SlimVirgin, Zeq, and Zero, Split from 'Tactics of the Master Baiters' Options

[Heat]

SV has a double standard on outing, just as she has on POV pushing, 3RR, sockpuppeteering, canvassing, meatpuppetry and most wikicrimes. If her friends like Proaby, Zeq, Jayjg, FeloniousMonk (or herself) do it then it's ok and excusable. If someone she dislikes or who is on the wrong side of a political issue does it then it's a capital crime.

Oh, I forgot to mention a double standard on proxy IPs and CheckUser abuse.

And yet she hasn't told everyone your incredibly relevent on-wiki name, has she? Perhaps you're wrong, eh?

No, what I was actually referring to above is her indifference to both Proaby and Zeq's outing behaviour as well as their stalking. SlimVirgin virtually invented the term "wikistalking" yet she casts a blind eye to two of the most dogged and vicious purveyors of the practice. In both cases she intervened to try to get their blocks lifted, she was successful with Zeq (largely because she was still an admin and a "respected user") and failed with Proaby (because she is now neither). SV has often insisted that anyone who outs a WP user should be summarily banned but she clearly has a double standard when it comes to those two.

This post has been edited by Heat: Tue 21st April 2009, 10:50pm

[The Adversary]

SV has a double standard on outing, just as she has on POV pushing, 3RR, sockpuppeteering, canvassing, meatpuppetry and most wikicrimes. If her friends like Proaby, Zeq, Jayjg, FeloniousMonk (or herself) do it then it's ok and excusable. If someone she dislikes or who is on the wrong side of a political issue does it then it's a capital crime.

Oh, I forgot to mention a double standard on proxy IPs and CheckUser abuse.

Seen from SV point of view, Zeq was an excellent editor. He was instrumental in ridding Wikipedia of two of her opponents, Zero, and one of the editors he started an attack-article on.

Zeq´s third victim has become, AFAIK, the victim of the worst stalking/harrassing ever to take place on Wikipedia. I am of course referring to the victim of the socalled Runtshit-vandal. 883 cases, and still counting. In all: many many thousands of obscene/harrassing edits. Mostly done during day-time European/Israeli time.
The Runtshit-vandal has been linked to a named guy at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem. (Ask Jayjg )
Funny, isn´t it, that admins could block whole neighbourhoods, or people in Japan(!) trying to stop Wordbomb. But what is being done to stop the Runtshit-vandal? <shrug>

I was in touch with Zero by email about this block, and he knew it wouldn't stand. He was just making the point that he had a right to defend himself, and I agreed with that, and said so at the time. But it's clearly absurd to indefblock someone for mentioning that you went on holiday, with no identifying details. What was I meant to say to Zeq when he requested an unblock? "No, you said the word 'holiday,' which is personal, so be off with you?" Or perhaps, "No, you're an Israeli with a politically incorrect POV, so you can bugger right off"?

You're leaving something out. In the instigating edit (admins only), Zeq speaks as if he knows exactly where Zero went, and therefore knows his real-life identity.

Now, I believe that anonymity and administration of a top ten website are incompatible; this is why I rarely edit and never administrate any more. I'm aware that this view is not widespread; Wikipedia policy is to come down like a collapsing mountain on anyone who even hints at outing another editor. (Witness WordBomb.) Since you are one of the architects and enforcers of that policy, it's disingenuous to claim that Zeq was blocked simply for using the word 'holiday', especially because he did not use that word; his post, under the heading "Welcome Back", was "How was [the place that he believed Zero had been]?".

Oldtimers here on WR are shocked, shocked that ms. Hell did not give a quite correct full summary of the situation.

[Krimpet]

Perhaps you can explain your relationship with a more recent harasser, Proabiviouac, and why you attempted to get him unblocked after he outed Krimpet and her family?

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

[EricBarbour]

Perhaps you can explain your relationship with a more recent harasser, Proabiviouac, and why you attempted to get him unblocked after he outed Krimpet and her family?

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

Third....

[Tarc]

I unblocked Zeq first and foremost because he asked me to.

Yes, that is the heart of the matter; you unblocked Zeq and protected him on numerous occasions because he was a loyal foot soldier for you and Jayjg. Every time that puke worked himself into a frothing tizzy on one article or another and found himself opposed by more than one editor working to undo his Arab-hating, broken Engrish, he ran to one of you two. All those stupid "FYI"-titled talk page sections with a link to the latest conservative-tinged babbling that he wanted help getting into the project.

Your continued coddling and protection of the little shitstain just emboldened him to continue this atrocious behavior, culminating in his specific targeting of me in the CAMERA affair. If admins like Zero had been allowed to call a spade a spade and ban people like Zeq years ago, it would've saved a lot of future problems.

[The Adversary]

Perhaps you can explain your relationship with a more recent harasser, Proabiviouac, and why you attempted to get him unblocked after he outed Krimpet and her family?

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

Third....

Fourth...if this is indeed true. But I would like some diffs, folks? (Sorry for being too lazy to dig them up myself) (Hey, and welcome back, Krimpet!)

[Somey]

Fourth...if this is indeed true. But I would like some diffs, folks? (Sorry for being too lazy to dig them up myself)

You won't find (m)any diffs - SV's talk page was deleted at some point after mid-June of last year, and I don't believe she commented on Proabivouac-related issues anywhere else.

Some of you may not remember this, but Proabivouac started out on Wikipedia working almost exclusively on articles related to Islam, and as a non-Islamic sorta guy, he got into a number of disputes with editors whom he considered biased and/or apologistic in favor of Islamic orthodoxy, etc. In most cases he was perfectly justified in accusing them of bias, but he also (twice, IIRC) reverted the removal of images depicting Muhammad, which I suspect is what really pissed them off. I think that may have been his original reason for registering here on WR, in fact.

Anyway, that somehow eventually led to his involvement with the Antisemitism (T-H-L-K-D) article, which included several reverts back to versions preferred by Jayjg & Co., and the rest was wikihistory, as they say. It's doubtful that those reverts, etc., represented collusion between them - certainly not at first - but they did start to take his side in other disputes after that.

[Heat]

Diff, as requested http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=251294011

Regarding your suggestion that people e-mail the blocking admin, my experience of ArbCom is that it's very hard to get them to reply to e-mails. For example, Kirill Lokshin indefblocked Proabivouac a few weeks ago. I e-mailed Kirill to ask in what circumstances he would agree to an unblock, and he simply ignored me. How should an admin proceed in a case like that, in your view? <font color="Brown">[[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]]</font> <small>^{<font color="darkgreen">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|talk|]]</font><font color="Light green">[[Special:Contributions/SlimVirgin|edits]]</font>}</small> 07:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

This post has been edited by Heat: Tue 28th April 2009, 8:28pm

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Perhaps you can explain your relationship with a more recent harasser, Proabiviouac, and why you attempted to get him unblocked after he outed Krimpet and her family?

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

Third....

Ms. Hell is generally not one for answering questions here at the Review, and on top of that, I think her attention may well have been diverted back to WP where she awaits her impending re-sysopping.

[Kato]

Some of you may not remember this, but Proabivouac started out on Wikipedia working almost exclusively on articles related to Islam, and as a non-Islamic sorta guy, he got into a number of disputes with editors whom he considered biased and/or apologistic in favor of Islamic orthodoxy, etc. In most cases he was perfectly justified in accusing them of bias, but he also (twice, IIRC) reverted the removal of images depicting Muhammad, which I suspect is what really pissed them off. I think that may have been his original reason for registering here on WR, in fact.

The reason Proab joined this site was because he was under attack here from that Alienus guy, and Proab came to defend himself.

[Krimpet]

Ms. Hell is generally not one for answering questions here at the Review, and on top of that, I think her attention may well have been diverted back to WP where she awaits her impending re-sysopping.

Well, it's lovely to see the Usher/Petrofsky Gossip Team has such enthusiastic support, isn't it. (I still wonder sometimes to this day which oversighter conveniently leaked my old user page to them, though it isn't hard to guess, I'm sure.)

Personally, I'm glad to have gone cold turkey and left the filthy bureaucratic morass that is Wikipedia. I've found bird-watching to be a much more rewarding hobby.

This post has been edited by Krimpet: Thu 30th April 2009, 7:09am

[Alison]

Well, it's lovely to see the Usher/Petrofsky Gossip Team has such enthusiastic support, isn't it.

Is that Al Petrofsky, by any chance? Wow ....

(I still wonder sometimes to this day which oversighter conveniently leaked my old user page to them, though it isn't hard to guess, I'm sure.)

Well, it certainly wasn't me

Personally, I'm glad to have gone cold turkey and left the filthy bureaucratic morass that is Wikipedia.

That makes two of us, so

[JohnA]

And thus; irony and lack of self-awareness continues unabated.

Just admit it. There's no good or bad behaviour on WP, no right or wrong behaviour, no blockable or non-blockable behaviour. It's merely about who you are, who your friends are, and which mood you are in at a given time. If you've worked yourself up to the position of Grand Wazoo with powerful friends, and are in a certain mood, you can control proceedings by fiat, with vague justifications made after the point. Rookies, the naive, or the less time laden participants don't stand a chance.

That's the whole reason why people were complaining bitterly about Jossi, LaRouche, Gnetworker, Mantanmoreland, Iron Duke and scores of other episodes.

Almost everyone here has the sense that decisions were made on an uneven, arbitrary basis, dependent on whims rather than due process.

So people like Zeq, Jossi and Iron Duke got to walk and were supported, while others were badly mistreated. Many of us believe that the roots of this dysfunction stem from Wikipedia Social Network environment. Important decisions were being made not for the benefit of "knowledge" or any kind of productive process, but were due to Social Grooming.

If you check this SlimVirgin archived talk page, one can find Zeq, Jossi and Iron Duke all involved in the grooming process. Each of them giving SlimVirgin the heads-up on the same page. And that's how those editors got to flout Wikipedia norms for so long without challenge. They got "protection" from controlling figures in exchange for their loyalty. Outsiders were thrown to the dogs.

These examples are the definition of cronyism and systemic corruption. You cannot create the "Sum of Human Knowledge" through a process of cronyism and corruption without causing massive problems. What we see now on WR are the fruits of that wholesale disruption.

Listen to the man. You're absolutely spot on with that observation, Kato.

While WP has no formal editorial board or publisher and no-one to appeal to apart from the God-King or the anarchic mob, then the winners will be people like Sarah McEwan/Linda Mack/Slimvirgin who game the system entirely to service their personal prejudices and petty vendettas.

[Piperdown]

SV has a double standard on outing, just as she has on POV pushing, 3RR, sockpuppeteering, canvassing, meatpuppetry and most wikicrimes. If her friends like Proaby, Zeq, Jayjg, FeloniousMonk (or herself) do it then it's ok and excusable. If someone she dislikes or who is on the wrong side of a political issue does it then it's a capital crime.

she was quite happy to participate in the outing of Sparkzilla, and even ban him for an outed "conflict of interest" even after he offered to edit only a talk page under his name.

why?

cuz sparky pissed her off.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Thu 30th April 2009, 11:46am

[Son of a Yeti]

The reason Proab joined this site was because he was under attack here from that Alienus guy, and Proab came to defend himself.

Didn't Proab turn out to be a reincarnation of a previously banned user? This is at least how I remember it. I found it extremely hilarious as he always accused random people of being someone's sockpuppets.

I believe it is called projection in psychology.

[Milton Roe]

Diff, as requested http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=251294011

Regarding your suggestion that people e-mail the blocking admin, my experience of ArbCom is that it's very hard to get them to reply to e-mails. For example, Kirill Lokshin indefblocked Proabivouac a few weeks ago. I e-mailed Kirill to ask in what circumstances he would agree to an unblock, and he simply ignored me. How should an admin proceed in a case like that, in your view? <font color="Brown">[[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]]</font> <small>^{<font color="darkgreen">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|talk|]]</font><font color="Light green">[[Special:Contributions/SlimVirgin|edits]]</font>}</small> 07:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

If SlimVirgin doesn't know what to do in such a case, I doubt anybody does. Since she herself is justly famous for ignoring and even reverting people seeking explanations of her admin actions, on her own TALK page. Finally she managed to just delete the whole TALK page and archives, since it was a such a goldmine for people adding up instances in which she was less-than-helpful when it came to some administrative action of her own. Considerably irony above. Or hypocrisy appearing as irony, depending on your point of view.

[Cla68]

Diff, as requested http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=251294011

Regarding your suggestion that people e-mail the blocking admin, my experience of ArbCom is that it's very hard to get them to reply to e-mails. For example, Kirill Lokshin indefblocked Proabivouac a few weeks ago. I e-mailed Kirill to ask in what circumstances he would agree to an unblock, and he simply ignored me. How should an admin proceed in a case like that, in your view? <font color="Brown">[[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]]</font> <small>^{<font color="darkgreen">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|talk|]]</font><font color="Light green">[[Special:Contributions/SlimVirgin|edits]]</font>}</small> 07:46, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

If SlimVirgin doesn't know what to do in such a case, I doubt anybody does. Since she herself is justly famous for ignoring and even reverting people seeking explanations of her admin actions, on her own TALK page. Finally she managed to just delete the whole TALK page and archives, since it was a such a goldmine for people adding up instances in which she was less-than-helpful when it came to some administrative action of her own. Considerably irony above. Or hypocrisy appearing as irony, depending on your point of view.

Well, I'm not sure if that's fair. I looked into that and found the Crum375 deleted her user talk page to remove a vicous personal attack and accidentally deleted the entire history. I don't think he did it on purpose. The problem I have with it is that he doesn't appear to have tried very hard to fix it. I think a minimum of acceptable behavior would be for him to try to fix his own mess. Someone should have told him that until he restored it all that he wasn't allowed to do any other kind of editing.

[Milton Roe]

Well, I'm not sure if that's fair. I looked into that and found the Crum375 deleted her user talk page to remove a vicous personal attack and accidentally deleted the entire history. I don't think he did it on purpose. The problem I have with it is that he doesn't appear to have tried very hard to fix it. I think a minimum of acceptable behavior would be for him to try to fix his own mess. Someone should have told him that until he restored it all that he wasn't allowed to do any other kind of editing.

Ya think?

What kind of command would delete all somebody's TALK page archives, beyond recovery, in one fell swoop?

Come on, Cla68. SV has been simply removing embarassing stuff from her TALK pages, no archives.

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=275435515

For a long time she has not only erased stuff with the edit diff of "archiving" (when no archive got it), but she does the same for people wondering where the stuff went. Here's a bit Aug 2007 from Android Mouse wondering where the stuff she said she'd archived went, and she deleted THAT question, and the diff note says "archiving" But still no archive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=149703789

At some point ElinorD helpfully explains that one cannot just delete a few trolls on your talk page and then move on. No, you must delete THE WHOLE THING and then put back only what you want. Really. In case you didn't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=150509457

[Cla68]

Well, I'm not sure if that's fair. I looked into that and found the Crum375 deleted her user talk page to remove a vicous personal attack and accidentally deleted the entire history. I don't think he did it on purpose. The problem I have with it is that he doesn't appear to have tried very hard to fix it. I think a minimum of acceptable behavior would be for him to try to fix his own mess. Someone should have told him that until he restored it all that he wasn't allowed to do any other kind of editing.

Ya think?

What kind of command would delete all somebody's TALK page archives, beyond recovery, in one fell swoop?

Come on, Cla68. SV has been simply removing embarassing stuff from her TALK pages, no archives.

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=275435515

For a long time she has not only erased stuff with the edit diff of "archiving" (when no archive got it), but she does the same for people wondering where the stuff went. Here's a bit Aug 2007 from Android Mouse wondering where the stuff she said she'd archived went, and she deleted THAT question, and the diff note says "archiving" But still no archive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=149703789

At some point ElinorD helpfully explains that one cannot just delete a few trolls on your talk page and then move on. No, you must delete THE WHOLE THING and then put back only what you want. Really. In case you didn't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=150509457

Well, for the stuff that was admin deleted, unless it revealed personal information, then, as far as I understand the policies, it shouldn't have been deleted without passing through an MfD. I think this needs to be resolved.

As far as I know, there's no policy that says you have to archive your userpage. I thought SV was archiving her page, but just not linking to the archive.

SV?HFO, were you deleting edits, saying that they were archived, without actually archiving them? If so, why? Also, when will your userpage history be restored? Have you asked Crum375 lately what's taking him so long to restore all the content that he deleted?

This post has been edited by Cla68: Fri 1st May 2009, 6:25am

[EricBarbour]

Ask her all the questions you want. I doubt she's coming back soon--
she hasn't logged into WR since the 28th.

Assuming they weren't bullshitting when she was desysopped, she should not get her
power back until May 26. But who knows, perhaps they offered her "early parole", esp.
since it's quite likely that Jpgordon, Crum and Jayjg have been pressuring people to
let her back in.....