The circus hits town, arbcom 2009 here we go Options

[Cla68]

So far almost 300 accounts have voted in slightly over 24 hours since voting opened. I hope this is a sign that voter turn-out will be higher than in years past. If so, perhaps secret balloting might have something to do with it?

[Kelly Martin]

So far almost 300 accounts have voted in slightly over 24 hours since voting opened. I hope this is a sign that voter turn-out will be higher than in years past. If so, perhaps secret balloting might have something to do with it?

Quite probably. Voting is easier with the voting engine than it was with the voting pages (fill out one voting form instead of making edits on dozens of different pages); lowering the effort required to vote almost always increases turnout. (See, I was paying attention when I took election theory back in college.)

[Cla68]

So far almost 300 accounts have voted in slightly over 24 hours since voting opened. I hope this is a sign that voter turn-out will be higher than in years past. If so, perhaps secret balloting might have something to do with it?

Quite probably. Voting is easier with the voting engine than it was with the voting pages (fill out one voting form instead of making edits on dozens of different pages); lowering the effort required to vote almost always increases turnout. (See, I was paying attention when I took election theory back in college.)

I think I described in a thread somewhere here once about my experience as a polling station volunteer during the US 2000 elections. I remember that a lot of people tried to vote early in the morning on their way to work. Many of them, however, gave up because the lines were so long, in part because the polling station workers (including me) were so disorganized because of our inexperience in running a presidential election polling station. I wonder how many of those people came back after work when things were running more smoothly to get their votes in. I remember thinking, "There's got to be a better way to do this."

[Kurt M. Weber]

Secret balloting is an un-wiki travesty.

[Sarcasticidealist]

Secret balloting is an un-wiki travesty.

Well, yes, but so is not allowing people to edit each other's votes.

[Doc glasgow]

Secret balloting is an un-wiki travesty.

Well, yes, but so is not allowing people to edit each other's votes.

Indeed, actually, voting is an unwiki-like travesty. In pure wiki, there would be not arbcom and indeed no admins.

Wikiality.com tried that for a while. No one was to get banned, there was no such thing as "vandalism" (since they actually disliked too much "truthiness") - but someone (cough), logged in and moved all their pages to "Elephant" to make some POINT. I notice their mainpage is now carefully locked.

[wjhonson]

Yeah, the representation is tricky, but support-only might be a promising way to cope with it.

How would you deal with the problem Sarcasticidealist noted elsewhere--that is, obtaining consensus for the creation of such a body. One of the reasons we placed the advisory council under ArbCom is that it was thought we would not need consensus to create it--ArbCom is free to keep its own house. Besides, none of us intended the council to be the ultimate governing body, just a sort of constitutional convention.

An independent structure, however, would seem to need a mandate from somebody in order to have any sort of authority. Or would it also be formally powerless--charged only with drafting policy for later ratification by the community?

I'm not sure I understand why you think it would be a non-starter to develop consensus in the community, with the community on this new body. And as Everyking pointed out, what Arbcom should have done (or should do) is write up what they think the body should *do* not who should be on it. Then the community gets to massage it and massage it and massage it how they will (freely editing and debating) until some kind of consensus develops on what the body should do and why and how and who. And only then, after the documentary basis is complete, would there be elections to actually populate the body.... with bodies.

This post has been edited by wjhonson: Wed 2nd December 2009, 10:30am

[Doc glasgow]

Well, I voted (almost) solely on the issue of BLP responsibility, and my conclusions were:

Support: SirFozzie; Cla68; Shell Kinney; Fred Bauder; Fritzpoll; Steve Smith; Coren; Mailer diablo (surprised by this one); KnightLago; Kirill Lokshin

Abstain: MBK004; Xavexgoem; Secret;

Oppose: Wehwalt; Seddon; RMHED; AGK; William M. Connolley; Hersfold; Kmweber; Jehochman; Unomi; Ruslik0

[Kelly Martin]

Well, I voted (almost) solely on the issue of BLP responsibility, and my conclusions were:

Support: SirFozzie; Cla68; Shell Kinney; Fred Bauder; Fritzpoll; Steve Smith; Coren; Mailer diablo (surprised by this one); KnightLago; Kirill Lokshin

Coren? Coren has no responsibility except to maintaining his own ego. I'm very surprised at you for that one.

[GlassBeadGame]

Well, I voted (almost) solely on the issue of BLP responsibility, and my conclusions were:

Support: SirFozzie; Cla68; Shell Kinney; Fred Bauder; Fritzpoll; Steve Smith; Coren; Mailer diablo (surprised by this one); KnightLago; Kirill Lokshin

Coren? Coren has no responsibility except to maintaining his own ego. I'm very surprised at you for that one.

Probably a good time to revisit Coren discussion in this thread in which he was at a complete loss to understand why anyone might consider his involvement in the porn industry as a consideration relating to the decision about voting for him or not for ArbCom.

[Trick cyclist]

he was at a complete loss to understand why anyone might consider his involvement in the porn industry as a consideration relating to the decision about voting for him or not for ArbCom.

Id have said that this in itself might be a reason not to vote for him.

[wjhonson]

Well, I voted (almost) solely on the issue of BLP responsibility, and my conclusions were:

Support: SirFozzie; Cla68; Shell Kinney; Fred Bauder; Fritzpoll; Steve Smith; Coren; Mailer diablo (surprised by this one); KnightLago; Kirill Lokshin

Coren? Coren has no responsibility except to maintaining his own ego. I'm very surprised at you for that one.

Probably a good time to revisit Coren discussion in this thread in which he was at a complete loss to understand why anyone might consider his involvement in the porn industry as a consideration relating to the decision about voting for him or not for ArbCom.

I don't understand why he doesn't understand why making it clear that he is/was involved in the porn industry would actually garner him more votes.

By the way, if you have an account which does not meet the requirements to vote for ArbCom, you get the message : "Sorry, your account on the English Wikipedia does not meet the voting requirements of 2009 Audit Subcommittee election. "

Of course there's not obvious place where you can point that out to anyone listening. Just as there is no obvious indication that elections are even going on. Typical Wikipedia style I suppose. The more hidden you make things the more the upper layers can control them. We don't actually want ... you know... democracy or even the hint of it, when we can continue to support oligarchy (read "avid game players get credit for persistence click here").

[Newyorkbrad]

Just as there is no obvious indication that elections are even going on. Typical Wikipedia style I suppose.

That's odd. I get a sitenotice that links to the voting page every time I sign on.

[Eva Destruction]

Just as there is no obvious indication that elections are even going on. Typical Wikipedia style I suppose.

That's odd. I get a sitenotice that links to the voting page every time I sign on.

I don't; I get a piece of nonsense that looks like it was designed by an eight year old that reads "Wikipedia is there when you need it — now it needs you" in giant bug-zapper blue letters. The only "official" notice I've seen anywhere is a tiny note buried in a boxfull of options on the watchlist page. And I helped set up a fair amount of this crap; I know where I ought to be looking to see these things.

[Newyorkbrad]

Just as there is no obvious indication that elections are even going on. Typical Wikipedia style I suppose.

That's odd. I get a sitenotice that links to the voting page every time I sign on.

I don't; I get a piece of nonsense that looks like it was designed by an eight year old that reads "Wikipedia is there when you need it — now it needs you" in giant bug-zapper blue letters. The only "official" notice I've seen anywhere is a tiny note buried in a boxfull of options on the watchlist page. And I helped set up a fair amount of this crap; I know where I ought to be looking to see these things.

You are right; the notice I was thinking of is at the top of one's watchlist, not on signing in. (I usually go to my watchlist first thing after signing on unless I have new messages, but I know others do it differently.)

[wjhonson]

Just as there is no obvious indication that elections are even going on. Typical Wikipedia style I suppose.

That's odd. I get a sitenotice that links to the voting page every time I sign on.

I don't; I get a piece of nonsense that looks like it was designed by an eight year old that reads "Wikipedia is there when you need it — now it needs you" in giant bug-zapper blue letters. The only "official" notice I've seen anywhere is a tiny note buried in a boxfull of options on the watchlist page. And I helped set up a fair amount of this crap; I know where I ought to be looking to see these things.

You are right; the notice I was thinking of is at the top of one's watchlist, not on signing in. (I usually go to my watchlist first thing after signing on unless I have new messages, but I know others do it differently.)

Please take the person who thought everyone checks their watchlist out back, and shoot them.

After a certain ArbCom fiasco that made me literally sick to my stomach, I stopped checking my watchlist. I make my amazingly perfect edits and never look back. Looking back only adds to my tension by seeing boobs and thugs reverting my changes. I mean "boobs" in the pejorative sense, not the titillating sense. And I use "thug" in the illiterate street-gang sense, not the sexy masculine bad-boy sense.

When ArbCom members make a commitment to throwing lightning bolts at any person, no matter how high up in the structure, who has even the smell (let alone the laid-out evidence) of a lack of moral integrity, then my better-faith in the final outcome will be restored. As it is, the particular persons involved are still in-project, still creating havoc, still not reprimanded, and still collecting titles and still creating waves of drama in her wake (oops did I say her).

And the bizarre protection afforded has spawned ten times the amount of off-wiki drama then simply desysopping the person would have done. That is a broken system. ArbCom should re open the case and do what's right, not what's easy.

But I digress. I am evidently in one of my full-of-bitterness-at-what-could-have-been days.

Anyway, voting for ArbCom should be a notice that is sent into everyone's box, not just a banner slapped up in a place that not everyone even visits.

[A Horse With No Name]

Looking back only adds to my tension by seeing boobs and thugs reverting my changes. I mean "boobs" in the pejorative sense, not the titillating sense.

And tonight on Wikipedia TV, Kat Walsh stars in "Opportunity Knockers."

[wjhonson]

I'm beginning to write a few words about the candidates, but does anyone have a good idea why Jehochman should have so many more edits to policy pages than the nearest other candidate? I haven't looked into them to see exactly what they are yet, but I may if I find time.

When does the election window close?

My picks for ArbCom (just starting to write it, not finished)

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm beginning to write a few words about the candidates, but does anyone have a good idea why Jehochman should have so many more edits to policy pages than the nearest other candidate?

Because he is a jerk. Don't waste your time on him. Take it from the horse's mouth: Cla68, Kurt and RHMED need to be on Arbcom. Trust me, you'll thank me in the morning!

[wjhonson]

I'm beginning to write a few words about the candidates, but does anyone have a good idea why Jehochman should have so many more edits to policy pages than the nearest other candidate?

Because he is a jerk. Don't waste your time on him. Take it from the horse's mouth: Cla68, Kurt and RHMED need to be on Arbcom. Trust me, you'll thank me in the morning!

I've already given the thumbs up to Cla68.
Something in particular he/she/it/goat did got my vote as soon as I saw it.

As far as Jechochman... I laid into he/she/it/goat... just a bit.