Should Abd haz buttonz?, tell me about your childhood Options

[SB_Johnny]

Well, not quite a masterpiece, but hey, I'm a part-timer.

WP:RFA would be more fun if I could say things like that, no?

[It's the blimp, Frank]

People will abandon or refuse to start editing the project if they know that having disagreements with an admin can make them appear in that sort of list. -- Enric Naval

Well, it beats being summarily banned, which is more typically the case.

Do we want Admins here compiling scathing indictments of their fellow editors? —Albatross (talk)

Couldn't hurt.

[Abd]

Well, not quite a masterpiece, but hey, I'm a part-timer.

WP:RFA would be more fun if I could say things like that, no?

Wikiversity is a far more open place, by nature. SBJ apparently does not know the history. Enric Naval has been a major factor in the banning of experts from the wikipedia Cold fusion article. I answered his questions thoroughly. SBJ doesn't like thorough answers, and that dislike represents part of the problem (on all wikis) but it should be understood that the present discussion isn't toward deciding anything. If a mentor agrees, by Wikiversity policy, I become a probationary custodian. The process isn't a contested one at this point. The time for all this discussion would be later, with a consideration of full custodianship. I could have, procedurally, ignored all the questions at this time. I chose not to. That's all.

The arguments there are singularly evidence-free. I was a probationary custodian for more than a month, involved in controversy then, with no sign of the abuse of powers that is being alleged as likely. Those allegations are coming from highly biased persons, just a few. The discussion is not generally followed, until there is a decision to be made about full custodianship, because, at this point, it's only a formality. If the volunteer mentor had not been on vacation, a fact I didn't notice until I put up the candidacy, I'd already have the bit (it's done immediately, without discussion.) To avoid any appearance of impropriety, I have not communicated with Jtneill off-wiki, on this. No email. It's all open, hence the flies are attracted.

SBJ should know better, but he doesn't. When he ran into difficulties at Wikiversity, he bailed. When the way was paved -- by me -- for him to do something simple and useful, he returned, much to Ottava's dismay. But the fact is that without my work, he'd have had nothing to do. He doesn't like thorough discussion, he's of the old school that, in fact, is responsible for the decline and fall of the wiki model. To move into the future, something else is needed, and thorough discussion is part of it, but not "thorough discussion" just anywhere, that's what good process would establish. It will all be visible later, Wikiversity is a model. And I don't need custodial tools, at all, to accomplish my goals at Wikiversity. The idea that I'd abuse them is pure bullshit, the very opposite of what I believe in and have demonstrated, but being asserted by people who have themselves been abusive with whatever power they possessed, including the power to lie on wikipedia and get away with it.

SBJ doesn't lie, he simply gets in over his head.

I'm not normally watching Wikipedia Review now, I saw this because I pushed the wrong button.

[Ottava]

I'm confused as to why Abd thinks Temporary Custodianship is a given. He assumes all of these rights and such out of nowhere.

[SB_Johnny]

I'm confused as to why Abd thinks Temporary Custodianship is a given. He assumes all of these rights and such out of nowhere.

Actually, it really is a given, assuming James signs on the dotted line.

SBJ doesn't lie, he simply gets in over his head.

Yeah, that's my cross-wiki career in a nutshell. I liked the feeling of being helpful and trusted to be helpful, but the politics are bad enough to ruin the experience.

[Ottava]

I'm confused as to why Abd thinks Temporary Custodianship is a given. He assumes all of these rights and such out of nowhere.

Actually, it really is a given, assuming James signs on the dotted line.

Not necessarily. Community consensus still rules and I don't think Jtneill would want to cross the community especially when JWS and Moulton are prominently on one side.

[Abd]

I'm confused

Indeed.

as to why Abd thinks Temporary Custodianship is a given. He assumes all of these rights and such out of nowhere.

Uh, the policy on custodianship is explicit, and precedent follows it and is clear. Anyone may become a Wikiversity custodian if another custodian agrees to mentor. There is no procedure for a decision based on a discussion. Discussion is required for permanent custodianship. Consider Salmon of Doubt. Controversial. SBJ agreed to mentor and set the bit, since he's a 'crat. He also set conditions, and apparently felt that he could handle supervising SOD; indeed, there were no problems. Probationary custodianship on wikiversity is quite safe, as long as the mentor is active.

Actually, it really is a given, assuming James signs on the dotted line.

Right. James made the offer, I didn't ask for it. We could have done it immediately, a month ago, but I was travelling, etc. James could change his mind, of course. I suspect he won't, but my crystal ball is in the shop.

Not necessarily. Community consensus still rules and I don't think Jtneill would want to cross the community especially when JWS and Moulton are prominently on one side.

Of course consensus rules, but the community has not been asked, and won't be. I withdrew the candidacy, it was started in error (I didn't realize James was on wikibreak) and was just attracting flies. I'll discuss it with James when he returns. No sense bothering him now. But this thing about JWS and Moulton being on the same side is weird. Same side as each other? They always have been. Same side as me? Didn't Ottava just try to use alleged hostility toward Moulton as his reason to oppose the candidacy? And JWS opposes everyone.

Ah! I get it! This is Ottava Rima. Never mind, it's all clear now.

This post has been edited by Abd:

[Enric_Naval]

(...) SBJ apparently does not know the history. Enric Naval has been a major factor in the banning of experts from the wikipedia Cold fusion article.

And now I'm being painted as some sort of big bad villain.

I answered his questions thoroughly. SBJ doesn't like thorough answers, (...)

And SBJ only opposed him because of spurious reasons.


Remember, Abd is never wrong. It's always someone's else fault that everything goes belly-up when he enters the field.

[Abd]

(...) SBJ apparently does not know the history. Enric Naval has been a major factor in the banning of experts from the wikipedia Cold fusion article.

And now I'm being painted as some sort of big bad villain.

I answered his questions thoroughly. SBJ doesn't like thorough answers, (...)

And SBJ only opposed him because of spurious reasons.


Remember, Abd is never wrong. It's always someone's else fault that everything goes belly-up when he enters the field.

Never wrong? Wow! I hadn't noticed that. Are you sure?

Hadn't noticed the spurs on SBJ either.

[Enric_Naval]

Oh, look, Abd is doing it again:

And Enric Naval, who has a huge axe to grind, since before I ever encountered him, he's behind a series of bans that have warped Wikipedia consensus,

Oh, I am also forcing his hand to go back to arbcom. How evil of little me:

and, apparently, I'm being forced to take this back to ArbComm for enforcement of prior decisions. ''Forced,'' I'm quite reluctant.

Followed by some mixed commentary about other editors in the request.

[Abd]

Oh, look, Abd is doing it again:

And Enric Naval, who has a huge axe to grind, since before I ever encountered him, he's behind a series of bans that have warped Wikipedia consensus,

Oh, I am also forcing his hand to go back to arbcom. How evil of little me:

and, apparently, I'm being forced to take this back to ArbComm for enforcement of prior decisions. ''Forced,'' I'm quite reluctant.

Followed by some mixed commentary about other editors in the request.

Hmmm.... "evil." while the site is banal, nevertheless, within the terms of the drama, the word is appropriate for vicious stupidity and a willingness to lie to gain a desired outcome. I think it's gone far enough.

All this for a 48 hour block with no effect whatever. I have a lot of RL responsibility in the next month, but it's clear that this pack of dogs isn't going to stop, so I might as well go ahead when I find time. If ArbComm doesn't like it, tough.

Enric already tried to coerce me from doing the study on Netknowledge.org, imagining that I'd care if I don't become a sysop. Maybe I'll start tightening that up.

Never poke a bear with nothing to lose.

[Abd]

This was really a beaut. High drama over nothing. Enric Naval comes positively unglued. Sandstein closes with what I've come to expect: he drops his paper-weight brain on the problem.

I didn't comment on WMC, period. Not one part of that MfD vote was about WMC. It was about a page, only it was only procedural.

"Silly drama" referred to people so obsessed about the page, so much so that even though the original objections -- to the edit summaries in the original deleted page -- had been addressed by the new version, that they were insisting on deleting it. BozMo was clearly frustrated by the insanity of it.

This is the truth: my !vote on that MfD would probably match WMC's. I'd !voted in a previous MfD to support Keeping one of his pages. I'm far more congenial with WMC than with most of these idiots.

Anyway, I'd looked in the evidence I presented on this discussion, about my AfD participation. Damn! I was really wasting a lot of time working on Wikipedia, for a while there! I was doing good work, the radio amateurs were grateful, for example. I stopped that when the thousand cuts became just too much, while the "community" did nothing. I'd often intervened when I saw others being abused; but people stopped showing up when I was hauled before AE for something new that was harmless. To be fair, one of the main defenders was indeffed. By the same people. That was part of the climate change mess, but it was taken up by ArbComm too late to help him.

And Enric has taken the obvious meaning of "polls" in the MYOB ban, the specific an explicit permission given me, and twisted it completely out of recognition, until it means nothing, maybe I'm allowed to vote for Arbitrators or something. I've been commenting in AfDs all year, and almost every AfD is a "dispute," AfDs are always structured as polls, and this was never considered a problem, it was only when it touched on something of possible interest to the cabal, or they saw it as an opportunity to try to ding me, that this utterly stupid argument came up.

There was some very cogent argument presented by several editors in this AE request. Useless, because Sandstein doesn't understand "cogent." He just understands how to push a block button. Totally useless, I wouldn't be editing anyway for the next 48 hours. That was another gem in this AE request. TenOfAllTrades, filing the request, suggests that a week ban is too little because I wouldn't feel it, since I'm hardly editing. Thus betraying a punitive intention, blocks are supposed to hurt. And I think they really think this way.

The only disruption here was the AE request. And that's obvious. So .... I'll use this.

I have a different mission now. I'll exact a price for this, or gain a different benefit. There are at least two possible beneficial outcomes.

1. A set of vicious liars, mostly worse than those already sanctioned in the climate change mess, get what they've long deserved and the project is freed from them. Small benefit, though, others will take their place.

2. I get fully banned, which frees me to do whatever the hell I please, with no sense of obligation to respect "consensus," there. Respect is a two-way street.

This is all justified by the value to the project of going after serious abusers, who have long been driving away many other editors, most of them without it even being noticed. I'll be starting with issues that ArbComm already decided, but these "owners" have long defied ArbComm, which was mostly too distracted and to paralyzed to deal with them.

I'll present an opportunity to the new arbitrators; we'll see if they take it up. Some are smart enough. Iridescent got elected!

However, I've already found that I have much better things to do off-wiki, and, to the extent that there is any future to WMF wikis, I suspect it is at Wikiversity, which is far more open to functional structure and behavior.

Along the way, some previous injustices might get fixed. I'm not talking about myself. I never thought of myself as being that important as an editor. Some of my process insights might be important, but you can lead a horse to water....

This post has been edited by Abd:

[Adrignola]

However, I've already found that I have much better things to do off-wiki, and, to the extent that there is any future to WMF wikis, I suspect it is at Wikiversity, which is far more open to functional structure and behavior.

And Wikibooks. Right? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Abd]

However, I've already found that I have much better things to do off-wiki, and, to the extent that there is any future to WMF wikis, I suspect it is at Wikiversity, which is far more open to functional structure and behavior.

And Wikibooks. Right? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

Yes, Wikibooks, though I see Wikibooks as becoming a "publishing arm" of Wikiversity. I.e., Wikiversity, as a very open academic community, develops books, building them as part of the activity of educational resources. Wikibooks has policies that are too restrictive to be reliable for content building, but it could be a great place to put finished texts, Wikiversity is sloppy, fertile,

I have some Wikibooks projects in mind, but ... if I'm going to write a book, why don't I publish it traditionally? What's the reason to do it on Wikibooks? After all, the workman, the meat.

But classes can develop books as group projects, so the work is shared, and this content being free is appropriate.

I have the impression of Wikibooks as being a bit stalled, and I think I'm pointing to a possible cause: too much work is involved in a book, and, just as a book, it doesn't fit well as a wiki project. However, there are some books being worked on, on Wikiversity, now, that will be serious academic publications.

And one of them almost got deleted, because the editor was using categories in a weird way, to organize a lot of material. Maybe, but it looked very weird, which, to some people, means Delete. Especially people who come to Wikiversity with a Wikipedia State of Mind.

Come on over to Wikiversity, Adrignola, we can use you, with your courage and good sense.

There are still problems at Wikiversity, we are not out of the woods, but there is visible light. Even Ottava is making jokes, and, damn! I think Moulton is doing some serious work. Still the Clown Sock, but, hey, it takes all kinds. Getting some Atrocious Song Parodies, no extra charge.

(I have a serious proposal to make about Clown Socks....

[SB_Johnny]

He haz buttons now. Those who enjoy Ottava watching might want to see what dear Jeffrey tries to do about it.

And yes, I hit the button, but only because teh rulez said I should.

Good luck, Abdul.

[Ottava]

He haz buttons now. Those who enjoy Ottava watching might want to see what dear Jeffrey tries to do about it.

And yes, I hit the button, but only because teh rulez said I should.

Good luck, Abdul.

Great, purely abusing your ops. Like most abusers of the WMF, you don't give a damn about the community. You are some piece of work.

[SB_Johnny]

He haz buttons now. Those who enjoy Ottava watching might want to see what dear Jeffrey tries to do about it.

And yes, I hit the button, but only because teh rulez said I should.

Good luck, Abdul.

Great, purely abusing your ops. Like most abusers of the WMF, you don't give a damn about the community. You are some piece of work.

Jeffrey Peters: you know that the "community" isn't in your head, right?

You've pretty much done your worst to me, so your lame attempt on meta ain't worrying me all that much. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Lar]

Jeffrey Peters: you know that the "community" isn't in your head, right?

Are we talking about "the community" of voices in his head? There might be one, who can say?

[GlassBeadGame]

Jeffrey Peters: you know that the "community" isn't in your head, right?

Are we talking about "the community" of voices in his head? There might be one, who can say?

The ultimate in "User Democracy." It allows you to do whatever it is you want. Nobody outside the "the community" need be considered.

[SB_Johnny]

Jeffrey Peters: you know that the "community" isn't in your head, right?

Are we talking about "the community" of voices in his head? There might be one, who can say?

The ultimate in "User Democracy." It allows you to do whatever it is you want. Nobody outside the "the community" need be considered.

In my community, you're all made of LEGOs.

Just saying, and capitalizing LEGO because Lar will hit me if I don't.

[Abd]

He haz buttons now. Those who enjoy Ottava watching might want to see what dear Jeffrey tries to do about it.

And yes, I hit the button, but only because teh rulez said I should.

Good luck, Abdul.

Thanks, SBJ.

One would think the frothing at the mouth would have shorted out Ottava's keyboard by now.

This takes the cake even for Ottava. Emergency desysop request at meta for a routine action, following clear and simple policy? Ottava's been lying about the policy. He cites it, then describes the exact opposite. Policy is clear and explicit, it even says it twice. A candidate can re-apply at any time. A candidate can even, failing community approval in a full application, ask for another mentorship period, without delay.

It's a great policy. I can see some possibiity for abuse, but have seen no example of it.

This is the first time I've seen a 'crat attacked for a routine action. No, I take it back. Ottava attacked Mu301 for returning ops to SBJ, on the latter's coming out of retirement. That was also routine, since it was a voluntary resignation. SBJ wan't facing any kind of process that could have resulted in desysopping.

[SB_Johnny]

This takes the cake even for Ottava.

You're clueless. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Ottava]

By Kylu's recommendation, a Meta based RfC was opened on the matter.

[Lar]

By Kylu's recommendation, a Meta based RfC was opened on the matter.

"recommendation"... that's interesting spin, even for you. Kylu told you to sit down and shut up, is more like it.

[gomi]

When I hear about a "Meta" RFC on an admin promotion on a secondary Wiki through a discussion on Wikipedia Review, Frank Zappa's quip comes to mind:

It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice — there are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia.

This seems to be a case of the former. The 10th anniversary celebrations over Wikipedia seem to be the latter.

[Ottava]

What Lar says: "recommendation"... that's interesting spin, even for you. Kylu told you to sit down and shut up, is more like it.


What Kylu said: "Hiya, take the conversation to [[Requests for comment]] please, rather than debate here. Thanks"

I emphasized the polite words that my -friend- used. The same friend who expressed concerns that consensus was ignored and that an RfC was needed before Stewards should intervene.

[Zoloft]

What Lar says: "recommendation"... that's interesting spin, even for you. Kylu told you to sit down and shut up, is more like it.


What Kylu said: "Hiya, take the conversation to [[Requests for comment]] please, rather than debate here. Thanks"

I emphasized the polite words that my -friend- used. The same friend who expressed concerns that consensus was ignored and that an RfC was needed before Stewards should intervene.

*psyhrink shows me this topic*
"What words come immediately to mind, hmm?"

"Uh... 'dog in the manger' - 'sour grapes' - 'sore loser' - 'obsessed' - 'sour cream' - 'pico de gallo'"

"Pico de gallo? I don't understand..."

"Never mind, I'm just hungry."

*scribbles in notebook*

"Same time next week. We are making extraordinary progress."

[Lar]

What Lar says: "recommendation"... that's interesting spin, even for you. Kylu told you to sit down and shut up, is more like it.


What Kylu said: "Hiya, take the conversation to [[Requests for comment]] please, rather than debate here. Thanks"

I emphasized the polite words that my -friend- used. The same friend who expressed concerns that consensus was ignored and that an RfC was needed before Stewards should intervene.

Kylu's polite. I'm pretty sure that is what Kylu meant.

You also spun "Please have a local discussion about the situation first as a community and develop a local consensus for removal of sysop/bureaucrat rights" into "expressed concerns that consensus was ignored".

[Ottava]

What Lar says: "recommendation"... that's interesting spin, even for you. Kylu told you to sit down and shut up, is more like it.


What Kylu said: "Hiya, take the conversation to [[Requests for comment]] please, rather than debate here. Thanks"

I emphasized the polite words that my -friend- used. The same friend who expressed concerns that consensus was ignored and that an RfC was needed before Stewards should intervene.

Kylu's polite. I'm pretty sure that is what Kylu meant.

You also spun "Please have a local discussion about the situation first as a community and develop a local consensus for removal of sysop/bureaucrat rights" into "expressed concerns that consensus was ignored".

No, I didn't. I was referring to Kylu's statements on IRC.


You are starting to exhibit the Abd sickness - making up things about reality and then applying them in a manner that suits you.

You were de-steward for this nonsense. As MuZemike pointed out, you are just acting in the same petty abusive Wikipedian manner.

[Lar]

You were de-steward for this nonsense. As MuZemike pointed out, you are just acting in the same petty abusive Wikipedian manner.

"Judging from the nebulous accusations and lack of explanations of nearly anything, this sounds more like petty politics than anything else. MuZemike 19:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)"

He's talking about you. Not me. I just called you on your BS. (everyone else, amirite??? ) HTH, HAND.

[Ottava]

You were de-steward for this nonsense. As MuZemike pointed out, you are just acting in the same petty abusive Wikipedian manner.

"Judging from the nebulous accusations and lack of explanations of nearly anything, this sounds more like petty politics than anything else. MuZemike 19:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)"

He's talking about you. Not me. I just called you on your BS. (everyone else, amirite??? ) HTH, HAND.

Damn, is all you can do is lie? This clearly says he was responding to you: "Sorry, meant to be a response to latest thread by Lar"

I can even copy from IRC where he said he was responding to you.

All you do is lie. All you do is troll. Will you apologize for being 100% wrong? No, you wont. Because you are Lar, a person who does nothing but trolls the internet because you are fat, have no self-esteem, and try to make yourself be more important by attacking others and lying about them.



Mods! please deal with Lar's outrageous lies. When confronted with unbelievably overwhelming evidence he just keeps it up. Him, FT2, Abd, etc. All socially ostracised old men who have no real life and must cause problems on the internet to make up for it.

[Lar]

I asked MuZMike to clarify... that edit summary can be taken more than one way. If he clarifies in support of your theory I will be happy to say so.

[RMHED]

All you do is lie. All you do is troll. Will you apologize for being 100% wrong? No, you wont. Because you are Lar, a person who does nothing but trolls the internet because you are fat, have no self-esteem, and try to make yourself be more important by attacking others and lying about them.

Well I'm a skinny drunk with too much self-esteem, and I still think you're a stupid cunt.

[Sxeptomaniac]

Damn, is all you can do is lie? This clearly says he was responding to you: "Sorry, meant to be a response to latest thread by Lar"

I can even copy from IRC where he said he was responding to you.

All you do is lie. All you do is troll. Will you apologize for being 100% wrong? No, you wont. Because you are Lar, a person who does nothing but trolls the internet because you are fat, have no self-esteem, and try to make yourself be more important by attacking others and lying about them.



Mods! please deal with Lar's outrageous lies. When confronted with unbelievably overwhelming evidence he just keeps it up. Him, FT2, Abd, etc. All socially ostracised old men who have no real life and must cause problems on the internet to make up for it.

Taking the high road as usual, I see. Last I checked, the mods had you on moderation, not Lar, so I kinda doubt they plan on rushing to your side. It's no secret: you're the troll, Ottava.

Still, it is rather entertaining to see you flail about in your delusions of grandeur.

[SB_Johnny]

Hey look, an RfC on me!

(Learned about it right here on this very thread! Nice!) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Ottava]

Damn, is all you can do is lie? This clearly says he was responding to you: "Sorry, meant to be a response to latest thread by Lar"

I can even copy from IRC where he said he was responding to you.

All you do is lie. All you do is troll. Will you apologize for being 100% wrong? No, you wont. Because you are Lar, a person who does nothing but trolls the internet because you are fat, have no self-esteem, and try to make yourself be more important by attacking others and lying about them.



Mods! please deal with Lar's outrageous lies. When confronted with unbelievably overwhelming evidence he just keeps it up. Him, FT2, Abd, etc. All socially ostracised old men who have no real life and must cause problems on the internet to make up for it.

Taking the high road as usual, I see. Last I checked, the mods had you on moderation, not Lar, so I kinda doubt they plan on rushing to your side. It's no secret: you're the troll, Ottava.

Still, it is rather entertaining to see you flail about in your delusions of grandeur.

Haven't you bothered to notice that I've been posting sooner than two hours?

And what have you done to try to fix any of the problems on Wiki? You've made a lot of snide comments like many Wiki users here without trying to fix anything. Why is that?

[Abd]

This takes the cake even for Ottava.

You're clueless. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

This is mild for Ottava?

I've been watching him for, what, about three years? Seems to me he's getting worse rapidly.

From one comment he made, I suspect he's drunk most of the time, when this stuff is happening. It would explain a lot.

I met Ottava when Blechnic  (T-C-L-K-R-D) managed to manipulate an apparent consensus at AN to topic-ban Wilhemina Will, a very productive teenage girl, from her favorite activity: DYK, by essentially lying to the community, and it's amazing how many Wikipedians will AGF someone who is claiming that someone else is thoroughly reprehensible. They didn't check the evidence, which either didn't exist, or was a single example of some error conflated into an entire pattern of activity. WW finds a page in the Sandbox, asks an admin about it, who says it's okay, and then creates the page in mainspace, and it turns out to be copyvio. This becomes "creates copyright violations," or stuff like that.

Ottava had been trying to defend WW and had gotten blocked for the effort. I took over, and, before it was done, I was myself blocked for allegedly harassing Fritzpoll. Long story. Fritzpoll later wrote me that it was all a misunderstanding, and became a good friend. GoRight took up the WW cause, reviewing her massive contributions for copyvio, finding none, and she was unbanned.

GoRight, a long-term nemesis of the Global Warming cabal, later got himself banned for trying to defend other users. Wikipedia has a way of doing that.

In any case, when Ottava was blocked, I went to his Talk page and consoled him. I was immediately attacked for this by a certain user, highly disruptive. It was that which caused me to investigate the underlying situation, leading me to find the process problems: a discussion which was never closed, but consensus was assumed without a closing admin, and Fritzpoll, who wasn't feeling too well at the time, had taken upon himself to convey the news to WW. The discussion at first glance appeared to be a consensus, but, in fact, several users had popped in and asked for evidence, which was never provided. Others had written "If what has been asserted is true, then ... she should be banned."

A closing admin would, in theory, review all this, check the evidence, etc. Didn't happen. Great example of Wikipedia process failure.

Blechnic completely disappeared when I confronted the situation. He'd previously been banned for harassing users. Nobody is minding the store, most of the time, on Wikipedia.

Wikiversity is a much smaller and much more highly cooperative community, usually. Ottava is quite an exception, and it's a shame.

Wikiversity, properly understood, has much less natural reason for conflict. Ottava was -- and still is -- trying to change that, to "clean it up" by getting rid of "nonsense" and "fringe science." In other words, make it more like ... Wikipedia.

[Abd]

Hey look, an RfC on me!

(Learned about it right here on this very thread! Nice!) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

What's amazing is how much meta is letting Ottava get away with. The desysop request didn't have a snowball's chance, and if Ottava doesn't know that, he's dangerous. It is, in particular, his penchant for lying about policy and conditions.

The RfC is going to go nowhere, and if Ottava doesn't know that, he's dangerous.

Ottava, when he went to meta to request my desysop, last year, lied to them. As was noticed by Jayvdb, I think it was. Didn't matter. They granted the request, and it was proper, they are not expected to research the arcanities of Wikiversity probationary custodian policy. Did I start ranting and raving about abuse on meta?

No, it would have been stupid, since any WV 'crat could fix the problem if the problem were real. I didn't think it worth the trouble to even ask for just two days of sysop bit. I did ask for another mentor, but nobody volunteered, I think people were a little spooked, and it hadn't been so clearly realized how off-the-wall Ottava was.

Now Ottava has been claiming that because he was my mentor and "unrecommended me," that I'm completely prohibited from seeking custodianship again, which is completely and blatantly contrary to WV policy. And, at the same time, he accuses me of "making stuff up" when I simply describe how wikis work.

Argghh, there I go again, describing what Ottava does as if he's expected to be rational.

You are right, SBJ, I'm clueless.

But I am having some fun anyway. These kids whose pages I'm trying to protect and allow are quite a handful. For all I know they will end up yelling at me for doing something or other. Or not. I can't tell.

Meanwhile, it turns out that KBlott may actually be a physicist, and may end up contributing a lot to coverage of physics topics on Wikiversity. This is one of the worthless users that Ottava tried hard to push away, indef blocking him. It was kind of the last straw, that incident. Sure, KBlott screwed up. But all it took was some friendly advice and support, and he calmed down.

Thanks for being around, SBJ. You really should take some anti-inflammatory for that headache, it looks absolutely awful.

[Ottava]

I've been watching him for, what, about three years? Seems to me he's getting worse rapidly.

From IRC:

<Moulton> Abd writes, "I've been watching Ottava for, what, about three years? Seems to me he's getting worse rapidly." <== The Pot and the Kettle. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
<He who will go unnamed> since 2008, the main learning project at Wikiversity seems to be a search to discover which admin can top Jimbo at disrupting Wikiversity
<Moulton> What do you reckon they are trying to learn by being so erratic?
<Anonymous from the Ozarks> chaos theory
<Moulton> There are much easier ways to learn that.
<He who will go unnamed> it reminds me of a group of 12-year-olds trying to see who has the longest penis
<Ottava> o.O
<Moulton> Oh, now that's a stretch, He who will go unnamed.
<Ottava> I never played that game as a kid
<Ottava> Most boys I knew wouldn't want to see another naked or another see them naked
<Ottava> I have hundreds of pages and I don't get claims by others (except one user who was trolling) that they are fringe and crazy and are based on fake science
<Moulton> Well, you don't pretend to be a scientist. You only pretend to be a literary maven.
<Ottava> Moulton, mind if I quote you?
<Ottava> And people agree that I am a literary maven (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)
<Moulton> When you quote me, be sure to identify me as someone who pretends to be a writer of atrocious song parodies.
<Anonymous from the Ozarks> and pretends to know what they are talking about ;p
<Moulton> Listen to Anonymous from the Ozarks. He knows whereof he speaks.
<Anonymous from the Ozarks> I only pretend to be a color
<Ottava> I only pretend to be awake
<Moulton> I only pretend to read Abd's Textual Wallucinations.

[Abd]

...[something sensible]...

You are starting to exhibit the Abd sickness - making up things about reality and then applying them in a manner that suits you.

When Lar and I are having the same hallucinations, I need to check what I'm drinking and drink more of it.

I suspect that Ottava has a bandage on his hand, because he saw his face in the mirror, thought it was me, and punched it.

You were de-steward for this nonsense. As MuZemike pointed out, you are just acting in the same petty abusive Wikipedian manner.

That is really, really, really funny.

If anyone wants to see the train wreck, here it is..

Wasn't Lar suspended from being a steward because he's an ombudsman? Is this just another of Ottava's little brain farts?

[Adrignola]

Come on over to Wikiversity, Adrignola, we can use you, with your courage and good sense.

There are still problems at Wikiversity, we are not out of the woods, but there is visible light. Even Ottava is making jokes ...

Interesting quoting this in retrospect. Have to be honest: the community-wide environment at Wikiversity is very hostile and has been for as long as I've been following it. Given its penetration compared to Wikibooks, I then feel like my time is better spent at Wikibooks. Just as you don't empathize with why anyone would write a free textbook, I often can't empathize with the convoluted organizational structure, lack of naming consistency, and free-form nature of Wikiversity. Personal differences, you might say. As for Wikibooks being stalled, not if I can help it. I'll push it from the rear if necessary.

Right back at ya: Come on over to Wikibooks, Abd, we can use you, with your courage and good sense. Currently an Ottava-free zone. That goes for you too, SB Johnny.

[Abd]

Come on over to Wikiversity, Adrignola, we can use you, with your courage and good sense.

There are still problems at Wikiversity, we are not out of the woods, but there is visible light. Even Ottava is making jokes ...

Interesting quoting this in retrospect. Have to be honest: the community-wide environment at Wikiversity is very hostile and has been for as long as I've been following it. Given its penetration compared to Wikibooks, I then feel like my time is better spent at Wikibooks. Just as you don't empathize with why anyone would write a free textbook, I often can't empathize with the convoluted organizational structure, lack of naming consistency, and free-form nature of Wikiversity. Personal differences, you might say. As for Wikibooks being stalled, not if I can help it. I'll push it from the rear if necessary.

Right back at ya: Come on over to Wikibooks, Abd, we can use you, with your courage and good sense. Currently an Ottava-free zone. That goes for you too, SB Johnny.

I haven't experienced the environment as hostile, for the most part. Wikiversity was bouncing for a while over Jimbo's intervention, and there are still some reverbrations, one user in particular who seems to prefer complaining about the past to moving on. And Ottava probably went on a bender, or something like that. He really was doing a bit better, and then.... the thought of me becoming a custodian in spite of his Dedicated Effort to Protect Wikiversity from the Horror That Is Abd just threw him over the cliff.

Hostile users show up, sometimes, bringing in Wikipedia conflict or trying to impose Wikipedia ideas. Wikipedia structure sets up inherent conflict. Tough problem. Wikibooks policies don't do it as badly, but some of the same issues still exist there. Do you know what a blow it is to a user to see hours upon hours of hard work deleted?

Yeah, Wikiversity is pretty free-form, but that means that some interesting structures can be built. A university is a collection of schools, not just one school. Different schools can have different approaches. And we can have more than one school that covers a topic!

I intend to bring in, if possible, if the creek don't rise, the whole alternative education community.....

I'm on Wikibooks, my watchlist is on my toolbar, but most of my activity is and will remain, I believe, at Wikiversity. But I'll still help out from time to time.

[Sxeptomaniac]

Taking the high road as usual, I see. Last I checked, the mods had you on moderation, not Lar, so I kinda doubt they plan on rushing to your side. It's no secret: you're the troll, Ottava.

Still, it is rather entertaining to see you flail about in your delusions of grandeur.

Haven't you bothered to notice that I've been posting sooner than two hours?

And what have you done to try to fix any of the problems on Wiki? You've made a lot of snide comments like many Wiki users here without trying to fix anything. Why is that?

Nope, I really haven't bothered to notice. Good for you. Still, you calling for mods as if they were mommy and daddy (and you were the family tattletale) is no less hilarious. You're an annoying person, which makes needling you entertaining. Frankly, I could use some cheering up lately, so you've been a very convenient clown. It's not very nice, and I do apologize for that, but I find it difficult to feel sorry for you when you bring so much scorn down on yourself.

I've made some minor contributions, but I'm not out to save the Wiki. The anti-ID feud was the closest I would like to come to fighting big battles. I'm not out to be the savior of the Wiki. There are far too many crusaders on-wiki as it is, and 99% percent of those are idiots, either committed to stupid causes or stupidly committed to their cause. Nope, I'll stick to actually making some small changes now and then... when was the last time you fixed something on Wikipedia, Ottava?

[Lar]

...when was the last time you fixed something on Wikipedia, Ottava?

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

[Ottava]

...when was the last time you fixed something on Wikipedia, Ottava?

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

I have more high quality articles on Wikipedia while banned than you ever put up in your whole "career" there. I treated Wikipedia like an encyclopedia. You treated it as a way to make up for your own lack of self-esteem by treating others like crap.

You are a Myspacing bully, which is one of the most pathetic of personality types..

[Lar]

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

I have more high quality articles on Wikipedia while banned than you ever put up in your whole "career" there.

Do I know how to call them, or what?

[Sxeptomaniac]

...when was the last time you fixed something on Wikipedia, Ottava?

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

I have more high quality articles on Wikipedia while banned than you ever put up in your whole "career" there. I treated Wikipedia like an encyclopedia. You treated it as a way to make up for your own lack of self-esteem by treating others like crap.

You are a Myspacing bully, which is one of the most pathetic of personality types..

Thank you for putting "career" in quotes. If I considered work at WP any kind of actual career, it would mean I take it far too seriously. And you are correct, in that I don't treat WP like an encyclopedia at times, because, in many ways, it's not.

As far as your accusations of bullying: Those who live in glass houses... The last person to call me a "bully" was Odd nature (I imagine you remember him, charming fellow). Perhaps that means I only bully bullies.

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

I have more high quality articles on Wikipedia while banned than you ever put up in your whole "career" there.

Do I know how to call them, or what?

Yep. Like clockwork, that one. That he thinks he can wound me by showing how much more obsessed with WP he is only adds to the humor.

This post has been edited by Sxeptomaniac:

[Ottava]

Queue up how he's created all these awesome articles by proxy...

I have more high quality articles on Wikipedia while banned than you ever put up in your whole "career" there.

Do I know how to call them, or what?

Call what? You tried to taunt me about the articles, I pointed out how your taunt is verification that you do nothing but bully others.

Instead of, gasp, working on an encyclopedia your primary purpose is ego masturbation.

Do you think that some how makes you acceptable? Look at the Dick nominations where you tried to claim you didn't deserve it and multiple people pointed out you did. You are one of the biggest (quite literally!!) douche bags on Wikipedia. People -loathe- you. You do -nothing- on Wikipedia. Why are you even there?

Can't you find some better place to spew hate all day?


I find it ironic that Jimbo once told me that Wikipedia Review is filled with hateful people. It is ironic because the nastiest, most vile people here are the ones who run Wikipedia and use this as just another platform to bully and abuse others.



Sxepomaniac

As far as your accusations of bullying: Those who live in glass houses... The last person to call me a "bully"...

I was talking to Lar, not you.

[Lar]

Sxepomaniac

As far as your accusations of bullying: Those who live in glass houses... The last person to call me a "bully"...

I was talking to Lar, not you.

He was talking to you though. Not that you'd listen.

[Milton Roe]

I find it ironic that Jimbo once told me that Wikipedia Review is filled with hateful people. It is ironic because the nastiest, most vile people here are the ones who run Wikipedia and use this as just another platform to bully and abuse others.

Now that's a fine generalization. The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar, and he's far from "running" WP. Please. Nor is he anywhere near the nastiest person on WR or WP. If anything, anybody who thinks Lar is "nasty" must be projecting like crazy. Else provide the diffs.

The idea that the people who "run Wikipedia" spend any significant time on WR is REALLY funny. It's a worse conspiracy theory than LaRouche's. (Yes, LEGO is yet another TOOL of British monarchy.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) ).

From Jimbo's view, WR might indeed be filled with "hateful people." Narcissists take all criticism as personal irrational "hated," since they can't possibly admit that there's any good and logical reason that anybody might dislike them. From their point of view, all the people they've stepped on in the process of building their empires, should just get over it and turn the other cheek. And maybe bend over again while they're at it.

However, if you view the world, you'll find that anybody who keeps an enemies list has too many enemies! (Gerald Ford's comment on Nixon). Anybody who runs their own fiefdom by means of having squeezed the Sangers out, is going to have a whole group of people waiting to knife them personally in retaliation, rather like Caesar's senate. (Et tu, Trotsky? I can't understand why you're such a hater, tovarich..).

Jimbo genuinely thinks that his fiddling with BLPs of women he wants to bed, and his sucking of resources from WMF to Wikia where they benefit him, is his kingly due. If anybody dislikes him for it, it must just be because they're jealous, not because he's done anything actually wrong. Look he gave Wikipedia to the world, for free! (And took the tax writeoff). The fact that at the time he was at the losing end of a civil suit for screwing investors in Chicago, should have nothing to do with our judgement of that (or the fact that he headed to Florida like O.J. Simpson). Those are just "haters" up there in Chicago, yes they are. Chicago's filled with them, don't you know. They all have lean and hungry looks.

[Lar]

(Yes, LEGO is yet another TOOL of British monarchy.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) ).

Damn straight. But SHHHHH!!!!!!

• The Brits invented the tech, (Kiddicraft) and then stealthily sold it to the Danes who are just patsies to the imperial ambition. More you say?
• One of the major plastic suppliers is Royal Dutch Shell ... do I have to spell that connection out for you?
• Not only that, but the guy who owns LEGO is Kjeld Kirk Kristiansen... "KKK" ... need I say more?
• Consider this: LEGO has a policy of non violence in their sets... they secretly want to disarm all freedom loving folk everywhere... Want more still?
• Despite the policy, LEGO makes shedfuls of weapons for sets (Star Wars, anyone? Pirates? Castle? Little Green Army Men?) ... this is just mind fuck to twist the kids AND parents... Still not convinced it's all a plot of the monarchy?
• LEGO sold off their LEGOLands recently... to Merlin Entertainment! Hello, King Arthur's ghost. You MUST be getting it by now... but here's the clincher
• The second LEGOLand (after the one outside HQ in Billund...) is right next door to... (wait for it!)... Windsor Castle! And who lives there, I ask you? The Queen! That's who.

QED

(and that's how you manufacture a conspiracy theory)

[Ottava]

Now that's a fine generalization. The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar, and he's far from "running" WP.

SB Johnny has adminiship rights on WP. LessHeard has adminship rights on WP. I could go on.

But we both know that you knew how many Wiki admin there are here and have seen Somey complain about them defending the undefendable here.

So why would you make such claims? It either has to be personal against me, or in defense of Lar. Which is it?


I do love how you criticize my generalizations based on fact when you make laughable claims like: "Jimbo genuinely thinks that his fiddling with BLPs of women he wants to bed".

It might be cute to joke about it, but there is nothing more than a joke. There are hundreds of admin who edit things with serious conflicts of interest, and do you spend your time calling them out? Do you even call out anyone? You seem to defend the Wiki status quo quite often.

Why is that?

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[Lar]

Talking about Uncle Miltie

You seem to defend the Wiki status quo quite often.

Wow, you're *really* clueless, aren't you?

[Milton Roe]

Now that's a fine generalization. The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar, and he's far from "running" WP.

SB Johnny has adminiship rights on WP. LessHeard has adminship rights on WP. I could go on.

Please do, since you're already at the dregs before you've started. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif) SBJohnny and LessHeard are far down in the less-notable power-end of a thousand administrators on WP. The idea that they "run" WP, or really have very much of any impact on WP, is very odd. Find me a few few Sj's or other WMF board members, or longtimers like Gerard, or anybody else who is anybody else at WMF, that post regularly on WR, and you'll make a better case. I know of none; but I can't prove a negative. It's your case to prove or lose.

But we both know that you knew how many Wiki admin there are here and have seen Somey complain about them defending the undefendable here.

I think I've seen that, but it was only with the occasional WP Flavor-Aid guzzler who has had the misfortune to show up on WR and actually try to defend the indefensible. For example, when SlimVirgin/HellFreezes showed up, but she didn't last long. She didn't get kicked out, but she couldn't take the heat in this kitchen, without the use of her magic buttons. After an excruciating look at her mistreatment of Wordbomb and her screwups with Mantanmoreland, she left, never to be seen again. Probably glad that all that didn't get preserved on WP (not that her lackies would have let it stay up). And all this was long after SV lost most of her good standing on WP.

So why would you make such claims? It either has to be personal against me, or in defense of Lar. Which is it?

Umm, I believe I have stopped beating my wife. The idea that you cannot fathom that I might have any other motives here than personal ones, says much about you, Ottava.

I do love how you criticize my generalizations based on fact when you make laughable claims like: "Jimbo genuinely thinks that his fiddling with BLPs of women he wants to bed".

It might be cute to joke about it, but there is nothing more than a joke. There are hundreds of admin who edit things with serious conflicts of interest, and do you spend your time calling them out? Do you even call out anyone? You seem to defend the Wiki status quo quite often.

Why is that?

Why is the sky green with purple stripes? You assume facts not in evidence. I've got about 9,000 posts on WR, at least half of which have to do with WP (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) , and most of THOSE are critical. Not all of them, as I'm not the most rapid critic of WP on WR. Not saying much. My position as regards the goodness/evilness of WP is complicated and not worth repeating here, and certainly not worth repeating to you, to whom it would do no good at all (pearls before swine and all).

I said:

Jimbo genuinely thinks that his fiddling with BLPs of women he wants to bed, and his sucking of resources from WMF to Wikia where they benefit him, is his kingly due.

Since Jimbo has roundly defended both actions, and says he's done nothing wrong, I can only infer the last part. Jimbo has said he's like a rock star, but I don't know of any actual quote where he's compared himself to a King, except by implication, as regards his fascination with the British peerage, and his stated desire to own a castle. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

I'm reading between the lines, there. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[EricBarbour]

You seem to defend the Wiki status quo quite often.

Wow, you're *really* clueless, aren't you?

Whenever Ottava gets into this crap with others, auto-insert image:
(IMG:http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/lapsedlawyer/drooling_homer.gif)

[Ottava]

SBJohnny and LessHeard are far down in the less-notable power-end of a thousand administrators on WP.

There are less than a 1000 active administrators.

Even less with lots of sway, especially cross project. SB Johnny was someone with administrator rights on multiple projects.

And you confuse Foundation people with the people who cause most of the major fundamental problems at Wikipedia. It is a little odd that you do that.

But it seems more likely that your attempts to divert things is more to do with this: "I might have any other motives here than personal ones".

In essence, you are admitting to helping Lar in his bullying to do what? cause drama? Don't you have better things to do?

[Milton Roe]

SBJohnny and LessHeard are far down in the less-notable power-end of a thousand administrators on WP.

There are less than a 1000 active administrators.

The number of administrators on WP is subject to debate. "A thousand" is a perfectly reasonable estimate, and you're just demonstrating more cluelessness in quibbling about whether it's 1,769 or a thousand, or 765 by some necessarily-arbitrary metric (there are 548 more than are "semi-active" which means they've edited at least once in the last 3 months). You've managed to name three people, and it doesn't help your case in the least even if there are 765.

And you confuse Foundation people with the people who cause most of the major fundamental problems at Wikipedia. It is a little odd that you do that.

I know. Very odd. Particularly since your own dealings with "foundation people" have been so fruitful and sweet, and yet you're still abused on WMF projects. Gee, I guess the foundation really is powerless. I should be focused on LessHeard and SBJ and Lar, who between them really run the show. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

The Foundation hardly causes any problems on WMF. They're a force for good! Unfortunately, the bad admins Who Hate Ottava have taken over the server rooms, and locked themselves inside. With lots of water bottles and demands.

But it seems more likely that your attempts to divert things is more to do with this: "I might have any other motives here than personal ones".

In essence, you are admitting to helping Lar in his bullying to do what? cause drama? Don't you have better things to do?

I admit nothing. I don't know Lar personally, but I observe that I've never seen Lar bully anybody. Show me the diffs or shut up. If Lar bullys people on WP, using his admin Powerz, I personally will be just as glad to ridicule him for that on WR as much as I do any other abusive admin.

So let's have at it. You provide the evidence of Lar's nastiness, and I'll write the parody songs. I warn you, however, that I already know about YOUR nastiness, so I think there's a good chance that you'll merely get yourself deeper into the low opinion I already have of you.

Say, couldn't you and Kwork go get yourself a subforum?

[Abd]

I find it ironic that Jimbo once told me that Wikipedia Review is filled with hateful people. It is ironic because the nastiest, most vile people here are the ones who run Wikipedia and use this as just another platform to bully and abuse others.

Well, maybe. Sometimes. Difficult call. What Jimbo said was true, but there are all kinds of people here, just like there are all kinds of people on Wikipedia.

Here, the Wikipedia bullies can't force others off the island. No, the only way to get forced off this island, or restricted here, is to manage some combination of bullying others and boring them.

Usually, the conversation here is more real than on the wikis, where community rules are far more restrictive. As I've written many times, this is like the local bar.

Whatcha got, non-alcoholic, please? I don't know what Ottava is drinking, but definitely don't want any of it for myself.

This post has been edited by Abd:

[Ottava]

I know. Very odd. Particularly since your own dealings with "foundation people" have been so fruitful and sweet, and yet you're still abused on WMF projects. Gee, I guess the foundation really is powerless.

Though you are being sarcastic, I think Jimbo's attempt to remove porn from Commons or Sue Gardner's lack of action regarding pedophiles are two examples of the WMF's lack of control over the projects.

By the way, there are a lot of admin that posted here to defend Wikipedia and were criticized. Remember Nerd? Coffee? Juliancolton? NuclearWarfare? Many of the Arbitrators had hidden or blatant identities too. Forget MZMcBride? FT2?

Are you in denial? I mean, gesh. The list is huge.

Hell, SlimVirgin and Durova both came in here with blatant names and fake names. Half the people in the IRC rooms have names here.


Somey, Gomi, Hersch, you've all criticized those admin who come here defending some of the worst practices. How can he pretend they don't exist?


And Milton, on Lar's bullying you only need to look at this and the talk page for many examples.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[thekohser]

The fact that at the time he was at the losing end of a civil suit for screwing investors in Chicago, should have nothing to do with our judgement of that...

I wish you'd spell "judgment" correctly. But more importantly, you're committing an act of libel here, Milty. The civil suit wasn't about "screwing investors", but more about "screwing an employee promised an equity stake in the company". And, that was a suit that did not mention Jimmy Wales at all.

[lilburne]

(and that's how you manufacture a conspiracy theory)

What is even worse is I write the manufacturing software for them.

[Milton Roe]

The fact that at the time he was at the losing end of a civil suit for screwing investors in Chicago, should have nothing to do with our judgement of that...

I wish you'd spell "judgment" correctly. But more importantly, you're committing an act of libel here, Milty. The civil suit wasn't about "screwing investors", but more about "screwing an employee promised an equity stake in the company". And, that was a suit that did not mention Jimmy Wales at all.

Screwing a sweat-investor, then. It was a company that Jimbo co-owned, was it not? No need to mention him by name.

[Zoloft]

<snip rabid foaming>... on Lar's bullying you only need to look at this and the talk page for many examples.

"Even though there has been some problematic disputes between Lar and myself in the past, he has always shown that he is highly competent and a valuable asset as a Steward. Ottava Rima 01:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)"

Damning.

This post has been edited by Zoloft:

[Milton Roe]

<snip rabid foaming>... on Lar's bullying you only need to look at this and the talk page for many examples.

"Even though there has been some problematic disputes between Lar and myself in the past, he has always shown that he is highly competent and a valuable asset as a Steward. Ottava Rima 01:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)"

Damning.

I suppose Ottava forgot that, or hoped I wouldn't see that. You beat me to mentioning it, but I did see it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

All in all, there's still no evidence of bullying there. No indef blocking people, or even temporarily blocking people, because you don't like what they're doing POV-wise or procedure-wise. No threatening to do same. It's pretty boring, like watching Carcharoth. When are you going to tear that sucker's spine out, C.? He never does.

Most of that Lar vote page rehashes an episode a year ago in which Lar (and many other admins before him) deleted a bunch of unsourced BLPs. Causing severe butthurt for the people who had let these BLPs sit there for years without any sources, but couldn't stand to see them go. Alas, Lar, as a Steward, was UNBULLYABLE. Some people probably would have liked to block him for out of process deletion, or vandalism, or somehow hurting the project, but nobody had the power. So, they took him to Arbcomm. Which refused to sanction any of the deleting editors (including Lar), and said, basically, that unsourced BLPs are a mess and there is no "process" for getting rid of them that anybody agrees with, and it's been that way for years. So more butthurt, as now people were going around saying ArbComm wasn't following procedure, when actually ArbComm, as the Supreme Court of WP, is what defines acceptable procedure.

Today, a year later, the BLP problem is not only not fixed, but I can find no evidence that it's much better. And that's after a long time of trying to get the communiteh involved with little tabs when you log on. "Wanna see a random unsourced BLP, Bub? Only $5 of your time..."

It appears to me that the deletionists a year go were right. Doing things in an orderly process-driven way, has never worked on BLPs. It is not working NOW on BLPs. I would predict, it will NEVER work on BLPs. Prove me wrong.

Ottava, you owe me diffs and didn't provide them. All you did was embarrass yourself, as predicted.

[SB_Johnny]

Ottava, you owe me diffs and didn't provide them. All you did was embarrass yourself, as predicted.

Drum roll, please...

[Ottava]

<snip rabid foaming>... on Lar's bullying you only need to look at this and the talk page for many examples.

"Even though there has been some problematic disputes between Lar and myself in the past, he has always shown that he is highly competent and a valuable asset as a Steward. Ottava Rima 01:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)"

Damning.

I suppose Ottava forgot that, or hoped I wouldn't see that. You beat me to mentioning it, but I did see it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

You mean forgot that I took the high road?

Milton, as you can see, -I- acted like a gentleman where Lar never has. I linked to them so you could see that there were dozens of people pointing out problems and not one was me. That keeps you from being able to claim I am some how biased, or was biased, or any such nonsense.

It is laughable that you still act that way when you have no footing left.

Most of that Lar vote page rehashes an episode a year ago in which Lar (and many other admins before him) deleted a bunch of unsourced BLPs.

Charming how you ignore that it wasn't just the action but the way he made the actions, which was highly inflammatory, nasty, and abusive of others. I also find it interesting that you ignore that many of the people who have been on the correct side of the BLP dispute are ones against Lar in that matter. Your white washing only makes you look worse, not Lar better.



I also find it interesting how Zoloft claims -I- am foaming without evidence, as if some baseless declaration is a substitution for fact. That is the same problematic behavior that MuZemike pointed out as wrong with Lar on Meta. Many others have pointed that out over the past few years.

[SB_Johnny]

Milton, as you can see, -I- acted like a gentleman where Lar never has.

Ottava, you're not a gentleman. Gentlemen respect their fellows, and treat their ladies well. You treat your fellows like shit, and have probably never been on a real date with a real lady.

Oh, and Abd has buttons now, and you can't do anything about it. Neener neener.

[Ottava]

Milton, as you can see, -I- acted like a gentleman where Lar never has.

Ottava, you're not a gentleman. Gentlemen respect their fellows, and treat their ladies well. You treat your fellows like shit, and have probably never been on a real date with a real lady.

Oh, and Abd has buttons now, and you can't do anything about it. Neener neener.

Odd how you say that, and yet I have quite a loyal following on Wiki. You have no proof to your smears, and it is interesting how you make up some fantasy about my love life that you wouldn't have any proof of.

There are quite a few people here at WR who are my facebook and real life friends, and they can verify such details about me if necessary. But it is obvious that you are just trolling. After all, your life became a failure 30 years ago and you've had a grudge against the world ever since.


P.S. once the policy becomes official, as it has 3 blatant supports and 2 that are there but not moved into tthe section yet, and 5 more regulars who will be supporting it, Abd wont have ops as mentorship by Administrator fiat will no longer exist. You will also be put up to a vote for your actions in response to it all. At that point, I'll have 11 people. How many on Wikiversity do you have to back you? Perhaps Jtneill, Adb, and Adambro. Doesn't seem like you will make 50%.

When will you get the clue that Wikiversity doesn't want you? You don't actually add any content anymore. You attacked all of the major contributors there. JWS and Moulton think that you've been a consistent damage to anything educational. Can you honestly claim anything that you've done has helped the community? I haven't seen one person able to put up any evidence of it.

Come on, name 5 pieces of educational content that you have added in the past year. It is an educational site, after all.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[Zoloft]

For the benefit of the es-steamed Ottava, rabid foaming was not a claim, but a description.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Abd]

Milton, as you can see, -I- acted like a gentleman where Lar never has.

Ottava, you're not a gentleman. Gentlemen respect their fellows, and treat their ladies well. You treat your fellows like shit, and have probably never been on a real date with a real lady.

Oh, and Abd has buttons now, and you can't do anything about it. Neener neener.

Now, kids, be nice.

Weird WMF behavior, across all the wikis, I think. I can't log in to Abd. "Login successful" but then I'm not logged in. I have a declared sock account on Wikipedia, I was able to log into it.

Now I'm getting the "technical difficulties" message or the like on all WMF wikis. Last login screen I saw said some users were having difficulties, suggested clearing all WMF wiki cookies. But, now, no login screens.

That's some bad mojo Ottava has. Light up the sage.

[SB_Johnny]

After all, your life became a failure 30 years ago and you've had a grudge against the world ever since.

Yup, I remember the day clearly. My stretch armstrong doll broke because I pulled one of the arms a bit to hard. It's been downhill since then, more or less.

blah, blah, blah

I miss my pool-playing days. We used to beat up people like you.

[Abd]

Milton, as you can see, -I- acted like a gentleman where Lar never has.

Ottava, you're not a gentleman. Gentlemen respect their fellows, and treat their ladies well. You treat your fellows like shit, and have probably never been on a real date with a real lady.

Oh, and Abd has buttons now, and you can't do anything about it. Neener neener.

We should be grateful, on behalf of children, about the lack of lady business.

This edit speaks volumes. I'm sorry for any kid who falls into his power. And some have. They are trying to use Wikiversity. Prior treatment was to promptly delete whatever they wrote.

And then this, the lower part.

I haven't determined the scope of the set of current "nonsense" posters yet. But most of it is harmless, so I started up the Playspace project. The greatest difficulty is setting up communication with these kids. I may need to block an IP, but that's going to be tricky, because it's the IP of a public school.

I don't mind being patient with them.

In that second edit linked above, Ottava wrote:

Abd was assuming that he could raise children to become adults. Our place is to prevent vandalism, off topic pages, and the rest, and Abd's attitude only increases it.

Funny I'd assume that, eh? I raised five kids to become adults, they have children of their own, now, some of whom are almost old enough to have children themselves.

By moving the pages into a Playspace, none of them are "off-topic." The kids are learning wiki markup, maybe learning about the rules of Wikiversity, learning to write a story, and having fun. Hey, if Wikiversity can handle Moulton or me, it can handle some real kids.

I have no idea if I'll succeed with the present Playspace activity, but I'm sure the concept is sound. Wikiversity wasn't supposed to be just for adults. But kids will be kids. And Delete and Block, punishment, is not exactly the way to turn them into productive members of a learning community.

The only real difficulty with the current pages is that one kid, in particular, seems to be dead-set on using his real name. Wikiversity has a privacy policy that would require parental permission for this, and the kid isn't using an account. Several accounts have been created for this group, but they don't seem to persist in using them, almost all edits are IP. But I'm nowhere near burning out on it.

The Playspace is also a place for some of the really wacky physics pages we get.

Ottava would definitely have deleted Jabberwocky, brillig as it was.

[Abd]

After all, your life became a failure 30 years ago and you've had a grudge against the world ever since.

Yup, I remember the day clearly. My stretch armstrong doll broke because I pulled one of the arms a bit to hard. It's been downhill since then, more or less.

blah, blah, blah

I miss my pool-playing days. We used to beat up people like you.

The thing is, he's a bully. Weird.

He got this idea that if he makes crazy threats, people will just slink off. It might have worked once, maybe twenty years ago, and then occasionally people back off, just not wanting to get close to someone so insane. But he's not fooling anyone. Ah, Guido showed up. Kohs, would he listen to you? He's a little confused here.

[SB_Johnny]

After all, your life became a failure 30 years ago and you've had a grudge against the world ever since.

Yup, I remember the day clearly. My stretch armstrong doll broke because I pulled one of the arms a bit to hard. It's been downhill since then, more or less.

blah, blah, blah

I miss my pool-playing days. We used to beat up people like you.

The thing is, he's a bully. Weird.

Righto. Why would you beat someone up if they weren't trying to be a bully?

[Ottava]

After all, your life became a failure 30 years ago and you've had a grudge against the world ever since.

Yup, I remember the day clearly. My stretch armstrong doll broke because I pulled one of the arms a bit to hard. It's been downhill since then, more or less.

blah, blah, blah

I miss my pool-playing days. We used to beat up people like you.

Actually, it would be quite the opposite. After all, your jealousy, nasty attitude, inability to do anything means that as a kid, you were probably the most pathetic little whelp out there. Never able to get ahead in school, not athlete, and probably a face full of zits. It would explain why you cling to the internet to spread hate.

You are like all the other Wiki Myspacers, no reason to be here except to lash out at a the world. At least you didn't shoot a Congressperson, but I wouldn't put such horrible things past a person like you who has utter contempt for humanity.

[SB_Johnny]

Actually, it would be quite the opposite. After all, your jealousy, nasty attitude, inability to do anything means that as a kid, you were probably the most pathetic little whelp out there. Never able to get ahead in school, not athlete, and probably a face full of zits. It would explain why you cling to the internet to spread hate.

Wow, you very nearly just described the complete opposite of what I was like in school! Amazing!

Can you juggle too? How about chewing gum while walking? Or showering naked with the lights on?

[Abd]

Actually, it would be quite the opposite. After all, your jealousy, nasty attitude, inability to do anything means that as a kid, you were probably the most pathetic little whelp out there. Never able to get ahead in school, not athlete, and probably a face full of zits. It would explain why you cling to the internet to spread hate.

You are like all the other Wiki Myspacers, no reason to be here except to lash out at a the world. At least you didn't shoot a Congressperson, but I wouldn't put such horrible things past a person like you who has utter contempt for humanity.

Ottava, of course, being such a fine person, has lots of friends.

I noticed for example, on Facebook, on the Free Ottava 2010 Campaign that Ottava Rima added Jeff Peters as a friend.

The "profile pictures" of Mr. Peters are fascinating. I wonder about the sunken eyes. Or is that eye liner?

[Ottava]

Ottava, of course, being such a fine person, has lots of friends.

I noticed for example, on Facebook, on the Free Ottava 2010 Campaign that Ottava Rima added Jeff Peters as a friend.

The "profile pictures" of Mr. Peters are fascinating. I wonder about the sunken eyes. Or is that eye liner?

It is a blue tinted image as part of a series of messing with color that was part of an old joke. If you paid attention, the Ottava Rima webpage is a joke that is used in my Wikipedia Review signature line. The current image that Wiki people like is my "vampire" image as Lara/Jennavecia put it.

Wow, you very nearly just described the complete opposite of what I was like in school! Amazing!

Mhmm, surrrreee.

You still haven't listed any of the five educational resources you worked on Wikiversity in the past year.

Have you done anything but cause drama? Looking through your contribs definitely says no. Why is it that you are on a website devoted to producing educational material and you have done nothing but use ops to harass users and wage war while producing nothing?

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[Abd]

Have you done anything but cause drama? Looking through your contribs definitely says no. Why is it that you are on a website devoted to producing educational material and you have done nothing but use ops to harass users and wage war while producing nothing?

A few weeks ago, Ottava was trying to get his pages deleted....

I'm trying to remember a single incident of SBJ harassing anyone. There was something years ago where he got annoyed with JWS, something that was thoroughly understandable. He wrote a bad word. No harassment.

SBJ resolved drama, supported by the community. Ottava was utterly rejected by the community, and when he was being desysopped, he unblocked Moulton, probably thinking that this would truly wreck the place. Remember, Ottava's image of himself was that he was the guardian/king of Wikiversity, holding back the forces of evil from destroying the place. I.e., preventing the WMF and his frien' Jimbo from shutting it down.

What's utterly disgusting is that Ottava, presenting himself as a moral force, has lied, over and over. He lies so blatantly that an alternate explanation is that he's truly insane.

There are people who lie in situations where the lie is easily uncovered. Ottava lies about what's in policy, he'll link to the policy and then say the exact opposite of what's in it.

But some of these people are callous manipulators, they know that people often won't follow the link, and a liar often only has to convince a few people to keep going.

[Ottava]

Abd, you need to stop fantasizing so much.

1. "A few weeks ago, Ottava was trying to get his pages deleted...."

And that means what regarding SB Johnny's lack of working on educational material? I doesn't mean anything. I actually had stuff that could be deleted.

2. "I'm trying to remember a single incident of SBJ harassing anyone. "

And that would make you a unique individual.

3. "SBJ resolved drama, supported by the community."

He wasn't backed up when he wheel warred against Jimbo. As for any other action, he had to canvass to get any support.

4. "Ottava was utterly rejected by the community, and when he was being desysopped"

By "community" you mean only 4 users who could be seen as established members of the community voted against me in a canvassed vote that lacked any discussion and even though there was a unanimous proposal to terminate the whole process as not allowing real consensus it was closed after 3 days. 3 days, when the Custodian page says at least 7.

It is really hard for you to justify that as anything proper.

5. "he unblocked Moulton, probably thinking that this would truly wreck the place. "

Why would I think someone who use to be my best friend would wreck the place? I was at Wikiversity because of Moulton. I unblocked him because he knew exactly how your claims about Cold Fusion were full of crap and he was able to point that out without giving you the same old "it is the evil cabal out to get me" defense you normally pull when people call you out for your nonsense.

6. "Remember, Ottava's image of himself was that he was the guardian/king of Wikiversity, "

For some reason, Abd thinks an "organizer" is "guardian/king". I was the one meeting and recruiting new people in addition to doing all the patrolling. I didn't ask for that, and no one has taken that up after me. Right now, Stewards have been doing a lot of the patrolling and it would be good to have Wikiversity under the Global Sysops so someone will be using admin rights for what they are supposed to be used for.

7. "What's utterly disgusting is that Ottava, presenting himself as a moral force, has lied, over and over. He lies so blatantly that an alternate explanation is that he's truly insane."

Moulton has pointed out how all of your stuff on Cold Fusion is lies after lies. If you honestly think what you say is true then you live in a fantasy world. I find it odd that you claim I lie about policy when all you do is make up policies, declare them true one moment then not true the next to whatever suits you.


Is it coincidence that you have more edits to the drama areas than I do even though I've been on Wikiversity twice as long as you have? My 725 and 160 edits to your 846 and 190 edits, with many of my edits being archiving or standard maintenance.

Of my 119 blocks you could only find one that was semi-controversial and of my 922 deletions only one that could be seen as controversial.


But yes, I'm the problem. I caused you to have irrational claims about Cold Fusion. I caused you to be abusive and wage war against actual scientists on Wikipedia while you pushed a crazy fringe theory. I cause you to rant and rampage all over Wikiversity while pushing crazy notions of what you wish reality was.


You are an old man who amounted to nothing. You have a crazy POV and you came to Wikipedia to push it. The only difference between you and all the other nuts is that you were removed. Your claims about me are pure fantasy. People think they can throw up stuff without proof, but it only takes someone to actually look a the facts to see through it.

[Detective]

The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar

What about New York Brad, easily the most influential person on ArbCom? And what of Alison, a Checkuser (which Lar isn't) and a vastly more prolific contributor?

[Ottava]

The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar

What about New York Brad, easily the most influential person on ArbCom? And what of Alison, a Checkuser (which Lar isn't) and a vastly more prolific contributor?

Indeed.

There are also three Arbs that were until recently very active on other names. MZMcBride can verify that the one we both know irl hasn't been active (probably since the election) but was.

Iridescent and Xeno are the only ones most consistently in opposition to matters. Alison is not active enough but I would rank her up there. Then there are those like NuclearWarfare that I think is doing good but I know many here would disagree.

But really, how did he forget Pedro/Nerd? Or all the others?

[Abd]

Mmmm.... two new Wikiversity users show up to !vote for Ottava's change to custodianship policy. One is Kevin Rutherford, whose only prior edit to Wikiversity was to oppose Ottava's desysopping. Curious, I searched for Keven and Ottava, and found google cache of Ottava Rima Facebook page. Kevin Rutherford. But it's obviously been removed very recently. Someone is attempting to cover up the connection, I'd say, since it's unlikely that Kevin has actually dissed Ottava or the reverse.

Ottava is desperate.

Guido den Broeder seems a bit dim sometimes. Does he realize that Ottava tried to get Jimbo to come down again when Wikiversity was unblocking Thekohser? (I just documented this on the discussion page of Ottava's custodianship proposal. I welcomed Guido to Wikiversity, but he was hostile. I'd pointed out on meta that he was being disruptive, and that this was unnecessary to gain what was under dispute: Thekohser's listing on the Speakers page, which stands because of my effort there, I'd say.

I'm suspecting that Guido is holding a grudge. Sad.

[Lar]

The "profile pictures" of Mr. Peters are fascinating. I wonder about the sunken eyes. Or is that eye liner?

Making fun of people for their appearance really isn't helpful. It doesn't matter how annoying of a person they are, it's still not helpful. We have too much of that around here as it is, don't you start too.

[Abd]

The "profile pictures" of Mr. Peters are fascinating. I wonder about the sunken eyes. Or is that eye liner?

Making fun of people for their appearance really isn't helpful. It doesn't matter how annoying of a person they are, it's still not helpful. We have too much of that around here as it is, don't you start too.

My apologies. However, those were real questions. "Fascinating" isn't exactly making fun. In fact, Ottava explained that the picture was a joke. It may indeed have been eye liner. So?

I appreciate your effort to keep it civil, Lar.

Meanwhile, just to stuff it somewhere, here is the comment of Kevin Rutherford trying to overturn Ottava's ban on Wikipedia. That was just last month. Kevin is a very active Wikipedian, probably lives a short distance from my house. Maybe we can sponsor a meetup in the Amherst area. That might be interesting, eh?

[SB_Johnny]

Meanwhile, just to stuff it somewhere, here is the comment of Kevin Rutherford trying to overturn Ottava's ban on Wikipedia. That was just last month.

Speaking of which, isn't tomorrow (Jan 15) the big "appeal day"?

[thekohser]

It was a company that Jimbo co-owned, was it not?

It was not.

[Ottava]

Mmmm.... two new Wikiversity users show up to !vote for Ottava's change to custodianship policy. One is Kevin Rutherford, whose only prior edit to Wikiversity was to oppose Ottava's desysopping. Curious, I searched for Keven and Ottava, and found google cache of Ottava Rima Facebook page. Kevin Rutherford. But it's obviously been removed very recently. Someone is attempting to cover up the connection, I'd say, since it's unlikely that Kevin has actually dissed Ottava or the reverse.

Ottava is desperate.

Guido den Broeder seems a bit dim sometimes. Does he realize that Ottava tried to get Jimbo to come down again when Wikiversity was unblocking Thekohser? (I just documented this on the discussion page of Ottava's custodianship proposal. I welcomed Guido to Wikiversity, but he was hostile. I'd pointed out on meta that he was being disruptive, and that this was unnecessary to gain what was under dispute: Thekohser's listing on the Speakers page, which stands because of my effort there, I'd say.

I'm suspecting that Guido is holding a grudge. Sad.

Kevin is a WR user but I wont reveal his name here. Most people who joined the Ottava Rima friends list were WR users. Even you tried to join, I believe. I don't remember if I put up open friends or not, but I only accessed the name twice.

Guido is also a WR user. When you canvassed on WR, not everyone going will suddenly be those agreeing with you. Many WR users have jumped to have me unbanned, just as I have jumped to get many WR users unbanned.

Look at Thekohser - I defended him quite regularly at Meta and defended having him and those like him on the speaker list. I only opposed unblocking because of the locking, but before that I defended him on Meta and elsewhere. Once Sue Gardner said that the Foundation didn't care about the locks (and wouldn't interfere if we unblocked) then I had no problem with it or with Moulton. I also have no problem if Proab was unblocked at Wikiversity or many of the other locked users who were locked mostly because they came from here and were trying to fight against what they saw as corruption. You should see how many times I defended PrivateMusing on multiple projects from being blocked, and how he has done the same for me.

Defending people from being blocked, banned, or the rest does not mean you like them. It means that you sympathise with them against a systematic corruption. I fought for both the unban of PeterDamian and against a ban on DougsTech. Neither have done anything positive toward me, and Peter had a long history of saying my content work sucks. Does that mean either deserved to be cast out by a mob? No. Unlike most of the people in power, or who want to have power, the people I listed were always outcasts from the beginning and treated like crap. Most of them just wanted to be treated like everyone else, like human beings.

There are only a few people who I will never stand for, and they were those who crossed the line in a very highly inappropriate way. Look at Unitanode, who had many socks and was using those socks as part of political revenge against others. Even though he was violating multiple policies, he was protected for who knows why.

But then you look at Lar, and even though I fought to make sure he was removed as a Steward I did keep that confirmation page cleaned because it did not need to boil down into nasty, hateful fighting. Defanging the beast is enough. There are some people who merely need to be removed from power so they are forced to treat others like human beings, and there are others who need to be put down because they are unable to do so.

With the way you ramble, make up things, have a 100% biased view that is unwavering, I would see you as leaning towards the wrong side, Abd. Moulton pointed out major flaws in your position and you cling to that fringe view anyway. I have bent over backwards to help those who I don't agree with, have compromised a lot with people, and I don't collect pages filled with vendetta notes or the rest like you do.


I am Catholic. I am Conservative. I am a Republican political operative. I don't believe the hype about Global Warming. Guess what? I get along with William Connolley, Dave Souza, and the others. I have a religious and scientific background, yet I was able to work with Raul et al when it came to the BLPs dealing with the supposed "scientific dissent against Darwin". I have the opposite views of Slim Virgin and Durova yet I am still friends with them. I definitely don't have the same views about homosexuality that Cary Bass and many others have, but I am still friends with them.

If you look at the RfC on Mattisse, I was the only one who said something positive about Mattisse even though Mattisse spent a year hounding me and causing me problems when it came to articles. When Newyorkbrad wanted to ban Mattisse for 60 days I protested against it and said I would stop working on anything for 60 days because there has to be a better system then just casting out people willing to work to improve the encyclopedia.


You don't do that for people who you consider "enemies". You don't recognize their humanity. To you, they are some kind of demon, some kind of boogieman, and you think those awful people are the sole reason why your opinions aren't dominant instead of realizing that your fringe views are wrong.

Humans don't deserve to be hounded. Humans don't deserve to be treated like shit and thrown to the side. It doesn't matter if you disagree with them, and it is an even greater responsibility to protect those you disagree with.

Even if you do feel that someone is a threat to you, an enemy of yours, or represents everything you don't, that does not mean you act that way towards them. Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin were mortal enemies who lived as opposites. There was nothing that they could get along on and they bitterly fought. However, they were able to respect their enemy as their equal, and they knew when there was a greater enemy who would ignore the rules of honor or fairness: Oda Nobunaga. They are both remembered in Japan as the last true Samurai lords as gun based combat replaced the traditional forms.

Of course, both lords failed to defeat Oda Nobunaga as they clung to a system of honor and dignity. But it is not in success that you prove who you are.

[A Horse With No Name]

But then you look at Lar...

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

[thekohser]

Look at Thekohser - I defended him quite regularly at Meta and defended having him and those like him on the speaker list. I only opposed unblocking because of the locking, but before that I defended him on Meta and elsewhere. Once Sue Gardner said that the Foundation didn't care about the locks (and wouldn't interfere if we unblocked) then I had no problem with it...

Proving you are a stool pigeon for ridiculous process wonkery and for Sue Gardner.

With friends like you, Ottava... who needs enemies?

[Ottava]

Look at Thekohser - I defended him quite regularly at Meta and defended having him and those like him on the speaker list. I only opposed unblocking because of the locking, but before that I defended him on Meta and elsewhere. Once Sue Gardner said that the Foundation didn't care about the locks (and wouldn't interfere if we unblocked) then I had no problem with it...

Proving you are a stool pigeon for ridiculous process wonkery and for Sue Gardner.

With friends like you, Ottava... who needs enemies?

My point was that we aren't friends. We never were friends. You criticize me all the time and I don't remember any instance you've ever said something nice about me.

But that doesn't stop me from wanting to do everything -within- process to ensure that you are able to operate. I will make sure that the process is followed for order's sake and also for Wikiversity's sake because the Foundation is always there and always able to step on us.

If that makes me a stool pigeon, fine, so be it. That wont change my continue to strive to work within the system to fix the problems, and it is probably one of the nicer ways you've ever described me.

[Milton Roe]

The only person on WR who has any powerz to speak of on WP, is Lar

What about New York Brad, easily the most influential person on ArbCom? And what of Alison, a Checkuser (which Lar isn't) and a vastly more prolific contributor?

NYB has been here 3 years and contributed 610 posts in that time-- about 4 per week. And not strongly opinionated ones. It's rather difficult to say what he stands for or against, except that he's unhappy about WP's BLP policy (as are we all). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

Alison's a more interesting case, but she's been scarce around WR lately, and I took her at her word that the same is true of WP. Somebody recently said she's been doing WP cleanup work, again, probably addictively. Alison has been more politically outspoken by far on WR, but on the other hand, she's not really a big influence on WP. Catching socks is politically rather neutral, actually (since there are good ones and evil ones). Allison's role on WP is more the politically neutral cop, than policy-maker or policitician (albeit one of those cops you almost don't mind getting a ticket from, if you know what I mean).

While I'm writing about this, I have to address Ottava's rather bizarre claims about Jimbo and Sue and what they do or don't do to fix problems at WMF. WMF, again, is run legally by the WMF board. Sue's not on the board-- like the CEO in any decent corporation, she's a paid employee who serves at the board's pleasure, to do their bidding. As soon as she fails to do that, presumably she's one board vote away from being out the door with whatever severance package she's managed to negociate. Jimbo is on the board, but he's only one vote of it. If he and the board ever have a major disagreement, about all Jimbo can do is threaten to take his face and go home, so that WMF won't get as many donations next year. Since the board serves without salary, that may not be as big a stick as it looks like. I think Sue is probably more afraid of it than anybody, since it should be obvious that if WMF only takes in half the money NEXT year, that somebody will think about outsourcing much of Sue's job to the new India office, and splitting the rest of the US component among people who make a lot less Rupee equivalents. If Godwin's job can be "contracted out" then who's next?

Anyway, the WMF board is obviously not concerned with defamation or porn or vandalism and quality gridlock, or else they would have done something about them, and they haven't. Whether Sue or Jimbo care about these things we cannot know. Their public puffery along those lines means exactly nothing.

[SB_Johnny]

If that makes me a stool pigeon, fine, so be it. That wont change my continue to strive to work within the system to fix the problems, and it is probably one of the nicer ways you've ever described me.

Well, at least in the case of the topic at hand (Abd, buttons, etc.), you seem to be trying to circumvent process by running to meta. Which won't work, of course, but belies your glowing review of your selfless and virtuous approach.

[Guido den Broeder]

Guido den Broeder seems a bit dim sometimes. Does he realize that Ottava tried to get Jimbo to come down again when Wikiversity was unblocking Thekohser? (I just documented this on the discussion page of Ottava's custodianship proposal. I welcomed Guido to Wikiversity, but he was hostile. I'd pointed out on meta that he was being disruptive, and that this was unnecessary to gain what was under dispute: Thekohser's listing on the Speakers page, which stands because of my effort there, I'd say.

I'm suspecting that Guido is holding a grudge. Sad.

Who needs Wikipedia if you can have the same kind of shit at WR just as easily? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif)

[Guido den Broeder]

Guido is also a WR user. When you canvassed on WR, not everyone going will suddenly be those agreeing with you. Many WR users have jumped to have me unbanned, just as I have jumped to get many WR users unbanned.

Actually, I hadn't seen this thread at all. I had been checking in at Wikiversity from time to time to see of any progress is being made and found the place on fire.

[Guido den Broeder]

Abd then volunteered to bring that fire to my talk page.

[SB_Johnny]

Abd then volunteered to bring that fire to my talk page.

Thoughtful of him, wasn't it? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Guido den Broeder]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[SB_Johnny]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Heh, better than being snowed in. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

[Milton Roe]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Well, keep your finger in that dyke. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Who lives in a pineapple under the sea? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[SB_Johnny]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Who lives in a pineapple under the sea? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Gah, I'm showing my age. First thing that came to mind for me was the Octopus's Garden.

And Horsey: finger, dyke, and no comment? You're losing your edge! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Abd]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Heh, better than being snowed in. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Nah, I'll take the snow. Here, it's under two feet, it's cold as hell right now, but hey, I have an electric throw, and an AWD Subaru. Life is good.

[thekohser]

...it is probably one of the nicer ways you've ever described me.

You're welcome, Ottava.

[Ottava]

...it is probably one of the nicer ways you've ever described me.

You're welcome, Ottava.

<3

[A Horse With No Name]

And Horsey: finger, dyke, and no comment? You're losing your edge! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

I already did a dyke joke some months ago -- I am on the prowl for fresh material! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Detective]

NYB ... Alison

Aha! The old Ottava trick! Any facts that disprove your contentions mut be dismissed as irrelevant.

But what about Iridescent, clearly a major force on WP and a substantial contributor to WR?

I am on the prowl

A horse on the prowl? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif) You know, Mr Horse, I'm beginning to suspect you're not really a horse.

[A Horse With No Name]

A horse on the prowl? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif) You know, Mr Horse, I'm beginning to suspect you're not really a horse.

Eh, phooey! You're no detective! Why, you couldn't even catch a cold...let alone bring down Bonnie & Clyde:

[CharlotteWebb]

I live 6 meters under sea level, so it did't take. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Forgive me for allowing Katrina to loom freshly in my mind, but I wouldn't. Not for free rent, even.

[Ottava]

NYB ... Alison

Aha! The old Ottava trick! Any facts that disprove your contentions mut be dismissed as irrelevant.

But what about Iridescent, clearly a major force on WP and a substantial contributor to WR?

Um, what? I said that the place is filled with people who are running Wikipedia and many of them defend the status quo.

Having one person who has about a 60% rate of not defending the status quo, and who hasn't really been active since joining ArbCom, doesn't even come close to proving my statement wrong or even has anything to do with it.

Your claim is basically the equivalent of "the sky isn't blue as you claim because grass is green".

[SB_Johnny]

NYB ... Alison

Aha! The old Ottava trick! Any facts that disprove your contentions mut be dismissed as irrelevant.

But what about Iridescent, clearly a major force on WP and a substantial contributor to WR?

Um, what? I said that the place is filled with people who are running Wikipedia and many of them defend the status quo.

That one went right over your head. It wasn't actually directed at you, but that also went over your head. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Having one person who has about a 60% rate of not defending the status quo, and who hasn't really been active since joining ArbCom, doesn't even come close to proving my statement wrong or even has anything to do with it.

99% of statistics cited by Ottava have a margin of error or 99%. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Your claim is basically the equivalent of "the sky isn't blue as you claim because grass is green".

Jeffrey! Stop navel gazing! Self reflection is probably a dangerous endeavor for you, sweetie... we like you just the way you are! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)

[CharlotteWebb]

Jeffrey! Stop navel gazing! Self reflection is probably a dangerous endeavor for you, sweetie... we like you just the way you are! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)

And being the superstitious sort, he'll also suffer seven years' bad luck.

[Milton Roe]

Jeffrey! Stop navel gazing! Self reflection is probably a dangerous endeavor for you, sweetie... we like you just the way you are! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)

And being the superstitious sort, he'll also suffer seven years' bad luck.

Plus it requires looking near his peepee, which leadeth on to mortal temptation.

[Ottava]

That one went right over your head. It wasn't actually directed at you, but that also went over your head. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

B.S. More making things up.

Nice try though.

You admit how pathetic you are by the way you have to stoop so low.

[Detective]

That one went right over your head. It wasn't actually directed at you, but that also went over your head. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

B.S. More making things up.

Nice try though.

You admit how pathetic you are by the way you have to stoop so low.

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

I should have added LessHeard to the list, but I hadn't heard him before. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Detective]

Bonnie & Clyde:

Hmm ... I had you pegged as more a Bonnie Langford fan.

[SB_Johnny]

That one went right over your head. It wasn't actually directed at you, but that also went over your head. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

B.S. More making things up.

Nice try though.

You admit how pathetic you are by the way you have to stoop so low.

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

Classic. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

Hmm ... I had you pegged as more a Bonnie Langford fan.

Bonnie who? Never heard of her. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

Milton is pretending to be Lar? Wow...I wonder if he could fool Mrs. Lar with his impersonation! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Milton Roe]

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

Milton is pretending to be Lar? Wow...I wonder if he could fool Mrs. Lar with his impersonation! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

Not a chance. Even online I'm guessing I'd get about one paraphraph out before Mrs. Lar said "Wait, you're too spicy and hip to be my husband. Whoever you are, you are one. happenin. dude. But not Lar." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

That's what she'd say. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

[Shalom]

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

Milton is pretending to be Lar? Wow...I wonder if he could fool Mrs. Lar with his impersonation! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

Not a chance. Even online I'm guessing I'd get about one paraphraph out before Mrs. Lar said "Wait, you're too spicy and hip to be my husband. Whoever you are, you are one. happenin. dude. But not Lar." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

That's what she'd say. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

Abd you are a loser.

[Lar]

It is pretty obvious that I was criticising Milton for pretending that apart from Lar there is nobody influential on WP who posts here.

Milton is pretending to be Lar? Wow...I wonder if he could fool Mrs. Lar with his impersonation! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

Not a chance. Even online I'm guessing I'd get about one paraphraph out before Mrs. Lar said "Wait, you're too spicy and hip to be my husband. Whoever you are, you are one. happenin. dude. But not Lar." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

That's what she'd say. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

I'll ask her. She reads here so she's probably already laughing.

[A Horse With No Name]

I'll ask her. She reads here so she's probably already laughing.

Mrs. Lar reads WR??? Oh, helloooooooooo, Mrs. Lar! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

I'll ask her. She reads here so she's probably already laughing.

Mrs. Lar reads WR??? Oh, helloooooooooo, Mrs. Lar! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/boing.gif)

I thought she dumped his ass for proving people could too hook-up on Wikipedia.

[EricBarbour]

Abd you are a loser.

Whups, sorry, too late, they wanna talk trash about Lar now.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

[Abd]

Abd you are a loser.

Whups, sorry, too late, they wanna talk trash about Lar now.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

I saw that, and, WTF? Who is this "Shalom" schmuck?

Chutznik (T-C-L-K-R-D) .

Shalom (T-C-L-K-R-D) redirects there, but User:Shalom was deleted, deletion summary: 02:38, 15 November 2009 Skomorokh (talk | contribs) (27 bytes) (Page deleted per WP:RTV; editor has now unretired)

So I look at User talk:Shalom and find that it was moved to User talk:Shalom Yechiel. Shalom was renamed Shalom Yechiel in 2008, the contributions go back to 2005.

Looking at Chutznik, I find that our dear friend, Hipocrite, asked him about prior accounts. He responded by pointing to a post of his on Iridescent talk.

Our Chutznik definitely burned out. One of his last edits had the charming summary:

(you FUCKING IDIOTS let vandalism stay on for whole week)

The vandalism was a smiley face. Tempts me to add some, Wikipedia definitely needs more smiles. We have more fun on Wikiversity, while disemboweling fewer lab rats.

Since this obvious loser is apparently recognizing me as one, perhaps he has some advice for me? What leads him to so empathize with me that he drops in with that mysterious comment? What did I miss here?

[Zoloft]

Abd you are a loser.

Whups, sorry, too late, they wanna talk trash about Lar now.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

I saw that, and, WTF? Who is this "Shalom" schmuck?<snip>

Now, 'schmuck' is maybe a bit harsh. Let's be nice... What a balmalocha he is! *shrugs*

[Abd]

Abd you are a loser.

Whups, sorry, too late, they wanna talk trash about Lar now.... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

I saw that, and, WTF? Who is this "Shalom" schmuck?<snip>

Now, 'schmuck' is maybe a bit harsh. Let's be nice... What a balmalocha he is! *shrugs*

Well, it takes all kinds. Schmuck, I thought, had the right level of sarcasm and ethnic innuendo, to match "loser."

Among friends, of course.

Would the translation of "balmalocha" rhyme with exploit?

[SB_Johnny]

"Doofus" is underused, and funnier than "schmuck".

[Abd]

"Doofus" is underused, and funnier than "schmuck".

Okay, okay, so I'm a doofus for using "schmuck."

Meanwhile, poor Ottava is in blocked hell, seriously concerned because newcomers aren't being presented welcome templates. I'll see if I can do something about it.

[Ottava]

"Doofus" is underused, and funnier than "schmuck".

Okay, okay, so I'm a doofus for using "schmuck."

Meanwhile, poor Ottava is in blocked hell, seriously concerned because newcomers aren't being presented welcome templates. I'll see if I can do something about it.

If you bothered to do the real job of an admin and patrol, you would have seen that someone else did it 3 minutes after I asked.

But no, you are trapped in Abd world where all that exists is whatever you dreamed up of.

[Kwork]

Schmuck, I thought, had the right level of sarcasm and ethnic innuendo, to match "loser."

I have not followed this thread, but if you are looking to say 'loser,' that would be nebbish, not schmuck. But just what is the point of your looking for an "ethnic innuendo"? Saying that is your intention makes it sound like you are a bigoted schmuck.

[Zoloft]

I was simply enjoying the rich fabric of Yiddish invective. I used to own a copy of Leo Rosten's The Joy of Yiddish.

Are you trying to deny me the simple delights of life? Last week I was studying Japanese honorifics.

Next week, folk songs of the Balkans. "Stani, stani, ibar vodo..."

This post has been edited by Zoloft:

[Kwork]

I was simply enjoying the rich fabric of Yiddish invective. I used to own a copy of Leo Rosten's The Joy of Yiddish.

Are you trying to deny me the simple delights of life? Last week I was studying Japanese honorifics.

Next week, folk songs of the Balkans. "Stani, stani, ibar vodo..."

Zoloft, are you confusing yourself with Abd?

God forbid I should deny you the pleasure of Yiddish insults. Other possible choices for 'loser' are schlemiel and schlimazel. The standard explanation of the difference between the two is that it is the schlemiel who spills the soup on the schlimazel. They are light in their implications, hardly insulting at all.

But, particularly in current usage, nebbish carries the implication of a significant level of defectiveness. As in, for example: 'Why would she want to marry that nebbish, doesn't she know his first wife divorced him after he got arrested for flashing on the subway?'

[Abd]

But, particularly in current usage, nebbish carries the implication of a significant level of defectiveness. As in, for example: 'Why would she want to marry that nebbish, doesn't she know his first wife divorced him after he got arrested for flashing on the subway?'

Why do they always leave out the details, like, his first wife made the report that got him arrested, and he sued her for libel, and won custody of the kids to boot.

Details, details. He was arrested, isn't that what's important? Only a doofus would care about those minor points.

[Kwork]

But, particularly in current usage, nebbish carries the implication of a significant level of defectiveness. As in, for example: 'Why would she want to marry that nebbish, doesn't she know his first wife divorced him after he got arrested for flashing on the subway?'

Why do they always leave out the details, like, his first wife made the report that got him arrested, and he sued her for libel, and won custody of the kids to boot.

Details, details. He was arrested, isn't that what's important? Only a doofus would care about those minor points.

Yeah, sure. They always seem to have some sort of great excuse.
http://upcoming.current.com/search?q=Man+A...s+Tabasco+Sauce

[A Horse With No Name]

But, particularly in current usage, nebbish carries the implication of a significant level of defectiveness. As in, for example: 'Why would she want to marry that nebbish, doesn't she know his first wife divorced him after he got arrested for flashing on the subway?'

Why do they always leave out the details, like, his first wife made the report that got him arrested, and he sued her for libel, and won custody of the kids to boot.

Details, details. He was arrested, isn't that what's important? Only a doofus would care about those minor points.

Sort of reminds me of one of the greatest movie lines of all time: "My father, the most beloved gynecologist in Vienna, before they took him away on a morals charge for indecent exposure at the State Opera House, said, and I quote: "Please do not take me away, I will not do it again."

[Eva Destruction]

Sort of reminds me of one of the greatest movie lines of all time: "My father, the most beloved gynecologist in Vienna, before they took him away on a morals charge for indecent exposure at the State Opera House, said, and I quote: "Please do not take me away, I will not do it again."

One day, someone will explain Woody Allen to me. I really can't see the appeal. (With the exception of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I think the last movie I ever got up and walked out of was Hannah and her Sisters.)

[Milton Roe]

Sort of reminds me of one of the greatest movie lines of all time: "My father, the most beloved gynecologist in Vienna, before they took him away on a morals charge for indecent exposure at the State Opera House, said, and I quote: "Please do not take me away, I will not do it again."

One day, someone will explain Woody Allen to me. I really can't see the appeal. (With the exception of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I think the last movie I ever got up and walked out of was Hannah and her Sisters.)

You want us to explain a joke to you? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

See Annie Hall again. If you don't laugh, I can't help you. It's the old Louis Armstrong line:

"Mr. Armstrong, just what IS jazz?"
"Lady, if I got to explain it, you'll never know."

[A Horse With No Name]

(With the exception of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I think the last movie I ever got up and walked out of was Hannah and her Sisters.)

I wanted to walk out of a screening of "Crocodile Dundee 2." Unfortunately, I saw the film during a flight to Cleveland. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

See Annie Hall again. If you don't laugh, I can't help you.

Yes, that film is much funnier than Lar. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[Ottava]

(With the exception of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, I think the last movie I ever got up and walked out of was Hannah and her Sisters.)

I wanted to walk out of a screening of "Crocodile Dundee 2." Unfortunately, I saw the film during a flight to Cleveland. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

Going to Cleveland is torture enough!

[Abd]

Ottava has now gone totally bonkers. Let's see...

Starts process to strip SB_Johnny of his bits.

Threatens that I'll be blocked because I commented opposing the process.

Informs me that there are two "neutral" custodians waiting to block me as soon as they come back on. And they will block Jtneill and SB_Johnny if they try to help me. (Two 'crats.) He's also going after Mu301, another 'crat. And he tried to get Jimbo to intervene at WV, twice. Jimbo didn't bite, either time.

Ottava had two friends "oppose confirmation" -- his invented process -- immediately when he filed the thing. This was planned. Ottava always did do things by IRC, bypassing open process. If he's got two custodians lined up, as he claimed, we could see some fireworks. Any custodian who agrees as he has claimed isn't neutral, for sure.

Block without warning?

You know, I've written reams about recusal policy, but all of it included emergency exceptions. Heh!

I've been known to run a kamikaze operation when service of the Community required it. But it probably won't be necessary here.

[Ottava]

Blah blah blah whine cry

Policy says 7 days and only with real abuse of ops. SB Johnny had real abuse of ops and this is following procedure. You had 6 people with no history of activity vote to remove me without -any- example of an egregious error and after 3 days.

It states clearly that if you try to disrupt it, as you try to disrupt everything, you will be blocked. You will be banned after this is done with.

Your statements on Cold Fusion have been proven to be rambling lies by a person with no real background in science. Your actions here are only to gain power at Wikiversity in a desperate desire for vengeance against Wikipedians that you have no power over.

You turn to SB Johnny because he enables you as you help him destroy Wikiversity. You two have no place anywhere at the WMF, WR, or even the internet. You two are the worse trolls around.

And two of my friends? Sure, just like all you have supporting you is your friends. And where were they at Abd 2? Not there, as no one backed you up as you have no support. You have no place in an academic community just as you have no place at an encyclopedia.

You are an old, bile filled individual who does nothing but hate all day. You need to grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.

[Zoloft]

Placed my support for SB Johnny. What a bunch of nonsense you generate, Ottava. I'm holding off on contributing to Wikiversity until the crap from you stops.

[thekohser]

You two ((Abd and SB Johnny)) have no place anywhere at the WMF, WR, or even the internet. You two are the worse trolls around.

Ottava, that is probably one of the nicer ways you've ever described me.

[Ottava]

Placed my support for SB Johnny. What a bunch of nonsense you generate, Ottava. I'm holding off on contributing to Wikiversity until the crap from you stops.

So you are StaniStani?

Nice, now we have one of your accounts. How many accounts do you use again? I do find it interesting how you would defend one of the most abusive admin at the WMF - I mean, the real life stalking and harassing of others alone would justify banning him completely.

Oh, and your statements about "holding off", you never shown that you are able to contribute to academia there. I have real professors who will not come until SB Johnny and Abd are removed. If you think -I- am the problem, then you have a serious problem. I don't go around randomly desysopping and sysopping because I created an enemies list and need to cause a poisonous atmosphere.

Perhaps it can be excused that you weren't there for when SB Johnny aided the "ID Cabal" - Filll, Felonious Monk, Hipocrit, and KillerChihuahua - coming over with sock puppet names, harassing multiple users, giving them ops without any support, and the same problematic behavior that he repeated with Abd.



Thekohser - I've never called you a troll. I don't remember ever really negatively discussing you. I'm not sure where you developed the sudden view that I have a negative view of you. Neutral, perhaps.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[thekohser]

Thekohser - I've never called you a troll. I don't remember ever really negatively discussing you. I'm not sure where you developed the sudden view that I have a negative view of you. Neutral, perhaps.

Don't you know me, Ottava? With me, "neutral" ain't good enough.

[Ottava]

Thekohser - I've never called you a troll. I don't remember ever really negatively discussing you. I'm not sure where you developed the sudden view that I have a negative view of you. Neutral, perhaps.

Don't you know me, Ottava? With me, "neutral" ain't good enough.

Don't you know me, I don't cater to the feelings of others. Why do you think I can't be unbanned? Everyone knows that if I was a good whelp who praised those who need praise, didn't question those in power, and just made sure everyone had their feelings all taken care of, I wouldn't be have any problems.

I make case by case judgments and make sure that the right thing is pushed for regardless of my own personal feelings or gains. If you don't like it, there are plenty of sychophants in the world who I am sure will line up to follow you.

[thekohser]

If you don't like it, there are plenty of sychophants in the world who I am sure will line up to follow you.

There may be "plenty", but it's still not enough.

[Ottava]

If you don't like it, there are plenty of sychophants in the world who I am sure will line up to follow you.

There may be "plenty", but it's still not enough.

If it is not enough, learn to live without them.

[Milton Roe]

Don't you know me, I don't cater to the feelings of others. Why do you think I can't be unbanned? Everyone knows that if I was a good whelp who praised those who need praise, didn't question those in power, and just made sure everyone had their feelings all taken care of, I wouldn't be have any problems.

I make case by case judgments and make sure that the right thing is pushed for regardless of my own personal feelings or gains. If you don't like it, there are plenty of sychophants in the world who I am sure will line up to follow you.

You will not do well in large heirarchical businesses, the military, law enforcement and security, or academia. Recommended professions are various types of independant contractor (computers, plumbing, electrical, etc), small business limited or sole proprieter, commercial truck driver, and sundry careers in illegal drug trafficing.

--Milton's Initial Career Aptitude Evaluation

[Abd]

Well, have I pulled a Lar? I'm cutting through the crap, with an announcement that I intend to act, even though I'm heavily involved. I wrote the Wikiversity recusal policy with a full realization that there is a reason why administrators want to use their tools even if they are involved, and, that there is often a good reason for that.

The problem is not whether or not one should act if one thinks it important, but how.

In Wikiversity:Recusal, I described emergency action. Declaring an emergency, a sysop may act, but must immediately submit the action for review. In the present case, I invite any custodian to reverse any action, even without consultation, and also authorize blocking me if that's considered necessary to avoid a problem. It's laid out at My notice to the custodial community.

Of course, there is a trick involved. Any custodian intervening is then responsible for what follows. The goal is, in fact, to gain that kind of custodial attention to a problem. Somebody must act, if an action has already been taken, or the action stands.

This post has been edited by Abd:

[Zoloft]

Placed my support for SB Johnny. What a bunch of nonsense you generate, Ottava. I'm holding off on contributing to Wikiversity until the crap from you stops.

So you are StaniStani?

Try to keep up, Ottava. My only Wikimedia username (unified across Wikimedia projects) has been on my profile for months now at WR.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

This post has been edited by Zoloft:

[TungstenCarbide]

Don't you know me, I don't cater to the feelings of others. Why do you think I can't be unbanned? Everyone knows that if I was a good whelp who praised those who need praise, didn't question those in power, and just made sure everyone had their feelings all taken care of, I wouldn't be have any problems.

I make case by case judgments and make sure that the right thing is pushed for regardless of my own personal feelings or gains. If you don't like it, there are plenty of sychophants in the world who I am sure will line up to follow you.

You will not do well in large heirarchical businesses, the military, law enforcement and security, or academia. Recommended professions are various types of independant contractor (computers, plumbing, electrical, etc), small business limited or sole proprieter, commercial truck driver, and sundry careers in illegal drug trafficing.

--Milton's Initial Career Aptitude Evaluation

How true ...
Some people never fit in, no matter how hard they try or where they go or what they do. Sometimes it's due to abuse as a child - patterns of behavior and interaction, drilled into them from the earliest age, that resonate as a lightening rod for abuse and rejection in any group setting. Sometimes they are just weird, or deviant, or see authority as the enemy. Sometimes they are a victim of character assassination from which they'll never recover. Often a combination.

There happens to be reason behind this madness. People (or wolves for that matter) who don't fit in are supposed go out and create their own communities, thereby expanding the species' habitat and numbers, testing new communal ways, and eventually competing with the assholes that rejected them in the first place, if they manage not to go postal first.

This post has been edited by TungstenCarbide:

[Ottava]

Placed my support for SB Johnny. What a bunch of nonsense you generate, Ottava. I'm holding off on contributing to Wikiversity until the crap from you stops.

So you are StaniStani?

Try to keep up, Ottava. My only Wikimedia username (unified across Wikimedia projects) has been on my profile for months now at WR.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Compelling evidence has been provided as to your other accounts.

[Zoloft]

Placed my support for SB Johnny. What a bunch of nonsense you generate, Ottava. I'm holding off on contributing to Wikiversity until the crap from you stops.

So you are StaniStani?

Try to keep up, Ottava. My only Wikimedia username (unified across Wikimedia projects) has been on my profile for months now at WR.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Compelling evidence has been provided as to your other accounts.

Yeah and you have in your ". . . .hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department. . . ."

[lilburne]

Yeah and you have in your ". . . .hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department. . . ."

You are confused Ottava IS a paid up member of the Communist Party.

[RMHED]

Yeah and you have in your ". . . .hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department. . . ."

You are confused Ottava IS a paid up member of the Communist Party.

Correction.

[SB_Johnny]

Yeah and you have in your ". . . .hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department. . . ."

You are confused Ottava IS a paid up member of the Communist Party.

Correction.

Dateline Hong Kong: the price of tea in China continues to fluctuate due to speculations of future incidents involving the Bay of Boston, possible lack of demand for tea due to damaged branding, and mass confusion over whether Hitler was actually a black guy who may or may not be a bona fide American citizen.

Update at 11. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, have I pulled a Lar?

Oh, brother...that set-up is just too, too easy! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[Milton Roe]

There happens to be reason behind this madness. People (or wolves for that matter) who don't fit in are supposed go out and create their own communities, thereby expanding the species' habitat and numbers, testing new communal ways, and eventually competing with the assholes that rejected them in the first place, if they manage not to go postal first.

Well, that's true in social animals with a pack or pride social structure. Perhaps humans are indeed one of them. There seems to a tendency toward primogeniture, where #1 son inherrits the kingdom or feudal estate and "becomes" his gentrified father, while later and forgotton sons have to leave or so something to draw attention to themselves. They become the Osama bin Ladens. Or develop a fey sense of humor like JFK. Or adventure in other ways. In the days of the British empire, they went off to become career soldiers in far-flung places, "seeking the bubble reputation, even in the cannon's mouth." There's a long, long tradition of this.

As for getting kicked out by the assholes, then going back to show them up, do you know the story of the Donner-Reed party and James F. Reed? It reads like The Count of Monte Cristo. A few low-budget films have been made about the Donner party over the years, but a high-budget Russell Crowe-type film about Reed has not been attempted. It would be a gripping tale without the least change to the known historical story.