BI Bardcom Options Rating

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Get a load of this editor. Yes, it's British Isles Bardcom. This guy has had it in for the British Isles for a while now, but has been losing arguments about getting rid of the article. So what's he doing about it? He's delinking it! Yes, this anti-British Leprechaun from Dublin is trawling the entire encyclopedia and removing every reference he finds to the British Isles. He's been at it for months now and so far has removed several hundred links to the main article. There's no stopping him. Every reason under the sun is given for getting rid of the dreaded term. Some of them are quite laughable. Sometimes he claims OR, often there's no reference, so out it goes. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Funny thing is, it seems that Wikipedia is supporting him in this anti-British POV. A few have tried to stop him, but none have so far succeeded. Old Bardy has the world's longest watchlist - he watches EVERY article he's ever had the pleasure of removing British Isles from, and if anyone is foolish enough to re-instate it he calls them a vandal and threatens to block them. Not that he's an admin you understand. Not yet, anyway, but he seems lke suitable material. Oh yes, and there's the ad hominem (or ad homineN as he likes to call it) attack, that everyone whose had any dealings with him has been accused of.

Right now he's facing an RfA and he's also had an RfC, but he breezed through that and looks like doing the same with the RfA. He's so far managed to deflect all criticism and continues on his quest to rid the world of the British Isles. Reckon it'll be September time when the main article doesn't link to anything anymore, then it can go as well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

But there's good sport to be had here. At his most prodigious the old bugger gets rid of one BI link a minute and it's hard to keep up the reverts, but why not give it a go. Next time you spot him on a campaign revert his changes as fast as he's making them. You end up with dozens of simultaneous edit wars; it's bloody good fun I can tell you. But then you get banned, like I did. So do it as an IP. That really gets him going.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bardcom

[Enric_Naval]

You broke ANI!

I also like how Bardcom is just trying to get British Isles to be used only as a geographical term, while TheKartingWikipedian is misrepresenting that by saying that Bardcom is plain out removing the term from everywhere, which is not correct. I dunno how many other facts you might have gotten wrong.

Anyways, an Arbcom case has been opened on the matter, and this means that this will be solved fairly, because Arbcom always gets all its stuff right, right? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Fix'ed. Thanks, Milton.

This post has been edited by Enric_Naval:

[Milton Roe]

You broke ANI!

I also like how Bardcom is just trying to get British Isles to be used only as a geographical term, while TheKartingWikipedian is misrepresenting that by saying that Bardcom is plain out removing the term from everywhere, which is not correct. I dunno how many other facts you might have gotten wrong.

Anyways, an Arbcom case has been opened on the matter, and this means that this will be solved fairly, because Arbcom always gets all its stuff right, right? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

I think you mean you broke ANI. Fix the link.

[dogbiscuit]

Note that Bardcom sites Wikipedia Review as a reason for his action coming to light - yet he does not deny it is what he is doing, just that what he is doing is not an obsessive one man campaign.

I wonder what other obsessives are slowly going around corrupting others work? What would a historian do in 100 years time if they tried to use Wikipedia as some form of snapshot of world opinion of the early 21st century?

[wikiwhistle]

Bardcom's been blocked again for his British Isles insertions edit warring. This time for 24 hours.

[Moulton]

Note that Bardcom sites Wikipedia Review as a reason for his action coming to light - yet he does not deny it is what he is doing, just that what he is doing is not an obsessive one man campaign.

I wonder what other obsessives are slowly going around corrupting others work? What would a historian do in 100 years time if they tried to use Wikipedia as some form of snapshot of world opinion of the early 21st century?

An historian might conclude that Wikipedia was dominated by an ad hoc ochlocracy comprised of anankastic antagonists.

[ComeGetMe]

Bardcom's been blocked again for his British Isles insertions edit warring. This time for 24 hours.

Methinks Bardcom has made some enemies....

He's saying he shouldn't have been blocked - that the 3rd edit wasn't a revert. Ha ha - I'm off to get some popcorn and watch the fun...

[guy]

Welcome, ComeGetMe.

[Milton Roe]

Note that Bardcom sites Wikipedia Review as a reason for his action coming to light - yet he does not deny it is what he is doing, just that what he is doing is not an obsessive one man campaign.

I wonder what other obsessives are slowly going around corrupting others work? What would a historian do in 100 years time if they tried to use Wikipedia as some form of snapshot of world opinion of the early 21st century?

With the intelligence and computational power of that far into the future, considering Moore's law, individual editing styles of individual minds of today will be about as obvious as a mother being able to tell, with her eyes shut and half asleep, which of her kids is crying and how badly they've been hurt. And the various editorical changes will be about as complex to read and easy to follow as the crayon scriblings of a 5 year-old on your wallpaper. So far as anything recorded goes, we textual analysis amateurs, with our limited time and resources, now see through a glass darkly-- but so long as it's preserved to history, all will be clear as day to the computers and minds of tomorrow. It would be sort of like having the computers at today's NSA break Enigma-- an afternoon's coding. Unfortunately, there are consequences to being able to do it in approximate "real-time" in 1943 instead of 2008. Some damage is being done now on WP that can't be undone. If somebody leaves the project NOW, THAT article never does get written. When it is finally written, it's not the same one. Meanwhile it isn't there to influence something else. A butterfly effect.

MR

This post has been edited by Milton Roe:

[Dzonatas]

This is very interesting.

93.107.68.59 makes an edit to change the British Isles text in an article. If you look at that IPs contributions, then you will notice several of the same changes.

ThrankunColl calls it vandalism:

Please stop vandalising pages by imposing political viewpoints on them. Otherwise you will be reported for sockpuppetry. TharkunColl 14:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

On the RFAR appear, Flonight makes an assertion that appears to include such comment as above by TharkunColl:

Accusations of wikistalking, misuse of edit summaries, labeling another user's edits as vandalism are several problems I noticed when taking a quick look. Likely that these issues are preventing the resolution of the content dispute. FloNight♥♥♥ 13:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The heart of the dispute, on the RFAR:

Statement by Kendrick7

This is rather silly. They haven't been the British Isles since 1919. That Americans still lazily refer to them as such is simply a reflection of our own ignorance of European history. I applaud any editor fighting such ignorance; if this appears to be an "obsession" it's only because the anachronism is so widespread among our pages. -- Kendrick7 05:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Statement by Bastun

A quick read of the article and its associated articles and talk pages clearly shows User:Kendrick7 is incorrect - the term is still in use worldwide, including by a minority on the island of Ireland (and I've just reverted his change to the lede of the BI article making it 'past tense').

On the RfA itself - User:Bardcom does seem to have an issue with the term and does try to eliminate it from many articles, some removals being dubious, some being valid, in my opinion. But its a content dispute and certainly not yet appropriate for an RfA. Bastun 09:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

There is some related history in The Trouble case, but I only glanced at that one, so far.

WMC's involvement in this relates to another event with
93.107.68.59, subthread link.

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

Is there a WR-Popcorn fund?

[wikiwhistle]

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

The term is still widely in use in the UK/England, and it's not inaccurate. Just arguably it's a geographical, rather than a political term.

Bardcom does often change the term without even looking if his edit makes sense or is factual. See here as one of many instances. He changes British Isles to England wih a spurious reason, one can only think he sort of gets 'on a roll' and goes on a rampage of doing it.

93.thingy was Goldheart though, not Bardcom.

[Dzonatas]

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

The term is still widely in use in the UK/England, and it's not inaccurate. Just arguably it's a geographical, rather than a political term.

Bardcom does often change the term without even looking if his edit makes sense or is factual. See here as one of many instances. He changes British Isles to England wih a spurious reason, one can only think he sort of gets 'on a roll' and goes on a rampage of doing it.

Hmmm, and the side panel even shows the location as "England," too. Does anybody else think that edit by Calton, to change it to BI, looks like WP:OR? There is only one secondary source listed for the first paragraph of the article and the external links (mainly primary sources). That change is in the second paragraph that has no citation.

This post has been edited by Dzonatas:

[Gold heart]

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

The term is still widely in use in the UK/England, and it's not inaccurate. Just arguably it's a geographical, rather than a political term.

Bardcom does often change the term without even looking if his edit makes sense or is factual. See here as one of many instances. He changes British Isles to England wih a spurious reason, one can only think he sort of gets 'on a roll' and goes on a rampage of doing it.

93.thingy was Goldheart though, not Bardcom.

You make a charge of "spurious", without even making a case, typically Wikipedia-ish. What is spurious about his edit in that particular instance. All he is doing is editing and encyclopedia and correcting instances of the term British Isles, a relic of a term from a dead empire. But the "empire" may not be totally dead yet, the British Isles Brigade are quick on Bardcom's heels, and wildly snapping. Think it's going to ArbCom soon, before it sinks Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[guy]

The trouble is that there's no simple alternative to the term "British Isles" if you want to mean The United Kingdom, the Irish Republic, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles. Many Irish people say "these islands", but you can't very well use that phrase in an encyclopaedic article to be read in America.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

The trouble is that there's no simple alternative to the term "British Isles" if you want to mean The United Kingdom, the Irish Republic, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles. Many Irish people say "these islands", but you can't very well use that phrase in an encyclopaedic article to be read in America.

Would that be "in America -- for example"?

[guy]

Would that be "in America -- for example"?

If you wish. Obviously it would make equally little sense in Uzbekistan. However, I believe that there will be more readers of the English Wikipedia in America.

[Gold heart]

The trouble is that there's no simple alternative to the term "British Isles" if you want to mean The United Kingdom, the Irish Republic, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles. Many Irish people say "these islands", but you can't very well use that phrase in an encyclopaedic article to be read in America.

This is where some lateral thinking comes in, Ireland and Britain don't have to have a collective name. Sardinia and Corsica don't have a collective name, even though they are right beside each other. The Japanese Archipelago excludes islands that belong to Russia, and there is no collective name for the islands around Iceland or NewZeland for that matter. So the term British Isles was correct until 1922 when Ireland ceded interest in remaining with Britain in the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", what a mouthful. Out of mutual respect, and in conjunction of parity that Europe & EU offers, if the islands need to be called by a collective noun, then it should be "The British and Irish Isles". Most people from Ireland say "Britain & Ireland", alphabetically to show no bias, and biggest first too. Map-makers rarely use the term anymore, and it is avoided by the American Administration, the British Administration, and naturally by The Irish Administration amongst others. Barcom's substantive point is that the term is being used in an incorrect manner, and that is why he is making the changes.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

if the islands need to be called by a collective noun, then it should be "The British and Irish Isles".

Maybe it should. I wouldn't object. It's still a bit of a mouthful, but what the hell. Point is though, it isn't called that. It's called British Isles, like it or not. Wikipedia isn't the place to try and influence these matters. Please show me where, anywhere, it was agreed, by anyone, that BI ceased to exist in 1922.

Oh no, this is getting like a Wikiepdia Talk page. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Forget that last sentence.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Tell you what, he's a tenacious old bugger is Bardy. Have you seen his Talk page; he just won't give in to this block. Next thing the numbskull admins 'll be blocking his Talk as well. That happened to me when I was blocked for turning over a series of Bardy's edits. Could I persuade them to unblock me - not on your black and white telly! And I was completely in the right. The no-nothing blighters just would not listen, but then, admins, so what do you expect.

Give it up Bardy. You'll be back on tomorrow anyway. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

Tell you what, he's a tenacious old bugger is Bardy. Have you seen his Talk page; he just won't give in to this block. Next thing the numbskull admins 'll be blocking his Talk as well. That happened to me when I was blocked for turning over a series of Bardy's edits. Could I persuade them to unblock me - not on your black and white telly! And I was completely in the right. The no-nothing blighters just would not listen, but then, admins, so what do you expect.

Give it up Bardy. You'll be back on tomorrow anyway. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

If/ when he finally gets blocked indef maybe they'll let you back (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

The term is still widely in use in the UK/England, and it's not inaccurate. Just arguably it's a geographical, rather than a political term.

Bardcom does often change the term without even looking if his edit makes sense or is factual. See here as one of many instances. He changes British Isles to England wih a spurious reason, one can only think he sort of gets 'on a roll' and goes on a rampage of doing it.

93.thingy was Goldheart though, not Bardcom.

Well I agree with Bardy on that one, if its true that theres only temples in England and none anywhere else. If theres a temple in Ireland anywhere ok, I agree with Calton.

And how do we knoe Goldheart isnt Bardcom? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dzonatas]

Would that be "in America -- for example"?

If you wish. Obviously it would make equally little sense in Uzbekistan. However, I believe that there will be more readers of the English Wikipedia in America.

I kinda took those thoughts as comparison of terms between the dispute of the Isles and the Americas.

Would on say that Salt Lake Temple is the oldest mormon temple in all of the Americas just because it is the oldest in North America?

Would on say it is the oldest on Earth?

Instead of different versions of one sentence that either state largest in X or the largest in Y, there may be instances where both need to be combined in some way. The largest in the X and Y. It appears that there is some wording to solve it that may be a mouthful, but this is written words that require no mouth to move where fingers do the work instead.

The temple is the oldest in North America[1], and it is the only temple known to have existed on the entire Earth when it was created[2].

That solves one issue, but there is another issue to address old terms with newer terms.

The temple is the oldest in North America[1], and it is the only temple known to have existed on the entire Earth when it was created[2]. It is also said to be the oldest in the Americas.[3]

We don't see much of a word dispute between calling something North America or Americas as we see with the British Isles or the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. I can imagine, in comparison of the dispute, someone will make another version of the above, like:

The temple is the oldest in Americas[3], and it is the only temple known to have existed on the entire Earth when it was created[2]. It is also said to be the oldest in the North America.[1]

Later, someone else will make another revision and delete the last sentence as superfluous, and drops the source.

The temple is the oldest in Americas[3], and it is the only temple known to have existed on the entire Earth when it was created[2].

Again, much later, were back to somebody else pointing out a source that says North America instead of Americas, and makes the change:

The temple is the oldest in North America[1], and it is the only temple known to have existed on the entire Earth when it was created[2].

At this point, we can see the whole thing becomes circular. People get frustrated because everybody is right. The circle continues until someone gets banned, and that banned user gets labeled with "disruptive troll" (a BLP issue), which makes the whole situation even worse. One of the edits was done by the banned user, so it gets removed in some end justify the means shout out:

The temple is the oldest in North America[1].

Kids are now wondering why just North America. There were 3 references that they could have studied, but now they are down to just one when they look at the article. Not only does the banned user suffer, but Wikipedia suffers for lack of references. That is where Wikipedia becomes more of a MMORPG and need a serious reality check.

And how do we knoe Goldheart isnt Bardcom? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

How do we know Gold Heart isn't SirFozzie and Bardcom isn't Alison?

This post has been edited by Dzonatas:

[LessHorrid vanU]

Would that be "in America -- for example"?

If you wish. Obviously it would make equally little sense in Uzbekistan. However, I believe that there will be more readers of the English Wikipedia in America.

Ah, yes... but what do you mean by "America"? Both continents plus the central bit? North America (and is that just the USA and Canada, or are you including Mexico?) only or simply the United States of America. See, if you put the dispute over British Isles (which include the Isle of Man - but not the Channel Isles) in a context of removing everything that is declared "American" - like the recent FA regarding REM, since do they play Peruvian nose flutes - because it is "incorrect" terminology you might see how a supposed rule applying motive is just a means to advance a political viewpoint.

The irony is, of course, that "Britain" is not a English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh concept anyway - but a Roman derived continental terminology regarding the once similarity of southern ''English" (for want of a better term) to the Celts of Breton. The British Isles were the Island group of the Breton type peoples - which, being Celt, would have included Ireland, Wales and Scotland (and Cornwall/Kernow for all you Celtic Nations folks). Britain, as a political ethnic grouping, only became apparent with the merging of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland - wherin the tribal backgrounds were mixes of Celts, Angles, Picts (and Scots), Saxons, Danes, and various other immigrants/invaders. Ireland, even with major populations of Pictish Scottish and Danish/Swedish Viking ancestory, was possibly the most "British" (ie. Celtic) of all the old kingdoms, principalities and Dukedoms, so it is amusing to have a Irish editor attempting to remove "imperialist/oppressor" links when it could be argued his nation is the most truly British Isle of all.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

How do we know Gold Heart isn't SirFozzie and Bardcom isn't Alison?

Don't know about SirFozzie, but with the other comparison we know because Bardcom's a man and Alison's a woman (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

He's still at it folks. It's Bardcom versus Mr Bumptious at the moment. They'd be better off over here. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Dzonatas]

Don't know about SirFozzie, but with the other comparison we know because Bardcom's a man and Alison's a woman (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Joan of Arc is a woman, too!

[ComeGetMe]

How do we know Gold Heart isn't SirFozzie and Bardcom isn't Alison?

Don't know about SirFozzie, but with the other comparison we know because Bardcom's a man and Alison's a woman (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

He's still at it folks. It's Bardcom versus Mr Bumptious at the moment. They'd be better off over here. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

I'm backing bumptious if only cos admins always win and theres like 4 admins all over Bardy at the mo.

I'm nearly out of popcorn too. What about Bardys point that one of his edits wasnt a revert cos he didn't restore an earlier page. Or is that wikilawyering?

How do you know Bardy is a man?

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[Gold heart]

Tell you what, he's a tenacious old bugger is Bardy. Have you seen his Talk page; he just won't give in to this block. Next thing the numbskull admins 'll be blocking his Talk as well. That happened to me when I was blocked for turning over a series of Bardy's edits. Could I persuade them to unblock me - not on your black and white telly! And I was completely in the right. The no-nothing blighters just would not listen, but then, admins, so what do you expect.

Give it up Bardy. You'll be back on tomorrow anyway. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

William Connolley is now accusing Abd of being a sock. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

See here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wil...y#Polite_notice

Thanks. I'm starting to wonder about Abd... the threats about trashing admin bits seem absurd rather than threatening, but its unpleasant behaviour. I wonder if its sock time yet again? William M. Connolley (talk) 19:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Whizz!! Is there any end to his intrigue? The plot thickens! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)


This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[wikiwhistle]

This RFAR makes it look like 93.107.68.59 actually fixed it to modern terms, but the dispute is to continue to use the old terms (BI), and Ireland is the rope in the tug of war.

The term is still widely in use in the UK/England, and it's not inaccurate. Just arguably it's a geographical, rather than a political term.

Bardcom does often change the term without even looking if his edit makes sense or is factual. See here as one of many instances. He changes British Isles to England wih a spurious reason, one can only think he sort of gets 'on a roll' and goes on a rampage of doing it.

93.thingy was Goldheart though, not Bardcom.

You make a charge of "spurious", without even making a case, typically Wikipedia-ish. What is spurious about his edit in that particular instance. All he is doing is editing and encyclopedia and correcting instances of the term British Isles, a relic of a term from a dead empire. But the "empire" may not be totally dead yet, the British Isles Brigade are quick on Bardcom's heels, and wildly snapping. Think it's going to ArbCom soon, before it sinks Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

It is spurious because someone had put that a certain temple is the biggest of its type in the British Isles, Bardy changed it to England saying there were none in Scotland etc. But if there are none in Scotland or Ireland or whatever then it naturally follows that it -is- the biggest of its kind in the British Isles, as the person who reverted him said in the edit summary.

This can be seen succinctly by simply viewing the diff, that's why I included it, rather than long-windedly go on about something that's so well described by the diff itself.

Don't know about SirFozzie, but with the other comparison we know because Bardcom's a man and Alison's a woman (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Have you seen Bardie then, or are you just taking his word for that? Maybe it's all a cunning plan- Alison can always use checkuser to absolve Bardcom (i.e. herself (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) ) Gold heart is aware of the connection and that's why he attempted to get Bardcom (a.k.a. his long term enemy, Alison) into trouble. It's all a conspiracy!

Hey what can I say, it's been a long day lol (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Gold heart]

It is spurious because someone had put that a certain temple is the biggest of its type in the British Isles, Bardy changed it to England saying there were none in Scotland etc. But if there are none in Scotland or Ireland or whatever then it naturally follows that it -is- the biggest of its kind in the British Isles, as the person who reverted him said in the edit summary.

This can be seen succinctly by simply viewing the diff, that's why I included it, rather than long-windedly go on about something that's so well described by the diff itself.

It's the only Temple of its kind in England or Ireland. The sentence implies that there are others, which is not true. So it's misleading. Can you not see? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

It is spurious because someone had put that a certain temple is the biggest of its type in the British Isles, Bardy changed it to England saying there were none in Scotland etc. But if there are none in Scotland or Ireland or whatever then it naturally follows that it -is- the biggest of its kind in the British Isles, as the person who reverted him said in the edit summary.

This can be seen succinctly by simply viewing the diff, that's why I included it, rather than long-windedly go on about something that's so well described by the diff itself.

I agree.

But its a wee bit of stretch to use the term British Isles for an English temple. Sure then we could say that the English queen is the only queen in the British Isles. Or that the Premiership is the only English tournament in the British Isles.

[wikiwhistle]

It is spurious because someone had put that a certain temple is the biggest of its type in the British Isles, Bardy changed it to England saying there were none in Scotland etc. But if there are none in Scotland or Ireland or whatever then it naturally follows that it -is- the biggest of its kind in the British Isles, as the person who reverted him said in the edit summary.

This can be seen succinctly by simply viewing the diff, that's why I included it, rather than long-windedly go on about something that's so well described by the diff itself.

I agree.

But its a wee bit of stretch to use the term British Isles for an English temple. Sure then we could say that the English queen is the only queen in the British Isles. Or that the Premiership is the only English tournament in the British Isles.

I suppose so. Not sure about it now you say it, it's sort of like wierd grammar or something and needs to be rephrased. But you can't deny Bardcom has a 'thing' about the British Isles, and it rubs people up the wrong way, as viewing his contribs does give people the impression of a Single Purpose Account designed to do a specific thing on wiki.

[Gold heart]

It is spurious because someone had put that a certain temple is the biggest of its type in the British Isles, Bardy changed it to England saying there were none in Scotland etc. But if there are none in Scotland or Ireland or whatever then it naturally follows that it -is- the biggest of its kind in the British Isles, as the person who reverted him said in the edit summary.

This can be seen succinctly by simply viewing the diff, that's why I included it, rather than long-windedly go on about something that's so well described by the diff itself.

I agree.

But its a wee bit of stretch to use the term British Isles for an English temple. Sure then we could say that the English queen is the only queen in the British Isles. Or that the Premiership is the only English tournament in the British Isles.

I suppose so. Not sure about it now you say it, it's sort of like wierd grammar or something and needs to be rephrased. But you can't deny Bardcom has a 'thing' about the British Isles, and it rubs people up the wrong way, as viewing his contribs does give people the impression of a Single Purpose Account designed to do a specific thing on wiki.

I'm not sure if Bardcom is removing references to the British Isles. He is trying to change BI context on a limited number of articles. There are thousands of references and links to BI, and he is only editing a few problematic ones. Connolly is over-reacting I think, but maybe he doesn't understand that Bardcom is trying to improve the encyclopedia. Connolly thinks it's an anti-British affair, and he being British doesn't like it. Sometimes Bardcom does get it wrong, as all editors do. As I say, "it's only a few articles that need fixing". (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[guy]

The "English queen" is a nonsense. She is queen of the United Kingdom (and quite a few other countries), and people here never refer to her as "The English queen".

OK, let's take a perfectly encyclopaedic statement. The article River Shannon rightly begins "The River Shannon (Sionainn or Sionna in Irish) is, at 386 km (240 miles), the longest river in the British Isles." How would this be put otherwise? The longest in Great Britain and Ireland, or The United Kingdom and the Irish Republic? The first would infuriate unionists, and the second might irritate some Irish nationalists. You could avoid it by saying (as indeed the article did at one point) "Ireland's longest river", leaving ambiguous whether you meant the island of Ireland or the Irish Republic, but that would be to omit important information.

[Alison]

How do we know Gold Heart isn't SirFozzie and Bardcom isn't Alison?

Don't know about SirFozzie, but with the other comparison we know because Bardcom's a man and Alison's a woman (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

lol - well you don't know either of those for sure, either (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

He's still at it folks. It's Bardcom versus Mr Bumptious at the moment. They'd be better off over here. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Trust me: I'm not Bardcom, and Bardcom is not Gold heart. No wayz.

EDIT: I just read Wikiwhistle's posting. I hereby absolve my sock as being a sock of me!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by Alison:

[Gold heart]

The "English queen" is a nonsense.

Sheese! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Guy, are you and TharkumColl socks by any chance? Very timely posting. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=220949900

What's the point in saying "the longest river in the BI". It's the longest river in Ireland, and that's what matters, My old pal TharkumColl's posting is POV inspired.

I think I'll undo TharkumColl, and see what ensues. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[guy]

I think I'll undo TharkumColl, and see what ensues. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

"BI is irrelevant and anachronistic + pass??"

And that isn't POV? Can someone please block that IP as a sock.

What next? Why not alter the article on Jeanne Calment to assert that she is the longest-lived person from Arles, rather than the longest-lived person in the world?

[Gold heart]

I think I'll undo TharkumColl, and see what ensues. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

"BI is irrelevant and anachronistic + passé"

And that isn't POV? Can someone please block that IP as a sock.

What next? Why not alter the article on Jeanne Calment to assert that she is the longest-lived person from Arles, rather than the longest-lived person in the world?

I think it's because of the fact that Jeanne Calment was the oldest living person in the world, that makes her so notable. I don't see an entry for the oldest living person in Hammersmith, or Hollyhead. They wouldn't be notable enough to get an article on WP.

To introduce the river Shannon as the longest river in the BIs is silly, and matters little. It's a river in Ireland, and that's why it's on WP, and that's the only reason. The term BI is not readily recoginised by most people throughout the world, and map-makers have ceased using the term.

I see TharkunColl has reverted with a typical POV summary. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225583589

How long will that last? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

[Dzonatas]

I think I'll undo TharkumColl, and see what ensues. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

"BI is irrelevant and anachronistic + passé"

And that isn't POV? Can someone please block that IP as a sock.

What next? Why not alter the article on Jeanne Calment to assert that she is the longest-lived person from Arles, rather than the longest-lived person in the world?

Maybe somebody will find the time to document all those edit-wars over the European isles, and it'll go down in history as World War III.

[guy]

map-makers have ceased using the term.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I see TharkunColl has reverted with a typical POV summary. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225583589

How long will that last? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

He's been impeccably non-POV. I hope that there won't be more socks making POV edit summaries.

[Alison]

&oldid

map-makers have ceased using the term.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

I see TharkunColl has reverted with a typical POV summary. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225583589

How long will that last? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

He's been impeccably non-POV. I hope that there won't be more socks making POV edit summaries.

Gold heart trolling again, eh? Should I block him or just sit on my hands, then (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Milton Roe]

I think I'll undo TharkumColl, and see what ensues. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

"BI is irrelevant and anachronistic + passé"

And that isn't POV? Can someone please block that IP as a sock.

What next? Why not alter the article on Jeanne Calment to assert that she is the longest-lived person from Arles, rather than the longest-lived person in the world?

I think it's because of the fact that Jeanne Calment was the oldest living person in the world, that makes her so notable. I don't see an entry for the oldest living person in Hammersmith, or Hollyhead. They wouldn't be notable enough to get an article on WP.

Actually there was some kind of edit war on WP about oldest people from various countries, plus one more to get people who'd verifiably made it past 110 (of which there are only a few). It came out LAME indeed. I think the KISSAROYAL ILIKEIT people won, and these for some reason did NOT like geriatrics. The ROYAL kissers were UK or British Isles (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) muggles, who I think had dark thoughts about drinking the blood of unicorns.

And yes, Gerard is indeed Malfoy.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe:

[Dzonatas]

He's been impeccably non-POV. I hope that there won't be more socks making POV edit summaries.

Consider how the state-hood of the EU was not passed (recent of last year) and that Ireland dissented from it, it is hard to say there is no POV to any of those edits. There appears to be two political fronts on the names, one being the EU and the other being BI, which the later is more actively shown in the edits. If it goes back to geographical location, which should have less to do with the politics of the names, the dispute is over what subset of locations to include in statements.

To make it one way or the other, the significance of such is not being stated on an article by article basis. The cookie cutter approach may not work in every case.

This post has been edited by Dzonatas:

[Gold heart]

I see TharkunColl has reverted with a typical POV summary. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225583589

How long will that last? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

He's been impeccably non-POV. I hope that there won't be more socks making POV edit summaries.

Don't give Thark an excuse, I'm sure he's still kicking himself after that compliment. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

Gold heart trolling again, eh? Should I block him or just sit on my hands, then (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Sit on your hands of course. You are far nicer that way, and more benign too. Or drink some coffee, a cup in each hand. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Actually there was some kind of edit war on WP about oldest people from various countries, plus one more to get people who'd verifiably made it past 110 (of which there are only a few). It came out LAME indeed. I think the KISSAROYAL ILIKEIT people won, and these for some reason did NOT like geriatrics. The ROYAL kissers were UK or British Isles (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) muggles, who I think had dark thoughts about drinking the blood of unicorns.

They definitely don't like their elders at WP, spoilt muggles. Come to think of it, don't think they like anybody over there. That's why they are always blocking someone, or banning another. Ugh! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

To make it one way or the other, the significance of such is not being stated on an article by article basis. The cookie cutter approach may not work in every case.

Yeah, it's cookie cutter time when it comes to pushing POV, and ignore the rules when that doesn't work. Strength in numbers is what works at WP, that's why it'll never be a great encyclopedia. It will always be a 3rd class affair. Better will come along in time, as it must. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Connolley edit-warring again
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225680162 (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[guy]

This borders on the surreal. The British Folk Song Society (now the British Folk Song and Dance Society) has always covered the whole of the British Isles, including the Isle of Man.

Incidentally, the Shannon is now "the longest river in Ireland and the British Isles", as if Ireland were not part of the British Isles. This may be a good compromise if Wikipedia is meant to be a series of warring tribes, but is not a good solution if Wikipedia is meant to be a serious encyclopaedia. I make no comment on which is a better reflection of reality.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

I do like Connolley's edit summaries. Here's his latest at River Thames Frost fairs: and I quote "rv the one-man waste of time again" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

He better watch out otherwise Bardy'll be blocking him. Oh but I forgot, it doesn't work like that at Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[Gold heart]

Connolley has blocked me, that's very unfair William.
You shouldn't be edit-warring and using your tool at the same time! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

You are currently unable to edit pages on Wikipedia.
You can still read pages, but cannot edit, change, or create them.
Editing from 93.107.72.250 (your account, IP address, or IP address range) has been disabled by William M. Connolley for the following reason(s):


goldheart
This block has been set to expire: 20:41, 16 July 2008.

Even if blocked, you will usually still be able to edit your user talk page and contact other editors and administrators by email.

Note: If you have JavaScript enabled, please use the [show] links across from each header to show more information.

[ComeGetMe]

I do like Connolley's edit summaries. Here's his latest at River Thames Frost fairs: and I quote "rv the one-man waste of time again" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

He better watch out otherwise Bardy'll be blocking him. Oh but I forgot, it doesn't work like that at Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Dya think I should get more popcorn???

Im not sure Bardy realises how deeply nobody cares. I nearly feel sorry for him. He keeps his cool, hes tenacious as hell, but admins sure know how to stick together. Theyre just waiting for one breach of civility and theyll block him for a week.

Yup - more popcorn needed. I feel it coming like a bad storm.

[Gold heart]

I do like Connolley's edit summaries. Here's his latest at River Thames Frost fairs: and I quote "rv the one-man waste of time again" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

He better watch out otherwise Bardy'll be blocking him. Oh but I forgot, it doesn't work like that at Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Dya think I should get more popcorn???

Im not sure Bardy realises how deeply nobody cares. I nearly feel sorry for him. He keeps his cool, hes tenacious as hell, but admins sure know how to stick together. Theyre just waiting for one breach of civility and theyll block him for a week.

Yup - more popcorn needed. I feel it coming like a bad storm.

I think the substantive lesson here is the lesson of how Wikipedia really works. Cabal, cabal, cabal. Although Connolley is getting a bit frustrated too as he's blanking much of his page of criticisms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=225870859

Until(1==2) also blanked his page today.

"Cabal on the run?" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Newyorkbrad]

I do like Connolley's edit summaries. Here's his latest at River Thames Frost fairs: and I quote "rv the one-man waste of time again" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

He better watch out otherwise Bardy'll be blocking him. Oh but I forgot, it doesn't work like that at Wikipedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Dya think I should get more popcorn???

Im not sure Bardy realises how deeply nobody cares. I nearly feel sorry for him. He keeps his cool, hes tenacious as hell, but admins sure know how to stick together. Theyre just waiting for one breach of civility and theyll block him for a week.

Yup - more popcorn needed. I feel it coming like a bad storm.

This isn't my job these days, so I haven't looked into the history here -- but if the question is simply whether and when the term "British Isles" should be used -- has anyone suggested just running a content RfC, and everyone agreeing to abide by the result?

[Kelly Martin]

has anyone suggested just running a content RfC, and everyone agreeing to abide by the result?

The problem with that suggestion is that it relies on the parties in the dispute being "reasonable". My experience is that in any drawn-out dispute on Wikipedia, at least some of the disputants are not being reasonable, have no interest in being reasonable, and may not even be capable of being reasonable. Attempting to resolve such disputes reasonably is simply going to lead to burnout.

[ComeGetMe]

Oooh! Bardy just posted this on WMCs Talk page.

--
William, this comment on ATren's Talk page is a clear breach of civility. The bolding is mine to highlight the problem sentences.

Somewhat patronising, but to answer your essential point: Bardcom is engaged in a one-man campaign to remove the words British Isles from wiki. He is editing in bad faith, and a glance at his edits will show you this. Pretending otherwise is pointless. As the talk on his talk page makes clear, Bardcom is not to be trusted: he keeps inexplicably missing text that he has actually responded to; he quotes the first sentence of the revert policy but somehow fails to read the second... all very odd, or rather, not odd at all

You wrote this before I posted the last warning, but this is particularly incivil and breaches WP:AGF. Can we agree that we are searching for a way to resolve the dispute, and that as part of it, we will remain civil and not engage in personal attacks? Thank you. --Bardcom (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
--

Funny how admins can get away with this.
No really.
Its funny.

has anyone suggested just running a content RfC, and everyone agreeing to abide by the result?

The problem with that suggestion is that it relies on the parties in the dispute being "reasonable". My experience is that in any drawn-out dispute on Wikipedia, at least some of the disputants are not being reasonable, have no interest in being reasonable, and may not even be capable of being reasonable. Attempting to resolve such disputes reasonably is simply going to lead to burnout.

Sounds like WMC all right

[Newyorkbrad]

has anyone suggested just running a content RfC, and everyone agreeing to abide by the result?

The problem with that suggestion is that it relies on the parties in the dispute being "reasonable". My experience is that in any drawn-out dispute on Wikipedia, at least some of the disputants are not being reasonable, have no interest in being reasonable, and may not even be capable of being reasonable. Attempting to resolve such disputes reasonably is simply going to lead to burnout.

Creating some form of consensus -- or even a reasoned majority decision -- can avoid continuous and repetitious discussion of the same issue for an appropriate period of time by providing a reference point. It also allows the party who "loses" the content dispute to back down in deference to the consensus or majority view without feeling that he or she has surrendered his or her convictions or opinion.

[Kelly Martin]

Creating some form of consensus -- or even a reasoned majority decision -- can avoid continuous and repetitious discussion of the same issue for an appropriate period of time by providing a reference point. It also allows the party who "loses" the content dispute to back down in deference to the consensus or majority view without feeling that he or she has surrendered his or her convictions or opinion.

Neither of these works well when you have one or more parties involved in a dispute that have nothing to lose and no reason to back down. Ideologues often believe that they are right; no number of people telling them otherwise will alter this conviction. You also have the problem of people whose primary or secondary purpose is to create or extend conflict, because doing so is fun. Wikipedia is overrun with persons of the first sort, and has enough persons of the second sort, to virtually ensure that the prompt and peaceful resolution of just about any dispute is a futile effort.

[ComeGetMe]

Oooh! Bardy just posted this on WMCs Talk page.

--
William, this comment on ATren's Talk page is a clear breach of civility. The bolding is mine to highlight the problem sentences.

Somewhat patronising, but to answer your essential point: Bardcom is engaged in a one-man campaign to remove the words British Isles from wiki. He is editing in bad faith, and a glance at his edits will show you this. Pretending otherwise is pointless. As the talk on his talk page makes clear, Bardcom is not to be trusted: he keeps inexplicably missing text that he has actually responded to; he quotes the first sentence of the revert policy but somehow fails to read the second... all very odd, or rather, not odd at all

You wrote this before I posted the last warning, but this is particularly incivil and breaches WP:AGF. Can we agree that we are searching for a way to resolve the dispute, and that as part of it, we will remain civil and not engage in personal attacks? Thank you. --Bardcom (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
--

And now its gone again. I notice WMC is removing all warnings. How did WMC actually get to be an admin?

Alison?

[Gold heart]

Oooh! Bardy just posted this on WMCs Talk page.

--
William, this comment on ATren's Talk page is a clear breach of civility. The bolding is mine to highlight the problem sentences.

Somewhat patronising, but to answer your essential point: Bardcom is engaged in a one-man campaign to remove the words British Isles from wiki. He is editing in bad faith, and a glance at his edits will show you this. Pretending otherwise is pointless. As the talk on his talk page makes clear, Bardcom is not to be trusted: he keeps inexplicably missing text that he has actually responded to; he quotes the first sentence of the revert policy but somehow fails to read the second... all very odd, or rather, not odd at all

You wrote this before I posted the last warning, but this is particularly incivil and breaches WP:AGF. Can we agree that we are searching for a way to resolve the dispute, and that as part of it, we will remain civil and not engage in personal attacks? Thank you. --Bardcom (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
--

And now its gone again. I notice WMC is removing all warnings. How did WMC actually get to be an admin?

Alison?

Apparently Connolley doesn't keep archives either, a touch of arrogance, or is there another reason. He appears to be under some strain at the moment. The impatience he usually displays to other lessor editors is probably defensive, and a front. Maybe he should take a few days holiday. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[Alison]

And now its gone again. I notice WMC is removing all warnings. How did WMC actually get to be an admin?

Alison?

I've no idea, to be honest. He's not been on my radar until very recently.

BTW - Bardy just contacted me in email and wants me to get involved in brokering some sort of dispute resolution. I'll take a look soon, but I'm just too busy with real-life for much wiki stuff right now. Interestingly, he seems to be of the same opinion as Brad in getting everyone around the table to talk.

[wikiwhistle]

And now its gone again. I notice WMC is removing all warnings. How did WMC actually get to be an admin?

Posting templates to an admin just won't work and seems cheeky (sad to say.)

BTW - Bardy just contacted me in email and wants me to get involved in brokering some sort of dispute resolution. I'll take a look soon, but I'm just too busy with real-life for much wiki stuff right now. Interestingly, he seems to be of the same opinion as Brad in getting everyone around the table to talk.

Of course he will say that- otherwise he has acted in such a way as to have no reserve of good will from others and is cruising for a block. He needs to pay lip service to something to save his bacon. (forgive my cynicism.)

Also, people with views that fixed can't really compromise, even if they say they want to, I think.

[Gold heart]

Also, people with views that fixed can't really compromise, even if they say they want to, I think.

Is that cryptic? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

The glass is always "half-full", it'll work out in the end. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[powercorrupts]

And now its gone again. I notice WMC is removing all warnings. How did WMC actually get to be an admin?

Alison?

I've no idea, to be honest. He's not been on my radar until very recently.

BTW - Bardy just contacted me in email and wants me to get involved in brokering some sort of dispute resolution. I'll take a look soon, but I'm just too busy with real-life for much wiki stuff right now. Interestingly, he seems to be of the same opinion as Brad in getting everyone around the table to talk.

"Bardy just contacted me in email" - that's a bit familiar isn't it?

Beggars a few questions:

Does he email you often?
Do many editors email you often?
What do you think of the Bardcom BI-removal situation? (or, better still - what was your reply?)

Although some of Bardcom's removals have been apt (ie the 'matter' didn't cover Britain and Ireland) - he has been doing nothing else on Wkipedia but remove the term for a while - and he drops civility warnings on people's talk pages for slightest tinge of "ad hominem" in their disagreements.

It's a bizarre combination of a clean-up service, 'accidental' vandalism, obsessively patriotic 'POV' and completely blind self-righteousness (he can't see how he's in the wrong at all). And - surely - breaking a Wikipedia rule? What could be complicated is that when the use of 'British Isles' is valid, but just used as filler (ie it's not essential to the point), then he still removes (and re-writes) it for not being necessary. But is that a crime? And has anyone ever gone this far before?

[guy]

Why doesn't WR go into the dispute resolution business? We set up a wiki or other appropriate site, and get respected arbiters and ex-arbiters such as NYB, Kelly Martin, Fred Bauder (if we can drag him away from Wikinfo) and FloNight to hear cases.

For a start, if there are any sockpuppetry issues we have vastly more expertise than was shown by ArbCom in say the Mantanmoreland case.

[Moulton]

Why doesn't WR go into the dispute resolution business? We set up a wiki or other appropriate site, and get respected arbiters and ex-arbiters such as NYB, Kelly Martin, Fred Bauder (if we can drag him away from Wikinfo) and FloNight to hear cases.

For a start, if there are any sockpuppetry issues we have vastly more expertise than was shown by ArbCom in say the Mantanmoreland case.

I've actually tried (with limited success) to ease some of the longer running conflicts that keep getting shunted off to the tar pits. In a couple of cases, I managed to briefly achieve a reduction of animosity. But it didn't last too long.

[powercorrupts]

Bardcom seems to be starting to realise he needs to step back, show some faith in others over their reverts of him (ie curtail the 'crusade'), and not rely on dishing out the templates to clear his path. Looks like his short block has had a good effect.

But check out Bardcom's slightly snide sidekick Crispness - he backs Bardcom up on the British Isles removal and he uses m for every single edit he makes! (no kidding - he has it on a permanent lock).

What is it with obsessives and Wikipedia? They don't seem to realise that nothing (for the less important anyway) is hidden.

Mind you, there is Alison's email.

"Oh Danny boy,...

This post has been edited by powercorrupts:

[Gold heart]

Bardcom seems to be starting to realise he needs to step back, show some faith in others over their reverts of him (ie curtail the 'crusade'), and not rely on dishing out the templates to clear his path. Looks like his short block has had a good effect.

But check out Bardcom's slightly snide sidekick Crispness - he backs Bardcom up on the British Isles removal and he uses m for every single edit he makes! (no kidding - he has it on a permanent lock).

What is it with obsessives and Wikipedia? They don't seem to realise that nothing (for the less important anyway) is hidden.

Mind you, there is Alison's email.

"Oh Danny boy,...

Some editors seem obsessed with Bardcom and Crispness. It's circular. What's a few edits? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[powercorrupts]

Bardcom seems to be starting to realise he needs to step back, show some faith in others over their reverts of him (ie curtail the 'crusade'), and not rely on dishing out the templates to clear his path. Looks like his short block has had a good effect.

But check out Bardcom's slightly snide sidekick Crispness - he backs Bardcom up on the British Isles removal and he uses m for every single edit he makes! (no kidding - he has it on a permanent lock).

What is it with obsessives and Wikipedia? They don't seem to realise that nothing (for the less important anyway) is hidden.

Mind you, there is Alison's email.

"Oh Danny boy,...

Some editors seem obsessed with Bardcom and Crispness. It's circular. What's a few edits? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Clearly a minor subject for you then! What is is circular about it? The editors/admins involved seem to be arguing the general case, rather than have a particular obsession with the editors in question, anyway. And it's more than a few edits.

[ComeGetMe]

Bardcom seems to be starting to realise he needs to step back, show some faith in others over their reverts of him (ie curtail the 'crusade'), and not rely on dishing out the templates to clear his path. Looks like his short block has had a good effect.

While I wuz bored and looking for excuses to get more popcorn I checked out all Bardys edits. I mean llike all of them. Sad. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

OK - surprise! Bardy did a good job. He was consistent and explained his reasons any time he was asked. Sure he was incessent and he got a few wrong, but nearly all were good. So his enemies decided to go after him and said hes an irish republican with anti-british POV rather than discuss his edits. And it worked too. He's been very quite this week - calm before the storm or beaten into submission?

WMC, Chillum1=2, Tharky, and a bunch of anon IP editors on one side. Once the admins arrived he hadnt a hope.

Look at his recent edits. CarterBar and Tharky are stalking and commenting on every edit. Look at Young Ambassadors edits where Bardy made a good edit using the Young Ambassadors official website for the reference to use UK and not BI, and Tharky just reverts anyway. Or look at the Furry Dance article. Looks to me like a bunch of very British editors got together and cabalized him. Proper like.

Oh the injustice! How can wikipedia be allowed to operate like this! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Heh heh. Schmuck. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Mind you, there is Alison's email.

"Oh Danny boy,...

But did she do anything about it? Leaving aside telling us all here that Bardy had asked for help.

I wonder how many others he asked, I wonder how many others unofficially sanction the very British pro-BI cabal, exactly how many editors are locked onto his contrib lists, and do they accept membership? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[powercorrupts]

Bardcom seems to be starting to realise he needs to step back, show some faith in others over their reverts of him (ie curtail the 'crusade'), and not rely on dishing out the templates to clear his path. Looks like his short block has had a good effect.

While I wuz bored and looking for excuses to get more popcorn I checked out all Bardys edits. I mean llike all of them. Sad. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

OK - surprise! Bardy did a good job. He was consistent and explained his reasons any time he was asked. Sure he was incessent and he got a few wrong, but nearly all were good. So his enemies decided to go after him and said hes an irish republican with anti-british POV rather than discuss his edits. And it worked too. He's been very quite this week - calm before the storm or beaten into submission?

WMC, Chillum1=2, Tharky, and a bunch of anon IP editors on one side. Once the admins arrived he hadnt a hope.

REPLY: Where are these IP's? They tend to be on Bardcom's side if anything! I think Bardcom's seen sense myself (not beaten into submission!).

Look at his recent edits. CarterBar and Tharky are stalking and commenting on every edit. Look at Young Ambassadors edits where Bardy made a good edit using the Young Ambassadors official website for the reference to use UK and not BI, and Tharky just reverts anyway. Or look at the Furry Dance article. Looks to me like a bunch of very British editors got together and cabalized him. Proper like.

Oh the injustice! How can wikipedia be allowed to operate like this! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Heh heh. Schmuck. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

REPLY: Nobody has said Barcom has not found examples where the term was misused... It is unfortunate that Tharkuncoll has got involved - he is a fool of the highest order. But Bardcom brought all this on himself.

Mind you, there is Alison's email.

"Oh Danny boy,...

But did she do anything about it? Leaving aside telling us all here that Bardy had asked for help?

REPLY: She said she hadn't the time. Unless she replies we don't know how she feels on it. This was something for her Talk page - I don't like it at all that it was dealt with by email. Do you? Especially when the admin who finally gave Bardcom the block (after other admins were critical) could be ganged-up on over this. If you didn't know, there is quite a powerful "nationalist" (used in quotes) contingent on Wikipedia that often pull together in these matters.

I wonder how many others he asked, I wonder how many others unofficially sanction the very British pro-BI cabal, exactly how many editors are locked onto his contrib lists, and do they accept membership? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

REPLY: Britain is something that exists. Fully independent Scotland etc doesn't. It's easy to forget that when describing this . It is easy to call editors like CarterBar "pro-British" is a derogative way - but it is also foolish. He is British - and this about a geographical term, and not Britain anyway. The arguments get smudged.

If CarterBar wasn't there, Bardcom would have gone on unchecked and removed countless scores of "British Isles" by now - with about a third having correct uses, a third with acceptable neutral usues, and maybe (yes) a third that were contentious (and needed to go). The point is that for a period he was removing examples of all three, literally one after the other - and dishing out warning templates to people, literally just for criticising him (which he saw as "ad hominem" attacks).

Did Bardcom do all of the good jobs hiself, or was it the people who forced him to compromise on certain articles? Nobody has claimed (inc. CarterBar) that at times the the term was used incorrectly and needed revising or removing - the whole point was that for a period Bardcom was removing every use he could - even when the context was there.

Often the 'favourable edit' came in afer CarterBar got involved and they edit-warred then talked.

How can CarterBar be "stalking" him anyway, when it's all on the same subject? He told Bardcom upfront that he'll be watching the continual BI-related edits. I wonder where that sits with WP law too - surely CarterBar has a right to do this?

OK, TharkunColl‎ has got involved (not a pleasant editor at all - infact one that has trolled his anti-Islamism so many times, and so deliberately insultingly, that is is almost racist of Wikipedia that he isn't banned by now) - but that doesn't change the issues.

[wikiwhistle]

OK - surprise! Bardy did a good job. He was consistent and explained his reasons any time he was asked. Sure he was incessent and he got a few wrong, but nearly all were good. So his enemies decided to go after him and said hes an irish republican with anti-british POV rather than discuss his edits. And it worked too. He's been very quite this week - calm before the storm or beaten into submission?

WMC, Chillum1=2, Tharky, and a bunch of anon IP editors on one side. Once the admins arrived he hadnt a hope.

Look at his recent edits. CarterBar and Tharky are stalking and commenting on every edit. Look at Young Ambassadors edits where Bardy made a good edit using the Young Ambassadors official website for the reference to use UK and not BI, and Tharky just reverts anyway. Or look at the Furry Dance article. Looks to me like a bunch of very British editors got together and cabalized him. Proper like.

If you look at bits of Bardy's talk page, over articles such as Ireland etc, I think they are actually coming to a working compromise- Bardy has made others think, and others are also providing a counterbalance to Bardy.

There's a moment on B's talkpage, where he actually says he agrees with TharkunColl, with using "British Isles" in a geographical context in an article. So I do think they will come to some grudging way of working together (although of course, both of them might overstep it sometimes.)

[Peter Crane]

Note that Bardcom sites Wikipedia Review as a reason for his action coming to light - yet he does not deny it is what he is doing, just that what he is doing is not an obsessive one man campaign.

I wonder what other obsessives are slowly going around corrupting others work? What would a historian do in 100 years time if they tried to use Wikipedia as some form of snapshot of world opinion of the early 21st century?

An historian might conclude that Wikipedia was dominated by an ad hoc ochlocracy comprised of anankastic antagonists.

Wikipedia *is* dominated by leftists generally, then North Americans, and then there is the nasty bunch of Irish Republicans (not known for their generosity of attitude, in real terms), none of whom are remotely pro-British. I am surprised that bardcom has been blocked. Possibly the IRA supporters havn;t noticed this yet. Rest assured they'll act, quietly, or otherwise.

[Kelly Martin]

If you look at bits of Bardy's talk page, over articles such as Ireland etc, I think they are actually coming to a working compromise- Bardy has made others think, and others are also providing a counterbalance to Bardy.

There's a moment on B's talkpage, where he actually says he agrees with TharkunColl, with using "British Isles" in a geographical context in an article. So I do think they will come to some grudging way of working together (although of course, both of them might overstep it sometimes.)

In other words, pretty effective "dispute resolution" for the English Wikipedia. Sadly, the only way to get a bona fide dispute resolved in that dysfunctional environment is to create a drama storm, because that's the only way you'll ever get any sort of attention.

[wikiwhistle]

OK, TharkunColl‎ has got involved (not a pleasant editor at all - infact one that has trolled his anti-Islamism so many times, and so deliberately insultingly, that is is almost racist of Wikipedia that he isn't banned by now) - but that doesn't change the issues.

Wikipedia has blocked Tharkie in the past for his actions on the 'Muhammad' article, but he hasn't done anything objectionable on that article for several months I don't think. He had to stop or Neil said he would block him for three months and he would face escalating blocks. So, they have disciplined him for it, it's not like they let him continue doing what he did on the Muhammad article.

However, TharkunColl was rightly trying to include the fact that Muhammad had a consummated marriage with a girl when she was 9 years old- this is a fact and if others don't want to include it, that is a cover-up practiced for their own agenda. Of course in the context of child marriage, that wasn't an aberration in Muhammad's culture at the time. It's covering things up that is POV pushing and misleading in this case.

The same with the pictures of Mohammed- if some Muslims don't want them they're free to create their own Islamopedia or something whose rules are those of Islam. I even saw on the village pump or something someone saying that there being '5 pillars of wikipedia' is an insult to Islam or something, as there are 5 pillars of Islam. None of this helps the cause of making people think there's such a thing (which I presume there is) as moderate Islam.

If you look at bits of Bardy's talk page, over articles such as Ireland etc, I think they are actually coming to a working compromise- Bardy has made others think, and others are also providing a counterbalance to Bardy.

There's a moment on B's talkpage, where he actually says he agrees with TharkunColl, with using "British Isles" in a geographical context in an article. So I do think they will come to some grudging way of working together (although of course, both of them might overstep it sometimes.)

In other words, pretty effective "dispute resolution" for the English Wikipedia. Sadly, the only way to get a bona fide dispute resolved in that dysfunctional environment is to create a drama storm, because that's the only way you'll ever get any sort of attention.

I think there comes a point where if people have any reasoning powers, they realise they have to start playing by the rules or face an Arbcom etc or block. People still tend to occassionally lapse back into trying to get away with things, though. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Kelly Martin]

I think there comes a point where if people have any reasoning powers, they realise they have to start playing by the rules or face an Arbcom etc or block. People still tend to occassionally lapse back into trying to get away with things, though. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

You can't get anywhere on Wikipedia by following the rules, so why bother? Nah, the way to success on Wikipedia is schmooze, schmooze, schmooze. Just like in real life.

[wikiwhistle]

I think there comes a point where if people have any reasoning powers, they realise they have to start playing by the rules or face an Arbcom etc or block. People still tend to occassionally lapse back into trying to get away with things, though. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

You can't get anywhere on Wikipedia by following the rules, so why bother? Nah, the way to success on Wikipedia is schmooze, schmooze, schmooze. Just like in real life.

Lol good point. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gold heart]

However, TharkunColl was rightly trying to include the fact that Muhammad had a consummated marriage with a girl when she was 9 years old- this is a fact and if others don't want to include it, that is a cover-up practiced for their own agenda. Of course in the context of child marriage, that wasn't an aberration in Muhammad's culture at the time. It's covering things up that is POV pushing and misleading in this case.

This is typical Thatky in action, he finds 'something uncomfortable', and he goes on a campaign to push it into an article. Nine year old marriage still goes on in the world, and slavery, and all those horrible things that used to be practiced in America, Europe, and in Britain, which also practiced the boiling people in oil as recent as 200 years ago. It also gets a little bit offensive when some editors try to add that Winston Churchill was indited for homosexual acts back in 19th century Britain. So lesson learned, if everyone wanted to act like Thark, there would indeed be chaos amongst editors. He deserved his block, IMHO.

[Robert Roberts]

I've come across him a few times, he's a tool - he's not particular interested in "truth", he's interested in pissing off Muslim editors. He's a troll.

[wikiwhistle]

I've come across him a few times, he's a tool - he's not particular interested in "truth", he's interested in pissing off Muslim editors. He's a troll.

Yes but it's still a fact- why hide it unless others have an agenda.
Goldy- thark was banned for a fortnight in jan or something, since then he's been back and had to behave a bit around the muhammad article. I thought he was risking being blocked over the recent Bardy reverts to be honest. How he behaves over Irish, Islam and so on articles merely reflects the perspective of a lot of English people or people worldwide who don't have a POV pushing pro-Irish republican agenda, and our views are not necessarily represented on those articles due to the high numbers of Irish or pro- Irish editing on there. Not that I'm anti-Irish, just saying at the current time there's not many people representing the views Thark is trying to make sure are including in these articles, and he's not alone in holding these views,but they've been forced out.

However, I can't claim to be unbiased, that's why I'm not going to chip in much on any Arbcom etc about it from now on- or I will make sure I let my own allegiances be known.

The reason being that Thark is a personal friend of mine in real life, and we're meeting him for drinks on Sunday for social or reasons largely unrelated to wiki, but which will include a great deal of celebration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[Gold heart]

I've come across him a few times, he's a tool - he's not particular interested in "truth", he's interested in pissing off Muslim editors. He's a troll.

Yes but it's still a fact- why hide it unless others have an agenda.
Goldy- thark was banned for a fortnight in jan or something, since then he's been back and had to behave a bit around the muhammad article. I thought he was risking being blocked over the recent Bardy reverts to be honest. How he behaves over Irish, Islam and so on articles merely reflects the perspective of a lot of English people or people worldwide who don't have a POV pushing pro-Irish republican agenda, and our views are not necessarily represented on those articles due to the high numbers of Irish or pro- Irish editing on there. Not that I'm anti-Irish, just saying at the current time there's not many people representing the views Thark is trying to make sure are including in these articles, and he's not alone in holding these views,but they've been forced out.

However, I can't claim to be unbiased, that's why I'm not going to chip in much on any Arbcom etc about it from now on- or I will make sure I let my own allegiances be known.

The reason being that Thark is a personal friend of mine in real life, and we're meeting him for drinks on Sunday for social or reasons largely unrelated to wiki, but which will include a great deal of celebration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

And why is Churchill being protected from similar by British Nationalists? Actually Thark was one of my favourite editors on WP, and he doesn't hide his pro-British pov under a bushel, he so much reminds me of some of my English cousins in many ways. Didn't realise the block was for two weeks, and personally I'd be more in favour of a topic-ban for two weeks. I once told him that I could easily imagine him at the bottom of his garden, raising the Union Jack every morning at dawn to the sound of GodSaveTheQueen from an old gramophone record, and lowering it lovingly, each evening at dusk.

I will differ from you about your general thrust here, Wikipedia is top heavy with pro-British editors, pushing a British pov. It's not a conspiracy theory, as those same editors don't even realise that they are basking in their own pov. All you have to do is read the British based history articles, where there is a lot of pov. Sometimes a lone Irish editor comes along and tries to rectify a sentence about the Earl of Essex, or Cromwell and suddenly about twenty pro-British editors come out of the "woodwork", and chew the head off him, he won't go back there again! Recently there was a spate of pro-British-pov editors throlling on the Irish Famine page, an aspect I found rather disgusting. Anyway, give Thark my regards, and have a nice Sunday and weekend. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

The moral is that everone has their POV, and to deny that is akin denying their ones own mortality, I guess. I think the big challenge is for everyone to recognise that aspect of themselves within their own editing. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

[powercorrupts]

I've come across him a few times, he's a tool - he's not particular interested in "truth", he's interested in pissing off Muslim editors. He's a troll.

Yes but it's still a fact- why hide it unless others have an agenda.
Goldy- thark was banned for a fortnight in jan or something, since then he's been back and had to behave a bit around the muhammad article. I thought he was risking being blocked over the recent Bardy reverts to be honest. How he behaves over Irish, Islam and so on articles merely reflects the perspective of a lot of English people or people worldwide who don't have a POV pushing pro-Irish republican agenda, and our views are not necessarily represented on those articles due to the high numbers of Irish or pro- Irish editing on there. Not that I'm anti-Irish, just saying at the current time there's not many people representing the views Thark is trying to make sure are including in these articles, and he's not alone in holding these views,but they've been forced out.

However, I can't claim to be unbiased, that's why I'm not going to chip in much on any Arbcom etc about it from now on- or I will make sure I let my own allegiances be known.

The reason being that Thark is a personal friend of mine in real life, and we're meeting him for drinks on Sunday for social or reasons largely unrelated to wiki, but which will include a great deal of celebration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

You said somewhere above "if assuming Muslims can be moderate?". Nice attitude. So you are his mate? Birds of a feather, I guess. Tell him his behaviour here is utterly gross. There are a billion Muslims in the word, a minority of them extreme (and they do have their reasons, unacceptable as it is) - the last thing the world needs are people like Tharkuncoll.

Ever wondered why the extremism comes from the oppressed areas, and moderation from the free areas? Yes, there are moderate Muslims. I guess not many Muslims are invited to your party. I am pro-British, but I worry sometimes, I really do (skinheads etc).

Almost makes me want to take Bardcom's side! People are right when they say he is starting to mediate and the block worked (as I pointed out myselff above).

[wikiwhistle]

And why is Churchill being protected from similar by British Nationalists?

That's the way it goes on Wikipedia, most of the articles have a degree of WP:OWN by one 'side' or the other of an argument. Such as pro- or anti- a particular cult or whatever.

Actually Thark was one of my favourite editors on WP, and he doesn't hide his pro-British pov under a bushel, he so much reminds me of some of my English cousins in many ways. Didn't realise the block was for two weeks, and personally I'd be more in favour of a topic-ban for two weeks. I once told him that I could easily imagine him at the bottom of his garden, raising the Union Jack every morning at dawn to the sound of GodSaveTheQueen from an old gramophone record, and lowering it lovingly, each evening at dusk.

I think/know he enjoys the arguments greatly, he's rarely upset by it and finds the completely, to him, outlandish views of for instance G2Bambino and various other editors on articles about the royals etc. hilarious. Unless someone has really strong views about these issues, some people would admit to finding his antics sort of funny in a way, perhaps, in as much as they are shocked as they're not "politically correct," and people like to sometimes have a break from political correctness. even if t's not with something that's identical to their own viewpoint. As you say about your cousins, he's not the only one in England/ the UK in particular with these views. He is not as posh or outmoded as to have a flag, or sing god save the queen etc. I'd imagine him more as the average bloke down the pub but with a bit more intellect, who enjoys a good row or mock of people over his pint.

I will differ from you about your general thrust here, Wikipedia is top heavy with pro-British editors, pushing a British pov. It's not a conspiracy theory, as those same editors don't even realise that they are basking in their own pov.

I've not seen any other than tharky, but it's not my particular subject area so I only read the rows he's involved in as a friend, so I only see the mad-keen ones he's debating with, such as G2Bambino. I don't know if you know of G2Bambino's edits, but he has a thing about Canada and some minutiae of terminology about the status of the Queen there. While technically true, they seem bizarre at first glance and Thark obviously enjoys arguing about them.

Recently there was a spate of pro-British-pov editors throlling on the Irish Famine page, an aspect I found rather disgusting.

I don't know much about the article, except it's not even called 'Irish potato famine' is it, which is what everyone/the media in the UK refer to it as. Isn't it the one that's randomly called 'the great hunger'?

Anyway, give Thark my regards, and have a nice Sunday and weekend. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I wil, and you. Do you know any WP editors in real life? There seem not to be that many of us in a town, either that or people are too ashamed too admit it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The moral is that everone has their POV, and to deny that is akin denying their ones own mortality, I guess. I think the big challenge is for everyone to recognise that aspect of themselves within their own editing. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

True but people, especially perhaps some of "The Cabal" are mad keen to deny they have a bias and assert that their interpretation of an issue is The Truth. Of course with a lot of academic subjects nowadays, such as anthropology etc, I would say that stuudents are encouraged to be aware of their own bias.

Then of course, those with a viewpoint different from that of the upper eschelons on wiki probably end up being blocked if they're too vocal about it.

As to a topic ban- Thark was explicitly warned that it was perceived misbehaviour on the Muhammad article that would lead to further blocks. Topic bans tend to be used less often than blocks in general, because they usually need more discussion or Arbcom rather than one admin just 'sorting it out' on their own with a block.

I keep fearing that some of this will end with an Arbcom... but despite appearances with the Bardy issue, things are actually more amicable now on some of the articles about the royals etc. I think User:GoodDay or whatever he's called is a calming presence.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[powercorrupts]

As to a topic ban- Thark was explicitly warned that it was perceived misbehaviour on the Muhammad article that would lead to further blocks. Topic bans tend to be used less often than blocks in general, because they usually need more discussion or Arbcom rather than one admin just 'sorting it out' on their own with a block.

I keep fearing that some of this will end with an Arbcom... but despite appearances with the Bardy issue, things are actually more amicable now on some of the articles about the royals etc. I think User:GoodDay or whatever he's called is a calming presence.

GoodDay is a pro-British Canadian 'Republican' that befriends everyone and turns up everywhere around Britain and Ireland. He is anti 'edit warring' to the extreme - sometimes threatening going to an admin when people try things. I personally don;t see him as helpful to the project (as his influence can be quite sly) - but I had seen him as relatively benign and well-meaning. Since I saw him calling on a reduction for Tharkuncolls '2 weeks' though it made me look at him in a new light.

As for you calling Tharkuncoll's gross behaviour regarding Islam as "perceived misbehaviour" - you are just showing your true colours. His language was continually inflammatory, insulting, bating, belittling and racist. And like all racists, he tars everyone with the same brush ('those Jews..' etc). He had a number of previous blocks too. He might be your mate, but you should seriously think twice (or perhaps have a better look and read a bit of politics) before defending him.

This post has been edited by powercorrupts:

[ComeGetMe]

More BI edit warring at the "River Shannon" article. This time its the proBI crew trying to get the term inserted. Goldie! Have you been at it again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) 7 reverts too! Naughty...

All the usual suspects + a few new ones. Theres one called Sarah777 thats a bit like Bardy on steroids, but Tharky and CarterBar turned up as normal.

Wheres WMC when the term is being inserted to dish out blocks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Or any admin for that matter.

[Gold heart]

More BI edit warring at the "River Shannon" article. This time its the proBI crew trying to get the term inserted. Goldie! Have you been at it again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) 7 reverts too! Naughty...

All the usual suspects + a few new ones. Theres one called Sarah777 thats a bit like Bardy on steroids, but Tharky and CarterBar turned up as normal.

Wheres WMC when the term is being inserted to dish out blocks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Or any admin for that matter.

Good observation "ComeGetMe". Yups, I don't see WMC, or WAGGERS, or BEN dishing out blocks to the pro-"British Isles Brigade" (bib), where are they hiding? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) THARKUMCOLL is off celebrating something or other with WikiWhistle tonight, so things were noticeably quieter because of that. I didn't see you mention GOODDAY, although he's on the mild side and goes where the wind is blowing. Interesting where this goes to, eventually? Bardcom is sitting quite at the moment, I wonder does he know what he's dealing with. That particular "BIB" don't give an inch. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

THARKUMCOLL is off celebrating something or other with WikiWhistle tonight, so things were noticeably quieter because of that.

I've been offline most of the weekend for a change, but see Tharky was busy editing some of the time (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) He seems well in himself. Hopefully we'll manage to keep him on wiki, he's not so bad as all that. If some of you can't appreciate his edits as what they of course are, proper edits, maybe think of them more as non-politically correct humour by means of the MMORPG? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[Gold heart]

THARKUMCOLL is off celebrating something or other with WikiWhistle tonight, so things were noticeably quieter because of that.

I've been offline most of the weekend for a change, but see Tharky was busy editing some of the time (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) He seems well in himself. Hopefully we'll manage to keep him on wiki, he's not so bad as all that. If some of you can't appreciate his edits as what they of course are, proper edits, maybe think of them more as non-politically correct humour by means of the MMORPG? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Even though I got on famously with all the pro-BI-crew, it is now reaching a stage where it is ceasing to be funny any more. Wikipedia cannot have a handful of editors do what they like, and then punish the other side for trying to create balance in the articles. I'm afraid that this is going to reach a head, sooner rather than later, and TharkumColl will be seen as a disruptive editor, as he was in some Muslin articles. There may come a stage when the project is better off without him. I'm the last person who would like to see an editor indeffed, but Tharky will have to be reined in. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[wikiwhistle]

I'm afraid that this is going to reach a head, sooner rather than later, and TharkumColl will be seen as a disruptive editor, as he was in some Muslin articles. There may come a stage when the project is better off without him. I'm the last person who would like to see an editor indeffed, but Tharky will have to be reined in. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

I keep telling him I don't want to see him blocked and he said he didn't want to be. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) I've feared an arbcom but the editors seem to come to a grudging agreement on the royalist articles and so on after a while- Thark hasn't had the G2Bambino rows as often and there were some signs of some improvement between he and Bardy a couple of days a go, which I hope reimerges.

As to this thread, feel free to snip, and I apologise if my comments offended anyone or I've posted anything inappropriate for the forum, I was just speaking from my personal experience. But I appreciate these subjects are always sensitive etc.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[Gold heart]

I think Alison is supportive of throll TarkumColl. As usual she is watching out for me, and she has blocked me again. Alison, have you anything better to do with your time than spy out for me. Get a life. There are some border guards needed in North Korea, not think of applying? You'll do very well! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

You are currently unable to edit pages on Wikipedia.
You can still read pages, but cannot edit, change, or create them.
Editing from 93.107.7.254 (your account, IP address, or IP address range) has been disabled by Alison for the following reason(s):


Block evasion: GH, will you ever *please* quit trolling :x
This block has been set to expire: 01:10, 24 July 2008.

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[Alison]

I think Alison is supportive of throll TarkumColl. As usual she is watching out for me, and she has blocked me again. Alison, have you anything better to do with your time than spy out for me. Get a life. There are some border guards needed in North Korea, not think of applying? You'll do very well! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Quit messing around, revert-warring and generally causing trouble for all and sundry and you won't have much problems. I've no interest nor care for 'TarkumColl' or whoever. Many Irish articles are in my watchist (including "Ireland" - duh! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) ) so don't flatter yourself on that count (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

[Gold heart]

I think Alison is supportive of throll TarkumColl. As usual she is watching out for me, and she has blocked me again. Alison, have you anything better to do with your time than spy out for me. Get a life. There are some border guards needed in North Korea, not think of applying? You'll do very well! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Quit messing around, revert-warring and generally causing trouble for all and sundry and you won't have much problems. I've no interest nor care for 'TarkumColl' or whoever. Many Irish articles are in my watchist (including "Ireland" - duh! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) ) so don't flatter yourself on that count (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

He's anti-Muslim
He's anti-Jewish
He's anti-Scottish
He's anti-Irish

How does it feel to be supporting a racist d*khead? Sheese! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)



This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[guy]

He's anti-Muslin

Yes, I prefer cotton too.

[Alison]

He's anti-Muslin

Yes, I prefer cotton too.

It's the work of satin, I tell you!!

I think Alison is supportive of throll TarkumColl. As usual she is watching out for me, and she has blocked me again. Alison, have you anything better to do with your time than spy out for me. Get a life. There are some border guards needed in North Korea, not think of applying? You'll do very well! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Quit messing around, revert-warring and generally causing trouble for all and sundry and you won't have much problems. I've no interest nor care for 'TarkumColl' or whoever. Many Irish articles are in my watchist (including "Ireland" - duh! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) ) so don't flatter yourself on that count (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

He's anti-Muslin
He's anti-Jewish
He's anti-Scottish
He's anti-Irish

How does it feel to be supporting a racist d*khead? Sheese! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Nice try, but don't bother projecting his alleged failings onto me (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) What about Bastun et al? You've been causing so much disruption to those guys, it's just not funny.

Yeah, yeah. I'm taking the bait again. Go away, GH.

[wikiwhistle]

It's the work of satin, I tell you!!

Clearly that would be my favourite above all other fabrics (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

As to Tharky, I shouldn't 'do a LaraLove' and try to support or explicate his views. Maybe I could just go 'he's my mate, so to everything he says, hooray!' instead lol. To everything his 'enemies' say- 'boo! hiss!' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Gold heart]

Nice try, but don't bother projecting his alleged failings onto me (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) What about Bastun et al? You've been causing so much disruption to those guys, it's just not funny.

Yeah, yeah. I'm taking the bait again. GH.

Well if you protect his pov-edits, then the question is worth asking?

It's up to you and your cohorts to answer that, if it suits. It's a free country, nice try, but I'm not swallowing any racism from any quarters. We all know what happened in the 1930s when good people were brushed aside.


Then stop throlling, and stop looking out for me,

thank you kindly! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

[Astrotrain]

Gold Heart, why do you still edit on Wikipedia if blocked? Just a question, as someone recently banned.

[Gold heart]

Gold Heart, why do you still edit on Wikipedia if blocked? Just a question, as someone recently banned.

Firstly may I say, that if you have just gotten banned, and you want to get back editing, don't sock like I do. RMS who was the arch-villain according to some admins that you know well, is being "welcomed home" with open arms. So the trick is to keep cool. As for me, I have no interest in establishing an editing profile. Lately someone challenged me to become an admin within six months, but I have better things to do, and declined the offer.
Why do I still edit. Lately I'm asking myself that question more and more. It galled me to see Irish Wikipedia being ruined by basically three admins, SirFozzie, Rockpocket, who were simply out looking for trouble, and got it. Most of the good Irish editors have left the project, feeling quite frustrated with the crap that was going on between misguided admins and insistent editors. It seemed that the admins involved didn't have the qualities to deliver a peaceful editing environment, and in fact added to the chaos. That left me very disillusioned. But there were a few good editors remaining, and really I stayed for them, but they are not editing so much now.
Still, the friction between British and Irish editors remains, and little is being done about it. While the admins play Lego in 'encyclopaedia building', the 'eternal city' burns. Let it burn. More cyclonepedia than encyclopaedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[powercorrupts]

He's anti-Muslin

Yes, I prefer cotton too.

It's the work of satin, I tell you!!

Only theistic satin, though, not the proper satin.

Why am I picturing a bald head and a goatie? And a very shiny dark purple cloak.

[Astrotrain]

Gold Heart, why do you still edit on Wikipedia if blocked? Just a question, as someone recently banned.

Firstly may I say, that if you have just gotten banned, and you want to get back editing, don't sock like I do. RMS who was the arch-villain according to some admins that you know well, is being "welcomed home" with open arms. So the trick is to keep cool. As for me, I have no interest in establishing an editing profile. Lately someone challenged me to become an admin within six months, but I have better things to do, and declined the offer.
Why do I still edit. Lately I'm asking myself that question more and more. It galled me to see Irish Wikipedia being ruined by basically three admins, SirFozzie, Rockpocket, who were simply out looking for trouble, and got it. Most of the good Irish editors have left the project, feeling quite frustrated with the crap that was going on between misguided admins and insistent editors. It seemed that the admins involved didn't have the qualities to deliver a peaceful editing environment, and in fact added to the chaos. That left me very disillusioned. But there were a few good editors remaining, and really I stayed for them, but they are not editing so much now.
Still, the friction between British and Irish editors remains, and little is being done about it. While the admins play Lego in 'encyclopaedia building', the 'eternal city' burns. Let it burn. More cyclonepedia than encyclopaedia. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

I would agree that many of the good editors have now left or are blocked. I was never really interested in the politics side, and rarely contributed to that side. It seems Wikipedia is more interested in rule making and sanctions than article contributions.

[wikiwhistle]

Only theistic satin, though, not the proper satin.

Why am I picturing a bald head and a goatie? And a very shiny dark purple cloak.

Who me? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I'm blonde, love pink, and am a lady (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

Popcorn! Get it here! Popcorn!

Bardy renamed to HighKing (yuk - why I wonder)

Now warring openly with Tharky (or vice versa)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...ritish_Isles.22

Interesting - it sure looks like the bi boys are organized cos they were on this in a flash. Filed at 16:37 and 2 1/2 pages of text in 90 minutes.

Usual proBI suspects + lots of Tharkys mates like Sticky Parking and Chillum. There seems to be a general tactic of attacking bardy as being anti-Brit and hope that with lots of handwaving it'll get trashed. I have no complaint with anyone but bardy is taking a lot of abuse (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

If anyone cares though, ive looked at bardys complaint where he names 5 articles. IMHO hes right in all 5, yet not one admin has stepped in.

Dya think he still believe that being right is enough (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) How long before he learns how to be abusive enough to survive? Will he survive?

[ComeGetMe]

Ali, you mentioned that bardy emailed you - but you never got involved? Youre Irish - whats your opinion? Are you happy enough with the way the community is behaving and handling this? Is it just me or does this look worse-than-normal? I mean normally the editors get angry and spit blood and fume, so ya feel giving as good as getting applies, but this isnt like that.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

If anyone cares though, ive looked at bardys complaint where he names 5 articles. IMHO hes right in all 5, yet not one admin has stepped in.

Nah! He's right on Ye_Olde_Trip_To_Jerusalem, wrong on Porteous_family, and the others are debatable (Salve_Regina, Scottish_Green_Party and Furry_Dance). Funny thing is, at Furry Dance (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) old Bardy (or is now Kingy) has reverted himself. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

How strange that he's changed his name immediately after having two blocks and I think a previous recent ANI thread about him.

Usual proBI suspects + lots of Tharkys mates like Sticky Parking and Chillum. There seems to be a general tactic of attacking bardy as being anti-Brit and hope that with lots of handwaving it'll get trashed. I have no complaint with anyone but bardy is taking a lot of abuse (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The thing is, supposedly on ANI, it's not about a content dispute it's about the conduct of editors. You can't deny Bardcom does nothing but remove references to "British Isles" and then defend his removals. It might not look like it unless you go back some edits now over the last few days , but at least Tharky also edits and argues over other issues, even if in a related spirit.

Oh I think Chillum/ Until 1=2 is an American so I don't think he's purely motivated by being a friend of Tharky, but must just share his opinion of Bardcom or these issues.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[ComeGetMe]

If anyone cares though, ive looked at bardys complaint where he names 5 articles. IMHO hes right in all 5, yet not one admin has stepped in.

Nah! He's right on Ye_Olde_Trip_To_Jerusalem, wrong on Porteous_family, and the others are debatable (Salve_Regina, Scottish_Green_Party and Furry_Dance). Funny thing is, at Furry Dance (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) old Bardy (or is now Kingy) has reverted himself. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

He reverted himself cos he learned the last lesson *real good* about breaching 3rr. If he hadnt reverted hed have been blocked again. Evolution must count for something i suppose.

Well, bardy was right on the Jerusalem article. Somebody reverted and the reference now says england. He was right on the Salve Regina article too, somebody has reverted and provided a reference for anglican.

I also say hes right on the other articles based on references. But hey, youre missing the complete point. Being right isnt worth crap and Hi!kingy is too stupid to realise that wikipedia works by sucking up to admins, not by "contri-freakin-buting". Dumbass (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

How strange that he's changed his name immediately after having two blocks and I think a previous recent ANI thread about him.

Usual proBI suspects + lots of Tharkys mates like Sticky Parking and Chillum. There seems to be a general tactic of attacking bardy as being anti-Brit and hope that with lots of handwaving it'll get trashed. I have no complaint with anyone but bardy is taking a lot of abuse (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The thing is, supposedly on ANI, it's not about a content dispute it's about the conduct of editors. You can't deny Bardcom does nothing but remove references to "British Isles" and then defend his removals. It might not look like it unless you go back some edits now over the last few days , but at least Tharky also edits and argues over other issues, even if in a related spirit.

Oh I think Chillum/ Until 1=2 is an American so I don't think he's purely motivated by being a friend of Tharky, but must just share his opinion of Bardcom or these issues.

Yeah clever proBI crowd. Make it look like a content dispute. Whereas hi!kingy is complaining about the behaviour of Tharky about inserting or using British Isles without providing references.

So what if hikingy is fixated on British Isles. Our friend WMC is fixated on climate change. Tharky was fixated on muslim related articles. Although i can see why the proBI crowrd would hate it. And "defending" his removals seems to me the same as discuss the reasons and ask for references. And tharkys arguments make me laugh (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) I think he just trying to get hikingy to say somethign uncivil (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[wikiwhistle]

The thing is, supposedly on ANI, it's not about a content dispute it's about the conduct of editors. You can't deny Bardcom does nothing but remove references to "British Isles" and then defend his removals. It might not look like it unless you go back some edits now over the last few days , but at least Tharky also edits and argues over other issues, even if in a related spirit.

Oh I think Chillum/ Until 1=2 is an American so I don't think he's purely motivated by being a friend of Tharky, but must just share his opinion of Bardcom or these issues.

Yeah clever proBI crowd. Make it look like a content dispute. Whereas hi!kingy is complaining about the behaviour of Tharky about inserting or using British Isles without providing references.

So what if hikingy is fixated on British Isles. Our friend WMC is fixated on climate change. Tharky was fixated on muslim related articles. Although i can see why the proBI crowrd would hate it. And "defending" his removals seems to me the same as discuss the reasons and ask for references. And tharkys arguments make me laugh (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) I think he just trying to get hikingy to say somethign uncivil (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

I'm not saying it's a content dispute, I'm saying that you were talking about the content. As for Thark- he's not particularly obsessed with Muslim-related articles- I think he's only been on "Muhammad" or at any rate they make up a very small part of his edits, mainly, he likes anything British. Tharky makes me laugh too- but I don't think he'll have to make Bardcom do anything, but fear H!King will do all the damage to himself, himself.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[Alison]

Ali, you mentioned that bardy emailed you - but you never got involved? Youre Irish - whats your opinion? Are you happy enough with the way the community is behaving and handling this? Is it just me or does this look worse-than-normal? I mean normally the editors get angry and spit blood and fume, so ya feel giving as good as getting applies, but this isnt like that.

No, I'm not happy with the way the community is handling this, as it happens. Not that it's 'worse than normal' either; normal can be pretty bad at the best of times.

I'd get stuck in but I'm largely off-wikipedia now and have been for some time (check my edits). Burned out from dealing with stuff, don't need the grief and hatred from 'certain people', and am just far too busy with the real-world of kids/home/job to get involved. As it is, I'm hanging out here for a break from it all but ... well, I think I'll move on. Don't need to put up with Wikipedia shite here either.

In short; I'd like to see what I can do but haven't the energy right now.

[ComeGetMe]

Ali, you mentioned that bardy emailed you - but you never got involved? Youre Irish - whats your opinion? Are you happy enough with the way the community is behaving and handling this? Is it just me or does this look worse-than-normal? I mean normally the editors get angry and spit blood and fume, so ya feel giving as good as getting applies, but this isnt like that.

No, I'm not happy with the way the community is handling this, as it happens. Not that it's 'worse than normal' either; normal can be pretty bad at the best of times.

I'd get stuck in but I'm largely off-wikipedia now and have been for some time (check my edits). Burned out from dealing with stuff, don't need the grief and hatred from 'certain people', and am just far too busy with the real-world of kids/home/job to get involved. As it is, I'm hanging out here for a break from it all but ... well, I think I'll move on. Don't need to put up with Wikipedia shite here either.

In short; I'd like to see what I can do but haven't the energy right now.

Been there. "Dont let the bastards grind out down" as the well known u2 track goes.

Stay away. I was only wondering. Some things only hikingy can learn himself.

[Gold heart]

Yeah clever proBI crowd. Make it look like a content dispute. Whereas hi!kingy is complaining about the behaviour of Tharky about inserting or using British Isles without providing references.

So what if hikingy is fixated on British Isles. Our friend WMC is fixated on climate change. Tharky was fixated on muslim related articles. Although i can see why the proBI crowrd would hate it. And "defending" his removals seems to me the same as discuss the reasons and ask for references. And tharkys arguments make me laugh (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) I think he just trying to get hikingy to say somethign uncivil (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

TharkumColl is fixated on removing the name "Ireland" and inserting the term "British Isles" into articles. It seems to be motivated by patriotism. Where does this stop, God only knows. If this is the way Wikipedia is going forward, then it is a very bad omen indeed. There are many more British editors than Irish editors, so a British point of view maintains sway. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

Yeah clever proBI crowd. Make it look like a content dispute. Whereas hi!kingy is complaining about the behaviour of Tharky about inserting or using British Isles without providing references.

So what if hikingy is fixated on British Isles. Our friend WMC is fixated on climate change. Tharky was fixated on muslim related articles. Although i can see why the proBI crowrd would hate it. And "defending" his removals seems to me the same as discuss the reasons and ask for references. And tharkys arguments make me laugh (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) I think he just trying to get hikingy to say somethign uncivil (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

TharkumColl is fixated on removing the name "Ireland" and inserting the term "British Isles" into articles. It seems to be motivated by patriotism.

I wouldn't like to give an insight into his behaviour, but I will say this is just his interest over the last week or so on wiki- he has other activities he engages in on wiki too, unlike !King.

[ComeGetMe]

Yeah clever proBI crowd. Make it look like a content dispute. Whereas hi!kingy is complaining about the behaviour of Tharky about inserting or using British Isles without providing references.

So what if hikingy is fixated on British Isles. Our friend WMC is fixated on climate change. Tharky was fixated on muslim related articles. Although i can see why the proBI crowrd would hate it. And "defending" his removals seems to me the same as discuss the reasons and ask for references. And tharkys arguments make me laugh (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) I think he just trying to get hikingy to say somethign uncivil (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

TharkumColl is fixated on removing the name "Ireland" and inserting the term "British Isles" into articles. It seems to be motivated by patriotism.

I wouldn't like to give an insight into his behaviour, but I will say this is just his interest over the last week or so on wiki- he has other activities he engages in on wiki too, unlike !King.

I dont know why you keep saying this like its a bad thing. And going back over !King he has other interests like whisky, the irish famine, and complex event processing (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Being fixated isnt the bad thing. But being fixated and being an asshole by not discussing and not providing references and all that. Thats bad. From what im seeing, on a scale of assholeness, its Tharky winning and ahead by miles. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[guy]

It's very simple. You use whichever term is more informative and appropriate in the context. It is more informative to say that Cork is in Ireland than in the British Isles. On the other hand, it is more informative to say that the Shannon is the longest river in the British Isles than that it is the longest river in Ireland.

[ComeGetMe]

It's very simple. You use whichever term is more informative and appropriate in the context. It is more informative to say that Cork is in Ireland than in the British Isles. On the other hand, it is more informative to say that the Shannon is the longest river in the British Isles than that it is the longest river in Ireland.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) Love it! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) So ignore all the whiners and moaners that dont like to see British Isles and who keep asking for pesky references. Just tell them that its more informative (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

This is gonna be a great! encyclopedia! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Old bardy - sorry the High King - is a card, isn't he just (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Get a load of his latest antics; he just won't give in (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Right now at Furry Dance he's got some poor sucker bending over backwards to produce references but none are to the Bard's liking (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Tell you what, find me a case where - eventually - Bardy/The King hasn't got his way (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) He's persistent is the old bugger. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Kelly Martin]

It's very simple. You use whichever term is more informative and appropriate in the context. It is more informative to say that Cork is in Ireland than in the British Isles. On the other hand, it is more informative to say that the Shannon is the longest river in the British Isles than that it is the longest river in Ireland.

Aaagh, a rule that requires thought! We can't have that! We must have simple, obvious rules that any robot can implement!

[Gold heart]

It's very simple. You use whichever term is more informative and appropriate in the context. It is more informative to say that Cork is in Ireland than in the British Isles. On the other hand, it is more informative to say that the Shannon is the longest river in the British Isles than that it is the longest river in Ireland.

Aaagh, a rule that requires thought! We can't have that! We must have simple, obvious rules that any robot can implement!

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

[ComeGetMe]

Old bardy - sorry the High King - is a card, isn't he just (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Get a load of his latest antics; he just won't give in (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Right now at Furry Dance he's got some poor sucker bending over backwards to produce references but none are to the Bard's liking (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

Tell you what, find me a case where - eventually - Bardy/The King hasn't got his way (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) He's persistent is the old bugger. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

I wonder if his name is in response to WMC asking him what he was smoking? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

I looked at the Furry Dance article. So the "poor sucker" deleted a reference from google books on british customs, and replaced it with some homebaked reference from some cornwall lovers hosted on a free tesco.net website. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

That's funny. Its funny that hiking is being sooo patient on the outside while hes probably kicked his cat to death with frustration. Whats his breaking point is what i want to know.

[guy]

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

And there we have the problem in a nutshell. Anti-British people don't like the term and will never use it. Of course, a large chunk of Ireland is (to their disgust, but with the support of the majority of people living there) still part of the United Kingdom. And "some British people" is an odd phrase. The overwhelming majority of British people do, as do most people in Australia, for example. And what alternative is there other than "these islands" (unhelpful outside the British Isles) or some cumbersome pharase like "The United Kingdom, Eire, the Isle of Man and let's have an argument about the Channel Isles"?

[Gold heart]

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

And there we have the problem in a nutshell. Anti-British people don't like the term and will never use it. Of course, a large chunk of Ireland is (to their disgust, but with the support of the majority of people living there) still part of the United Kingdom. And "some British people" is an odd phrase. The overwhelming majority of British people do, as do most people in Australia, for example. And what alternative is there other than "these islands" (unhelpful outside the British Isles) or some cumbersome pharase like "The United Kingdom, Eire, the Isle of Man and let's have an argument about the Channel Isles"?

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

This post has been edited by guy:

[wikiwhistle]

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Everyone in England. Wales and Scotland that I've ever known has not had a problem with it, nor anyone from Ireland that I've ever met. I've only seen this issue on wikipedia, though I admit it's been mentioned in the press sometimes- but I only know that after the rare few who care about this issue, an example of "political correctness gone mad" mentioned it on wikipedia. Baseball bugs made an amusing comment.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

["The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

But it's utter bloody bollocks, that's the problem. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Everyone in England. Wales and Scotland that I've ever known has not had a problem with it, nor anyone from Ireland that I've ever met. I've only seen this issue on wikipedia, though I admit it's been mentioned in the press sometimes- but I only know that after the rare few who care about this issue, an example of "political correctness gone mad" mentioned it on wikipedia. Baseball bugs made an amusing comment.

You should get out more. Ive asked loads of people recently and nearly every irish person hated it, and most everybody else couldnt give a crap. Not giving a crap is different than insisting that it is used everywhere by the way (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) Ive yet to meet someone like Tharky or the rest of the proBI brigade in real life that insists on it. Oh oh. Maybe i should get out more too (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Oh yes! I like it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) This gets better by the minute (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Have a look a the discussion here, at the end of the page Talk:Porteous_family

We have an expert (Bruce) on the subject who's trying to engage the BardKing in a technical discussion. Here's the BardKing's reply. For your benefit I've inserted some in-line translation: (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Hi Agendum, I'm very interested in history (I don't give a flying f*** about history), mostly UK and Ireland (only Ireland), with a special interest in my own family genealogy. I confess that I'm not directly interested in the Porteus/Porteous family (they can go and **** themselves for all I care) other than that general interest. I'll revert the article for now (because it contains the words British Isles), seeing as you've nothing more to add at this time, but feel free to change when you've got the references (just so long as you don't put the words British Isles back in the article). Thank you and good luck with the research (now f*** off and don't come back bothering me again). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Wonder what BardKing's up to next? It's over to 'pedia again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

Oh yes! I like it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) This gets better by the minute (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Have a look a the discussion here, at the end of the page Talk:Porteous_family

We have an expert (Bruce) on the subject who's trying to engage the BardKing in a technical discussion. Here's the BardKing's reply. For your benefit I've inserted some in-line translation: (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Hi Agendum, I'm very interested in history (I don't give a flying f*** about history), mostly UK and Ireland (only Ireland), with a special interest in my own family genealogy. I confess that I'm not directly interested in the Porteus/Porteous family (they can go and **** themselves for all I care) other than that general interest. I'll revert the article for now (because it contains the words British Isles), seeing as you've nothing more to add at this time, but feel free to change when you've got the references (just so long as you don't put the words British Isles back in the article). Thank you and good luck with the research (now f*** off and don't come back bothering me again). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

Wonder what BardKing's up to next? It's over to 'pedia again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Funny! Pity hes not as witty as you...

[guy]

["The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

But not Greenland, the largest island in the Atlantic? And what about the Azores, Madeira, the Canary Islands and (undoubtedly British islands) the British Virgin Islands?

Oh, and here's an impeccable American source for the term:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/...%20Encyclopedia

[LessHorrid vanU]

Someone playing silly buggers with the Furry Dance? I may have to have a look at it - since the Midday Dance goes through (that is, in through the front door, out through the back door) the shop I work at - and see if I agree with what is referenced there.

[Yehudi]

The plot thickens.

The expression "British Islands" has been defined in the Interpretation Act 1978 as meaning the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. The Republic of Ireland is not included in this definition. ... The expression "British Isles" is geographical and not political. They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of Europe consisting of Great Britain, the whole of Ireland, the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Isle of Wight, the Scilly Islands, Lundy Island, the Channel Islands and many other smaller islands.

http://www.know-britain.com/general/great_britain.html

Actually, the island with the third highest population of the British Isles is rarely mentioned. It is Portsea Island on which Portsmouth stands.

[Gold heart]

The plot thickens.

The expression "British Islands" has been defined in the Interpretation Act 1978 as meaning the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. The Republic of Ireland is not included in this definition. ... The expression "British Isles" is geographical and not political. They are a group of islands off the northwest coast of Europe consisting of Great Britain, the whole of Ireland, the Orkney and Shetland Islands, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Isle of Wight, the Scilly Islands, Lundy Island, the Channel Islands and many other smaller islands.

http://www.know-britain.com/general/great_britain.html

Actually, the island with the third highest population of the British Isles is rarely mentioned. It is Portsea Island on which Portsmouth stands.

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles, but not all of "The Atlantic Archepaligo", Iceland and the Faroe Islands are not British Isles.

Indeed! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Did you ever see so much bullshit? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

War goes on over the river Shannon in Ireland. British admin, John, locks the article in "The British Isles Brigade" version. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[Sarah777]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

[Derktar]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. :D

Do I sign this????????

Welcome to the Review.

[Sarah777]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

Welcome to the Review.

Oooops! Thank you Mr Ops - I'm having some problems with the gear-stick here...where is reverse?

[Gold heart]

Oooops! Thank you Mr Ops - I'm having some problems with the gear-stick here...where is reverse?

Hi Sarah777, welcome to the enlightened zone of free thought and free speech. You can reverse anything here, just press the edit button.

"~~~~" We don't use squiggles here. Just pure "clear straight thinking"! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

Use faces for mood expression. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[powercorrupts]

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

And there we have the problem in a nutshell. Anti-British people don't like the term and will never use it. Of course, a large chunk of Ireland is (to their disgust, but with the support of the majority of people living there) still part of the United Kingdom. And "some British people" is an odd phrase. The overwhelming majority of British people do, as do most people in Australia, for example. And what alternative is there other than "these islands" (unhelpful outside the British Isles) or some cumbersome pharase like "The United Kingdom, Eire, the Isle of Man and let's have an argument about the Channel Isles"?

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

[powercorrupts]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

You already have. You get away with absolute murder on Wikpedia and are continually protected like a 6 year old child, I wonder what you'll be like here?

And is Wiki Review ready for all this? Plastic Celts just never shut up...

And what is the WR policy on anti-British racism? Where is it on the universal scale of bigotry? Somewhere behind the Muslims I expect. I expect to see a good kicking.

The myth is that Wikipedia is some kind of "pro-British POVist" swamp. The reality is that Britain exists (!), and that a number of articles are kept knee-capped from advancement by a group of highly politicised people who wish for a few political things:

The end to the term British Isles, the complete unification of Ireland, and the evils of the interchangeable (to them) 'British'/'British Empire' highlighted above everything else, no matter what the relative importance in the article is.

The fact that people are still exploring peace in Ireland and no one wants their fury right now matters not a jot to them. And Wikipedia being Wikipedia, the obsessive will get their way.

[SirFozzie]

Hooboy. I sense a great disturbance in the WIkipedia Review, as if millions of posts cried out and were suddenly Tarpitted...

[guy]

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles

They are British islands (not Isles) in the sense that they are former British colonies. How much more then is Ireland a British island in that it was formerly entirely within the United Kingdom, and part of it still is. I welcome Gold heart's agreement with me.

[ComeGetMe]

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles

They are British islands (not Isles) in the sense that they are former British colonies. How much more then is Ireland a British island in that it was formerly entirely within the United Kingdom, and part of it still is. I welcome Gold heart's agreement with me.

The down-unders still tip their hats at the queen. In a sense it makes them british still. I can see where GH is coming from. The irish get violently ill at the very thought (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Sure, ireland used be british - so used the usa for that matter.

Imagine the scene from the "life of brian" taking place in dublin?

STAN:
They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers.
REG:
Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?!
XERXES:
The red post boxes and Nelsons pillar.
LORETTA:
Oh, yeah. Remember what the city used to be like?
REG:
Yeah. All right. I'll grant you the red post boxes and Nelsons pillar.
MATTHIAS:
And the railways.
REG:
Well, yeah. Obviously the railways. I mean, the railways go without saying, don't they? But apart from the red pillar boxes, Nelsons pillar, and the railways--
COMMANDO:
Hospitals.
XERXES:
Medicine.
COMMANDO #2:
University.
REG:
Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
COMMANDO #1:
And Guinness.
COMMANDOS:
Oh my God! Yes...
FRANCIS:
Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really have missed, Reg. Huh.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[Gold heart]

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles

They are British islands (not Isles) in the sense that they are former British colonies. How much more then is Ireland a British island in that it was formerly entirely within the United Kingdom, and part of it still is. I welcome Gold heart's agreement with me.

The down-unders still tip their hats at the queen. In a sense it makes them british still. I can see where GH is coming from. The irish get violently ill at the very thought (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Sure, ireland used be british - so used the usa for that matter.

Imagine the scene from the "life of brian" taking place in dublin?
"blah, blah,,,,,,blah" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

I believe we can thank the Turks for modern universities, as in University of Constantinople, and the Irish did their bit by spreading learning throughout Britain and Europe in the dark ages.

Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles. To me, being partly English myself too, it seems a very strange mission indeed. I'm afraid that Wikipedia is being used for political or patriotic purposes, which is very disappointing, and may well indeed irrevocably damage the project's credibility if allowed to proceed, in that good editors will not be inclined to continue with an encyclopedia that is subject to orchestration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining common currency among geographers, as it includes the Faroe Islands area, which was formed at the same period. Channel Islands, which geologically connect with France, are not included. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)


This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Hey (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

The Bard King has got himself a Barnstar (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) How about that (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

There's a new user called Johnpigg (I love it) who's dishing em out like they're going out of fashion. He's even awarded one to that aficionado of Anglo-Irish détente, Sarah777.

[guy]

The term "Atlantic Archipelago" is already in use to mean not the British Isles but the Canaries and Tenerife. For example:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/304...ijacking17.html

http://www.spanish-holidayhomes.co.uk/regi...las-palmas.html

Still, I'm sure the Spanish Government won't mind if Gold heart hijacks the term.

[Gold heart]

The term "Atlantic Archipelago" is already in use to mean not the British Isles but the Canaries and Tenerife. For example:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/304...ijacking17.html

http://www.spanish-holidayhomes.co.uk/regi...las-palmas.html

Still, I'm sure the Spanish Government won't mind if Gold heart hijacks the term.

<Chuckles> I think those are adjective + common noun contexts.

Click here for more info on "Atlantic Archipelago" . I believe that the term has strong coinage amongst academics.

[Sarah777]

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

And there we have the problem in a nutshell. Anti-British people don't like the term and will never use it. Of course, a large chunk of Ireland is (to their disgust, but with the support of the majority of people living there) still part of the United Kingdom. And "some British people" is an odd phrase. The overwhelming majority of British people do, as do most people in Australia, for example. And what alternative is there other than "these islands" (unhelpful outside the British Isles) or some cumbersome pharase like "The United Kingdom, Eire, the Isle of Man and let's have an argument about the Channel Isles"?

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

You sound a bit of a deranged British nationalist PowerPerson! And I'm only two, not 6, so I need to be cut some slack. I'm chuckling at the idea you have that I can't cut it in big bad Wiki Review - I reckon if you can most anyone could! Regards to Susan.

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles

They are British islands (not Isles) in the sense that they are former British colonies. How much more then is Ireland a British island in that it was formerly entirely within the United Kingdom, and part of it still is. I welcome Gold heart's agreement with me.

The down-unders still tip their hats at the queen. In a sense it makes them british still. I can see where GH is coming from. The irish get violently ill at the very thought (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Sure, ireland used be british - so used the usa for that matter.

Imagine the scene from the "life of brian" taking place in dublin?
"blah, blah,,,,,,blah" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

I believe we can thank the Turks for modern universities, as in University of Constantinople, and the Irish did their bit by spreading learning throughout Britain and Europe in the dark ages.

Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles. To me, being partly English myself too, it seems a very strange mission indeed. I'm afraid that Wikipedia is being used for political or patriotic purposes, which is very disappointing, and may well indeed irrevocably damage the project's credibility if allowed to proceed, in that good editors will not be inclined to continue with an encyclopedia that is subject to orchestration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining common currency among geographers, as it includes the Faroe Islands area, which was formed at the same period. Channel Islands, which geologically connect with France, are not included. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I asked him for an award and he kindly obliged. He's what we'd call a "sound man". Nothing to do with acoustics.

Ireland certainly isn't a British isle. The term British Isles is irrelevant since 1920, and is not being used any longer. It's an old political term from the empire days. Some British people still use the term because of Northern Ireland.

And there we have the problem in a nutshell. Anti-British people don't like the term and will never use it. Of course, a large chunk of Ireland is (to their disgust, but with the support of the majority of people living there) still part of the United Kingdom. And "some British people" is an odd phrase. The overwhelming majority of British people do, as do most people in Australia, for example. And what alternative is there other than "these islands" (unhelpful outside the British Isles) or some cumbersome pharase like "The United Kingdom, Eire, the Isle of Man and let's have an argument about the Channel Isles"?

I have heard the term used in New Zealand, and once in Australia, otherwise most people don't understand what the term means. Nobody seems to know if the Channel Islands are included or not, so it's all very ambiguous and unclear. Then the argument gets into whether the Faroe Islands should be included, as they were formed at the same geological time etc etc.

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

You sound a bit of a deranged British nationalist PowerPerson! And I'm only two, not 6, so I need to be cut some slack. I'm chuckling at the idea you have that I can't cut it in big bad Wiki Review - I reckon if you can most anyone could! Regards to Susan.

And New Zealand and Australia are British Isles

They are British islands (not Isles) in the sense that they are former British colonies. How much more then is Ireland a British island in that it was formerly entirely within the United Kingdom, and part of it still is. I welcome Gold heart's agreement with me.

The down-unders still tip their hats at the queen. In a sense it makes them british still. I can see where GH is coming from. The irish get violently ill at the very thought (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Sure, ireland used be british - so used the usa for that matter.

Imagine the scene from the "life of brian" taking place in dublin?
"blah, blah,,,,,,blah" (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

I believe we can thank the Turks for modern universities, as in University of Constantinople, and the Irish did their bit by spreading learning throughout Britain and Europe in the dark ages.

Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles. To me, being partly English myself too, it seems a very strange mission indeed. I'm afraid that Wikipedia is being used for political or patriotic purposes, which is very disappointing, and may well indeed irrevocably damage the project's credibility if allowed to proceed, in that good editors will not be inclined to continue with an encyclopedia that is subject to orchestration. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining good coinage, as it is a neutral name and includes all of the islands of that area, including the Faroe Islands, and Iceland.

Good coinage! lol! If you keep saying it it must be true.

How about the Atlantis Archipelago?

"The Atlantic Archipelago" is gaining common currency among geographers, as it includes the Faroe Islands area, which was formed at the same period. Channel Islands, which geologically connect with France, are not included. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I asked him for an award and he kindly obliged. He's what we'd call a "sound man". Nothing to do with acoustics.

No matter what I reply to it ends up here...I guess one is doing something wrong. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

Please try to reign in the nested quotes. They are making the thread harder to follow. Perhaps isolating the exact quote that the poster wishes to respond to would help.

[Sarah777]

Please try to reign in the nested quotes. They are making the thread harder to follow. Perhaps isolating the exact quote that the poster wishes to respond to would help.

Sorry about that! I just figured it out - I was replying to the message above the one I meant to; you really ought to make that clearer. There are a lot of stupid folk like myself out there - they are especially prevalent in the Wiki Admin ranks which means they are here is some numbers. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

Please try to reign in the nested quotes. They are making the thread harder to follow. Perhaps isolating the exact quote that the poster wishes to respond to would help.

Sorry about that! I just figured it out - I was replying to the message above the one I meant to; you really ought to make that clearer. There are a lot of stupid folk like myself out there - they are especially prevalent in the Wiki Admin ranks which means they are here is some numbers. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

That's ok. Welcome to Wikipedia Review.

[Sarah777]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

You already have. You get away with absolute murder on Wikpedia and are continually protected like a 6 year old child, I wonder what you'll be like here?

And is Wiki Review ready for all this? Plastic Celts just never shut up...

And what is the WR policy on anti-British racism? Where is it on the universal scale of bigotry? Somewhere behind the Muslims I expect. I expect to see a good kicking.

The myth is that Wikipedia is some kind of "pro-British POVist" swamp. The reality is that Britain exists (!), and that a number of articles are kept knee-capped from advancement by a group of highly politicised people who wish for a few political things:

The end to the term British Isles, the complete unification of Ireland, and the evils of the interchangeable (to them) 'British'/'British Empire' highlighted above everything else, no matter what the relative importance in the article is.

The fact that people are still exploring peace in Ireland and no one wants their fury right now matters not a jot to them. And Wikipedia being Wikipedia, the obsessive will get their way.

I'm only two - gimme a break. Based on the fatuous statements above I must assume you are one of those British Nationalists who don't like to be called British Nationalists. (I don't blame you for that). I guess "plastic Celts" could be regarded as racist tripe but I'm making allowances for you.
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British.
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland".
(3) While claiming that modern Ireland is British you seem to be, rather bizarrely, claiming that the British Empire wasn't British! You'd make a fine Wiki Admin, to be sure.

[powercorrupts]

Hi! I just discovered this site and saw my name mentioned. And I noticed Gold Heart and Alison were communing here, which, to say the least surprised me. So I registered and the gracious Moderator accepted my application for membership for which I am most thankful. I'm a Wiki editor who's just turned TWO and I come to this thread because I'd be 100% behind (several steps perhaps) Bardcom in his efforts to tone down British Nationalist POV in Ireland-related articles.

(I can't say British Nationalist on Wiki 'cos it seems yer average sensitive Anglo-editor can't distinguish Britishness from the BNPness, understandably no doubt)

So, lay off the editor-formerly-known-as-Bardcom Mr Banned Editor. Desist. I worship the guy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Do I sign this????????

You already have. You get away with absolute murder on Wikpedia and are continually protected like a 6 year old child, I wonder what you'll be like here?

And is Wiki Review ready for all this? Plastic Celts just never shut up...

And what is the WR policy on anti-British racism? Where is it on the universal scale of bigotry? Somewhere behind the Muslims I expect. I expect to see a good kicking.

The myth is that Wikipedia is some kind of "pro-British POVist" swamp. The reality is that Britain exists (!), and that a number of articles are kept knee-capped from advancement by a group of highly politicised people who wish for a few political things:

The end to the term British Isles, the complete unification of Ireland, and the evils of the interchangeable (to them) 'British'/'British Empire' highlighted above everything else, no matter what the relative importance in the article is.

The fact that people are still exploring peace in Ireland and no one wants their fury right now matters not a jot to them. And Wikipedia being Wikipedia, the obsessive will get their way.

I'm only two - gimme a break. Based on the fatuous statements above I must assume you are one of those British Nationalists who don't like to be called British Nationalists. (I don't blame you for that). I guess "plastic Celts" could be regarded as racist tripe but I'm making allowances for you.
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British.
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland".
(3) While claiming that modern Ireland is British you seem to be, rather bizarrely, claiming that the British Empire wasn't British! You'd make a fine Wiki Admin, to be sure.

(1) You have "no interest in "ending" the term British Isles"? So the two terms are supposed to run alongside each other? Even with the hugely documented use of 'British Isles' being used to include Ireland? How confusing is that? I'm sure you've said otherwise too.
(2) A classic plastic comment. (how is that term racist btw? It may be a jibe - but it's decidedly un-racist).
(3) Who claimed "that modern Ireland is British"? Not me, though I do see a shared culture to a degree - but the ROI is the ROI. I've never seen any "modern Ireland is British" statement on Wikepedia (apart from maybe a mad trolling IP, who I always suspect could be a puppet from the other side of the argument anyway). Or are you just scanning too quickly, and reacting before thinking, as usual? What you don't get is that the people you fight with tooth and claw are not the "British nationalists" you so rudely call them. Maybe one or two (like the dodgy Tharkuncoll perhaps) - but most of them are just British people. You just don't seem to get that at all.

You lied somewhere above:
"Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles."

Are you saying that the wildly differing instances of "British Isles" that Bardcom (aka 'HighKing' - deary me) is reverting have been put there deliberately by people to replace "Ireland"? Nothing like reversal is there - the very opposite is true. Make the enemy guilty of your crime. This is the way you argue though. WP to you is just a soapbox, and it's tiresome.

This post has been edited by powercorrupts:

[guy]

Click here for more info on "Atlantic Archipelago" .

What does that prove? I could write a Knol article saying it's the Canaries and Tenerife or the (largely British (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)) islands in the Caribbean. Actually, the term is used elsewhere in Wikipedia with various meanings, one of the hazards of having no overall editorial control.

[Sarah777]

You already have. You get away with absolute murder on Wikpedia and are continually protected like a 6 year old child, I wonder what you'll be like here?

And is Wiki Review ready for all this? Plastic Celts just never shut up...

And what is the WR policy on anti-British racism? Where is it on the universal scale of bigotry? Somewhere behind the Muslims I expect. I expect to see a good kicking.

The myth is that Wikipedia is some kind of "pro-British POVist" swamp. The reality is that Britain exists (!), and that a number of articles are kept knee-capped from advancement by a group of highly politicised people who wish for a few political things:

The end to the term British Isles, the complete unification of Ireland, and the evils of the interchangeable (to them) 'British'/'British Empire' highlighted above everything else, no matter what the relative importance in the article is.

The fact that people are still exploring peace in Ireland and no one wants their fury right now matters not a jot to them. And Wikipedia being Wikipedia, the obsessive will get their way.

I'm only two - gimme a break. Based on the fatuous statements above I must assume you are one of those British Nationalists who don't like to be called British Nationalists. (I don't blame you for that). I guess "plastic Celts" could be regarded as racist tripe but I'm making allowances for you.
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British.
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland".
(3) While claiming that modern Ireland is British you seem to be, rather bizarrely, claiming that the British Empire wasn't British! You'd make a fine Wiki Admin, to be sure.

(1) You have "no interest in "ending" the term British Isles"? So the two terms are supposed to run alongside each other? Even with the hugely documented use of 'British Isles' being used to include Ireland? How confusing is that? I'm sure you've said otherwise too.
(2) A classic plastic comment. (how is that term racist btw? It may be a jibe - but it's decidedly un-racist).
(3) Who claimed "that modern Ireland is British"? Not me, though I do see a shared culture to a degree - but the ROI is the ROI. I've never seen any "modern Ireland is British" statement on Wikepedia (apart from maybe a mad trolling IP, who I always suspect could be a puppet from the other side of the argument anyway). Or are you just scanning too quickly, and reacting before thinking, as usual? What you don't get is that the people you fight with tooth and claw are not the "British nationalists" you so rudely call them. Maybe one or two (like the dodgy Tharkuncoll perhaps) - but most of them are just British people. You just don't seem to get that at all.

You lied somewhere above:
"Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles."

Are you saying that the wildly differing instances of "British Isles" that Bardcom (aka 'HighKing' - deary me) is reverting have been put there deliberately by people to replace "Ireland"? Nothing like reversal is there - the very opposite is true. Make the enemy guilty of your crime. This is the way you argue though. WP to you is just a soapbox, and it's tiresome.

:I lied somewhere above? Not very WP:NPA, AGF or any of that stuff here I see!
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British. - yep, that still reads real clear to me - need I translate it into Creche to aid you comprehension?
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland". - you'll have to explain how this pretty unremarkable statement of my opinion is a classic plastic statement. I guess we need to step back a bit; you mean something with the phrase "plastic Paddy" that is different from the meaning I took; so maybe you tell me how YOU define the term? Then I'll tell you whether it is racist or not.
(3)You said modern Ireland is British and seem to want that POV rammed into various Irish Wiki articles. I can understand your inability to understand my points as they require a certain minimum level of education but I'm gobsmacked that you can't understand your own goobledigook!

This post has been edited by Sarah777:

[Sarah777]

Hey (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

The Bard King has got himself a Barnstar (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) How about that (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

There's a new user called Johnpigg (I love it) who's dishing em out like they're going out of fashion. He's even awarded one to that aficionado of Anglo-Irish détente, Sarah777.

He only awarded it after I shamelessly asked for one. But I am indeed an aficionado of Anglo-Irish détente, well spotted. And I reckon that stopping British editors inserting claims that Ireland is British into Wiki-articles would go a long way to helping that détente. I don't see any Irish editors trying to claim England is Irish, so the onus is on the sinner to stop the sinning.

To get back to the original point of this thread; Bard has issues with the misapplication of the term "British Isles" on Wiki. Regardless of motive, what he is doing is basic housekeeping. Like some of us commonly revert standard vandalism or do copyediting. It is the basic stuff needed to maintain the encyclopedia. I only become fussed about the term when it impinges on Ireland-related articles, my main area of activity.

This post has been edited by Sarah777:

[Gold heart]

Click here for more info on "Atlantic Archipelago" .

What does that prove? I could write a Knol article saying it's the Canaries and Tenerife or the (largely British (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)) islands in the Caribbean. Actually, the term is used elsewhere in Wikipedia with various meanings, one of the hazards of having no overall editorial control.

Agree with you there, although it has gained coinage because it includes the Faroe Islands, which are part of the island group, and they were never British controlled. Saying that, the term British Isles is used very loosely and inaccurately in Wikipedia too. I think that's what Bardcom was trying to correct, hence the thread.

[Poetlister]

Can we stop people using expressions like "English muffin", "French horn", "cor anglais", "cousin german", etc.?

[Sarah777]

Can we stop people using expressions like "English muffin", "French horn", "cor anglais", "cousin german", etc.?

Why would we? Are they politically motivated POV terms? Offensive? Outdated? If so then by all means stop using them.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Get over to Pedia quick. They're at it again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

CarterBar, Tharky, reverting the old bard like it's about to go out of fashion. Wonder whose going to bust 3RR first. Popcorn anyone? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[guy]

Are they politically motivated POV terms? Offensive? Outdated? If so then by all means stop using them.

When I use the term "British Isles" it is because it is the generaly accepted term in Britain and elsewhere. I have no POV in using it, nor do I consider it outdated. Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it offensive, like those who refuse to use the name County Londonderry.

[Sarah777]

Are they politically motivated POV terms? Offensive? Outdated? If so then by all means stop using them.

When I use the term "British Isles" it is because it is the generaly accepted term in Britain and elsewhere. I have no POV in using it, nor do I consider it outdated. Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it offensive, like those who refuse to use the name County Londonderry.

Hi Guy. It is offensive, in that it offends. Period. QED. "Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it" are classic weasel words. And, btw, hardly anyone actually uses "Londonderry" in ordinary speech - not even most Unionists. It is strictly political dressing. I'm surprised you don't object to it in fact if yer so NPOV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[guy]

Hi Guy. It is offensive, in that it offends. Period. QED. "Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it" are classic weasel words. And, btw, hardly anyone actually uses "Londonderry" in ordinary speech - not even most Unionists. It is strictly political dressing. I'm surprised you don't object to it in fact if yer so NPOV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

The expression "Atlantic Archipelago" is deeply offensive to me. Please remove all references to it from Wikipedia.

County Londonderry is the legal name, and has been for a long time. How is it excessively POV to agree with a long-standing law?

[ComeGetMe]

Get over to Pedia quick. They're at it again (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

CarterBar, Tharky, reverting the old bard like it's about to go out of fashion. Wonder whose going to bust 3RR first. Popcorn anyone? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Was away today and missed it! Goddammit! NEED MY POPCORN FIX!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

Tharky just reverts bardykings edits to piss him off, get a reaction, gaming the system. One day it might work, but his reverts are pretty peurile. Bardyking seems to be picking his edits a lot more carefully. Theres nothing in his recent batch that are even halfway controversial. Evolution at work? Pavlovs dog?

Hi Guy. It is offensive, in that it offends. Period. QED. "Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it" are classic weasel words. And, btw, hardly anyone actually uses "Londonderry" in ordinary speech - not even most Unionists. It is strictly political dressing. I'm surprised you don't object to it in fact if yer so NPOV. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

The expression "Atlantic Archipelago" is deeply offensive to me. Please remove all references to it from Wikipedia.

County Londonderry is the legal name, and has been for a long time. How is it excessively POV to agree with a long-standing law?

Yeah! I hate the word "Atlantic" too! Those atlanteans have a lot to answer for (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

[Gold heart]

The expression "Atlantic Archipelago" is deeply offensive to me. Please remove all references to it from Wikipedia.

County Londonderry is the legal name, and has been for a long time. How is it excessively POV to agree with a long-standing law?

"Atlantic Archipelago", sounds just perfectly NPOV, British Isles is a political term, that "some" just don't want to let go of. I find BI an irrelevant term, and a misnomer in modern times.
A few Wikipedians on one occasion, got very up in arms when I change Republic of Ireland to its proper & legal name Ireland, there was an edit war over my edit. I don't need blood-pressure. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)

[powercorrupts]

You already have. You get away with absolute murder on Wikpedia and are continually protected like a 6 year old child, I wonder what you'll be like here?

And is Wiki Review ready for all this? Plastic Celts just never shut up...

And what is the WR policy on anti-British racism? Where is it on the universal scale of bigotry? Somewhere behind the Muslims I expect. I expect to see a good kicking.

The myth is that Wikipedia is some kind of "pro-British POVist" swamp. The reality is that Britain exists (!), and that a number of articles are kept knee-capped from advancement by a group of highly politicised people who wish for a few political things:

The end to the term British Isles, the complete unification of Ireland, and the evils of the interchangeable (to them) 'British'/'British Empire' highlighted above everything else, no matter what the relative importance in the article is.

The fact that people are still exploring peace in Ireland and no one wants their fury right now matters not a jot to them. And Wikipedia being Wikipedia, the obsessive will get their way.

I'm only two - gimme a break. Based on the fatuous statements above I must assume you are one of those British Nationalists who don't like to be called British Nationalists. (I don't blame you for that). I guess "plastic Celts" could be regarded as racist tripe but I'm making allowances for you.
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British.
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland".
(3) While claiming that modern Ireland is British you seem to be, rather bizarrely, claiming that the British Empire wasn't British! You'd make a fine Wiki Admin, to be sure.

(1) You have "no interest in "ending" the term British Isles"? So the two terms are supposed to run alongside each other? Even with the hugely documented use of 'British Isles' being used to include Ireland? How confusing is that? I'm sure you've said otherwise too.
(2) A classic plastic comment. (how is that term racist btw? It may be a jibe - but it's decidedly un-racist).
(3) Who claimed "that modern Ireland is British"? Not me, though I do see a shared culture to a degree - but the ROI is the ROI. I've never seen any "modern Ireland is British" statement on Wikepedia (apart from maybe a mad trolling IP, who I always suspect could be a puppet from the other side of the argument anyway). Or are you just scanning too quickly, and reacting before thinking, as usual? What you don't get is that the people you fight with tooth and claw are not the "British nationalists" you so rudely call them. Maybe one or two (like the dodgy Tharkuncoll perhaps) - but most of them are just British people. You just don't seem to get that at all.

You lied somewhere above:
"Getting back to the nub of the problem. Some editors are removing the name Ireland from the encyclopedia, and replacing it with British Isles."

Are you saying that the wildly differing instances of "British Isles" that Bardcom (aka 'HighKing' - deary me) is reverting have been put there deliberately by people to replace "Ireland"? Nothing like reversal is there - the very opposite is true. Make the enemy guilty of your crime. This is the way you argue though. WP to you is just a soapbox, and it's tiresome.

:I lied somewhere above? Not very WP:NPA, AGF or any of that stuff here I see!
(1) I have no interest in "ending" the term British Isles - I just don't want it offensively misapplied to France, Ireland or anywhere that isn't British. - yep, that still reads real clear to me - need I translate it into Creche to aid you comprehension?
(2) I'm pretty indifferent to "the complete unification of Ireland". - you'll have to explain how this pretty unremarkable statement of my opinion is a classic plastic statement. I guess we need to step back a bit; you mean something with the phrase "plastic Paddy" that is different from the meaning I took; so maybe you tell me how YOU define the term? Then I'll tell you whether it is racist or not.
(3)You said modern Ireland is British and seem to want that POV rammed into various Irish Wiki articles. I can understand your inability to understand my points as they require a certain minimum level of education but I'm gobsmacked that you can't understand your own goobledigook!

(1) Will you talk a little Creche if I found examples where you said the term is gross in every way? (you are the 2 year old after all).

(2) So we know what plastic means. The Irish In Ireland don't want to bothered with this shit right now.

(3) I already told you I didn't say that. Why would I say "modern Ireland is British"? You must think I'm someone else. I would simply be contradicting everything else I say. Follow me, please... and don't be paranoid, or you'll never get my arguments.

[The Joy]

How about "The Western French Islands" or "French West Islands?" There! Problem solved!

[Alison]

Are they politically motivated POV terms? Offensive? Outdated? If so then by all means stop using them.

When I use the term "British Isles" it is because it is the generaly accepted term in Britain and elsewhere. I have no POV in using it, nor do I consider it outdated. Some people who have a particular POV may wish to call it offensive, like those who refuse to use the name County Londonderry.

Just a random comment; "County Londonderry" sounds really wacked to someone who speaks Irish, given that the place is actually "Doire dá Bhaoth"; the oak thicket. Sticking "London" in front of it; legit an' all as it may be, just doesn't parse right.

But whatever ....

[Sarah777]

(1) Will you talk a little Creche if I found examples where you said the term is gross in every way? (you are the 2 year old after all).

(2) So we know what plastic means. The Irish In Ireland don't want to bothered with this shit right now.

(3) I already told you I didn't say that. Why would I say "modern Ireland is British"? You must think I'm someone else. I would simply be contradicting everything else I say. Follow me, please... and don't be paranoid, or you'll never get my arguments.

I'll talk Creche to you anytime. And as one of the Irish-in-Ireland I can personally attest that the term British Isles is detested at least as much as the English football team; let's not get too politically correct here. You may wish the unwashed masses didn't bother with these things but, alas, your wishes aren't reality. Sob! (I suspect yer probably peed off about Lisbon too!) So - are you going to tell me what a "plastic Paddy" is so I can see if 'tis a racist term?

How about "The Western French Islands" or "French West Islands?" There! Problem solved!

What it lacks in geographical accuracy it gains in inoffensiveness. I'd live with it (or, on second thoughts.........)


This post has been edited by Sarah777:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Hey, hey, hey, It's hotting up again folks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Multiple reverts, abusive IPs, across the board edit wars, several editors now up against the old bard. I'm off over there again, might just partake of some recreational reverting meself, don't you know.

Pity it brings Wikipedia into such disrepute having coves like the old bard around the place, but what the hell, it's bloody good sport. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[ComeGetMe]

Hey, hey, hey, It's hotting up again folks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Multiple reverts, abusive IPs, across the board edit wars, several editors now up against the old bard. I'm off over there again, might just partake of some recreational reverting meself, don't you know.

Pity it brings Wikipedia into such disrepute having coves like the old bard around the place, but what the hell, it's bloody good sport. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Yup, theyre ganging up on old Bking again. I really dont know how he keeps so civil and cool. Id hate to be his cat. Hes got to be taking his frustration out on something.

I think its the crowds of proBI admins and editors that are trying so desperately but cant put bking out of business even when they gang up on him unfairly thats starting to show through. Id give him a barnstar if I could just for being so goddamn civil and nice and true and consistent.

Lots of vague accusations leveled at Bking about being disruptive, but thats just shorthand for wikipedia saying stop. I hope bking survives this round. Im out of popcorn again and this could be a doozy.

Whats the connection with chilllum I wonder?

[powercorrupts]

Hey, hey, hey, It's hotting up again folks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Multiple reverts, abusive IPs, across the board edit wars, several editors now up against the old bard. I'm off over there again, might just partake of some recreational reverting meself, don't you know.

Pity it brings Wikipedia into such disrepute having coves like the old bard around the place, but what the hell, it's bloody good sport. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Yup, theyre ganging up on old Bking again. I really dont know how he keeps so civil and cool. Id hate to be his cat. Hes got to be taking his frustration out on something.

I think its the crowds of proBI admins and editors that are trying so desperately but cant put bking out of business even when they gang up on him unfairly thats starting to show through. Id give him a barnstar if I could just for being so goddamn civil and nice and true and consistent.

Lots of vague accusations leveled at Bking about being disruptive, but thats just shorthand for wikipedia saying stop. I hope bking survives this round. Im out of popcorn again and this could be a doozy.

Whats the connection with chilllum I wonder?

HighDing (formerly Badcom) is certainly consistent (occasionally even correct - though usually on the broken clock principal) but nice? That phase he went through where he dished out warnings to everyone simply littered peoples Talk pages with red, and made them looked guilty of incivility when all they did was disagree with him, or discuss him - which he wouldn't tolerate either. How is that nice? It was an insidious and calculated 'paper trail' that eventually lead back to him, and rightly got him into trouble. He's not a bright person at all.

This post has been edited by powercorrupts:

[ComeGetMe]

HighDing (formerly Badcom) is certainly consistent (occasionally even correct - though usually on the broken clock principal) but nice? That phase he went through where he dished out warnings to everyone simply littered peoples Talk pages with red, and made them looked guilty of incivility when all they did was disagree with him, or discuss him - which he wouldn't tolerate either. How is that nice? It was an insidious and calculated 'paper trail' that eventually lead back to him, and rightly got him into trouble. He's not a bright person at all.

Hey nobody accused him of being bright. Pretty thick as he still seems to think that being right is what works on wikipedia when we all know that its a case of whoever has the biggest gang. And he doesnt and never will.

[ComeGetMe]

No theres a surprise. hibard is blocked for 3RRing. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I bet $100 that the block will be enforced anyway cos we all know the admins will never actually admit they got somethign wrong.

Ali? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Why dont you extend it just to show him that sending emails and asking for help just isnt playing the game. Maybe hell learn that getting kicked is for a reason

(Edit) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Just as good alison - welcoming EmpireFornever is innocent enough but is sure to send the right message to bking! I didnt know your evil streak was that broad!

hking is complaining of another puppet account called LemonMonday. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Own up now. Which one of you is it? Recreational editing? (cue evil laugh...)

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Students of the Bard will not have failed to notice (I love those double negatives (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) ) that there's an interesting sideshow going on at the moment. With the Old Bard being blocked for 3 days (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) - - come on, a week minimum, surely -- the action has moved to the old Bard's nemesis, one EmpireForever, who was, incidentally, blocked as well (for no good reason) for just one day. Anyway, this morning a new kid on the block appears, going by the delicious name of LemonMonday. But, before said lemon was able to make good more than about a dozen of the old bard's efforts at vandalism he was blocked. This blocking was effected by a jumped-up twirp known as Angus Mclellan from Belgium (I ask you!). Anyway, to cut a long story short, twirp thought lemon and empire were the same person, so he blocked lemon and bollocked empire (what a twat!). Then the Mistress Alison came along and checkusered them both not guilty - BUT SHE DIDN'T UNBLOCK LEMON (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) So lemon asks to be unblocked, but twirp's having none of it and as you can see is just ignoring the issue. He won't even apologise to empire.

So I gets to wondering - is a basic qualification to aspire to the dizzy heights of adminship that you must feature prominently in the Observer Book of Arrogant, Stupid Bastards? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) It certainly seems like it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Anyway, I'm off over Pedia again to make good a few more of Bardy's wrongdoings. See you later (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Alison]

Students of the Bard will not have failed to notice (I love those double negatives (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) ) that there's an interesting sideshow going on at the moment. With the Old Bard being blocked for 3 days (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) - - come on, a week minimum, surely -- the action has moved to the old Bard's nemesis, one EmpireForever, who was, incidentally, blocked as well (for no good reason) for just one day. Anyway, this morning a new kid on the block appears, going by the delicious name of LemonMonday. But, before said lemon was able to make good more than about a dozen of the old bard's efforts at vandalism he was blocked. This blocking was effected by a jumped-up twirp known as Angus Mclellan from Belgium (I ask you!). Anyway, to cut a long story short, twirp thought lemon and empire were the same person, so he blocked lemon and bollocked empire (what a twat!). Then the Mistress Alison came along and checkusered them both not guilty - BUT SHE DIDN'T UNBLOCK LEMON (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) So lemon asks to be unblocked, but twirp's having none of it and as you can see is just ignoring the issue. He won't even apologise to empire.

So I gets to wondering - is a basic qualification to aspire to the dizzy heights of adminship that you must feature prominently in the Observer Book of Arrogant, Stupid Bastards? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) It certainly seems like it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Anyway, I'm off over Pedia again to make good a few more of Bardy's wrongdoings. See you later (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

[gomi]

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

You must be sh*ting me. You block people all the time after running CU, why in the world can't you unblock them after running a CU? Oh, wait -- another Cabal Protection Program™. Now I understand.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Hey up! User:Ww2censor is right now vandalising LemonMonday's edits (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) He better watch out - he'll be banned before you can say BardSock (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

What a disreputable place the old Wiki is. But - like I've said - there's bloody good sport to be had. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Alison]

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

You must be sh*ting me. You block people all the time after running CU, why in the world can't you unblock them after running a CU? Oh, wait -- another Cabal Protection Program™. Now I understand.

Well, yeah, but blocking is not interfering with someone else's admin action. Spot the diff?

[Gold heart]

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

You must be sh*ting me. You block people all the time after running CU, why in the world can't you unblock them after running a CU? Oh, wait -- another Cabal Protection Program™. Now I understand.

Well, yeah, but blocking is not interfering with someone else's admin action. Spot the diff?

And who can overturn a bad block, only the God-King? Good grief!!

[TheKartingWikipedian]

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

But he isn't doing. He's ignoring it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) Could you please report Fungus to Jimbo? Maybe Jimbo will desysop him; he certainly deserves it. Heaven knows what LemonHead must think about it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

[Alison]

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

You must be sh*ting me. You block people all the time after running CU, why in the world can't you unblock them after running a CU? Oh, wait -- another Cabal Protection Program™. Now I understand.

Well, yeah, but blocking is not interfering with someone else's admin action. Spot the diff?

And who can overturn a bad block, only the God-King? Good grief!!

Well, no. Pretty much anyone can. It's basic courtesy to ask first, though, and if you unblock out of process, expect problems!

I cannot unblock the lemon dude as I ran the checkuser so am technically 'involved' and I don't want to undo Angus' admin action. He'll deal with it himself.

But he isn't doing. He's ignoring it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) Could you please report Fungus to Jimbo? Maybe Jimbo will desysop him; he certainly deserves it. Heaven knows what LemonHead must think about it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

I'll bring it to ANI in a minute ....

[TheKartingWikipedian]

I'll bring it to ANI in a minute ....

Bloody hell, that was quick. I take it all back. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) What back (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) Anything I may have said.

PS: Do they say "bloody hell" in America (sorry the USA). If not, what a good expletive that will be understood on that side of the lake? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Kelly Martin]

PS: Do they say "bloody hell" in America (sorry the USA). If not, what a good expletive that will be understood on that side of the lake? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

I use "bloody hell" often enough, but I've watched too much BBC America for my own good. I think most of us Yanks have seen enough of your TV and such to at least understand that it's an expletive, even if we don't necessarily appreciate the full nuances of the term.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

PS: Do they say "bloody hell" in America (sorry the USA). If not, what a good expletive that will be understood on that side of the lake? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

I use "bloody hell" often enough, but I've watched too much BBC America for my own good. I think most of us Yanks have seen enough of your TV and such to at least understand that it's an expletive, even if we don't necessarily appreciate the full nuances of the term.

Thank you for that. Maybe I'll start an article at Wikipedia on "Bloody Hell", and also "Bugger Me", for good measure. Oh dear, I forgot, I'm banned. Never mind. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[Gold heart]

PS: Do they say "bloody hell" in America (sorry the USA). If not, what a good expletive that will be understood on that side of the lake? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

I use "bloody hell" often enough, but I've watched too much BBC America for my own good. I think most of us Yanks have seen enough of your TV and such to at least understand that it's an expletive, even if we don't necessarily appreciate the full nuances of the term.

Fill me in, what nuances? It's a meaningless term, a bit like "oh". Bloody Bloddy Hell!!

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Well, well, well, wonders will never cease (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Old LemonHead's got himself unblocked; wonder if he knows, cos he's got important work to do, cleaning up after the BardVandal. But just look at this load of old bollocks (AmE anyone) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) According to this lot, old lemonhead was puting British Isles into articles where it didn't exist. Of course it didn't - cos the BardVandal had removed it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) Makes yer laugh eh! This guy's accused of being an SPA and "do we want this editor here in the first place?" Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Old Bard also an SPA (mostly), and isn't he responsible for all this mayhem in the first place? Good old admins (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) Tossers (AmE?) to a man - Alison excepted. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)


Ha, ha, ha, now someone thinks the Lemon is a newbie, oh yeah, like Empire (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by TheKartingWikipedian:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Ohh yes, Ohh yes, I like it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) Empire's requesting an unblock JUST SO THAT HE CAN CONTRIBUTE HERE!

Please, please unblock him now (Alison - are you there (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) ). I can't wait to see what the Empire's urgent response is going to be. He's got some information (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)


Ottava_Rima - he says, quote "I work with literature of all types, and I can read Latin, Italian, French, and Spanish. " Well it's a pity you can't read English - there's already been a checkuser of lemon and empire (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Even so, Chillum still thinks there's "something in it". Where do they get these people from (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by TheKartingWikipedian:

[Gold heart]

Ohh yes, Ohh yes, I like it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) Empire's requesting an unblock JUST SO THAT HE CAN CONTRIBUTE HERE!

Please, please unblock him now (Alison - are you there (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) ). I can't wait to see what the Empire's urgent response is going to be. He's got some information (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

LemonMonday, and EmpireForever are SPAs and should be subject to 1 revert rule. Otherwise they'll run riot about the place, and give all those intellectually challenged admins a headache. If the encyclopedia was being compiled properly in the first instance, this wouldn't be happening. They reap what they sow. How bloody awful!!

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[ComeGetMe]

What about tharky suggesting setting up a wikiproject vs Ddstretch wanting to set up a task force. Personally I think a task force might be more productive, but a wikiproject would be more entertaining. I can imagine the first point of order:

o While the issue is being debated and rules are being decided, all editing which results in the removal of "British Isles" will be prohibited.

And then let the debate rage on and on and on (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Hey, Sarah666, dya think this is the tactic? Well Do Ya? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by ComeGetMe:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Well, well. Lemonhead unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , Empire unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , The BardKing unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) But get this - Empire had to give an undertaking not to edit ANYTHING apart from the ANI thread, but the dopey admin read that as not to edit war, so to be fair to all concerned, HighBard was unblocked after agreeing "not to edit war" as well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Anyway, let's see how this develops. My bet is a gorilla (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) war will ensue, whereby all sorts of SPAs, socks and other assorted patriots will slowly but surely try to dismantle the BardVandal's efforts. He watches everything, so he'll spot what's going on, and he won't be able to contain himself (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) More conflict, aggression and edit warring. Bans, blocks and battles to follow. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

How do you prevent this - Easy (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Ban the BardVandal from removing British Isles and let him get on with The Troubles or whatever else takes his fancy, apart from BI. Let's face it, there's nobody actively putting British Isles in (apart from replacing BardKing's removals). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

[Gold heart]

Well, well. Lemonhead unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , Empire unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , The BardKing unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) But get this - Empire had to give an undertaking not to edit ANYTHING apart from the ANI thread, but the dopey admin read that as not to edit war, so to be fair to all concerned, HighBard was unblocked after agreeing "not to edit war" as well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Anyway, let's see how this develops. My bet is a gorilla (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) war will ensue, whereby all sorts of SPAs, socks and other assorted patriots will slowly but surely try to dismantle the BardVandal's efforts. He watches everything, so he'll spot what's going on, and he won't be able to contain himself (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) More conflict, aggression and edit warring. Bans, blocks and battles to follow. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

How do you prevent this - Easy (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Ban the BardVandal from removing British Isles and let him get on with The Troubles or whatever else takes his fancy, apart from BI. Let's face it, there's nobody actively putting British Isles in (apart from replacing BardKing's removals). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Hey KartingWikipedian, do you have to use so many faces. I'm getting spots! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Hey KartingWikipedian, do you have to use so many faces. I'm getting spots! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Sorry (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kelly Martin]

This thread has clearly exceeded its emoticon quota.

[ComeGetMe]

Well, well. Lemonhead unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , Empire unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) , The BardKing unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) But get this - Empire had to give an undertaking not to edit ANYTHING apart from the ANI thread, but the dopey admin read that as not to edit war, so to be fair to all concerned, HighBard was unblocked after agreeing "not to edit war" as well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Anyway, let's see how this develops. My bet is a gorilla (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) war will ensue, whereby all sorts of SPAs, socks and other assorted patriots will slowly but surely try to dismantle the BardVandal's efforts. He watches everything, so he'll spot what's going on, and he won't be able to contain himself (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) More conflict, aggression and edit warring. Bans, blocks and battles to follow. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

How do you prevent this - Easy (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Ban the BardVandal from removing British Isles and let him get on with The Troubles or whatever else takes his fancy, apart from BI. Let's face it, there's nobody actively putting British Isles in (apart from replacing BardKing's removals). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

Your mask is slipping.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Your mask is slipping.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

Really? And who do you see beneath? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

WHAT! TharkunColl has been blocked by Ddstretch FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Apparently Stretch told Thark not to respond to a comment, Thark did, and hey presto! He's blocked for two weeks.

AMAZING (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

Phew! Panic over - Thark's unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

Phew! Panic over - Thark's unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I can't believe the admin who came onto -Thark's- talk page saying "stop making laughably stupid comments" or something about comments to which no-one else seemed to object, blocked him. And I voted for DDStretch at RfA. I hope it's just an 'off' day and normal service will be resumed.

Whatever you think of Thark, this was random.

[Ottava]

Not really fair - they didn't list who they checked against each other, and the checkuser was removed, so it wasn't there when I looked at the forum.

[Gold heart]

Phew! Panic over - Thark's unblocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I can't believe the admin who came onto -Thark's- talk page saying "stop making laughably stupid comments" or something about comments to which no-one else seemed to object, blocked him. And I voted for DDStretch at RfA. I hope it's just an 'off' day and normal service will be resumed.

Whatever you think of Thark, this was random.

Thark has been testing the limits for a long while, although I don't believe any of the other editors involved want to see him blocked. But things might flare up again at some stage, and Thark might find himself blocked for some days.

[TheKartingWikipedian]

He's off again! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)

[TheKartingWikipedian]

For the uninitiated amongst you this post relates to an ongoing battle between HighKing, formerly known as Bardcom, and several other editors. The Bard wants to rid Wikipedia of the term British Isles, but other editors think differently. It's been quiet recently with the Bard seeming to have given up on his relentless campaign, but now he's back, deleting like it's going out of fashion (he wishes British Isles was going out of fashion). His oldest adversary is still there reverting the Bard's posts - good old Tharky!. His other nemesis of recent times, CarterBar, has disappeared off the scene.

Go and have a look at what's going on. It's reverting good fun! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[Gold heart]

For the uninitiated amongst you this post relates to an ongoing battle between HighKing, formerly known as Bardcom, and several other editors. The Bard wants to rid Wikipedia of the term British Isles, but other editors think differently. It's been quiet recently with the Bard seeming to have given up on his relentless campaign, but now he's back, deleting like it's going out of fashion (he wishes British Isles was going out of fashion). His oldest adversary is still there reverting the Bard's posts - good old Tharky!. His other nemesis of recent times, CarterBar, has disappeared off the scene.

Go and have a look at what's going on. It's reverting good fun! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

What a load of "mungo pungo". The term "British Isles" does not exist in my studies, it's being pushed by a bunch of blibbering barnbots, aka the "British Isles Brigade". These guys are usually right-wing British Nationalists, who hate black people, Asians, and Islam, and some could also be of the Satanist persuasion. It they were in coven at the bottom of a lavatory, then I would surely flush it, or rocket them to a convenient "black hole" in deeper space. User Tharkumcoll is the leader of this unruly pack who "protect" the British Isles article at all costs, and with the support of British admins Waggers and Canterbury Tale. The saga will go on and on, I'm afraid! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

What a load of "mungo pungo". The term "British Isles" does not exist in my studies, it's being pushed by a bunch of blibbering barnbots, aka the "British Isles Brigade". These guys are usually right-wing British Nationalists, who hate black people, Asians, and Islam, and some could also be of the Satanist persuasion. It they were in coven at the bottom of a lavatory, then I would surely flush it, or rocket them to a convenient "black hole" in deeper space. User Tharkumcoll is the leader of this unruly pack who "protect" the British Isles article at all costs, and with the support of British admins Waggers and Canterbury Tale. The saga will go on and on, I'm afraid! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

Roflmao! No Satanism isn't usually linked to National Socialism, although the rare few are like that they're usually condemned by the majority of Theistic Satanists. Your comment would be a 'personal attack' (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) if I didn't have to compliment you on your humour. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

The same with joining the BNP- thark and I, I imagine, would never bother or believe in that, we're too busy getting p*ssed or having a laugh. I try to define my politics as liberal/left wing socialist crossed with normal or something. Most of my politics agrees with having a 'nanny state', and I have to make a bit of an effort to escape the political correctness on which I was brought up- I don't know if Thark has to do that or if it comes naturally.

As to "British Isles"- maybe your 'studies' don't find it, but it frequently is used in the media in the real world in the UK, in which most people in the UK live.

It's sort of a shame this argument has come up again- but then it depends what the editors involved feel like doing at the time.

I'm only tangentially involved in this area on wikipedia by virtue of a friendship. I don't think editors usually involved in those articles would identify as Satanists- I don't know what Thark is nowadays, perhaps a hedonist who has to mock overly serious people or those with a politically correct or getting-offended-at-the-real-world agenda.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[ComeGetMe]

Its hotting up again. HK filed a wikiquette alert after having trouble with lots of reverts by Tharky and other editors and even a sock.

By my count, theres 4 editors against his editing, and two admins are on his case. They want him to post his proposed edits in advance (never heard that before) and you have to laugh really cos it was Tharkys suggestion originally (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

Its hotting up again. HK filed a wikiquette alert after having trouble with lots of reverts by Tharky and other editors and even a sock.

By my count, theres 4 editors against his editing, and two admins are on his case. They want him to post his proposed edits in advance (never heard that before) and you have to laugh really cos it was Tharkys suggestion originally (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Plenty of people are saying in the wikiquette thread that HighKing is out of line with his BI fetish though. I'm surprised that possible limits to reverts, or possible blocks, are being discussed on that board, which is supposed to be one of the first steps in dispute resolution.

An Arbcom or RfC or something is what's perhaps the answer, although it's a bit of a nit-picky topic for an arbcom. The editors involved are making a 'British Isles task force' which supposedly will settle the issue.


Aaah, SirFoz opened an Arbcom enforcement request. He says it may fall under the Troubles arbcom, which it is related to I suppose. Sir Foz for Arbcom! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[ComeGetMe]

Its hotting up again. HK filed a wikiquette alert after having trouble with lots of reverts by Tharky and other editors and even a sock.

By my count, theres 4 editors against his editing, and two admins are on his case. They want him to post his proposed edits in advance (never heard that before) and you have to laugh really cos it was Tharkys suggestion originally (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Plenty of people are saying in the wikiquette thread that HighKing is out of line with his BI fetish though. I'm surprised that possible limits to reverts, or possible blocks, are being discussed on that board, which is supposed to be one of the first steps in dispute resolution.

An Arbcom or RfC or something is what's perhaps the answer, although it's a bit of a nit-picky topic for an arbcom. The editors involved are making a 'British Isles task force' which supposedly will settle the issue.


Aaah, SirFoz opened an Arbcom enforcement request. He says it may fall under the Troubles arbcom, which it is related to I suppose. Sir Foz for Arbcom! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Looks to me like a whole bunch of editors just dont want to see the term British Isles interfered with in any way. Circling the wagons and all that.

And I see a mobile phone ip gets blocked for one single edit (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Either very efficient or a bloody disgrace (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Nothing to do with the fact that the anon IP reverted to HK version. Of course not. Never happens on WP ... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Gold heart]

Looks to me like a whole bunch of editors just dont want to see the term British Isles interfered with in any way. Circling the wagons and all that.

And I see a mobile phone ip gets blocked for one single edit (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Either very efficient or a bloody disgrace (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Nothing to do with the fact that the anon IP reverted to HK version. Of course not. Never happens on WP ... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

I really do think it's a case of British nationalism seeking to put their stamp on many of the Irish related articles, to the distain of Irish nationalism, and a 'Wicked Wiki War' has ensued. SirFozzie made a grand effort to have this on-going feud settled, but he did wrongly state that User:HighKing "opposes the term completely and utterly", and so logically trying to eliminate the archaic term "British Isles" from Wikipedia. This is a political dispute, and it will go on and on, and the only way to stop the edit-warring is to set up a "Wikipedia Commission" to study the problem, and deliberate, - or ban any editing that involves the use, or non-use, of the term British Isles. The term is not now internationally recognised much, except in Britain and New Zealand. The edit-warring will continue, it ain't over by a longshot!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Alison]

I really do think it's a case of British nationalism seeking to put their stamp on many of the Irish related articles, to the distain of Irish nationalism, and a 'Wicked Wiki War' has ensued. SirFozzie made a grand effort to have this on-going feud settled, but he did wrongly state that User:HighKing "opposes the term completely and utterly", and so logically trying to eliminate the archaic term "British Isles" from Wikipedia. This is a political dispute, and it will go on and on, and the only way to stop the edit-warring is to set up a "Wikipedia Commission" to study the problem, and deliberate, - or ban any editing that involves the use, or non-use, of the term British Isles. The term is not now internationally recognised much, except in Britain and New Zealand. The edit-warring will continue, it ain't over by a longshot!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

So which one of the guys stirring trouble over there is you this time? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[Gold heart]

I really do think it's a case of British nationalism seeking to put their stamp on many of the Irish related articles, to the distain of Irish nationalism, and a 'Wicked Wiki War' has ensued. SirFozzie made a grand effort to have this on-going feud settled, but he did wrongly state that User:HighKing "opposes the term completely and utterly", and so logically trying to eliminate the archaic term "British Isles" from Wikipedia. This is a political dispute, and it will go on and on, and the only way to stop the edit-warring is to set up a "Wikipedia Commission" to study the problem, and deliberate, - or ban any editing that involves the use, or non-use, of the term British Isles. The term is not now internationally recognised much, except in Britain and New Zealand. The edit-warring will continue, it ain't over by a longshot!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

So which one of the guys stirring trouble over there is you this time? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

So hi checkuser, you'll have to sharpen your checkuser skills. I thought you knew everything that's happening! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) Honestly, no. Haven't edited WP in three months, thanks to his nibs. I see Matt Lewis thinks I'm everywhere, like the Scarlet Pimpernelll! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Alison]

I really do think it's a case of British nationalism seeking to put their stamp on many of the Irish related articles, to the distain of Irish nationalism, and a 'Wicked Wiki War' has ensued. SirFozzie made a grand effort to have this on-going feud settled, but he did wrongly state that User:HighKing "opposes the term completely and utterly", and so logically trying to eliminate the archaic term "British Isles" from Wikipedia. This is a political dispute, and it will go on and on, and the only way to stop the edit-warring is to set up a "Wikipedia Commission" to study the problem, and deliberate, - or ban any editing that involves the use, or non-use, of the term British Isles. The term is not now internationally recognised much, except in Britain and New Zealand. The edit-warring will continue, it ain't over by a longshot!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

So which one of the guys stirring trouble over there is you this time? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

So hi checkuser, you'll have to sharpen your checkuser skills. I thought you knew everything that's happening! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) Honestly, no. Haven't edited WP in three months, thanks to his nibs. I see Matt Lewis thinks I'm everywhere, like the Scarlet Pimpernelll! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

I haven't checkusered your stuff in months, dude. In fact, I've been idle on WP for quite a while as real-life is far more interesting right now (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

[SirFozzie]

although that IP address is apparently interesting, a mobile IP address in Dublin apparently? *chuckles* Not saying it is you Goldie.. in fact.. I guess that puts paid to "rangeblocking all of Dublin".

Although then again, now that I think about it, Black Kite rangeblocked that mobile IP provider. Could be!

[Gold heart]

I haven't checkusered your stuff in months, dude. In fact, I've been idle on WP for quite a while as real-life is far more interesting right now (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

Well for you! You'll be back with action no doubt, when the batteries are charged, eh? Monitors burn the brain, that's how the brain-washing was done years and years ago, - bright constant lights. Only that Wikipedia does it much more slowly. Same result though! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

[Alison]

I haven't checkusered your stuff in months, dude. In fact, I've been idle on WP for quite a while as real-life is far more interesting right now (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)

Well for you! You'll be back with action no doubt, when the batteries are charged, eh? Monitors burn the brain, that's how the brain-washing was done years and years ago, - bright constant lights. Only that Wikipedia does it much more slowly. Same result though! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

I hate to break the news, but most of us are using flat-panels these days (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[wikiwhistle]

Looks like they've all got away with it again, as they promised to behave. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Gold heart]

I hate to break the news, but most of us are using flat-panels these days (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

Oh, is that what they call them. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

Didn't realise that SirFozzie was being haunted by the breadth of his own imagination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=244828683

Some folk at WP need a break, and quickly too. Imagine that one day some of these people could be doing ArbCom. That place is behaving nuts! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

I haven't been near that God-forsaken place for three months, and all I ever did on BI was edit-war over two words on the "Insular G" article, and my edits on that instance were quite correct. Maybe they should ban the whole of Hibernia so they can have their cozy little POV pushing website to themselves. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)

Looks like they've all got away with it again, as they promised to behave. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

The admins could do likewise, they cause more problems than there are, with their ANI, Arb and what not. Surely they are the cause of much disruption and fuss on WP. Maybe some should try some editing, and see what it's like. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[Meringue]

Well for you! You'll be back with action no doubt, when the batteries are charged, eh? Monitors burn the brain, that's how the brain-washing was done years and years ago, - bright constant lights. Only that Wikipedia does it much more slowly. Same result though! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

I hate to break the news, but most of us are using flat-panels these days (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

They're still monitors. Or do you mean that you're into self-assembled wardrobes? If you've bought some of those, no wonder you're too busy for WP. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Gold heart]

Didn't realise that SirFozzie was being haunted by the breadth of his own imagination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=244828683

Some folk at WP need a break, and quickly too. Imagine that one day some of these people could be doing ArbCom. That place is behaving nuts! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

And this was Black Kite's response to SirFozzie's request, a silly range block!

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=244846578

Yes, Black Kite made a six month range block in the Dublin area after the request by SirFozzie, and all over some petty edits from a silly, but tame, static IP address.

SirFozzie, your behaviour seems so antipathetic! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[SirFozzie]

Bwuh? Your tenuous grasp on reality is slipping, Goldie.I suggested that he ask a checkuser to check that range, see if there was any other users on that range before doing anything.. he had a link that showed the only edits on that range was various IP's disruption in a pro-HighKing way. I didn't suggest it, didn't recommend it, didn't do anything.

Although the timing is interesting.. wonder if you DID get your hand caught in the cookie jar again.. I wasn't the only one who thought it could be you (Sticky Parkin, etcetera)

[Gold heart]

Bwuh? Your tenuous grasp on reality is slipping, Goldie.I suggested that he ask a checkuser to check that range, see if there was any other users on that range before doing anything.. he had a link that showed the only edits on that range was various IP's disruption in a pro-HighKing way. I didn't suggest it, didn't recommend it, didn't do anything.

Although the timing is interesting.. wonder if you DID get your hand caught in the cookie jar again.. I wasn't the only one who thought it could be you (Sticky Parkin, etcetera)

I just love the asinine way that your back-up editor, Sticky Parkin, is an ardent supporter of TharkumColl, and one of the antagonists of High King. I thought that you was supposed to be a neutral admin, how naive I can be sometimes. Why did you go onto Black Kite's page, but only to cause trouble. You should know by now that he is an involved editor in the "British Isles Dispute", and not impartial.

"Hand in the cookie jar", sucks. Get Alison to check-out your ascertains. Bet you won't, cause it's a sham! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif)

[SirFozzie]

From the amount of sqwaking you're doing, Goldie, I'd say there's at least a chance of it being true. But let me guess.. HighKing is "fighting the good fight" and TharkunColl is "Vandalizing Wikipedia".

Quite frankly, if they hadn't agreed to voluntarily quit it with the "insert British Isles" "Remove British Isles" crap, they would have been forced to. Both of them should know better by now.

And you know what? For the amount of editwarring that gets done on these articles, EVERY administrator will become involved eventually, trying to keep folks from turning WP into a battleground.

I'll block either side if they get out of line. I blocked Sarah. I blocked Thunderer. I blocked Domer. I blocked Astrotrain. I don't care which side you guys are, I just want the wars on WP to stop.

[Gold heart]

From the amount of sqwaking you're doing, Goldie, I'd say there's at least a chance of it being true. But let me guess.. HighKing is "fighting the good fight" and TharkunColl is "Vandalizing Wikipedia".

Quite frankly, if they hadn't agreed to voluntarily quit it with the "insert British Isles" "Remove British Isles" crap, they would have been forced to. Both of them should know better by now.

And you know what? For the amount of editwarring that gets done on these articles, EVERY administrator will become involved eventually, trying to keep folks from turning WP into a battleground.

I'll block either side if they get out of line. I blocked Sarah. I blocked Thunderer. I blocked Domer. I blocked Astrotrain. I don't care which side you guys are, I just want the wars on WP to stop.

You sqwak enough around ANI for all the woes of WP to be ameliorated several times over. The bottom line is that you got a whole ISP range blocked on spurious grounds, and you erroneously or falsely used my name in the nefarious mechanisms.

There may be some new editors wanting to edit Wikipedia. If you want to do the "right thing", you will immediately lift the range-block, and show us what you are made of. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)


This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[wikiwhistle]

And you know what? For the amount of editwarring that gets done on these articles, EVERY administrator will become involved eventually, trying to keep folks from turning WP into a battleground.

I'll block either side if they get out of line. I blocked Sarah. I blocked Thunderer. I blocked Domer. I blocked Astrotrain. I don't care which side you guys are, I just want the wars on WP to stop.

AE should have gone with your suggestion, it was good. I fear it's only a matter of time...mind you, Thark did start getting on with previous editors he fell out with on other articles and collaborating a bit, so it could work to give them another chance, we'll see.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[SirFozzie]

Well, if it starts up again, WW, I'll go ZOMG ROUGEADMIN and place them under the terms myself in an instant. They don't like it? Take it to ArbCom.

(Oh, and speaking of ArbCom, noone has my sandbox in their watchlist do they? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif))

[Sarah777]

Aha! This site just emailed me - I see yer still at it (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Me, I'm on strike. It's a Wiki-strike but I can't figure out how to place pickets. I was thinking maybe a sign on the pages of the Admin community (yes all of them - what are bots for after all?) , but I realise they can over-react.


Seesh! What am I doing down here? Does the "reply" thingy not work? There is never an Admin around when you need one.

[ComeGetMe]

From the amount of sqwaking you're doing, Goldie, I'd say there's at least a chance of it being true. But let me guess.. HighKing is "fighting the good fight" and TharkunColl is "Vandalizing Wikipedia".

Quite frankly, if they hadn't agreed to voluntarily quit it with the "insert British Isles" "Remove British Isles" crap, they would have been forced to. Both of them should know better by now.

But it is entertainment or sorts (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

The edit historys of both editors shows that Tharky and his merry meatpuppets won this battle. They got clean away with some very poor behaviour. Im surprised HK didnt kick up more considering his past.

Chronologically going through this, youd be hard pressed to point to anything he did wrong to be called up to arbcom. BRD is all well and find so long as the D part happens, but it never did. So HK would make an edit. The merry meatpuppets would revert. HK would ask on the Talk page to discuss. After a while, hours/days, of nothing HK would revert again, invariably getting reverted in minutes. Hed ask on Talk. Nothing. Repeat cycle. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)

When HK reports LemonMonday and Blue Bugle as sockpuppets, BB gets blocked and LM gets warned by Alison to not follow HK around reverting his edits. A few days later, LM is back reverting. Does anything happen? Alison? SirFozzie? Turning a blind eye?

HK reports Tharky at WQA. Personally I might have chosen a different and more direct route but whatever. Blah, blah, blah resulting in HK being asked to stop editing instead. While HK tries to get Tharkys behavior looked at, SirFozzie lumps them into The Troubles arbcom and threatens HK with an editing ban. Then HK is accused of being a GH sockie.

On one side we have an editor that appears to be trying to resolve an issue, is following policy, but comits a henious crime because he is removing British Isles from articles. Consensus is that he may be overzealous on occasion but mostly gets it right. Appears willing to explain his edits. His edits are in line with the task force. Not abusive. A bit anal and wikilawyering over references sometimes...

On the other we have Tharky (and the MP gang) ignore policy, revert without any attempt to explain their actions, and leave rude remarks in edit summaries, all round generally abusive.

Wiki result? Lets stop HK antagonizing the British editors. No more removing the term. Yeah, sure, they cause the disruption, but its easier to get HK to change his ways than Tharky (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Scoring: Tharky wins because he got what he wanted. He stopped HK, introduced the term into a couple of new articles, and recruited some puppets to revert any of HKs edits. But his biggest score is for the WQA and ArbCom results. Poor behaviour and good behaviour? Lets reward the poor behaviour. Masterful performance by Tharky (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Other notable performances: SirFozzie gets a star for extending The Troubles arbcom to cover any disruption, and for doing a great admin job of stopping disruption. But performed poorly in dealing with "Tharky and the MeatPuppets", and obviously failed to appear impartial.

[wikiwhistle]

Chronologically going through this, youd be hard pressed to point to anything he did wrong to be called up to arbcom. BRD is all well and find so long as the D part happens, but it never did. So HK would make an edit. The merry meatpuppets would revert. HK would ask on the Talk page to discuss. After a while, hours/days, of nothing HK would revert again, invariably getting reverted in minutes. Hed ask on Talk. Nothing. Repeat cycle. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)
{...}
On one side we have an editor that appears to be trying to resolve an issue, is following policy, but comits a henious crime because he is removing British Isles from articles. Consensus is that he may be overzealous on occasion but mostly gets it right. Appears willing to explain his edits. His edits are in line with the task force. Not abusive. A bit anal and wikilawyering over references sometimes...

On the other we have Tharky (and the MP gang) ignore policy, revert without any attempt to explain their actions, and leave rude remarks in edit summaries, all round generally abusive.

The thing is that HK/Bardcom came to wiki or became interested in a 'crusade' to remove the term British Isles, as the creator of this thread said. Then he is obnoxious, templating people just for criticising him. Such as William M. Connolley who I think blocked Bardcom for his having a go at him, templating and "vandalising" as WMC saw it, by removing stuff from articles. At one point removing the term was all his recent contribs consisted of.

Tharky is just more blunt, rather than usually doing the template thing he will wind people up a bit and say what he thinks. I think Bardcom/HK irritates TC, who thinks he's wrong, and that TC also enjoys a good row.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:

[Gold heart]

The thing is that HK/Bardcom came to wiki or became interested in a 'crusade' to remove the term British Isles, as the creator of this thread said. Then he is obnoxious, templating people just for criticising him. Such as William M. Connolley who I think blocked Bardcom for his having a go at him, templating and "vandalising" as WMC saw it, by removing stuff from articles. At one point removing the term was all his recent contribs consisted of.

Tharky is just more blunt, rather than usually doing the template thing he will wind people up a bit and say what he thinks. I think Bardcom/HK irritates TC, who thinks he's wrong, and that TC also enjoys a good row.

In my estimation, that's not altogether true in what you write about HighKing/Bardcom. He does not have a crusade any more than the average Wikipedian. The term, British Isles, is used wrongly in many articles, and I am 100% behind HK if any article needs to be corrected, and I hope you and SirFozzie would be too. Some great philosopher once wrote, "let the truth be told, even though the heavens fall", and apparently some peoples heavens are falling at Wikipedia. I believe that HighKing has just about always brought to talk-page in the first instance, and Tharkumcoll just reverts without engagement. Also, I believe that THARK might be using sock IPs from central England on some of the articles. But don't worry wikiwhisltle, you won't see Foz, Black Kite, or the "others" range-blocking the centre of England for six months. No Siree!!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mellow.gif)



This post has been edited by Gold heart:

[ComeGetMe]

The thing is that HK/Bardcom came to wiki or became interested in a 'crusade' to remove the term British Isles, as the creator of this thread said. Then he is obnoxious, templating people just for criticising him. Such as William M. Connolley who I think blocked Bardcom for his having a go at him, templating and "vandalising" as WMC saw it, by removing stuff from articles. At one point removing the term was all his recent contribs consisted of.

Tharky is just more blunt, rather than usually doing the template thing he will wind people up a bit and say what he thinks. I think Bardcom/HK irritates TC, who thinks he's wrong, and that TC also enjoys a good row.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) I think we already decided here that templating WMC was a stroke of masterful naivety (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

And looks like that was an article where HK got it right.