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[Web Fred]

The sort of person I am is one who supports free speech.

Jeez, how many times have we heard that before...

Racism is not "free speech," Mr. Fred. It's simply racism. Those who support racism under the false banner of "free speech" are actually harming free speech, by giving the ever-growing numbers of media-savvy extremist demagogues yet another excuse to try to curtail it. Luckily, nobody is listening to you or Mr. Tarc, or anyone else who posts here these days, including myself... but that isn't really an excuse.

Normally this thread would be closed around now, but I'm guessing that such nuanced approaches to maintaining topicality are just another thing we'll have to live without for a while.

Racists have every right to be racist if they so wish, and have just as much right to free speech as you do. They are human beings first, racists second. It's neither your place nor mine to say they can't be. The fact they are twats doesn't come into it. I don't know about you but I would far prefer to be able to spot the racist easily rather than having to look hard for the closet racist.

As it happens it's your sort who are risking free speech by demonising particular words and giving them and ever increasing amount of power.

If you weren't listening to what I had to say then how come you managing to reply to it? Or is the forum just like Usenet, in that it's a write-only medium.

This post has been edited by Web Fred: Tue 8th May 2012, 9:58am

[dtobias]

Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing racist ideas isn't free speech.

There are expressions of racism that aren't free speech: silently beating up a neighbor because of what race he is would be one such thing. There are expressions of free speech that can be debated about whether they constitute racism; expressing a critical view of affirmative action policies is one such thing (which some will consider racist to even bring up, while others may find it to be an area of legitimate philosophical disagreement). But some things fall in both the category of "racism" and the category of "free speech".

[Web Fred]

Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing racist ideas isn't free speech.

There are expressions of racism that aren't free speech: silently beating up a neighbor because of what race he is would be one such thing. There are expressions of free speech that can be debated about whether they constitute racism; expressing a critical view of affirmative action policies is one such thing (which some will consider racist to even bring up, while others may find it to be an area of legitimate philosophical disagreement). But some things fall in both the category of "racism" and the category of "free speech".

I agree totally.

Racism is a disgusting thing, but not being able to express your thoughts is far worse.

[Tarc]

...

Seriously Nab, go be a nigger somewhere else.

(And as my racial makeup is best described as "Oreo", I get to say that.)

Nigger or nigga?

I am a nigga. Nableezy is acting like a nigger.

I long ago stopped trying to explain the difference to white people.

And by the way, if I'd said "I long ago stopped trying to explain the difference to crackers", that would be actually racist. My original comment was not. I freely admit that it was trolling though, in the classic Usenet-era definition of that word. It was also a test of sorts, to see if there actually is anyone actively moderating this place.

I think we got our answer on that.

This post has been edited by Tarc: Tue 8th May 2012, 7:51pm

[nableezy]

...

So I am, paraphrasing my man, the one hanging from a tree and you are the one with gold chains on? That's nice to know. I guess that all that bluster is necessary when you can't actually respond to the points made.

Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.

[Web Fred]

Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.

And tastes like shit too.

Why can't Americans make decent chocolate?

[GlassBeadGame]

So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Going dark is better than letting your site degenerate into a forum for racist trolls. This is especial true because your best day ever was when you kicked some neo-nazi ass, giving birth to a long good run for WR.

[Emperor]

WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted here that's useful.

[The Joy]

[The Joy]

WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted here that's useful.

There are backups and it can be archived. No big deal.

[Retrospect]

I am a nigga. Nableezy is acting like a nigger.

You're both a pair of fuckwits and acting like a pair of fuckwits. And that ain't racist because I'd have said the same to whoever.

So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Going dark is better than letting your site degenerate into a forum for racist trolls. This is especial true because your best day ever was when you kicked some neo-nazi ass, giving birth to a long good run for WR.

Or just get a finger out and make The Joy a moderator. And anyone else around here who's not batshit crazy.

[Alison]

WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted here that's useful.

Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watching some wise and venerable politician slip into senility in their old age ...

[Fusion]

Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watching some wise and venerable politician slip into senility in their old age ...

We have a saying at home, "If you cannot say something sweet, it is best to say nothing".

[The Joy]

So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Going dark is better than letting your site degenerate into a forum for racist trolls. This is especial true because your best day ever was when you kicked some neo-nazi ass, giving birth to a long good run for WR.

Or just get a finger out and make The Joy a moderator. And anyone else around here who's not batshit crazy.

I did ask Selina, but she has not responded to my request. I'm certain I can not save the forum, but I could at least move the more libelous and egregious posts out of public view. Wikipedia's Google juice causes enough problems for people, the Review should not add to it.

[The Joy]

WR shouldn't go down. Too much stuff posted here that's useful.

Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watching some wise and venerable politician slip into senility in their old age ...

Well, I already brought Hitler into the thread. Under Godwin's Law, that should mean this thread is at an end, FWIW.

I guess we'll never solve the issue of the Prophet's image being on Wikimedia sites.

[RMHED]

So Selina, see why its time to pull the plug? Going dark is better than letting your site degenerate into a forum for racist trolls. This is especial true because your best day ever was when you kicked some neo-nazi ass, giving birth to a long good run for WR.

[Web Fred]

Selina needs to pull the plug. It's like watching some wise and venerable politician slip into senility in their old age ...

We have a saying at home, "If you cannot say something sweet, it is best to say nothing".

Then you'll end up staying at home dying of the stress induced from the frustration of not saying what you really feel.

You should try it. It's very liberating and freeing.

And in my case, compulsory, thanks to my brain's wiring,

[Eppur si muove]

Also, FYI, an Oreo is white on the inside.

And tastes like shit too.

Why can't Americans make decent chocolate?

At least the equivalent British metaphor, the Bounty Bar, is almost edible.

[Eppur si muove]

Racism being bad doesn't mean that expressing racist ideas isn't free speech.

There are expressions of racism that aren't free speech: silently beating up a neighbor because of what race he is would be one such thing. There are expressions of free speech that can be debated about whether they constitute racism; expressing a critical view of affirmative action policies is one such thing (which some will consider racist to even bring up, while others may find it to be an area of legitimate philosophical disagreement). But some things fall in both the category of "racism" and the category of "free speech".

I agree totally.

Racism is a disgusting thing, but not being able to express your thoughts is far worse.

It depends on who's preventing the expression of your thoughts. If it's Tony Blair, the cops, the CPS, and some hypocritical magistrate locking up some fuckwit student from Swansea who tweeted a load of nonsense when drunk then that is bad. The State cannot be trusted when it resticts free speech and the Blairite race laws are just window dressing while the afore mentioned cops, CPS and magistrate continue to be part of the system that locks up a disproportionate number of black people.

On the other hand, when Vidal Sassoon and his mates in the 43 Group beat up Jeffrey Hamm and the other preachers of race hate, that was good suppression of free speech. Hamm, Mosley and co would have set up death camps in the UK if they were given the chance and a quick demonstration that they were no physical specimens of a master race helped prevent far worse nastiness.

[Tarc]

when you can't actually respond to the points made.

Let me know when you actually get around to making one.

There's a simple premise here; an online encyclopedia should not self-censor its coverage on Muslim/Islamic topics because adherents are offended.

I'm generally supportive of efforts to rid the project of nudity and porn in places where one does not expect to find it, e.g. a Commons search for cucumbers or the lead image of the pregnancy articles. Sex in public is frowned upon by virtually every social, ideological, and cultural norm.

But pictures of the dear Prophet? The butthurt total is 1/5th to 1/4th, assuming that every Muslim opposes depictions. A minority that does not get to impose its views upon the majority.

This post has been edited by Tarc: Thu 10th May 2012, 1:44pm