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> "aggressive trolling not welcome here"
mbz1
post Thu 1st December 2011, 3:45am
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Aggressive trolling not welcome here

I believe this should have it's own thread.
I see neither trolling nor aggression in the removed post.
The speed of the removal of this post indicates that Jimbo was not comfortable with it, but why?
The post was made not by IP, not by a sock.
It was made by profilic content contributor , the kind of contributors whose work make readers to donate to wikipedia.
It contained a valid questions of a person who clearly looking for ways to improve wikipedia, not to attack it.
Doesn't Jjmbo understand that removing posts with such edit summaries could evoke only bigger interest to these posts?

This post has been edited by mbz1: Thu 1st December 2011, 4:36am
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It's the blimp, Frank
post Thu 1st December 2011, 4:48am
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I believe I saw this mentioned in another thread earlier today.
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mbz1
post Thu 1st December 2011, 5:09am
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QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Thu 1st December 2011, 4:48am) *

I believe I saw this mentioned in another thread earlier today.

I believe only Jimbo response on Cla68 talk was mentioned in other thread but not the post that prompted the response.
Besides now the discussion is going on in a few places, for example here
QUOTE
1 It's great to see someone who reads Wikipedia Review and has the courage to admit it on-wiki! I invite you to get an account there, if you haven't already, and give your opinions on things. One thing, though, is that WR participants have much less tolerance for logical fallacies and the other disingenuous debate tactics which appear to be allowed to pass so often here in Wikipedia. Cheers! [[User:Cla68|Cla68]] ([[User talk:Cla68|talk]]) 23:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


This post has been edited by mbz1: Thu 1st December 2011, 5:10am
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The Joy
post Thu 1st December 2011, 6:42am
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I know it's become a cliche here, but Jimbo does come across to me as like a cult leader. He speaks so fondly of Wikipedia is if it's such a magical and perfect thing, then he turns ugly when anyone argues otherwise. He has a very dismissive attitude to anyone with a contrary opinion to his own. The unblocking of Brexx mentioned in the other thread shows he lives in a completely different world outside of reality.

Jimbo: "But Brexx asked nicely! He sounded like a nice guy. We should be nice to him and forgive him because we live in a world of rainbows, babies, and puppies."

Everyone else: blink.gif

I just don't understand what goes on in his mind. I would like to think like Kelly Martin that this is all part of his snake-oil salesman persona just trying to get a few more bucks, but sometimes I wonder if he really does believe in his over-the-top optimism of Wikipedia. Even the most ardent supporters of Wikipedia admit there are problems, but Jimbo hardly ever does. He's going to be like Gadhaffi was to the bitter end. "But the people love me! My regime is perfect! Libya is perfect!"

Despite his Care Bear-esque happy demeanor, I think Jimbo views most Wikipedians (even Cla68 and other FA writers) as expendable cogs. If people leave, others will replace them. Wikipedia will go on as it always has. Sure, 13-year old editors will re-title the Guadalcanal Campaign article to Guacamole Champagne, but the important thing is that Wikipedia will eventually sort it all out because Wikipedia is great. Even if all the FA and Ga article writers, arbitrators, and administrators leave, Jimbo will still say that Wikipedia is great as there will always be people willing to edit it.
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TungstenCarbide
post Thu 1st December 2011, 7:02am
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 3:45am) *

Aggressive trolling not welcome here

Researches find poop-throwing by chimps is a sign of intelligence

QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 3:45am) *

I see neither trolling nor aggression in the removed post.

you are right, but the link was just too good to pass up.
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Alison
post Thu 1st December 2011, 8:20am
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QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Wed 30th November 2011, 11:02pm) *

QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 3:45am) *

Aggressive trolling not welcome here

Researches find poop-throwing by chimps is a sign of intelligence

"Image credit: Thomas Lersch, via Wikipedia"

LOL irony laugh.gif rolleyes.gif ermm.gif
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Emperor
post Thu 1st December 2011, 2:19pm
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Thu 1st December 2011, 1:42am) *

I just don't understand what goes on in his mind.


Didn't someone work out a Jimbo thought algorithm a few months ago? I forget where that went.
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Herschelkrustofsky
post Thu 1st December 2011, 3:49pm
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Wed 30th November 2011, 9:09pm) *

QUOTE(It's the blimp, Frank @ Thu 1st December 2011, 4:48am) *

I believe I saw this mentioned in another thread earlier today.

I believe only Jimbo response on Cla68 talk was mentioned in other thread but not the post that prompted the response.
My, that's a sharp exchange. The original reference to Cla68's message to Jimbo, here at the Review, was at the Jimbo unbans Brexx thread.
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cookiehead
post Thu 1st December 2011, 7:57pm
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How much does Wales earn per year? Is his income solely from WP? Is he wealthy? How?
Surely he's not still riding on his commodities exchange profits from over 15 years ago?

He should be sending Cla68 royalty checks.

This post has been edited by cookiehead: Thu 1st December 2011, 7:59pm
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thekohser
post Thu 1st December 2011, 8:50pm
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QUOTE(cookiehead @ Thu 1st December 2011, 2:57pm) *

How much does Wales earn per year? Is his income solely from WP? Is he wealthy? How?
Surely he's not still riding on his commodities exchange profits from over 15 years ago?

He should be sending Cla68 royalty checks.


He does not draw any income directly from Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation. Most of his income is tied to paid speaking engagements and sale of shares of Wikia, Inc. stock.

This has been adroitly covered by one journalist in the mainstream media, thank you very much.

There are publicly-available legal records that itemize to the dollar Jimmy Wales' annual income and expenditures for 2009.

QUOTE
Readers who are interested in obtaining the complete set of public divorce files for Jimmy and Christine Wales may walk up, Monday through Friday, 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM at the Records & Information Management office - Mid-County Branch, 14155 49th Street North, Clearwater, Florida 33760. There is a $1 per page copying fee. Or, you may contact your National Wiki Examiner at ResearchBiz (at) gmail.com to obtain the complete PDF file electronically, for a small processing fee.


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cookiehead
post Thu 1st December 2011, 9:22pm
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Well, then, maybe it's time for "Occupy Wikipedia Street" where the 99% of Wikipedia's content contributors can have their say over the 1% Barnstar Vampires that spend all of their time on WP:ANI crying like children.

Without going on a link hunt to Kohsland, does Jimbo make north of a million annually, round estimates?

If I were Cla68, I'd never contribute another word to a website run by a man who treats one of its finest contributors like that.

This post has been edited by cookiehead: Thu 1st December 2011, 9:26pm
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Cla68
post Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm
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Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago. I think he feels he has a good thing going. He has fame, fortune (more or less), power, and influence, and he is just trying to ride it all out for as long as he can.

Thus, he has no interest in being a true leader, of buckling down and actually using the business management best practices he learned in college, of trying to be a workaholic visionary like Steve Jobs, or of engaging beyond a superficial level with most the volunteers who populate Wikipedia. To do any of those things might get in the way of his groove and spoil his party.

To be fair, he isn't a complete hedonist, but yet he doesn't allow himself to get drawn into anything that would require truly serious, sober, attention in which he would have to sacrifice doing whatever he wants to do when he wants to do it. Being a professional speaker is perfect for him, because that job doesn't require him to show up at an office at a certain time and sit there all day or to maintain proper decorum such as by not dating your subordinates.

Anyway, the purpose of my questions wasn't to give Jimbo a hard time. It was to make sure that observers, and many others watch Jimbo's talk page including journalists, are remembering to hold the WMF to the high standard that the WMF executives are apparently having a hard time holding themselves to. Also, to let the WMF know, whom I assume also watch Jimbo's talk page, that they are expected to act like a real corporate management team, as in actually providing true leadership and not just PR. Nothing less is acceptable.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Thu 1st December 2011, 11:28pm
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RMHED
post Thu 1st December 2011, 11:31pm
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm) *
a workaholic visionary like Steve Jobs,

Yeah, that ended well for Jobs didn't it!

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm) *

To be fair, he isn't a complete hedonist, but yet he doesn't allow himself to get drawn into anything that would require truly serious, sober, attention in which he would have to sacrifice doing whatever he wants to do when he wants to do it.

I think he's got the right idea. Wikipedia isn't worth any sacrifice, take the money and run.

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radek
post Thu 1st December 2011, 11:49pm
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 5:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago. I think he feels he has a good thing going. He has fame, fortune (more or less), power, and influence, and he is just trying to ride it all out for as long as he can.




You had fame and fortune? Let us know!
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Cla68
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 12:05am
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QUOTE(radek @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:49pm) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 5:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago. I think he feels he has a good thing going. He has fame, fortune (more or less), power, and influence, and he is just trying to ride it all out for as long as he can.




You had fame and fortune? Let us know!


I was an American living in Tokyo with a steady, fairly-good paying job, and plenty of time off. At that time, foreigners were still very popular with the Tokyo locals (it isn't so much that way anymore, from what I hear). I had a lot more "fame and fortune" than I had in the US. I tried to take advantage of it as much as possible. I get the impression that Jimbo is living a similar life, but on a much higher plane, of course.
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radek
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 12:37am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 6:05pm) *

QUOTE(radek @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:49pm) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 5:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago. I think he feels he has a good thing going. He has fame, fortune (more or less), power, and influence, and he is just trying to ride it all out for as long as he can.




You had fame and fortune? Let us know!


I was an American living in Tokyo with a steady, fairly-good paying job, and plenty of time off. At that time, foreigners were still very popular with the Tokyo locals (it isn't so much that way anymore, from what I hear). I had a lot more "fame and fortune" than I had in the US. I tried to take advantage of it as much as possible. I get the impression that Jimbo is living a similar life, but on a much higher plane, of course.


Harumpf.
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mbz1
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 1:55am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago.

I doubt marriage is going to help Jimbo. After all he's going to be married the third time, but so far I see no positive result blink.gif

This post has been edited by mbz1: Fri 2nd December 2011, 1:56am
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mbz1
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 2:13am
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And here comes our own Radek
Selected quotes:
QUOTE
I suspect that you want stuff related to this put to rest. But reading over it again - particularly some of the more idiotic responses and ad hominen attacks that were made against Cla68 by devoted but misguided sycophants (this seems to always happen on this talk page, but not on other users' talk pages, mind if I borrow some of these courtiers sometime?) - it strikes me how much you and Wikipedia Review really need each other.

Think of the "biggest controversies" that have happened on Wikipedia so far, the ones that actually got spilled over into the "mainstream media". Let's pick Essjay and the short-selling thing. In both cases, WR was the first one to bring these up, did all the ground work and made Wikipedia look stupid as a result. BUT. What would have happened if WR had not existed? The chicanery would've come up sooner or later, and by bringing it up sooner rather than later, WR actually did Wikipedia a huge favor. How much worse would've it been if Essjay etc. kept on going for a year or two longer? Wikipedia would've wound up looking much worse as a result.

QUOTE
For all the hate talk towards WR by some Wikipedia devotees, it actually does the encyclopedia a huge favor. It's pretty obvious that one thing that Wikipedia is horrible at is self-criticism, self-reflection, and even self-correction (bad ideas, and even bad edits, persist and over time get incorporated into the institutional structure of the site). It needs an outside voice, no matter how disagreeable and cynical it is, that can serve as an INDEPENDENT check on it. Otherwise you just gonna get a lot of discussion about how great we all are. Which is nice and all, does great things for our self-esteem, but it is completely useless in terms of improving the project (not to mention it makes Wikipedians seem like a bunch of seven year olds in constant need of affirmation)

If Wikipedia Review didn't exist, you'd probably have to invent it.
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Cla68
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 2:15am
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Fri 2nd December 2011, 1:55am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago.

I doubt marriage is going to help Jimbo. After all he's going to be married the third time, but so far I see no positive result blink.gif


If I understand right, to get someone to change deeply entrenched attitudes and motivation usually requires a Significant Emotional Experience. I suspect Tiger Woods had his as he groggily awoke from unconsciouness next to his wrecked, shattered SUV.
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mbz1
post Fri 2nd December 2011, 2:32am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 2nd December 2011, 2:15am) *

QUOTE(mbz1 @ Fri 2nd December 2011, 1:55am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 1st December 2011, 11:25pm) *

Actually, I think I understand Jimbo because he reminds me a little of myself before I got married and serious over 10 years ago.

I doubt marriage is going to help Jimbo. After all he's going to be married the third time, but so far I see no positive result blink.gif


If I understand right, to get someone to change deeply entrenched attitudes and motivation usually requires a Significant Emotional Experience. I suspect Tiger Woods had his as he groggily awoke from unconsciouness next to his wrecked, shattered SUV.

Well, as we all know Jimbo had at least two "Significant Emotional Experiences" besides marriages:

1. His girlfriend sold his clothing on Ebay
QUOTE
My name is Rachel and my (now ex) boyfriend, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, just broke up with me via an announcement on Wikipedia. It was such a classy move that I was inspired to do something equally classy myself, so I'm selling a couple of items of clothing he left behind, here in my NYC apartment, on eBay. Jimbo was supposed to come visit me in a couple of weeks and pick up some of his stuff, but obviously that won't be happening now.

Both of these items have been washed, twice, with Tide extra-strength liquid detergent. Otherwise, they would not be in salable condition. I took them out of GitMo style isolation from a plastic bag in my closet (where they were placed to prevent the ongoing terrorism of my olfactory senses) and washed them out for the purposes of this auction. Even so, this particular item -- a medium sized, black "Starter" brand shirt -- has two white stains (one on the sleeve, as shown in the photo, and one in the back) which I have been unable to remove.

2. BBC reported that "Wiki boss 'edited for donation'"
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