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> Jimbo causes Blofeld to quit
Somey
post Sat 5th February 2011, 7:42am
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 3rd February 2011, 12:42pm) *
I know someone (working for a large US corporation) whose job largely consists of, whenever there is a problem to be fixed, finding out who is responsible for getting it fixed, finding out who can actually fix it, and making sure that they don't talk to one another, so that the problem will actually get fixed in a timely manner.

Interesting - does the person in question act as a mediator, or actually as a form of interference? I mean, if a person like that simply reduced the number of meetings and memos by half, or even less than half, that could justify a full-time salary right there, for some companies. Maybe lots of companies.

That's the thing about Wikipedia too, of course - they're hierarchical and bureaucratic when they should be flexible, and chaotic/disorganized when they should have clear lines of authority. That's because people are drawn to whatever is the most fun when tangible incentives and disincentives are taken away, and anything that involves dealing with real people in the real world is unusually no fun at all.
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Somey
post Sat 5th February 2011, 7:58am
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QUOTE(gomi @ Wed 2nd February 2011, 1:24pm) *
QUOTE
''Me'' pay attention to the facts of reality? That's coming from you who makes claims in the public every week about our "efforts to improve quality" and your naive claims that you aim to dramatically increase the number of female editors. You expect things to happen which are beyond your control and you expect people to go out of their way to get things done for you. Maybe if you actually offered decent incentives to editors to get much needed work done for you you'd attract better contributors and more female editors instead of expecting everybody to pussy foot around you while you reap all the rewards. As a leader I'd expect you to respect people's viewpoints instead of dismissing them like you have done here. As a leader you are often very narrow minded and often shockingly ignorant of people's viewpoints to develop the project. I've often had good ideas which I think will dramatically improve the project and proposed them to you in the uttermost good faith as I want to see the project grow and you and Sue have been about as helpful as goldfish.♦ [Dr. Blofeld] 14:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have much of an opinion yet on the underlying topic, but Jimbo is certainly thin-skinned about criticism. That said, the "listen to me, listen to me!" nature of the comment is a little shrill.

Well, absolutely, and at the risk of boring people with my usual pat diagnosis, it's standard-issue online narcissism. Blofeld is a classic case - he's always been like this, but at least in this particular instance he seems to have a fairly clear view of what's going on now, even though he naturally tends to define the problems in self-referential terms.

I should say, though, that while it probably depends on the nature of the "incentives," I doubt that any sort of meaningful incentive program would increase the percentage of female WP users. What's more, it's pretty clear that the WMF leadership understands that, and that their recent talk has been almost solely for the purpose of sounding like they care, because that's what Big Donors want to hear. (The Big Donors don't really care either, of course, other than for the PR value.)

As for Blofeld, you never know - maybe this time he'll stay away for more than a couple of days. If he could just get to a full week, preferably two or three weeks, he might have a real shot. The real psychological withdrawal doesn't start for at least a week or two.
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Milton Roe
post Sat 5th February 2011, 8:13am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th February 2011, 12:58am) *

As for Blofeld, you never know - maybe this time he'll stay away for more than a couple of days. If he could just get to a full week, preferably two or three weeks, he might have a real shot. The real psychological withdrawal doesn't start for at least a week or two.

But the cravings!! Each one lasts an average of 8 minutes. blink.gif hrmph.gif wacko.gif And just when you have the last one licked, along comes another. fear.gif
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Somey
post Sat 5th February 2011, 8:23am
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 5th February 2011, 2:13am) *
But the cravings!! Each one lasts an average of 8 minutes. blink.gif hrmph.gif wacko.gif And just when you have the last one licked, along comes another. fear.gif

There's that, which I would put down to an addictive/obsessive personality type of some kind... and there's also misery-loves-company, where other WP'ers try to get you to come back, so that you feel like Al Pacino in that "'dey pull me back in" speech from Godfather III. And then there's just simple boredom and loneliness, not knowing where else to go.

I guess what I'm saying is that the person in question has to really want to quit, and (depending on the degree of addiction) needs some sort of plan. It's pretty clear that Blofeld doesn't really want to quit, and has no plan. Even though at this point, it seems like for him, Wikipedia could be a significant factor in a closed-loop of repressed self-loathing, which isn't healthy at all - even (or maybe especially) for a narcissist.
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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 8:06pm
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What I think you are missing here Somey is that I actually choose to edit wikipedia because I want to see it improved and move towards certain topics which I think we should cover and get away from focusing on US culture. If I need to stop editing or want to, I really have no problems with stopping. At the end of the day it is just a website so talking about me having this incurable disease is absurd. Yes , I agree that I've spent way too much time editing wikipedia but I have many days when I am very enthusiastic and probably overedit and others, especially recently where don't really care about wikipedia and I've dedicated more time to learning jazz, spanish and working out. In fact I'm sure if you did an "analysis" of my editing history you'd find my edit count and number of article creations way down on what it was in 2007-2008.

I really don't think it is important what Jimbo thinks. What infuriated me was the way he has never shown support yet was quick to pass me off as a "troll". Sort of a kick in the teeth really. Most of the time I try to focus on what editing the site gains for me as a resource, not what Jimbo is getting paid...





As for

"Wikipedia could be a significant factor in a closed-loop of repressed self-loathing, which isn't healthy at all - even (or maybe especially) for a narcissist."

Somey. You really have a strange perception..... Sure I like people to approve of things I do and to make myself feel that I'm doing something worthwhile. If I was really a "self-loathing narcissist" I think wikipedia would be the last website I'd turn to...
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 8th February 2011, 8:35pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 3:06pm) *

...I've dedicated more time to learning jazz...


Oh yeah? But can you do this? -



QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 3:06pm) *
...spanish...


Or this? -



QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 3:06pm) *
...and working out.


If we give you ten dollars, will you punch Lar in the nose? evilgrin.gif

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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 9:07pm
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Jazz and flamenco is my passion. Try Larry Carlton, Joe Pass, Barney Kessel, Tocuardo Mariano, Bireli Lagrene, Neil Schon, Santana, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, oldies like Duke Ellington, Fats Waller, Dave Brubeck etc and flamenco/classical like Paco de Lucia, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, John Williams, Paco de Pena, Andres Segovia and the gorgeous Ana Vidovic. All of them are the true musicians unlike most of today's "artists". Naturally I'm heavily into blues and rock too. I'm a guitarist but I'm learning jazz piano.

This post has been edited by Dr. Blofeld: Tue 8th February 2011, 9:16pm
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 8th February 2011, 9:17pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 4:07pm) *

Jazz and flamenco is my passion. Try Larry Carlton, Joe Pass, Barney Kessel, Tocuardo Mariano, Bireli Lagrene, Neil Schon, Santana, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, oldies like Duke Ellington, Fats Waller, Dave Brubeck etc and flamenco/classical like Paco de Lucia, John McLaughlin, Al Di Meola, John Williams, Paco de Pena, Andres Segovia and the gorgeous Ana Vidovic. All of them are the true musicians unlike most of today's "artists". Naturally I'm heavily into blues and rock too. I'm a guitarist but I'm learning jazz piano.


Well, let's see some music videos of your magic fingers in action -- there are a lot of jazz fans here, and I am sure we would all to get a glimpse of your work! smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 9:34pm
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Out of curiosity who is the most hated wikipedia administrator amongst you lot? Who are the ones people really detest on here?
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 8th February 2011, 9:39pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 4:34pm) *

Out of curiosity who is the most hated wikipedia administrator amongst you lot? Who are the ones people really detest on here?


For myself, I don't hate anyone on WP. Hatred is a waste of time and emotion. ermm.gif
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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 9:52pm
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OK then, who are the administrators who most agree have most lost the plot in terms of what wikipedia is really about? Because a lot of the "pretend policemen" I've encountered don't seem to have actually edited an encyclopedia article in five years...

This post has been edited by Dr. Blofeld: Tue 8th February 2011, 9:53pm
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gomi
post Tue 8th February 2011, 10:13pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 1:34pm) *
Out of curiosity who is the most hated wikipedia administrator amongst you lot? Who are the ones people really detest on here?

Check out Wikipedia WP:DICK of Distinction awards pageant, and the history of that award, and you'll get a statistically valid answer, within the margin of error for Internet forums.

Other than Jimbo himself, SlimVirgin, Cyde, JzG, Jayjg, FT2, and especially David Gerard seem to have attracted the most negative scrutiny here, varying over the years. Ryulong, Elonka, Will Beback, and Rual654 are also (or once were) frequently mentioned. In other words, about who you'd expect.

As an aside, you won't get very far with the "you lot" business. Membership here is pretty diverse, ranging from multiple sitting WP Arbcom members, admins, and checkusers to banned and ardent despisers of Wikipedia and everything it stands for -- and everything in between. Not much unanimity of opinion, except perhaps that Jimbo is a dick.
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EricBarbour
post Tue 8th February 2011, 10:16pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 1:52pm) *
OK then, who are the administrators who most agree have most lost the plot in terms of what wikipedia is really about?

You, but then you're not an admin.

Look thru these subfora. Eeny, meeney, miney, moe.
Or have a look at past winners of the DICK Award.

Short answer: the more powerful they are, the less plot they have.

I'm curious....did you ever finish university, or are you one of those "professional student" types, who can afford to spend 16 hours a day logged into Wikipedia because you have no intention of graduating? And just how much do you enjoy being exploited by Jimbo and Sue?

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Tue 8th February 2011, 10:19pm
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Kelly Martin
post Tue 8th February 2011, 10:21pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 3:52pm) *
OK then, who are the administrators who most agree have most lost the plot in terms of what wikipedia is really about? Because a lot of the "pretend policemen" I've encountered don't seem to have actually edited an encyclopedia article in five years...
All of them.
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Somey
post Tue 8th February 2011, 10:44pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 2:06pm) *
What I think you are missing here Somey is that I actually choose to edit wikipedia because I want to see it improved and move towards certain topics which I think we should cover and get away from focusing on US culture.

Surely you'll forgive us for thinking there's a reason for your astonishingly extensive editing (and stub-creation) activity that goes beyond mere "wanting to improve..."?

QUOTE
What infuriated me was the way he has never shown support yet was quick to pass me off as a "troll". Sort of a kick in the teeth really.

But do you know why he did that? I believe I do, and if so, it has very little to do with the quality of your WP contributions, perceived or otherwise.

QUOTE
Somey. You really have a strange perception..... Sure I like people to approve of things I do and to make myself feel that I'm doing something worthwhile. If I was really a "self-loathing narcissist" I think wikipedia would be the last website I'd turn to...

IMO there's really no such thing as a "self-loathing narcissist." Once you turn to self-loathing, you cease to be a narcissist - sure, there are people who would argue that nearly any combination of psychological characteristics are possible within such a broad classification, but I'm not one of them.

Bearing that in mind, my point was that if you're a narcissist, with all that entails (craving praise and attention; ascribing powers and knowledge to oneself that are at least partially imaginary; inability to handle criticism; inaccurately invoking authority/history as being "on your side," etc.), you can eventually get to be so beaten down by things like social rejection and harsh peer criticism that you just snap - your ego-facade crumbles, you might even have a kind of nervous breakdown, and you can become very depressed as a result. True, it's less likely to happen as a result of Wikipedian interaction than as a result of problems at a real-life job or among one's immediate family, because the personal stakes are so much lower. But it does occasionally happen - we've seen it happen.

This is why I'm rooting for you to get out (of WP) and stay out. This website we're on here, WR, is actually a healthier place for you than Wikipedia is, even with all the people who think you're a general-purpose menace. (Admittedly though, that's not saying much!) smile.gif
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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 11:01pm
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OK, thanks for your replies Somey. Now Mr. Fuchs (sorry for being an A-hole to you on wikipedia, the system tends to do that sort of thing to people) any ideas about websites which pay editors to write for them and actually reward them for their efforts? I've done a fair bit of paid work myself for music related forums but nothing much beyond that of late. Most of the others have been shitty we'll pay you 2 cents for 100 page views type schemes and only eligible for US citizens...
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A Horse With No Name
post Tue 8th February 2011, 11:20pm
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QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 6:01pm) *

OK, thanks for your replies Somey. Now Mr. Fuchs (sorry for being an A-hole to you on wikipedia, the system tends to do that sort of thing to people) any ideas about websites which pay editors to write for them and actually reward them for their efforts? I've done a fair bit of paid work myself for music related forums but nothing much beyond that of late. Most of the others have been shitty we'll pay you 2 cents for 100 page views type schemes and only eligible for US citizens...


I am not Mr. Fuchs, but I might be able to help you in regard to getting writing gigs. It all depends on the subject you are interested in covering and your talent/background as a writer. You can send me a private message if you want to have a serious talk about that.
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Malleus
post Tue 8th February 2011, 11:39pm
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 8th February 2011, 8:35pm) *

QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 3:06pm) *
...spanish...


Or this? -


I enjoyed that. A little hesitant in places, but if I could play even a tiny fraction as well as that I'd be well pleased.
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Malleus
post Tue 8th February 2011, 11:43pm
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 8th February 2011, 9:39pm) *

QUOTE(Dr. Blofeld @ Tue 8th February 2011, 4:34pm) *

Out of curiosity who is the most hated wikipedia administrator amongst you lot? Who are the ones people really detest on here?


For myself, I don't hate anyone on WP. Hatred is a waste of time and emotion. ermm.gif

Surely Pastor Theo has got to be one of the worst ever? rolleyes.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

The serious answer of course is that most of them are dicks (not all, but most), so it would be unfair to focus on one.
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Dr. Blofeld
post Tue 8th February 2011, 11:46pm
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LOL. Pastor Theo.

This post has been edited by Dr. Blofeld: Wed 9th February 2011, 12:25am
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