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> Shoemaker's Holiday flames out
carbuncle
post Fri 20th November 2009, 11:07pm
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There seems to have been some kind of feud going on between Shoemaker's Holiday and Durova over image restorations and something called "the WikiCup". If I understand the gist of the discussions on Talk:Featured picture candidates,
  • Shoemaker's Holiday felt that Durova was cheating,
  • Durova told him to fuck off during a conversation which had been recorded by Shoemaker's Holiday,
  • Shoemaker's Holiday uploaded the recording,
  • it was oversighted as copyvio,
  • Shoemaker's Holiday started throwing around accusations that "Durova has a corrupt oversighter in her pocket",
  • Durova referenced SH's Adam Cuerden account on commons which SH took as outing,
  • SH's head explodes all over WP:AN

Here's the short-lived AN discussion in full
QUOTE

What the fuck is going on here?

I was outed by Durova on WT:FPC. I've asked for it to be oversighted SIX FUCKING DAYS ago.

WHY hasn't anything been done? Has Wikipedia decided to throw out all its policies?

FURTHER VIOLATIONS OF POLICY IN THE LAST WEEK

* Wikipedia:Deletion_review#List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_
assessment_of_global_warming is ful of votes that go directly against the Deletion guidelines.

* [5] as oversighted oin defiance of WP:OVBRSIGHT. Thje oversighters say that it is accepted, but couldn't damn well be bothered to change their stated rules, then complained about how horrible I was to ppoint out that it was against the stated rules after waiting three days for an explanation from the oversighter in question.

* As discussed on WT:FPC, Duroa attacked me off-site in an attempt to suppress dissent on her Featured picture nominations. When I brought it up, they said they didn't even want to see the evidence.


WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE? CAN'T WIKIPEDIA FOLLOW IT'S OWN DAMN POLICIES ANYMORE?! Shoemaker's Holiday talk 17:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

* Please calm down, thanks. Majorly talk 17:30, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
* And to answer your question: It never did. And not everyone's interpretation of THE RULES is the same as yours. WP:TRUTH might be useful. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

STOP FUCKING AROUND AND OVERSIGHT THE FUCKING OUTING Shoemaker's Holiday talk 17:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[indent]This sounds like something more suited for email to arbcom-l-at-lists.wikimedia.org, arbcom-audit-en-at-lists.wikimedia.org, or cu-ombuds-l-at-lists.wikimedia.org, since discussion at this noticeboard is likely to lead to further details being disclosed in the course of discussion that may prejudice future claims of anonymity. MBisanz talk 17:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


Jehochman wisely removed the thread soon after. SH hasn't been active since early November.
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Jon Awbrey
post Fri 20th November 2009, 11:18pm
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Is that a corrupt oversighter in your pocket … or …

evilgrin.gif laugh.gif tongue.gif
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CharlotteWebb
post Sat 21st November 2009, 12:16am
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 20th November 2009, 11:07pm) *
  • Durova told him to fuck off during a conversation which had been recorded by Shoemaker's Holiday,

blink.gif Whoa, awesome.
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GlassBeadGame
post Sat 21st November 2009, 12:34am
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The idea of someone cheating for something called a "Wikicup" is just hilarious.
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Somey
post Sat 21st November 2009, 12:40am
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I'm guessing the "corrupt oversighter" is supposed to be Rlevse (T-C-L-K-R-D) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322599373

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...alk_page_is_for

So he's actually correct in that respect, but it's understandable that nobody will listen to him. Shoemaker's Holiday (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been showing a penchant for histrionics ever since "health problems" meant he was "unable to go to university this year," which seems to have resulted in "a complete breakdown" that Durova was "fully aware of." There was also that incident over the audio file of the WikiVoices Roundtable session that never got uploaded, for reasons still never publicly explained (though presumably it was because Greg Kohs was involved).
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dogbiscuit
post Sat 21st November 2009, 1:24am
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Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
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Oddly enough, that conversation leads to a complete tangent where Durova does some OR in discovering her source is wrong.

She seems to prefer Truth, not Verifiability. She won't last long like that. Someone tell Slim quick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322559840

QUOTE(Durova)
The Library of Congress is a reliable source, and once in a blue moon reliable sources are wrong.
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thekohser
post Sat 21st November 2009, 3:23am
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 20th November 2009, 6:07pm) *
  • Shoemaker's Holiday uploaded the recording,


Oh, the irony.

I wonder how Risker and all the others who were "disappointed" in my having to be re-banned, thanks to my dust-up with this Adam "Shoemaker's Holiday" Cuerden critter, are feeling about backing him as their horse?
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Milton Roe
post Sat 21st November 2009, 3:38am
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QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Fri 20th November 2009, 6:24pm) *

Oddly enough, that conversation leads to a complete tangent where Durova does some OR in discovering her source is wrong.

She seems to prefer Truth, not Verifiability. She won't last long like that. Someone tell Slim quick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322559840

QUOTE(Durova)
The Library of Congress is a reliable source, and once in a blue moon reliable sources are wrong.


Gadzooks, it's actually the Dred Earl Roberts! Our Cluedo guess had formerly been Lord Kitchener, in the library, with a pen. Or at least General Gordon, at Khartoum, with a sword. blink.gif
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Jon Awbrey
post Sat 21st November 2009, 3:52am
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Fri 20th November 2009, 7:34pm) *

The idea of someone cheating for something called a "Wikicup" is just hilarious.


I had to go and G◉◉gle It … and here I didn't even know that Sh♀♀maker's H♀liday was a girl.

Just chalk it up to my education …

Jon sick.gif
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Somey
post Sat 21st November 2009, 4:43am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 20th November 2009, 9:23pm) *
I wonder how Risker and all the others who were "disappointed" in my having to be re-banned, thanks to my dust-up with this Adam "Shoemaker's Holiday" Cuerden critter, are feeling about backing him as their horse?

I have to say, this user's behavior is so genuinely weird, with such over-the-top histrionics, I have to wonder if his recent WP activities aren't all some sort of big joke, or what the WP'ers would call "performance art."

The article where he's been having the most trouble (up until this incident, anyway) is List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming (T-H-L-K-D). SH claims to believe in the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming, but believes that this article is being used as a "coat-rack" for WP fringe theorists who are taking quotes from various scientists "out of context" and thus creating an article that's essentially a sneaky anti-GW backdoor into WP, not to mention full of BLP violations. At least that's the impression I got. He might actually be right, but he's in the minority as far as the other WP'ers are concerned, including William M. Connelley (T-C-L-K-R-D) and Polargeo (T-C-L-K-R-D) , who SH accused of "trolling" in an edit summary after he tried to get SH to reconsider this DRV on the article after it had been kept by a less-than-overwhelming majority.

This article even garnered an appearance from SlimVirgin, who after not having done much with it previously, swooped in to remove a whole bunch of POV and other tags from it because she felt there was "no need" for all of them. (To be fair, she was probably right.)

What it looks like to me is that SH has failed to get his way too many times on WP, and he's really, really pissed off about it - but rather than just leave, he seems hell-bent on making sure everyone knows why he's pissed off, and also making sure everyone feels as guilty about opposing him as possible, by his inclusion of multiple references to his recent (unexplained?) medical problems.
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Wiki Witch of the West
post Sat 21st November 2009, 5:02am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:40am) *

I'm guessing the "corrupt oversighter" is supposed to be Rlevse (T-C-L-K-R-D) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322599373

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...alk_page_is_for

So he's actually correct in that respect, but it's understandable that nobody will listen to him. Shoemaker's Holiday (T-C-L-K-R-D) has been showing a penchant for histrionics ever since "health problems" meant he was "unable to go to university this year," which seems to have resulted in "a complete breakdown" that Durova was "fully aware of." There was also that incident over the audio file of the WikiVoices Roundtable session that never got uploaded, for reasons still never publicly explained (though presumably it was because Greg Kohs was involved).

Dead wrong, Somey. When he made that accusation onsite he already had an invitation to talk it over with any Oversighter. I had emailed the request to the Oversight list. Perfectly standard and above board.

Sorry, the princess is in another castle. wink.gif

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 21st November 2009, 3:38am) *

QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Fri 20th November 2009, 6:24pm) *

Oddly enough, that conversation leads to a complete tangent where Durova does some OR in discovering her source is wrong.

She seems to prefer Truth, not Verifiability. She won't last long like that. Someone tell Slim quick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=322559840

QUOTE(Durova)
The Library of Congress is a reliable source, and once in a blue moon reliable sources are wrong.


Gadzooks, it's actually the Dred Earl Roberts! Our Cluedo guess had formerly been Lord Kitchener, in the library, with a pen. Or at least General Gordon, at Khartoum, with a sword. blink.gif

Milton, the Signpost reported on this in the November 11 issue. That correction came courtesy of Roger Davies, who supplied two separate reliable sources. LoC confirmed Roger's research and is updating their bibliographic records.

This post has been edited by Wiki Witch of the West: Sat 21st November 2009, 5:03am
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Somey
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:09am
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QUOTE(Wiki Witch of the West @ Fri 20th November 2009, 11:02pm) *
Dead wrong, Somey. When he made that accusation onsite he already had an invitation to talk it over with any Oversighter.

Dead wrong about which part? unsure.gif

If you're referring to the bit about Rlevse being "corrupt," I didn't necessarily mean that this particular incident (or the specific accusation) proved he was "corrupt." Also, it depends on how you define "corrupt," I suppose. I'm sure he doesn't accept bribes, or anything like that.

Unless you meant that the invitation to talk things over with any Oversighter meant that my suggestion that "nobody would listen to him" is incorrect? You may be right I suppose, but of course an invitation to talk doesn't equal an actual attempt to listen, much less actually address his "concerns" - which are mostly specious regardless, right? It's a no-win situation.

In general there's probably no way you can "win" with someone like Shoemaker's Holiday (T-H-L-K-D), based on what I'm seeing. He's simply going to be a source of interpersonal problems, a "drama-magnet," or both at the same time.

And what did happen to that recording, anyway?
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trenton
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:36am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:09am) *

In general there's probably no way you can "win" with someone like Shoemaker's Holiday (T-H-L-K-D), based on what I'm seeing. He's simply going to be a source of interpersonal problems, a "drama-magnet," or both at the same time.


Out of two people, one of whom is Durova, I would never have imagined the other person being labeled the drama-magnet tongue.gif
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Somey
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:45am
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QUOTE(trenton @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:36am) *
Out of two people, one of whom is Durova, I would never have imagined the other person being labeled the drama-magnet tongue.gif

Just to be clear, I would say Durova is more like a large piece of drama-iron who is irresistibly attracted to drama-magnets, and is such a heavy presence once she arrives on the scene that it's difficult to distinguish between her and the drama-magnet - and indeed, there may be no practical difference at that point.

Still, I don't think she deliberately starts or initiates problems, only deliberately gets involved in them and draws more unnecessary attention to them, often not for the general betterment of all. In some ways she might also compound problems, which some would say is the same thing.
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Wiki Witch of the West
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:45am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 21st November 2009, 6:09am) *

QUOTE(Wiki Witch of the West @ Fri 20th November 2009, 11:02pm) *
Dead wrong, Somey. When he made that accusation onsite he already had an invitation to talk it over with any Oversighter.

Dead wrong about which part? unsure.gif

If you're referring to the bit about Rlevse being "corrupt," I didn't necessarily mean that this particular incident (or the specific accusation) proved he was "corrupt." Also, it depends on how you define "corrupt," I suppose. I'm sure he doesn't accept bribes, or anything like that.

Unless you meant that the invitation to talk things over with any Oversighter meant that my suggestion that "nobody would listen to him" is incorrect? You may be right I suppose, but of course an invitation to talk doesn't equal an actual attempt to listen, much less actually address his "concerns" - which are mostly specious regardless, right? It's a no-win situation.

In general there's probably no way you can "win" with someone like Shoemaker's Holiday (T-H-L-K-D), based on what I'm seeing. He's simply going to be a source of interpersonal problems, a "drama-magnet," or both at the same time.

And what did happen to that recording, anyway?

Well, it also depends on how you define the acting oversighter. To the best of my knowledge it wasn't Rlevse. So let Rlevse wriggle off that hook, okay?

As for the latter part of your post, good points there. Shoemaker does fantastic content work and some of his best strengths are in encyclopedic media content where WMF has very few volunteers. It's a shame to see that much talent in someone who--well--can't dispute the negatives. If you'll excuse it, though, after having torn a hole into him that badly in private would rather not pour salt on it here.
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EricBarbour
post Sat 21st November 2009, 10:52am
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QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 20th November 2009, 10:45pm) *
Just to be clear, I would say Durova is more like a large piece of drama-iron who is irresistibly attracted to drama-magnets, and is such a heavy presence once she arrives on the scene that it's difficult to distinguish between her and the drama-magnet - and indeed, there may be no practical difference at that point.

Yup. Should be obvious by now.
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thekohser
post Sat 21st November 2009, 12:59pm
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Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?
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anthony
post Sat 21st November 2009, 2:06pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:59pm) *

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?


Just another "great success story" for unorganized crowdsourcing. Things like this happen when you work on the belief that "volunteers can't be told what to do".

This post has been edited by anthony: Sat 21st November 2009, 2:09pm
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Wiki Witch of the West
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:22pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:59pm) *

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?

You'd be better off getting that from the horse's mouth, Greg. What I had done my best to ensure was to match up the episode to one dedicated editor. WikiVoices had two audio editors who were really on the ball: Privatemusings and Filll. When either of them made a commitment the episode got done, pronto. But Filll moved on to other things and Privatemusings isn't around very much anymore. We've got several other people who have the skills but don't always prioritize, and they got into the habit of "sharing" editing work. Which tends to slow things down even more. X says "Y has it" or "Y's doing that part". A day and a half later Y comes on and responds "I said I'd take a look at it but I didn't make any promises." Then wait for X to log on again...

I've often thought about learning the software and picking up audio editing too. Haven't done so because of the worry that extra recordings would happen without a commitment from me, and the editing would end up in my lap.

We really do need another good dependable editor.
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Wiki Witch of the West
post Sat 21st November 2009, 6:57pm
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QUOTE(anthony @ Sat 21st November 2009, 2:06pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 21st November 2009, 12:59pm) *

Durova, now might be a good time to finally disclose -- why exactly was Episode 45 of Wikivoices suppressed by Adam Cuerden?


Just another "great success story" for unorganized crowdsourcing. Things like this happen when you work on the belief that "volunteers can't be told what to do".


Anthony, sometimes within a pool of volunteer labor you get what you pay for. wink.gif
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