Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
_ Durova _ Durova Resigns
Posted by: WhispersOfWisdom
Durova Resigns on 11-26-07
Posted by: Miltopia
Who shall be the first to update her "arbitration tips" page accordingly?
Posted by: WhispersOfWisdom
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Mon 26th November 2007, 3:57pm) 
Who shall be the first to update her "arbitration tips" page accordingly?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Durova_and_Jehochman/Evidence&diff=prev&oldid=173935337
Posted by: Miltopia
Raymond Aritt "quits" after his stupid "don't criticize admins" workshop proposal is rejected:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Raymond+arritt&namespace=&year=&month=11
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:03pm)
Raymond Aritt "quits" after his stupid "don't criticize admins" workshop proposal is rejected:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Raymond+arritt&namespace=&year=&month=11
There's a word for that in online board speak.
"Flouncing".
They always come back after flouncing off...
Posted by: Somey
Raymond Arritt? There's a professor at Iowa State by that name. Is it the same guy, I wonder? And will they accuse me of "stalking" him, just for asking the question? I mean, if he's adminning WP under his real name...?
If it's the same guy, maybe he and I could meet for lunch! I could take him around to the set of my new movie...
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FDurova_and_Jehochman%2FWorkshop&diff=173780647&oldid=173780462
That's about 3pm on 25th November. Being 12 hours or so before she "resigned".
Don't know how we all missed that.
Posted by: jorge
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 10:40pm)
If it's the same guy, maybe he and I could meet for lunch! I could take him around to the set of my new movie...
Which is?
Posted by: Somey
QUOTE(jorge @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:52pm)
Which is?
It's the meal that comes between breakfast and dinner, silly!
Sometimes I wonder about you guys...
Posted by: the fieryangel
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:44pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FDurova_and_Jehochman%2FWorkshop&diff=173780647&oldid=173780462
That's about 3pm on 25th November. Being 12 hours or so before she "resigned".
Don't know how we all missed that.
You've got sharp eyes, DL....
Posted by: Jonny Cache
One good thing to come of all this —
I've never seen the Wikienlist so quiet …
Then again, maybe they made it the new soopersekrit list —
I wonder when I'll be able to spell "sooper" and "sekrit" again ???
Jonny 
Posted by: Moulton
The timing (and the identity of the operant Steward) suggest to me that Durova was strongly induced to resign as a face-saving measure.
I don't think she walked the plank on her own dime. I think WP:Office put the coins in the meter.
Posted by: Somey
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:44pm)
Don't know how we all missed that.
I believe that was just a "proposed remedy" in the ArbCom case, DL... The actual desysopping is here, shortly after the resignation announcement:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=Bastique&page=User%3ADurova%40enwiki
Not that any of this really matters in the final analysis, of course. But it does suggest that she did it on her own volition.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:56pm)
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:44pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FDurova_and_Jehochman%2FWorkshop&diff=173780647&oldid=173780462
That's about 3pm on 25th November. Being 12 hours or so before she "resigned".
Don't know how we all missed that.
You've got sharp eyes, DL....
Maybe not too sharp. That as a http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FDurova_and_Jehochman%2FWorkshop&diff=173780647&oldid=173780462#Proposed_remedies, one was support for !!, one was limit Durova's power, and one was desysop.
She was also being asked unsavory questions like:
QUOTEhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FDurova_and_Jehochman%2FWorkshop&diff=173780647&oldid=173780462#Question_to_Durova_from_Kwsn
Q. Other than to not reveal the "methods of investigation", was there any other reason why you didn't post the email? Kwsn (Ni!) 19:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
She did answer questions such as the one asking if she really spied on WR, but not the one about why she didn't post the email.
She did well to resign. She was going to be asked what she didn't want to answer all along.
No chance to answer, my foot.
Posted by: Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 3:00pm)
The timing (and the identity of the operant Steward) suggest to me that Durova was strongly induced to resign as a face-saving measure.
On the other hand, I can think of some admins that have made plenty of bad blocks without resigning. Maybe Durova is having pangs of conscience, and she will decide to turn around and become a crusader for justice. Like Kelly Martin!
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 3:00pm)
The timing (and the identity of the operant Steward) suggest to me that Durova was strongly induced to resign as a face-saving measure.
Entirely possible, as well as very likely.
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 26th November 2007, 5:08pm)
On the other hand, I can think of some admins that have made plenty of bad blocks without resigning. Maybe Durova is having pangs of conscience, and she will decide to turn around and become a crusader for justice. Like Kelly Martin!
Dreamer.... nothing but a dreamer.... once you put your hands on your head oh no... (ripping off Supertramp)
Posted by: jorge
Don't know whether anyone noticed http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADurova&diff=173951851&oldid=173949616 
Posted by: guy
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:08pm)
Maybe Durova is having pangs of conscience, and she will decide to turn around and become a crusader for justice. Like Kelly Martin!
I look forward to her blog where she admits that the blocking of Poetlister etc. was a miscarriage of justice as Kelly Martin did.
Posted by: Derktar
Methinks she fell on her sword to save "the list."
Posted by: Firsfron of Ronchester
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=next&oldid=173963740
This is the first time I've read that misfits aren't welcome on Wikipedia...
Posted by: Derktar
QUOTE(Firsfron of Ronchester @ Mon 26th November 2007, 3:25pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=next&oldid=173963740
This is the first time I've read that misfits aren't welcome on Wikipedia...
Personally I like the term, Reviewniks which I picked up from Casey Abell's blog.
Posted by: Moulton
Before falling on your sword, make sure the blade is flat against the ground.
QUOTE(Derktar @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:22pm)
Methinks she fell on her sword to save "the list."
It occurred to me that there might have been a quid pro quo in the deal. If the Inner Cabal wanted to retain the back-channel machine, Durova would need to be induced not to spill her guts. So they might have had to promise her some consolation prize if she gallantly fell on her sword to bring down the curtain on this act.
Posted by: the fieryangel
QUOTE(Derktar @ Tue 27th November 2007, 12:28am)
Personally I like the term, Reviewniks which I picked up from Casey Abell's blog.
Yes, but Reviewniks definitely needs to be in italics to have the full effect!
Posted by: everyking
It's great to finally see a case where everything works out the way it should: admin abuse, for once, is followed not by acquiescence punctuated by a few hopeless whimpers of protest, but by a backlash of mass outrage leading to the resignation of the abusive admin--with that admin receiving the disapproval of even the ArbCom, typically the reliable guardian of abusive admins. Other abusive admins tried and failed to silence and outmaneuver the community on behalf of their ally. It's a remarkable series of events, breaking all of Wikipedia's worst traditions, and as an optimist I would like to believe that this is something that will have decisive long-term consequences, knocking down a barrier that is keeping Wikipedia from reaching its full potential.
Posted by: Oracle
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:29pm)
Before falling on your sword, make sure the blade is flat against the ground.
QUOTE(Derktar @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:22pm)
Methinks she fell on her sword to save "the list."
It occurred to me that there might have been a quid pro quo in the deal. If the Inner Cabal wanted to retain the back-channel machine, Durova would need to be induced not to spill her guts. So they might have had to promise her some consolation prize if she gallantly fell on her sword to bring down the curtain on this act.
Forgive my language....
Did you pull that out of your ass?
O
Posted by: wikiwhistle
Hmmm, we'll see 
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Oracle @ Mon 26th November 2007, 8:52pm)
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:29pm)
Before falling on your sword, make sure the blade is flat against the ground.
QUOTE(Derktar @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:22pm)
Methinks she fell on her sword to save "the list."
It occurred to me that there might have been a quid pro quo in the deal. If the Inner Cabal wanted to retain the back-channel machine, Durova would need to be induced not to spill her guts. So they might have had to promise her some consolation prize if she gallantly fell on her sword to bring down the curtain on this act.
Forgive my language....
Did you pull that out of your ass?
O
That would be Durovaistic reasoning. Here's mine: Durova is being sent very deep undercover. She must be seen as discredited and abandoned. She infiltrates the evil doers, exposing their nefarious plots and schemes. Attribs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Was_a_Communist_for_the_FBI
Posted by: Robster
Durova has also withdrawn from the ArbCom election.
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Mon 26th November 2007, 8:03pm)
That would be Durovaistic reasoning. Here's mine: Durova is being sent very deep undercover. She must be seen as discredited and abandoned. She infiltrates the evil doers, exposing their nefarious plots and schemes. Attribs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Was_a_Communist_for_the_FBI
Don't miss the sequel:
I was a Wikipedia administrator for MI5!
Posted by: anthony
QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 27th November 2007, 1:17am)
It's great to finally see a case where everything works out the way it should: admin abuse, for once, is followed not by acquiescence punctuated by a few hopeless whimpers of protest, but by a backlash of mass outrage leading to the resignation of the abusive admin--with that admin receiving the disapproval of even the ArbCom, typically the reliable guardian of abusive admins.
Call me a cynic, but I think the reason she's left hung out to dry is because she made the other sooper sekrit list members look bad.
Posted by: Moulton
The cool thing about these Mortification Soap Operas is that there's a million different ways to twist the script.
The question is whether the cast of characters is up to the challenge of playing their assigned chosen roles.
Posted by: wikiwhistle
QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 27th November 2007, 1:17am)
with that admin receiving the disapproval of even the ArbCom, typically the reliable guardian of abusive admins.
Forgive me if I've missed a bit, but could you point me to some diffs where any members of ArbCom themselves disapproved of her actions? Some of them approved beforehand.
Posted by: dtobias
QUOTE(Firsfron of Ronchester @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:25pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=next&oldid=173963740
This is the first time I've read that misfits aren't welcome on Wikipedia...
Is there an Island of Misfit Wikipedians that Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer can rescue?
Posted by: Piperdown
QUOTE(WhispersOfWisdom @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:55pm)
Durova Resigns on 11-26-07
only to take SV's standard recommendation to quit, start another user account, and get fast-tracked to be re-adminned under the witness protection program new name less than 6 months from now.
Posted by: dtobias
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th November 2007, 5:58pm)
I wonder when I'll be able to spell "sooper" and "sekrit" again ???
I prefer to spell it "Sooper Seekrit", with two "e"s in the last word to match the two "o"s in the first one. But that's just me.
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
WANTED: Pet rattlesnake. Old one bit me.
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(dtobias @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:41pm)
QUOTE(Firsfron of Ronchester @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:25pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=next&oldid=173963740
This is the first time I've read that misfits aren't welcome on Wikipedia...
Is there an Island of Misfit Wikipedians that Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer can rescue?
No these Misfits.
Posted by: Somey
I'm not the least bit surprised that she resigned, personally, and I doubt that it was arranged... The simple fact of it is, she didn't have to resign at all - all she had to do was promise to stop portraying herself as some sort of "sock-hunting super-sleuth," given that she obviously wasn't good at it, and go back to doing regular admin duties - in which case, the whole thing would have eventually died down and relatively few people would have complained. Nobody forced her to ask Cary Bass to desysop her, and it's doubtful that the ArbCom would have done it either. And it's not as though her being a regular editor means they're going to kick her off the sooperseekrit mailing list.
If you ask me, Durova is probably some sort of depressive personality with a major chip on her shoulder. She's a perfectionist, and not the good kind of perfectionist who actually strives for perfection, but the bad kind who freaks out when perfection can't be achieved - and who then starts blaming others when things go wrong, and ultimately gives up completely at the first instance of an unfixable "stain" on her "perfect record."
I doubt she'll stand for another RfA, we eventually may not even see all that much of her again, period. She'll stick around to defend herself (again, by blaming others), but once that gets tiresome, the place will have lost all interest for her. Regular admin duties like reverting vandals and cleaning up articles just aren't enough for sock-hunting super-sleuths, I'm afraid.
Posted by: Piperdown
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:51am)
QUOTE(dtobias @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:41pm)
QUOTE(Firsfron of Ronchester @ Mon 26th November 2007, 6:25pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=next&oldid=173963740
This is the first time I've read that misfits aren't welcome on Wikipedia...
Is there an Island of Misfit Wikipedians that Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer can rescue?
No these Misfits.
Gable dies after losing community patience with Monroe.
Monroe dies shortly after, trying to relieve her guilt over Gable's permanent "Re-tirement" by partying with the Kennedys only to get an overly stiff death suppository for her troubles.
Monty Cliff, a hopeless case on many levels, loses pretty boy status, displays his shadowy former self, and after this last film gasp, dies in seclusion after some more years in seclusion.
yeah, i guess it is a cautionary tale for the account status of WP abusers who used to be the cash cows of the Golden Age of The Studio System of Wikipedia.
Whether Jimbo claims to be the sole Zannick cannot be confirmed at this time.
Posted by: Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:06pm)
I'm not the least bit surprised that she resigned, personally, and I doubt that it was arranged... The simple fact of it is, she didn't have to resign at all — all she had to do was promise to stop portraying herself as some sort of "sock-hunting super-sleuth", given that she obviously wasn't good at it, and go back to doing regular admin duties — in which case, the whole thing would have eventually died down and relatively few people would have complained. Nobody forced her to ask Cary Bass to desysop her, and it's doubtful that the ArbCom would have done it either. And it's not as though her being a regular editor means they're going to kick her off the sooperseekrit mailing list.
If you ask me, Durova is probably some sort of depressive personality with a major chip on her shoulder. She's a perfectionist, and not the good kind of perfectionist who actually strives for perfection, but the bad kind who freaks out when perfection can't be achieved — and who then starts blaming others when things go wrong, and ultimately gives up completely at the first instance of an unfixable "stain" on her "perfect record".
I doubt she'll stand for another RfA, we eventually may not even see all that much of her again, period. She'll stick around to defend herself (again, by blaming others), but once that gets tiresome, the place will have lost all interest for her. Regular admin duties like reverting vandals and cleaning up articles just aren't enough for sock-hunting super-sleuths, I'm afraid.
I haven't been able to follow all of the posts on this and the 5 or 6 other threads devoted to the Durova Debacle, but just from my sample it seems that everyone has missed the more likely possibility that Durova got disciplined not for going ban-anas on Bamm-Bamm — I mean, really, where's the novelty in yet another ban-button mainliner going Koo-Koo 4 Koko-Puffs over dey ??? — but because she outed the existence of SlimVirgin's enemas list.
Jonny
Posted by: thekohser
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=prev&oldid=173961833.
"The mob" my arse. Please remember, the entire tone of Durova's warfare (at least in my opinion) kicked off a few days after Jimmy Wales personally unblocked me and Lise Broer decided to say I gave misleading information to journalists, yet refused to divulge her evidence that "proved" this (even though her first reaction was to say "she read it some time ago" on the Signpost or "someplace"). Sound familiar, everyone?
There was no "mob" surrounding Durova that day in early 2007. She generated the mob, it fed her ego, and this is where she took it.
They are truly crazy over there in WikiCabalLand, and the only way we're going to dismantle their egotistical game is to CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION about Wikipedia. I have written to 10 different newspapers and to six different politicians today about this ugly incident and how it exposes Jimmy Wales as a manipulative jerk. This is the key, folks. Write your letters!
Greg
Posted by: Derktar
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th November 2007, 7:20pm)
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:06pm)
I'm not the least bit surprised that she resigned, personally, and I doubt that it was arranged... The simple fact of it is, she didn't have to resign at all — all she had to do was promise to stop portraying herself as some sort of "sock-hunting super-sleuth", given that she obviously wasn't good at it, and go back to doing regular admin duties — in which case, the whole thing would have eventually died down and relatively few people would have complained. Nobody forced her to ask Cary Bass to desysop her, and it's doubtful that the ArbCom would have done it either. And it's not as though her being a regular editor means they're going to kick her off the sooperseekrit mailing list.
If you ask me, Durova is probably some sort of depressive personality with a major chip on her shoulder. She's a perfectionist, and not the good kind of perfectionist who actually strives for perfection, but the bad kind who freaks out when perfection can't be achieved — and who then starts blaming others when things go wrong, and ultimately gives up completely at the first instance of an unfixable "stain" on her "perfect record".
I doubt she'll stand for another RfA, we eventually may not even see all that much of her again, period. She'll stick around to defend herself (again, by blaming others), but once that gets tiresome, the place will have lost all interest for her. Regular admin duties like reverting vandals and cleaning up articles just aren't enough for sock-hunting super-sleuths, I'm afraid.
I haven't been able to follow all of the posts on this and the 5 or 6 other threads devoted to the Durova Debacle, but just from my sample it seems that everyone has missed the more likely possibility that Durova got disciplined not for going ban-anas on Bamm-Bamm — I mean, really, where's the novelty in yet another ban-button mainliner going Koo-Koo 4 Koko-Puffs over dey ??? — but because she outed the existence of SlimVirgin's enemas list.
Jonny B)
Well that's my thought too, by sacrificing herself she may think the whole thing will blow over and everyone will forget about "the list."
Oh and Tony's comment on Durova's talk page is priceless:
QUOTE
You have acted according to the true meaning of "Wikipedia is not a battleground". Leading by example is hard, but rewarding. And a bit does not make or break a community leader. --Tony Sidaway 22:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, except she turned it into a battleground by banning a respected editor with the worst "evidence" imaginable.
Posted by: Piperdown
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Tue 27th November 2007, 3:20am)
I haven't been able to follow all of the posts on this and the 5 or 6 other threads devoted to the Durova Debacle, but just from my sample it seems that everyone has missed the more likely possibility that Durova got disciplined not for going ban-anas on Bamm-Bamm — I mean, really, where's the novelty in yet another ban-button mainliner going Koo-Koo 4 Koko-Puffs over dey ??? — but because she outed the existence of SlimVirgin's enemas list.
Jonny
Yup.
Durova = Scooter Libbey
Jajyg = Karl Rove
SlimVirgin = Rumsfeld
Jimbo = Bush
or for the older Chevrolet set:
Durvoa = G. Gordon Liddy
Jimbo = Nixon
etc...Brandt could do a better list here.
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th November 2007, 10:20pm)
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:06pm)
I'm not the least bit surprised that she resigned, personally, and I doubt that it was arranged... The simple fact of it is, she didn't have to resign at all — all she had to do was promise to stop portraying herself as some sort of "sock-hunting super-sleuth", given that she obviously wasn't good at it, and go back to doing regular admin duties — in which case, the whole thing would have eventually died down and relatively few people would have complained. Nobody forced her to ask Cary Bass to desysop her, and it's doubtful that the ArbCom would have done it either. And it's not as though her being a regular editor means they're going to kick her off the sooperseekrit mailing list.
If you ask me, Durova is probably some sort of depressive personality with a major chip on her shoulder. She's a perfectionist, and not the good kind of perfectionist who actually strives for perfection, but the bad kind who freaks out when perfection can't be achieved — and who then starts blaming others when things go wrong, and ultimately gives up completely at the first instance of an unfixable "stain" on her "perfect record".
I doubt she'll stand for another RfA, we eventually may not even see all that much of her again, period. She'll stick around to defend herself (again, by blaming others), but once that gets tiresome, the place will have lost all interest for her. Regular admin duties like reverting vandals and cleaning up articles just aren't enough for sock-hunting super-sleuths, I'm afraid.
I haven't been able to follow all of the posts on this and the 5 or 6 other threads devoted to the Durova Debacle, but just from my sample it seems that everyone has missed the more likely possibility that Durova got disciplined not for going ban-anas on Bamm-Bamm — I mean, really, where's the novelty in yet another ban-button mainliner going Koo-Koo 4 Koko-Puffs over dey ??? — but because she outed the existence of SlimVirgin's enemas list.
Jonny
Real spy trumps make-believe spy.
Posted by: Robster
QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 26th November 2007, 10:22pm)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&diff=prev&oldid=173961833.
"The mob" my arse.
So it's "the community" when majority opinion agrees, and "the mob" when majority opinion disagrees.
The elitists are showing their true scales, aren't they?
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Cache's Cabinet Picks —
Jimbo = Richard ("The Third") Nixon
Durova = Spiro T. Agnew
Jayjg and JzG = Ehrlichman and Haldeman (never could tell them apart)
SlimVirgin = Jeane Kirkpatrick (never could tell Nixon and Reagan apart either)
Jonny
Posted by: Somey
QUOTE(Derktar @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:25pm)
Well that's my thought too, by sacrificing herself she may think the whole thing will blow over and everyone will forget about "the list."
That just makes no sense to me, I'm afraid... I mean, the horses are out of the barn as far as these mailing lists are concerned, so it just seems like there's little to be gained from giving up her ability to see deleted articles and revisions, even if she doesn't really need to block anybody herself. In other words, the whole thing could have blown over anyway. All she had to do was promise to stay out of the witch-hunting game, and maybe disappear for a few weeks.
Whereas, if she's got this nutball image of herself as some sort of Badass Woman Detective, a la V.I. Warshawski or something, and doesn't want to play the Wikipedia MMORPG game unless she can have that particular role, then the whole thing does make sense, at least to me.
Call me crazy...
Posted by: everyking
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Tue 27th November 2007, 3:37am)
QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 27th November 2007, 1:17am)
with that admin receiving the disapproval of even the ArbCom, typically the reliable guardian of abusive admins.
Forgive me if I've missed a bit, but could you point me to some diffs where any members of ArbCom themselves disapproved of her actions? Some of them approved beforehand.
Well, I assumed that based on the speedy acceptance of the case and the proposed decision so far. "The evidence compiled by Durova, viewed as individual items and as a whole, was insufficient to justify blocking !! (talk · contribs) or taking any other action against him. No reasonable administrator would have blocked !! or taken any other action based on this evidence, nor was the block justified by any other available evidence." -- that seems pretty clear.
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:42pm)
Cache's Cabinet Picks —
Jimbo = Richard ("The Third") Nixon
Durova = Spiro T. Agnew
Jayjg and JzG = Ehrlichman and Haldeman (never could tell them apart)
SlimVirgin = Jeane Kirkpatrick (never could tell Nixon and Reagan apart either)
Jonny
You nailed Durova, but I'm not sure Jimbo is Nixon. Which is worse?
Durova as Spiro ("...nattering nabobs of negativity...")
OR
Jimbo as Marharishi Mahesh Yogi ("Why can't we all just love each other?")
I think Jimbo is worse, because casual reporters and observers (which is all we've got left in Amerika) cannot get a handle on Jimbo easily. You have to really dig into Wikipedia. When was the last time a reporter in this country did any digging?
Posted by: Piperdown
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th November 2007, 4:43am)
I think Jimbo is worse, because casual reporters and observers (which is all we've got left in Amerika) cannot get a handle on Jimbo easily. You have to really dig into Wikipedia. When was the last time a reporter in this country did any digging?
I think you'll recall what happened to the last time a top-notch sleuthing Columbia Journalism Review reporter did some digging into 'naked short selling'.
That reporter was very strongly encouraged not to do so any more.
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th November 2007, 4:43am)
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:42pm)
Cache's Cabinet Picks —
Jimbo = Richard ("The Third") Nixon
Durova = Spiro T. Agnew
Jayjg and JzG = Ehrlichman and Haldeman (never could tell them apart)
SlimVirgin = Jeane Kirkpatrick (never could tell Nixon and Reagan apart either)
Jonny
You nailed Durova, but I'm not sure Jimbo is Nixon. Which is worse?
Durova as Spiro ("...nattering nabobs of negativity...")
OR
Jimbo as Marharishi Mahesh Yogi ("Why can't we all just love each other?")
I think Jimbo is worse, because casual reporters and observers (which is all we've got left in Amerika) cannot get a handle on Jimbo easily. You have to really dig into Wikipedia. When was the last time a reporter in this country did any digging?
I don't see Durova as Agnew. The resignation is all they have in common. Agnew wasn't Tricky Dick's prized attack dog. I see Durova as one of the WG Plumbers.
I do think Agnew, or maybe Kissinger, is more akin to Baudy's role, though.
Deep Throat?
That remains to be played out. Who's going to step up, or has someone already done so?
Right now, Wales is playing Ronnie Reagan, ca. 1988, Iran-contra.
Posted by: The Joy
I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.
Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)
Posted by: Amarkov
QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm)
I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.
Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&curid=3018821&diff=174087465&oldid=174086736 there's something going on...
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
no, no, no, no. 
You've got her all wrong.
She's Karl (Du)ROVE(a)
Orchestrating minions and ministrations to forward agendas successfully....
...but ultimately managing to fuck things up so badly that a nation was driven to war on false pretenses, while outing its own very cleverly disguised spy gathering REAL data on WMD. Durova likewise killed many faithful contributors, with false accusations of evil-doer-dom.
She's Karl Rove™ I have said this before, and I want royalties and residuals.
Posted by: The Joy
QUOTE(Amarkov @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:32am)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm)
I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.
Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&curid=3018821&diff=174087465&oldid=174086736 there's something going on...
Wow.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(The Joy @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:06am)
QUOTE(Amarkov @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:32am)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:13pm)
I sometimes wonder when a Cabalist like Durova falls, that those other Cabalists who come to the fallen's talk page are not sympathizing with her... they are mocking her.
Durova: "Ah, Lord Cabal, I've blocked !! and outed the mailing lis... aaaacck! Aaak!"
Cabal: "You have failed us for the last time, Durova. Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal?"
Cabal: "Prepare the others for a major banning attack. You are in command now, Jehochman!"
Jehochman: "Yes, Lord Cabal!"
(Durova clutches her throat and falls as Jehochman nods his head for guards to dispose of her)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Durova&curid=3018821&diff=174087465&oldid=174086736 there's something going on...
Wow.
2nd the Wow.
Surely he said something to the effect of needing to get the hell away from this scandal. His real name and company got mired in this muck. He's a weasel himself, and just as sneaky and backhanded as she is. But it is perfectly expected that he'd betray her. That's what such people do. I'm surprised she deleted his edit, as to do so was so utterly revealing of the fact that he'd hurt her.
Well, well. She rode on his SEO coattails, and he on her admin coattails. No more.
The Dynamic Duo of joint Complex Investigations is no more.
He should have known better. But he is no better than she.
In Memorium
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
The only problem here is that people will think "she resigned" means "she's no longer on Wikipedia".
In reality, she'll be resysopped when no one is looking, just like TonySidaway.
He had the same "punishment" by Arbcom. (He quit under "suspicious circumstaces").
Which a few months later, meant nothing.
Its rigged.
Posted by: The Joy
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Tue 4th December 2007, 12:23pm)
The only problem here is that people will think "she resigned" means "she's no longer on Wikipedia".
In reality, she'll be resysopped when no one is looking, just like TonySidaway.
He had the same "punishment" by Arbcom. (He quit under "suspicious circumstaces").
Which a few months later, meant nothing.
Its rigged.
Tony got his bit back!?!
Oh, the incivility!
Posted by: Fox
I thought Tony Sidaway was required by Arbcom to pass RFA to get his bit back.
Posted by: BobbyBombastic
Tony Sidaway is not an admin.
Posted by: thekohser
Did anyone actually buy anything from the http://www.cafepress.com/Durovaforarbcom?
I just got my big-sized lapel button in the mail today. It looks fantastic. Maybe an eBay item for when Wikipedia shuts down in a couple of years. I checked my "Orders" report, and it looked like I was the only one to purchase anything.
You're lousy capitalists, Wikipedia Review.
Greg
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
You should never have admitted that.
Posted by: Joseph100
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Tue 4th December 2007, 9:06pm)
You should never have admitted that.
My Tribute to Durova....
The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Joseph100 @ Wed 5th December 2007, 5:48am)
The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.
I'm much more for the classics
Posted by: Joseph100
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Wed 5th December 2007, 7:24am)
QUOTE(Joseph100 @ Wed 5th December 2007, 5:48am)
The world is a better place with out the Durova's of the world making it suck more.
I'm much more for the classics
Agreed, but in keeping with the Web 2.0 theme, I figured it was more relevant.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
Web 2.0 is no excuse for dissing the classics!
Posted by: thekohser
You know what? I see that Jimbo has been repeatedly stating that it doesn't matter that Wikia.com hosted these "private, invitation-only" mailing lists comprised of influential Wikipedians.
Is it possible that he learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the Essjay scandal? I quote a key passage here:
QUOTE
When Essjay was hired by Wikia in January 2007, he made changes to his Wikia profile and "came clean on who he really was," identifying himself as Ryan Jordan.[20][21][22][23][24] Other Wikipedia editors questioned Essjay on his Wikipedia talk page about the apparent discrepancy between his new Wikia profile and his previously claimed credentials.[3][25] Essjay posted a detailed explanation in response to the first inquiry, stating that:
“ There are a number of trolls, stalkers, and psychopaths who wander around Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects looking for people to harass, stalk, and otherwise ruin the lives of (several have been arrested over their activities here)...You will eventually say something that will lead back to you, and the stalkers will find it...I decided to be myself, to never hide my personality, to always be who I am, but to utilize disinformation with regard to what I consider unimportant details: age, location, occupation, etc..." [3] â€
He later commented on his Wikipedia user page about having fooled Schiff by "doing a good job playing the part."[14]
“ There are a number of trolls, stalkers, and psychopaths who wander around Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects looking for people to harass, stalk, and otherwise ruin the lives of (several have been arrested over their activities here)...You will eventually say something that will lead back to you, and the stalkers will find it...I decided to be myself, to never hide my personality, to always be who I am, but to utilize disinformation with regard to what I consider unimportant details: age, location, occupation, etc..." [3] â€
He later commented on his Wikipedia user page about having fooled Schiff by "doing a good job playing the part."[14]
Essjay : Wikia : "I did it to evade the trolls and stalkers" :: Durova : Wikia-hosted Wpinvestigations-l : "We did it to evade the trolls and stalkers"
Seriously, nothing was learned. Correct?
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.
Greg
Posted by: Jonny Cache
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:30pm)
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.
Greg
Maybe they should found a Pathological Liars Club with Annual Picnics-Luaus, DeTestimonial Roasts, and Public Exhibitions of the Liar's Art —
Oh wait …
Jonny
Posted by: Moulton
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm)
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.
I don't believe either of your disjunctive alternatives, Greg.
To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).
That's my theory, Greg. I may be deluding myself in believing it, but until some better evidence comes along, it seems to be the most appropriate model to characterize Jimbo's beliefs and practices.
Posted by: Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 2:00pm)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm)
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.
I don't believe either of your disjunctive alternatives, Greg.
To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).
That's my theory, Greg. I may be deluding myself in believing it, but until some better evidence comes along, it seems to be the most appropriate model to characterize Jimbo's beliefs and practices.
Okay, we have one vote for the Maxwell Razor Theory Of Jimbo Mechanics.
You may say that you're a dreamer,
But I think you're the only one here.
Jonny
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 5th December 2007, 12:30pm)
Jimmy Wales has to be either the stupidest man or the worst pathological liar on the planet. I'm going with pathological liar. It's as if he can't HELP himself.
All three (and it is three, including the can't help self). Being stupid isn't the same thing as being unintelligent. Arrogance can shut off the clue-factor, in anyone. Esp. if they haven't a strong character to cope with flattering unction. Einstein had a great quote, Ill look up. Here it is:
QUOTE‘The only way to escape the personal corruption of praise is to go on working. One is tempted to stop and listen to it. The only thing is to turn away and go on working. Work. There is nothing else.’
— Albert Einstein
Also, JImbo's response isn't going unnoticed, even by non-Wikipedians.
QUOTE
http://www.gaymarketnews.com/2007/12/communications-crisis-wikipedia-woes.html - Gay Marketing Magazine, Wednesday, December 05, 2007
I worry that Jimbo Wales does not adequately grasp the key elements of PR communications crisis management though. His response to all this? An extremely glib http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive330
Ouch.
Posted by: Jonny Cache
¡¡¡ Man Durova Bored !!!
I do like the cool new avatar though …
Jonny
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 2:00pm)
To my mind, it's more likely that Jimbo (like most people) harbors some inaccurate beliefs. Kelly Martin suggested he was in denial (presumably meaning that he was failing to examine the evidence for and against his beliefs in a sufficiently diligent, conscientious, or scientific manner).
Denial is harder to see than emotional upset, because it's main tool is defence against unwanted information, and the person in denial is by definition unawares. Basically a person in denial would rather eradicate the messenger than admit the message. Everyone has a bit of denial, but it predominates for others. Jimbo probably had a weakness for denial, and he's allowed his fame to inflate himself far too much, to the extent that he's completely obnoxious around anyone he's not afraid of impressing - not to mention making unwise business choices.
You can't pull someone out of denial. It gets dealt with when it causes the person so many problems (from shoving things under the rug) that they have a huge life crisis,and have no choice to reevaluate (divorce, business failure, etc).
We've seen lots of textbook denial in the Durova case. From her defenders, but most significantly from Durova. It's sad and unsettling to watch. I'd feel sorry for her, if she weren't so destructive to others and unapologetic about it.
Posted by: Moulton
To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.
It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).
One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.
Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.
It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.
To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.
Posted by: Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 3:23pm)
To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.
It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).
One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.
Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.
It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.
To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.
One of the factors that makes con games so eternally pervasive in human bound-to-do-it-again-and-again-for-ages is a constant supply of marks, and one of the marks of a mark is a stubborn denial that some human beings really can be precisely the way that they obviously are.
Jon Awbrey
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm)
To me, it's more perplexing than saddening.
It's perplexing because I have so little understanding of the psychology of erratic leadership (notwithstanding the ubiquity of the phenomenon).
It is perplexing because it is counter-intuitive that intelligent people would behave so.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm)
One thing I admire about Jimbo is that he's not afraid to fail.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm)
Perhaps that's his primary method of learning.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm)
It also explains why those who predict his failure (e.g. Larry Sanger) have abandoned Jimbo's ship to set a different course.
QUOTE(Moulton @ Wed 5th December 2007, 1:23pm)
To Larry's credit, he is not laboring to cause the failure of Wikipedia.
Posted by: Moulton
By failure, I mean undeniable failure.
Most people wince at criticism, even when they know it's coming from an authoritative source. But he plows ahead even in the face of plausible criticism. He plows ahead until failure is a realized outcome, not just a prediction. That tells me he values direct experience over analytical reasoning or model-based reasoning.