


Good Grief, I'd been worried what happened to Peter Demon lately, thinking he might be ill, and now I see it's worse than I thought. noooo.gif ohnoes.gif scream.gif Someone please tear that ring out of his hand before SlimVirgin tips him into the SlimVolcano.

Jon unhappy.gif sad.gif
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SB_Johnny
post Wed 13th October 2010, 8:56pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) *

Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded?

Wish I could, but apparently these things are timed to exclude Americans with jobs.
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jayvdb
post Thu 14th October 2010, 7:56am
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 13th October 2010, 8:56pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) *

Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded?

Wish I could, but apparently these things are timed to exclude Americans with jobs.

And 99% of Australians. sad.gif
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SB_Johnny
post Thu 14th October 2010, 2:41pm
Post #44


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QUOTE(jayvdb @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:56am) *

QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 13th October 2010, 8:56pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) *

Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded?

Wish I could, but apparently these things are timed to exclude Americans with jobs.

And 99% of Australians. sad.gif

Maybe you should mention that on the mailinglist.

Assuming they haven't banned you, of course. laugh.gif
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thekohser
post Thu 14th October 2010, 5:52pm
Post #45


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Well, I really have to hand it to the Wikimedia community. Maybe they are turning over a new leaf and becoming more cooperative and open.

For example, here is David Gerard not calling me a dick:

QUOTE
On 13 October 2010 14:42, Gregory Kohs <thekohser at gmail.com> wrote:

> I find it interesting that some 18 hours after Gerard's notification (and my
> posting a comment on The Australian's page), still not a single comment has
> been approved for publication. I wonder why that is? Is there some
> official policy within the "pro-Free Culture" movement that mandates
> suppression of critical viewpoints of the movement?


The answer obviously implied by your phrasing of your question is
indeed the correct one: it's because Wikimedia controls Rupert Murdoch
and News International as well as all those other newspapers. It
couldn't possibly be that you're just a dick. After all, my comment
wasn't published either.

- d.


And, I did actually have a few minutes to present my question about the 2010 Donor Study in the Sue Gardner "office hours" meeting on IRC. I think it went over very, very well!

QUOTE
/join #wikimedia-office

*** sgardner [~sgardner@wikimedia/Sue-Gardner] has joined #wikimedia-office
<Thekohser> QUESTION: The recently completed 2010 Donor Survey, by Q2 Consulting... was a competitive bid put out for that work, and if not, why not? If so, by what criteria were Q2 Consulting selected? How much did the project cost the Foundation?
*** killiondude changed the topic to: Office hours with Sue Gardner (Executive Director) | See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours for more info.
<killiondude> BOLD and all that.
<Nihiltres> ...
* guillom puts killiondude in /italics/
<killiondude> :-D
*** jowen [~jowen@wikimedia/James-Owen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
*** jowen_ is now known as jowen
<guillom> Twisted.
<Jyothis> hello everyone
*** daisokawa [~disokawa@216.38.130.161] has joined #wikimedia-office
<Nihiltres> thekohser: I'm guessing on that last one that if no, it's because fair competitive bids are themselves a good deal of work
<sgardner> Okay! Good morning, folks. (Or at least, it is morning for me.)
*** mode/#wikimedia-office [+v sgardner] by ChanServ
*** bawolff [~bawolff@wikinews/bawolff] has joined #wikimedia-office
*** dphelps [~dphelps@216.38.130.166] has joined #wikimedia-office
*** mode/#wikimedia-office [+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.68.87.42.110] by Jamesofur
*** Thekohser was kicked from #wikimedia-office by Jamesofur [Thekohser]


For some reason, I lost my connection to the IRC shortly after that, and then my entire Firefox browser froze up, and then my computer crashes. I get a hard crash on my computer about once every three weeks or so, so I am certain that it couldn't have possibly had anything to do with the Foundation's access to my IP address or such.
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thekohser
post Thu 14th October 2010, 6:08pm
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A couple of other people ("meatpuppets" of mine?) asked the question again, anyway.

Here is Sue Gardner's irresponsible response:

QUOTE
1.
[11:02:50] <sgardner> So I think the question is, did we run an RFP for the process of picking a firm to help us with the fundraising. And the answer is no, we did not. The Wikimedia Foundation doesn't have a policy for when we run RFPs versus when we have less-formal processes for selecting vendors. I think that's completely fine: there are a variety of factors that go into the decision each time, and I don't think it would be easy to write a really good,
2.
[11:02:51] <sgardner> robust policy designed to dictate the circumstances that require an RFP.
3.
[11:03:01] <sgardner> In this instance, we didn't run an RFP. We chose a firm that we thought would do a great job for Wikimedia – in part because we felt they could work well with our community, in an open setting. I don't regret that, and I don't think it was the wrong way to handle it.
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Versa
post Thu 14th October 2010, 6:22pm
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Did anyone ask either:

How much did the survey cost?

or

Who approved the expenditure?

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thekohser
post Thu 14th October 2010, 6:25pm
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More details then followed.

QUOTE
<sgardner> That's the gist, on Q2.
<sgardner> (Q2 is the name of the firm.)
<sgardner> Any follow-up questions on that -- I'd be happy to answer them, if there are any.,

<Nemo_bis> Do you usually run an RFP above some spending limit?

<sgardner> No, not necessarily.
<sgardner> (Nemo_bis)


<Werespielchqrs> Do you have a policy on what size of contract can be awarded without a bidding process?

<sgardner> The thing is that dollar-amount isn't necessarily the best indicator of whether an RFP is required/helpful.

<sgardner> Same question, Werespielchqrs, and it's the same answer.

<Nemo_bis> You can have exceptions. :-)

<sgardner> I think it's possible that in the fullness of time, we will develop policy for when to run an RFP.

<Nemo_bis> Obviously we should consider that time to run an RFP is a cost.

<sgardner> For example, at the CBC we certainly did have policy on this.

<Jamesofur> FYI: The log will be posted (unedited) smile.gif

<sgardner> But Nemo_bis is correct: it comes at a cost. Running an RFP is complicated and time-consuming, particularly if individual staffers need to run their own RFPs every time, rather than having support from for example a Purchasing Department.

<sgardner> In many ways, large organizations are better suited to running RFPs relative to small organizations.

<killiondude> How much did the research study cost, by chance?

<sgardner> I don't know how much it cost.
<sgardner> (Which means it was not a very, very large amount of money.)


And "Jimmy has never done anything wrong", right Sue?
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thekohser
post Thu 14th October 2010, 7:45pm
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This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from "Office Hours":

QUOTE
[13:08] * Jamesofur sets mode: +v sgardner
[13:08] * Abbasjnr (c4c9daf1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.241) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)�)
[13:08] * Sky2042_afk (~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:08] <Dakdadaah> Good evening from me
[13:08] <+sgardner> It's true! Someone is always awake :-)
[13:08] <killiondude> Why was he banned? I didn't think he was being obtuse.
[13:09] <aude> good morning sgardner!
[13:09] <killiondude> He actually came in to #wikimedia asking if that was okay to ask, and a few people thought it was okay.
[13:09] <Theo10011> Hi
[13:09] <dgultekin> Hey Theo
[13:09] * dferg (d4808a82@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:09] <+sgardner> Hi Katie, Theo :-)
[13:09] <+sgardner> Dakdadaah :-)
[13:09] * michi_cc (michi@pdpc/supporter/student/michi-cc) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <+sgardner> Steven's going to answer killiondude's question about Greg Kohs.
[13:10] <+sgardner> ooh, he is answering.
[13:10] <Nihiltres> killiondude: his question isn't intrinsically bad, but it's not helpful
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:10] <killiondude> Are these office hours ever helpful, Nihiltres?

[13:10] * DiegoGrez (ElPadrino@186.20.34.121) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] * apergos (~ariel@wiktionary/ArielGlenn) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * meganrhernandez (~megan@216.38.130.162) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * erwin (~erwin85@wikimedia/erwin) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Nihiltres> killiondude: I like to think so
[13:11] * Dragonfly6-7 (~test@bas1-montreal48-1176173479.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <+sgardner> While Steven is typing, maybe I will say some other stuff also.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.
[13:11] <killiondude> He was told to use IRC.

[13:11] * PeterSymonds (~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Dragonfly6-7> oh, but was kicked off?
[13:12] <@Jamesofur> the IRC discussion was meant for the mailing list as a whole

[13:12] <dferg> what's the topic for today's office hours, please? Thank you.
[13:12] * Abbasjnr (c4c9dafe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.254) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.
[13:12] <killiondude> w/e, i don't care too much. I just find it disappointing. :-)

[13:12] * Theo10011 waves at dgultekin
[13:12] <+sgardner> So. The board met over the weekend, and SJ has published four resolutions from the meeting: one on Movement Roles II, one on trustee term length, one on fundraising principles and one on the five-year-targets. So I am happy to talk about that, or about any other topic associated with the board meeting.
[13:13] <+sgardner> And, I am happy to talk about any other topic as well, and I'm happy to answer the Greg Kohs question if you folks want me to.


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thekohser
post Thu 14th October 2010, 8:51pm
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I also learned that fielding "fair competitive bids" is very time consuming and "a good deal of work".

Strange, I issue an RFP to multiple vendors about once a week, and they take about 2 hours each to write, plus allowing vendors about 2-3 days to respond. These are for (typically) $35K to $50K research projects.
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Jon Awbrey
post Thu 14th October 2010, 9:04pm
Post #51


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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 4:51pm) *

I also learned that fielding "fair competitive bids" is very time consuming and "a good deal of work".

Strange, I issue an RFP to multiple vendors about once a week, and they take about 2 hours each to write, plus allowing vendors about 2-3 days to respond. These are for (typically) $35K to $50K research projects.


Funny how this New-Fangled Participatory Bureaucratic Runaround 2.0 is so much like the Old-Fangled Non-Participatory Bureaucratic Runaround 1.0 …

Jon tongue.gif
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TungstenCarbide
post Thu 14th October 2010, 10:06pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 7:45pm) *

This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from "Office Hours":

QUOTE
[13:08] * Jamesofur sets mode: +v sgardner
[13:08] * Abbasjnr (c4c9daf1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.241) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)�)
[13:08] * Sky2042_afk (~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:08] <Dakdadaah> Good evening from me
[13:08] <+sgardner> It's true! Someone is always awake :-)
[13:08] <killiondude> Why was he banned? I didn't think he was being obtuse.
[13:09] <aude> good morning sgardner!
[13:09] <killiondude> He actually came in to #wikimedia asking if that was okay to ask, and a few people thought it was okay.
[13:09] <Theo10011> Hi
[13:09] <dgultekin> Hey Theo
[13:09] * dferg (d4808a82@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:09] <+sgardner> Hi Katie, Theo :-)
[13:09] <+sgardner> Dakdadaah :-)
[13:09] * michi_cc (michi@pdpc/supporter/student/michi-cc) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <+sgardner> Steven's going to answer killiondude's question about Greg Kohs.
[13:10] <+sgardner> ooh, he is answering.
[13:10] <Nihiltres> killiondude: his question isn't intrinsically bad, but it's not helpful
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:10] <killiondude> Are these office hours ever helpful, Nihiltres?

[13:10] * DiegoGrez (ElPadrino@186.20.34.121) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] * apergos (~ariel@wiktionary/ArielGlenn) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * meganrhernandez (~megan@216.38.130.162) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * erwin (~erwin85@wikimedia/erwin) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Nihiltres> killiondude: I like to think so
[13:11] * Dragonfly6-7 (~test@bas1-montreal48-1176173479.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <+sgardner> While Steven is typing, maybe I will say some other stuff also.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.
[13:11] <killiondude> He was told to use IRC.

[13:11] * PeterSymonds (~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Dragonfly6-7> oh, but was kicked off?
[13:12] <@Jamesofur> the IRC discussion was meant for the mailing list as a whole

[13:12] <dferg> what's the topic for today's office hours, please? Thank you.
[13:12] * Abbasjnr (c4c9dafe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.254) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.
[13:12] <killiondude> w/e, i don't care too much. I just find it disappointing. :-)

[13:12] * Theo10011 waves at dgultekin
[13:12] <+sgardner> So. The board met over the weekend, and SJ has published four resolutions from the meeting: one on Movement Roles II, one on trustee term length, one on fundraising principles and one on the five-year-targets. So I am happy to talk about that, or about any other topic associated with the board meeting.
[13:13] <+sgardner> And, I am happy to talk about any other topic as well, and I'm happy to answer the Greg Kohs question if you folks want me to.



StevenW ... it he this guy??
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Milton Roe
post Thu 14th October 2010, 10:20pm
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QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list
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TungstenCarbide
post Thu 14th October 2010, 10:24pm
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:20pm) *

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list

The VanTucky link on that page goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Steven_Walling, a WMF employee.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide: Thu 14th October 2010, 10:25pm
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Milton Roe
post Thu 14th October 2010, 11:31pm
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QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:24pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:20pm) *

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list

The VanTucky link on that page goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Steven_Walling, a WMF employee.

Doh! If you click on "StevenW" it goes to the same page. He's listed under two names on the IRC list. Silly me for assuming that two different listings and IRC names meant two separate users.
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EricBarbour
post Fri 15th October 2010, 1:18am
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Ooh, Steven Walling! The humorless dork pops up again!

Let me tell you about Steve!

(How does Jimbo's asscrack taste, Steve?)

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Fri 15th October 2010, 1:19am
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Jon Awbrey
post Fri 15th October 2010, 2:54am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:45pm) *

This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from “Office Hours”:

QUOTE

[13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.
[13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.




So what StewieW is saying is that the WikiMedia Foundation does not answer to The Public, but solely to “Good Faith” members of the cult.

I'm glad we finally cleared that up, but isn't that what we've been saying all along?

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thekohser
post Fri 15th October 2010, 3:10am
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I missed this closing word from Spider Hands:

QUOTE
[14:09] <+sgardner> Anyway: upshot -- likely at some point in the future we will develop an RFP policy, but it's not imminent. And I think it's fine for us, at this point, to experiment a little -- sometimes running RFPs when we think circumstances warrant it, and sometimes not running them when we think it's not warranted. That way we can learn how much work it is, whether it leads to useful outcomes, and so forth. In general, our goal is to get the best possible outcomes, and if RFPs don't help us do that, I would be less inclined to use them as a tool.


Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes?

What am I missing here?
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Jon Awbrey
post Fri 15th October 2010, 3:28am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 11:10pm) *

What am I missing here?


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post Fri 15th October 2010, 3:32am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:10pm) *
Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes?

Well, that depends on how you define "best," "possible," and "outcomes." Presumably in the WMF's case, "best" means "most likely to divert Foundation money to friends of Foundation employees." Meanwhile, "possible" means "whatever we can get away with." And, of course, "outcomes" means "the money's coming out, grab with both hands and bring your wheelbarrow!" smile.gif
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