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Manipulation of BLPs, now open |
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NuclearWarfare |
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QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Mon 29th August 2011, 5:06pm) It looks like this case really will lead nowhere. Now they have proposed decisions which say basically that editors should all follow Wikipedia policies and if there is a problem, they should use the Wikipedia dispute resolution process. That's quite remarkable -- right back to square one. I take it you read Brad's comments about this, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb..._by_ArbitratorsThis post has been edited by NuclearWarfare:
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Cla68 |
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Here, Newyorkbrad expresses concern about me starting an RfC draft on Will Beback. I'll explain my rationale below: 1. Will Beback, by his statement here still just doesn't get it about BLPs. In beginning research for the RfC, I see that Will has what appears to be a years-long, ongoing approach like this towards BLPs. 2. After a recent content RfC in one of the LaRouche articles returned an almost unanimous response to remove a bunch of pejorative material from the article that Will had been trying to keep in, he keeps trying to find a way to keep it all somehow. So, his war on LaRouche is ongoing. 3. After asking all those confrontational questions in the Cirt RfC about editors' religious beliefs, he has kept at it with other editors. This battleground, win-at-all cost mentality towards imposing the content he wants to impose just isn't compatible with what is supposed to be Wikipedia's collaborative model. 4. His attempts on the talk and workshop pages of this ArbCom case and the Jayen/Cirt case to manipulate the scope and results and spin the decisions to fit his editing agenda show that he has no intention of stopping what he is doing. 5. Of all the Wikipedia admins who were notorious for treating Wikipedia as their personal property back in 2005 and 2006, banning editors at will (WordBomb, for example), and using off-wiki mailing lists to coordinate their actions (such as my RfA and the Cyberstalking/Durova fiasco), Will Beback is the only who doesn't appear to have altered his behavior one iota. Most, if not all, of the others, SlimVirgin, Jayjg, JzG, etc have amended their editing and administrative behavior in response to demands from the community. Will Beback appears to be the lone holdout. 6. Judging by the response here, the community is tired of Will's battleground, wikilawyering, win-at-all cost approach to participating in Wikipedia. He hasn't listened and responded to previous attempts at dispute resolution. Perhaps this RfC will do it. I should have it ready and posted in a month or two. This post has been edited by Cla68:
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Mathsci |
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 2nd September 2011, 11:23pm) Here, Newyorkbrad expresses concern about me starting an RfC draft on Will Beback. I'll explain my rationale below: What was is that prevented you posting this on wikipedia? This post has been edited by Mathsci:
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Cla68 |
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QUOTE(Mathsci @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 12:16am) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 2nd September 2011, 11:23pm) Here, Newyorkbrad expresses concern about me starting an RfC draft on Will Beback. I'll explain my rationale below: What was is that prevented you posting this on wikipedia? Mainly because of what I wrote in point #5. To borrow Christopher Booker's compelling observation, we all of us, see the world in terms of stories/narratives. Wikipedia Review definitely has several recurring narratives with which its regulars view Wikipedia's history, culture, and structure. Point #5 is a narrative I have, shared by some others, shaped by my experiences and observations from five years of participation in Wikipedia. That narrative is influencing how I interpret and act on the situation with Will Beback. Thus, I felt it important to mention as one of the reasons for doing what I'm doing. Wikipedia's administration and community, however, as inferred by The Joy's words above, have never acknowledged this narrative, as expressed in point #5, as being true. Therefore, if I bring it up in Wikipedia I would be violating the letter of the No Personal Attacks policy. Also, Wikipedia participants are supposed to be focusing on building a 'pedia, right? Progression. So, constantly bringing up past editor behavior is considered unhelpful, which is an understandable view. This post has been edited by Cla68:
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Mathsci |
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 5:41am) QUOTE(Mathsci @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 12:16am) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 2nd September 2011, 11:23pm) Here, Newyorkbrad expresses concern about me starting an RfC draft on Will Beback. I'll explain my rationale below: What was is that prevented you posting this on wikipedia? Mainly because of what I wrote in point #5. To borrow Christopher Booker's compelling observation, we all of us, see the world in terms of stories/narratives. Wikipedia Review definitely has several recurring narratives with which its regulars view Wikipedia's history, culture, and structure. Point #5 is a narrative I have, shared by some others, shaped by my experiences and observations from five years of participation in Wikipedia. That narrative is influencing how I interpret and act on the situation with Will Beback. Thus, I felt it important to mention as one of the reasons for doing what I'm doing. Wikipedia's administration and community, however, as inferred by The Joy's words above, have never acknowledged this narrative, as expressed in point #5, as being true. Therefore, if I bring it up in Wikipedia I would be violating the letter of the No Personal Attacks policy. Also, Wikipedia participants are supposed to be focusing on building a 'pedia, right? Progression. So, constantly bringing up past editor behavior is considered unhelpful, which is an understandable view. I don't agree with your logic. Wikipedia has changed, BLP policy has changed and people change. 2006 is a long time back and things were very different then.
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EricBarbour |
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QUOTE(Mathsci @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 12:37am) Wikipedia has changed, BLP policy has changed and people change. 2006 is a long time back and things were very different then. Yes, they were different. Your "Glorious Project" was booming, new users were showing up to write useful articles about all kinds of subjects, and very few Wikipedians spent inordinate amounts of time wargaming, gawking at various slow-motion traffic accidents (AN/I, Arbcom, SlimVirgin, Mantanmoreland etc.) and pretending to "edit" an "encyclopedia". Now the "encyclopedia" is in decline. BLPs are still often used to defame people, but now it's difficult to repair them because the wargamers have taken over. Because no one with expertise, or even a drop of common sense, wants to edit articles. New article creation is declining, new users are declining, blocks of new users are through the roof, and certain biases are hopelessly baked into the database. Meanwhile, the subjects arrogant young males want to talk about -- military history, football, cartoons and comic books, and Doctor Who -- are getting top-notch treatment. (By the way, Mathsci, you incredible bastard, did you know that only 1.7% of English Wikipedia's entire database is about science? And only 0.6% of it is about mathematics? There is far more about professional wrestling on Wikipedia than there is about both science AND math.)
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Beer me |
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 2:04pm) QUOTE(Mathsci @ Sat 3rd September 2011, 12:37am) Wikipedia has changed, BLP policy has changed and people change. 2006 is a long time back and things were very different then. Yes, they were different. Your "Glorious Project" was booming, new users were showing up to write useful articles about all kinds of subjects, and very few Wikipedians spent inordinate amounts of time wargaming, gawking at various slow-motion traffic accidents (AN/I, Arbcom, SlimVirgin, Mantanmoreland etc.) and pretending to "edit" an "encyclopedia". Now the "encyclopedia" is in decline. BLPs are still often used to defame people, but now it's difficult to repair them because the wargamers have taken over. Because no one with expertise, or even a drop of common sense, wants to edit articles. New article creation is declining, new users are declining, blocks of new users are through the roof, and certain biases are hopelessly baked into the database. Meanwhile, the subjects arrogant young males want to talk about -- military history, football, cartoons and comic books, and Doctor Who -- are getting top-notch treatment. (By the way, Mathsci, you incredible bastard, did you know that only 1.7% of English Wikipedia's entire database is about science? And only 0.6% of it is about mathematics? There is far more about professional wrestling on Wikipedia than there is about both science AND math.)Amen, beautifully put Eric.
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Posts in this topic
Herschelkrustofsky Manipulation of BLPs SpiderAndWeb
The aptly named "Manipulation of BLPs" ... -DS- I wish I had started my latest "good hand... It's the blimp, Frank
The aptly named "Manipulation of BLPs" ... No one of consequence
What about SlimVirgin? I think she has been ly... It's the blimp, Frank
It sounds like they are not looking to punish any... Detective
Rather, expect a new set of behavioral guideline... It's the blimp, Frank
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='282... No one of consequence
There is a big debate about this now on this page... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='282... No one of consequence
It sounds like they are not looking to punish an... Herschelkrustofsky
Obviously there is nothing unclear about BLP poli... No one of consequence
Admins represent a privileged caste.
Not to me.... lilburne
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='282... Herschelkrustofsky
A simple rule that the only RS with respect to co... lilburne
A simple rule that the only RS with respect to c... Herschelkrustofsky
If the Daily Post article of June 1 1976 is not ... Abd If the Daily Post article of June 1 1976 is not a ... Herschelkrustofsky Abd, I think you are sort of missing the point her... radek
<snip> For example, opinions about living p... It's the blimp, Frank Will has his undies in a bunch and is agitating fo... It's the blimp, Frank Will is clearly hoping to shape the way the case i... No one of consequence
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wi... EricBarbour
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='282... NuclearWarfare
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='28... The Adversary Wait, who is McWhiney?Look it up on the Hive-Mind ... Herschelkrustofsky
Wait, who is McWhiney?Look it up on the Hive-Mind... The Adversary
[quote name='The Adversary' post='282351' date='T... Milton Roe
[quote name='EricBarbour' post='282345' date='Fri... Jagärdu
So here's the rub: I predict that Arbcom will... Vigilant This is shaping up as a standard arbcom matter wit... Jagärdu
Cirt has gone to ground and hasn't edited si... Vigilant
So what you're saying is that Cirt is Cbrick7... Jagärdu
[quote name='Jagärdu' post='282415' date='Fri ... Jagärdu
This is shaping up as a standard arbcom matter wi... It's the blimp, Frank
This is shaping up as a standard arbcom matter wi... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='282... RMHED
I don't think Will Beback is capable of pulli... Cla68
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wi... Herschelkrustofsky Ach, so. But it was EricBarbour's pun, not min... Milton Roe
Ach, so. But it was EricBarbour's pun, not mi... No one of consequence
Ach, so. But it was EricBarbour's pun, not m... A Horse With No Name
OT, but WTF is that?
It's my brother-in-law... Jagärdu
[quote name='Milton Roe' post='282376' date='Fri ... Milton Roe
[quote name='Milton Roe' post='282376' date='Fri... It's the blimp, Frank I think what Jehochman says here is actually corre... Jagärdu
I think what Jehochman says here is actually corr... Daniel Brandt Multiple choice question: Why is Arbcom unable to ... It's the blimp, Frank Can someone tell me what is meant by "SEO-lik... Jagärdu
Can someone tell me what is meant by "SEO-li... EricBarbour [quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='2825... No one of consequence
Well? Anyone want to disagree?
It doesn't ap... Jagärdu
Well? Anyone want to disagree?
It doesn't a... EricBarbour It doesn't appear to have anything to do with ... It's the blimp, Frank Do you think that Willie and Hochman have actual l... No one of consequence
Do you think that Willie and Hochman have actual ... Jagärdu
It seems that there was a lot of interest in a BL... It's the blimp, Frank
Whoever else wanted to have a case on BLPs in gen... No one of consequence
Whoever else wanted to have a case on BLPs in ge... lilburne
On the other hand, if someone else wants to step ... EricBarbour It is a pointless waste of time. The system is bro... RMHED
It is a pointless waste of time. The system is br... Abd It is a pointless waste of time. The system is bro... It's the blimp, Frank http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7551/126854stri... Herschelkrustofsky [font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=5][i]Chutzpah i... Rhindle
But I have plenty of time to talk about it from ... It's the blimp, Frank There's a real catfight going on. Does that me... NuclearWarfare
There's a real catfight going on. Does that m... It's the blimp, Frank Cla68 has tantalizing placeholders. It's the blimp, Frank I hope this isn't too far off topic -- I someh... Cla68
I hope this isn't too far off topic -- I some... It's the blimp, Frank The complaints about the skimpy evidence seem to b... lilburne
The evidence given by Collect shows that there is... It's the blimp, Frank Actually, I missed one -- he goes after Will Bebac... It's the blimp, Frank Here's a good side show. What strikes me about... It's the blimp, Frank Jehochman complains about the Wikipedia Review:
... Detective
Jehochman complains about the Wikipedia Review:
... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='It's the blimp, Frank' post='283... EricBarbour Here's the page you have been waiting for: [wp... Herschelkrustofsky ResidentAnthropologist has provided a helpful surv... It's the blimp, Frank Awesome. It's the blimp, Frank
I take it you read Brad's comments about this... Herschelkrustofsky
Here, Newyorkbrad expresses concern about me star... EricBarbour
[quote name='Cla68' post='283986' date='Fri 2nd S... The Joy
[quote name='Cla68' post='283986' date='Fri 2nd S... Herschelkrustofsky
The Wikipedia Community want their Barabbas (Will... lilburne
[b](By the way, Mathsci, you incredible bastard,... It's the blimp, Frank
What do you mean, if? The decision does nothing ... Herschelkrustofsky This discussion provides a sterling example of the...
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