FORUM WARNING [2] Division by zero (Line: 2933 of /srcsgcaop/boardclass.php) FORUM WARNING [2] Division by zero (Line: 2943 of /srcsgcaop/boardclass.php) Shankbone vs. Kohs, part deux -
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 15th April 2009, 8:43pm)
Our favorite evil queen is back in a new tsk-tsk against the beloved Mr. Kohs:
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Wed 15th April 2009, 8:56pm)
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 15th April 2009, 10:53pm)
I get it. It looks like a newspaper because he's a journalist.
No, it looks like a newspaper because he's a parakeet.
Makes me sad. I had to get rid of budgey. What with the demise of newspapers and all it just cost too much to line the cage with laptops.
Indeed a poor trade.
Fun fact: the inside of a thick never-opened conventionally printed newspaper makes a pretty good surface upon which to rely for cleanliness in emergencies. Such as where to put an emergently born baby, or what to use impromptu on a severe injury. The reason being that the high heat and pressures of the modern high speed press kill bacteria quite well, and the rest of the wrapping process then protects the surfaces from further outside contamination.*
And that's not all. Besides being relatively free of bacteria and viruses, the inside of a modern newspaper is also nearly sterile of imagination, wit, wisdom, perspective, and scholarship, as well. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)
Not that most of what you get over the net on your laptop is any better, and is usually worse. All of this has been eroding per Gresham's Law of the Jungle, these last 20 years. The losers being ye books in ye libraries. Which anon becometh harder and harder to find as the process doth proceed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)
Let's hope something is found to turn this mess around before the Tragedy of the Commons finally kills it off completely. Not withstanding a lot of fine stuff donated altuistically to the world, the "free information" movement has too often given us only that which we paid for. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Such is life.
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David Shankbone:
QUOTE(Shankbone)
He mine as well have just gone the full grandpa distance and thrown in, “That’s what you kids are calling it these days, right? LULZ?â€
QUOTE(Shankbone)
Then, without a clue in the world, Greg goes back to the Wikipedia Review article and tries to undue the changes made by the ED editors to restore it to an earlier version he preferred! Again, grandpa Magoo takes flight in Greg’s edit summary:
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Hahaaha. I just don't see how Shankbone can try to push that stupid blog off as anything but a joke. It's so funny in how completely ridiculous it is. The topics, his writing style, his complete lack of integrity. It's awesome. It's like the Fox News of internet shit no one cares about.
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Hopefully everyone reading this is already aware that the ED "User:Gregory Kohs" is not, in any way whatsoever, the real Gregory Kohs. More likely, it's Shankers himself.
the Internet Review Corporation is watching you...
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QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 16th April 2009, 6:20am)
David Shankbone:
QUOTE('Shankbone')
He mine as well have just gone the full grandpa distance and thrown in, “That’s what you kids are calling it these days, right? LULZ?â€
QUOTE('Shankbone')
Then, without a clue in the world, Greg goes back to the Wikipedia Review article and tries to undue the changes made by the ED editors to restore it to an earlier version he preferred! Again, grandpa Magoo takes flight in Greg’s edit summary:
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I looked but were unable to find any of those particular images that Mr Shankbone is so associated with (gynaecology detailed pictures of male genitalia) on Wikipedia - and here - anywhere on his blog. Why is this? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
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QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 3:27am)
Hahaaha. I just don't see how Shankbone can try to push that stupid blog off as anything but a joke. It's so funny in how completely ridiculous it is. The topics, his writing style, his complete lack of integrity. It's awesome. It's like the Fox News of internet shit no one cares about.
But Shanky can get a job a Fox News...doesn't he already know someone who works there (as per an older blog plop)? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
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QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:01pm)
I looked but were unable to find any of those particular images that Mr Shankbone is so associated with (gynaecology detailed pictures of male genitalia) on Wikipedia - and here - anywhere on his blog. Why is this? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
He got jimbo to delete them, presumably connected to some posts on his blog about wanting to advance his career in the real world. Perhaps he doesn't want to seem like a type people wouldn't want to employ.
Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 16th April 2009, 5:25pm)
He got jimbo to delete them, presumably connected to some posts on his blog about wanting to advance his career in the real world. Perhaps he doesn't want to seem like a type people wouldn't want to employ.
Which would then beg the question as to why he would do such a nasty pointless piece on Greg which shouts out personal grudge and failure to grasp the lack of importance of Wikipedia politics in the real world.
I remember the real world, it was much more fun than this one.
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QUOTE('Shankbone')
Everything is...uh...getting to know people on a social level and...from there...PLANS GET DISCUSSED...
At the risk of redundantly repeating this repetitive point for the umpteenth time, this is just more of the same classic hypernarcissistic hoo-ha that we've been getting from Shankers all along.
In other words, getting published has little or nothing to do with talent, creativity, skill, effort, ideas, persistence, or even luck. Instead, getting published is something that happens when you go to a nightclub or a party, and meet someone who knows someone who knows an agent (ad infinitum), and who is naturally super-impressed by some aspect (if not all aspects) of your stellar-perfect personality.
In effect, this is the "extreme version" of the pipe dream Wikipedia sells to all its servants - i.e., the idea that you can "be somebody" by simply sitting in front of a computer, paraphrasing some content found elsewhere, and chatting with people. (Then again, maybe I shouldn't be so critical of them for that, since most other websites don't even require the paraphrased content.)
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 16th April 2009, 7:01am)
QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 3:27am)
Hahaaha. I just don't see how Shankbone can try to push that stupid blog off as anything but a joke. It's so funny in how completely ridiculous it is. The topics, his writing style, his complete lack of integrity. It's awesome. It's like the Fox News of internet shit no one cares about.
But Shanky can get a job a Fox News...doesn't he already know someone who works there (as per an older blog plop)? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
Ha! Ya, that might hinder his chances of getting hired there. I'd forgotten about that, actually. He criticized Fox in that one, right? Haha, oh... how hypocritical.
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:25pm)
QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:01pm)
I looked but were unable to find any of those particular images that Mr Shankbone is so associated with (gynaecology detailed pictures of male genitalia) on Wikipedia - and here - anywhere on his blog. Why is this? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
He got jimbo to delete them, presumably connected to some posts on his blog about wanting to advance his career in the real world. Perhaps he doesn't want to seem like a type people wouldn't want to employ.
Some of them have been reuploaded by other users with "don't recall the source", for example, in the source field, verified through OTRS. And they no longer have the stupid "_by_David_Shankbone" in the title.
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QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 7:27pm)
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 16th April 2009, 7:01am)
QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 3:27am)
Hahaaha. I just don't see how Shankbone can try to push that stupid blog off as anything but a joke. It's so funny in how completely ridiculous it is. The topics, his writing style, his complete lack of integrity. It's awesome. It's like the Fox News of internet shit no one cares about.
But Shanky can get a job a Fox News...doesn't he already know someone who works there (as per an older blog plop)? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
Ha! Ya, that might hinder his chances of getting hired there. I'd forgotten about that, actually. He criticized Fox in that one, right? Haha, oh... how hypocritical.
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:25pm)
QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:01pm)
I looked but were unable to find any of those particular images that Mr Shankbone is so associated with (gynaecology detailed pictures of male genitalia) on Wikipedia - and here - anywhere on his blog. Why is this? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
He got jimbo to delete them, presumably connected to some posts on his blog about wanting to advance his career in the real world. Perhaps he doesn't want to seem like a type people wouldn't want to employ.
Some of them have been reuploaded by other users with "don't recall the source", for example, in the source field, verified through OTRS. And they no longer have the stupid "_by_David_Shankbone" in the title.
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QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 16th April 2009, 11:08pm)
QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 7:27pm)
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 16th April 2009, 7:01am)
QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 16th April 2009, 3:27am)
Hahaaha. I just don't see how Shankbone can try to push that stupid blog off as anything but a joke. It's so funny in how completely ridiculous it is. The topics, his writing style, his complete lack of integrity. It's awesome. It's like the Fox News of internet shit no one cares about.
But Shanky can get a job a Fox News...doesn't he already know someone who works there (as per an older blog plop)? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
Ha! Ya, that might hinder his chances of getting hired there. I'd forgotten about that, actually. He criticized Fox in that one, right? Haha, oh... how hypocritical.
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:25pm)
QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Thu 16th April 2009, 12:01pm)
I looked but were unable to find any of those particular images that Mr Shankbone is so associated with (gynaecology detailed pictures of male genitalia) on Wikipedia - and here - anywhere on his blog. Why is this? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)
He got jimbo to delete them, presumably connected to some posts on his blog about wanting to advance his career in the real world. Perhaps he doesn't want to seem like a type people wouldn't want to employ.
Some of them have been reuploaded by other users with "don't recall the source", for example, in the source field, verified through OTRS. And they no longer have the stupid "_by_David_Shankbone" in the title.
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So now David has resorted to googlebombing his Kohs article up the Google rankings by tagging the blog entry with Greg's place of employment, his position there, etc, etc. How utterly vindictive and how absolutely juvenile. He's like a tweenager indulging in a MySpace tiff.
Seriously, David - I know you're reading this. Please do us all a favour and grow up. You're a big child!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)
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QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 17th April 2009, 1:03am)
So now David has resorted to googlebombing his Kohs article up the Google rankings by tagging the blog entry with Greg's place of employment, his position there, etc, etc. How utterly vindictive and how absolutely juvenile. He's like a tweenager indulging in a MySpace tiff.
Seriously, David - I know you're reading this. Please do us all a favour and grow up. You're a big child!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)
Why is this man not banned from all Wikimedia sites? His off-wiki and on-wiki behavior is deplorable and if he were anyone else, he would have been banned a long time ago.
For goodness sakes, Moulton was banned for less! (Sorry to drag you into this, Moulton).
Why is this man not banned from all Wikimedia sites? His off-wiki and on-wiki behavior is deplorable and if he were anyone else, he would have been banned a long time ago.
For goodness sakes, Moulton was banned for less! (Sorry to drag you into this, Moulton).
When Mr. Paschal Lamb first showed up here on W-R, I wrote this...
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 28th January 2008, 12:55pm)
Picking out one bad actor to be the poster child for all bad actors is convenient but unfair, because it scapegoats the poster child who gets the lion's share of the negative attention.
Doubleplus, banishing the designated scapegoat to the desert doesn't fix the generic problem. It just votes the worst bad actor du jour off the island, thereby creating an attention vacuum for the next scapegoat du jour.
Why is this man not banned from all Wikimedia sites? His off-wiki and on-wiki behavior is deplorable and if he were anyone else, he would have been banned a long time ago.
For goodness sakes, Moulton was banned for less! (Sorry to drag you into this, Moulton).
When Mr. Paschal Lamb first showed up here on W-R, I wrote this...
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 28th January 2008, 12:55pm)
Picking out one bad actor to be the poster child for all bad actors is convenient but unfair, because it scapegoats the poster child who gets the lion's share of the negative attention.
Doubleplus, banishing the designated scapegoat to the desert doesn't fix the generic problem. It just votes the worst bad actor du jour off the island, thereby creating an attention vacuum for the next scapegoat du jour.
Exile may not solve the problem, but as Shankbone is a prominent Wikipedian who wraps his reputation as a photographer and journalist around WikiNews and Wikipedia, you would think that the English Wikipedia community, WikiNews, and the Foundation would denounce him and distance themselves away from Shankbone.
I'm just shocked that there is so little outrage over his libelous statements against Greg and The Fiery Angel. It's maddening and heartbreaking that he continues to do this and hurt people. Even worse, no one except us is standing up and admonishing him.
I'm not naive. I know people like Shankbone are out there. The lack of admonishment of his actions depresses and angers me more.
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 17th April 2009, 12:46am)
I'm not naive. I know people like Shankbone are out there. The lack of admonishment of his actions depresses and angers me more.
For me, sometimes it helps to remember that deep down, in their heart of hearts, as they walk the long, winding road of life, watching the sun rise and set day by day, hearing the laughter of children, and feeling the sand beneath their feet on some faraway beach, each and every one of the people who contribute to Wikipedia is full of pure, malicious evil.
I'm not sure why, but I just feel better knowing that.
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QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 17th April 2009, 5:03am)
So now David has resorted to googlebombing his Kohs article up the Google rankings by tagging the blog entry with Greg's place of employment, his position there, etc, etc. How utterly vindictive and how absolutely juvenile. He's like a tweenager indulging in a MySpace tiff.
Seriously, David - I know you're reading this. Please do us all a favour and grow up. You're a big child!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)
Who do we notifiy at the Foundation to tell them that they need to remove Shankbone's blog from their blog distro list?
Perhaps CharlotteWebb and Acalamari could please explain this.
QUOTE
David, I don't know how other to say this but if anybody has actually suggested we would be better off if you left us, they are a fucking idiot. Three thousand free photos. Wow. Just wow. Please don't quit. — CharlotteWebb 15:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC) I agree with CharlotteWebb, too. Your work here has been excellent, and I still remember those great images you got for the Daniel Rodriguez article. 3,000 free images from a single contributor...that's amazing. Acalamari 21:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Why do people tolerate him? Are the photos and the Wikinews stuff worth all this abuse?
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 17th April 2009, 12:39am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 17th April 2009, 5:03am)
So now David has resorted to googlebombing his Kohs article up the Google rankings by tagging the blog entry with Greg's place of employment, his position there, etc, etc. How utterly vindictive and how absolutely juvenile. He's like a tweenager indulging in a MySpace tiff.
Seriously, David - I know you're reading this. Please do us all a favour and grow up. You're a big child!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)
Who do we notifiy at the Foundation to tell them that they need to remove Shankbone's blog from their blog distro list?
I've already discussed the matter over email with Jimmy tonight. Let's see if anything happens.
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 17th April 2009, 8:39am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 17th April 2009, 5:03am)
So now David has resorted to googlebombing his Kohs article up the Google rankings by tagging the blog entry with Greg's place of employment, his position there, etc, etc. How utterly vindictive and how absolutely juvenile. He's like a tweenager indulging in a MySpace tiff.
Seriously, David - I know you're reading this. Please do us all a favour and grow up. You're a big child!! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif)
Who do we notifiy at the Foundation to tell them that they need to remove Shankbone's blog from their blog distro list?
I thought they did? Or was that just for Wikipedia? Jimbo said he wanted it removed.
Why is this man not banned from all Wikimedia sites? His off-wiki and on-wiki behavior is deplorable and if he were anyone else, he would have been banned a long time ago.
For goodness sakes, Moulton was banned for less! (Sorry to drag you into this, Moulton).
When Mr. Paschal Lamb first showed up here on W-R, I wrote this...
QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 28th January 2008, 12:55pm)
Picking out one bad actor to be the poster child for all bad actors is convenient but unfair, because it scapegoats the poster child who gets the lion's share of the negative attention.
Doubleplus, banishing the designated scapegoat to the desert doesn't fix the generic problem. It just votes the worst bad actor du jour off the island, thereby creating an attention vacuum for the next scapegoat du jour.
Exile may not solve the problem, but as Shankbone is a prominent Wikipedian who wraps his reputation as a photographer and journalist around WikiNews and Wikipedia, you would think that the English Wikipedia community, WikiNews, and the Foundation would denounce him and distance themselves away from Shankbone.
I'm just shocked that there is so little outrage over his libelous statements against Greg and The Fiery Angel. It's maddening and heartbreaking that he continues to do this and hurt people. Even worse, no one except us is standing up and admonishing him.
I'm not naive. I know people like Shankbone are out there. The lack of admonishment of his actions depresses and angers me more.
The problem is that Shankbone has no empathy for his victims and no remorse. Or, as Gomi puts it, he exhibits traits of narcissistic sociopathy.
For such individuals, admonishment and other traditional forms of shaming and/or guilt tripping are ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. Such unbecoming tactics tend to displace any fragile feelings of remorse — the crucial emotional state upon which a constructive change of behavior might otherwise have emerged, going forward.
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 17th April 2009, 1:46am)
Exile may not solve the problem, but as Shankbone is a prominent Wikipedian who wraps his reputation as a photographer and journalist around WikiNews and Wikipedia, you would think that the English Wikipedia community, WikiNews, and the Foundation would denounce him and distance themselves away from Shankbone.
I'm just shocked that there is so little outrage over his libelous statements against Greg and The Fiery Angel. It's maddening and heartbreaking that he continues to do this and hurt people. Even worse, no one except us is standing up and admonishing him.
I'm not naive. I know people like Shankbone are out there. The lack of admonishment of his actions depresses and angers me more.
"Prominent"? "Reputation as a photographer and journalist"? Who are we talking about? He's just, by his own admission, a failed would-be lawyer with serious emotional issues who sticks free photos online and gets invited on junkets because he gives away interviews to Wikinews.
Has Mr. Miller (I am not using his idiotic pseudonym anymore) ever been paid for his work? Any shmuck can click snapshots and put them online -- that doesn't make you a professional photographer. And which professional media sources paid for his articles? Outside of Wikinews and his increasingly deranged blog, I am unaware of his work being published anywhere.
For such individuals, admonishment and other traditional forms of shaming and/or guilt tripping are ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. Such unbecoming tactics tend to displace any fragile feelings of remorse — the crucial emotional state upon which a constructive change of behavior might otherwise have emerged, going forward.
Do you have any constructive suggestions? I don't believe anyone here seriously believes there's a way to get Shankers to change his behavior, unless it's for the worse. The issue we're dealing with here is that Wikipedia encourages him, quite openly and directly, by including him on their stupid-ass "Planet Wikimedia" group blog site, among other things. (Yeah, some "planet"! Almost makes you wish Global Warming would get going a little faster.)
I will at least say that 3,000 uploaded photos is an impressive number of uploaded photos. Not technically difficult with today's technology, but still... awfully time-consuming, and even in New York City it must have been hard to find some of those things. The question is, can he legally demand that all of those photos be deleted if he gets blocked, or banned... or even dropped from their group blog? Because you know he'll try, there's no question of that. I have to believe that's what's holding them back - it certainly can't be his behavior, that's for sure.
Tell me what puzzles or perplexes you, and we can define a research project around it.
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 17th April 2009, 11:56am)
QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 17th April 2009, 9:09am)
For such individuals, admonishment and other traditional forms of shaming and/or guilt tripping are ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. Such unbecoming tactics tend to displace any fragile feelings of remorse — the crucial emotional state upon which a constructive change of behavior might otherwise have emerged, going forward.
Do you have any constructive suggestions?
Yes.
But Cognitive Behavioral Therapy requires protracted dialogue, which is not supported here.
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 17th April 2009, 11:56am)
I don't believe anyone here seriously believes there's a way to get Shankers to change his behavior, unless it's for the worse.
There is a way for him to change his behavior, but not a way for anyone here to coerce or manipulate such a change by means of rebuke.
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 17th April 2009, 9:17am)
Perhaps CharlotteWebb and Acalamari could please explain this.
Heh. People criticize me for a lot of things, but of these "focusing too much on people's good sides" is among the rarest.
I've never had the pleasure (or displeasure) of directly interacting with David, I've only noticed photos on a conspicuously great many of the biographical articles I've read and edited. I sure don't read his blog, and I'm not going to complain if somebody declares it a BADSITE if that's what it mostly is.
I'm also not going to complain if some of his uploads are deleted if plainly established to have no encyclopedic use. I've heard a few of them are, well, gross but I do know most of the ones I've seen are an unambiguous asset to the project ([1][2][3], etc.) without which we'd be stuck (in most cases) with no image, "fair use" images, or images dubiously uploaded as "free" by a single-purpose account. Sure, find the bad ones (such as this one which clearly violates BLP) and nominate them for deletion but try not personalize the issue, resort to name-calling, etc.
Content over conduct, matter over mind, deeds over words, however you want to look at it. You have to weigh the pros and cons of everything, and I stand by my previous statement that banning him (or intentionally pissing him off) would do the project more harm than good.
As a wholly practical matter consider that prolific photographers are the last people we'd want to have issuing take-down notices in the event of a license change. At least for article text one can re-write completely from scratch and reach a similar level of quality, much more easily than one can obtain a free picture of a specific person.
Sure people take pictures of people all the time but I doubt I've ever set foot close enough to photograph anyone who has an article on WP (always up in the cheap seats I guess). I know anyone can do it but most people don't, plus there's a lot to be said about having connections (and a camera handy at all times—and a willingness to do it for free, release it as "free", but allow other people to make money off it). Most people fail in at least one of these areas.
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QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 17th April 2009, 11:56am)
The question is, can he legally demand that all of those photos be deleted
Licenses are not revokable, once granted, for a particular version of an image.
He can demand whatever he wants, the important question is whether Commons is bound to delete them. The Commons community has a long standing practice of deleting images at the request of the uploader if they are not in use, but that's a courtesy granted to editors in good standing.
A considerable fraction of the images that David has contributed are the best image that the project has of the subject. In some cases by a wide margin. On the other hand, some are not, and are replaceable. Further, some of the images strike me as not particularly useful at all.
If an image is among the best we have of a topic, and is in use, I'd be arguing against its deletion.
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 17th April 2009, 3:39am)
Who do we notifiy at the Foundation to tell them that they need to remove Shankbone's blog from their blog distro list?
In January, at Miller's request, his blog was taken off the Meta blog aggregator "Planet Wikimedia" (scroll down to "Requests for Removal")
Wikipedia has its own aggregator, "Open Wiki Blog Planet" (why pick a name that can be so easily confused with "Planet Wikimedia"??). Apparently User:Nickj operates it from this Wikipedia page. The discussion page has a removal request from Kelly's Nonbovine Ruminations blog. Miller's blog is still listed (see link "87")
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Shankbone vs. Kohs, part deux
