The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

> General Discussion? What's that all about?

This subforum is for general discussion of Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects. For a glossary of terms frequently used in such discussions, please refer to Wikipedia:Glossary. For a glossary of musical terms, see here. Other useful links:

Akahele.orgWikipedia-WatchWikitruthWP:ANWikiEN-L/Foundation-L (mailing lists) • Citizendium forums

19 Pages V « < 4 5 6 7 8 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> How to utterly destroy Wikipedia, Idea needed
Rating  3
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 1:54pm
Post #101


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 1:51pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:22pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 1:54pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 12:39pm) *

QUOTE(JohnA @ Sun 28th June 2009, 12:47pm) *

Wikipedia, the anarchist's answer to the question "How can we fuck up world history?"


I think that's a very good definition of Wikipedia.

When you say something like that, are you sitting at home with a straight face? To assert that Wikipedia, of all things, has fucked up world history is frankly ignorant to the point of being insulting. Nazism and the holocaust, maybe. Persecution of African Americans, maybe. Wikipedia? No chance. Get some perspective.


I really think he is serious you know. blink.gif


What are you both talking about?

I am not sure of your misunderstanding - would it help to say that 'history' has two senses (1) the events (2) the record of those events. Obviously (2) was intended. Quite obviously - how could (1) have possibly been meant????.

I don't know. I responded based on how I read it, and based on the way you quoted JohnA. Alex saw it the same way, evidently.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 1:59pm
Post #102


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:54pm) *

I don't know. I responded based on how I read it, and based on the way you quoted JohnA. Alex saw it the same way, evidently.


Well (1) obviously couldn't have been meant - how could Wikipedia, which was invented in the 21st century, have fucked up events which happened long before that, such as the Holocaust. Therefore (2) is the only reasonable sense. Wikipedia is seriously screwing up our record of history, and there is no doubt about that. Do you not agree? If you do, why are you reacting with such horror?

Even the Wikipedia article on history manages to get the definition right. "History is the study (teaching) of the past, with special attention to the written record of the activities of human beings over time."

It is this which Wikipedia has fucked up entirely.

It has fucked up both the teaching of the past - because school students now use it as a source to copy and paste into essays. And it has fucked up the written record by distorting and misrepresenting the past in the way that only mobs know how.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 28th June 2009, 2:03pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Sun 28th June 2009, 2:46pm
Post #103


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:59pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:54pm) *

I don't know. I responded based on how I read it, and based on the way you quoted JohnA. Alex saw it the same way, evidently.

It has fucked up both the teaching of the past - because school students now use it as a source to copy and paste into essays. And it has fucked up the written record by distorting and misrepresenting the past in the way that only mobs know how.


And of course, before 2001, school students never, ever copied from other people. And of course, there were no other encyclopedias that made errors. By professionals too.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 2:53pm
Post #104


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:46pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:59pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:54pm) *

I don't know. I responded based on how I read it, and based on the way you quoted JohnA. Alex saw it the same way, evidently.

It has fucked up both the teaching of the past - because school students now use it as a source to copy and paste into essays. And it has fucked up the written record by distorting and misrepresenting the past in the way that only mobs know how.


And of course, before 2001, school students never, ever copied from other people. And of course, there were no other encyclopedias that made errors. By professionals too.


In the old days they tended to copy things in writing so that at least the information went in subliminally.

There were no encyclopedias before Wikipedia that have made such spectacular errors as Wikipedia.

But how would you know, 'Alex'. Where actually do you get your information from?

This all reminds me of an Asimov story about a distant future where everyone uses computers and every mathematical result that the computer gives 'must' be right. One of the characters discovers he can 'prove' that 2 x 3 = 6. The other character is very sceptical. Of course the computer does return 6. But perhaps it might return a different number. The computer by definition is right.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 2:56pm
Post #105


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:53pm) *


This all reminds me of an Asimov story about a distant future where everyone uses computers and every mathematical result that the computer gives 'must' be right. One of the characters discovers he can 'prove' that 2 x 3 = 6. The other character is very sceptical. Of course the computer does return 6. But perhaps it might return a different number. The computer by definition is right.

Um. We seem to have drifted a bit.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:02pm
Post #106


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:56pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:53pm) *


This all reminds me of an Asimov story about a distant future where everyone uses computers and every mathematical result that the computer gives 'must' be right. One of the characters discovers he can 'prove' that 2 x 3 = 6. The other character is very sceptical. Of course the computer does return 6. But perhaps it might return a different number. The computer by definition is right.

Um. We seem to have drifted a bit.


Not at all. Right on topic. You don't really understand why I have a difficulty with Wikipedia, do you?

Oh yes and the threats have now started on my talk page.

QUOTE
Comments at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship

Hello Peter. Because this kind of thing is disruptive both in intent and effect, I would ask you to cease making comments of this nature. If you continue then I will block you to prevent further such edits. You should raise your grievances on one of the discussion pages where they can be debated. CIreland (talk) 14:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to lend weight to what CIrland just said. You belief Wikipedia should be blown up and destroyed is not compatible with Wikipedia's goal of producing a collaborative enyclopedia and as such is disruptive. Please keep your attempts to destroy Wikipedia on Wikipediareview and off of Wikipedia. Chillum 14:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I am a member of this dysfunctinal 'community' and I have the right to vote in these 'elections' and I have the right to give any reason I like. It is actions like these that are causing the true disruption. Peter Damian (talk) 14:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Damian"


QUOTE
Please stop threats of blocking on my talk page
Your comment on my talk page was unnecessarily provocative and disruptive. Threats of blocking do not help this situation. Please stop this. Thanks. Peter Damian (talk) 15:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I have now commented on this on Wikipedia Review. Threats like this are counterproductive as they suggest to the large audience now reading this thread that Wikipedia is trying to suppress good-faith and conscientious dissent by those who are wanting reform. But of course you weren't trying to do that, were you? Peter Damian (talk) 15:04, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CIreland"


This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 28th June 2009, 3:05pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:10pm
Post #107


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:02pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:56pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 2:53pm) *


This all reminds me of an Asimov story about a distant future where everyone uses computers and every mathematical result that the computer gives 'must' be right. One of the characters discovers he can 'prove' that 2 x 3 = 6. The other character is very sceptical. Of course the computer does return 6. But perhaps it might return a different number. The computer by definition is right.

Um. We seem to have drifted a bit.


Not at all. Right on topic. You don't really understand why I have a difficulty with Wikipedia, do you?

Oh yes and the threats have now started on my talk page.

QUOTE
Comments at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship

Hello Peter. Because this kind of thing is disruptive both in intent and effect, I would ask you to cease making comments of this nature. If you continue then I will block you to prevent further such edits. You should raise your grievances on one of the discussion pages where they can be debated. CIreland (talk) 14:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to lend weight to what CIrland just said. You belief Wikipedia should be blown up and destroyed is not compatible with Wikipedia's goal of producing a collaborative enyclopedia and as such is disruptive. Please keep your attempts to destroy Wikipedia on Wikipediareview and off of Wikipedia. Chillum 14:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I am a member of this dysfunctinal 'community' and I have the right to vote in these 'elections' and I have the right to give any reason I like. It is actions like these that are causing the true disruption. Peter Damian (talk) 14:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Peter_Damian"


QUOTE
Please stop threats of blocking on my talk page
Your comment on my talk page was unnecessarily provocative and disruptive. Threats of blocking do not help this situation. Please stop this. Thanks. Peter Damian (talk) 15:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I have now commented on this on Wikipedia Review. Threats like this are counterproductive as they suggest to the large audience now reading this thread that Wikipedia is trying to suppress good-faith and conscientious dissent by those who are wanting reform. But of course you weren't trying to do that, were you? Peter Damian (talk) 15:04, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CIreland"


Why is this at all surprising to you, Damian? You think people are just going to ignore your commentary about "destroying" Wikipedia? People on Wikipedia don't have time for it, and that's perfectly reasonable.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:10pm
Post #108


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:10pm) *

Why is this at all surprising to you, Damian? You think people are just going to ignore your commentary about "destroying" Wikipedia? People on Wikipedia don't have time for it, and that's perfectly reasonable.


On the contrary, given my comments that began this thread, it's not surprising at all. This is because Wikipedia is not a normal community.

In a normal community, even those who want radically to change the community (or even to destroy it) or allowed to vote. If enough votes are cast, that is a reasonable case for radical change of some sort.

Also, any normal community sees that the repression of dissent has more far-reaching consequences than the dissent itself. Good.

[edit] Alex has now joined in the call for my block.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 28th June 2009, 3:15pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:17pm
Post #109


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Did you honestly expect people to just sit back and accept your trolling? Really, "Peter", you're naive if you thought so. People aren't just going to ignore you and let you try and destroy Wikipedia.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:23pm
Post #110


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:17pm) *

Did you honestly expect people to just sit back and accept your trolling? Really, "Peter", you're naive if you thought so. People aren't just going to ignore you and let you try and destroy Wikipedia.


'Trolling' is a word I am too old to understand. I think it means commenting in bad faith. No, I am being quite principled and conscientious in doing this, as most people who know me well will appreciate.

Sometimes I think it means 'comments I don't like', which is probably true in this case, eh Alex?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:27pm
Post #111


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:10pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:10pm) *

Why is this at all surprising to you, Damian? You think people are just going to ignore your commentary about "destroying" Wikipedia? People on Wikipedia don't have time for it, and that's perfectly reasonable.


On the contrary, given my comments that began this thread, it's not surprising at all. This is because Wikipedia is not a normal community.

In a normal community, even those who want radically to change the community (or even to destroy it) or allowed to vote. If enough votes are cast, that is a reasonable case for radical change of some sort.

Also, any normal community sees that the repression of dissent has more far-reaching consequences than the dissent itself. Good.

[edit] Alex has now joined in the call for my block.

They're not trying to repress dissent. Stop trying to paint yourself as a victimised martyr when you're actually the one (attempting to be) on the attack. And we don't need running commentary on which nasty Wikipedian is now calling for your blocking. Surely you considered that minor setback in your battle strategy against all things Wikipedia...? *scoffs quietly to himself*

This post has been edited by aeon: Sun 28th June 2009, 3:35pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:29pm
Post #112


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:23pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:17pm) *

Did you honestly expect people to just sit back and accept your trolling? Really, "Peter", you're naive if you thought so. People aren't just going to ignore you and let you try and destroy Wikipedia.


'Trolling' is a word I am too old to understand. I think it means commenting in bad faith. No, I am being quite principled and conscientious in doing this, as most people who know me well will appreciate.

Sometimes I think it means 'comments I don't like', which is probably true in this case, eh Alex?


I definitely don't like them, much as I wouldn't like the comment "Alex deserves to die". We really do not need somebody destroying Wikipedia from within.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:29pm
Post #113


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:23pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:17pm) *

Did you honestly expect people to just sit back and accept your trolling? Really, "Peter", you're naive if you thought so. People aren't just going to ignore you and let you try and destroy Wikipedia.


'Trolling' is a word I am too old to understand. I think it means commenting in bad faith. No, I am being quite principled and conscientious in doing this, as most people who know me well will appreciate.

Sometimes I think it means 'comments I don't like', which is probably true in this case, eh Alex?

Nah. Wrong. It means to inflame for the sake of inflaming. Which, in spite of your "reasoned" and "rational" protests, is *exactly* what you're doing with this thread.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tarc
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:32pm
Post #114


Fat Cat
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined: Fri 7th Mar 2008, 3:38am
Member No.: 5,309

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 23rd June 2009, 5:28pm) *
but interested in the views of others.


Image

Peter Damian, bravely standing against Wiki-authoritarianism.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:35pm
Post #115


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:27pm) *

They're not try to repress dissent.


This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 28th June 2009, 3:35pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:36pm
Post #116


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Tarc @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:32pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 23rd June 2009, 5:28pm) *
but interested in the views of others.


Image

Peter Damian, bravely standing against Wiki-authoritarianism.


HAHAHA. No one is stopping him from leaving, if he doesn't like how things are done. It is he who is continuing to stay, and the only person causing problems is him. Don't make the man out to be a martyr when he's nothing of the sort.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
aeon
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:36pm
Post #117


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed 23rd Jul 2008, 3:39am
Member No.: 7,214



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 3:35pm) *

QUOTE(aeon @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:27pm) *

They're not try to repress dissent.

!

Taking words out of context ftw.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:38pm
Post #118


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:36pm) *

HAHAHA. No one is stopping him from leaving, if he doesn't like how things are done. It is he who is continuing to stay, and the only person causing problems is him. Don't make the man out to be a martyr when he's nothing of the sort.


And no one is stopping him from voting?

[edit] The third remark seems inconsistent, don't you think?

QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:17pm) *

People aren't just going to ignore you and let you try and destroy Wikipedia.


QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:29pm) *

We really do not need somebody destroying Wikipedia from within.


QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:36pm) *

It is he who is continuing to stay, and the only person causing problems is him.




This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Sun 28th June 2009, 3:42pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Alex
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:40pm
Post #119


Back from the dead
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,017
Joined: Wed 24th Jan 2007, 4:39pm
Member No.: 867

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:38pm) *

QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:36pm) *

HAHAHA. No one is stopping him from leaving, if he doesn't like how things are done. It is he who is continuing to stay, and the only person causing problems is him. Don't make the man out to be a martyr when he's nothing of the sort.


And no one is stopping him from voting?


Since RFA is not just a vote (you don't add comments to votes), this isn't possible.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tarc
post Sun 28th June 2009, 3:41pm
Post #120


Fat Cat
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,124
Joined: Fri 7th Mar 2008, 3:38am
Member No.: 5,309

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Alex @ Sun 28th June 2009, 11:36am) *

QUOTE(Tarc @ Sun 28th June 2009, 4:32pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 23rd June 2009, 5:28pm) *
but interested in the views of others.


Image

Peter Damian, bravely standing against Wiki-authoritarianism.


HAHAHA. No one is stopping him from leaving, if he doesn't like how things are done. It is he who is continuing to stay, and the only person causing problems is him. Don't make the man out to be a martyr when he's nothing of the sort.


I made it ambiguous enough so it could be read as either supportive or sarcastic, so everyone can be happy. smile.gif My personal take isn't terribly important, but seeing how I thought dougstech was a drama-whoring jackass...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

19 Pages V « < 4 5 6 7 8 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th 9 14, 1:45am