Odd Nature has been personally attacked! Options Rating

[Winnie]

All very true points, but I agree with dogbiscuit. The chances of something terrible happening may seem low, but it's still a possibility. Look at what happened to Alison. Rare thing, surely (at least I hope), but I know the feeling of having your real name and city up on a site that is considered an attack site. It's a worrisome feeling, particularly when you've got enemies, and this (ID) group is certainly not lacking any of those. There's no positive advantage to advertising such personal information. It doesn't encourage anything helpful. I think it is probably more productive to shame them by on-wiki means until enough people open their eyes and decide to do something about it. The ID group issues are coming to the community's attention now. Give it time. They've got a hell of a lot more eyes on their contribs now than they did before. The group may be powerful, but they can only ward off so many enemies before they find themselves overcome. Their own edits will bury them eventually.

That's why it would only be right to use only information found online. For example, Mitchell names himself a Wikipedia administrator, gives his real name in connection with his user name, and has himself used wikipedia diffs to out people by connecting them with their IPs. He can hardly complain. Likewise, Ramjohn signs his real name to his list contributions, connecting his real name with his WP user name. All this is public on the internet, nothing gained by privacy invasion.

Mitchell's use of a sockpuppet is particularly bad, if accurate, because Odd nature has voted in the same polls as Felonious, reverted back to Felonious in a content dispute, etc.

We've only just begun.

JUst when I thought you couldn't get worse, you start quoting The Carpenters at us

LOL

This post has been edited by Winnie: Fri 4th July 2008, 9:08pm

[Moulton]

All very true points, but I agree with dogbiscuit. The chances of something terrible happening may seem low, but it's still a possibility. Look at what happened to Alison. Rare thing, surely (at least I hope), but I know the feeling of having your real name and city up on a site that is considered an attack site. It's a worrisome feeling, particularly when you've got enemies, and this (ID) group is certainly not lacking any of those. There's no positive advantage to advertising such personal information. It doesn't encourage anything helpful. I think it is probably more productive to shame them by on-wiki means until enough people open their eyes and decide to do something about it. The ID group issues are coming to the community's attention now. Give it time. They've got a hell of a lot more eyes on their contribs now than they did before. The group may be powerful, but they can only ward off so many enemies before they find themselves overcome. Their own edits will bury them eventually.

I, for one, have no intention of contacting anyone's employers. The employment information, which the ID editors freely disclosed on Naymz, is only of interest in that it ties into the IPs that geolocate those posting on my blog, visiting my website, etc.

Nor do I propose to shame them. I have solid scientific evidence that the practice of shaming and blaming is iatrogenic — ineffective at best and counter-productive at worst. Moreover, shaming and blaming has been found to be the single most salient cause of subsequent acts of violence. I have no interest in engaging in a practice that triggers some people into violent reactions.

Nope.

I propose to discover how to get those miserable miscreants in the Idiotic ID Cabal to laugh at themselves and repent of their frenetically frumious folly.

We've only just begun.

Just when I thought you couldn't get worse, you start quoting The Carpenters at us

LOL

As you have requested, I'll have your song parody ready just as soon as I can find Barsoom Tork and get him working on it.

Now where the bloody hell did that Martian wander off to?

What does he think this is? A national holiday or something?

Dammit, Barsoom! We have work to do.

Harrumph.

I'll have to send Montana Mouse out to find him.

[Moulton]

We're Only Having Fun

Here we go...

Title: We're Only Having Fun
Artist: Montana Mouse
Lyrics: Paul Williams and Barsoom Tork Associates
Music: Roger Nichols
Midi: We've Only Just Begun

We've only just begun to jive,
IPs and traceroutes
A hostmask and we're on our way.
And yes, we've just begun.

Before the rising sun we post,
So many threads to choose
We start out balking and learn to gun.
And yes, we're having fun.

Sharing theories that are new to us,
Watching the blocks along the way,
Talking it over just the foo of fuss,
Clashing together every day
Together.

And when the hits come in we smile,
So much strife ahead
We'll find a place where the mushrooms grow,
And yes, we're having fun

CopyClef 2008 Paul Williams, Roger Nichols, and Barsoom Tork Associates.
Resurrection Hackware, Reclusive Internet Dementors. All wrongs reversed.

"At Resurrection Hackware, our annoying music is your everlasting earworm."

This post has been edited by Moulton: Fri 4th July 2008, 9:56pm

[wikiwhistle]

Take a look at this page...

http://www.loveaccess.com/personals/filll

Is this our Filll?

How many of the details match what we know? Are any of the details suggestive of a mismatch or mistaken identity?

Moulton

He's dishy, and he has a sense of humour. Which, no offence to Filll, I've not personally seen in his writings.

[Milton Roe]

Take a look at this page...

http://www.loveaccess.com/personals/filll

Is this our Filll?

How many of the details match what we know? Are any of the details suggestive of a mismatch or mistaken identity?

Moulton

He's dishy, and he has a sense of humour. Which, no offence to Filll, I've not personally seen in his writings.

Got him! That's our Filll, photo and all.

I like to work out and tell bad jokes. I am a research scientist. I study climate. I used to teach aerobics and I studied jazz, modern and ballet for a few years. I like women that are 1. pleasant and 2. have some brains and 3. some looks, in that order!

The Ph.D., climate studies, Wash, D.C. area (Bowie, MD), English as first language, French second, and use of word "some" (I have some degrees from his user page, and now here: I want a woman with some brains, some looks...")

Gee, that describes me also, but I wouldn't put it just that way. Some things don't merit a some.

Now, if we only had a name.

Incidentally, the major employer of climate-modelers in Bowie, MD would be the IDA Center for Computing Sciences. The IDA standing for Institute for Defense Analysis for which you should understand National Security Agency. Which is probably why Durova is interested in inteviewing the guy. They have a Cray X1, one of the faster computers there is, and when it's not busy decrypting your phone calls, they use it to model weather and stuff. So that's probaby what this guy does. I haven't found him on any of these presentations there, clearly, but only because of sloth. He'll turn up as a fellow who is new post-doc.

Shaping up to be a nice WW Hivemind entry, tho.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Fri 4th July 2008, 11:43pm

[Bob Boy]

Given Jim62sch's history, maybe someone should drop a line to the IRS to ask if Jim is editing on company time.

I hope that was idle musing by Bob Boy. Such idle comments allow people to characterise our efforts here as an attack site as bad as Wikipedia is. It also makes it harder to get one of the honest check user operators to act upon the evidence as it can be characterised on wiki as an off-site attack.

I have no issue with a bit of investigation on people's identities as a means of understanding their behaviour which in this tight knit group seems appropriate. There is a big difference between discovering conflicts of interest and using private information as a means of attack or coercion.

Yes, it was just musing - I wouldn't ever do anything like that.

[prospero]

Word to the wise, it might be worthwhile to make archives of the evidence, since Filll and company read these threads.

[Milton Roe]

Word to the wise, it might be worthwhile to make archives of the evidence, since Filll and company read these threads.

Yeah, that photo is going to be gone off the web by tomorrow. So somebody get it for HiveMind while it's hot.

[tarantino]

Word to the wise, it might be worthwhile to make archives of the evidence, since Filll and company read these threads.

Yeah, that photo is going to be gone off the web by tomorrow. So somebody get it for HiveMind while it's hot.

Oh it's been done, weeks ago. ;) He's not hivemind material though, as he's not an admin

[wikiwhistle]

That bloke says he's a protestant christian, whereas I don't think 'our filll' is. Looking at his beliefomatic scores (such as it is- completely innaccurate I know lol but still) his beliefs may be similar to mine, which are quite the opposite of a protestant christian.

[Milton Roe]

That bloke says he's a protestant christian, whereas I don't think 'our filll' is. Looking at his beliefomatic scores (such as it is- completely innaccurate I know lol but still) his beliefs may be similar to mine, which are quite the opposite of a protestant christian.

Well, what's the opposite of a Protestant Christian?? Like the old joke about Liberals: it's not true that Protestants don't believe in anything. They do believe in anything...

I would bet you a paycheck that this is our guy. BTW, there's also a "Bowie Computer Center" in Bowie associated with the National Weather Service, that does a lot of climate modeling.

Word to the wise, it might be worthwhile to make archives of the evidence, since Filll and company read these threads.

Yeah, that photo is going to be gone off the web by tomorrow. So somebody get it for HiveMind while it's hot.

Oh it's been done, weeks ago. He's not hivemind material though, as he's not an admin

Patience. He's got a zillion edits, an advanced degree, and isn't socially retarded. Seems to be quite intelligent, actually. I'm amazed he's not an admin already.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Sat 5th July 2008, 1:04am

[Lar]

You may well be right. But I nevertheless say " Do not sink to the level of those arrayed against you." YMMV of course and I wish you the best in any case.

I understand where you're coming from. I generally subscribe to the goose/gander school, myself.

The core issue is how to deal with the PotKettleBlack/Tu Quoque/Hypocrisy of Filll, FeloniousMonk, Odd nature, OrangeMarlin, Blueboy96, and KillerChihuahua applying double standards, whereby the same act is an unforgivably egregious hanging offense if an adversarial editor does it, but a shoulder-shrugging, excusable, no big deal if one of their own tribe does it.

I think that Mutual assured destruction is a good applied philosophy here - it worked in the Cold War. Any Wikipedia user who engages in outing should be willing to accept the consequence of being outed themselves.

OK, out of the bunch here that you all are merrily chasing after, who has outed others? Where are the diffs for that? And even if so, I just reject this outing nonsense, I don't care who did what to who. The ends do not justify the means.

I absolutely cannot condone any of this and I want my strong objection and reservations about this technique and its use on record.

[wikiwhistle]

OK, out of the bunch here that you all are merrily chasing after, who has outed others? Where are the diffs for that? And even if so, I just reject this outing nonsense, I don't care who did what to who. The ends do not justify the means.

I absolutely cannot condone any of this and I want my strong objection and reservations about this technique and its use on record.

Me too, I enjoy googling and am curious and so on as much as the next person, and it's easy to get drawn into the game, but I don't want to condone outing or picking at people's private off-wiki stuff. (Tempting as it is.)

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle: Sat 5th July 2008, 3:22am

[Proabivouac]

OK, out of the bunch here that you all are merrily chasing after, who has outed others? Where are the diffs for that? And even if so, I just reject this outing nonsense, I don't care who did what to who. The ends do not justify the means.

I absolutely cannot condone any of this and I want my strong objection and reservations about this technique and its use on record.

Well, there's this, in which Jim62sch threatened Videmus Omnia's livelihood:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showt...eaded&pid=71175
JzG defended this behavior, as did OrangeMarlin. Jim62sch blamed his medication. ArbCom did nothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...ration/Jim62sch
Videmus Omnia was an excellent contributor, and was,. indeed, driven off - only a few contribs since that happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...s/Videmus_Omnia
He wouldn't even participate in the Arbitration. I really don't blame him.

There you have it: more proof that those favored by the leadership are allowed to break any rule with impunity, including those against outing and threatening other contributors in real life. Until they can practice what they preach, their hypocritical pretenses to piety should be exposed, ridiculed, and ignored.

Now Lar, you might say, well I would never have done that, or allowed it to go unremedied. Okay, we can both agree that this is a big problem. Let us fix it by removing those arbitrators behind this decision, desysoping JzG, etc.

It's much easier to blame us here, isn't it?

[Milton Roe]

OK, out of the bunch here that you all are merrily chasing after, who has outed others? Where are the diffs for that? And even if so, I just reject this outing nonsense, I don't care who did what to who. The ends do not justify the means.

I absolutely cannot condone any of this and I want my strong objection and reservations about this technique and its use on record.

You're on record, Lar, but the ends quite often justify the means. Wikipedia must stop using BLP as a weapon. And the people with power on WP must stop using the promise to fix up BLP in exchange for something, like money or sex. I see no way to do those things but for WP to eschew BLP altogether. If you don't, you'll forever have double standards-- one for people you like, and one for those you don't like.

Which is fine. We have that, here, too. But at least we don't lie to ourselves about it. And while it goes on over at WP on a massive scale, I'm finding it impossible to feel guilty about it.

Just today, the argument against an article on WR being in WP was that it wasn't notable AND it was navel-gazing (WP:NNG = no navel-gazing, one supposes). That idea was civily spelled out one-letter-at a T-I-M-E for Viridae. In case he couldn't read or wasn't getting it.

Why, it was said, if we have an article for WR we might as well have an article about... Durova!! (Gasp).

But there is an article in WP on Encyclopedia Dramatica, and in Encyclopedia Dramatica, there is (in turn) an article on Durova. Rather a nasty one, I'm afraid. WP actually couldn't care less about this. The truth of the matter is that WP really doesn't like WR, because we tell the truth too often here. ED, which claims (for example) super lesbian powers for Durova, is no danger to Wikipedia. Here, we know Durova doesn't actually have super lesbian powers, and will tell you so. And THAT is scary. I-S S-C-A-R-Y. (That was for Viridae).

But that's fine. I'm not pushing for an inclusion to have a WR article in WP-- all it would do is allow them a venue to lampoon us. A venue which they're presently denying themselves. (Duhhh. Them not incredibly smart about this).

Whether they finally allow an article on WR or not, they (the powers that be on WP) must stop BLP on WP, or else continue to suffer, individually, the slings and arrows of internet attention. Sorry, but they're simply unteachable about privacy issues, and I see no other way to teach them. If you have some, I'm all ears.

[Moulton]

OK, out of the bunch here that you all are merrily chasing after, who has outed others? Where are the diffs for that? And even if so, I just reject this outing nonsense, I don't care who did what to who. The ends do not justify the means.

I absolutely cannot condone any of this and I want my strong objection and reservations about this technique and its use on record.

Both FM and Dave Souza published my surname on Wikipedia, providing thereby a concordance in a tight paragraph of my WP username and my surname. As I had indicated, I don't object if registered editors with whom I am collaborating follow off-wiki links to validate my credentials and bonafides. What I object to is having that linkage published in a tight paragraph on-wiki that turns up in a single paragraph on a Google search page. Yet no one batted an eye when they did that. If you have forgotten that I previously told you about that, I'll dig up the messages for you, with the diffs, Lar.

What I also object to is the double standard, the blatant hypocrisy, Lar.

[guy]

Now, if we only had a name.

Very simple. Get one of our many attractive female members to sign up for the site and contact him.

[Milton Roe]

Now, if we only had a name.

Very simple. Get one of our many attractive female members to sign up for the site and contact him.

Okay, Guynevere, have at it. Be sure to e-giggle now and then.

[SirFozzie]

REALLLLY bad idea guys, I don't think you want to do this.

[KamrynMatika]

I'm not ethically opposed to this (if someone puts information up about themselves on the internet and someone else comes along and joins the dots, they aren't really in a position to complain), but.. it does seem really odd when someone pops up in a thread with "so and so's name is xy". It just doesn't seem relevant - discussing people's identities has never really got anyone anywhere, unless you're in it just to piss the subject off (which is fair enough I guess). The real identities of many abusive admins are public and they've not quit and they've not stopped being abusive. And if an abusive admin did quit because you published his real name, it'd only be so's he could start working on a better-concealed sock. The information is, as you say, available on the internet so why not just leave it there for whomever is interested enough to look for it ...? At the moment it only seems to derail threads into interpersonal dramas.

However, don't refrain from doing anything for the sake of this forum's reputation or whatever some people would have you believe.. this place really isn't going to redeem itself, so why bother trying?

But anyways, more on topic... Proabivouac, I'd never seen this http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showt...eaded&pid=71175 before. What a nasty piece of work. Everything I see from this group of editors reinforces my opinion that they really are complete scum. I wish I had the time and the motivation to watchlist their common battlegrounds and argue with them about their behaviour but you know.. better things to do than fight with a bunch of grads that really should know better I think (hope) that the increase in this kind of cliquish, bullying behaviour combined with the levelling out of account creation and the influx of twelve year old wannabe admins will cause Wikipedia's version of the Eternal September.